#and with everyone wanting Will’s character to revolve around his feelings for Mike it really seems like y’all want Will to be obsessed

[drunkengodsofslaughter]

So we all know that Will helped Mike to give that monologue. And how that Will said in the car what he said to Mike was the way that he felt instead of El. However, me head-cannoning Will as ace actually takes this whole van scene and Mike giving that monologue to a new light. A lot of people complain that Mike didn’t say anything about El’s personality and instead reduce her to her powers and tells her that she can fly. Thinking about it Will never actually tells Mike what he really loved about him (even if it was a disguise). It’s in a skewed perceptive in more ways than one. And with my experiences, I’ve been realizing that a lot of the people I had crushes on, I never actually knew them. I had this whole different version of them in my head and I loved the idea of them. And it seems like that’s something interesting in Will’s case too as he seems to do the same thing. We all know that Will says that Mike is the heart of the party however a lot of the fandom has been saying that that isn’t Mike. Even saying that it’s Will or Lucas or Dustin. And another interesting thing is that Will says how Mike makes him feel. Mike makes him feel like he’s not a mistake. However, present Mike’s actions seem to have the opposite effect. Despite Mike not reciprocating and being oblivious his actions as a friend are pretty shitty to Will. Mike’s behavior in present and cannon is to ignore Will in favor of El and blame Will for El being upset or not telling the truth about her bullying until it was too late. It honestly seems like Will has latched into that Mike of years ago. The one who was at his side and understands his pain. The one who didn’t completely ignore him. Now Mike isn’t there at all so Will is latching onto the Mike that he knew. Not the one that is hurting him now. Will can’t even acknowledge that a person who is his best friend and crush is hurting him. Idk Will’s speech seems so similar to how I viewed my crushes and years later realizing I latched into the idea of love or how I wanted them to love me. And before y’all say anything I am not a guy and gay so I don’t know the full extent that Will is going through. And before y’all say another thing I had a crush on someone who I was friends with for years so yeah I know the pinning shit.

#stranger things #will byers #idk just thinking about it makes me ache with how familiar it is #I’m not erasing Will’s crush on Mike! #it just seems so similar to the way I viewed my crushes #and with everyone wanting Will’s character to revolve around his feelings for Mike it really seems like y’all want Will to be obsessed #with Mike which was how I reacted whenever I had my crushes which DAMAGES relationships #it honestly may be the reason why I lost my friend as I was so fucking obvious! #this is why I want Will to be able to find happiness away from Mike #and why y’all’s obsession with Will’s crush on Mike drives me nuts #i may touch this up tomorrow but I really want to post this sooo!!! #also I’m not erasing Will as gay someone can be gay and ace!!! #thinking about it it has more to do with my experiences as a questioning person instead of a full ace person soooo maybe I’m an unreliable #narrator #anyway it also bugs me that in season 3 he could give less of a shot about romance but suddenly now Will has been pinning after Mike for #years #idk it just don’t make sense to me!

[starbylers]

Mike’s lack of personal journey in a Mlvn reading of the show: why so many people complain about Mike’s character

Something just occurred to me…I actually would challenge any Mlvn to tell me about a character motivation/internal conflict of Mike’s that does not revolve around El. What struggles does Mike as a person deal with throughout the series? When trying to build an effective, realistic, well-rounded character you can’t have their biggest fear be ‘loosing this particular person’ as Mlvns love to claim is Mike’s. As a writer you have to understand your character’s deepest desires and what drives them at their core, they cannot be purely motivated by an external force. A character such as that will feel hollow, boring and difficult to connect with. This is basic character development stuff.

Examples (simplified to get the point across):

For the whole show, El struggles with finding her place in a world where she feels fundamentally different

For most of the show, Will struggles with his sexuality and feeling like a ‘mistake’

Dustin in s2 deals with his self-esteem and understanding that he is good enough even if he doesn’t have a girl’s approval

Lucas in s4 wrestles with a desire to be popular and to ‘fit in’ which we see him overcome

Max in s4 deals with depression and the process of wishing to no longer be here to realising she actually wants to live

But…what about Mike? A brief Mlvn interpretation of everything he does through the show and why he does it:

S1: he saves and looks after El because he fell in love with her. He also looks for his friend Will.

S2: he is heartbroken because El is not with him anymore, and then madly in love again once she’s back.

S3: he has ups and downs with El because teen relationships are just like that, and then they get back together because they’re truly in love. He’s also too in love with his girlfriend to care about his old interests.

S4: he fights with El because all couples fight, and then rescues her from Nina while taking friendly advice from Will. Finally he confesses his love, which he didn’t do before because he’s terrified to lose her oh and he’s not good at feelings (but they won’t digger any deeper into that last one 🤐).

Like…yeah they acknowledge Mike also helps with the supernatural stuff, he’s smart and observant. He generally takes charge of the group and looks out for his friends, and (at least in earlier seasons) he’s the leader. But those are character traits. Everyone has them. (Max is sarcastic and kinda scary when she needs to be, Dustin can be cocky but is highly intelligent, Lucas is very headstrong and follows his own judgement, Will is sensitive and empathetic). I’m talking about character conflicts/journeys. Can they tell us what journey Mike has gone on as his own person???

And this, this is why lots and lots of people complain that Mike’s character revolves around El (especially since they started dating). This is why people say Mike is the Duffer’s self-insert and is just meant to be a blank slate relatable character. This is why Mlvns characterise him as El’s obsessed loser boyfriend. Because if you view the show through a Mlvn lens then yeah, Mike looks utterly two-dimensional with no drive other than screeching El El El when she’s in danger (sorry it had to be said).

The problem is when you try to dig into what Mike’s deeper motivations could possibly be, it gets very bad for Mlvn very fast:

‘Mike is scared to lose El because he’s worried she won’t need him’

Let’s detach El from that and figure out the root of this problem, what is really going on with Mike here (we already know but just for the sake of my point), because he is a character in his own right and this was a large focus of his story last season.

What do we know? Mike expressed feelings of worthlessness (‘I’m just some random nerd...’) and feelings of inferiority (…‘who got lucky superman landed on his doorstep’) in his relationship. He acknowledges that his and El’s relationship was fundamentally built on her just needing someone. Also, throughout the series we see Mike has a strong desire to help and serve and save those close to him, it’s who he is.

Mike is so clearly driven by a need to feel needed and fears being an unimportant nobody. He doesn’t think he’s special or useful next to El and it hurts him, his self-esteem is very, very low. But Mlvns never acknowledge that, because that would require admitting that a) Will’s words in the van showed he recognises & loves the Mike as the brave and inspiring leader he wants to be, and in doing so soothed Mike’s personal insecurities (because those do exist, and the talk wasn’t just ‘relationship advice’) and b) Mlvn’s relationship makes Mike feel shitty.

Another example:

Common Mlvn interpretation: ‘Mike was spending all his time with El in s3 because he’s in love with her and he is growing out of childish games’

What do we know? (1) Mike didn’t truly loose interest in DnD, he just neglected his interests when he got into a relationship, super healthy (2) He tries to act cool around El (‘Sorry that made me sound like a 7 year old’ / feigning disinterest in Dustin’s inventions) (3) When arguing with Will, Mike frames him getting a girlfriend as being the inevitable progression of life, the opposing choice from ‘sitting in his basement playing games’…but then he joins Hellfire in s4…as soon as El leaves. He didn’t truly believe anything he was saying to Will, he just can’t juggle being himself and having a gf simultaneously 😬.

Mike’s internal conflict here is clearly feeling like he has to grow up, and has to suppress his true identity in the name of achieving that. (And this continues somewhat into s4 with the fake, not-at-all-his-style Cali outfit in El’s fav colours). But again, understanding that requires understanding that Mlvn as a couple is not a safe space for Mike to be himself, and what Mlvns characterise as a normal teenage ups and downs is actually indicative of an unhealthy relationship.

Basically what I’m saying is it makes so, so much sense why Mike is one of the most disliked characters among the GA (aside from like the actual villains) and why he always ends up on those stupid lists. People are sick of him existing just to be El’s love interest. And that is not true in the slightest, but when you aren’t looking deeper than Mlvn…yeah it does look pretty bad, and I understand where they’re coming from. And as much as we say El is the one who Mlvns are obsessed with making everything about her boyfriend, the real victim of this treatment from them is Mike. Even his heart-to-hearts with Will are actually Mike thinking about El, apparently.

This is another reason why I’m so sure about Byler because Mike is essentially the original main character (aside from El I guess). I’m sorry but there’s no way he is the only one the writers managed to mess up this badly when they are capable of adding deeper personal development to characters who are much less central to the story. Even Finn himself said we’ve not been as personal with Mike recently but s5 will remedy that and people will be happy with his journey. The day Mlvns and GA are forced to look deeper at Mike’s personal internal conflict outside of how it relates to El is the day I will know peace 🙏🏽

#byler #anti mileven #wow this got incredibly long congrats if you make it to the end

[pinkeoni]

During his emotionally charged speech in the van, Will says one particularly potent line.

"When you're different... You feel like... a mistake."

This line is highlighted visually by the camera shifting positions to outside of the van, a shot that is only used one other time to punctuate the end of the scene. This line holds extra weight and the show wants you to know it.

I already made an analysis on the word mistake and what that means for Will, but I want to look at the word different, which feels emphasized in the delivery of the line as well.

"When you're [pause for effect] different..."

It's popular headcanon among st fandom that "everyone in Hawkins is gay!" which sometimes bleeds from into their belief of real canon. Sexuality headcanon lists suddenly are seen with an air of truth to them, and a number of fanon queer ships are accompanied with evidence of their supposed endgame status.

I realize that this is kind of a... weird post to make. I'm not really making this to tell people to stop doing something, this is more of just a rattling off of some opinions I've had for awhile.

I do wanna start off with the obligatory: Do whatever the hell you want. I'm not here to stop you from doing something or tell you that you are wrong for thinking that a character is gay or for shipping something. You are allowed to ship whoever you want, think whatever you want about any character, any ship I don't like I have filtered. But I'm also allowed to not like these ships, or disagree with how others view certain characters. Just as others are allowed to have and express their opinion, I'm also allowed to have and state my opinions on the opinion website.

I think the important thing regarding Will being different is the fact that he is different. As my good friend @karenchildress once put it, if everyone were queer, it would cheapen the message the show is trying to give. Sure, the show displays a variety of ways of being different, but being gay is, among other things Will has been through re: being taken into the Upside Down, is Will's way of being different in Hawkins.

And of course Robin is gay as well, and while there is some crossover, the lived experiences of a gay man is different from that of a lesbian woman, which the show does touch on. Will's story is part of an extended AIDS metaphor, and Robin struggles to gain the attention of women in a world that seems to revolve around the attention of men.

It might be nice to have a moment between Will and Robin, although that alone won't solve Will's problem, i.e. his belief that being different makes him a mistake. Cause that's the thing: the resolution is that being different is a good thing.

If everyone character were queer, this would cheapen the message. Suddenly the resolution isn't that being different is a good thing, but that he isn't different after all.

So then, are queer stories meant to have only token characters?

I think it depends on the type of story, and what it's trying to say. Heartstopper has an eclectic queer cast, but it's also a show that embraces finding community and other people like you. Sex Education has a variety of different sexual identities, but it's also a show that aims to explore a lot of different perspectives.

And there are also queer stories where the queer character's disposition, and their struggle because of that, is a big part of the story. I believe this is what this show is trying to do— highlight Will's difference and how that pertains to his personal struggle and the resolution of that.

One argument that I hear against Will with powers is the idea that making him more different would be bad for his character, because he hates being different. But the thing is, Will is going to learn that his differences are a good thing, which may include any possible powers.

Of course Will isn't the only one with powers, and he also isn't the only gay one. El, Henry, and Kali all have powers, and Robin, Vickie, and Mike (and maybe Henry? I haven't seen TFS myself so I'm not commenting on that) are all gay. So while he's not alone, these things are still a rarity. It's not a case of a headcanon list with mostly everyone gay and some token straights.

"Characters are not straight by default."

This sentiment isn't unique to the st fandom and also didn't originate within this fandom, but it is something that I hear often. And it's... not really true, although it kind of depends on the piece of media we are talking about. It might be easy to say this about a show made in the 2020's, although this same sentiment is hard to state about, well, most shows made before the 2020s. And even then, it depends on what the show is going for.

People being not straight by default is a true statement in real life. You shouldn't assume a sexuality for anyone, gay, straight or what have you. But characters are made by people, and people have different biases on how these characters should be written. Calling the Duffers "two straight men" would go against what I just said, although I don't think that the show was written with everyone being gay in mind. Aside from the 4 (maybe 5) I listed, the other characters are not written to be queer. They just aren't.

All of the queer characters have arcs that feature their queerness. Will's queerness has been mentioned since season one. Robin's romance becomes part of her plot in season 4, and Vickie is introduced as her love interest. Romance has always been an important facet of Mike's story since season one, and his failure in a straight romance is highlighted in seasons three and four. Chekhov's painting of season 4 seems to solidify a gay Mike.

Elmax and Ronance as endgame options not only have no lead up but are also mean spirited towards Lucas and Vickie. Elmax gets together, breaking up Lumax, which has been built up since season two, and Lucas is supposed to be okay with this because????? Ronance get's together, effectively writing off a queer character that the show had introduced, and she can't even fulfill the reason she exists in the first place? Rockie is not the most well developed relationship out there, but it's the one that the show has decided to go for. Maybe Ronance could work, in an alternate universe where the show actually wrote that in.

For those that argue that both Max and Nancy are queer I simply... disagree. And you can disagree with me too, we'll both just agree to disagree. I'm not against headcanons, which are usually harmless, but also usually driven by the desires of the headcanon-er and less so the canon of the show. Which again, is fine, but it's also these headcanons which are being used to drive an argument for actual show canon. Usually the argument for any character being queer that wasn't already listed in canon rests solely on vibes, not any concrete evidence that may suggest actual attraction to the same sex.

More substantial evidence usually comes when someone applies a queer lens to a certain character, but an interpretation can be different from authorial intent. And sometimes, the viewer may be so focused on the metaphorical, that they fail to see the literal.

I do think that you could easily apply a queer lens to El's story. Her story is about, in her words, "not belonging," in society, having to remain in hiding, and deviating from feminine norms. I can easily see how you can derive a queer message from this, but all of the traits listed above are a result of her having powers and being raised in a lab, not being attracted to the same sex. Metaphor alone cannot prove that she likes girls.

Going back to Nancy, Nancy's romantic options are between Jonathan and Steve, although the show seems to make it clear that it's going with Jonathan in the end, what with Jancy holding hands at the end of season 4. Steve get's brought up in conversation between the two, alluding two some unresolved tension that's likely to be brought up in season 5, and Robin is... at the high school with Vickie. That is the end of the season establishing the arcs and romances for the final season.

"Gay people didn't exist in the 80's."

That's an argument on the opposite end of things that just isn't true, although I've also heard the counter for this argument, that gay people did in fact exist in the 80's, as evidence that everyone is gay. I'm not really here to argue whether or not gay people existed in the 80's (they did) I'm just here to argue what I think the canon of the show is presenting.

That being said, the show taking place in the 80's is still significant. It may not be a hyperrealistic depiction of the 80's, but the show does seem to understand the idea that at that time, it was very difficult for gay people come out and to start relationships. It's the reason that Robin can't just go up to Vickie and ask her out, and it's the reason that Will can't just say that the painting is from him. It's the reason why Mike hasn't quite yet left his relationship with El and accepted himself. It's the reason why Rockie has to discreetly flirt through peanut butter sandwiches. A character who hasn't had queerness built into their plot, or a relationship that has no buildup, isn't suddenly going to become canon in the last season.

I was talking about this once with a friend who used the show Only Murders in the Building as an example. In the shows second season, Selena Gomez's character is revealed to be bisexual and dates a character that Cara Delevingne plays for most of the season. The show doesn't build up to her character being bisexual, she doesn't come out as such, the other characters don't make a big deal out of it, she just is. So why can this show do something like that but Stranger Things can't?

Well, Only Murders is a show that takes place in present day, and is a light-hearted comedy (albeit with murder). A character suddenly being bisexual with no set up makes sense for the tone that the show has established and when it takes place. Stranger Things takes place in the 80's and establishes within it's first season and maintains it throughout that gay people get killed and are seen as social pariahs.

It's not that I don't understand where the desire to have more characters be queer comes from, especially characters that people already like and relate to. I don't think it's harmful to think that these characters are queer, I'm making an argument purely with regard to authorial intent and the actual outcome of the show. Again, feel free to disagree with me and continue to do whatever you want, these are just some thoughts that I have had on my mind for a while and wanted to put out.

#well this has been sitting in the drafts for a while #sorry to focus on the female characters #i would write something about steve but i also just. dont even tough that side with a ten foot poll #anyways #dont feel obligated to read all of this this is a post for me than anyone else #stranger things #conclusion is a little flimsy didnt really know what else to add or how to wrap it up tbh

[w1ldthoughts]

Social Media QB

Anon Requested

Disclaimer: this is a work of FICTION, the characters are fictionalized versions of real life situations and real people. It’s all based on my imagination.

Masterlist

The reputation of the Chargers social media team was unmatched. They are known for being funny and up to date on all memes and pop culture references while also showcasing players’ personalities. That alone made you apply and this past year on the job had really been a once in a lifetime experience. Working with Megan and the crew was a daily adventure and you were becoming more and more comfortable calling the guys your friends. It even got to a point where you didn’t even call them by their names anymore.

Keenan was usually “slay” or “slayer.” Mike was always “Mike Dub”, Michael Davis was “Vato” and your favorite nickname was definitely calling Justin “Sunshine.” At first it was a Remember the Titans reference but it became a lifestyle. Everything and everyone revolves around the sun and that’s exactly what it felt like when you were at work. All of the players were important and special but you could just feel the energy in the room shift when Justin was there. It was palpable, it almost took your breath away sometimes.

Off camera he was goofy, funny and had this uncanny ability to make the world stand still for a bit, even just for a few fleeting moments where it felt like you two were the only ones in the room. But then reality would hit and you were reminded that you work for the team and he’d never see you in that way, he was just nice to everyone he encountered. But on camera? It was all fun and games. There was a running joke, mostly based on his real feelings, that Justin hated cameras. He couldn’t stand being the center of attention or having people perceive him so he avoided the social media team altogether when phones were pointed in his direction.

But sometimes, a rarity, you were able to get him on camera, even if it was just for a split second. The two of you reviewed the questions he was going to be asked before their Hot Ones appearance and there was ALWAYS a discussion, more like subtle begging if you all were going to have him participate in any content.

“We need Justin for this new segment we’re doing, so you’re gonna have to talk to him.” Megan sighs, grabbing her Stanley cup that was sitting on the counter. She’d just finished editing a video where she and her assistant put fart spray on the tiny mic and could still feel the rancid scent on her clothes.

You were going through photos taken during practice earlier that morning and deciding which ones to post. “Why do I have to do it?”

Lorren and Allie giggle in the corner, shaking their heads. “You cannot be serious right now y/n,” Lorren gives you a pointed look.

“What?”

“We all know you and Justin have a thing for each other. Even if you won’t admit to us…or yourself. It’s pretty obvious.”

You raised your head up from your laptop, staring at them while also wracking your brain trying to figure out when your innocent crush had become so painfully obvious. If the girls knew, then Justin had probably somehow caught on and the thought of that made you want to dig a hole right outside on the practice field and never come out. “Is—am I that easy to read?”

“No one blames you,” Megan runs a loving hand on your shoulder. “And I’m sure you’ve been trying so hard to hide your feelings that you haven’t noticed that he’s doing an even worse job of hiding his massive crush on you.”

The look on your face sends the room into a fit of laughter. “We’re being serious. The way he looks at you and acts around you. Anyone can see he’s into you friend.”

You weren’t convinced, “I need an example.”

“Okay fine,” Lorren stands up to prepare a demonstration. “He wasn’t ready to put the mics on when he was mic’d up until you walked over and helped him get the mic in the perfect spot in his pads. And then he wore the friendship bracelet for six weeks because you handed it to him.”

Allie pipes up to put in her two cents. “And let’s not forget when he had you driving him around the golf tournament and kicked Zion to the curb. There’s no way all of those are just a coincidence.”

“Fine. I’ll go ask him if he’ll shoot the video for us but I’m not going to lose my job because of a meaningless crush on the starting quarterback.”

You waited around for the guys to leave treatment after practice and caught up with him on his way out. “Hey Sunshine, quick question for you.”

His cheeks turn a light shade of pink and he gives you a small tight-lipped smile. “What’s up?”

“I need you to do me a huge favor and be in this tik tok. It’s a short game and it’ll only take like 15 minutes.”

His deadpan face and disappointed dad sigh has you practically begging, saying “please” in your finest sing-song tone.

“Fine, I’ll do it.” You knew he’d crack, he always did. “On one condition. You also have to participate.”

You hold your hand out and he engulfs it with his much larger one. “You’ve got yourself a deal Herbert.”

“Okay the rules of the game are simple,” Megan begins from behind her phone screen before hitting record, “we’re going to give you these Canadian snacks and you’ll rate them on a scale from 1 to 10. One being it’s awful I’ll never touch that again and 10 being a solid snack that you’d eat everyday if given the opportunity.”

You and Justin nod, diving in on everything from the ketchup chips to the toffee. The video didn’t take long as promised and the quarterback went about the rest of his day with no further distractions.

In your office a few days later on the team’s off day, you were contemplating your life. Maybe you should take a step back from him so people didn’t get the wrong idea. Sure, your coworkers were convinced the crush was mutual but what if he was just being nice? He was always so focused on football and making the most out of every opportunity why in the world would he waste time flirting with a social media manager? It just made no sense. Instead of continuing to run a million imaginary scenarios in your mind you packed up your stuff and tried heading out to the parking lot. Even after all this time you still struggled to maneuver all the twists and turns of the building and somehow found yourself walking past the quarterback room. You intended to just keep walking but he was in there alone and called out your name when he saw you.

“What are you doing here? I didn’t think anyone would be in the building today.” His bright eyes staring down at you made your heart feel like it was beating out of your chest. You desperately needed to get it together.

“I came in to finish up a few things but I’m heading out now. What are you doing? I think you’ve watched enough film to last you a couple lifetimes.” That gets a light chuckle out of him and he shakes his head, the two of you knowing that his quest for perfection would never allow him to believe he’s watched enough film. “Thank you for shooting that video the other day. The fans are gonna love it, they’re always begging us to get you on camera.”

“No problem, anything for you.” He clears his throat after whispering the last part, desperately hoping that you didn’t hear it. Even though you definitely did. You should go home for the day and leave him alone in the office so he can get back to work. You should stop staring at his lips that look so soft and just begging to be kissed. He should turn around and get back to the playbook and the computer but here he is, standing still right in front of you.

You’re just here, waiting for some to rip the carpet out from under you, to fall on your face, for someone to tell you that this isn’t actually happening. The space between your bodies diminishes significantly, so much so that you can smell the Dr. Squatch Birchwood Breeze radiating off of him. It’s intoxicating and you swallow the fear in your gut and ignore all of the common sense thoughts plaguing your mind, allowing you to feel.

The kiss is tentative at first, he pulls back slightly, whispering if it’s okay to keep going as you felt his breath against your lips. You don’t respond but instead pull him in closer, hearing a satisfied husky moan from him as he allowed your tongue access to his. His right palm rests against your cheek until he’s tilting your head up ever so slightly to deepen the embrace and he picks you up, holding on for dear life while closing and locking the door behind you. It was so much more than he imagined, these feelings that he’d been pushing aside were being confronted and magnified by the second. This innocent crush that you had on him were genuine, real feelings that created a deep ache in your bones, actively being soothed with his hands all over you as the two of you made out like helpless teenagers.

You didn’t think you’d have the strength to tear yourself away from him…until his phone rings. He ignores it the first time but it’s all you can think about by the fifth ring.

“Answer it,” you whisper breathlessly as he places you back on your feet. A thousand unspoken apologies are painted on his face as he pulls his phone out of his pocket. He keeps the call short and sweet but the look of devastation is clear when he hangs up. “You have to go don’t you?”

“I’m so sorry. We can—we need to talk about this I know. And I promise we will I just, I need to take care of this.” He doesn’t want to leave, not like this. Even if he knows you understand. Justin presses a kiss to the side of your head and whispers another “I’m so sorry” leaving you in the room to think about what just happened.

You walk around the empty parking lot until you reach your car, letting out a deep sigh at the thought of what the conversation with him is going to look like after this. You need to be mentally prepared for good news, bad news and everything in between.

He is the sun after all. And sometimes when you stand too close, you might get burned. And maybe, just maybe, you’d avoid the burn altogether and bask in the warmth as long as you can.

#Justin Herbert #justin herbert fluff #justin herbert imagine #Justin Herbert x reader #justin herbert fanfic

[insomniactalks]

Gonna drop this quick and run. But hear me out. I will start by saying that Ricky may very well have genuine feelings for Gina. I'm not dismissing that. I just couldn't help but notice somethings about Ricky's reactions here:

As soon as EJ and Gina start fighting in 3.05, Ricky immediately covers his ears (kinda like a child does when their parents are fighting at home). I get the feeling he was used to his parents fighting a lot when he was younger, and his instinct was to cover his ears. He also looks at both EJ and Gina in 3.06 during the canoe scene. I think it's at that moment that he realizes just how much EJ and Gina truly care about one another, and how much they're fighting for their relationship. Thinking back to S2, he was also fighting really hard for his rela with Nini. But he learned to let her go because that was for the best. He actually gets that advice from his mom, who he understandably holds a lot of resentment towards. I could be wrong, but I read his expression in the 2nd gif as someone who has seen his own parents fail to save their relationship, but sees two people, despite all their recent tensions, still fighting for their relationship.

Earlier that day, Ricky comes face to face with his dad's new girlfriend and is presented with a gift from Mike via Miss Jenn:

I definitely think Ricky still feels uncomfortable at the idea of his teacher and father dating, even if he's trying to act like he's okay with it. When he receives the gift, he's not exactly happy about it. It's sort of surprises him, but not in a good way. Perhaps it's a not so subtle reminder that things have really changed for him back home. Later that day, he sees EJ and Gina trying their best to save their relationship, then hears this from Jet that night:

Jet, being "little Ricky" and all (3.02), admits that he feels like it's his fault Madison and Maddox broke up. Does that not sound like how Ricky feels about himself in terms of his parents marriage? Perhaps he also blames himself for the downfall of his parents relationship. He couldn't save it or fix it. Instead of dealing with his own problems, Ricky is throwing himself into Jet and Maddox's issues to try to save their relationship. I think the majority of Ricky's issues in terms of romantic relationships always goes back to his parents, which they still haven't fully addressed. Three seasons in a row, and Ricky's main storyline revolves around his love life. If there's any chance for Ricky to truly move forward and find the path to true happiness, this season has to end with Ricky single and not ready to mingle and being okay with that. He hasn't taken any significant amount of time for himself to himself. I also think it's difficult for him to see EJ and Gina have the kind of summer he was expecting to have with Lily. While I don't think Lily broke his heart, I do believe she broke his trust. He even blames himself for why things fell apart because he said "How could I be so stupid?" in 3.01 during his breakup w/ Lily. He shows up to camp and the first image he sees are a genuinely happy and loving couple (Portwell). It seems like Ricky wants what they have because he was expecting to have a fun summer in a new relationship. Jet's line above definitely hit a nerve for Ricky because I think it reminds him of how things fell apart for his parents. In order to escape the pain he's feeling, Ricky tries to "fix" the relationship problems around him. One last thing, I don't think it's a coincidence that 3.06 is the first time this season that Ricky's acknowledged his past with Nini (also in conversation with Jet). In Ricky's eyes, he's had two failed relationships in a short amount of time, and to overcompensate for that, he tries to fix everyone else's relationship problems instead. I'm wondering what the last two episodes have in store for his character arc, because so much of it so far has been romance-based. For this character to actually progress in a positive way, he has to learn that it's okay to not be okay and that true happiness doesn't come from being in a relationship.

#hsmtmts #hsmtmts s2 #hsmtmts s3 #hsmtmts analysis #hsmtmts speculation #hsmtmts jet #hsmtmts maddox #ricky bowen #gicky #ej caswell #gina porter #portwell #hsmtmts lily #nini salazar roberts #rini #mike bowen #lynne bowen #miss jenn #ricky bowen meta #thanks for reading!

[katlandry]

In honour of Noah getting the first 3 scripts for Season 5, this is my Season 5 bucket list (I may be very early so this is my early one) I’ll try to make it as realistic as possible 😭

- Nancy survives.

This is the number one thing I need to happen, I will not be able to handle it if she dies

- I’m also very much on the side of I want everyone to survive.

Stranger Things is very much about the relationships between all of the characters, and it might not be the main part of the show but it is an important one and it’s what makes Stranger Things so great. I think it would massively suck if they were to kill any of the Hopper-Byers family after everything they’ve been through and Hopper losing anyone would just confirm his theory that he’s a “curse”.

- Ronance hug.

I need this like I need air. Nancy Wheeler needs a hug and I need Robin to be the one to give it to her.

- More Ronance scenes.

I mean obviously I ship Ronance so of course I want more scenes of them together, BUT I also really love their friendship. After Nancy lost Barb, Robin is the first girl she’s befriended that didn’t have romantic intentions and I think their friendship is really something special.

- Nancy to finally get closure with Barb and realise it wasn’t her fault

I realise she kind of got closure in S2, but I don’t think she really did. She clearly still blames herself, and what happened shaped her into who she is today. And we know she never really spoke to anyone about what happened because when she tried to talk to Steve he brushed her off. So I think she needs someone to tell her it wasn’t her fault.

- Nancy/Robin/Jonathan/Steve/Argyle team up.

This would be the team up of the CENTURY.

- Nancy/El scenes

I’ve needed this since S1. I think they’re quite similar in some ways and it’d be so nice to see them have some scenes together

- Jargyle scenes

I mean… they’re literally hilarious together. Imagine Nancy, Robin and Steve having to put up with high Jargyle 😭

- Not St*ncy endgame

Okay. Don’t hate me, and I’m sure this is pretty well known by now but I’m very much anti St*ncy and I’m not even sorry about it. Those two getting back together would feel like ten steps backwards and a dishonour to both of their characters. Steve’s character for the past two seasons has revolved around finding a girlfriend and I think he needs to realise that he doesn’t need a girlfriend and it’s okay to be on your own. It would also be a very misogynistic ending for Nancy. I could talk about this forever but I’ll just leave it at that. 😭

- JOPPER DATE!

Pretty sure David Harbour already confirmed this but I’m so excited to see Jopper in a relationship!!

- Mike being a complete menace to society and Robin getting to experience it

I mean, Robin hasn’t spent much time with Mike yet and I just think him being the little shit he is would be so funny for Robin to witness. I can just imagine her turning to Nancy and saying “You’re related to him?”

- Will/Robin scenes

This is an obvious one, but I think talking to Robin would help Will a LOT. I don’t know how likely it is to happen but I think it’d be really nice for Will to know he’s not on his own.

- LUMAX DATE!

I NEED IT. They arranged it last season and Max DIED so it’s only right they get their date in Season 5!!

- More Erica

Not much to say about this, we all need more Erica.

- More Hopper-Byers family

El finally has a family and somewhere she belongs, Hopper just came back from the dead. I need this family to be happy more than anything.

- If not Byler endgame, I need to see Will accept himself (at least somewhat) and finally be happy.

I like both Mileven and Byler, and honestly my opinion on who should be endgame changes on a daily basis based on the fans lmao. It would be awesome to see Byler endgame, but I would like to see Will accept himself and maybe come out to his mom??

- Nancy & Mike hug.

This has to happen. It has to. And not right before one of them dies either. Give me more Wheeler siblings. Perhaps a parallel to S1 when Nancy rushes out of the Byers to hug Mike but this time Mike rushes to hug Nancy??

#nancy wheeler #stranger things #stranger things 4 #ronance #nancy stranger things #natalia dyer #robin buckley #st4 #robin stranger things #maya hawke #steve harrington #mike wheeler #will byers #st5 #joyce byers #el hopper #lucas sinclair #max mayfield #dustin henderson #this is all i can think of atm #i’m sure there’s more tho #i’m so scared for how it’ll end ngl #the way most of these are nancy related #I NEED HER TO BE A FINAL GIRL

[starsarefire824]

Everyone are having doubts do you still believe in byler endgame and if you do how you think will be? Not what do you wants but what really will happens knowing the duffer and how they write the show.

Hey anon, thank you for the ask!

As far as Byler goes, I'm still at the same point I've been this entire time...I honestly and truly believe that the writing has hinted at, suggested, alluded to it being real. I h lol ave personally been on the "wrong" side of a different major fandom (which I won't mention here)---ridiculed, called crazy, obsessive etc--to then have everything we had claimed from the beginning be proven true in the final act. If you want to know what I'm talking about you can probably figure it out from my profile or you can message me and I'll go on that rant in private lol.

Either way, my point is.....everything that is happening in this fandom...mimics that one entirely. It is a fandom that is dominated by a generally male, white, hetero-normative point of view. And so I think it's easy to lose hope, it's easy to give in to those people telling you that you're crazy for seeing what you're seeing.

But what it comes down to in the end is, most of us have been here since season 2. Most of us have been noticing the hints for years. And after season three, I'm not really sure what people are looking at if they are not seeing the complicated relationship that Mike has with El and Will. It is a canon fact that he cannot balance them emotionally. When one is in his life, the other is out. Season 3 proved that when they are both in his life at the same time, he cannot make it work. When he is paying attention to El, he is hurting Will. When he is paying attention to Will, he is hurting El. And this all comes to a head in season 4.

And season 4 is interesting to me because once again, El is (after a few episodes) quickly removed from Will and Mike's immediate story line. Mike, once again, ends up with Will in situations that make them work together. Situations that make them be emotionally vulnerable with each other. Situations that allow them to become closer.

I firmly believe that there is a reason, besides Mike being emotionally stunted by his family, that he can't say "i love you" to El. I think that the writers' had specific intentions when they wrote Mike's "love confession" to El as a direct response to Will's emotions. I firmly believe that if I was supposed to be rooting for El and Mike to be together, I as an audience member, would have been given a private, softly lit, romantically coded emotional scene between Mike and El post "2 days later". But we didn't. The softly lit, emotional, intimate moment we got? Was with Will.

Furthermore, El and Will have been directly paralleled since season one and since season 2 both of their storylines have directly revolved around Mike. And one character, Will, has been the one that has been show to need and want Mike in the way that he needs to be needed and wanted. Will has been the character that specifically benefits from Mike's attention and love. El's journey has always been for herself. It has always been figuring out where she belongs in the world and claiming her autonomy from Brenner (and Henry and many others).

As for how I believe the Duffer's will accomplish this? I have as good a guess as the rest of you. I am just a humble fan. But from the context clues that we've been given throughout the show....I have a hunch that El and Will will discover some sort of connection between the two of them. This connection will probably directly relate to the pull they feel towards Mike. I think that El will continue her journey from season 4 of self-discovery and standing on her own two feet, rejecting the men (people) around her who tell her they know what she wants/needs/desires. I think that Will will have his "coming of age". He will finally accept himself for who he is. I think it will be revealed that Will has some sort of direct connection to either the Upside Down or Henry himself. I think that he is the "cure" or the "key" to healing what has been broken. I really love the "wonder twin" idea that Will and El will work together to defeat Vecna.

And finally, I think that Mike, the knight, the paladin, the heart of the party....he'll finally realize where his heart truly lies. And Will, understanding that his love is reciprocated, that their love is true. I really think it will, in some way, (even if it's one small working part in the huge machine that is Stranger Things), help defeat the evil that has reigned over Hawkins for too long.

Maybe I'm too much of a romantic. But I'm gonna continue to believe it until I'm proven wrong. I will be the first to admit defeat as it comes, but for me....

There are just too many parallels, hints, subtext etc. for me to believe anything else at this point. I don't think the Duffer Brothers are pulling our leg, I don't believe they are trying to queerbait us, I don't believe they made this show for the people of Reddit and Facebook. I truly think, when they said it was for the "outsiders" and the "misunderstood" they meant it. And imo, Byler is a real part of that that will be made clear in the final act.

Let's hope we're right! <3

#byler #byler ask #stranger things #stranger things 5 #asks #will byers #mike wheeler

[thelostsisters]

stranger things analysis/theory: the upside down and trauma

so i posed a theory about how the UD slowly killing henry, who falsely believes he going to “transcend” his human body. but this theory goes beyond just the visuals of the upside down, and that’s what i’m going to go into here (specifically regarding henry but also i’m also going to touch on will as well)

basically: the upside down is connected to trauma

…and my fave underrated girl kali unknowingly predicted this, as well as the fall of hawkins/overtaking by the upside down

the upside down is a toxic wasteland, and now it’s growing, spreading into hawkins and rotting it’s environment. and if it keeps spreading unchecked, it’s going to kill everyone/everything

kali uses these terms to describe how bottling up your emotions and refusing to confront past traumas will emotionally wreck a person. she then goes on to encourage el to harness her negative emotions and the memories of her past that trigger them to enhance her powers—advice that is eerily similar to the advice henry gives el in the lab

henry and kali have a lot of similarities (their powers, being motivated by revenge, this advice they give el, the spider imagery, being the only 2 numbers to befriend el in the lab). there’s several reasons why this might be. first is it’s that they essentially recycled the character traits of an unfairly hated woc character onto a white male character (which is definitely probable to be the truth). or, hopefully, it’s beyond just a coincidence, and either kali is going to return to outsmart him (pls i’m begging you netflix PLEASE) and/or… my theory here is correct. bc the lost sister and season 4 also have a similar theme of confronting one’s past.

season 4 heavily revolves around the idea of confronting one’s past traumas, opening up about repressed memories. we see this majorly with el & the nina project and with vecna’s victims (and especially through max), but it’s also presented in smaller scale moments: hopper opening up to dimitri, victor creel sharing his story with nancy and robin, will talking to mike about the fear of being honest about certain things with the people you love (and then later revealing to the audience his feelings for mike by masking it as his take on el’s feelings). but let’s go back to vecna’s curse. vecna (and henry as a child) forces his victims to confront some sort of past trauma or something about themselves that they feel guilty about and/or have repressed (or attempted to)… tell me this isn’t extremely similar to the scene with kali, el, and dr. brenner

but vecna is a huge hypocrite, in my opinion. because henry has proven to be extremely repressed on multiple occasions. hear me out okay: when el tries to sympathize with him in 4x09, he rejects her idea that brenner is the reason why he’s a “monster,” instead placing the blame on el for banishing him to the UD (further showing how revenge-motivated he is). during henry’s monologue to el/vecna’s visions shown to nancy in 4x07/8, he glosses over his time at the lab after spending a good amount of time talking about his history at the creel house, where he lived for only a month. he was at the lab for 20 years, and yet all there was to show to nancy was him getting tattooed and the aftermath of the massecre, and really all he tells el is how brenner wanted to control and later recreate him

this could totally just be the writers trying to show us that noooo henry is evil and so nothing has ever affected his psychological state whatsoever… but this is what jamie campbell bower (who had a pretty huge role in helping develop the character) has said about henry:

…so the exact opposite of what henry insists about himself. also note how so much of henry’s speech about all the stuff he hates in the world is a direct reflection of the life he’s been forced into living at the lab: constantly waiting for it all to be over, living out his life as if acting in a play, “seconds, minutes, hours, days, years, decades” (he was in brenner’s care for 2 decades)

and THIS is the duffer brothers talking about henry’s backstory that will be addressed in season 5:

note the phrase “how can i mold this character,” referring of course to brenner and henry. vecna claims brenner was unable to “shape” him (he also shapes the particles in the upside down into the image of the mindflayer, and something/someone (my bet is on will byers) shapes the upside down into a reflection of hawkins. interesting connection imo)

but back to the relationship between henry and brenner. to suggest that spending 20 years of one’s life, from childhood to early adulthood, could have no psychological effect on you is unrealistic if you ask me. henry doesn’t want to admit it, but dr. brenner and his life at the lab greatly affected him, but admitting to such is to admit to what he likely views as human weakness: being controlled and influenced by an authority figure who abused him, when he so badly wants to be in control of himself and his world (these posts do a great job analyzing the experiences henry and the other kids went through at the lab. they suffered brutal emotional, psychological, physical, and medical abuse, which have lifelong effects on a person)

now we also know that a big part of how the evil in hawkins will be defeated is going to have to do with will. i’ve seen other people theorize about will having powers, and the idea that he will have some sort of healing abilities seems pretty realistic (based on Will the Wise being a cleric).

healing… healing from trauma… are you picking up what i’m putting down?

the key to defeating the UD lies in henry’s inability to confront and subsequently heal from his past trauma

as long as henry relies on others’ traumas, forcing them to confront them before brutally murdering them, the upside down will continue to thrive, and the world will continue to suffer. he believes he will destroy humanity to them be able to “fix” the world as he so desires, but as the UD has infected and rotted his human form, it will continue to spread, not just throughout the main dimension, but in him as well. and eventually, as put by kali’s dr. brenner, it will kill him

the duffer brothers hinted in a recent interview about the potential humanity in vecna’s character. i don’t think this means a redemption arc for him, but rather that this humanity is going to be a huge part of how he and the upside down can finally be defeated. i think the fact that vecna was once a regular human rather than always being some otherworldly entity is a major reason as to why he wasn’t defeated in st4; they were fighting him using the same tactics they’ve always used against the upside down’s creatures, but vecna isn’t just some creature. another reason they couldn’t defeat him is because he is interconnected with the upside down (dude literally has UD vines/tentacles going into his skin 🥴); you can’t defeat vecna without defeating the upside down, and vise-versa

and the upside down is connected to trauma; it feeds off of it. vecna chooses his victims based on their traumas, and this gives him the energy to open gates. the comparison of kali’s explanation of festering pain correlates with the way the upside down operates and spreads. and in this post i talked about how henry corrupted the UD’s ecosystem; now that it’s gotten a taste of humanity and the traumas that come with it, it doesn’t want to go back to whatever it was sustaining itself on before. it’s like… a cat that’s been fed expensive food and now refuses to eat anything else. henry is the vessel that supplies the UD with it’s never ending food supply through his victims (and the immense untouched traumas that dwell within him, festering and fueling his resentment and desire for revenge) so in order to stop the UD, the UD will have to be cut off from its food supply. and i think this isn’t currently possible without his cooperation, as henry is incredibly strong and resilient, and simply killing him themselves will be an extremely difficult, perhaps impossible, feat. and, no, i don’t think this means he’s “redeeming” himself per say, but it is a little similar to billy’s “redemption” (which i and many people don’t view as such, but the show runners seem to like to call it that). the difference is that henry is not just a vessel for the mindflayer like billy was; he’s a vessel for the entire realm, and as of right now he is largely in control of it.

so maybe in order to keep the UD from destroying everyone, both the world and henry himself, henry has to give in to his humanity, the part of himself that he wishes to detach from due to his nihilistic view on humans, a part of himself that feels weak and deeply flawed. the upside down will likely kill him regardless, but by submitting himself to his human side it will allow our protagonists to stop the spread of the upside down.

(note that me thinking henry himself is going to have to play a role in defeating the UD is NOT me trying to redeem/justify henry and his actions/goals, but specifically because of the connection between the upside down and repressed trauma. brute-force killing vecna is too simple for the narrative. plus i don’t think him being evil means the canonical abuse he suffered should be tossed aside or made light of; they decided to write a villain who’s an abuse victim, so they should rightfully deal with that in the story)

tldr; rip henry creel you would have loved going to fucking therapy. and kali our underrated genius queen predicted the future of the upside down if it continues to live on

one last thing i couldn’t really figure out where to fit in: i think will healing from his own trauma and insecurities is also going to play a huge role in saving hawkins.

will is going to be a major character in season 5, and it’s been confirmed that his story is going to be a coming of age story intertwined with his supernatural connections. in season 4 they very clearly hinted at his struggles with his sexuality and feelings for mike, and his scene with jonathan in 4x09 sets up his journey towards self-acceptance and coming to terms with his feelings. growing up in a time period where homophobia is rampant and normalized, as well as his past experiences with his father and bullies at school; constantly being made fun of for something he wasn’t even aware of in himself, being called slurs by his peers and his own dad surely had a huge impact on him psychologically.

surely vecna is going to use will’s past as a way to try to manipulate him into joining him, and in order to combat this he will have to (similar to max) confront and overcome the hurt and trauma he’s suffered in order to push forward. will has spent four seasons of being miserable, and it’s going to be so refreshing finally seeing him get the chance to stand up for himself because he truly deserves the world. and if this has a supernatural impact as well? tell me that isn’t going to be amazing to watch

#here it is… my pride and joy. my baby #i’ve edited and reread this so many times it’s not even funny #but it feels so right. ESPECIALLY the connection between kali/the lost sister and the upside down/season 4’s ending #as always if there’s anything i got incorrect feel free to let me know! #stranger things #stranger things 4 #stranger things theory #stranger things analysis #stranger things meta #henry creel #st vecna #vecna stranger things #001 stranger things #kali prasad #will byers #the upside down

[bugsbenefit]

i don’t know if anyone has pointed it out yet but it’s not leaving me alone.

so s5 is supposed to be a return to form of s1 meaning there will be some parallels, either plot wise, character arc wise, references, etc. (s4 also had a bunch of refs to s2, literal horseshoe narrative, bla bla we know we know)

right, so looking back, very big part of ST is the way the story is told through multiple povs, which makes sense since the show has an assembly cast. but just like any other season, s1 isn’t focused on all the characters equally it has clear main characters. (like how s4 focuses on characters like, El, Max, Dustin etc. while the whole Cali crew has Very little actual plot relevancy).

and right off the bat after Will goes missing, E1 makes clear which characters are going to Tell us the story: we have Mike, almost everything we see the kids do is from his perspective. then, after S1E2 El becomes the other primary kid pov (she stands out as only getting a pov from E2 onwards, since she only shows up in the woods at the end of E1), we see her past at the lab via flashbacks and her general perception of the world outside the lab. meanwhile the teens have their own plot and two primary povs as well, Jonathan and Nancy. first revolving separately around Will and Barb and later merging into the same goal they work on together. the same goes for the adults were we get Joyce and Hopper, at first investigating separately and then ending the season going into the UD together.

there’s three overall plot lines (kids, teens, adults) that end up merging in the end. (Will is his own party here in the UD who makes appearances for all groups occasionally but who’s pov we don’t get. however, he’s still THE central character that’s started the whole plot to begin with even without us seeing his perspective)

all other characters that are in the show by then get a different treatment to those main focus characters. we only see their povs when none of the other main narrating voices are present. (e.g. Dustin taking over as a focus only Once and it’s after Mike jumps off of a cliff and we aren’t supposed to know if he’s okay yet (this season does him dirty poor guy). Lucas going on his sick solo mission where he abandons both Mike and El which gives him a few minutes of screentime that’s centered around him and him only. or even Brenner, who’s pov we actually get 3 times this season when he’s alone and evilly stalking and scheming and we have no other way to see him be silly and evil than to hard cut to him)

(unrelated tangent but Steve is pretty funny actually because we get his pov multiple times but he’s COMPLETELY removed from the plot, he doesn’t even know something weird is going on. he’s just busy trying to save his relationship with Nancy the whole time and doesn’t even catch a Glimpse of the supernatural hell demon haunting the town. until it tries to eat him in the finale. which also only happens because he wanted to go see Nancy again and ran into the trap... this guy is on a completely separate mission the whole season. everyone is living sci-fie mystery and Steve still thinks he’s in a coming of age romance movie... the lad is going through it this season he’s so clueless)

so TLDR of all of this bc it’s really just a general observation of the way S1 is told which might be boring if you watched it recently:

season one stands out by having 6 main POVs: Mike, El, Nancy, Jonathan, Joyce, and Hopper

right

sooo. now why...

that’s literally just all our s1 povs. nicely lined up and even split into three way kids, teens, adults formula. the only difference being that Will is actually included here, standing with Mike, instead of being stranded somewhere in the hell dimension.

like... that feels INCREDIBLY intentional. they even went out of their way to drag Nancy (and Nancy only) away from the rest of the Hawkins crew who went to the school - just so she could stand on the hill with them here. it’s those 7 characters for a reason, the narrative goes out of it’s way to make sure all of them are here. and all of them just happen to be the exact same characters who Started narrating this whole story to us?

(also sorry but did they just abandon Argyle out in the woods picking mushrooms for this?? i get he isn’t part of the og gang but Damn, just because they want to go stand on a hill doesn’t mean they can just fuck off when the evil spores start raining from the sky. they literally switched Argyle out with Nancy for this)

if i were to make a guess, I’d say s5 is going to have them be the main pov’s just like in s1 to close the story off in a circle. (even the narration would be part of the horseshoe narrative then lmao)

and that would also make sense for the characters. literally half of them were trapped in the stoner van for the whole of s4. they’ve been excluded from the plot for a reason and it gave others like Max and Lucas the room to shine as the main characters. i think the next season will have the same 6 povs closing the show that started it, with the exception that Will is now part ALSO a part of these povs. (the main character, according to what the Duffers say, even)

I’ve seen people say this shot looks like group ups for s5. and i agree. the different plot strands we’re going to get will definitely be centered around these 3 groups (maybe 4? El standing on her own could mean a Lot here, she could potentially fill a role similar to Will for example, where he would occasionally pop in with all of the 3 parties and make appearances everywhere. so it could also be 3 groups but El swings around between them?).

but yeah anyways. i’m calling it now. those 7 are going to be the main povs of s5.

#literally rolling back into town just wanting to narrate and then seeing Hawkins like DAMN that's what i'm working with? #the town's FUCKED #but seriously it being these exact 7 characters is SO intentional especially since we're already being TOLD how s5 will parallel s1 #stranger things theory #st5 predictions #st analysis #st5 speculation #stranger things #mike wheeler #will byers #el hopper #jonathan byers #nancy wheeler #joyce byers #jim hopper

[moonlayl]

Am I the only one who doesn’t understand why Will has so many fans, and why so many people want him to be very relevant in the final season?

I have no hate for the character, but he never really had a personality, or motives, which made him uninteresting (to me, personally)

Like even from the beginning, he was the one who got kidnapped, yes, but we rarely saw him that whole season. He was just most of the character’s motives that season. He himself, wasn’t much of a character. I think he had a total of like 2 minutes of screentime. Outside of that light scene with Joyce, and him trying to defend himself using a rifle, we didn’t get to see what kind of person he was. The season was about everyone else.

In season 2, we get to learn a bit about him at first, but those scenes are just him feeling off and disconnected from everyone (there’s a few scenes dedicated to him) and then he’s mostly just possessed and needs to be saved. This season is probably where he’s most relevant, but he still didn’t get much focus outside of being possessed (at least after the beginning of the season) and the lack of follow up to what he goes through, is what makes me no longer truly care for him as a character.

In season 3, he wants to go back to how things were, and I completely get that, but aside from touching his neck every now and then, he was hardly relevant to the plot, and he didn’t really have much of a character arc (at least not one that seemed important or memorable)

And now in season 4, the writers did him SO dirty and again, he wasn’t very relevant. HE didn’t really do much outside of encouraging Mike to talk to Eleven, and not only was that scene super cringe (I felt like all three of them, Mike, Will, and Jonathan, just lacked any emotion in their scenes and their actors just lost any charm they once had) but it was also so terrible and unfair. But yeah, h unfortunately, was hardly there, didn’t get much screentime, and wasn’t relevant to the plot at all.

Like…I don’t understand “him having powers” (not saying it’s not a cool theory that could totally happen, but I just don’t get why it should happen) in s5.

The writers having him be chosen, instead of just “he was at the wrong place at the wrong time” feels like unnecessary changes made. His relationship to the upside down monsters came from his time there. He could have been influenced when he was there, without realizing it, but… idk he’s just not interesting enough to carry a whole season, which is what that “power” theory implies.

I tried to be interested in his character. I tried to really like him, but I spent seasons waiting for his character to get proper screen time and be relevant, it would be weird to suddenly have him be SO important in the finale, after seasons of the plot revolving around other characters.

I became invested in all those other characters BECAUSE of the way the show was structured around them, it would feel unsatisfying to suddenly be like “actually, will’s super important and will have lots of screen time in the final season!”

(I’m aware these are just theories, but this is just my opinion regarding those theories)

#anti will byers #not really but I know ppl wouldn’t want to see negativity regarding their faves #stranger things #st spoilers #st #stranger things negativity

[munsons-mutiny]

If Steve and Nancy get back together in season 5 it really is death to all the outcasts. The message that outcasts are just stepping stones for the people who can pass as normal. There is nothing exciting about the studious beautiful girl who everyone likes and the most popular boy in school getting together and raising their five kids. It’s not even what Nancy wants, they’ve given her seasons of development showing her career driven aspirations for journalism. Johnathon has taught her to look outside her self and see other peoples stories and perspectives, to look at issues outside of sexism and see what her parents having money has gotten her. He is more than a stepping stone for her worldly development. He should be more than a stepping stone for other characters development, even if he rarely is.

They’ve already shown their disregard with Eddie. Pointlessly dying while the town still hates him, a lesson to show that the outcasts are heroes and shouldn’t be disregarded but definitely don’t get happy endings. They are the lessons for others to look at and say see this is why we shouldn’t judge others, while only ever applying it to people who appear normal. Only ever helping others in ways that are skin deep. Eddie dies a villian, while the white charismatic sociopath dies a hero after leading an all white group to attack children of color. In fact the only other black member of the basketball team dies as a turning point for this fuckers journey into insanity. Cause that’s all the minority groups and outcast characters are good for. Stepping stones.

They showed it again with Will and Robin. Our queer characters, have either of them ever even said it? It’s undeniable but even Robin in her coming out never says it directly. Will is even vaguer. In fact Wills journey with acceptance and fear and loving his best friend is constantly sidelined for a straight romance. For the development of said best friends relationship. His feelings no more than a reason to cheer them on while he’s in the back of every shot devastated. All after a build up that we thought was going to be Mike and El as the platonic soulmates they were always meant to be. Could this all be a setup for next season? Sure. But they’ve fractured any faith I had in them with their continued message of these other people don’t matter. They have to die to prove their hero’s while the others are hero’s by simply existing. By simply making it through.

Heck they showed it even with Max who like Eddie was from a low income household. Who like Eddie was different and going through so much. Max whose development this season was amazing, who was the emotional heart of the show. Who showed that she could be more than a product of the circumstance she found herself in, and who showed the strength to fight through her trauma to help and save people she hardly knew. Who was finally feeling comfortable relying on her friends again. Who was thrown aside to devastate and motivate the rest of group.

Sometimes I think it’s no coincidence nothing truly terrible has happened to Mike, to Nancy, to Dustin, to Steve. They see others suffer and are put in terrible circumstance and definitely have trauma. But all their trauma revolves around things happening to others they care about. And I don’t think these choices were purposeful, I don’t think anyone set out with the goal of making this point. I think these points are just so subconsciously embedded in people that this was the natural consequence of it all. I think most people won’t even notice half of these things. And I think we need to scream them as loud as we can so the Duffer brothers and the writers and the cast and the crew see it and can change it. Can work to realize the message they’re sending and make the final season better. Make the outcasts not have to die to be heroes. Make them more than a stepping stone.

#stranger things volume 2 #stranger things vol 2 #st spoilers #st s4 v2 #spoilers #eddie munson #mike wheeler #will byers #johnathon byers #nancy wheeler #lucas stranger things #lucas sinclair #dustin henderson #robin stranger things #personal rant #tw homophobia #tw racsim #tw classism #steve stranger things #steve harrington #byler

[blue-lambs]

VOL 2 SPOILERS

i am honestly so upset with vol 2. its insane how hard it is to put into words just how bad it was. in terms of character development, growth, and overall storytelling this season is a fucking joke. BUT WHAT IM THE MOST PISSED OFF ABOUT IS HOW THEY TREATED WILL’S CHARACTER!!! post season 2 the characterization of Will has simply become a joke.

SEASON 3

whenever given spoken lines its either to complain or talk about d&d

and when he's not doing that, he does the stupid fucking neck thing, INSTEAD OF BEING RELEVANT TO THE PLOT

for the entirety of seasons 1 & 2 it was clear that characters cared for Will, yet somehow in this season its completely thrown out the window

season 2 had a major plot point with the fact that Will has trauma post-UD which makes sense, YET ITS NEVER BROUGHT UP AGAIN

no doctors visits, no appointments, no therapy, and more importantly no one cares, no one gives a shit about what Will’s been through, when it was shown that his mother, brother, AND MIKE all cared for him deeply

SEASON 4

o m f g, SO INSTEAD OF WILL just characterized as wanting to play d&d, the writers have LITERALLY made his only defining trait being his queerness

WHICH yeah, im happy that its not really just subtext anymore (for those who didnt believe Will was gay), BUT SERIOUSLY to have his entire personality revolve around Mike???

i understand that prior seasons, Will might not have understood his feelings and emotions towards Mike and that maybe once he's moved he realized BUT CMON

he doesnt even get to confirm it or say "im gay" AT ALL, we just got the supportive "ill always love you" from jonathan

these are just my opinions, of course you can disagree with me, im just upset that will hasnt been plot relevant since season 2, its disappointing at this point. especially with how much everyone was hyping this season up.

they could at least given him a coming out scene or something where his OWN emotions weren't being used to push Mike and Eleven down our throats

EDIT : ALSO, FUCK BRENNER

WILL STANS NEVER TRULY WIN (i will say tho, im pretty happy with el and will having some cute siblings moments)

#will byers #will byers deserves better #stranger things #byler #stranger things 4

[stanielman]

So I posted a tiktok (quietly.screaming) about how I don’t want Will to have a traditional coming out scene in s5 and someone commented that bylers only want Will’s storyline to revolve around. Here’s my written response for those interested :)

First of all, in a video about Will’s sexuality obviously it’s going to be in conjunction with Mike. But, to defend this idea, I do think that’s honestly inevitable that the finish of Will’s character arc in season five is going to be surrounding around his relationship with Mike. Now, of course, that’s not to say that I want him to only be doting on Mike like he was in season four, however, I think that finding some sort of closure in their relationship paired with some powerful supernatural fighting will perfectly close out the journey that Will Byers goes on to find his significance in the world.

Since season one, Will’s main character arc has been about finding his importance. There are a lot of references in season one about how it’s “Just Will Byers” that went missing, the whole town doesn’t mourn the loss of Will Byers because it’s not that important to them. They shrug off Joyce to be crazy and they all just accept that this kid. And it’s of course paired with El, like how Will consistently is, who goes missing and has search parties going after her because of how important she is. Then we find out that regardless of Will’s impact in society, he is still important to the people in his life, still important to his mom and to Jonathan and to Mike and, in a different way that is more circulating towards finding their own importance that I can get into later, important to Lucas and Hopper and El.

Then in season two, Will gets challenged with finding out what his importance is. He’s tempted with power from the Mind Flayer, which parallels Henry Creel very well and I think could tease an interesting season five storyline where he’s recruited to join the dark side once again, and struggles with his sense of identity. Until, his mom and Jonathan and Mike remind him what is so special and important about Will Byers. And teehee once again a comparison with El and The Lose Sister episode where she gets to discover who she is.

And then his storylines really get shoved into the Mike Wheeler ring in seasons three and four. In season three, he’s feeling like he’s left behind the group and subsequently ignored, and then that rain scene with Mike solidifies in Will’s head that it’s because he’s different then them all. He’s no longer held to the same importance in their group that he once was because there’s something now that divides them. He will never be like them. But then he realizes that he wants to be like them in season four. He craves what Mike and El have and want it for himself. And, I’m like a broken record here, this once again parallels Will and El together, El is seen to everyone around her as an extremely important superhero. Mike says that she’s better than Suzie because she’s saved the world and that he loves her because she’s his superhero. Will is just some regular guy. He worries that Mike will never see him at the same level of importance that he sees El, which then again links a possibly season five storyline with Will finding importance in working with the mind flayer.

While his character arc this entire time has ebbed a bit, I think that’s it’s safe to say that Mike’s relationship to him is imperative in how his arc will end. It’s of course sad to say, but Will’s existence as a person has been designed to be a reflection of others around him, like we barely see him in the first season and all that we get to know about him are from other people’s opinions. So, while I do want his story and his plot in season five to be separate from Mike and more so on the action side of things to reminisce in the lovely main character Will Byers we got in season two, I still think that Mike is still a great part of his arc.

#wow people still not understanding will's character?? #it's more likely than you think #anyways follow me on tiktok #will byers #byler #mike wheeler #byler analysis

[mikewheely]

i just HATE the fact that people discredit mike’s feelings and often manipulate them into not even loving el but ACTUALLY having been in love with will the entire time… i hate twitter—it’s all i see there :c i have been muting and blocking accs.. and even if, and only IF, that were true (but i mean let’s be serious…), why do you want by*er together so incredibly bad that it would destroy el in the process? the guy she fell for was ACTUALLY in love with her brother the whole time. like…..why do people want that to be true? also, people can respond to that with “El’s existence or feelings shouldn’t surround mike…..blah blah blah” ok,, so how is that different than forcing mike and will into this corner that their characters are solely revolved around each other 🤨 i swear most of these people NEVER make any sense by regurgitating this shit. i’m sorry if i made absolutely no sense and i was just rambling. i felt like ranting because i think y’all would get what i’m trying to say

No, you made complete sense and I get it! They condradict themselves all the time. And also, I think most of those fans just watch ST because of their ship and for finding gay subtext. They would say they really care about Mike, and about Will, but they want El to die even though they know how much Mike loves her (they don't accept it though) and how much Will cares for his sister (like we saw in ST4).

I am sorry but if you want innocent people to die so that your ship can happen, that is really sad and messed up. You will hear a lot of terminologies from them like "representation", "queerbaiting" and all, and just see how all of those have been twisted by them to fit their narrative. Idk but is a person (who happens to be gay) being in love with another person who is already in a relationship, and him being unable to say it to that person is queerbaiting?! If you consider a straight relationship, even Steve's love is also unrequited. What about the fact that Will is scared, is just 14-15, IN THE 1980s, worried that it might ruin his friendship with Mike, his relationship with his sister El, and reveal is identity to everyone that he is not very comfortable with? So worried that he couldn't even say it to his brother? How about we give him some time? How about we consider the basic human emotions and see how heartbreaking it is before we jump to conclusions like it was 'queerbaiting', and that they are implying gay people don't deserve to be happy? They ignore Robin's storyline in the process, because, well, she is not a part of this ship. It's so sad when people reduce the emotions and struggles of a character to just a marketing tactic to attract LGBTQ audience. They won't see that he is struggling to accept it himself, they won't see the time period we are in, they won't see what scares him, that he cares about the feelings of people around him, and that he feels like he is a 'mistake'. All of these struggles and people are here like "oh god that was queerbaiting, let me write a Google doc on that." All they want is Mike and Will to be together. And many of them are just simply disgusting where they would reduce this to seeing them make out and wouldn't even mind sexualizing the whole thing. I'm so done. It's almost like pseudo supporters. Like they learnt some new things and they would apply it everywhere. Like the pseudofeminists who believe women should do ANYTHING to gain power, like 'using' others for their own benefit. It's the same for many of these people. Like no matter what, no matter how, what they want needs to happen, because THAT is true gay representation.

#mike wheeler #will byers

[kaijuscientists]

stranger things s4v2 spoilers under the cut

So we watched the episodes last night and i’ve been processing after being a little less upset.

yes, most of the rant is going to revolve around Eddie.

So my main issue is that Eddie died in vain.  His death ultimately meant nothing in the grand scheme of things.  It was only to prove to himself that he ‘wasn’t going to run’ this time. 

To be the hero instead of ‘the freak’

Bestie, you should have run it’s normal to run away from demon bats

And it’s all in vain, and in the end, he’s the only one of the main characters to die in the fight against Vecna. That is probably what pisses me off the most.  The duffers were saying “oh there is going to be five deaths, prepare to suffer cuz your fave is going to die.”  and most of, if not all of us knew that meant Eddie was going to be one of the five.  It’s obvious.  The duffers do not know how to create that tension with out introducing a character that is beloved (Bob, Alexei) and then killing them for the drama of it.

But when everything was said and done, none of the main cast was left permanently dead.  Max died, then El brought her back, she might not wake up, but shes alive.  Eddie just, bleed out in the upside down, with Dustin by his side.

All to try and stop Vecna from opening the gates.  And then Max died and the gates opened anyway.

So, Eddied died in vain, the thing they were trying to stop happened regardless and he really. did. not. need. to. die. 

I’d really but less upset if literally any of the other main cast had also died in the fight.  Like, max should be dead, i feel like steve, nancy or robin, one of them at the very least should be dead (if not all of them, why didn’t the vines kill them right away if vecna knew the plan and what they were coming to do?????). In russia, i was fully expecting one of them to bite it, most likely murray, but nope they all survived.

And then, after everyone's out of the upside down, no one even cares that Eddies’ gone?  No one mentions it, grieves over him? They didn’t think to tell Mike when he got there, that Eddie had lost his life in the fight? does annyone else in helfire care?

the only people that show any emotions of it at all are Dustin and Mr. Munson.  Everyone one else in town still thinks he’s a cult leader and a murderer.  I dunno, just feels wrong and bad that Eddie sacrificed himself for a town that hates him so much.

and i’m assuming they just left him in the upside down. 

He died for nothing and i’m just upset about it.

He just wanted play d&d and graduate high school.

#kaiju speaks #stranger things #spoilers #stranger things spoilers

[zaine-m]

July 15th - I always wait way too far into the day and end up posting these at like 12 am. I'll try working on it for the next episode. I'm pretty excited to start the seconds season, It means we're getting closer to the release of season 3.

Previous -- next

Season 2 Episode 1: "New Year's Eve" thoughts under cut:

Okay, big recap

I love how Caswen has seen each other shirtless

Right, the Yac thing with Nini, why did she get into that?

Jenn asks Carlos if Gina and the dancers are good then she answers

Are you Kourtney, or are you going to put Nini first again?

Okay, I was watching Zombies 3 earlier today and all the group dances looks so weird there but here they look so natural. I guess t's because here they're filming a music video, not hunting aliens

Ahh, Portwell's first couple moment!

Gina's dance moment ♥️

"We'll never break apart"... sure

Is it Gina or Nini who says "I'm gonna make my mark" I've seen lyric websites say it's Nini but in the video it's pretty clearly Gina

I found it kinda weird how they had Ricky hold the camera at the end when Nini's still supposed to be the main character. I guess it foreshadows Nini not being the man character anymore

Why does Carlos never invite people to his house

Ricky being so happy about getting back with Nini. Perhaps to an unhealthy extent

Nini, Ricky is trying to have a healthy relationship wit good communications and you're just hiding huge secrets

Why is Kourtney always the first to know when someone's coming or leaving

Expand your friend circle Kourtney

The way Gina quiets herself after she gets excited, who hurt you

Also her hair <3

Ashina holding each other really close (I like to jus ignore that Ashlyn has a boyfriend)

So the fire thing being revealed just didn't have any effect on the story, cool

Mike is just trying his best

Someone give Ricky a hug

Nini, tell him that you're leaving, stop procrastinating, i'll just hurt him more

The way that Nini is constantly compared to Ricky's mom is kinda Freudian

Nini, you've gotta fucking tell him, it's only gonna get worse from here

"You're my home" go to therapy

"The Ricky and Nini of North High" Why does she project onto the students so much

I love how at this point the viewers are just used to the teacher hanging out with a student outside of school

Okay, Miss Jenn was the lead in every play? This creates so many questions about her character. The whole "Bet on the underdog" thing made me think that she ever get the lead. But she was he girl who was always the lead??

Also Lacrosse players. Eww

You're high school exes, why is she being so bitter. Of course he would dump her when they went to different universities

Does miss Jenn really not know about that award? They act like it's pretty common knowledge

The way Ricky thinks his relationship with Nini is reliant on the musical. Someone get this boy some therapy

"I need to count on myself instead" The importance of this line!

I love how intense he's being with the dance. He's really giving his all

"Don't whatever me loverboy"

The way the writers wanted tension for the kiss but they already had them kiss once so they just gave that bullshit excuse

Did they just decide in this episode that Big Red's parent's have a pizza place

Not the throb 😭

Then they also decided that Carlos is rich. I feel like they should get better at planning ahead of time

The look they give Carlos when he says the "confident enough to dress comfortably" line

Everyone already knows the musical Carlos

"I'm Mexican and gay. This is my inside voice"

Kourtney directly tells Seb what the game is and he still gets it wrong

I think this might be the last time the waterpolo guys are mentioned

"That's actually really sweet" then they go back to insulting each other. The sibling vibes

Carlos is trying so hard to keep the secret

Ricky is so fucking excited about the musical. Why do they get him happy just to give him that much higher to fall from

I love how the drama department revolves around whatever quarter-life crisis she's having that week

EJ being way too confident about going to duke

"I lost track of the air quotes"

Wait, Seb is most thankful of his cows and not Carlos. He chose his cows over his boyfriend

The awkward silence

Kourtney immediately knowing who it is

"I'm Ashlyn. I like to know what's happening in my life"

Noo, EJ accidently making Big Red insecure about the perfume and getting in the way of Redlyn

"You know facial blindness. I have that but with emotion. I mean, I also have facial blindness" Autistic mood

"It's probably nothing" Talk about it Ricky

Ashina Singing!!!!

That screaming scrunched up face Ricky does when he sings, why does he do that? Is that just a thing the actor does?

Portwell having a moment in the midnight countdown

Miss Jenn cutting her hair after running into her ex is a mood

An american classic that's set in France lol

"The most important award in theater" that she didn't know about this morning

Miss Jenn, tone down your projection

Why is everyone assuming Nini will get the lead, like wtf why is she such a main character

Again Nini why did you announce that as publicly as possible at the worst time as possible

#hsmtmts #hsmtmts watch through #hsmtmts season 2