#the wish for moral comeuppance ; some reflection of morality in events that proves righteousness

[fideidefenswhore]

The pope waiting it out hoping someone dies is kind of a tell. so many times i hear koa stans go so hard on this, that she was right, morally and legally, every step of the way.and we should shut up accept that and be ashamed she was ever put through this. but when you look at it as the pope sitting on the fence, and not immediately finding for her, it doesn't look as clear as koa stans say. And i find that a much more interesting situation and a relief from the "saint koa" line

I mean, he still treated her abysmally, but yeah, if precedent had actually been followed Henry would have certainly won this case. I almost believe how it was won was ultimately the result of geography; Charles V was simply closer.

This is one of the most infamous and generally misunderstood divorce cases, though, I learned about most of its misconceptions in JF Hadwin's papers about the case. I will post more quotes if there's interest, one example was that bona fides did not apply in England legally although it did on the continent (since often Henry declaring his eldest illegitimate is characterized as merely 'petty' and 'cruel', I think that's actually pretty important).

Also the decree against Henry sort of made Clement look like an ass (well, not exactly, because he died 1st...those that maintained and upheld it, at any rate) because it combined with the others meant that the expectation was that it would be enforced, if not by Henry's own subjects than by another Catholic kingdom. Really the closest this ever came to was Kildare Rebellion and the Pilgrimage of Grace. And although Henry was not officially excommunicated until December 1538, this too was never actually carried out (not even when Edward VI, far more Protestant than Anne Boleyn, was on the throne). Unless we view the excommunication of Elizabeth I as an extension of Henry's to some extent, this expectation was never answered until 1588, and when it finally was, it failed. Little wonder there were so many tones of providentialism and 'triumphal Protestantism' in Whig historiography of Tudor history.

#anon #for all intents and purposes henry 'won' #he was not deposed and besides the interruption of jane grey the order he had granted for the succession was carried out #i think it is a bitter pill for some to swallow; why many will insist he was not capable of having sons #despite evidence to the contrary; that all the reproductive tragedies were his 'fault'... #it's wishful thinking in the guise of historic inquiry #the wish for moral comeuppance ; some reflection of morality in events that proves righteousness #rather than chance and timing and circumstance #beyond anyone's control #(not all of them of course but the matter of having healthy; surviving children was merely a matter of the odds #edward vi died of illness; mary i was not able to conceive [we don't know if just at that time or if ever] #these are all matters of the odds; it's quite the show of partisanship to gleefully insist henry was 'at fault' for the reproductive #tragedies of his wives; the cot deaths and stillbirths and miscarriages #and that mary was not for her own) #i mean...im certainly no fan of her husband but he did have children by other wives after her? #altho it's possible there was some genetic incompatibility between them that made it impossible for mary to conceive #ie that they were equally 'at fault' in line with kell theory for henry #altho really again it does not MATTER whose medical 'fault' it was bcus ultimately whatever it was it was out of their control