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#but also thinking specifically about when soren leaves in s3 :(
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anyone else have a playlist of just a few songs that in the context of the dragon prince emotionally wrench them like a lot or just me 😃
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raayllum · 1 year
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In preparation for season 5 coming out in July, could I be directed to one or multiple (however many is fine with me lol) of your analysis on Callum's arc being shown and not told in season 4? I remember back when that season came out that you were planning on writing an analysis about that but I think I missed it in the grand scheme of things, though I'm still curious all these months later! Thank you in advance! (And also my apologies if you have like, a specific tag for this already that would have been easy to me to look up and I just didn't know about it)
I know I for sure had something like that planned, but it might've been part 2 of my "Why S4 is Good, Actually" series that would've focused on both Callum (individually) and Rayla (as a couple) and we'll see if I get around to it. Part 1 about Rayla here.
But there's basically three layers stacked on top of each other when it comes to Callum's arc being shown > spelled out. Not that prior seasons do spell things out (or that spelling things out is bad) but that S4 definitely, understandably, relies on the fact that we have characterization context and therefore contrast with the previous three seasons to help us along. So let's talk about it
1) Previous characterization
In previous seasons, Callum hardly ever has to be prodded to open up. If anything, he gives heartfelt speeches or talks about how he's feeling quite often with very little prompting or even sometimes segue. He's goofy and more excited and deeply curious. Now, some of his changes in S4 is due to age and maturity (re: how much more mellowed out he is in Xadia compared to the googly-eyed amazement in most of S3, even in the new regions they travel to in S4). We also see that he's far less impatient, far more irritable regarding a lack of answers (1x06 with Rayla in a high stakes situation vs 4x01 with Soren in a possibly high stakes situation) and that a lack of answers is specifically triggering to him (4x02's book outburst). Callum's triggers - being unable to speak (1x02) / breathe (2x08-2x09) / choking (3x09) - are also important to keep in mind as to why the possession scene, which leaves him gasping for breath like he's being choked and then being literally deprived of his voice, affects him quite so deeply (beyond the obvious).
He is also, as previously noted, a lot more emotionally shut down about Rayla, but also just in general. He's still feeling like an awkward fit in his position at court, but this time it's as high mage rather than as prince ( "All that high mage stuff is so stuffy-" "Let's go talk about it in the high mage's office, that is, my office"). All of this is compounded particularly in the way he cannot say either Viren or Rayla's names until, well, she shows up:
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2) Viren parallels
Now, I think there are two layers to the Viren parallels (many of which I am still dissecting and wanting to dissect). There are the more overt ones when it comes to magic and their dynamics with Aaravos: being obsessed with the mirror, Viren asking to be allowed to let go / die while Callum asks for Rayla to kill him, with both Claudia and Rayla refusing. (More on that hot mess of a squad's dynamic in S4 here.)
Then there are their more personality / dynamic parallels. Viren and Callum both asking someone to kill Callum (and Ezran in S1) while knowing it's the last thing they'd want to do. The aforementioned Claudia and Rayla parallel. However, it goes deeper than that, I think, with Viren showing what Callum could become if Rayla hadn't shown back up, and to a certain degree, what Callum has become in order to try and cope.
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But Rayla does come back (literally pulling him away from Aaravos) and so Callum is forced to confront what he's feeling or not feeling ("I know it's silly, but I'm not sure how to feel about Rayla, either").
Yet the Callum-Viren parallels persist until the very final moments of the season, and seemingly even into S5.
Why?
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S4 emphasizes quite heavily the lengths Claudia and Viren are willing to go to for their family, and to save/protect them. Viren fears being unable to protect Claudia from Aaravos and his own failures (4x01, 4x07) and Claudia is desperate to save her father. They are two instruments (4x04) of Aaravos' Song of Love and Loss (4x03). Thus, Callum is quite overtly the third. Rayla's "Dear Callum" letter also specifically highlights protection as a key undercurrent of the show's dark and light theme:
They said that, sometimes, we make sacrifices so that the ones we love don’t have to. It’s part of protecting them—part of protecting you. Taking on hard choices and going to dark places is an act of love. It’s a gift. So, please let me give you this gift, Callum. Stay safe, and stay in the light.
This would already be noteworthy even if the show didn't take the, until S4, subtle light and darkness theme with Rayla and Callum and make it into an overt part of Callum's (and her adjacent) arc to the max. In darkness, gaze upon a fallen star. What if I'm on a path of darkness? and she shows up haloed in moonlight? Come on.
Basically: I think the Callum and Viren parallels are there to help get the audience on the page of being horrified/saddened, maybe, but not surprised at Callum doing something risky and batshit in the next couple of seasons to protect the people he loves. "However vile, however dangerous," Viren says. "In the name of love..." With S5 looking like this point for Viren will be emphasized further in his history with Soren, and Callum and Terry both poised to see what they're willing to do to protect Rayla and Claudia as they attempt to save their loved ones (Viren and Callum as mages; Viren and Runaan and co. as parents/fathers) and what they're not.
But yeah, I think the Viren-Callum stuff is definitely a show not tell, continually highlighting their growing list of similarities (and differences) in more overt ways than prior seasons, because the thematic reasoning for that foil dynamic is going to steadily come more and more to a head. To me, it's a great example of "show don't tell" in regards to both the ways Viren could get better, and Callum could get worse, tbh.
3) Magic crutch
Callum uses magical objects as a crutch in which to avoid looking at (aka confronting his feelings for) Rayla throughout the season.
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It's widely implied that Callum has only thrown himself into magic so heavily in show because he needed a distraction from Rayla, and he continues using magic as a distraction even once she's returned. He uses the staff to literally look away when he lets her walk away from him (again) in 4x05 even though he's also clearly upset by it, and can't bring himself to even watch her leave. Then we have it being his gift of sacrifice in 4x08 - "It was given to me, in spite of everything wrong humans have done with magic. It means a lot" - only for him to drop it an episode later in order to pick up her sword, because his walls are crumbling at the possibility of her being dead. So he abandons the staff, cradles her sword to his chest like it's precious to him (and it is, as his last piece of her), and then tosses that away too in order to run to her. More on this scene and its importance specifically here <3
There is also Callum's (and the show's in general, but specifically his and specifically in S4) looking away motif, which I do have a tag but have not written a proper meta for, so hopefully sometime within the next couple of weeks I'll finally get to that <3
And I think that's the bulk of it, at least for now! Thank you for asking & I hope you enjoy all the messy Callum thoughts
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aroacekazi · 3 years
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Hello, this isn't on your list of theories, but I'm curious to see if you have a theory on this: what do you think Aaravos' relationship to humanity is? And do you think its tied to what happened 300 years ago? And do you think he was ever "good" at any point in his past? Though, I'm sure it's more complicated than the simplicity of of the black and white thinking of good and evil. I'm curious about your thoughts.
This is actually something we know a fair bit about when it comes to Aaravos. And it’s quite a unique relationship, especially seeing as he is said to be the ONLY Startouch Elf any human has ever seen.
Where our information starts is long into the past, back in the era of the First Elves. We don’t know much about this, other than that it was ~5000 years ago, and the First Elves were Startouch Elves, and humans were around in this time, struggling to survive. As a First Elf Aaravos was likely also around in this time.
Secondly is still a long time ago in the timeline, but closer to current events than it is to the era of the First Elves (it seems possibly ~2000 years ago). Aaravos came to the aid of the people of the human city called “Elarion”, we know this from a poem that was in Arabic briefly shown in the show, there were also some other interesting similar literary bits and pieces about Aaravos we know about. Elarion was in Xadia, it’s the same place we see the first Dark Mage defending from Sol Regem in the S3E1 intro. We can see its ruins on the map. This is quite significant as it is implied this may have been one of, if not the only, major human settlement prior to the discovery of dark magic, and Aaravos may have had a major role in establishing it as such.
We believe the next major interaction between Aaravos and the humans comes around the time of Ziard (the first dark mage). Aaravos is said to have given a gift to humanity, and even has the title “Giver of Gifts”, this could be referring to dark magic (though I doubt it would be so simple), but something that is pretty cerrtain would be Ziard’s staff, which is later owned by Viren. Why? Because Ziard says the staff is a gift, and when Sol Regem asks who from, Ziard states “one of the Great Ones”. What do we know about the Great Ones? Well not much, but most significant is that Aaravos is the last of them. Given his title of “Giver of Gifts” as well, it’s pretty safe to assume Aaravos is the source of the staff, particularly since its focus seems to be dark magic and Aaravos is likely the only elf to have ever touched dark magic.
Shortly (relatively speaking) after this Xadia was divided, at which Aaravos was present, if he were involved, the elves likely did not know that Aaravos had a hand in this.
Now we get to the point at which we’re a little more uncertain, so I’m going to describe a few more things we know about Aaravos around this time and in the years following. At some point in this time Aaravos befriended a human, who gave him an apple which he liked the taste of. Additionally, again referring back to the map of Xadia, there is a “name of someone close to Aaravos on this map”, possible options (though we don’t know of all these individuals) could be: Tenebris, Skall, Kalik, and “the Castout”. Tenebris would be the name of Luna Tenebris, so we can ignore that for the purposes of this discussion, leaving the other three. Skall comes from the location “Skall’s Hook” in Northern Duren, we do not know anything about this location, or even that it’s definitely named after somebody, other than that it’s in icy tundra. Kalik comes from Mt. Kalik, you may recall this is the highest point in Katolis and the mountain climbed by Claudia and Soren in S1, as well as the place where a mage captured the storm to make the sky primal stone that was owned by Viren / Claudia / Callum, this option has potential as the mountain may be named after that mage, and it sounds feasible as an individual’s name, but it’s not guaranteed. The final option is “The Castout” from the name of the sea in Xadia “The Sea of The Castout”, notably Elarion lies on the coast of this sea.
I want to take a moment to talk about the apple, as there’s an interesting theory around it and a small detail in the first episode of S1. The theory posits that Aaravos was close to the Orphan Queen, who is thought to have lived ~300 years ago, and she gave Aaravos the apple. What is significant about this is that in that episode there’s a small mention about a tree that Claudia almost walks into being 300 years old, and that it is an apple tree that originated when the Orphan Queen & Aaravos met.
From here onwards speculating with as few details as we have becomes pretty meaningless I feel. But it’s evident Aaravos was manipulating Viren in S2 & S3 only to achieve his own goals of conquering Xadia.
As for what I think on Aaravos’ specific relationship to humanity and how it may have changed...? Well, chronologically, I certainly think back in the era of Elarion Aaravos may have actually felt sympathetic to humanity, certainly unicorns (the only other major star primal connected creature we know of) did, and I would think it would be really interesting if the main reason Elarion was the only major human settlement in that time was BECAUSE of Aaravos’ assistance at the time. But things have definitely changed since then, with Aaravos being willing to delve into dark magic, and becoming manipulative only to achieve his own goals. I have to wonder if the human he became close to that gave him the apple was hurt and killed as a consequence of the actions of Xadia and Aaravos has harboured resentment towards them ever since.
I know this post wasn’t exactly what you were looking for, but I hope laying out the lore in this way has helped let you in on some key pieces of information we have about Aaravos, as, as I stated at the beginning of this post, we know a surprising amount of the history here and I think there are probably a lot of takes that could be taken from this. So maybe you’ll have your own unique ideas now.
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aiyassalt · 4 years
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Claudia’s Character Assassination
This post is a follow up on my recent Claudia hot take in which I state that Claudia was another character intentionally ruined and demonized by the writers (not unlike Viren) for the sake of shipping.
I know what ya’ll are thinking: I’m just being a butthurt Claudia stan, but based on recent discoveries (such as a certain article from Polyon), I’m (mostly) making a case based on facts.
“Whoawhoawhoawhoa, aiya?” you cry. “Don’t you think you’re being ridiculous and going a bit too far with your Rayllum hate?!”
Au contraire, my friend, I’m not. An article published by Polygon in the last year (yes, I know. I’m late but whatever) came out and confirmed a few facts:
Callum/Claudia were supposed to be endgame or at least canon.  
Rayllum was never in the cards, but the writers, supposedly claim that they decided to switch things up during the storyboarding phase for S2.
“The Callum-Rayla romance sparked in a moment during the storyboarding phases of season 2, when the pair sat down for a heart-to-heart. A lingering glance on Rayla’s part prompted the writing team to consider the potential of the duo, and they continued developing it through the rest of season 2.”
However, further along in the article, the writer talks about how the staff are completely aware of fandom happenings and have developed a…”strategy” concerning fandom.
“The Dragon Prince writing staff are aware of the possible relationships their fans are hoping for, say the creators, and “good ships and trash ships” are a source of constant chatter and scrutiny in the writers’ room. After a season 2 creative retreat, a gallon of corn oil inspired writer Neil Mukhopadhyay to put a name to those moments that leave a bit too much room for romantic possibilities. “Shipping oil” became the go-to slang for when scenes felt slathered with dialogue or character blocking that could send the wrong message.”
So, it starts to become clear that Rayllum didn’t happen because the writers had a lightning bulb moment and realized it “made sense.” It has everything to do with trying to appeal to the fanbase’ wants and ideas of “appropriate” ships.
“Okay,” you say. “So the writers decided to make the juggernaut canon to make fans happy. So what! What’s the big deal? What does this have to do with Claudia?”
It has a lot to do with Claudia (and to a lesser extent, Soren) and it explains why the writing for her character in S3 felt incredibly off and dismissive for her. The writers talked about “shipping oil” for certain pairings and being concerned about “sending the wrong message.” What if the writers decided to possibly tone down certain shippy scenes? Or even go further and decided to cut out scenes or even rewrite certain character arcs to:
Accommodate the sudden pro-Rayllum direction they pushed the story towards and not threaten their endgame ship?
Make the Rayllum fans feel better and more confident about their OTP rather than feel insecure and threatened by “trash” ships getting an upper hand?
LBR, as much as Rayllum like to deny it, they’re not that secure about their ship. It’s why we see a portion of Rayllum fans continually bashing Claudia. Why, throughout S2, we started seeing an uptick of Rayllum fans calling Callum/Claudia problematic and/or abusive (no, I’m not joking or hyperbolizing; this actually happened) and trying to frame Soren/Rayla as “p*dophilic”.    
Think about it. S3 seems like it was written by a Rayllum fan with a (“hidden”) hate for Claudia. We never get to hear exactly her own thoughts about her father and her moral choices in S3. We don’t see her worrying and reeling with guilt over Callum and Ezran falling out with her. The girl we see clearly crying after telling Callum the truth about his dead father is suddenly not concerned about her childhood friends being in Xadia while she’s hearing rumors about Xadians possibly prepping for warfare. We witness Callum showing a baffling lack of concern for Claudia, a character who is supposed to be not only his childhood crush, but his childhood friend staying with her father who Callum acknowledged as someone who has changed for the worse (according to the books).  We get Nyx, a Skywing elf who possibly has never been in contact with humans, acting like a straight-up in-canon Rayluum shipper and being fine with a Human and Elf being in love rather than being disgusted. I would continue, but I don’t want to make an incredibly long post.  
And LBR: if Claudia (and Soren maybe) went with Callum and Rayla in S3 or S4, there would be trouble in paradise for the Rayllum ship and present more nuanced writing. Besides Callum x Claudia and Soren x Rayla having more chemistry than Rayllum, Claudia and Callum have more in common than Callum and Rayla do. And Soren and Rayla serve as better foils for one another and share more parallels together. Both Callum and Claudia are interested in magic, books, art, and history, had to serve as parental figures for their siblings, and are crafty and adaptive wildcards. Meanwhile Soren and Rayla are the youngest members of their individual organizations, good warriors who balance out each other’s weaknesses, and possess a lot of determination and ambition to prove themselves to their parental figures.
Imagine Soren and Rayla bonding over parents disappointing them and putting a lot on their shoulders. Imagine them confessing they have no idea what they want to do in life, and were put on their current career paths due to societal expectations. Imagine Claudia and Callum having a couple of tense moments due to her lying and trying to capture Zym, but eventually reconciling (basically, a gender reversed Zutara arc). Imagine Callum showing Claudia his Sky Magic moves and revealing it is possible for humans to do Primal Magic without needing a Primal Stone. Imagine Claudia then deciding to embark on training and dedicating herself to learn specific type of Primal Magic (such as Water or Moon, or even Earth) with Callum’s help. Imagine Callum and Claudia deciding to go on dates that also function as research trips to explore ruins and to discover the truth as to why and how the myth that humans can’t do Primal Magic was perpetuated. Imagine Rayla and Claudia’s initial interactions being full of hostility due to their past experiences and Claudia being a Dark Mage and Rayla going on a self-righteous anti-Dark Magic rant only for Claudia to break out of her typical goofy and upbeat persona and bring up the history of humans in Xadia and point out the birth of Dark Magic has nothing to do with humans wanting to kill creatures for the shits and giggles, but for survival and fighting against oppression. And as a result, Rayla actually undergoes actual character growth.
The scenarios I’ve described here sound 100x more interesting than the Rayllum Drama Desert mess. I’m also absolutely positive that they would absolutely make certain characters as more sympathetic (such as Viren, especially if Claudia defends Dark Mages), put a dent in Rayllum’s popularity and Rayla’s Perfect Waifu status and drive the Rayllum fandom bonkers. And the TDP writers knew it, which is why Claudia and Soren were given the arcs they have in S3.
I will never be over how Claudia was sacrificed at the altar of fandom pandering, and most of the fandom waving it off because, whatever, she’s no longer in the way and she’s an icky teenaged girl. Never. A refreshing character like her didn’t deserve the treatment she’s gotten thus far and will continue to get if the writers insist on pandering to vocal fan factions. Shame on the TDP writers for making such an ignorant, amateur, and disastrous move.
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risysir · 6 years
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PalenakaMarch 17, 2016 at 6:42 pm ∞
love this post! i think it’s tricky because when someone goes to hit on you at a bar, it’s essentially because they found something about your looks intriguing (and race does play into the way you work, clearly), but why they think a racial pick-up line would work is beyond me.
Fermin GualFebruary 23, 2015 at 11:07 pm ∞Reply
harrysanOctober 13, 2015 at 8:47 pm ∞Reply
I am a Hispanic man, not dark of skin; but not white (far from it). I could relate to the dilema you face. Personally: I like Asian Women, not because they are physically different; but because they are more loyal than 90% of the other women.
wcMay 30, 2015 at 9:42 am ∞
charleyOctober 17, 2015 at 4:01 pm ∞
You like Asian women because “they are more loyal than 90% of the other women.”?
Isn’t this exactly what she is railing against? More loyal then 90% of what other women? You’ve obviously never been to a Thai hostess bar have you?
Way to completely miss the point of the article lol
You mean I should talk to Asian girls just like I would any other girl?
Radical concept……but that’s what you’re saying right?
I moved to Vancouver a number of years ago from hickville Nfld. The only Asians I had seen outside of TV were at a Chinese restaurant 150 miles away. Moving to Vancouver….well….law of averages says I’ll date at least 1 Asian girl….I dated a few actually, and ended up marrying a Japanese girl 13 years ago.
She liked that I didn’t know shit about Japan, or try to relate things to her ethnicity. The fact was, her family had been Canadian for several generations, and mine, only 2. So she was more Canadian than me,
She liked that I didn”t always talk about the fact she was japanese…and she thought my “never give up” attitude towards chopsticks endearing.
Bravo! i love how u’re not only pointing out the issue but also presenting these guys with solutions. In my opinion, these guys simply don’t know what to say, so they pick a characteristic that’s seen right of the bat AND what they presume would be unique and relatable. Except they’re really not that original or appropriate.
Thank you for the tips; I appreciate your candor. I always gravitate towards Asian girls and tend to ask about their specific ethnicity, because I am fascinated by the struggles that Asian-American girls faced growing up in America. The question is not part of my one-line pick ups that I default to in hopes that It will ignite a desire for me. Email me if you’d like to continue this conversation; I’d like pick your brain on this topic.
AradFebruary 15, 2015 at 4:41 pm ∞Reply
Soren Fde HolmOctober 29, 2015 at 1:00 pm ∞Reply
jordieNovember 8, 2015 at 9:22 pm ∞Reply
Can we go on a date
So fucking what? you can get past most of woman’s bullchit simply by NOT caring what they think. 4.3 billion asian people in the world . half are woman. thinking about what she like or don’t like is the first mistake you make while approaching a woman.Just move on ;)
GOD THIS IS A SAD ATTEMPT LOL
Thanks Chin for your advice i’ll try it out soon and see where it gets me although i’m one of those guys unfortunately who find all Asian women simply irresistible and desirable and I melt in there presence. I’m a warm hearted and very pollite guy but get lost at first base. Incidentally got any girlfriends in Sydney Australia I could practice with. Love the colour of your hair in the pic above you look a bit clique but none the less amazing.
I like how the last two comments are guys trying to act interested so they can hit on you or a friend.
dailychinupsNovember 25, 2013 at 12:54 pm ∞Reply
Ha yep. They help prove my point so I leave those comments on here.
Jskuu1November 22, 2015 at 2:00 pm ∞
“Yea e-mail me so i can pick your brain as well!!!” Bwahahahahahahahahahahahah…. my first comment about guys not shouldnt use racial pickup lines and that being common sense, yea i take that back!!!’ Most guys have no clue what to say so they say the first thing that pops in to their head and don’t even think if it is offensive, racist, or even tasteful. Reading some of these comments deff give guys a bad name all over… but they are deff entertaining
So this is a white girl in an Asian body, lost count on them a while back. In general some girls are worth talking while the rest are over decorated feces. The reason why out of every 100 girls one talks to only 15% are good candidates lol.
dailychinupsNovember 25, 2013 at 12:53 pm ∞Reply
Don’t pretend like you know me, and how dare you call me a white girl. It must be fun for you to hide cowardly behind an anonymous account and leaving hateful comments on the internet for people who try to provide helpful genuine points of view and share a piece of their real opinions.
Your dumb comments just serve as evidence why I felt like I needed to write articles on this subject.
“So this is an ignorant internet bully, disguised as an expert on the subject. Lost count on them a while back. In general, some people are worth my time while the rest are haters with no lives.”
JohnDecember 4, 2013 at 4:53 pm ∞
JayDecember 5, 2013 at 6:00 pm ∞
dailychinupsDecember 9, 2013 at 11:30 am ∞
JayMarch 23, 2014 at 5:53 pm ∞
dailychinupsMarch 24, 2014 at 7:45 am ∞
JayMarch 24, 2014 at 7:29 pm ∞
mikeMay 25, 2015 at 4:59 am ∞
JamesNovember 22, 2015 at 2:14 pm ∞
Nothing wrong with being white. But I can see why you’re offended
I didn’t pretend to know anything about you, you easily gave that away.
” Your dumb comments just serve as evidence why I felt like I needed to write articles on this subject.”
No, you do this because you have nothing else going and vent your frustrations here online for others to comment and critique. Nothing coward about that or it seems you can’t face criticism and only expect positive feedback to make yourself feel justified.
I don’t see were I put expert in my original post ( You made that up) Ignorant? Please specify Internet bully? I just gave you the flip side on your article in a fraction of the size
Haters with no lives? First I don’t have a reason to hate you or hate on you, second yes I do have a very busy life style. (see how long it took me to reply back to you?) So you just enjoy the rest of the day :)
Honey, I took 2 months to reply to your first comment. I think it’s time you learn some basic math. http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-10/enhanced/webdr05/24/13/anigif_enhanced-buzz-7251-1382635074-27.gif
You are not cute and can’t act cute I have talked to women with more common sense and look beyond what your limited thoughts bring out of you.
I’m going to borrow the wise words of Erin Gloria Ryan a writer from Jezebel here: “You may not agree with a woman, but to criticize her appearance — as opposed to her ideas or actions — isn’t doing anyone any favors, least of all you. Insulting a woman’s looks when they have nothing to do with the issue at hand implies a lack of comprehension on your part, an inability to engage in high-level thinking. You may think she’s ugly, but everyone else thinks you’re an idiot.”
¿Ugly? ¿Idiot? Well anyone has and will be doing idiotic things from time to time, all humans do that (you are no exception). But far from that you are now being childish and stupid, it seems you have very big issues and take it to heart when your views are placed into question. Your responses are nothing more but desperate moves to make yourself think you are on top, who are you really kidding? Yourself? You enjoy your evening.
Dear: You should not even feed into that negativity….. pls don’t stoop to their level!!! I’m very attracted to Asian women and I find myself at lost for words to strike a conversation so I just don’t say anything and I know its my loss if you don’t have nothing nice to say to people….. then don’t say anything!!!!!
Way to keep a cool head… don’t let assholes stop you from you from writing on any topics with genuine intentions… and im from Phiily so Im not saing these things to get into your pants… you just seem like a helpful, caring person and i wouldnt wanna see retarded assholes change the way you are or stop you from trying to help people or writing on any topic that you have genuine feelings toward for fear of what a few immature or ignorant idiots that like to hide behind keyboards
Why would you help the dumbasses pick up girls your interfering with a possible upward trend in the gene pools. Jkin there’s really now way to predict shifts in prevalent traits / attitudes but I r bored.
Hi, i live in Norway, i have a chinese girlfreind (in china) i have traveled there several times, month away 6 weeks home, you only get one 30 day visa at a time, I fell very in love with her beacause she is great kind and wonderfull person, nothing else, any girl can be this, not matter her racial origins, it is so wrong to make rude remarks to a nice girl and try to pick her up with lewd comments about ethnic origins, this auther is too kind to explain to the idiots what they are doing wrong,
Michael PriceFebruary 15, 2015 at 6:18 am ∞Reply
Hi, how did you meet your girlfriend, and howbased is best way to meet a lovely Chinese girl when I’m London based?
Michael PriceFebruary 15, 2015 at 6:38 am ∞
Sorry for the poor English grammar
So my boyfriend confessed to me that he likes the fact I’m Asian, because he thinks that Asian girls are raised to be and better at keeping themselves fit and healthy. He points to the fact that I’m always conscious about eating enough green veggies and not afraid of trying other weird-looking dishes. At the same time, I’m not going to starve myself. We met each other at a dance club, which keeps us both pretty active.
I wonder what you think of this stereotype? Is there some truth to it or is it just as aggravating as the other “Giants-fan” stereotypes you go into detail in your Yellow Fever article on bolditalic? And what would you think and say about the man who admits these prejudices?
dailychinupsNovember 25, 2013 at 12:46 pm ∞Reply
Hi Rhea,
I mean it sounds like your boyfriend just likes you for who you are. You are healthy, fit, and adventurous not because you’re Asian. You just are. Being Asian is definitely a big and important part of our identity. Why shouldn’t your boyfriend like that you’re Asian?
My main issues with Yellow Fever are when men expect certain behavior/personality out of Asian girls, and then they get mad when we aren’t like that, or when they don’t spend the time and effort to get to know and understand Asian women as unique individuals. Your boyfriend doesn’t sound like he does either of those things to me.
I think it’s healthy that he admits his preferences to you openly. He’s not trying to hide anything from you. Unless he makes gross generalizations about Asian women or force you to act a certain way, I wouldn’t worry about it.
Thanks for leaving this thoughtful comment!
P.S. I love dancing too! :)
EliApril 28, 2015 at 3:30 pm ∞
Hello, I think you shirked it with Rhea…. Why?
” So my boyfriend confessed to me that he likes the fact I’m Asian, because he thinks that Asian girls are raised to be and better at keeping themselves fit and healthy. He points to the fact that I’m always conscious about eating enough green veggies and not afraid of trying other weird-looking dishes”
That is a silly utterance and a self serving one from her boyfriend! So only Asian girls eat healthily and are best at keeping themselves healthy? I completely disagree. I like Asian girls but it is not due to them being healthier than other races or being fitter, nope, they most certainly are not :) That fella displays a serious case of jaundice.
If I was in the market for a girlfriend, I’d simply travel to Asia. I’m there most of the time and I like the fact that the girls there lack the baggage and insecurities that weighs down British Asian girls or Asian Americans etc. An example of this is BBC, ABC, CBC?
I hasten to add colour does not come into it but you stand accused of not dealing the brothers in :)
twinkie
dailychinupsDecember 9, 2013 at 11:27 am ∞Reply
Of course, any Asian Americans who speak out against Asian American stereotyping must be a twinkie because there’s no way that Asian Americans are unique individuals just like everyone else, right? http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2013-10/enhanced/webdr01/24/11/anigif_enhanced-buzz-4532-1382629227-29.gif
Hi, I live in The Netherlands and I am myself also from Asia. To be specifically from Indonesia. I am now a woman though, so I cannot talk from experience what you describe. I have been living here all my life , I was adopted when I was 4 months old. I have a brother and sister that were adopted too from the same city where I was born, but they have different biological parents. Your story is really great in that it shows how stupid American guys can be. Here in my country people are very open-minded and they tend to look inside the person rather than the outside. Dutch men are in general interested in other people when they found out, especially when they have contact with them for a longer time, for example at work. My experience is that Asian people in Europe, but certainly in my country have no hard time about what you describe. Of course, there are guys like you describe, but they are really a big minority. Nowadays its harder te be from muslim origin than from Asian origin.
I find nothing bad about men trying to pick you up in such way.First of all, the path to the girls pants is the main target,and there is no single way for it. Some asian girls find it racist if they attract white boys because they are asian. The other will tell you that you are an ass…ole because you don’t appreciate their cultural background. And so on. The point is it is wrong to use such cheap pickups, and it is also wrong to judge guys in such way. Maybe he was shy and didn’t know what to tell you,so he uses the old way. When I go to Asia, I am not offenden when girls approach me just because I am white or have money. If somebody wants my buritto, then I don’t care about the reason they like me and why they approach me in this way,as long as I like that person.
P.s michael Man, we will see how you talk in a year or 3, after you are divorced and broke. And your girlfriend is hanging out with Sebastian de la guerta on Hawaii )).
I don’t see what is so wrong or offensive about an Asian guy wanting to know your exact ethnicity. I do it all the time and the Asian girls I ask don’t mind it. Be proud of whatever ethnicity you are, and that question won’t bother you anymore.
Ni hao ma? Means “how are you?” not hi lol
dailychinupsMarch 20, 2014 at 9:02 am ∞Reply
I’m fluent in Mandarin and Traditional Chinese, so thanks for the unnecessary lesson.
the guy who said “another white girl stuck in an Asian girl body” was spot on. you are an Asian girl who wants to be a white American chick. why deny it? and you all have a sick fetish for white dudes…why is that not wrong for you? oh it is just a “preference” come on…admit your shit too.
dailychinupsMarch 20, 2014 at 9:07 am ∞Reply
Stop putting words in my mouth that I never said. You don’t know me but if you read my other blog entries or author info, you’d see that I am not “trying to be white American” and I do not have a “fetish for white dudes.” What laughable ideas.
Why don’t you admit that you’re an internet bully who thinks he has the right to make rude and judgmental comments without bothering to really read my writings?
haha…you call everyone who calls you out a “internet bully”. jeesus. really?
dailychinupsMarch 20, 2014 at 5:19 pm ∞Reply
You said “you all have a sick fetish for white dudes” about Asian American women. I’m out in the open writing about my real personal experiences on the Internet with my full name, background, contact info, and pictures associated with my identity. Meanwhile, you hide cowardly behind just one first name and an e-mail address making negative sweeping generations about me and women supposedly just like me. That is what internet bullies do. Look it up because I’m not going to waste any more time on you.
“generations”? or generalizations? wow..every ignorant brat have a blog now. smh
nameless internet bullyMarch 23, 2014 at 10:25 am ∞Reply
wow
I just had to comment on this. I LOVE LOVE LOVE your post!!! ;) I can honestly say that most men won’t change. It seems that it just seems to get worse and worse every year as well as the new generations do not understand what chivalry is anymore.
I also believe that these knuckleheads that speak to girls these ways are kinda on the cocky/confident side. If cat calling is something lots of guys do in your area, then you just have to blame the girls who gravitate to that type of behavior. After all, if it works on a few girls, then why not try it on all girls?
I have seen how girls flock to these types of guys which make it hard for a nice guy who actually has respect for girls, to approach them. I tested this out while I was a bit younger. I found that being nice doesn’t always attract the attention of girls. I usually have a habit of holding doors open for people and well…this one time, a girl said “I can do that myself!”. Umm, I said, “sorry, I just saw your hands full”. I still do nice things for people, but I was told that I was looked weak for doing this. When I acted a bit cocky, I saw that girls looked at me different. It was pretty sad and well, I don’t like to be with those types of girls who are attracted to jerks.
I guess overall, people are entitled to give their opinion. We’re all raised differently…so just prepare for the worst and hope for the best out of each person…right? ;) Best of luck to you girls who are having these issues. Maybe one day you should tell a guy off for cat calling? It might just give him some food for thought. ;)
JayApril 11, 2014 at 4:05 pm ∞Reply
Yes you are forever to be friend zoned and whipped.
I don’t understand this but it really depends on the girl. some girls like to be complimented on their breast and butt. some like when you tell them your cleavage looks awesome on that dress. And it doesn’t necessarily has to be an Asian woman, it can be any woman in general. and honestly why bother posting something to advice guy on how to pick up girls?. women should know by now that they will always get hit by guys in any way possible, it is nature if a guy looks at your ass or breast or your entire body in general it doesn’t mean he is a creep. It simple means that he is sexually attracted to you in ever possible way and obviously will try to get in your pants, which is normal.
Now that being said, you can’t discard this man simple by the way he looks at you, give him a chance.. unless he is a completely ugly ball of hair, then I understand, but I had been in many situations in which I like this woman and only one stare accidentally at their ass or breast they dismiss you completely. even though they don’t know your motives yet. So then she goes and tells her friends that I am some kind of creep because I looked at her improper. Excuse me?… what is a proper way of looking a woman then?, guess what… there isn’t. its called sexual attraction there is no love sort of speak, every relationship between a woman and a man will always end up in sex which is procreation, that ensure the survival of our species. but most woman nowadays, have come up with the most stupid arguments against man. don’t get me wrong, not every woman is like that but in my personal experience, it seems that woman is turning into this callous iron shell of creature that judges man improperly.
Again.. no man is a creep ladies, if a man is looking at you so bad that it bothers you, don’t blame him. blame his sexual instinct, sometimes this excitement can’t be stopped, sexual urge is difficult to conceal or relieve. if a man its “creeping” at you it just means his instincts are being triggered by nature.
Interesting topic, I love Asian people in general, they have many of the manners the west has forgotten, but as a western male, i think if you really like the people and you want to meet Asian Women, then you will meet them without having to try to pick them up, they will gravitate to you, if they find you interesting. if they do, be interested in them, and don’t push, and don’t act like you’re the best looking guy in the jungle and maybe the worst Scenario is that you end up with a friend who will make you much happier than you could ever wish
Well i don’t have any of these problems. lol Can i get some advice on how to handle anti-American parents? I really am at a loss for that.
Hi my name is edward,i just read your page i think it would realy help me in the long run,up till now i didnt know what to say to my friend who is all so asain now i understand that it dont matter what race she is as long as i treat her like a human bean and not a peace of meat she might be in to me.thanks again it mean so much to me even if i have no idea of who you are your words were a Bigg help opening my might to all posibilitys.
Lol just read my comment also and mind instead of might lol once again thanx:)
Chin is right on the money here with some simple, sensible, non-confrontational ways of showing an interest in ANYONE regardless of race, sex or any other particular trait. And that’s the point that many seem to miss. Just treat everyone the same – and don’t be overtly forward when introducing yourself, it won’t impress anyone.
Focusing on one particular external characteristic without knowing a person somewhat demonstrates a lack of credibility and imagination. Judging by looks alone will only get you so far. If that’s as far as you want to go, then good luck. If you genuinely are looking to meet new interesting people and maybe even a partner then take her advice and take a little time to really understand why their personality, character, behaviour and ALL aspects of appearance spark your interest. It’ll make conversation all the easier.
It’s worth that little effort.
I found this site off a Google search trying to get pointers on how to pick up Asian women. (I find Asian women unbelievably beautiful.) Why do I need pointers? Because it seems like Asian women don’t dig me. (I’m Hispanic.) I don’t hit on them and I don’t try to pick them up. Rather, all my interactions with them consists of my dealing with an Asian woman working at a Korean cafe or restaurant. I’m friendly, they’re friendly, but I always get the impression I’d strike out if I tried flirting with a Chinese or Japanese woman. Maybe one day I’ll summon up the courage to ask one out on a date.
I don’t understand why the “ni hao ma” line was inappropriate. Since it was another Asian guy perhaps he was Chinese and since you are Asian perhaps he was guessing that you spoke Mandarin. If someone says “How are you” or “Que pasa” they are just trying to start a conversation……
I did like reading your page, although at the end day, you should have said that guys who want to date asian women, should just be themselves as in dating any other woman, not to try to be something they are not.
I have been in two relationships with asian women one born Malaysia, educated in England the other born in the US, educated again educated England, both of them employed in English Healthcare.
I was just myself when I met these two women, I didn’t try to relate to their asian backgrounds, as western guy I would be out my depth if I tried, thats for learning later in the relationship.
What attracted me to them, mainly it was their smiles, the first wasn’t a so call online thing, it was a face to face, we worked in same place, we joke around for a while then it just happen.
The second was online thing, again facial attraction more than anything, we were just being ourselves, I’m not most attractive guy in the world, but its what you say that counts and that relates to any woman at the end day.
Although I did fall for both these women, behind their sweet smiles, they are very driven women, who can be very straight to the point and not to mention controlling of their men. So beware guys!
How about this angle. You say racism is always inappropriate? How about the fact that u didn’t include black males. I am a guy who REALLY doesn’t care what colour the girl I date is so I believe I have the moral authority to speak on this. You know this to be true. A lot of Asian women hold HUUUUGE racist attitudes and are unbelievable scornful of black men. They often feel by trash talking black guys with there Asian friends and white friends that they elevate their social status some how. It makes them feel very western and very white. Now Asian women that like guys are JUST INTO BLACK GUYS AND BLACK CULTURE. I DARE YOU TAKE A POLE OF 100 Asian women and watch their reaction it will either be EEWWWAH! Or U’ll see the minorety that real dig black men. Look into ur heart and examine urself. U may not like what u’ll find . Not saying ur racist but IM JUST SAYIN!
TedApril 13, 2015 at 9:55 am ∞Reply
*I meant Asian women that like black men JUST LIKE BLACK MEN AND ARE INTO BLACK CULTURE ( which is not homogeneous btw )
You prove my point to the letter my friend. One of the ugliest aspects of racism is exclusion. Could u not intelligently respond to my points? I said these things because I was informed of this from YES my Asian girlfriends in the past. They have sat in some of these hateful, scornful and stereotypical discussions about black males.
Thank you for sharing your perspective, and you make some good points, but TBH your “treat me like any other American” stance has a some sticking points that you need to be careful on, and I would love to hear your opinion on them. First, barring that he’s made any crossing-the-line type statements, if a guy actually has GENUINE interest in the language or culture stemming from your ethnicity, then why is it a problem? As long as it’s NOT the ONLY piece of your individuality he appreciates, it shouldn’t be; diversity is a beautiful thing in this world. But just as racism doesn’t have any place, nor does unjustifiably assuming things. All in all, in the name of fairness, just bringing it up that you’re Asian shouldn’t be an immediate deterrent. Next, I think we can all agree that simply asking where you’re from is fine. I ask that question to just about everyone I meet. It’s the asking where you’re REALLY from that, understandably so, annoys. But how about asking if you can speak another language? Irritating as it may be to you or other Asians with the same mentality, that’s a perfectly reasonable question too. And if you do speak Chinese or Korean, there shouldn’t be any reason not to express it. My point is that even though your mindset is such that revealing your ethnicity has no place or relevance in flirting, please don’t let past experiences or emotions get the best of you. You should never HAVE to shy away from who you are. It wouldn’t correlate with being proud that your Asian. Lastly, and to sum up, what you said is true, “We all just unique human beings trying to find some love in this world.” But sometimes WE can’t choose what’ll stimulate our interest or attraction, and that may very well include you being Asian. In maintaining your perspective/stance, you have to realize that there is definitely a line, and until your suitor crosses it, you gotta be fair to. It’s the only way you can expect to be treated fairly.
This post is a few years old now and I’m not sure of the likelihood of you reading this, but I just wanted to say a few things in response, hopefully not to be taken as mean hearted.
I could not speak of the nature of the original intention of this post, that would be foolish to attempt to know that. However, it seems that the purpose is less to give advice and more to scold men. I would like to point out that if women had the need to flirt; the use of fumbling, idiotic and cringe worthy tactics for pick up would absolutely be used. The fact is the vast majority of women simply need to accept a free drink and giggle. As a rule of thumb many women hate excessively being hit on. I get it. But some facts of life need to be accepted, and the sooner the better. And how would someone know that a woman has been getting hit on a lot? Should guys ascertain by the level of beauty that a woman has hit the proverbial ceiling limit? It is a bit bothersome that you never explicitly outlined as to why your ex was “missing the point” when he stated basically that shitty people are shitty people? As a matter of fact; that is the single most undying, relentless, unwavering, most true and steadfast notion there could ever be while living a human life. There will be a day when all of that wanted or unwanted attention will be turned off in your life forever. Again, it’s just life.
Life or the planet as a whole is not made a better place by opinion blogs (nor are responses to them, I understand that). The course of evolution will not take a quantum leap through awareness. It simply does not work that way. [Actually, I don’t fully believe that. If every human on a planet all had the same beautiful balanced image of peace in their minds eye at exactly the same moment, brain power connectivity might actually do something globally transcendent and unbelievably wonderful.]
If someone went up to an attractive black woman and asked her if she would like to go to KFC with them, that person is what we call “stupid”. Inept. Socially incapable. They are fools in every aspect of life, and they multiply much faster than capable, respectful people. Again, this must be realized soon, or choose to forego a night destination that is 100% guaranteed to have these people.
There are worse things in life than being hit on, even if it is A LOT. Being pretty is a tough life isn’t it? If I were asked if it hurt when I fell from ivory heaven (said in some kind of a way that was clearly meant to be harmless) every 8 minutes, every day of my life, the flattery felt would never truly die. Too bold to say, since there is no way for me to experience it until I am reborn as a curvy 10? Well, I am an adult and I know when to not shit on people’s good intentions, no matter how ill progressed that person’s frontal lobe is. Seems ironic after reading this novella though right?
I’m glad that some people got some good stuff out of your post, honestly. Hopefully that will continue. I wrote what I felt, even if the sentiments aren’t shared are even read.
Oh, and I know that you don’t like anonymous keyboard warriors so I will sign in with my FB account. Feel free to drop by.
Pretty cool notes. And we get front row seats to some of the examples . Haha. I’m terrible with with women, maybe because I lack confidence , but I guess I make up for it in courage . It’s pretty obvious why I am on this page. So thanks for being in the right place at the right time. That’s why I love asian girl . They are always on time. Lol. So many references can be made from that. Lol jk.
Stumbled across this article while searching information on a recent attack on a girl on a Sydney train, intrigued I read the article, was shocked and thought you were overgeneralizing people’s stupidity – then I read the comments. Guys trying to pick up in the comments section of an article describing their goofiness.
Ah, this life. So beautiful.
Hahaha another dumb bitch trying to get a date using a blog and its sad this bitch is a retarded white bitch in a Asian body haha when will these desperate hoes learn well all bitches are the same y’all hoes need to be put in a big ass cage and sent to a unknown island p.s u make us Asians look bad
i know you said not to say it…. but really you are beautiful
11:21pm I should be sleeping but this blog is retardedly funny. Few comments.
A) Internet has made us all dumber. B) Guys will always be weird perverted human beings. It’s in our genetic code. I’m one of them! C) Who ever writes in this blog has most likely an interest in Asian women. Thus this is a biased population sample and no statistican interpretation and is valid and no generalization can be made. D) B + C means that some guys like tall, some guys like short, black, white,big boob, small boob, skinny, curvy, asian, mixed, native american (I’ve never heard anyone talking about Eskimo girls btw, so sad face for them I guess) etc. For example, I most likely have some brain cell programming that makes me like short skinny asian girls, because in my eyes they look attractive and young, so who cares, whatever. E) who ever hates her(the author) point of view, you still contribute to her blog by increasing her traffic and valuation so the joke is on you/us.
Bottom line, here is my humble opinion. I don’t believe any guy who says that they like Asian women because they “behave” and “treat them nice”. Go marry an ugly/fat/old redneck woman. She will treat you like a prince. (I have nothing against ugly/fat/old redneck women so don’t jump on me because first of all you admit you are ugly/fat/old and second of all I’m ugly fat old for some girls out there). We are superficial. We need to satisfy our vision after all and go with something that is visually appealing.
PS saying we are proud to be Asian / American / Italian / white / black / smurf / is kinda silly. We didn’t do anything for it, we were just born that way. We should be proud for things we achieve and put some effort into.
After writting all this I am sure I’ve contributed nothing to this world ha ha.
BradenJuly 26, 2015 at 6:05 am ∞Reply
Haha I agree. extremely late on the original post. I found this topic because I seen a pretty girl I tried to talk to. Her primary language was madrain she only spoke to me in English, but I was having a hard time understanding her accent was looking for help about it. But every comment section is exatly the same on this topic for any post even though the posts differ slightly. They have good information about culture. Yes American is a culture and it differs by area to. I like your thoughts on this topic. I laughed when I read the part about people thinking you where dressing as an anime. My first thought was street fighter to be honest. Nothing to do with race but gave me a smile after thinking about it. Figured I’d put my 2 cents on on this topic.
What if there is someone in the world that really just wants to be in love with someone?
I am looking for a nice beautiful asian girl what talent with personality is so humor and outgoing nice go out to have fun but get to know that person and she did to me to get to know me I am a man looking for a beautiful asian girl is very kind very sweet and talented I like to go out diner clubbing walking movies walking sure everything else to possibly leave if I give me the girl feel good and comfortable make her understand me me understand her see how life goes by beautiful asian girls are beautiful they are create in mind of everything that’s the type of person I am looking for please get back to me and let me know what you think my name is full dangelo I’m from Philly Pennsylvania I am 15 years old of age 55 on 35 pounds medium built or working man in my life for last 32 years and I’m looking for somebody right now in awhile for me for the one with someone but if it’s you I hope I catch a ride with you to see how things go I hope you get back to me it seemed like going to picture of this photo is seem like you are very beautiful girl I like to me thank you
I usually find that starting a pleasant conversation with a woman of any race will open the door for you and if she’s into you shell give you signs that she is and if not well you just talked to a beautiful woman so good for you
Hello. This blog may be dead but I thought I’s a comment anyway as I have a perspective different from other posters.
I’m a Caucasian American expatriate who has worked in Greater China (HK and Taiwan) for over 10 years. My spoken and written Chinese is highly proficient.
I’ve travelled extensively all over the world. Meeting women of any ethnicity has always been easy for me. Simply be confident and make the other person smile and hopefully laugh (with you, not at you). Be aggressive without being creepy. Be a good and active listener. Be positive and upbeat. Be polite and move on if she’s not interested. It’s very easy and no special skills are required to meet a Chinese / Japanese/ Korean/ etc. woman as opposed to a Lithuanian / Panamanian etc. woman. I’ve dated them all.
I agree with most of the author’s advice. For example, it’s thuggish and abusive for a guy to approach an Asian woman and say “I like Asian chicks because they are tight.” I’d probably drop any guy who said that to an Asian female friend of mine. But a blog shouldn’t be necessary to explain that. I think the author is right that avoiding remarks about ethnicity INITIALLY is the right move, but after you’ve spoken for awhile it should be fine.
I think the author is overally sensitive, however, about certain things. I’m in a tiny minority of Caucasians living in Taipei, and people here–men and women–frequently ask me about my nationality, ethnicity and family heritage shortly after meeting me. I’m not offended, although I’m disappointed in women who tell me they will ONLY date white guys, or are most interested in Americans, etc. This is extremely superficial and not a mark of intelligence.
I really don’t understand the author’s hang-up about being asked her cultural heritage. Asians in Asia do it to Caucasians ALL THE TIME. It’s an icebreaker. In my experience, Chinese / Taiwanese who get pissed about being asked if they are Korean have racist feelings toward Koreans.
I also think the author’s anger at the Asian guy (probably ethnic Chinese) who said “Ni hao” to her is hard to understand. When I happen to stumble on another Caucasian foreigner in Taipei, I’ll usually smile and say “hello”. I’d be shocked if any Caucasian (or Taiwanese, for that matter) would be angered because I didn’t say 你好 in Chinese. I can say with certainty that the Chinese and Taiwanese guys I know would consider the author very rude if she expressed anger at them for daring to speak in Chinese, since she herself is ethnic Chinese.
MarkDecember 4, 2015 at 5:04 am ∞Reply
I agree with you completely. I’m a mixed origin westerner who spent most his adult life in Taiwan and the PRC, but I did live in SF Chinatown for a year. Most people there were Cantonese speakers with maybe 1/3 also speaking Mandarin and much fewer speaking English.
My first time in the laundromat on Waverly st., I saw all the clothes washing powder machines were out of order. So I asked a 20 something woman there “唔該, 洗衣粉賣在哪裡?” and she totally lost her shit at me for speaking Chinese. About 10 seconds into that, a woman who looked about 70 walked over from another washing machine and told me the machine was always broken and pointed down the street telling me where I could buy some. I thanked her and started to leave to buy some detergent and the younger woman looked dumbstruck and said something like “oh, you want detergent…”
She could actually understand Chinese, but thought I was flirting with her and just went into attack mode without even thinking! Even when I got back with the detergent and was loading my clothes into the machine, she still asked why I spoke Chinese and I actually had to pull out my TW ID card before she let it drop. Honestly, I think she was the one with racial prejudices and she’d never have done that if I’d been 華僑.
Fortunately, I didn’t meet that kind of aggressive person often, but it did happen more than once in SF. In Asia, people often make all kinds of racial assumptions about me (like being stupid or unable to use chopsticks or lazy) but at least they aren’t openly hostile at me for just trying to communicate with them in my best guess of what our common language is. Even a hyper nationalist Beijinger is better that IMHO.
lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala
Race is non-existent. There is only one “race:” and it’s called the human race.
There may be different tribes. Or customs. Or skin color differences. But there is no such thing as racism.
Just tribalism.
And – ALL women get hit on. Asian women sometimes forget this. And guys are dumb.
So there ya go.
wow, you seem a stuck up asian girl, and you aint that hot anyways, aussie asian girls dont have a inferiority complex like you do,,, get over it……..I think youre exaggerating about how many guys actually hit on you
So here are my general guidelines for straight single men trying to talk to ANY WOMAN you’re physically and or psychologically drawn to:
Compliment her on her looks or outfit but be specific without being creepy. The words “You’re so hot/gorgeous/beautiful” are so overused and trite, but you might be the first guy to tell her “I really like your modern haircut” or “Your necklace is really cool” this month. Just don’t cross the line over to sexual like “Your ass/cleavage looks amazing in that dress.” Smile and say something along the line of “Hey, how’s it going? My name is _______.” Observe her behavior for a while and try to find something relevant to say or ask or joke about. For example, if she’s watching a sports game, ask for her predictions of how it will turn out. If she’s waiting to order a drink at your neighborhood bar, ask her if she has had your favorite drink there yet. Joking around is always good provided that she shares your sense of humor.
^Call bullshit on this LOL. Also, I agree with others, your shit only works with gay looking white guys. I’m sorry, but I’ve tried all these on over 50 Asian women online. And they start to lose interest after 10 minutes in a convo. Clearly mental cases around lol.
Also, the problem is not with men. The problem is with you Asian women being overly sensitive and way too fucking picky. Why are men easy to talk to and not easily offended? Why do we have to follow guidelines to talk to women? This is dumb.
Hi Chin. I’m not going to hit on you, so you can let out a little “Phew!” right about now. I fell in love recently in Tay Ninh, with the sweetest, most decent, funniest, sharpest-minded girl in the world. I plan to spend the rest of my life with her, and she with me; right now we’ll live in Vietnam, but neither of us knows the future, other than that ours must be together.
I spent 4 months of 2015 in Barcelona, Spain. I hit on dozens of girls there, most of them Oriental (I’m British, btw, so “Asian” has a different meaning to us: most Russians are Asian, as are most Turks, all Pakistanis and over a billion other folks whom the average American would be confused to hear me allude to as “Asian”). I had an on-off-on again-off again gf in Bcn who was Chinese. I dated and got toyed with or rejected by plenty of Koreans (they tend not to use compass points in their nationalities, though, for sure, none of them was a northerner), Chinese girls Singaporeans and, inevitably Spaniards and South Americans.
Here’s the thing, Chin. Not once did I ever ask where any new person I met was from, much less where they were “really” from. And I always used to playfully respond to that meaningless, dull question with: “I never divulge that kind of information on a first date. So, anyway, what is your earliest childhood memory?”. Either that or, as you sagely advise here, I would ask them to tell me more about X sport that I knew they were into, or their experienced backpacking in Y city which they’d told me they had just visited prior to Bcn, and so forth.
I’m amazed, disgusted and disappointed in equal measure at how ubiquitous the casual racism you talk about seems to be; and I’m astounded that any guy expects to endear himself to the focus of his desire by “noticing” and remarking on such alienating banalities. But I did notice skillless “charmers” getting lucky regardless, all the time. And it was (forgive the racist stereotype, please, Chin!), usually a lanky, golden-haired Australian with a surfboard under his arm who would take home, on any given evening, the pretty girl whom I’d invested an hour or more of my evening in making giggle and making feel good about her lovely, very uniquely wonderful self.
So, laudible and worthwhile as your observations and inducations are, there’s a certain kind of man, and a certain kind of woman, who are so impenetrably superficial that, well, stupid “egg-fried rice” quips and such like will always be ok for them.
I know this sounds disappointing. But your experience, too, must surely confirm the reality in what I’m telling you, right?
All Asian women are beautiful, and no, i’m not here to pick anyone up… i just wish i lived in Japan, I like love their culture, plus i love hearing about their history because American history is so boring and depressing… my dream girl is Asian and im holding out for her.. im gonna start saving up for Rosetta Stone, just to make that 1st effort toward finding her
This is one ugly girl.
Woah this was really interesting to read! I’m a blonde Caucasian female and I get hit on a lot too but not in a way that’s racist! I agree I think its a huge double standard. I guess I can’t speak for all Caucasian girls but for me, I’ve never really had a lot of people ask me questions about race. I think the furthest its ever come was “Are you into black guys?” which is a question I’ve only gotten twice from a white guy and the other time was a white/Asian guy. Wow I also just wanna say you’re super pretty! I’m not half as pretty as you but I understand your pain of creepy guys coming onto you 24/7. But damn! I still cant believe guys constantly bring your race into it that’s just stupid. Especially the “you know my ex was Asian” line… that’s gotta be one of the worst ive ever heard.
Hi! I’m a Chinese girl who moved from China and I don’t get offended at any of the things you mentioned. People think we are more traditional because most Chinese are and it IS part of our culture. And asking someone where they are from is not offensive to me. I love to know where people’s from and get to know more about them. Even if you are from SF, know what ethnicity you are helps start conversations and getting to know your background! I know I’m interested in where people’s from or where ur family is from. I usually ask about ur background from another country because I find another culture interesting. Hell, my ex boyfriend was blonde and his grandpa was nazis. But of course, I’m missing the point. The point is, to me at least, you might be sensitive on a lot of issues. I think most people are not intentional racists. They just more into certain type of girl.
First of all, THANK YOU! Secondly, yeah I know this is an old post but whatever…
I can relate. I’m not Asian. I’m not female…but I can relate. I am hispanic, mexican, chicano, latino…pick your favorite one…that’s me (just please don’t label me Spanish!!!). I refer to myself as an American of Mexican heritage, I was born in Cali, my parent (yes that’s singular) she was also born in Cali, but whatever.
I work in a corporate environment for a big global tech company and I’ve experienced countless comments, questions from “well-meaning” peers, biz partners, etc.. It’s unfortunate that race gets shoved into just about every social aspect of our lives. I’ve lost count of how many times people have asked me about how to cook some Mexican dish…it’s like “…dude, I don’t even know, like…my grandma didn’t even make that!”.
So back to my sincere thanks to you – I mean it. I too am guilty of being attracted to Asian girls. And I too have fumbled about trying to smooth talk my way into their hearts, and it can be hard to find something to break the ice with. Sometimes my stupid pick up lines work, other times not so much but my point is that I appreciate the time you took to make a point about using race. I never really thought that I would ever make someone feel the way my peers at work have sometimes made me feel, especially towards someone that I am trying to get “romantical” with.
Oh and for the record, I don’t like Asians because of some weirdo 18th century idea that all Asian women are conservative, THEY ARE NOT! Or that they are all extra “tight” (lol ewww) they are all not that either. For me it’s mostly because I grew up in a diverse population and had mostly Asian or hispanic friends and so if I see an Asian girl coming my way then I’ll inevitably turn into George McFly – not smooth.
-Edgar
As a white American male whom is attracted by the Asian female I didn’t get much from this… All I can say I got from this is don’t use racial stereotypes when hitting on Asian females which, to me anyways, is common sense when hitting on any race of females, lol. But I guess from your previous encounters the guys hitting on you didn’t have much common sense… Then again common sense isn’t that common anymore this day and age!!!
This article is complete bullshit. First Asian women predominately like white & Asian man.. very rare you see them with black & hispanic. They’re just as racist because they tend to date lightskin males culturally, only thing that makes them different from whites iare they don’t have the Sepremacist title in their history. And Asiam women overall are just weird, unappealing women, men only find them exotic because they look so different from anyone else…but if you take out the face they just crazy, shallow, dumb bitches.
Wow you are so into yourself!! Lame girl.
I really enjoyed the tips u have provided and can only hope to muster up the strength to one day be able to express how I would really love to kiss her cute eyes n run my fingers thru your silky smooth hair to wake every morning to say Wo Ani to you and only you as a Hispanic 1/2 Puerto Rican 1/2 Dominican Republic, born in Brooklyn New York raised in Miami Florida it’s so challenging to me to be fortunate enough to be able to truly find my Asian queen wish I knew where to find you now that I have return to my native state of New York.
I like Asian girls because of the shape of their eyes and usually their high cheekbone. I mean I like Asian girls because I think they’re more beautiful. Am I pervert or sick? For the rest I think they’re just like every other girl, no fried rice nor whatever. Actually during the period I’ve been living in Japan, it has been pretty frustrating for me being treated like an object only because I was Italian. I treat people as people without caring about the ethnicity, but I like Asian girls more. Do I deserve a medical treatment?
I like Asian girls because of the shape of their eyes and usually their high cheekbone. I mean I like Asian girls because I think they’re more beautiful. Am I pervert or sick? For the rest I think they’re just like every other girl, no fried rice nor whatever. Actually during the period I’ve been living in Japan, it has been pretty frustrating for me being treated like an object only because I was Italian. I treat people as people without caring about the ethnicity, but I like Asian girls more. Do I deserve a medical treatment??
So then in the end you cant open with anything related to race such as being Asian. But if your goal is date an Asian woman simply because you find them beautiful then you cant say that either? If all that leaves you is to say “nice day today, huh?” wouldn’t that come off as boring? What if there is a natural curiousity there and I said “”I caught that Joy Luck Club and I just wondering if you can relate to any of it?” Would this be an offensive opening? Great post, funny.
I know many Asian women they tell me the same thing how white,black and Latino men make there comments thinking how easy they’re to pick up. Iam a Hispanic man who has dated Asian woman all I can say is be your self don’t try to hard to impress them show respect and take your time talk about family talk about there day show up with flower become there friend and be patient don’t kiss on the first date meet her family and you can’t do this then then you will never meet a nice girl This not just for Asian woman it’s for all women
Wow. All this time, I was doing it wrong. My line was: “Yo Hogigamashinto, wanna go boom boom on some eggroll? I like the yellow hot mustard baby!” Now I umderstand why all those Korean, Japanese, and Chinese girls said “no speaka English!” I thought it was just because I was at the airport terminal waiting near JAL, Korean Air and Air China. Hmm…
Seriously, are you serious with this Chin? What crazy guys are you attracting? Sorry you experienced such idiots, but your advice smack of an unsaid underlying assumption that non-Asian men would have such racist thinking, and that assumption is itself racist, especially by comparing other non-Asian men to the one that flaunted he had an ex-girlfriend that was Asian.
For the record, I’m white and grew up in a diverse neighborhood. I can tell you, you speaking for “Asian women” plays into the stupid American simplification of Asians as all one homogenous group. They most certainly are not. Its like referring to “Euorpean women,” thinking what appeals or would generally apply culturally to an English woman would apply to a Serb would apply to a Swede would apply to a French woman. I assure there is no magic underlying formulaic approach.
Lastly, having dated a Korean and Chinese-American girl in highschool and college, I know Asian can be nasty racists asses, especially the family members of the girl being dated and well treated. No race had a monopoly on racism or ignorance. A woman being of any given race is not an issue. What is is her nature and compatibility. And I’ve lived long enough now to know the only univerisal commonality uniting people is ignorance and prejudices and a want to be respected and loved.
I’m late to the party but I found this site while trying to find statistics on black/asian interracial relationships in San Francisco.
Why?
Because I noticed that similar to my hometown Seattle, San Francisco has a huge population of asian people and a low-ish percentage of black people but it seems to me that asian/black relationships were much more popular back home and are practically non-existent here in the bay area, save a few asian guys I’ve met with black girlfriends.
Anyway, being a black male I totally understand where you’re coming from on this topic. People assume I’m aggressive all the time, assume that I must be pissed off since im not as extroverted as they expected, and my personal favorite, turn on their playa playa swag to talk to me only to realize I talk “like a white guy.” Wamp wamp wamp.
I’m giving you these examples to illustrate a couple of things… 1) That it’s not just asian girls or people who are sometimes treated as some type of exotic fetish, everyone experiences it to some degree (more so if you are not white), and 2) It’s common. Some people are curious, some people are stupid, and sometimes people are both. Bad combination. Consider yourself enlightened and use it live an enriched life. Most naturally with those who have similar life experiences.
I’m single. :)
Dudes, the lady has left the room. Your words are just blowing in the wind
Lalalalala.. all creatures are equal in God’s eyes and very beautiful…
I don’t know how I got this site of yours, but it’s hysterically funny. I know exactly what you’re talking about, I am an Asian male with two sisters. I have seen it all my life. I have been with white women and Asian women. Text me for any insight. 808 283 0877
I don’t know how I got this site of yours, but it’s hysterically funny. I know exactly what you’re talking about, I am an Asian male with two sisters. I have seen it all my life. I have been with white women and Asian women. Text me for any insight. 808 283 0877 I know my name sounds super German. But I am hapa. Mom born and raised in Japan. Text if you feel like it. You caught my attention.
beautiful girl, I’m very attracted to your asian amazing lips (hope I wasn’t racist there hahah) and I like your attitude also :D I can see, a conversation or something more than that with you can be interesting.
what can I say.. come to Europe! I don’t know how it is San Francisco but for sure you’ll be amazed by east countries of Europe., here you can see a lot of beautiful landscapes and another things, nice experience.. and who knows, maybe I’ll be your guide in this journey if you let me to bite your lips ;)
see you
Aloha,
I believe your a victem of your own words. Me personally I love cultures, I have often approached Asian Wahine and during the initial conversation ask what there nationality is rather then where they are from so I can find something in common with my experiences. Myself born and raised in Hawaii and being a minority I grew to love the cultures of the many different people living there. In fact I speak many languages and eat, cook and live by different beliefs, spirituality and I practice hula and many different martial arts but I’m not from an Asian or the kanaka maoli race. Does that mean I hate my own race or nationality? No. I am American and hapa and i love diversity. The problem today is it’s not ok to be unique. Political correctness demands we all be the same. It’s ok young lady to be described as kanani or nani for having features relatted to your nationality or race. This is a compliment. But I also understand where you conning from too. It really depends on the spirit of intent of the person approaching you. Often I find it’s just lack of knowledge or ignorence rather then being disrespectful. For example, do you know how many stupid questions I and others from Hawai’i that move to the mainland get from people who know nothing about the islands? Try does everyone surf? Do you guys live in huts(seriously)? Do you speak Hawaiian(I do a little but not everyone does) I think you get the point. But I found most are just curious and they ask out of curiosity not to be disrespectful. It’s hard to believe that just 10 years ago there were places in our country that have never been exposed to anything other then Apple pie culture or the Caucasian race. A lot of people approaching Asian American girls may just be in awe to expierence something different. Not everything is negative. Myself growing up on Hawai’i i took for grantted the beauty of Asian woman because they are everywhere on the islands. But living the last decade in areas on the mainland that are just Caucasian I have come to appreciate Asian woman again and every woman of different races as being uniquely beautiful. In conclusion, political correctness is also racist became it doesn’t recognize or respect the uniqueness of each culture or its right to exist but wants to create a one universal culture. We see this in the gentraficatiin of anything unique in this country and the islands. Mahalo for your time.
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raayllum · 4 months
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What are your thoughts on Viren's feelings towards Soren, and how they have or haven't shifted over the course of the story (and may or may not continue to shift through the next three seasons)? (I see a lot of people arguing that Viren literally just never cared about him or something, but that feels like a very shallow and frankly boring interpretation.)
Received this ask pre S5 and only getting to it now so - apologies but I think there's enough in S3 for this as a whole so here we go
I think the heart of this lies in 3x03, since it's Viren and Soren's first interaction since 1x06 (and in some ways, their last "Soren hasn't defected" conversation, as he starts to majorly shift in 3x05) and partially because there are two conversations going on in well, said scene.
The first conversation is between Claudia and Viren, in a lot of ways, as Viren, after a brief, "I'm so glad to see you safe" (which, given Claudia's white streak and Soren's literal injury, is more than warranted) before he gets down to the heart of the matter:
V: The council is more concerned I broke a few rules. But none of that matters. The egg. Did you get it?
Viren delegated tasks to their children based on their personality and skill level, yes, but also, I think, per each task's importance. For Soren, Viren gave him a task that already had an out; the boys could very well die by the Moonshadow elf's or the landscape's harshness, leaving Soren not having to kill them. And killing the princes is important in Viren's machinations (it leaves the throne empty for him long term, and permanently so) but it's not the most important thing.
That, as he says, is the egg, and it's not surprising to me that that's the task he gives to Claudia. As he says to Claudia, the most important thing is that she comes back with the egg, both in 1x06, and in 3x03. The thing is that Soren, unlike Claudia, had zero context for any of this. And Claudia, unlike Viren, was the one who brought up the concept of having to choose between Soren and the egg (which she, for lack of a better conception of it, was also responsible for losing) in the first place. And whenever Viren is presented a problem or question, he answers it even if no one wants to hear or likes the answer.
Then Claudia explains that she let it fall back into Xadia's hands, offers up 'excuses,' and Viren asserts that Soren almost dying "doesn't matter". This isn't news to Claudia as she knew about it previously, but it is a reiteration she's going to have a harder time to ignore, and it leaves the seed of doubt in her to sprout that maybe Viren really did ask Soren to kill the princes, because "everything I do, everything I ask of you, is for the future of humanity".
She challenges him, yes, but she's also quick to buy the alternative he gives for reasons I've gone into more detail elsewhere, but mostly because if she believes him it lets her keep her dad and her brother. If she believes Soren, she only gets to keep him and it fractures their family further.
So Viren is not only saying stuff to Soren, he's also saying specifically what will work best to convince Claudia, since he's willing to throw Soren under the bus in order to keep her.
That being said:
The second conversation is still between Viren and Soren, because Soren actually knows everything, and Viren knows he knows it (and that Claudia does, to a degree, too), and Viren is also trying to convince Soren that what he thought was wrong. If both Soren and Claudia are back on board, that's the easiest way to proceed further.
After Viren says he's glad they're safe, he immediately inquires about the egg. He doesn't ask about the egg at all, and isn't upset all (as far as we know, he's aware that Ezran is in power before the deal with Kasef in 3x04, which I'm inclined to think) that Soren has failed his mission. He's only upset/angry when he finds out Claudia has - his primary concern is still "for humanity" > necessarily having power for himself, the throne another means to an end - and only upset that Soren that was seemingly the reason.
Nor does he seem very concerned that Soren is still doubtful/conflicted upon leaving. Definitely not happy about it and the way the conversation has gone (Viren in 3x07 is still fairly confident he has Soren's trust and is angry when his son doesn't go through with the 'gift fire' spell) but he seems to know that Claudia's bought into it all, and that's what matters to him the most on that level.
But the scene really is a great example of how Viren placing notions of the greater good legitimately over his family is what ultimately caused his downfall in arc 1. In the 5x03 dreams/flashbacks, Viren says "You're going to be okay, that's all that matters" -> "Soren could've died!" "That doesn't matter!"
It's like he's gotten so wrapped up in his own self importance / his vision for the world at large being one that his immediate family can exist 'safely' in he's looped around to being willing to throw them away like trash when they displease/disobey him (Harrow, Soren). Viren says he's always been willing to do anything for his family, but that isn't true in basically any season (he'll let guards, Harrow, and himself die in 1x02 rather than relinquish the egg to Xadia) and that's always been his biggest difference from Callum, tbh, to me. Because Viren says it, but Callum legitimately means it
It's the classic "He cares about his kids/Soren but not enough until it's like, way too late" (whereas Callum cares too much and then it's too late but like. meta for another day) which imo is way more realistic. Most people do love and care for other people. Whether that love and care is enough, or is understood/expressed by either party, is where things get tricky
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raayllum · 11 months
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I have a question, in good faith. I just answered a question about my opinion of Season 4, and a big reason I give it a 7.5 out of 10 is that they broke the main couple up off screening a graphic novel.
Now I didn’t go into detail, but this probably takes off a whole point for me, because I don’t feel like we should have to read extra material to understand what’s happening in the main plot line. Is this the first time we’ve ever had to read extra material not for bonus information but an understanding of the main story?
Hello, yes, I love answering questions in good faith. Can't promise that I'll have a satisfactory answer, but hopefully I can provide a not overly long one, for once!
Through the Moon (the graphic novel of which you speak) is the only supplementary material (thus far) that's been released that isn't a prequel, so in that vein, I'd say yes. The graphic novel does explain that Rayla left (and shows her leaving) before the 'reveal' drop at the end of 4x01. She left approximately a month and a half after S3, so right around / on Callum's birthday (which, we didn't know it was his birthday in the graphic novel itself, so that's almost undoubtedly something that got added to S4 for Callum&Viren foils and general heartbreak reasons).
However, to me, and this also due to having friends who watch the show casually, or have not read the graphic novel Through The Moon (TTM)... I genuinely do not think you need to read it unless you don't want Rayla leaving to have been a 'surprise' (which some people like to know spoilers ahead of time, which is fair). Given that there's a timeskip and an arc wrap up (and that we actually got to see them be a cute couple in S3, not just at the last minute) some sort of shift was probably to be expected. All the plot context TTM is given pretty early on in S4, but there are also fun little connections to make as you go on rewatches, for example:
4x01 reveals that Rayla is not only not at the castle, but MIA, and that the boys don't know if she's alive/okay. The context from TTM is that her risk taking decisions were already a concern for him, which can probably be deduced from the show's canon anyway, given that he jumped off a mountain for her.
4x01 and 4x02 also show that rather than being mostly curious about unknown things like before, they actively make him agitated/anxious (Soren's secret keeping, the blank book, trying to decipher the mirror). TTM adds context to this in that Rayla told him she would let him come with her, and then went back on that promise, but canon already makes this clear in 4x01 with "I don't even know if she's alive"; he has no answers about Rayla. That is also undoubtedly one of the reasons he's agitated. However, while her lie is insult to injury, the show never brings it up as a reason he's mad at her; it was always her extended absence: "So you disappeared for two years for no reason at all?" / "Well, maybe you might know that if you'd been here the last two years." Again: the lie isn't an actual thorn in his side (seemingly) so it's a thing from TTM that is omitted, because it isn't emotionally relevant.
Then she shows up and we learn, specifically, that she went to hunt down Viren. Rayla has always been a paranoid ("Sooner or later, we're going to run into someone from 1x06, "There's danger coming, I know it" from 2x01) person with an independent streak. Rayla leaving to kill Viren because she doubts her own abilities, when she spends most of the first few seasons doubting them (particularly in S1 and S3) and fearing failure ("You let him live but killed us all") is also very in character. One of my favourite little details is that Callum struggles to say Viren's name at all ("It's something Lord -- the previous high mage left behind") until Rayla shows up ("So you must have found Viren, huh? Was he dead after all?") because that trauma - Rayla was so sure that she failed that she couldn't trust they were safe - is so intertwined.
A lot of S2, as well, spent hammering in the fact she didn't want to lose Callum (to Soren and Claudia, to his pursuit of magic, to dark magic, to death). Her leaving him behind to protect him is not something that's a big logic leap to make, I think. After all: "It's okay, Callum. I'm not asking you to come with me. Protecting that dragon doesn't just feel like the right thing to do, it feels like the right thing for me to do" (2x07) and "But... I'm not going with you. You and Ezran should take Zym. But I can't leave" (3x08) and her almost confession last but not least: "Callum please, come back! You've got to stay with me [...] I can't lose you like this, you mean too much to me" (2x09).
TTM adds context - the nightmares about Viren ruining the life she still had, and her and Callum's increasing mutual fear of losing each other. They quite honestly don't even break up. Now, I don't think things would've gone well if Callum had gone with her (relationship wise) given their differing priorities in TTM and also how they show love (for Rayla it's protection, for Callum it's togetherness), but the last conversation they actually have in TTM is
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Now, I'm not exactly expecting a casual reviewer to remember and notice all the tiny things, but I am expecting them to remember major plot points, specifically that Rayla really struggles with letting people help her (1x06 and 3x04 both leading to disasters with Zym being in danger because of it) because she doesn't feel like she deserves it, and that she has a tendency to be overly self sacrificial (too many episodes to count).
Her trying to save the dragon in S2 was heroic, yes, but also stood out to me specifically as "This tendency of risking herself is going to be something that she and Callum have to confront and work through, because it is diametrically opposed to them functioning as a long term couple/team". When she wants to stay behind and die for her parents mistakes in S3, the only reason she doesn't stick with that is because she learns that they didn't run, not that she didn't have to die even if they had. So something like this, even if not in so dramatic a way was something that I'd been expecting for a few years now. S4 and Callum's anger at her abandonment is the first time we've seen this tendency be solely in a negative light, in a lot of ways, which is really exciting, and I don't know how much they'll get back together until Rayla has had the epiphanies she needs to.
The biggest thing to me that TTM adds to S4 is that Callum isn't just upset at Rayla for leaving him, but that he's mad at her for leaving without him, specifically. He wanted to go with her, he didn't totally believe in the mission but he wanted to keep her safe, citing "I let you go into the Moon Nexus alone" (earlier in the graphic novel, and not without protest) "and I knew right away I made the biggest mistake of my life. I could have lost you." But again, I expect this sentiment to be something that is far more readily explored in S5, and is also something you can kinda piece together given how often he runs after her in the first three seasons, and him reading what's implied in show and confirmed through TTM to be her goodbye letter because she didn't think she was coming back (4x01 credits):
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TDP official also in the lead up to S4 released the goodbye letter, which we'd never read before, and it broke all of our hearts.
TLDR; to me, TTM isn't necessary unless you want a deeper read on the characters. I expect S5 to give them more of a chance to talk and perhaps explain their own actions in S4 more (again, reaffirming that fear of losing each other, which was the root of his anger and of her leaving) but I don't think TTM is necessary unless you want the specifics. All you need to know is that Rayla left to hunt down Viren and Callum has been very sad about it since. You get all of that within the first couple of episodes. The biggest question that TTM raises that S4 doesn't answer is, if she was so dead set on her mission, how and why did she convince herself it was okay to come back at all, but again: I think S5/S6 will have the answers on that.
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raayllum · 4 years
Text
tdp: where do we go from here?
or my ARC TWO (s4 and s5) predictions
So. S3 happened. A lot happened, not only in the season itself, but in the way it wrapped up 90% of the main arcs of the first main arc of the show. Even before it was announced that there would be three main arcs (and even before the seven seasons planned in total reveal, if I remember correctly) I had three main predictions
Narratively, at least one timeskip has to happen
Aaravos as endgame big bad and a unifying threat for both elves and humans to deal with on a large scale
Zym would be home by S4, and it wouldn’t fix Everything
So honestly, watching S3, and given how the season ended, I was gratified more than shocked. There were shocking moments in the season, for sure, but narrative wise, things had panned out the way I’d predicted, if not even better than I thought they would. 
I also definitely got things wrong, though. I thought they’d return Zym home a little later, Rayllum had another season to go before being canon, and that returning Zym home would mean less than it ended up doing so, as I thought it would be a gesture from just one human from one kingdom, not Duren and Katolis together from the King and crown prince, amid other elves and important humans like Janai (the new Sunfire queen) and General Amaya. 
That being said, here are my predictions going forward, as an expansion on the three I’m still holding, and the three that may lie ahead
A Timeskip
I’ve been gunning for a timeskip since March 2019, and honestly longer, if I think of when I first wanted it internally. It was something I was always very sure on narratively, just because it made too much sense, for these reasons down below:
The show had no fixed end of when Zym had to be returned. With no ticking clock (think of how in ATLA, everything was mandated by the Comet’s return) it gave an opportunity for things to stretch beyond just a few weeks, months, or even years
Seeing Zym grow into a slightly terrifying force of nature would make all too much sense, and while untrue, give weight to Viren’s words that he “would’ve become the most powerful creature in the world!”
Give Callum a reasonable amount of time, largely off screen, to connect to the other primal sources, otherwise multiple ones would have to be crammed into one or more seasons and it could begin to feel repetitious to see him connect to five other ones
Now it’s been confirmed that there will be a timeskip in between Books Three and Four. Yet because I wanted it so much, I did doubt myself a little. I also know that some people are hesitant about having a timeskip, and that’s totally understandable. (I personally got used to them because the “How to Train Your Dragon” franchise, including the tv show, has five timeskips.) The main concern seems to be of what if the timeskip is too big, but I don’t think that would happen for a number of reasons.
I’m personally betting on anytime from three months to one year as the time skip between S3 and S4, specifically six months. We don’t want to keep Aaravos cocooned for too long and have to keep flashing back for information, but long enough for things to settle. A timeskip of this manner would:
Allow Ezran time to grow and settle into his kingship in a time of peace - or working towards it in better ways than he was previously able to
Solidify Ezran’s council (Opeli and Corvus) and Soren reinstated as crown guard for the true king
Give a reasonable amount of time for Callum to more or less master sky magic and set hit sights on another arcanum
Rayla having fulfilled her duty as a Dragon Guard for a while, so that when the story picks up again her leaving it makes sense
Show off more established Rayllum, in a more secure way than in the immediate aftermath of 3x05 did
Zym can grow (and his relationship with his mother) now that he is no longer what binds the Trio together in quite the same manner
But mostly, for post-war politics which I’ll get into it down below
Post-3x09 Politics
Season three hinted at a lot of really interesting Xadian politics, and told us some really important things too. Namely that the elves are non united and each type/group seems to operate under their own command. The Dragon Queen is less of a reigning monarch and more just a monarch for the dragons themselves, which some elves then choose to serve. It also shows that among dragons there’s big issues of dissent, like Sol Regem, a previous monarch (however that works) being uncaring about burning his technical prince alive.
That’s not to say that what Ezran and to a certain extent, Katolis, did doesn’t matter. Katolis and Duren’s alliance will be stronger than ever, and with Janai as the Sunfire Queen, you’ll have her factions as well (having Amaya, who was such a prominent General at the Breach, in a relationship with her / on her side doesn’t hurt either). 
I am curious about the other human kingdoms though, as two lost their rulers and had no replacement mentioned, but they clearly aligned with Kasef. In addition, King Ahling will have survived and recovered from his encounter with the shadowy assassins, but will have to come to terms with how his son died. And it was still never confirmed to any of the human kingdoms that Xadia hadn’t staged that attack in the first place, but Viren with dark magic.
Things will be strained in more ways than one, and I’m really excited to see where it goes. And also how it can reflect in our main characters, specifically the trio... 
Political Trio Theory
This is the theory I’m most excited for it, and it hinges on our core three: Ezran, Callum, and Rayla. Each are completely different people than they were at the start of the series and they’ve grown so much and have chosen new responsibilities or paths for themselves. And of course, because it’s me and my brain, I have gone the angst route.
Ezran and Rayla’s relationship is one that is one of my favourites and has always been very sweet. They don’t tend to really disagree and Ezran was the first one to trust her, even if he was the only one out of the two princes who was her target. Rayla to a certain extent also takes care of him, and it’s Ezran in more ways than one that brings her and Callum together. So I think, to a certain degree in the next arc of the show, we’re also going to see him rip them apart. 
That’s not to say Ezran will do so maliciously or on purpose, or that I think Callum and Rayla will break up. I don’t think any of those things. But I kept thinking about Rayla’s line in 2x08: “You’re not my king. But you are my friend.” 
Rayla is still an elf from Xadia with her own duties, and her own political loyalties. Ezran also has a different responsibility to his own people, the other human kingdoms, and to upholding peace. Callum, meanwhile, is caught in between. He’s a human who will likely live in Xadia and can connect to a primal, but he’s still a prince of Katolis. He loves Rayla but Ezran is his brother and the only family (other than Amaya) that he has left. 
So basically, I think Ezran and Rayla are gonna disagree on something major, and while I think Callum will align a bit more with Rayla’s viewpoint, I think he may still choose to stand by his brother’s side. What the disagreement could be about, or why, I don’t know. But I think Callum is going to be torn between two places and people, and he’ll have to make some really hard decisions. I also think that Rayla will understand him standing by Ezran better than Ezran would if Callum just flat out sided by her, but that is just flat out speculation. 
This would also take the external conflict and internalize it hard, particularly because not only have Ezran and Rayla never disagreed to the same magnitude that Callum and Rayla did, but that they would probably work to resolve it because of the effect it’s having on Callum, too. 
Our trio has been our solid ground, to speak, for all of Arc 1, and given that Arc 2 is really going to shake things up, and the idea of peace being just as hard as war (but more worthwhile) I wouldn’t be surprised to see it extremely tested before they re-solidify, stronger than ever.
The Coins
When we see Viren after the fall, it’s unknown if the bag of coins is with him. However we do know that Rayla knows there are elves in there, and that Gren knowns Runaan is one of them. Rayla also knows that her parents didn’t run away and would therefore think them worthy of being saved. 
Viren and Claudia being spotted would be motivation enough for her to leave the Dragon Guard, perhaps, along with Callum and some allies to try and find the coins. I also think a confrontation between Claudia, Callum, and Rayla is coming eventually, given how messy their history is and how much resentment Claudia would hold towards Rayla (who is the reason Viren died, after all). 
I think by the end of Arc 2 (aka s5) Rayla’s parents and Runaan will be out of the coins so we have everyone together before the final Arc and all the fun possibilities and character work that can bring. It also might be one of those moments, since S5 will presumably end on a terrible note (especially since Arc 1 ended on such a high note at the end of the day) in a very ‘Empire-Strikes-Back’ sort of way, with of “at least we have this good thing that happened / we’re all alive.” 
Aaravos Backstory
We got more hints of this in S3, but given that something is going to be emerging out of that cocoon at one point, I wouldn’t be surprised if we get more of the full story. Especially since now Claudia is embroiled in Viren’s relationship with Aaravos, which might deteriorate while hers simultaneously improves.
I also think it’s important to get out Aaravos’ backstory, and why he was imprisoned, and all of the possibly good and evil things he’s done explained to the audience at least, so we can understand the full weight and consequences of why him getting out of that mirror is a “Oh shit no” moment when the time comes. 
But yeah, that’s basically all I got for now, and I hope you enjoy my theories! Feel free to add yours or discuss them down below! :)
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raayllum · 5 years
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setup and payoff: what’s the purpose of the drawing scene?
Like many of us, I was yelling throughout most of 2x07 for various reasons, but one thing in particular stood out to me. It’s a long standing headcanon that Callum draws Rayla—and similar sentiments can be seen for any ship that has one character is an artist, for them to draw their S.O.—but then we actually got see it onscreen, and it was beautiful.
But I started thinking about it, and... there is one very specific purpose in mind for showing us this scene. After all, consider the alternative: Rayla and Callum have their talk on the cliffside, Callum watches Rayla leave, and then goes after her. Maybe he sees something that makes him think of Dark Magic, maybe that seed isn’t planted, maybe he goes back to Ezran and they talk and he decides to after her. Either way, I think it’s clear the writers had a lot of possible options as to how Callum would decide to go after Rayla and use Dark Magic to protect her. (Just typing that makes my Rayllum shipping heart pound, but anyway)
So, why did they all go with the one we know and love?
Simply: to foreshadow Callum’s eventual / changing feelings for Rayla.
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There are many reasons Callum, within the show, is drawing her. She’s at the forefront of his mind, he’s frustrated that she might seriously get herself hurt but feels he can’t do anything - so it’s a slight venting process - but I also think there’s another, more heartbreaking reason: if she doesn’t come back, he wants to make sure he remembers what she looks like. Like his drawing of the primal stone, of his mother, and of Claudia in a way, everything that Callum has drawn in his sketchbook, he’s lost one way or another. This way, Callum can remember her if things really do go wrong, and it’s plan that’s he worried they will as he starts pressing so hard on the paper he breaks his pencil, and this was his face after Rayla left:
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But back to my first point: this scene is here, at its core, to show how much Callum’s feelings have changed. We see a few of his past drawings were of Claudia, a girl he had a very big crush on.
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But all he focuses on now when he sees it in the book of her hands, and realizes: that’s how I can help Rayla, no matter the cost to me. It’s clear that after the end of 2x03, Callum has no more romantic feelings towards Claudia. He looks at her with straight venom in his eyes when he confronts her and Soren later on in this episode.
But having Claudia be drawn in this book, by Callum, in the past only to show that he is now drawing Rayla is no coincidence, but careful foreshadowing. My prediction? By the end of s3, Callum’s gonna know he’s got it bad.
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