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p-redux · 7 months

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You know, I am stunned at the lack of logic and critical thinking in this fandom. It’s like those with extreme opinions have such strong confirmation bias that they can’t get out of their own way. When I read some of these posts on lots of different blogs, I am struck at the logical questions that are never truly answered- well except by ad hominem attacks and logical fallacies and extensive conspiracy theories.

1. Wouldn’t a TV show that’s not on a well-known and popular streaming service love the PR they’d get if their costars were actually in love and in a real life relationship? What value does the production company gain by keeping them hidden for almost 10 years? I can’t logically see that it would bring more profits. So we’re supposed to love a loyal, brave, committed, and family-oriented Jamie, but we need a single, sexy Sam to sell the show?? Cognitive dissonance anyone?

2. Now that it’s well established that Sam and Caitriona essentially ARE Outlander and are EPs, wouldn’t they have the power to say no more if this “ narrative” was true? If they quit, there’s no OL. Couldn’t they refuse to film anything else if they aren’t allowed to tell the truth (if it’s hidden)? It’s interesting that Ron and Terri are married, Maril and Matt have twins together, but S and C were forbidden to be together? I would think that could be a legitimate lawsuit. Didn’t they renegotiate new contracts since the first season?

3. Do people actually believe that Sam and Caitriona are good people, philanthropic people, hard working entrepreneurial people, wonderful human beings but at the same time think that either of them would actually lie about their own children? With Sam’s childhood, people honestly think he would deny his kids AND be away from them for months? That they both would lie and deceive us about her father’s funeral?

4. So it’s been 10 years and NOT ONE person associated with either of them has publicly and clearly stated, with no doubts or other possible connotations, that they are really together? No costars? No personal friends? No teacher of their kids? No hospital personnel where the kids were born? No extras on OL? No crew members- even those that have been gone long enough that any NDA they signed about the production would have expired? No hotel staff where they may have traveled with their kids? No former “fake gfs” who might be pissed? No friends of “ fake gfs” that want to defend their friend and set the record straight? Not one person who has been associated with OL who might just think this is harmful to children? No photos of them with kids in public- clear photos, not reflections or someone in the background that we cannot clearly identify? Not videos where we cannot tell who is actually there? Wouldn’t someone somewhere have gotten a photo of them together as a family? In ten years? Have you P, seen evidence that I haven’t? I have seen nothing but reflections, blurry images, unidentifiable people in the background. Am I missing something?

5. About their chemistry- they aren’t the only actors I have ever seen that have great chemistry but no real romantic relationship. There are lots of them. It’s like people don’t know what actors actually do. So much of chemistry in acting between actors is about trust and respect for the work. Even some of the best chemistry has been between actors who didn’t really like each other in real life, but were able to use their chemistry and their talent to create characters we believed loved each other.

6. Lastly, I can’t wrap my brain around liking and respecting these two actors for their work and for their real lives, while claiming every day they are lying to me.

People see what they want to see or what they need to see to support their position.

Occam’s Razor tells me that the simplest explanation is often the best one.

Hopefully when OL finally ends, these two will get some peace.

Now, watch the “but what about ______? “start.

Bless you Anon for summarizing everything I and countless other SANE fans have been saying in the Outlander fandom for the last 9 years. The thing is...some Extreme Shippers continue to ship for a few reasons. I put them in these categories:

1. OG shippers who have invested SO many YEARS in their SamCait fantasy ship. They want to "save face." It's embarrassing to acknowledge that you were fed and believed a LIE for so long. Their egos can't handle it, so they'd rather double down, and find a way to pretzel their brains around things that are obvious facts to the rest of us. They don't want to feel like they "lost." So, they just keep on denying the TRUTH and the mountains of evidence showing that Sam and Cait are not a couple in real life. The alternative is too painful to them. It's been too much time, too much energy, too much of themselves invested in the ship, and they are missing something in their real lives. The ship fills that void.

2. New fans to Outlander who have recently discovered it. They've gone down the rabbit hole of shipper Tumblr, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter X accounts and they haven't climbed their way out yet to blogs like mine, and other Non-Shippers.

3. The Fake Shippers who pretend to be shippers to MAKE MONEY off those still clinging on to the life boats. There are still bloggers and shipper groups who know they have a captive audience in shippers holding out hope that some of what the original shipper leaders sold them might actually be true. These fake shippers manipulate gifs, pictures, videos, SHOW shippers what they WANT to see. They keep them hanging on with podcasts, magazine, subscriptions. They sell them trips to Scotland, conventions t-shirts, mugs, daily "proof" that Sam and Cait secretly live together with their 5 bairns. And because con artists are experts at conning people, they make everything believable...and some poor souls buy what they're selling. Literally BUY 💵 what they're selling. Sadly, this fandom is filled with a lot of retired women with disposable income, who are lonely or disillusioned with their own lives. And they are easy pickings for the money hungry fake shippers.

So, in summary, the reason there are still some SamCait Shippers is a combination of fake shippers SELLING them the fantasy AND women needing to STILL hold onto the fantasy. With a few actually mentally unwell women thrown in here and there, who have diagnosable mental health issues.

It's actually quite sad. If only they had gotten off the ship with the rest of us years ago, they could have been enjoying celebrating REAL love. Instead, they're on a constantly rocky ship that causes them disappointment more often than not. Here, on terra firma, no one needs Dramamine. It's lovely. Because it's REAL. 💞

#samheughan #caitrionabalfe #extremeshippers #outlander #fake shippers #extremeshipperlies #logic #3 types of shippers #fake ship #faux ship #real love #tait #reality #the truth #there is only one #non-shippers #shippers

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difeisheng · 21 hours

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A Jianghu Mystery of the Middle Xi: The Tomb of Li Xiangyi

By Qiling, University of □□ (2024)

Left: A photograph of the inscribed text at Li Xiangyi's tomb, reading, "The grave of the Sigu Sect's departed Sect Leader, Li Xiangyi". Right: Artist's sketch renditions from eye-level frontal and aerial side views, recreating how the tomb may have appeared during the Xi dynasty.

Among the numerous important archaeological finds from the Xi Dynasty, the tomb of Li Xiangyi is not the most well-known, nor has it yielded any artifacts of particular intrigue, yet it has raised questions about certain points in history since its discovery. The tomb constitutes a small site, near a mountainous overlook which should have received little common traffic at the time of construction. Its structure is in line with some other aristocratic burials of the Middle Xi period: aboveground, with a chamber at the center of a raised rectangular dais several meters wide, large enough to bear only a single individual. A stone marker, which has survived in legible condition until today, declares it the tomb of Li Xiangyi, leader of the Sigu jianghu sect.

Records about Li Xiangyi are found at other archaeological sites contemporary with this tomb, and so his name is not an obscure one. The Sigu Sect complex has already undergone excavation for nearly two decades, with evidence that Li Xiangyi spent several years there as its first sect leader and founder. His tomb is within two hours' walking distance of the Sigu site, though isolated in its location, compared to the Sigu Sect's grand mountain entrance. (The complex itself was inhabited well after his death; bamboo slips cite Qiao Wanmian as the Sigu Sect's next major leader some years after, who oversaw it for several more decades into the later Xi). In addition, the Baichuan-Pudu site, closer to the eastern coast and historically the headquarters for the Baichuan Court, is affiliated with Li Xiangyi. Its origins apparently lay in an offshoot of the Sigu Sect, which grew into its own independent legal organization after his death.

Legends surrounding Li Xiangyi's life have been well-documented, both at Sigu and Baichuan-Pudu, but also in books and transcriptions of oral stories at sites around the country. These are dated to both the Middle and Late Xi periods, as well as a few scattered mentions in writings from the following dynasty. As a jianghu sect leader and swordsman, Li Xiangyi's reputation truly preceded him. Some tales speak of his early accomplishments, ridding towns of villainous tyrants and defeating criminals. Others talk about the founding of the Sigu Sect when Li Xiangyi was seventeen, and his subsequent missions leading his fellow swordsmen to protect the borders of the country. Not all of these narratives can be verified with surviving historical proof, and given Li Xiangyi's status in the shifting canon of folklore, the percentage that are hyperbole or fiction is likely significant. However, one that should be true, and is the most frequently told story throughout these sources, is that of Li Xiangyi's death.

All texts place Li Xiangyi as having died relatively young, with some providing a specified age, generally around twenty. He perished in a duel with Di Feisheng, leader of the Jinyuan Alliance, a rival jianghu organization and presumed threat to the Sigu Sect. As the sources say, the Jinyuan Alliance killed Li Xiangyi's sect brother, Shan Gudao, and in retaliation he used the Sigu Sect to launch a war against the Jinyuan Alliance. His final battle was the last in this war, dying in the East Sea on Di Feisheng's ship. The Jinyuan Alliance in return was badly defeated by the Sigu Sect; excavations at its first compound in the last five years have shown evidence of siege, with fire having destroyed large parts of the buildings. Afterward, the Sigu Sect disbanded without Li Xiangyi, with only the Baichuan Court continuing to function, before being resurrected one decade later.

Given this knowledge we have about Li Xiangyi, the matter of his burial should be straightforward. He had a tremendous impact on the jianghu in the few short years that he stood at its peak. He died heroically, if tragically, to obtain justice for a brother. He was honoured with a tomb, standing guard over the sect he dedicated his youth to. Why, then, is said tomb regarded as somewhat of a mystery?

This tomb was first stumbled upon during extended surveys of the Sigu site territory, with excavation taking place within the last two years. Parts of the stone chamber and foundation of the dais have withstood time, as have most things left inside. The tomb bears no signs of looting. However, there are some details which, alongside discoveries from other archaeological sites, contribute to a shadow of uncertainty on the existing narrative of Li Xiangyi's life.

Firstly, is that the austerity of the tomb does not line up with what we know of Li Xiangyi. Although overall sufficient enough for someone of his great reputation, the tomb is rather plainly embellished. There are an unexpectedly small number of burial objects inside, with those present being neither rare nor expensive. For all his contributions to the jianghu, less money and resources were poured into remembrance of Li Xiangyi than seems proper for his time.

Secondly, and far more significantly, is that the tomb holds no human remains. Whether the fact of Li Xiangyi having no recovered body to bury was made public is unknown; if it was, we do not have record of it. Certainly those who arranged for the tomb to be built and sealed would have carried this with them the rest of their lives, but no one else may be accounted for. Granted, it is not impossible for a disappeared body to have been common knowledge or presumption, as Li Xiangyi was killed at sea with no guarantee of being found. Yet this, combined with the ordinary appearance of the tomb, causes the entire site to appear... a nominal thing. Constructed to maintain acknowledgement of Li Xiangyi's absence, though his death was only marked by words, rather than a physical state.

He was given a tomb, but was Li Xiangyi truly dead before it was built?

In terms of the aforementioned other archaeological site findings, there is one that potentially implicates Li Xiangyi's death at an interesting political junction, within the context of the dynasty. The Xi Dynasty was unstable and relatively short-lived, established after taking back the Central Plains and adjacent territories from the southern conquering state of Nanyin. It endured for just under two centuries, the first of which was fraught with pockets of conflict, with many jianghu skirmishes such as that between the Sigu Sect and the Jinyuan Alliance. The greatest threat to the Xi Dynasty (until its fall) came one hundred years after its founding. Recovered archival records from the Xi capital excavation report that remaining Nanyin loyalists attempted a coup, supported by jianghu organizations, including a restored Jinyuan Alliance (although whether Di Feisheng was still its leader at this time is unclear). This attack was ultimately unsuccessful, but important to note is that the leader of this renewed Nanyin force is described as being Shan Gudao, Li Xiangyi's former sect brother.

Although Li Xiangyi brought the Sigu Sect into a war upon news of Shan Gudao's death, that demise seems to have been faked, with Shan Gudao disappearing underground only to reappear as part of a later rebellion. Could Li Xiangyi have been aware of this? Was his reaction to Shan Gudao's apparent death genuine? Or part of a coordinated plan, using him as a reason to destroy the Jinyuan Alliance, to eradicate any future resistance? Did Li Xiangyi, too, fake his death alongside Shan Gudao, in service of a shared cause? Were remnants of the Sigu Sect instructed to build an empty tomb, cementing Li Xiangyi as a dead hero so he could work in the shadows of the jianghu instead?

This is merely speculation, contradicted by the fact that if Li Xiangyi had indeed done as such, unlike Shan Gudao, after his duel with Di Feisheng he has no reappearance in any surviving records or at any archaeological site. As well, Li Xiangyi should have had no motivation for committing to such a scheme, with even loyalty to Shan Gudao a stretch for putting all the lives of the Sigu Sect on the line. That being said, history has a way of surprising the present, and this theory may not be entirely ruled out. At any rate, Shan Gudao's survival is a baffling accompaniment to Li Xiangyi's (lack of a) burial, one which will hopefully receive clarifying answers in future archaeological developments.

Perhaps the strangest piece of the puzzle concerning the end of Li Xiangyi's life, however, is Di Feisheng. After the Jinyuan Alliance was scattered by the Sigu Sect, stories regarding Li Xiangyi declared him dead and disappeared. Yet not unlike Shan Gudao, he became known in the jianghu once more about ten years later, witnessing the Nanyin's attempted coup and living long after. His tomb remained untouched, and was excavated eight years ago as part of the greater Tianji Mountain site project. The location of Di Feisheng's tomb is surprising, not only because it directly links him to the powerful and wealthy He clan of Tianji Manor, but also because he was buried next to their sole young master during the Xi Dynasty, Fang Duobing.

The son of financial minister Fang Zeshi and engineering master He Xiaohui, Fang Duobing became a notable youxia travelling the jianghu in the emperor's name, assigned in the wake of the attempted Nanyin coup. According to palace records, he was also betrothed to Princess Zhaoling, although the marriage agreement was eventually formally dissolved. What is otherwise known of Fang Duobing was his admiration of Li Xiangyi, having styled himself as a follower and disciple of him during his youth. As well, one eye-catching artifact among Fang Duobing's burial goods was a preserved wooden replica of a blade, with Li Xiangyi's name carved near the hilt. Likely a children's toy, prized and kept safe throughout Fang Duobing's life.

The exact nature of the relationship between Di Feisheng and Fang Duobing is not entirely certain, but it must have been a very close one, for Di Feisheng to have the privilege of burial on the Tianji estate. This topic justifies future study for our understanding of the Tianji He clan, already known in prior generations for its socially subversive relationships, but pertinent to Li Xiangyi is that the man whose most infamous act was to kill him, was laid to rest beside one who revered him. Why was there such a bond between these two figures, if the stories of Li Xiangyi's death have any truth to them? Did Li Xiangyi really die by Di Feisheng's blade? Did Li Xiangyi's empty tomb, plausibly signifying Di Feisheng's innocence, alter his relationship with Fang Duobing? Or indeed, did Li Xiangyi, the man himself, have a part to play in this?

No traces of him from this time remain in the archaeological record, true. But this should not be taken to mean without doubt that he was not alive then at all.

The discovery of Li Xiangyi's tomb has been an exciting development for studying this era of the Xi Dynasty, but it has also outlined doubt in areas of one man's life that were previously taken as likely facts. Li Xiangyi's tomb is scarcely fitting for his name as a founding sect leader, built more for the sake of its existence than anything else, and there was no body sealed inside to begin with. In addition, Shan Gudao— someone dear to Li Xiangyi— established a precedent of faking his death. Di Feisheng, known across the jianghu for killing the man, held a close bond with someone later in life who had personally looked up to Li Xiangyi, and so he may not have been fully responsible for Li Xiangyi's death to begin with.

What truly happened to Li Xiangyi, resulting in a tomb such as this? The past holds the answer, knowing things that we do not. Hopefully the future of archaeology will continue leading to new discoveries, and allow us to more completely understand the legend that was Li Xiangyi.

#this is probably a better archaeological research paper than the one i wrote on sanxingdui a few days ago #anyways hi yes. i just impulse wrote a fake archaeological paper for fun. enrichment. whatever #also i tried not to sound too pop culture archaeology in this #to any other anthropology or archaeology majors. if it comes off that way i am sorry </3 it's past 4am rn #mysterious lotus casebook #li xiangyi #di feisheng #fang duobing #ashton writes fic #difang #<- to any difang shippers just sit with me for a bit and think about these two being buried together

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