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everything-laito · 3 years

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hey,,, i've seen this controversial opinion about laito not being sexually assaulted by cordelia. . .as the only opinion of laito that matters, what are your thoughts on it? i know you've made some posts in the past about cordelia and laito's relationship, but i think that now would be a good time to i guess, remake a post or clarify your thoughts so people could follow along?? i hope you enjoy your day.

*proceeds to crack all my knuckles at once*

This isn't really my own "response" cuz oh boy I'm sick of this petty ass drama lmao. To begin, SKLDJF I'm very flattered that you hold my opinion in that high of regard! I'd say there's others that have interesting interpretations of him too though :) but again, thank you :') glad you enjoy what I have to say!

I know I've already kinda responded to this via a screenshot here, just to hold you––and others reading this––over. As much as this is a great time to talk about a how-to-analysis, I’ll still put that as a separate post eventually, but I still will go over the philosophy of truth and writings etc. But anyways, to answer your initial questions, they’re under the cut!

And no, I’m not specifically calling anyone out here. These are just issues with the fandom that I find as a whole, along with some extremists. Thus, I’m not going to be putting tags for people to easily find this post because I don’t want to be wound up in this drama––once again this is just more commentary on the fandom as a whole, which hopefully you can apply to people you find!

I have a lot of my own thoughts about Cordelia and Laito’s relationship here (just in case if people need it):

1. Goes over potential grooming of Laito, facts about Cordelia and what happened before she did stuff to Laito, and when did she rape Laito for the first time?

2. Stuff about incest and how any relationship out of a parental/child relationship is abuse even if it’s not penetrative sex, more incest stuff, and just more thoughts on their relationship

3. Neuroplasticity, trauma, Karlheinz, and isolation

4. What does sexual trauma look like? And some stuff on Laito’s facade

5. More stuff on his facade, and projection on Yui

6. My thoughts on Laito’s dark fate vampire ending + Conclusion

7. Answering some inbox stuff relating to Cordelia

Sure I realize I might be missing some stuff but that’s just my whole analysis on them. I’ll probably make some follow up posts eventually but I’m not sure when that will be.

But as for this analysis/ramble, I’ll divide it up into sections:

The issue of hypocrisy in the Dialovers fandom:

I- oh dear god. Ok, just saying, there’s a lot of people being like “oh I hate Cordelia because she was abusive” then ??? yo??? Why do you like the boys?? They’re abusive and we see more of them than Cordelia??? I just personally hate hypocrisy. However, it’s okay to hate Cordelia! It’s okay to love Cordelia! It’s okay to hate the boys and it’s okay to love the boys too. But recognizing that you don’t like one or the other just because “they’re abusive” is a fallacy at that point.

The reason why so many people hate Karlheinz/Cordelia/Beatrix/Christa/Richter (or at least start off hating them) is because they are written as the villains of the story! Karl’s the main villain, and the rest (including the diaboys and Yui) are kinda just tragically wound up in his plans. You sympathize more with the boys because you spend more time with them and watch them grow! It’s a whole “us vs them” situation. Since those people were awful to the boys/the boys hate them, you’re like “yeah they’re bad!” But the issue with the whole “us vs them” situation (as in real life) is that people tend to excuse the actions done by the “us” party.

Same thing goes with extreme Karl/Cordelia/Richter fans (I’ve never seen a hardcore Beatrix/Christa fan but they’re probably out there). Some hate the diaboys but love the people in that party. They’ve also done some shitty stuff too! Bro, even Yui has done some terrible stuff! But that’s because she was a product of the events she was thrown into––and same with everyone else.

Karl has been the mastermind of all this, and for me I don’t have any sympathy for him, mainly because we’re not shown anything to sympathize with (except that he just is tired of living but idk why he wants to create a whole new race like lmao science nerd ig, I feel that king). A lot of people like him for his looks, and I’m not saying that’s a bad thing––he’s a fictional character, objectify these characters however you want. This is more of a personal opinion of mine though. And maybe people do just sympathize with his outlook on life, that’s totally fine.

But since these characters are all attractive in their own regard, they all get the treatment of “pretty-boy” syndrome (Idek if that’s the exact name for it). Which is just the privilege pretty people get. But again, this is fictional, so it’s not necessarily important in this case. Bro I got into DL cuz of “ooga booga hot vampires” and stayed for the complex lore and characters (especially one complex character, wonder who that could be). I imagine most people got into DL because of that, or out of sheer curiosity.

Ok, I’m throwing out a lot of points but not really connecting them. Lemme give you an example: I don’t like Reiji. His character doesn’t vibe with me most of the time aside from the fact that he’s hilarious. But I just am very neutral/neutral-negative on his character. But I’m not like “oh cuz he’s mean/abusive” cuz LOL EVERYONES MEAN IN THIS GAME. Sure you can still say that, it’s just not a very strong claim. Hypocritical claims tend to be like that. Same with a lot of Yui haters. In this case, they’re more jealous that she’s there and not them, which I’ve explained a lot in this post about toxic femininity and Yui in the fandom etc. But it’s ok to just not like a character! It’s alright! I know someone who just doesn’t vibe with Subaru. She doesn’t know why, she just doesn’t vibe with him. There’s no need to defend it either. But the use of hypocrisy is my main issue, and I’ll get to that in the next section.

(There’s a really good post explaining this too but I cannot find it for the life of me. I think it was made by @/abottleofkarlheinz or @/the-madame21)

How opinions of fictional universes left unchecked can effect real life:

I’ve said this a little bit in that Dialover PSA post I’ve made about Yui that I linked a couple paragraphs ago. But the reasons why people say they hate Yui is concerning. If you don’t like Yui, that’s totally fine! Again you don’t need reasons to hate on a character or defend it. But if you do choose to defend those characters, make sure what you’re saying isn’t out of some other place in your heart. Let me explain.

In that “Yui PSA” post I made, I say how your attitudes in being critical of a fictional universe usually does reflect on who you are as a person, at least when you’re making certain claims. In that Yui post, I say that the hatred on Yui is a result of the “other girl” mentality. On top of that, it erases her experience as a survivor. Yes, this is a fictional character, but bringing that into real life can have some dire consequences if you don’t differentiate them. If you have the same attitude of Yui with other survivors if the “abuser is hot” then thaaaaaat’s so fucked up.

For example, there’s people who have crushes on real life serial killers! That- that’s absolutely disgusting! Those real people killed living people and effected so many lives and families. Dude I have fictional crushes on fictional serial killers, and that’s different, because it is a removed universe. It’s why I can still call myself a lesbian but still have crushes on fictional male characters, for a further example (and vice versa! I have straight friends who crush on fictional characters of their same gender! But that doesn’t make them any less straight. And no, I’m not erasing bi people here either, just clarifying in case if you needed that).

Not being able to differentiate your opinions of a fictional universe can get very toxic. Like I love Laito, but I’m not like “omg I wish he was real so he could do that stuff to me uwu” like no!!! UH!!! I wouldn’t want to date anyone like him in real life! That’s literal abuse! And if Laito was here in real life it’s not a controlled environment, he’d literally be able to do anything with you, etc. That’s what makes a fantasy, a fantasy. They’re controlled.

Also vice versa, some people get really triggered by Dialovers, specifically Laito’s route. A lot of non-consensual acts that he does have been experienced by people in real life in any extent, myself included. For me, it’s a personal escape from that, because it is an environment where I am prepared for those events and can control my exposure to it. For some, they are reminded of the reality they had to experience. Fictional universes are inspired by real life, no matter what way you look at it. Real life people are making it, after all.

I feel like I’m going in so many circles, but trust me, I’m getting to the point.

I- I can’t explain this enough but it is most definitely implied that Cordelia had raped and sexually abused Laito. If it was explicit, DL would be an 18+ game, but they cannot do that in Japan. I’m not going to like defend this point because so many people (myself included) have defended this point. It’s implications carry over into Laito’s character and why he’s like this. He’s a textbook sexual abuse survivor. I just,,,, cannot explain this enough. Same thing with overwriting the abuse of Yui. They get jealous of Yui. Sure I’d say a good chunk of people have ravishment fantasies here. At least the 18+ people in the fandom who are into that stuff. But oh my dear god, ravishment fantasies are super super dangerous to enact in real life. It’s possible to do them, but it would take years of building up to that point in kink. That’s a whole other discussion though and I’m not incredibly comfortable talking about it knowing that minors read my blog (I’ll also have to say here: no minors in kink--its alright to educate yourself but pleaaaaaaaaaase don’t enact on any of those activities until you are of age, and even so that still can be dangerous right as you turn 18).

But anyways, saying that Yui should enjoy this because she’s experienced the ravishment fantasy you’ve dreamed of? Oh fucking hell, if you leave that opinion and mentality unchecked and it goes into real life, that’s incredibly awful. Abuse apologists are absolutely terrible people, almost as much as the abusers themselves.

If you twist the narrative that Laito loves Cordelia or Yui loves the boys at the end of the first game, that’s still––ughhhhhhhh. Especially when it’s so obvious that Laito has so many mental issues with Cordelia. His whole monologue and breakdown at the end of Dark Fate definitely tells us that he has had such an issue with Cordelia. And MB+ Laito is still Laito. As for Yui, dude she literally goes through stockholm syndrome in the first game like it is so goddamn apparent idek how to explain this at this point.

Ok dear god lmao wow, uh I think that’s answering the first couple of questions?

The philosophy of truth:

“Truth” has been an incredibly debated topic in philosophy for years. Truth is more of a subjective item rather than objective. Sure you can have personal objective truths, but they may not be the same truths for others. For example, a tomato is red. However, that tomato is red to me, because I am not color blind. A red-green color blind person may see the tomato as being brown or more muted in color. That’s their truth. They can’t really imagine what red is (ok depending on severity of their color blindness), considering they have not experienced the color red in the same way people who don’t have color blindness do. God uh, here’s a whole ass essay about truth, I’m cherry picking some of the things in there that are relevant to this.

Basically what I’m saying is, truth is very subjective. However, there are philosophers arguing a more objective truth. But that’s a whole other discussion. Also, this isn’t to support any political opinion, but I can use that as an example. Let’s go for well... The death penalty. I’m in America, we have the death penalty in some states. Yes, this is a very controversial topic, and no I’m not arguing the ethics of it here. Just hear me out.

If you live in Europe for example (except in Belarus and Russia––ok when I looked it up they consider Russia in Europe and technically it is but also there’s the whole chunk that is not- lmao even the truth of geography can be subjective), you might be like “yeah what the fuck are Americans doing?” (a common sentiment that I also share lmao). But yeah, what the fuck are we doing? Why is the death penalty still in existence? Yes, there’s statistics that prove that it doesn’t deter crime, but even crime rates is caused by a lot of different things too. Even statistics aren’t always accurate, because of many different factors. They’re not objective either, although good statisticians try their best to get good results and not skew the data. (please try to see where your data is coming from and who it is sponsored by––it matters a TON)

I’d say the closest thing we have as an objective truth to argue the death penalty or not is money. Money, although the concept is subjective, is a very objective currency. It’s why artists hate “exposure” compared to “money” as sole currency. The death penalty is very expensive, and not even used that often.

So, although money is currency made by us, and is technically 75% linen and 25% cotton (in America at least) with some funky dudes n numbers printed on it, it doesn’t sound that special. However, it would be considered as a baseline of some type of “objective truth” in ~society~ because people are typically on the same page of what money’s worth. Even so, this baseline of truth is still subjective! If Bill Gates accidentally has a $20 bill fall out of his pocket, that’s nothing to him! But if someone who’s working very hard to make ends meet loses that same amount of money, it could deal a lot of financial damage to that person.

Ok, hopefully you guys kind of get my drift. There are a lot of theories of truth, I’m just explaining one (honestly I forget the name of this theory) because it is the closest to the types of truth we are dealing with. And in this case, it’s called “canon.”

What the fuck is analysis:

The concept of “canon” is the objective truth that we have when analyzing universes. They’re our bread and butter of interpretation and extrapolation. The art of analysis clings to this notion of an objective truth. It needs a baseline. I’m going off of Aristotle’s rhetorical triangle, because that type of analysis I have the most experience with.

This is called rhetorical analysis. Rhetoric is the use of words in a persuasive fashion, and the analysis part is a breakdown of how words are used in order to achieve persuasiveness. I don’t typically use a lot of explicit rhetorical analysis in my personal writings, but I guess a version of it. Which typically has to deal with intention and execution. A lot of analysis on language has to do with this. Language is incredibly subjective. Certain words carry individual meanings to people. I have gone over the difference between real and lexical definitions before, and I’ll do it again.

I’ll just copy and paste what I’ve said before here from this analysis:

To put it simply, lexical definitions are the definitions you find in the dictionary. This is an “official” and “agreed upon” definition. Real definitions (quite a misleading name in my opinion) is the definition that’s more kind of “felt” in a way and how you internally interpret the word in context (these can be through individuals or any niche group). What I mean by this is that when you say a word (for example) to convey a feeling, you usually won’t know the dictionary definition off the top of your head. You say that something’s “savage” for example when you want to describe something violent or gruesomely awesome (it depends if it’s in a slang context or not) but there’s many lexical definitions (and outdated lexical definitions) of the term. But the first definition that usually comes up is “adj (of an animal or force of nature) fierce, violent, and uncontrolled.”

But people typically don’t think of the lexical definition when they learn what a word means; they usually learn the context of it and apply it as such. And that’s what a “real” definition is. Laito has a differing definition of what affection and love is, and that’s his own meaning and what it means to him.

I’ll even add another example to that too. The word “cunt” in english refers to a vagina. That’s just it. It’s lexically synonymous with “vagina,” “pussy,” etc. However, “cunt” has a subjective meaning to it. This is where “real” definitions also come into play. Many people view the word as vulgar and dirty. And that’s cuz we live in a ~society~ lmao. Our use of language has shaped what this word means in a context outside of the dictionary. I’ll do you one more. The Japanese word マンコ (manko) is also vulgar slang that’s kind of like our word “cunt/pussy.” Sometimes I say “cunt” for jokes, but I don’t use it that often to begin with since it’s just a very strong word to most (albeit it’s not that strong of a word for me). However, マンコ is a strong word to many Japanese people, but if I hear it even though I’ve been learning Japanese, it doesn’t have that same effect as hearing “cunt” for me is (which still, idc if I really hear it depending on context) because I haven’t been shaped in a culture that uses Japanese.

Even so, tone, intention, and context is HUGE in this. If someone called me a “useless fucking cunt” when they’re angry at me, I’d be close to crying. If someone told that to me as a joke, I’d be like “lol yeah you right, bitchass” and if someone said that in a consensual sexual context, it would certainly tickle my masochistic heart.

DSLKFJ also sorry if you don’t like hearing that word, I just had to utilize a strong example for this. But anyways, now let’s change the lens to Dialovers.

No, it never explicitly says that Cordelia rapes Laito. It doesn’t. However, there’s this WACKY thing called being able to infer, reading between the lines, and identifying implications. Those are kind of all the same things. However, indirect exposition is used a lot in effective creative writing. The utilization of this type of exposition is more preferred when writing a story, because direct exposition is kind of referred to as “info-dumping” when used excessively. Forgive my jargon: this is just showing vs telling as we’re taught in every writing class. I’m personally very bad at it, which is why I stick to writing these, and stick to reading creative fiction. (NOT SAYING IF YOU’RE NOT GOOD AT THIS TO NOT CONTINUE TO PRACTICE CREATIVE FICTION, I JUST DONT HAVE THE CURRENT MOTIVATION TO GET GOOD AT IT)

Dialovers uses a LOOOOOT of showing. And even so, its “showing” ability is very minimal considering the Japanese language can be vague on its own, it’s medium (visual novel) does not show a lot of things explicitly most of the time (and even when it is shown it doesn’t convey a lot). There’s several CGs of Laito and Yui where it doesn’t show the amount of pain or the dire situation Yui’s in, compared to what she’s saying she’s going through.

When I made my whole breakdown on Laito’s HDB route from Yui’s perspective, I got several comments about how they didn’t realize how bad his route really was. That’s either because people might not have experience with verbal abuse themselves, can’t exactly see Yui’s body language except her head (and even so, her expressions are limited), or don’t know a lot of gaslighting/verbal abuse techniques/have done research into it. Honestly verbal abuse is kind of hard to realize, so I’m not calling anyone dumb here. Despite me knowing a lot of the signs, I didn’t know I went through it––and even so I’ve denied it. And that’s what is so effective about this game though! Especially Laito’s route! Because you’re also sucked in with limited knowledge because you’re seeing this through Yui’s perspective, and on top of that it’s isolating. You can only make so many choices, and I feel like Dialovers is perfect as a visual novel. You get caught up with a lot of shock value things that Laito says, which serves as a perfect distraction for your first time through. But anyways, I’m getting off track.

For example, many people found his Maniac 07 chapter to be very confusing. I broke that one down here as well, and even so I was confused at first (also I was like 14/15, dear god). It tells you SO little, but you know that Laito’s incredibly upset at Richter for some reason, and even so, Yui comments on it a little too. Laito is shown to still hate Richter in DF, but he talks about it a tad more.

Here’s a further example from my writings in that first part of the Cordelia/Laito analysis series but I have bolded the terms I use to convey this rhetoric:

There hasn’t been any flashbacks that specifically show us the first time that happened. However, I believe that there was a flashback in HDB that shows one of the first times. Here’s a scene from Laito’s Dark Epilogue:

Cordelia: ー Laito…Laito… Laito: …Hm? Is something the matter? Cordelia: I have a favor to ask. It just isn’t enough. You can do it, right Laito? Laito: You really are something…So that’s why you came to me again? Cordelia: Fufufu…That’s right, Laito. Come on, quickly… Laito: …Guess it can’t be helped. I’ll love you plenty. Cordelia: Aah…My cute Laito~ I love you. I really do. Laito: I can do it…right? Cordelia: Of course, Laito. Now, quickly…

First of all, ew. Second of all, Laito’s diction implies that this was maybe the second or third time this occurred. He asks a question, and ends it with “again.” We know by this that it is not the first time, but the question also means that Laito might not have expected to occur again. His tone also implies some surprise to it, at least in my ears. His other question, “I can do it, right?” screams hesitance to me. If this scene took place down the line, or after many times he did this with Cordelia, I don’t believe he’d be some level of surprised or hesitance.

That’s what rhetorical analysis is. You take the contextual meaning of the words, the tone they use, and extrapolate what they imply. On top of this, we know that the term “love” here is sexual, implying that they did something sexual. We are not given the details of this, but considering we know that Laito uses “love” before he rapes Yui in the game, we can infer that’s what happened (or something similar) to himself with Cordelia, considering he projects on Yui quite a bit.

I was going to go over what is good/bad analysis, but I think I’ve implied it anyways here. Utilizing separate information from different sources of canon in order to make sense of something is good analysis. That’s our objective truth: canon. I’m not saying I’m the best at analysis, but I am fairly confident in it. It’s how I’m able to attempt to answer some of your “how would Laito react” questions without it being specifically hinted in the game. You cannot cherry pick specific sentences and go off of that alone for analysis. It’s context. It’s reading tone. It’s knowing the characters attitudes towards things, how they speak, etc. There’s a lot going into analysis in general. I know I didn’t elaborate on Aristotle’s rhetorical triangle right now, but that’s for another date I suppose.

Oh dear god I hope I didn’t lose you guys, I know this is a lot of information, but if you have any questions/comments/clarifications, as always, please let me know!

Hope you enjoyed! -Corn

#analysis #ask corn

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echogekkos-writes · 3 years

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idk if ur doing any more of the hcs but fi ghirhim swap, u can inclued zelda being the hylain champion and link having the sealing powers if u want or ur take on a fix-it all au? what would u change and what would u keep?

I am still doing more! And I’d be happy to share some more heacanons on topics! Unfortunately, while I know SS lore...it’s all seconhand information and stuff I've read on the wiki. I haven’t actually played SS and haven’t picked up the HD version yet. Maybe this is something I can revisit, but I don’t know enough about Ghirahim or Fi, both attitude and actions without either watching a full playthrough or doing it myself, to give my own headcanons on a Fi and Ghirahim swap.

A fix-it AU I can totally do though. I am going to assume you mean BoTW and AoC. I find AoC’s story to be quite good, and while time travel can sometimes be an easy crutch, I think it works in AoC’s case, so I am going to leave AoC alone. Nothing there other than a few minor things I would change. BoTW though? Totally have ideas. I have a few, some revolving around pre-calamity, some around post. I am going to go with pre-calamity for this answer!

BoTW Fix It All AU. (Not going to be fix it all as yeah….some bad stuff still happens)

Mipha is allowed to finish what she said. That she thinks about Link. There are two ways she could have finished her sentence. “About those I love.” or “About Link.”. I feel it was the latter, as she was quite embarrassed to say it. This causes Zelda to come to terms with her growing attraction to Link and having to face the music. She loves Link. (platonically or romantically, whatever boats your float). It’s an epiphany, a sudden realization that shakes her all the way to her soul. This unlocks her powers.

With her powers unlocked, The Calamity is hastened. It can’t wait around anymore, it can’t wait for the Champions to enter their Divine Beasts. It has sensed Hylia’s powers manifesting and must act NOW. It seizes the Divine beasts immediately and begins to use them to wreak havoc. Though messy and sluggish, it tries to use the Blights to control the Beasts to everyone’s location.

The Champions all feel their Divine Beasts being seized. There is no subtlety on Ganon’s part. To them, it feels like a part of their soul has been ripped from them. It leaves them weakened and in pain. But they know what just happened. So the party is left with a choice, take back the Divine Beasts, or use their combined prowess to try to defeat Ganon. After much deliberation, the latter is chosen. They just don’t know what they are up against, what awaits them inside. Between that and their knowledge on the capabilities of their Beasts....without help, they know can’t do it on their own.

It’s not an easy fight to Ganon. Guardians assail them at every turn. But they push on, through injury and fatigue. For they are racing against time. Sure, Hyrule is burning down all around them, but if the Divine Beasts make it to them? All hope would be lost.

They barely make it in time. The fight is hard. Ganon re-summons his Blights, much in the same way the fight happens without freeing the Beasts. Each Champion takes on a different blight than the one sent to kill them. Revali fights Waterblight. Daruk fights Thunderblight. Mipha fights Fireblight. Urbosa takes on Windblight. All this while Link is trying his best to defeat Ganon. After the blights are defeated and Ganon is slain, Dark Beast Ganon is formed. And with their combined might supporting Link and Zelda, Ganon is sealed away.

Castle Town is destroyed. Barely anyone is able to escape. Rhoam is slain, alongside 80% of the population. The Hylian Army put up a valiant fight, but in the end, did everything they could just to buy time for folks to escape. Other regions suffered as well with the control of the Divine Beasts and Guardians.

Parts of the Domain are destroyed from Ruta’s rampage to Central Hyrule. Same with Goron City. In Rito Village, many homes are blown away, but the primary structure of rock where the village perched remains intact. Gerudo town suffers the least damage but is cut off from the rest of Hyrule for months, as the Gerudo Canyon suffers a major rockslide from Nabooris rampage.

The recovery effort is long and arduous, but they all manage to do so, with each race lending a hand where they can.

Yes, it ends in eventual Miphlink, cause god damn it, I am forever stuck Miphlink Hell.

#thanks for the asks #sorry I wasn't able to answer the first one #but I hope you like my answer to the second!

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musashi · 3 years

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are there any stories/facts about your job/coworkers you can comfortably share? maybe something cool they did/you did with them recently? anyone that stands out in particular among them, without getting too specific for. clear reasons?

what's cheeseburger up to atm? any notable stories or anything about him recently, or has he been just living his best life as usual?

which of the skyloft NPCs do you particularly like? for arguments sake, this is excluding the more story relevant ones, so no groose + his gang, no zelda obviously, etc.

as an opposite to that, talk about groose! i've always loved him as a character, and the bits you've said about him and his relationship with link and zelda is always great! also, any notable kin memories you have of groose? especially things that occured after he left skyloft, or even after the demise fight. what did he get up to after the credits rolled?

fun stories about your loftwing? were there any traits you and him shared notably? or any that were more opposite?

what are some of your favorite things about your favorite iterations of zelda? what i mean by that is like... what do you like best about tetra/wind waker zelda? what about skyward zelda? botw zelda? they're similar but all unique people, so what endears you the most about each of them?

i know this is a lot, so don't feel like you have to answer in any specific time frame. take as long as is comfortable, and i hope this helps!! ~🍄

these are so many!!! thank you for being so generous!!!

most of the ppl i work w are. kinda rude to me all the time so i mostly just drown them out so i don’t go insane. but there is this one kid who is just, like, a ray of sunshine every time he walks into a room. and he works so hard and he cares about his work and i feel like he’s the only bitch who gets me. we vibe over zelda and will just get into debates about the lore on the clock and i look forward to seeing him a lot.

what's cheeseburger up to atm? any notable stories or anything about him recently, or has he been just living his best life as usual?

he’s just doin he. he sleeps a lot. sometimes in boxes. sometimes under beds. sometimes directly on top of me.

a few weeks back i went to the ER for what i figured out was a kidney stone and while i was literally on my bed writhing in pain trying to hold out until my grandparents got there cheeseburger just like, jumped up on top of me and immediately starting pissing on me, as if to say haha, check this out. i can urinate better than you.

which of the skyloft NPCs do you particularly like? for arguments sake, this is excluding the more story relevant ones, so no groose + his gang, no zelda obviously, etc.

i love all of them so much oh no... everyone i love i love for kinnie reasons like i am tempted to say jakamar cause even though he’s kind of a sleazy dude he, as previously mentioned, smuggled me woodscraps to whittle fsdgjkfsgh

but parrow gives good hugs. and henya always has snacks hidden somewhere. and pumm will give you soup on the house sometimes if he can tell you’re in a rough mood. and and and........ i wuv skyloft. this is all kinnie bullshit actually.

talked about him a lil bit in my last ask hehe

fun stories about your loftwing? were there any traits you and him shared notably? or any that were more opposite?

aepon & i were the kind of pair where we seemed really dissimilar on the surface but i think if anyone actually knew us they’d be able to discern pretty quickly that we were 100% twinning. like at face value i was a pretty calm and quiet person who was just, like. spacey and sleepy and vibing while things happened around me, and aepon was this absolute speed demon who had the biggest, loudest presence any time he entered a space. ppl in skyloft called him my red terror.

but the thing about my bird is that he was stubborn to a fault, and recklessly brave, and he just didn’t. stop. and he loved fiercely, the second i was awake in the morning i’d hear him circling overhead and shrieking his happy little shriek, he’d fill my head with all his thoughts of hanging out with me while i was trying to concentrate on work. all those things, we had in common, but i wouldn’t have been able to tell you that. someone like zelda probably would have.

i think the best representation of it is at the beginning of everything when the tornado took zelda, the both of us just. dove right in. nothing else mattered, no conflict existed within either of us, i didn’t have to steer him in or send my intentions into our shared headspace, he just turned into an arrow flying straight into danger, and i went with him and we were one living being. like that’s our core. we are very opposite, until shit gets real, and then we are this beautiful unity tearing through the clouds.

HOW DO I COUNT THE WAYS I LOVE ZELDA AHHHHH

oot!zelda’s determination to defy fate... the way she refuses, from the start, to give in to darkness even though she’s only a little girl. the way she sees my commoner ass just waltz up into her private garden after breaking into her house still dressed in my stupid forest clothes and shes like. oh fuck yeah, wanna help me overthrow the gerudo king? and we’re, can’t stress this enough, ten. she’s so confident like she never worries about being powerless or out of her element, she never for a second believes this isn’t something she can fight. and when everything goes to shit she just keeps fighting!!! and still has the time to remind me that i can keep fighting too!!! literally where did she get that personality i love her so much!!!!

tetra’s fucking... simmering fire. her perfect balance between action and thought. like you can tell she’s pissed off and wants to start throwing punches but she always has the self-control to assess if it’s the thing to do in the moment. I CAN’T DO THAT!!! i’m pissed off i want to swords!!!! that motherfucker over there is PROVOKING ME!!!!! and tetra has the same fire inside her but she’s always just, like, “shut the fuck up, link. put your sword away. we need to get the jump on him.” and im like, AHHHHHHH because she’s always right. literally always. i don’t know how she does this but i think about it constantly. i love her level head and her scheming heart and her choice to carve her own destiny. i like how she finds out she’s a legendary princess from an age long past with sacred blood and shes just like ‘that’s cool but actually i’m tetra and i like to cuss and steal.’ and just does that forever. it resonates with me especially because even though the gods acknowledged me as the hero of winds i, like, wasn’t a ‘true’ incarnation of the hero. it’s just what i decided to be with what i was given. she and i are two sides of that coin and there is something beautiful abt that i don’t have words for. in a lot of ways she was my inspiration.

skyward!zelda’s um. everything? everything. i am so in love with her. i am so in love... with her. i am finding it harder to describe her than everyone else here which is so silly because she’s easily the person i was closest with. she’s just, like, made of fire and love? of passion. everything she is stems from what she loves--she loves old legends, and cliche romance stories, and stargazing, and going on adventures. zelda romanticizes everything in her life, she’ll stop mid-sentence to make you look at the sky because it struck her as particularly beautiful today, meanwhile i’m just like. thats the sky i see it every day i live here. and she’s so brave, so fierce, so resilient--there’s literally nothing that could scare her, i’m certain she got to the surface and immediately started spitting curses at blins, if ghirahim had actually found her alone she would have tried to come at him clawing and spitting. i was always so chill because all my anger was Stored in The Zelda, she’d just fight half my battles for me before i could register they were battles. idk. zelda was such an optimist who took everything in stride and believed, no matter what, that she could make it her own and make it beautiful and find something to adore within it. i might have had a quieter disposition, but she was always better at dealing with change than me. it was calming. i love her so much.

botw!zelda’s passion and inquisitive heart, oh my god, oh my god. i’m going to fucking fight everyone in the kingdom who ever made her feel like she talks too much. god it enthralls me, the way she just talks and talks and talks and LETS ME LISTEN, she lets me just SIT THERE and BASK IN IT like some kind of COLD REPTILE ON A ROCK. i literally cannot comprehend how she can fit so much knowledge about so many different things in her brain, and the way she’s ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THAT, literally just getting together with her techie friends and building whole ass machines when she was like 6 years old. shes looking at me like ‘oh this child prodigy curse my shortcomings why cant i be pulling enchanted swords when IM 12′ and im like PRINCESS YOU’RE FUCKING COOLER THAN ME LIKE CONGRATS I TOUCH A SWORD SOMETIMES AND YOU COULD LITERALLY MAKE A ROBOT TO DO THAT FOR YOU oh my god the way she doesn’t see how incredible she is makes me go insane i feel insane just thinking about it she’s the coolest fucking person i’ve ever met she’s the coolest person in hyrule the kingdom is too good for her i want her to take apart hyrule castle brick by brick and just leave a note behind that says ‘im too cool for you’ and then she gets on my ancient magic motorcycle and rides off into the sunset to some paradise far away and if i’m LUCKY she takes me with her. i love zelda

#kin ramblings #Anonymous #wendy answers

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krakenator · 5 years

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CHAPTER 1 aka “Stranger Danger”

I’m rereading The Property of Hate by @modmad and overanalyzing it to hell and back because i can’t stop thinking about the story and getting madder and madder about the PUNS I keep finding. I’m scratching the itch and trying to find All The Details. Current plan is just to go chapter by chapter, feel free to chime in with stuff I miss! There’ll be a masterpost up soon linking everything in one spot

SPOILERS are sprinkled around extremely liberally. Masterpost

Okay, so just a million things right off the bat on page fucking one

‘The Hook’ is of course a term for the beginning of a story. Grabbing one’s attention and convincing them to go off on an adventure, so to speak

Speechboxes! Everybody’s got their own distinctive ‘way of speaking’ in this story. RGB’s are rectangular, but those straight edges are offset by these really loopy, meandering, and elegant speech tails. It’s just. Such immediate characterization.

Like, even the pose. The way RGB introduces himself by crouching on her drawers like an incredibly dapper gremlin. It creates a similar contrast to his speechbubbles- prim and proper existing simultaneously with fae and kinda ridiculous

So considering we’ve got a fairly detailed picture of roses up on Hero’s wall on the comics opening page I think we can assume this is some type of Important maybe. Just off the top of my head, isn’t the rose Englands national flower? IDK how relevant that is outside of RGB being incredibly, incredibly British

Oh god damnit I just scrolled down to go to the next page and fffFFFUCKING BLUE ROSES ON THE BUTTONS okay. Blue rose symbolism! They don’t exist naturally. You won’t just find one in the wild outdoors, so they represent the impossible, the mysterious and achievable.

Seeing blue roses right off the bat = important story theme probably. Impossible dreams are my first thought. RGB’s seemingly hopeless plan to save a world everyone else has given up to be doomed. Hero’s wish to go the fuck back home please after she’s had her fill of deadly adventure. RGB and Hero are setting out to achieve the impossible, defeat Her, and save the World of Make Believe

Last point for the first page; RGB’s drool. Except it’s not drool, we later learn it’s equivalent to blood, and he bleeds emotions he’s feeling. While recruiting Hero, RGB’s prominent feelings are, unsurprisingly in hindsight, a fair load of sadness but tinged with a dose of cheer. His last Hero failed, and every single one before that, but he’s still daring to have hope, the absolute madman. What he’s actually dripping most though is what looks like curiosity- it may be mixed with a bit of anger, which I wouldn’t begrudge the guy. Angry that he has to start over, again, angry that his world is dying, angry that he’d the only one doing anything about it

Ok but imagine you woke up to find a man crouched on your bedside table smiling this super-wide “TRUST ME!! :)” smile and blood dribbling out of it and welling up between the teeth. Like, I’m laughing, but I’d be screaming

OKAY BUT FINALLY WE’RE PAST THE FIRST PAGE. We get a clear look at Hero’s drawings taped to the wall, and check it- one kinda looks like the Idea they run into a few chapters ahead. The other picture might also be showing the House of Paint? I mean, there’s a sun there so that’s off, but the clouds and steps leading up to Madras’ door look right

And now we get Hero’s speechboxes! They’re circular in contrast to RGB’s boxes, and colored orange. The balloon tails don’t loop-de-loop all over the page like RGBs but they’re not ‘standard’ either- there’s always this little jag to them closer to the text

RGB’s speechbubbles are actually one of the plainest/most conventional in the entire story

Excluding the tails of course. Those never ever take the most direct or efficient path to his face. Yeah, it adds an impression of silliness, but also speaks to the fact that RGB takes creative and weird solutions out of situations. I’ll laugh about the entire Click arc later but like really. REALLY. RGB DID ALL OF THAT

I love how Hero’s first actual words to RGB send him immediately into ?????????????. He keeps up this huge grin for most of The Hook and this is the first time his “I’m your friendly neighborhood TV nothing to see here!!” demeanor gets shaken up

the ladder hurts Hero’s feet, so why does she sleep on the top bunk? The bottom bunk doesn’t have any bedding on it so it’s not like she’s regulated to the top by any kind of sibling dibs

Weird... weird detail to be showing us modmad.....

“Are you a monster?” “the very worst one” that’s a lotta blue dripping off yer chin there, stop crying

The mom is a character for two (2) seconds and even she gets her own unique speechbox; blue, fuzzy and barely connected, which does a really great job of communicating that she’s basically still asleep without ever having to see her

‘happy boi about to bring newest kidnapping to the sky world’

That’s a Mary Poppins reference, that is. RGB exclaiming ‘spit spot!’ earlier also got be thinking of Poppins

Clouds look so fluffy out of airplane windows, I’m honestly jealous

Doors! Gotta wonder where they all lead. Gotta wonder if they’ll get more use past this outside Hero’s recovery Time

I’ve just spend like 15m trying to figure out what the symbols above the doors are and I THINK it’s alchemy? “libra sign upside down” is luckily an easily searchable term, and that symbol in particular is for gas becoming liquid

I think the door beyond that has the alchemical symbol for gold? I’m not having luck on the others, including the door they actually go through here/its sister door Hero opens after the Elastic Valley fiasco.

RGB are you pissed that you had to tell this kid your name yourself? Are you upset about manners?? She’s like 7 dude cmon have you met a 7 year old. Thinking about it, possibly not, all the confirmed Other Heroes are definitely older- they all come across to me as adults

well, actually, who even knows how old Assok is. They might be the exception

The little ‘peephole’ eye popping open when the right key is close is nice atmospheric detail, but it kinda makes me wonder if there’s a person like. Seeing out of that eye. Whether someone gets a little notification every time one of these doors is opened

It’s the World of Make Believe! Stupendous! Break-taking! Modmad is exceptional at colors and beautiful environments full of personality! Hero’s last chance to turn back is gone!

Hero only being awake for 20 minutes before becoming Instantly Tired = biggest actual mood, my god. Me too sweetie

Except I can’t blame trees. And a sort of magical jet-lag effect. Yo, are sleeping tree’s making you sleepy the same sorta thing where when one person yawns everyone yawns

I just really like how this tail loops around RGB’s physical actual legs. It makes it seem like speech is a tangible thing that interacts with the world and that you could, like, touch or something. all it’s missing is a shadow

God, fuck me. That’s the yellow brick road. God dammit. Son of a bitch.

RGB, pg 14: do not touch me, do not look at me, don’t speak to me, you have tentative permission to breathe

RGB from the Market onwards: carries her multiple times (admittedly, almost always exactly like you shouldn’t), picks her up, swings her around, hugs her when she’s scared of the dark, ‘I Have Longer Legs, Hop On’ piggybacks, protecting her by putting his own bod in harms way, general Manhandling of Child

I kid, I kid, it’s more complex than that. For one, RGB doesn’t want Hero getting hurt cause she’s Important and has Heroing she can’t do if she’s injured. Second, that whole “don’t get attached” thing gets thrown out the window on like day 2

“I’ve only known Hero for a day and a half but if anything happened to her I’d kill everyone in this room and then myself”

RGB is honestly... super bad at not attaching to people. honestly, actually terrible at it

Ooh! Those flowers! I didn’t realize those always happen when Hero’s sleeping. They also look like she’s drawn them herself! That’s honestly… lethally adorable

Fun fact technicolor dream shell snail changes colors every panel

RGB bleeds static? What emotion is that? I dig it, unconscious is an emotion and i feel it in my soul

w...white noise.... god DAMMIT

ey, the tree’s look different in the light of day- all those blurry fairy light ‘leaves’ are gone now.

!! Hero glows the exact same way when she’s asleep! RGB, however, is not. Tree’s have leaves when they dream, huh

oh god tree’s have LEAVES when they DREAM

...we’ll come back to this thought when we get to the sick sun tree cause that thing is a whole other can of Lore worms

In a different direction, there must be some sort of difference between Tree Dreaming and People Dreaming, because dreaming trees do NOT trigger RGB’s weird stuntman nightmares

these particular trees are also see-through; i can’t remember if they’re all like this throughout the world? will have to pay attention and see

oh- OH. also just made the connection for why trees provide a saf(er) haven- bottled nightmares will very shortly be used to dispel fears. Dreams repel Fears! It’s best to sleep near tree’s because just you dreaming might not be enough to keep things at bay while your rest

And the chapter’s finished off with a new character and new speechbox to go with it! It’s the first to use a different font and text color to our main characters

Honestly though, what is UP with the Butterfly? It’s clearly keeping close tabs on them, and only speaks to Hero when RGB is unconscious or otherwise occupied. It clearly doesn’t wanna be seen by him, which is shady. It shows up like twice? And the other time RGB and Hero don’t even know it’s there and listening. Between that and the Eyes, like… does it have it’s own agenda and interests or is it an agent of Hate? Idk man maybe I’ll pick up on more Butterfly stuff on this readthrough

*notices that the plant it was resting on withers once it flies away* ... that’s no good. especially if that butterfly can do the same to trees

...... ah. it kinda can. Consider, please, Hate’s likely role in the demise of the Sun, and Her confirmed ability to smother them in [-----]

Butterfly’s parting words: “be wise”. Hero’s next and immediate action: doodle RGB’s face

And that’s the Hook! Join me next time when Hero has a fun play date with some new friends everything goes wrong almost instantly.

#tpoh #the property of hate #tpoh meta #the specific tag for this adventure will be...#tpoh time with Gill #i assure all of you i make these posts out of love

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vio1315 · 6 years

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So one of the panels I went to involved a guy trying to explain why Link/Zelda/Hyruleans were immoral in BotW and Ganon was good (to further a point about ethics being bs or whatever)

But he was factually wrong on a lot of things, so I’ll go through it

Point about monarchies being a poor governmental system, fine. Everything in that sort of category, I’ll give him.

The rest though

Monsters being intelligent, and thus wrong to kill:

Monsters often are shown to be smarter than animals in multiple games, yeah. They use tools, some of them have language, some can even start fires and show indication of cultures. Regardless on where we rate them on sentience though, the fact remains that they’re an invasive force who attack humans on sight. Even if we look at them on the same level as humans, they’ve essentially entered into someone’s country in an attempt to eradicate that people group or control them. If we believe at all in self defense, it’s justifiable. You can however question some methods as needlessly cruel.

Along with this point, it was also referenced that as long as people stayed in their towns and such, monsters didn’t bug them. So they were clearly living at peace until you decided the monsters needed to die

This is incorrect.

If you notice, every town is either walled off (in varying capacities) or in a defensible position. There are also generally guards of some sort.

(I think that fishing village is the only one not this way...? Though it does have a mountain on one end and ocean on the other, idk how good they’d handle an actual attack)

We never hear of this being a defense against people

Rather, we do see two women directly outside their town being attacked by monsters.

People on the roads being attacked by monsters

There’s not boundaries with these being newly established territories. People are staying in their towns for the added protection from monsters who attack on sight.

They would surely attack the towns as well if they weren’t defended.

So again, this is more akin to the country being taken over by a foreign power/people. The monsters, without proper guidance, can’t make coordinated attacks however, and thus are mainly built around. This doesn’t make self defense morally reprehensible however. Attacking their camps isn’t much different if say some foreign country sent groups to set up camps in our country with the intent of killing as many of us as possible to take over.

(Stables are another beast entirely, though)

Ganon possibly being a good leader, which we have no proof either way on due to him never successfully gaining the position:

If we go back to OoT, we see that after Ganondorf takes over, everything is destroyed. People are dead in Castle Town, and he rules with an iron fist, hurting people in every civilization just to ensure allegiance. He about wipes out all zora and gorons.

Even if we don’t go back, in BotW, he is more beast like (though he maintains some amount of understanding due to his handling of the guardians) but I don’t think this would help his capacity as ruler.

Historically we see him commit evils, though we get less chance to see him do so in a direct capacity in BotW due to his being sealed.

The best we know is his destruction of Hyrulean cities/similar, killing them, all in their own country and capital. So in his current state, his version of ruling over Hyrule involves wiping them out. There doesn’t seem to be much distinction made between targets. Again, calamity ganon is different than Ganondorf was when he had his mind. Even back when he was human, he had a tendency for wiping out people groups, but as calamity ganon, there’s really no holding back in an attempt to have survivors to serve him

He also spreads the malice which seems to make monsters and the pollution that is harmful to humans (and all living creatures, as it even has extremely negative effects on a dragon, which is much more powerful than humans.)

If he has enough mind left, this at best is him wiping out all Hyruleans to have the land for his own... monsters?

Not even his own people, as the Gerudo are not free from his targeting.

Likely, calamity ganon has lost his humanity, and is not capable as a ruler on any level, lacking strict control of his thoughts and actions. I mean, calamity is in the name.

The attack against Hyrule (resulting in the guardians being overtaken and Ganondorf sealed) being a justified attack:

It was mentioned that the Hyruleans were looking for weapons to destroy Ganon once and for all, and so his attack was self defense.

This required rewatching cutscenes, as I didn’t honestly remember, but basically the guardians were built before his return 10,000 years prior to BotW. They were employed after he struck again, which is where he got his knowledge of them

So they were made in preparation to fight against him. The fact that he knows about them when they’re attempted to be used again, 100 years in the past, suggests it’s the same Ganon, not a reincarnation.

Thus, they have reason to seek out weapons against him as they prepare for his next attack.

At this point they know he’s been doing this over and over again since the beginning of time

It being wrong to assume Ganondorf will be evil in all reincarnations:

Interesting, but this depends on what theory you go with.

I have usually felt it’s the same Ganon(dorf) without resurrection each time.

Such as

from OoT to TP, it’s the same Ganondorf

From OoT to WW it’s the same Ganondorf

in Zelda to Zelda II it’s the same Ganondorf (though he was killed and Zelda II is trying to /resurrect/ him)

in the seasons and ages games, I forget if they’re trying to break a seal or resurrect him, but it ultimately succeeds and he comes in as Ganon

That’s just from memory.

So I always had the sense that while the heroes tend to reincarnate, through being sealed and breaking out of seals on top of resurrections, Ganondorf is the same, or very rarely reincarnates

This tends to make Ganon (the beast forms) make more sense in my eyes as he kinda loses more and more humanity in the process each time.

But if we are assuming each Ganondorf is separate unless explicitly stated otherwise, and we are assuming he doesn’t get any memories through the triforce of power (which I don’t think has ever been confirmed, and I forget any hints to it honestly, so it might be fanon) In that case, then yes, you’d obviously want to not just murder him as a preventative measure

That said

Every game where he appears does have him do something bad before you’re sent to face him. In BotW, as mentioned before, they’re expecting the same Ganon, who already seems to be in calamity form. And really, when you look at that, do you really think ‘Yeah that looks super mortal and killable’

No, they were expecting that same thing to return

Like they never went baby hunting or any such thing

In the old days, that would have been really easy too. Find any male Gerudo and kill him? Like before Ganondorf became a beast, it would have been simple.

However, most times the story is such a legend by the next game, that details like that tend to be lost to the people anyways

The Yiga clan being justified:

If Ganondorf can not be made out to be good, the Yiga also can’t.

They’re at a similar level to a cult in some ways, much as I enjoy them. They want Ganondorf to reign, though he destroyed half their country and has never spoken a word. We don’t see evidence that he’s even aware of them, I’d say?

I’d argue they’re better than the monsters, since they only target Link as far as I recall (they’re human and thus capable of such coordination) but it still doesn’t really spare them for serving calamity Ganon who just killed half the country and then flew around the castle not saying anything for 100 years

(I might have missed some lore somewhere, idk)

And that’s without getting into all the ‘Link’s crazy, seeing his dead friends’ and so on stuff. We all know that stuff is part of the games high fantasy world, and we have been given no reason in the narrative to question the authenticity of seeing these things.

In terms of the point made about Link violating the Gerudos customs and cultures by forcing his way into their city? Desperate times is all I’ll say there. If we believe Ganondorf was a true threat, then we can excuse this sort of thing

Basically, the guy ended his presentation saying that ethics were bs (particularly in gaming?)

But honestly if you twist and misinterpret information, you can do that to anything. There’s very legitimate things to hook onto, but this doesn’t really drive home his point to think things through. If you don’t make legitimate cases yourself, why should I take you seriously?

You know in TP it’s implied that the royal family did pretty terrible things to the gerudo people? There’s literally a prison with torture mechanisms in the desert, classically depicted as where they lived, but no gerudo.

We know a lot of the prisoners were sealed away in another realm there too. It could be argued against, but there’s a lot more evidence for this sort of thing.

We know that in ALttP the soldiers who hunt down Link are being mind controlled/similar. They’re actual people that you kill. There’s something to be said there, and a lot of questions you can ask.

I mean, if you really want to stretch, in WW you’re working with pirates, and we never really know what they did before searching for new land. With how they handled things on Windfall, they did kind of do what they pleased to some extent.

These are off the top of my head, with a little effort, you could think of really valid points to question how we perceive good/evil in these games. I think it’s especially cheap to rely on player action to portray these matters.

If you went through a game like Skyrim, you can play it by joining the dark brotherhood and killing and stealing everything in your path. Or you can not steal, not kill outside of self defense, and so on.

The game gives you options, but it should not be assumed that the game’s protagonist has taken every single option.

You can steal in Link’s Awakening, but we can’t assume that as an inherent part of that Link’s character. That is entirely player choice.

So those are all my feelings involving the points brought up during the panel.

The inaccuracies bothered me is all, but I had little freedom to mention all my points at the time, so they go here.

#Vio's Personal #Not putting this in the tag though idk if it matters with search #anyways this is going off memory but I'm pretty confident in this stuff?#The tone of the guys voice told me he knew he was twisting things #but he annoyed me by not even trying that hard #And why is it that everyone who twists things always said #'I can see I just blew your mind' or whatever?#Like you blew my mind how inept you are at this #No. I'm aware what he was doing and that it was intentional #but the cockiness was a tad annoying when he hasn't even played OoT apparently #(and thus who knows what else?)#I agree that in games people make a lot of assumptions #but this was a poorly executed way of showing that #not to mention. He mentions Link being a mute psychopath. Link literally writes his own logs?#I know the English version changes this so I can't expect him to know this per se #but he literally writes stuff like 'I hope they're okay' 'that was fun' 'I hope to see her smile again'#I believe the English version puts it more like 'you hope to see her smile again' which still communicates this stuff #so you have to ignore that aspect of the game to decide he's psychotic

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