xj-16

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Episode 4

TW: R-pe, Sexual Assault and Abuse, Physical abuse.

So uh, I really did just guess "there is no way it's that bad, right?"...

OK, SO LET'S TALK. So again if you haven't seen the episode big Trigger Warning for its content! It's real heavy, explicit and on your face. I'm a Sexual abuse victim talking about this, just so you know.

I think the bigger problem I have with the episode, it's the context surrounding it and what happens later on, specially. Many people can have different views on the poison scene itself, for their own. But that scene, even if you as a victim relate, can only really work in a vacuum. Why? Let's see... hum.... The jokes of male SA in Helluva Boss? How it's written as funny to Moxxie to get assaulted? By the Succubus, Blitz, Chaz? Not seeing any problem in Stolitz, and victim blaming Blitz.

Suddenly Viv wants to be like: "Male sexual assault and abuse it's so not talked about, I'm going to write about it". As if she didn't write all those HB jokes. All those jokes are only men getting assaulted too, by other men or woman. The SA and r-pe it's funny when it's done to men, why did this even happen?

Even if the entire episode 4 was good, why did the same person write all this jokes? Is the sexual harassment Angel does to husk, even going to be addressed later or...? The biggest problem, it's the bad execution. Something happens a lot with HB and HH, it's that scenes and concepts work In isolation, that way you imagine in infinite possibilities of the "what if this". But they give you is in it'self not that good. The series does expect you to be a fan, and have to watch the pilot. Because it doesn't really bother to introduce the characters or anything. So the emotional bits don't hit that hard if you didn't already care about the characters since or before the pilot.

Since the first episodes, Valentino has being changing between fucking idiot and horrifying monster. In episode 2 he is treated as a stupid dumbass. I feel like all the episodes until 4 were too much, on the comedy shit- to immediately jump into explicit abuse and SA is a lot. In the end of the episode they also shift back the tone, weirdly.

So we jump into Val and Angel's work, showing how shitty val is. Charlie jumps into interrupting the hole thing. AND VAL ASSAULTS HER TOO??? I didn't expect that. He grabs her kisses and lick up her arm, and gets too close to her in other scenes. Then Charlie accidentally ruins the set, and Val ends up physically abusing Angel. Living him with a black eye, and it's shown Angel did a deal with him. Leaving him fully trapped with him (not a legal contract, but a devil/sinner bound magic thing). Then it's poison music number.

Many people feel like it's too graphic. Other people will say it's okey, because it shows the problem straight on, and it's supposed to make you uncomfortable.

Explicit doesn't = good.

You can talk a lot of what does this level of graphic/explicit add to the conversation.

My main problem with it being so explicit comes from who is directing that hole part of the episode. I talked about it in the post above. The person in question:

(BLURRED CUT PICTURE)

Does this scene above seem familiar to you? This person put together with how the poison part of the episode is played out AND all the disgusting "SA is funny" jokes HB make this a fucking problem.

AND THEN THE FUCKING ENDING IS CRAZY BAD LIKE HELLO???? At the end, Angel is at a bar, and his drink gets spiked. Husk gets him out and fights against the guys that spiked the drink. Then they kindly have an argument... To get through the whole heavy ass episode- to then Husk hit with a song calling Angel a baby IS FUCKING CRAZY. I see what the point was supposed to be, but the execution absolutely kills it. The song tries to compare Husk and Angel, to say shit sucks but hey it's okay we are in this together, BUT HOLY SHIT. Why, comparing Angel Dust being sexually abused under a demonic contract (HE IS STILL UNDER)- to Husk having to work for Alastor. Yes, Husk fucked up his life in hell do to gambling- that's not comparable to Angel being in an abusive relationship where he gets taken advantaged of. Calling Angel dust a baby loser, "everyone got it difficult get over your self"- it's fucking crazy. The fact that the episode ends on everyone happy and laugh it off it awful! WHAT HAPPEN???????? Like Angel is still under Val's contract- his going to have to go back to work, or to any other place where his drink could be spiked. We are still in the same problem. I don't- I don't understand. The song wasn't even a "I'll help you", it felt more like "Hey shit sucks, get over it". How did you write that? I don't think the series has the time or good enough space to treat the subjects- and they are dealing in the worst way.

[xj-16]

It's funny how they wanna paint the critical side of the fandom as "entitled" even though they're the ones Viv panders to and spoils. Or call them "Triggered" but proceed to lash out and lose their goddamn minds over someone having an opinion that isn't obvious bias.

And I'll say this again the "If you don't like it, don't watch it" argument is the most laziest excuse to dodge criticism and and on top of that it's very condescending. So you're allowed to boast about how "Groundbreaking" or a "hUgE sTeP fOr AdUlt AniMaTion" HH and HB are? But if someone politely disagrees then they're in the wrong?

If we're gonna go by that logic then why are you getting so worked up over somebody not praising the show and it's creator? All I'm saying is that HH and HB have serious potential but it will never be as good as the hardcore fans claim it to be as long as the creator herself keeps doing what she's doing. The entire first season is enough proof that the Spindlehorse crew is not giving it their all. They know how easily impressed the fans are and that they'll take whatever Viv gives them. Even after being lied to about EP 8 being so important only to turn out to be a filler episode with no real importance, the fans still forgive Viv and Co.

That's the issue with people like this. Nobody is obligated to give a half assed opinion or just outright lie about what they think about these shows just so they can fuel the fantasy in your head that HH and HB are flawless, which they're far from. Or make you feel better for having terrible taste in media.

If you support both the shows and the creator, that's fine. But don't go around bashing other folks for not being sheep, blindly consuming whatever media gets thrown into the trending section.

I know I probably said a lot more than I should've, but I had to get that off my chest. The hypocrisy in this fandom is so mindblowing.

Might want to block this weirdo. They’re stalking the critical tag

https://firecrackerhh.tumblr.com/post/686281405189226496/i

Okay, thanks for informing me.

#helluva critical #tw r slur

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The first time Helluva Bos made me laugh, and it wasn't even a joke from the show.

Someone else has probably made the same meme months ago

#helluva critical

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Hey!! Did you hear about the recent announcement from the Helluva Boss Twitter account? They gave an update on not only S2, and a release date, it'll be released this summer on July 30th. But, also on episode 8, and apparently this whole time, we've been waiting on an episode that concludes NOTHING To the main story and is just filler and a waste of time pretty much. And it's pretty much been revealed that Episode 7 was pretty much the season finale and episode 8 is just a filler episode, with pretty visuals.

(Oh, they also thrown in a small sneak peak for S2, which is Baby Stolas. And I have a feeling, they're gonna show a flashback of Stolas, to make us feel and have sympathy for him even more, like this show has been doing and making up hate and just have the fandom have hatred towards Stella even more. And possibly the upcoming character, who is Stolas's Peacock Brother in law, they'll probably have Stolas be this sympathetic character, even tho he's awful, he's a bad father and just isn't a good character.)

This made me so annoyed and upset, and just thought this all wasted our time!! And it's a slap to the face and I don't really know what to say, because I don't have the energy to really get angry and upset, I don't understand why Viv hyped this up and says this is gonna be the best episode ever, if it's just gonna be filled with filler!! S1 Was Nothing BUT FILLER, So why did we need more of it, it's pointless and there's just no point getting hyped or really watching episode 8 or really S2, because they're nothing to get excited or look forward to. Plus, this show has had many issues, along with shoving a toxic and unhealthy pairing like Stolitz in our faces and just being forced overall, Ect. Honestly, I'm just waiting for Hazbin's release at this point and hope that it's AT LEAST decent and watchable, and just not as messy as HB is, overall..once Hazbin is released I'll be done with Helluva and move on, I just don't find myself interested in the show anymore and just don't find myself getting excited or even caring, there's honestly not much to look forward to, IMO.

(Along with that, some Fans and people who work with Viv are basically telling some who are angry and annoyed by Viv's actions and basically how she hyped this episode up, and just messed up, are telling us to stop be untiled and to STFU, Ect. It's like we're not allowed to be upset and express our annoyance and anger, and just opinions in general, especially in The HB/HH fandom. My gosh, this fandom..thank god I left it, and moved on, because it can be toxic, especially when it comes to criticism and shipping. NOT everyone in the fandom is bad, I'm just pointing to the toxic ones in the fanbase and the ones who just can't handle hearing any Criticisms and problems people have with the show. But overall, I feel bad for the animators because they pretty much wasted their time, and besides..Filler should be in the middle, and the story should come first. You know what I'm saying? Like, Viv really shouldn't be overworking herself, it's not good for her or her team, both mentally and physically and plus, it's especially not good on Viv's health, since she's working on two shows at the exact same time!! But, has probably been mostly working on a spinoff to a show, that's not even released yet and only has a pilot right now.)

Ok, first things first. I indeed have seen the posts and they bring more questions than answers (which is no surprise to anyone since Viv and co are messy and inconsistent when it comes to planning.) I still don't understand why the fandom hypes these episodes as if they're telling some breathtaking story. They're nothing more than filler and fanservice of the fandom's favorite characters. The characters constantly switch personalities to fit whatever situation they're in, the worldbuilding is all over the place, and the "comedy" is just middle school level immature and unfunny. The most it'll get out of me is a snicker. The fans are either easily impressed or they're just as unaware when it comes to writing a decent story.

Also, Stolas was a baby? So does that make him Hellborn? I hope they're not trying to use cuteness to make me pity him, cause it's gonna take a lot more than that Viv. At least for once we finally have a date for Season 2 instead of "Coming Soon 😈". I'm assuming that there were some legal issues when it came to Ep 8's production which may explain the delay.

And last but not least, will the stans grow the fuck up? It doesn't matter how hard Viv and her crew worked on Helluva Boss, that's not a get out of jail free card. And because it was "done for free" is the most dumbest reason to dodge criticism. Nobody told your asses to help produce Helluva Boss, you willingly accepted the offer, and you're mad cause you didn't get the results you wanted? When you put something out in the public, people are allowed to point out the both the pros and cons. This isn't a one way street. These people act as if nobody is allowed to talk about Hazbin Hotel or Helluva Boss without it being praise and giving Viv more credit than she really deserves. Viv clearly doesn't understand that and it applies to the toxic fans as well who can't tell the difference between Hate and Constructive Criticism.

Viv can do either of two things, ignore it and go about her day or hear out the criticism and attempt to improve instead of taking it as a personal attack. I can tell that just by how she handles negative opinions that she's been lied to by everyone about her own skills. Granted, she's a good artist, but a godawful story teller and she should atleast awknowledge that not everything she makes is perfect.

Also, who the hell is harassing Viv? Cause last time I checked it was the fans (the toxic ones) going out of their way to harass and doxx people over stupid ass fictional ships or for not thinking so highly of Viv and her shows. It's people like that, that are doing Vivziepop the greatest disservice by lying to her, making her believe that everything she touches turns to gold, not calling her out for bullying smaller artists, getting pissed at people for redesigning her characters (which I can only assume she does out of spite and jealousy over better takes of her own characters, unless she says otherwise).

It won't be just Viv's stubborness and ignorance that'll be her own downfall, but the fandom (toxic ones) actively encouraging her to believe that she's entitled to nothing more than praise, not being honest about the flaws and toxic behavior that both Hazbin and Helluva push, and treating her like a machine rather than a person (hence making her overwork and overstress herself in order to appease their ungrateful asses.) To which I'm still not over them giving Viv shit over Angel Dust simply getting a new VA.

Overall, there's not much left I can say. I wanna believe there's hope for Viv but she surrounds herself with yes men like Sam and Raph who do nothing but make her believe that there's nothing wrong with how she presents herself.

And now that Hazbin is in the works, I'm even more afraid for her because the REAL Critics will not hold back. Saberspark and the rest of those self proclaimed "cartoon critics" who act as if their verdicts are the end all be all, will not be able to protect the show's image no matter what they say.

But only time will tell how this will all end.

#helluva critical #vivziepop critical #hazbin critical

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She pays attention to the so called "haters" so she can keep painting herself as this victim that's being wrongly attacked. When all she's doing is complaining about people not liking her stuff or praising it.

Ummmmm.....@xj-16 @what-the-hazbin @just-being-leonest @showtoonzfan 😹😹😹😭😭😭💀💀💀

#vivziepop critical

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I lost all respect for Saberspark when Viv started climbing the ranks. You can tell how one sided and biased he was in both his Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss reviews. Instead of being honest he became one of Viv's biggest dickriders to date, even recently he released a video about how Helluva Boss "defies" the youtube algorithm as if the show is this "untouchable magnum opus" that not even youtube can touch. Which only shows the ridiculous claims Saberspark is willing to make just to stroke Viv's ego and be on her good side.

And it's a shame he's not the only one that does it. Sarcastic Chorus, The Roundtable, Cartoon Universe and many more. I don't know what it is about Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss that all of a sudden made these so called "critics" and "reviewers" lose all the tastebuds in their mouths

They can talk down on all other shows like The Prince, Big Mouth, Family Guy for abusing shock humour and having terrible plots when both HH and HB are just as if not worse and guilty. But they're so quick to turn a blind eye to their flaws and issues.

Speaking of the “she’s only not getting criticized much because of her toxic fandom.” it causes me to wonder about the Saberspark situation. Because clearly, becoming a youtube critic has its risks (not everyone agreeing with you, people taking things too far). So it is really a “criticism” channel if they’re not willing to take risks or only criticize for clout from going against something already hated/clickbait instead of genuinely want to address said issues regardless if something is widely hated or not?

True criticism is discussing a issue as… an issue, regardless if the media being spoken of is widely hated or loved. Because that shows that you actually find said issue to be an issue, rather than to say that you “find this to be an issue” or “not an issue” to fit in with what the crowd thinks, rather than what you think. It makes me miss the times when media critique channels weren’t this clout chasing, and were genuinely honest as they actually cared about addressing said writing problems (regardless of how loved the show/movie is) so not as many writers or artists repeat the same mistakes.

Most were about wanting improvement in media, not just to appeal to crowds with either clickbait or only saying what the majority thinks. Then with how he spat on a old man’s work (Misty Green Sky, which though didn’t look very good, didn’t mean that all of the guys work deserved to be shat on by Saberspark to the point where you can no longer find the man online anywhere online anymore due to the hate.), telling the poor guy that he “shouldn’t” be making a film (despite the fact that filmmaking isnt just for studios or professionals, its a hobby for everyone to enjoy!) calling it “ugly” just because this amateur indie animation from one person (comparing it to something animated by a professional with decades of experience and a woman who’s work is animated by many with almost millions of dollars in support.) wasn’t studio quality.

Just to compare it to Vivziepop’s work as a way to bootlick her content further while putting anyone who isn’t the same quality down (I would almost call his of that old man “cruel” even) to make Vivziepop’s work look like the “perfect” example of indie animation despite that clearly not being the case. Using the fact that the movie was for a few dollars as an excuse to harass all of the mans work (including the ones that are free!), causing the poor guy to leave the internet (tried looking him up, the man’s content is gone.) entirely. Yeah, it looks pretty, but thats all her content has going for it since she refuses to improve or find writers who actually know how to do it well other than (semi-decent) comedy. Along with him using the “people can change” excuse to try to make some of the legit harmful things she does look “ok”, it screams bootlicking.

Saberspark in general is just an extremely two faced creator, which truly sucks, because I have good memories of watching his videos on animation history with a family member in my childhood. Its one thing for a creator to turn out to be not as good of a person as you thought, its another thing if said creator was a part of your childhood memories. So finding out about his (almost to even toxic extents) bootlicking of Vivziepop’s content felt like a punch in the gut if I were to be honest.

Jesus Christ… 😞

^^

#vivziepop critical #saberspark

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Ok first of all, Sam that entire statement makes you look so goddamn ignorant and entitled. You mean to tell me that people can't become animators if they simply have no problem handing out constructive criticism? You're gonna get criticized whether you fucking like it or not. You're on the goddamn internet for god's sake. Any "professional" would have enough common sense to know that and grow thicker skin.

And Viv, cut the shit with your "Woe is me" posts already. You know you have a big following, stop whining everytime you're not trending.

Ummmmm.....@xj-16 @what-the-hazbin @just-being-leonest @showtoonzfan 😹😹😹😭😭😭💀💀💀

#vivziepop critical

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There's so much creativity that could've been used for Stolas' character in the show if she actually did proper research for once. But nah, Viv said "Let's make him horny and simp over my Gary Stu Invader Zim oc."

 I’d genuinely love to see a depiction of Stolas in media that’s in line with how he supposedly actually is if you believe in that kind of thing.

Namely, less “simpering, foppish horndog/occasional sexual predator” and more “your least fun professor from college.”

#Helluva Boss #Helluva Boss critical

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One of my main problems with Helluva Boss's usage of swear words is ninety five percent of the time they're spamming the f-bomb cause the producers have the mentality of 15 year olds who think swearing makes them the shit or "Adult" (which it doesn't).

I'm gonna be honest, when Blitzø made that comment about Agent one's mom, it was fucking hilarious! I honestly wish there was more of that humor in the show rather than the cussing for laughs that it has. #like I know mom jokes are middle school but lmfao

#helluva critical

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It's like Hazbin/Helluva's fans are one collective hivemind that all think and act the same, if you even bother to ask questions or criticize the show prepare for a witchhunt cause simply not giving these shows praise are apparently the worse things you can do when involved in this fandom. Thankfully there's a rare few that aren't sheep and are actually willing to give their OWN thoughts. Instead of spewing out the same nonsense they hear from others.

Y'all, cancelling or calling out someone because they don't like your show is immature and stupid as fuck. (Cough, Cough, Vivz/HB and HH fans)

No, I am not cutting yall down for liking your demon show. I am not telling you not to watch it. It is the other way around sweetheart.

YOU are cutting me down for not liking it.

#helluva critical #hazbin critical #spindlehorse critical

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I don't know what it is, but I firmly believe that now Hazbin has finally got some news and seeing how the fanbase has reacted to it, Hazbin Hotel is fucked. I hate being pessimistic, but I also hate being a liar and not being honest on where I truly stand on the matter. It's no longer on the internet (where it should've stayed, and I'm saying this for Viv's sake). The audience is most certainly gonna change because Hazbin Hotel is more out in the open and it's gonna gain a lot more criticism, not just from viewers but from the same company that got it greenlit in the first place, especially when it comes to the show's production. And because Viv's apparently still in charge of it (Correct me if I'm wrong) that just screams bad news, mostly for her. Because we all know Viv can't criticism to save her own life and her writing.......speaks for itself.

And when it comes to the audience, her little ass kissers like Saberspark's "critique" won't save the show's image cause Hazbin's no longer a web show where only a small portion of the world could see it. We'll have legitimate "professional" reviewers that'll come in and rip this show to shreds and they will not hold back just to spare Viv's feelings.

And the redesigns for Charlie and Alastor are okay, I guess cause they're not much different from how they were before. Charlie now looks like Hell's version of Ellen Degeneres and Alastor is the still the same old Alastor, shark teeth and all.

Now that I'm mentioning redesigns, I don't even wanna imagine what the hell will happen when Angel's is revealed. The fandom is so unheathily attached to their "uwu femboy spider boi" that simply his pilot VA being booted caused them to riot. So god knows what a simple design upgrade will do.

But overall this is just a bomb waiting to go off for her.

#hazbin critical #spindlehorse critical

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It's definitely a lot better than what Viv could've came up with.

Edited Andrealphus so he would look like an actual peacock.

OG design by VivziePop:

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I personally believe that Viv's popularity has been down the shitter for quite some time now. The only couple million that still stick around only stay for Hazbin's return, they only care about Helluva because of it's ties to Hazbin Hotel and because it's supposed to explore the world of Hell, to which it does terribly. It's too busy focusing on toxic ships like Stolitz and trying to be "adult" to even properly do that. It's mediocre at best, and those that are online saying that Hazbin and Helluva are better than most big budget films and shows, stop lying your asses off for this woman. That's the most delusional thing I've ever heard. We get it, you love her content, but saying stuff like that makes you sound incredibly stupid and biased.

And fans attacking people for having different opinions is why both the show and it's creator are looked down upon (Not that Viv tries to keep her fandom under control, cause she's just as guilty for whining and bullying people over simple constructive criticism). The show itself is plain toxic and it attracts folks that are just as if not more toxic. If you find joy in watching these shows, that's fine, but don't harass and bully other people when they don't praise it like you do.

Y'all. I'm honestly beginning to lose hope that Viv will ever get justice for her actions, and that people will ever realize that Helluva Boss and Hazbin are LOADED with bigotry and aren't good shows. I had so many fans attack me today for expressing my views on Viv and why I hate her. Not to mention, if you so as much say anything about their "UwU horny funny demon" show, they'd flip and take it as personal offense, but lol what can you do 🤪🤪🤪 @showtoonzfan @sexymen-dystopia @what-the-hazbin @helluva-critical

#helluva critical

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By far one of the best edits I've seen. He looks like a legitimate peacock than another one of Viv's copy and paste generic bird characters. Would love to see Dramokin's version if I'm being honest.

Edited Andrealphus so he would look like an actual peacock.

OG design by VivziePop:

#helluva critical #dramokin

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If anybody has any questions or opinions they'd like to share, feel free to do so. 👍

#hazbin critical #helluva critical #your opinion

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Problem is, what-the-hazbin has often said that they hates all of the things spindlehorse has made and even recently said it was a shitty show. If they think its such a shitty show with no redeeming qualities then why watch it? Also i never said you cant be critical of the show, i only said that i dont get the point in forcing yourself to watch a show you hate. I often look at and agree with many critiques of the show, difference is they're doing it because they actually like the show and want it to improve. What-the-hazbin seems like they're doing it purely based on hate for spindlehorse and vivziepop. I do like critics of the show but i dont understand constantly being upset by a show and creator they dont like and proberbly never change.

Ok, but still. They're allowed to voice their opinions no matter the circumstances. It's the internet for crying out loud, they shouldn't have to stay quiet just because what they have to say about a cartoon personally offends you. And sometimes people keeping watching, just in case things do get better, which unfortunately they haven't. Their opinions can change, but it hasn't cause the shows haven't improved nor has the creator made an effort to improve. I'm pretty sure you'd be pissed if you wanted to like something, but it's potiential of being something great was always being held back by the creator, who acts more childish than the actual children who consume her content.