#then you either haven't read AO3's TOS | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

lenievi · 2 years

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Hi! It's me again (I promise I am not an exhibitionist ^^" I just can't send you a private message for some reason).

I really haven't gotten any notification so thank you very much for the public answer (sometimes I think Tumblr has something against me personally).

Czech is a beautiful language! I don't know anything about it, but my eyes get heartshaped whenever I hear it or about it (and it was my second choice for the BA degree).

I think I have an idea why the first series are special to you. As I said, I haven't yet watched anything else to compare it with, but I have the feeling that it's in those episodes when the writers care the least about the team and the most about the plot. I mean that the episodes are Kirk centered (even Bones is only occasiononaly present and Uhura, Sulu and Scotty barely communicate with both Spock and Kirk) and I have yet to see a bad episode without a serious message. I know that this will change and I am actually a bit scared by it. Cause when I started watching I thought I was up for silly funny friendiship-tenderness-banter stories that could be pleasantly interpreted as ships. I wasn't really prepared for the complexity of characters' feelings or the tragedy of their choices. I am mesmerized by it. (But maybe I am all wrong and you have a different perception. Would you care to share? :)

Actually, now I really don't get it how like the 80% of fandom only cares for spirk having sex. I mean it is beautiful outside of TOS (and I am forever grateful for all those weeks on ao3) but that is the most boring hc you can have in TOS. You should really be in the 60's and consider gay sex taboo to make it exiting. To be honest, I haven't thought about TOS spones or mcspirk either, but I read a couple of your works last night (it was a really nice escapism night, thank you) and you've made both couples look very interesting (I am honestly looking forward to the new chapters of the spones slow burn work-in-progress). I am especially fond of your style! It's both very delicate and very TOS. It didn't feel wrong even in this missing scene from the Consciousness of the King and I have just watched the episode. I loved especially how Kirk wanted Kodos to be killed and maybe even wanted to see him watch his daughter suffer. I think I disagree with you on the subject of Kodos but it only makes it more interesting.

Huh, this got a bit out of control... I am very sorry!

Hi! I think it might be connected to the fact that you don't appear in notifications? Even when you reblog a post of mine, no one can see you liked/reblogged it in the post itself… I'm not sure if this is what shadowbanned means, but it's possible that it's something like that…

The reason why I like the first half is kinda similar to what you said. Part of the reason is that the episodes are Kirk-centric (but that doesn't really change later, the whole show is Kirk-centric, actually, he's the star after all), but the other reason is that more than the rest of the show, these episodes are actually those where you can see the life on the Enterprise, where you can see supporting characters interacting, where you get glimpses of what TOS could be if it was an ensemble show. There are also some personal reasons, mostly related to McCoy and how much I love his and Kirk's scenes in early s1, but after the writers realized that Spock and McCoy have a fun dynamic, they started to increase that, while lowering Kirk&McCoy scenes…

There are still plenty of good episodes later, with good messages (I think the pop-culture version of Trek is very subtle, almost nonexistent, actually, there are a few episodes like that, but it’s not the majority), but with the change of the showrunner (not sure if that's the correct term lol but yeah), the second season got a bit lighter and fun, and the 3rd season got slightly depressing with its themes and the empty and dying planets, and it focused primarily on the trio only. The show just evolved (even though most of the changes were caused by egos lol)

I mean, I don't watch TOS and think that spones or mckirk have sex, I don't see anything in the show as romantic (nothing reads that way), but it's fun to think what IF because that's what's shipping about to me, and the spones dynamic and the mckirk dynamic are compelling to me on different and various levels (not necessarily just romantic/sexual). So it's fun to try and figure out if I can get them somewhat together in a way I'd enjoy. I have nothing against s/k as a ship (I feel like I always need to make sure that people understand this), I just don't find anything interesting about them as a romantic ship - probably the same way as most people don't find anything interesting about tos!mckirk lol (the never actually experienced simple friendship without subordinate/superior shadows that's part of the show/films is way more compelling tbh, but it's not like you can find that in fanfics, not that I tried though lol but considering everything…) But I dislike the fanon portrayal, and I dislike how aggressive some fans are, so I just prefer not to speak about it with others (I occasionally do make a post about some aspects of their friendship I enjoy though), even if it's just friendship, because I have different opinions, and I blacklist all mentions of it. (it took me a moment to figure out why your ask didn't show for me on my computer, since Tumblr Savior hides all mentions of sp1rk (and variations) for me lol)

I'm glad you had fun with my fics and that the relationships worked for you! I see Kirk as an unreliable narrator in that Conscience of the King fic, so not everything he thinks about Kodos is necessarily true. And his fondness for Lenore made it even more difficult to know what to really do when confronted with someone who could be Kodos.

I hope that my love for spones will come back soon, so that I can work some more on that wip!

ETA: I want to also add that I don’t think there’s anything weird or boring about only watching a show because of a ship or a character and having that as the primary interest. It’s practically what I do too on a perhaps a different scale, but it’s not really different.

#replies

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phdmama · 3 years

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Is it possible to hold "Ao3 is an archive space for both writers and readers" and "Ao3 is specifically constructed to be an archive and to have a multi-valent tagging and warning system to be used as the publisher -- and reader -- so choose" at the same time? Is Ao3 really created only for writers, or is for fans, which includes both writers and readers?

Hi anon!

Okay so I'm neither one of the creators of AO3 nor some arbiter of fandom, so this is literally just one pal's opinion.

My understanding is that AO3 is constructed to be an *archive for writers* in reaction to multiple purges on different platforms in the past. To protect the work of *writers*.

Now, I'm also a reader. I read a LOT in many fandoms. That AO3 provides me SO MUCH JOY for free is one of the greatest blessings in my life, and I am not exaggerating in the slightest. And is in part why I support it financially.

So I'm looking at the post new interface right now. Required fields are Rating, Archive Warnings, Fandom, Work Title, Language (I always forget to set that one), and Work Text. Everything else is set at the author's discretion. Not to be all "I'm an old lady" but trigger warnings and content warnings are very very new.

Do I love tags and warnings? I do. Because I'm a person with a complex history (like, you know, a lot of people) and there is stuff I don't read, either because it's an actual trauma trigger for me, or more likely, it's a quick or preference. I love it when authors give me enough information to make my own choice about whether I opt into a fic - because it's ALL opt-in. But I'm not owed any of this information. And, if there's not enough information for me to make an informed decision about opting in, and I choose to opt-in anyway, my reactions to what I read are *my* responsibility.

For fics that are mistagged (I.e. tagged as No Warnings apply when there's actually significant dubcon, which I have literally read and been profoundly triggered by), there's a process for that. To do that is totally uncool, IMO. Like knowing that many people won't read MCD and having it in your fic but saying no warnings apply. That seems also to me to be against the TOS but I haven't looked into it that much.

I can always choose to look at the information the author has made available to me and think huh, there's really not enough here for me to know if I want to read this. For example, choose not to use archive warnings. I almost never read fics with that tag because I really do not like being surprised by major content - maybe the fic has it, maybe it doesn't. What matters is that the author *has given me enough information to make an informed decision* - which is, the information I want is not provided, so this fic is *not for me*. Not everything is for me. Most things aren't, in fact. What I believe is that authors have the right to present and tag their work within these discussed limitations and after that, they are making their choices about their work.

Honestly, I'm not sure I see the dichotomy in what you've said here. And again, this is my own opinion and lived experience. Absolutely, readers (because, you know, writers are FANS as well) use the tagging system and I love that. I do it. I fucking LOVE that I can filter stuff out now!! That I never ever have to read another mpreg if I don't want to (if it's tagged). But, it's not a required tag! So if I come across untagged mpreg, I can just nope out. I suppose I could even politely ask the author to please tag for mpreg. And they can say no.

Tagging is fucking hard. And you cannot account for everyone's triggers and squicks, you just can't.

As a writer, I personally want to give my readers enough information to decide if they want to read my fic. Not to bring up the hideous top/bottom discourse but - I don't generally tag for it, and I have specific and thought-out reasons for that, and even when asked, I'm probably not going to tag for it. It's not required and I don't have to. If you are someone who can *only* read a specific type of sex, for example, there are lots of fics tagged for you. Mine aren't among them. And that's okay! I want you, my reader, to make an informed choice for YOU when you read my work. Just as not all fics are for me, my fics probably aren't for everyone (well I know they're not ha ha).

As a reader, I don't actually get a say in how other writers tag their stuff. What I do get to do is read the information that the author has provided for me (and, I assume, has provided it in a thought-out way) and decide, based on that, if I want to consent to read the work. Knowing when I consent to choose to read, that I might come across things that upset me.

When people demand things to be tagged in the ways that they want, I guess it feels entitled to me. I'm not entitled to access to all fics.

And, it also demonstrates a total lack of ability to see something from someone else's perspective, which is interesting to me. I totally get that some people LOVE the surprise. Some people seek out and choose to read Choose Not To Use Archive Warnings! That's awesome that there are fics tagged for them! That's also entirely unlike my own wants/needs/desires. It doesn't make those people wrong, nor am I wrong. We're just different. It's awesome for me those fics are tagged as well, so I can NOT read them!

Okay, this is probably a much longer ramble than you wanted.

tl;dr Authors have the right to tag their works within the structure of what's required by the Archive. If I feel that I'm not given enough information to make an informed choice to opt-in to a fic, that IS the information I need. If I choose to opt-in anyway, knowing that I don't have all the information, then my responses are my responsibility to manage.

And again, this is just my opinion. I don't speak for the Archive and I don't speak for some general fandom.

#fandom meta

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