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ineffable-romantics · 9 months

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Some thoughts on why and how I believe Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship would incorporate sex/why I do not read them as wholly asexual:

This is something I've seen the most discourse about in this fandom, and I've had a few thoughts of my own that I really wanted to expand upon in a full meta/character analysis post. I do understand that this can be a contentious topic, so first, let me clarify a few things:

First of all, this is going to be long. Tbh it probably won't be that organized either. I ramble and I'm not very good at editing, so just... you know. Be warned. (*Hi, it's me from 2 days after writing this; I'm really not kidding, it's LONG)

These are all my own thoughts. They might not be hot takes, because recently I've seen more than a few people come to the same conclusions on a lot of these points as I have. But I've also had these notes in my drafts for about a week and a half now, and have been continuously adding to it as things have occurred to me. This post is essentially just somewhere for me to collect the separate but related meta I've been kicking around in my head.

I fully respect anyone who does see and prefer an asexual reading of this relationship. These are my own thoughts and interpretations as someone who is not asexual. I am in the LGBT+ community, so while I do know a few things about the asexuality spectrum, I am by no means an expert.

This is NOT something I expect, need, or even necessarily want the show (or, God forbid, Neil's tumblr ask box) to address. Tonally, it's just not that kind of show. Newt and Anathema's sex scene was very much played for laughs, and it worked for that reason. If the show found a way to address it in a way that was both appropriate for the tone of the show and ultimately satisfying, then great! But there is so much more to this relationship than sex, and I didn't need a kiss to confirm their love, so I certainly don't need a sex scene. As immortal beings (as I assume they'll stay) there is so much of the rest of their lives we'll never get to see. You can headcanon them as asexual and potentially be right. I can headcanon them as not and be equally potentially right. Again, these are just a collection of my own thoughts, because I think the question of sexuality (or lack thereof) is just as interesting a facet of these characters as any other.

Note: Tbh I've been second-guessing this whole post and debated deleting the whole thing several times for being silly or unnecessary, bc I don't want anyone to think that this is the only thing I care about when it comes to this story/characters. But if nothing else, it's inspired me to write in a way that nothing has in a very long time, so I've decided it's worth continuing, if for no other reason than that.

This is going to be a mixed bag of textual reading, subtextual reading, and a full-on reach or two. It's been a while since I've been in an English class, but if my teachers expected me to find a deeper meaning behind blue curtains, you can expect me to read too deeply into the symbolism of a loaded rifle or an ox rib. (This is probably not what my professors had in mind when grading my literary analysis papers but oh well) My point is, if it feels like a reach, I'm as aware of it as you are. I am in no way saying that all (or even any) of my points made were deliberate on the part of Neil or the actors or the writers or the directors. I am no longer the delulu Apple Tree Yard child of my youth, I promise.

If anything said here is in any way offensive or hurtful to anyone in the asexual community, please do not hesitate to message me or comment and let me know exactly what it was. I promise you it is not my intention to do so, and am happy to clarify or outright edit anything that reads that way.

With all that being said, let's talk about why I think Crowley and Aziraphale would absolutely fuck nasty incorporate sex into their relationship.

Note: I am out of practice with essay writing, so I think I'll just go down the bullet points of notes I have been making, and expand on each as best I can

Food

Where better to start than with Aziraphale's introduction to Pleasures Of The Flesh? (Just a heads up, this entire post may feel very Aziraphale-heavy, and with good reason).

This might be the least hot take here. We've all seen the Job minisode. We've all seen That Scene.

Whether this was intentional or not, the symbolism here is off the charts. Eve was tempted by an apple. So why not go a similar route and tempt Aziraphale with another fruit, or cheese, or bread, or literally anything else for his first experience with food? Instead, we go with a huge, glistening slab of fresh meat that he proceeds to absolutely go feral upon, moaning and gasping into his meal while Crowley watches with what definitely doesn't look to be disgust or even satisfaction with a good temptation. There's surprise at the ferocity of Aziraphale's appetite, certainly. But ultimately he looks to be intensely fascinated by it, while the thunder crashes, the music crescendos, and the earth literally shakes around them.

(It's also interesting to note how very little it takes for Crowley to tempt him with the ox rib. One murmured suggestion, a bit of unwavering eye contact, and vavoom Aziraphale immediately meets him in the middle.)

Cut to Aziraphale devouring the rest of the meat with Crowley splayed back on a makeshift bed, drinking wine and continuing to watch him indulge through half-lidded eyes. Outside a thunderstorm rages while they're learning secrets about each other in warm flickering firelight. It's cosy, it's intimate, and if they'd thrown in a bearskin throw blanket, it might as well be a post-coital scene straight out of Game of Thrones.

The next time (chronologically) we see them discuss food is when Aziraphale "tempts" Crowley with oysters in Rome. So Crowley first tempts Aziraphale with meat and then Aziraphale tempts Crowley with what is widely regarded to be an aphrodisiac. Interesting.

And then chronologically after that, the Arrangement begins to form, which has always reeked of a friends with benefits situation. Just to throw that in there.

It's What Humans Do

In the very first episode, we're shown Gabriel's obvious disgust and bewilderment towards Aziraphale eating sushi, calling it "gross matter" and being proud of the fact that he does not sully his body with it. Aziraphale initially tries to defend his own enjoyment in it, before passing it off as something that humans do, as something he simply has to do in order to blend in (which we know very well is not the case).

He does this again in season 2, passing off Nina and Maggie being in love as "something humans do". But it isn't, is it? Angels are beings of love, and can sense it, and understand very well what it is... up to a point. Even romantic love is obviously within their wheelhouse, given what we now know happened between Gabriel and Beelzebub (we'll come back to them).

What the "humans do" that angels wouldn't understand is messy, physical forms of love.

But here's the thing: Aziraphale and Crowley love doing what the humans do. They love drinking, they (or at least Aziraphale) love eating. They love music. Crowley loves driving and sleeping and watching rom-coms and sitcoms. Aziraphale loves reading and doing magic and earning little licenses and certificates for achievement in his various hobbies. They love to playact at being human so much that they've stopped playacting and started building a genuinely human lifestyle for themselves and with each other.

Once together in an unambiguously romantic sense, why do we think they wouldn't also want to explore one of the most prominent, intimate, powerful human expressions of love and desire with each other?

Angels, Demons, & Asexuality

Here's where I really want to clarify that in no way do I mean that sex is necessary for a healthy, fulfilling, and loving romantic relationship, or that the lack of desire for sex makes you any less human. Asexuality is a sexuality as valid and human as any. What I would say is that it is definitely in the human minority compared to allosexuality.

Angels and demons, on the other hand, are predominately asexual. Sexless/genderless unless Making An Effort. (Which, btw, is a concept introduced as early as the original book; why even bring it up as a possibility? Why not keep angels/demons being sexless/asexual as a hard and fast rule, if not to open up the potential for later use? Chekhov's Effort, if you will. And isn't that something that Aziraphale in particular is shown to do time and time again? He makes an effort in French and driving and magic, doesn't he?)

And this is why I don't believe Aziraphale and Crowley necessarily need to be asexual, narratively. There is already a huge amount of ace rep within the angels and demons (and no, not just the horrible ones. Muriel also doesn't "drink the tea" and has no reason or desire thus far to Make An Effort, and there are certainly other angels and demons who aren't horrible like the archangels seem to be who likely wouldn't Make An Effort either).

The central conflict for Aziraphale and Crowley is that they are on their own side, the ones who went native, the ones who are so different in so many ways from their respective hives. It would make sense for them to also break away from traditional angel/demon asexuality.

I say "traditional angel/demon asexuality", because I would also like to note that I would absolutely not rule out demisexuality for either of them. This post is being written to as a response to people who specifically believe that they (like the rest of the angels/demons seem to be) would be sex-averse in a relationship, and that it wouldn't be a factor in their relationship. I could easily read them as demisexual, but I do think there would be no real way of verifying this, because they've never been able to form as close an emotional relationship with anyone else but each other. Certainly not in heaven, and I can't imagine they would be able to form that kind of attachment with any of the humans, who they love and emulate but ultimately regard as the separate species they are. So yes, they could either be allosexual or demisexual, in my opinion.

Then again, now that I think about it, Making An Effort itself could be a great metaphor for demisexuality, since they would be entirely sexless/asexual until they have enough of an emotional connection with someone to consciously manifest otherwise. Since the other angels and demons don't generally form those types of emotional connections with anyone, there hasn't been a precedent for it.

Except...

Brielzebub

We do have a precedent for it now, don't we? Gabriel and Beelzebub fell in love. They are a direct foil for Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship, speedrunning right through their courtship and finding their happily ever after on the other side of things.

For being such a 1 to 1 comparison, it feels deliberate that they did not kiss. They held hands, they were gooey with each other, but they did not kiss. That feels like such a deliberate thing to omit when you know what's to come at the end of the episode between Crowley and Aziraphale.

And going back to the food = sex metaphor for a moment, let's notice how even as they fell in love over the years, even when pints and crisps were there on the table in front of them, they never felt the desire to reach out for them. They didn't need to. It's a date (love story) even if you aren't eating dinner (sleeping together).

Yes, I know Jim liked hot chocolate. No, I am not counting it because I don't consider Jim and Gabriel to be the same person with the same proclivities, and Jim was highly suggestible at the time anyway.

Gabriel and Brielzebub's big happily ever after moment (as of now) was one between two asexual supernatural beings. They did not need to kiss to drive the point home. They showed what Crowley and Aziraphale could have, if they would only acknowledge it.

Crowley & Aziraphale's Dissatisfaction

But they do have that already, don't they? If you really think about it, what do Gabriel and Beelzebub do with each other that Crowley and Aziraphale don't already? They hold hands, they spend time together, they create little rituals, they give gifts, they're visibly and verbally affectionate with each other, etc. They are more or less already in a romantic asexual marriage relationship with each other, aren't they?

And it doesn't seem to be enough for either of them.

At the beginning of the season, Crowley is immediately shown to be unsatisfied with the way things are. Obviously part of it comes from living in his car, but it seems to be more than that (especially since Aziraphale makes it clear that the bookshop is just as much Crowley's as his, implying that he could have been living there the whole time and is choosing not to, for some reason?). You could argue he's feeling unmoored without Hell telling him what to do, but isn't that what he wanted? Isn't that what he still wants, by the end of the season? All season long, he's never indicated the desire for a new job, or a new project. He stopped the apocalypse because he wanted the freedom to openly spend time with Aziraphale, to spend his time on Earth however he sees fit. Until Gabriel arrives, he has exactly that (minus a flat).

So where does the dissatisfaction come from? And if it represents anything to do with his relationship, what does he want out of it that he isn't getting already?

I think Crowley only really comes to the realisation of what he's missing when Nina names it for him, not only putting them in the category of romantic, but physical (outright asking if they are sleeping together). These two posts [1], [2] go into more detail about what I mean, but I think it really pushes him into acknowledging that their relationship is more human than either of them have stopped to consider, and what that might mean as far as everything a human relationship can entail.

After all, Nina and Maggie only advised that he should talk to Aziraphale, make clear his feelings. The decision to kiss him, to tip them over the edge from nonphysical to physical, that was all him. And no, kissing isn't sex, but I wonder how taboo even that might be in the kind of all-encompassing asexuality most angels seem to identify with. (If they're disgusted by food and drink, I can only imagine what they think of snogging, much less sex.)

Aziraphale doesn't have this moment of someone observing their relationship from the outside. He loves Crowley, and as of 1941 probably even knows he's in love with him in a way that Crowley doesn't understand yet. Which makes sense, since love is technically his job, he'd be more likely to recognise it for what it is.

However, Aziraphale's reference for romance and relationships is Jane Austen. It's chaste. It's dancing and dinner and doing sweet things for each other and roses and candles and handholding. He contextualises his love for Crowley in that soft fantasy sort of way, where it's there, it's obviously there, but it's neat and easy and unspoken. Not to quote Glee in this, the year of our lord 2023, but it's all very "the touch of the fingertips is as sexy as it gets".

Someone should tell that to Aziraphale's face, then.

I'm not going to pretend I know what Michael Sheen's script notes were, but there were definitely some Choices™ made. Because yes, there were plenty of moments in both seasons with Aziraphale looking at Crowley in a sweet, loving, smitten way. And then there were moments that were yearning.

But yearning for what, exactly? All of those sappy Jane Austen tropes already apply to the two of them. So why are there moments where Aziraphale is looking Crowley up and down like the last eclair in the window and licking his lips and visibly exhaling like he's trying to get in control of himself (see: Bastille scene + Crowley telling Muriel to ask him if they have any other questions about love)? Why is Aziraphale not only unconcerned when Crowley shoves him bodily up against a wall in s1, but staring at his lips and a beat too late in noticing Sister Mary's arrival? Why are some of his lines so suggestive? I'm sorry, but the car ride after the church explosion might as well have been the beginning of a Pizza Man porn with a really weird Blitz theme. If even my mother picked up on that vibe, I can't imagine it wasn't intentional on part of both the dialogue and the delivery.

(This section may feel like more of a reach/joke, but I'm really only 20% joking. These are writers and actors who are EXTREMELY good at their jobs; they know what they were doing here.)

More importantly, I don't think Aziraphale is even aware that there is more to what he wants. He lives in the Jane Austen fantasy and it never even occurs to him that he might be interested in anything further. It never even occurs to him that, as an angel, there is anything further to be interested in in the first place. Until Crowley forces it to occur to him. Just like I believe Nina forced Crowley to confront the idea that romantic love is what he's been feeling all along, I believe Crowley forced Aziraphale to confront the idea that physical intimacy is something he's been wanting, without even realising.

Aziraphale's Hedonism

Expanding on Aziraphale for a moment. We talked about his relationship with food, but we all know that Aziraphale is defined by his love of things that Feel Good.

It isn't just that he and Crowley love human things. Aziraphale loves the best of the best, or at least his version of it. He doesn't just love food, he loves going to fancy restaurants. He doesn't just love clothes, he loves soft, cosy, warm, plush clothes, or shiny, flashy, bougie fashion. He loves the warmth of tea and cocoa, loves getting drunk, and sitting in a comfy chair in the sunlight. He doesn't just experience, he indulges.

Given the emphasis put on things that Aziraphale loves just because they Feel Good, it feels narratively strange to assume that he wouldn't enjoy the feeling of being touched, or that he wouldn't be willing to try it, at least once, with someone he cared very deeply for. And just like the ox rib, I think that once he gets the first taste of things, he would absolutely tip over into complete and utter self-indulgence.

Dancing

I also think that dancing could be construed as a huge metaphor here. After all, we're told flat-out that angels don't Dance. Except one.

I would argue that Aziraphale, in fact, Made An Effort to learn how to Dance. He threw himself into the gavotte with delight (at a Victorian gay club; noted) and worked hard to be good at it. He's chomping at the bit to Dance with Crowley, working up the nerve to ask him with undeniably romantic intent and eagerness. So, angels don't Dance... unless they Make An Effort to do so.

We are told that demons, on the other hand, do Dance, but not well. Makes sense, since they're the ones who would want to encourage a deadly sin like lust, but have as little understanding of human love and physical intimacy as the angels. Crowley, however, is shown to be an excellent dancer at the ball, especially in his compatibility with Aziraphale.

(But Aziraphale WandaVisioned the ball so everyone knew how to dance! Yes, he did. However, the rest of the brainwashing doesn't seem to affect Crowley in any way, and they did actually live through the time period where this sort of dancing was a social norm; I'd be surprised if he never needed to learn. After all, the demons can't spell either, and Crowley is at least functionally literate, as far as we know.)

As of today, it's also been confirmed that when Aziraphale asked Crowley to dance, Crowley replied with "you don't dance." Not "WE don't dance". So going along with the metaphor, Crowley is just now discovering that Dancing is something Aziraphale is interested in at all, much less with him, and not denying that he himself is interested in Dancing. In his defense, I believe he was asleep for a few years while Aziraphale was learning the gavotte, so he wasn't exactly aware of Aziraphale's hot girl summer.

Love Languages

I want to expand on that; Crowley and Aziraphale's compatibility. Specifically in regards to their individual love languages.

We all know Crowley's love language is Acts of Service. I don't think there's any debate there. He loves it, Aziraphale loves it, they're both aware of it, we're all aware of it, God and Satan are aware of it, no surprise there.

You may disagree with me, but I believe Aziraphale's love language is Physical Touch, for a number of reasons. One of which being his aforementioned hedonism. Aziraphale likes things that Feel Good, remember? He likes soft clothes, and well-worn books. Neil himself has said that they like holding hands. And any time he is taken by surprise (Brielzebub getting together, the wave of love in Tadfield, etc.) what is the first thing he does? Reaches out for Crowley. He stops him with a hand to the chest in the pub. He leads him by the hand to the dance floor. He guides him by the waist in the graveyard. He reaches out during the entire Brielzebub scene, whether he can reach Crowley or not. Despite his own turmoil, he grasps at Crowley's back during the kiss.

The one time Crowley reaches out for him (not counting the kiss yet; we'll get there), he is aggressively pushed against a wall (by someone he loves and trusts) with a complete and utter lack of concern (and perhaps some interest, depending on how you read it).

And when he isn't reaching out for anyone, or there isn't anyone to reach out to? Well, he's wringing his own hands together, squeezing his own fingers, as if to find that physical comfort in himself.

So. With that theory in mind, we have Aziraphale (Physical Touch) + Crowley (Acts of Service). Throw in 6000+ years of deep love, cherished companionship, and forcibly repressed longing, and there is a very real potential of this combination resulting in fierce sexual compatibility. Where Aziraphale would want to touch and be touched, to indulge in physical pleasure with someone he adores, in the same the way he indulges in every other fine thing in his life. And where Crowley would want to indulge him in return, to give him everything he wants, and to take pleasure in Aziraphale's pleasure, in the same way he enjoys watching him take joy in food everything else.

So Aziraphale is an angel who is insecure about his own less-than-holy desires, who would want to treat Crowley like a luxury to be touched and cherished and adored. And Crowley is a demon who has, over the millennia, been unhappy about how they've been forced to deny even their friendship with each other, who would want Aziraphale to feel comfortable and safe and encouraged to indulge in earthly delights. That sounds like a stunning recipe for sexual compatibility to me.

"You said 'trust me'" / "And you did"

Just like the Job minisode, the Blitz is RIFE with symbolism (intentional or otherwise). This one will be quick, but I did want to touch on it because I thought it was interesting. Maybe I'm reaching at this point, but I'm assuming you read the tin.

First of all, Crowley not wanting to admit to never firing a gun before; comes off as someone who very much does not want to admit to their crush that they're a virgin ("You must have done this lots of times!" / "Umm.... yyyyyeah.")

(You could make the argument that Aziraphale having a firearms license and a Derringer in a hollowed-out book is symbolic of him not being a virgin while Crowley is. I disagree, for reasons I'll go into later, but it's a valid reading. However, I see it more like keeping a condom in your wallet; it's there in case you need it, but the opportunity has not yet risen no pun intended.)

More importantly, the theme of this entire minisode is trust. We already know they trust each other with their lives against the rest of Heaven, Hell, and the world. But specifically, this is about the importance of having complete trust in your partner in a charged, physically vulnerable, intimate moment, where the only danger is between the two of you.

Aziraphale needs to believe Crowley would never hurt him if he can help it. Crowley needs to trust Aziraphale's unwavering blind faith in him. Frankly, it all feels very symbolic of two people deeply in love losing their respective virginities with each other.

The trick is a success, and they share an intimate candlelit dinner in which they reaffirm their faith in each other. Aziraphale also begins to voice his agreement with Crowley, that maybe Heaven's rules shouldn't have to be as black and white as they are, and that there are benefits to... blurring the lines, shades of grey, wink wink (at which point even my mom was like, whoa guys, this is a family show).

Btw also: Can we all agree how much it looked like Crowley was getting ready to get a lapdance in that one scene? You know the one.

Also also: "Aim for my mouth"? Come on.

The Birds & The Bees

Now that I think of it, there's also something to be said for the fact that Crowley and Aziraphale are both obviously familiar with where babies come from (how they're made and how they're born) while the other angels aren't.

Something something Aziraphale and Crowley fundamentally understand sex and reproduction in a way the other angels (and probably demons) very much do not, nor have any desire to.

Probably not important. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

The Kiss™ & Religious Trauma

The Kiss. Where to even begin?

This has definitely been the hardest one to start, because there is so much going on here that I definitely won't be able to cover it all, and will certainly miss a few things here and there.

Aziraphale's reaction to the kiss afterwards is the most interesting to me. And I don't mean directly after, I don't mean the "I forgive you" part. I mean the way he touches his lips when Crowley is no longer in the room and he no longer needs to save face, when he is completely alone. Had it been directly after the kiss, it would have been rightfully read as horror, or disgust, a shield to discourage further action.

It's not. It isn't just a touch, it's a press. As desperate and angry and unexpected and imperfect as the kiss had been, Aziraphale is pressing it into himself, recreating the feeling as best he can. Beneath all the poor timing and shock and hurt from their fight and fallout, I think it's fair to say that it was something he enjoyed. Something he doesn't think he should enjoy, something that Feels Good that he only allows himself to indulge in when completely alone.

Remember, Aziraphale's idea of love is Jane Austen and gentleness and courtship and fantasy. If he'd ever even considered kissing an option, it might have been gentle pecks, cheek kisses, forehead kiss, hand kisses. Soft, safe, chaste affection.

Crowley's kiss turns all of that on its head. He introduces physical intimacy in a very real, very messy, very human way that I don't think Aziraphale ever even considered could apply to them. Considering what other angels are like and what they look down on, even Aziraphale's Jane Austen fantasies probably would have been considered taboo.

So for their first kiss to be rough and desperate and passionate in the way it was, of course he was confused and in shock. It was deeply physical, and as overwhelming and awful as it was in the moment, it Felt Good. Enough that he grasped at Crowley and kissed back, if only just for a moment, before stopping himself. Enough that he actively pressed it into his lips afterwards, in private, to remember.

I adore how Neil has decided to evolve these characters past the first book/season. More so in this season, Aziraphale and Crowley have both become such interesting allegories for queer people on either side of the spectrum of toxic religion. Aziraphale in particular obviously, because he is the side that so desperately wants to believe, to make a difference, and to unlearn all of the propaganda he's been fed over such a long time. Just like so much of organised religion, there is so much that he is told, time and time again, that he should not want, that he is silly or stupid or outright wrong for wanting. It reminds me so much of the severe Catholic guilt one might feel for wanting/engaging in sex for the first time, and the stigma of being queer layered on top of that.

What is so critical to Aziraphale's character is that he goes on wanting, and more than that, actively pursues. He was convinced to go up against Heaven and Hell and stop all of Armageddon because he wanted to go on listening to music and eating lunch and reading books and enjoying the simple company of the person he cares most deeply for, even if that person is supposed to be the enemy.

All this to say that if angels are as generally asexual/sex-averse as I believe them to be, narratively speaking, it would make sense for Aziraphale to be singular in that regard as well. Mirroring his first experience with food, it would make sense for Crowley to be the one to first introduce this new messy, physical, human dynamic between them, for Aziraphale to hesitate (obviously we are at the Hesitation phase at the moment), and then (eventually) for him to dive in wholeheartedly, to absolutely glut himself on this new thing that Feels Good. It would make sense for his character development to show him overcoming his metaphorical Catholic guilt and pursuing the sexual intimacy most (if not all) of the other angels would scorn.

(I can't help but remember that plot idea Neil described from the unwritten sequel, with Aziraphale in a hotel room trying to watch a full porno by way of the free 2-minute teaser clips so he wasn't technically sinning by paying for it. I so hope this is used in season 3, because gosh, I wonder why Aziraphale would suddenly be so interested in observing human physical intimacy after 6,000 years. Lonely and doing a little surreptitious research there, angel?)

Crowley, on the other hand, is the queer person who has broken free from his toxic religion. He prides himself on being his own person, on their his own side. He doesn't have the hang-ups Aziraphale does. He doesn't worry that he's going to be judged or cast aside for wanting things he's not supposed to. So it only makes sense for him to be the first one to suggest/initiate physical intimacy. It makes sense for him to be the one who "goes too fast" (another fantastic example of this dynamic beginning as early as s1; what is that conversation in the car meant to represent, if not Aziraphale being overwhelmed by the intensity of their relationship, and his fear of succumbing to it when he believes he shouldn't? It's also interesting that this is the first conversation to take place in Soho, just after watching Aziraphale realise he's caught feelings for a demon, with the red glow of lust serving as the backdrop).

Do I think the kiss in and of itself was sexual? No. I think it was a passionate and devastating last-ditch effort on Crowley's part to convey the way he feels for Aziraphale. Not just that he loves him, but that he loves him in the most human way possible. But I do think that the kiss represents how they can move forward from here, and what they might want to explore with each other once they feel free enough to do so.

In Conclusion

I am sure, deep in my bones (unless we are explicitly told otherwise), that this was both of their first kisses no, I'm not counting the gavotte, and that neither of them have ever thought to do anything else physical with the humans while they have been on Earth. Like I said before, they adore the human race and lifestyle in general, but ultimately view them as a separate species altogether, and they seem mostly happy to keep to themselves and each other, unless otherwise necessary. I just can't see either of them being drawn enough to a human to pursue anything close to sex. If Crowley in particular has had anything to do with sex in the context of temptations, I'm positive he would be inciting lust amongst the humans themselves, not involving himself directly. At least not that directly.

So, like every other human experience they've had on Earth, sex is something new that they could explore together, just the two of them, on their own side. A deeply intimate, tangible declaration of their love and everything they've gone through to earn it. A visceral finger to give both Heaven and Hell. A renewed appreciation for their corporations and for each other's. A enjoyable method for immortal beings to simply pass the time in each other's company. A new and exciting way to Feel Good, and all the variations that come with it.

You might agree with this post, or you might not. Whether this is something that is ever addressed or not, it doesn't matter to me. This is a brilliant love story either way, and I genuinely feel so privileged to witness it.

But I just can't find it in myself to imagine, given everything we know about these two characters, that sex isn't an experience they would both consume with wholehearted enthusiasm, curiosity, and profound, ineffable adoration.

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Bonus feature: the very silly notes I made to myself that inspired this post

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followthebluebell · 3 months

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entirely random question, if you happen to have any thoughts on it: why are cats so terrible at fetch when dogs aren't? even kitties who enjoy the "chase-and-return" concept usually don't actually fully return the toy when it seems like dogs work that part out pretty quick.

Because we bred dogs to do it, basically. A lot of dog breeds are retrievers, which do exactly what it says on the tin: they retrieve things. Teaching my poodle to play fetch didn't require much 'teaching' because those instincts are right there at the surface. He wants to fetch things the same way an artist wants to create. It's what he was born to do.

Even dogs that aren't retrievers are still dogs and are, in general, hardwired to listen and learn from people. People can and will make an argument about 'oh, but this breed is STUBBORN' (ie, huskies, salukis, a lot of hounds tbh, pretty much every primitive breed, etc; I'm not going to sit here and list all the breeds that are deemed 'difficult to train'), but I don't think that's fully accurate. Primitive breeds that are 'hard to train' are STILL going to learn from humans. They just don't always learn the things we're trying to teach them, but that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

I also want to emphasize that I FULLY believe that dogs changed us too. I don't think humans would be what we are today if it wasn't for our fully unique relationship with dogs. There's no other animal that we've domesticated the same way we have dogs, and there never will be. They fulfill so many roles in the development of human kind that it's astonishing. They were our hunting companions, our guardians, our trackers, our food, they even supplied wool (the salish wool dog is an extinct breed that was raised for wool similar to sheep), and our friends. Because of them, we became human. Because of us, they became dogs.

i'm sorry i'm getting really emotional about dogs. It's just that there's such a deep relationship between the species. Over our centuries, dogs became so incredibly attuned to us, to the point where they have the ability to communicate with and understand us more than any other domesticated species and we have the same with them. There's no other species on earth that inherently understands what a human means when we point a finger, but dogs DO.

basically dogs fetch because we bred them to want to retrieve, they want to learn things from us, and we want to teach them. Cats don't have any of these instincts. This doesn't mean they're any lesser or greater. They're just different and that's fantastic.

#dog #hi i really love dogs #i'm very much a cat person #but i love dogs very much

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drdemonprince · 4 months

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I'm a trans guy and tbh I feel like I don't fully understand the transandrophobia debate. Based on my understanding of intersectionality & transfeminism, I think that trans men (largely) experience transphobia and misogyny, while trans women (largely) experience transphobia, misogyny, *and* transmisogyny -- I also think it's necessary to discuss issues that specifically affect men without describing them as forms of oppression or discrimination against men. But that's just accounting for intersecting identities (including both marginalized and privileged identities) rather than only accounting for intersecting oppressions, right? I feel like some people using the term "transandrophobia" either seem to be confusing these two concepts or mistaking gender essentialism for discrimination against men (though some just use it to describe a subset of transphobia rather than an intersection, it seems like). In any case, even though misandry isn't a real systemic issue, I can understand why some people feel like there's missing language or frameworks when it comes to discussing the ways men, and trans men specifically, are treated (and the ways they/we treat each other). I'm not sure what better alternatives are available, but I'm sure some are possible. I'm wondering if I'm misunderstanding something or if you have any other thoughts on this. Thanks!

It sounds like you understand this 1000% better than every sincere transandrophobia poster. Not every unique experience is a locus of oppression that needs a systemic oppression label -- but yeah, of course, it merits being talked about.

For example, lots of trans men have a hard time in coping with the shift from being treated with emotional deference and warmth by strangers, to suddenly being treated quite coldly or even in a mistrustful way by strangers. That is a real, painful experience -- and it's one that is wrapped up in damaging gender norms that do also negatively affect cis men. It's not androphobia, but it is a consequence of sexism and the gender binary that sucks, and it merits speaking about.

Where things get dicey and fucked up is when men (either cis or trans) take a painful experience like that and declare that it means they're actually more oppressed than women.

(And, as Lee ButchAnarchist often points out, women's emotions are even more policed than men -- yes men are denied tenderness and warmth from total strangers, but they are showered in affection and caretaking by the women close to them, and they are allowed rage a whole lot more than women, in general. so it's overly simplistic and sexist to say men are more societally emotionally repressed. this dynamic plays out among trans men too -- we are given a lot more latitude to be emotionally explosive. trans women, meanwhile, are told they're being "scary" if they have any negative emotion. This is all also racialized -- Black people of any gender are basically never afforded the chance to voice negative feelings in public no matter how much they police their tone.)

I think a lot of trans masc people have a sudden rude awakening that being treated as a man can be painful and complicated, and that the gender binary harms everyone, and that there is a social price to pay for the privileges of being deferred to, respected, and so on. They also don't want to acknowledge when they are being respected and deferred to -- owning up to having any male privilege feels dirty and wrong to people, which is silly because it's just a reality, it has no moral bearing on the person experiencing the privilege. And of course it's often an incomplete privilege because of sexism and transphobia. But it still happens. Particularly within trans spaces.

I don't think this conversation will move forward productively until more trans men are capable of acknowledging that many of us have privilege and that we are very capable of hurting other people, being sexist, and speaking over trans women. And that's why we gotta make this transandrophobia stuff just completely socially unacceptable in our spaces. It is exactly the same as being a Men's Rights Activist. There are real men's liberation issues! Any worthwhile feminism will also liberate men! There are lots of aspects of the gender binary and patriarchy that are harmful to men, and that's worth talking about. Same with transphobia. But we can't have that conversation when men commandeer it to talk about how actually women have it better and all that vile shit. That talk is used to silence women, trans and cis alike.

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zvezdacito · 1 year

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// TWST Book 7 spoilers, thoughts of Malleus's writing as a character

So I was reading some other people's opinions on why some people consider Malleus overrated/annoying, and tbh this makes me really sad. The general consensus is that a lot of people fixate on certain sides and can only see him as one extreme or the other and it results in many ppl thinking a watered down version of his character is how he is in canon.

I feel that its such a shame because he's the most interesting, compelling and well-rounded take on his character archetype I've seen.

From my observation, usually they kinda make this archetype (the broody misunderstood 'everyone fears him like a monster except for one special person') someone you can't take that seriously, because of how his struggle usually kind of written in a way where everyone involved feel less like actual fully fledged original characters and really just one note tropes interacting with other one note tropes.

To elaborate: What i mean when i say this is usually ppl who hate him kind of just do because of plot requires them to and to show how all their haters are "normies" who can't get him because 'he's not like everyone else'. The misunderstood guy still usually has toxic personality issues but the story really tends to make it feel like they don't fear him for that but because they're shallow and have prejudice to ppl like him, so his personality issues are not framed as wrong or character flaws.

I don't think there's anything inherenrly wrong or mediocre with the "one special person who gives him a chance before anyone else" trope like I'm literally a Malleyuu enjoyer lol but like i said its all in the execution cause otherwise it fails to be compelling and believable. Usually in the poorly written version of this trope the guy doesn't undergo any character development other than showing more emotion and kindess to his partner because they melted his ice I guess so it really makes his whole character feel like its revolves around the sake of romance and fanservice.

Malleus doesn't fall into this trap in my opinion because his situation despite how fantastical it is, the way he was written makes it believable as to why everything is the way it is with him, and it also challenges the viewer if they would be able to say they wouldn't fear him too in that situation.

"We're gonna give you this character who everyone sees as a monster and show you deep down he just wants the same love as everyone else, making you contemplate changing judgement on him. He wants to prove this, but his way of going about it always inadvertently harms others."

"You know where hes coming from and if he had that social connection to give him a better understanding of others this wouldn't be happening, but its also equally understandable that the people hes trying to connect with don't deserve this and fear him even more after this, trapping him in a cycle of isolation."

"Given his track record, do you go about giving him a chance or just considering the repeatedly proven danger he brings. With the valid reasons of both parties, can you really say he isn't a monster and demand that 'if only people be near him'?"

There's just such a tragic and thought-provoking dilemma to his character that adds so many layers that makes him so good.

As omniscient viewers we have the benefit of seeing what he's going through form his POV so we can sympathize with him and understand that he thinks what he's doing is the best course of action and he's just trying to create a "win for everyone" situation.

But also everything he does ironically reaffirms everyone's fear and distrust of someone like him. No one can deny he has a tendency to cause further destruction when he tries to do something "good", examples including: past Briar Valley lantern lighting fire, the Halloween 2 ghost world party, and now his Sleeping Curse stunt in Book 7 Part 2 (they really emphasize this by making the spoken name of his UM basically mean "Malicious Fairy" but have its written name used to convey what its meant to mean be "Blessing").

↑ Given this, it honestly makes sense others, especially those who don't know him all that well, would just expect the worst when he's around already, and you wouldn't be able to blame them for that given the track record. It doesn't help that this impression is worsened since he tends to cause misunderstandings due to his lack of familiarity with human social cues.

Alongside the bias and preconceived notions from his status and reputation, they also make a point on how his personality flaws are still also a huge factor in pushing people away, such as not being able to see things through the perspective of others.

He also holds a subconcious belief due to what has been ingrained in him since childhood as a Draconia and the next in line that because he's superior to others at certain things, he has the right and responsibility to decide on what will protect and help them, disregarding the individual values/priorities of human beings and leading him to take reckless and destructive action with good intentions.

His upbringing, character strengths and character flaws are all realistically connected to each other and the way they are subtly shown to be ever-present in defining his decisions, goals and thoughts throughout the whole story. So we don't really need to have a character go out of their way to exposition this to us this word for word just so we can understand and believe it.

Moving onto something slightly more lighthearted, I really also like how dorky Malleus surprisingly was. Other similar characters in the archetype I usually see don't really have any hobbies, interests, or quirks outside of being a broody authority figure, which might've been appealing to some at first but it really just gets stale and boring after a while.

This should be the bare minimum in making a fleshed out and interesting character so maybe i sound like im giving them too much credit for pointing it out😭 But yeah compared to the other examples it's good that Malleus has his Tamagotchi and Gargoyle interests it makes him feel like a believable person who has his own life going on too (with the bonus that these interests are also metaphors for aspects of his character). The gap moe adds an endearing side to him, and makes the gap between his intent and impact of his actions even more tragic. It wouldn't hit the same without this side.

(^ Forgot how the exact quote goes, but it basically said dark stories are more effective when there are moments of genuine happiness and good in them, compared to if it was always just grim and edgy. The former increases the stakes and tragedy because you have something you to care about losing, while for the latter there is nothing for you to care about so nothing the story does really matters. Same logic applies to Malleus)

Overall, it's just like an unfortunate incompatibility of goals and circumstances, which is what TWST is all about. Another thing I want to say is out of all the characters, I feel like Malleus is the one who is the ultimate embodiment of TWST's main themes:

-> How it's not about "hero" vs "villain" just differing circumstances crossing paths and clashing because of how people on either side have their own complex perspective and dreams they want to realize

-> And how connection and finding community is important to find people who will help you make up for what you lack in reaching your goals and to better understand all the factors that caused the situation in the first place.

As if seeing yourself reflected in a mirror, the more you get to know the people around you, you realize in many ways you are actually quite alike, and through understanding others you could also possibly better understand certain aspects of yourself. It's sort of encouraging you to do the opposite of dehumanizing others and yourself, which is something Malleus has most evidently internalized.

So yeah this was so long😭 I had a lot I wanted to say since Malleus is my favorite TWST character. Idk if I missed anything or if i managed to express my thoughts in a cohesive way but yeah. I kinda go into a rage whenever I see the worst takes ever be put out about his character but tbh sometimes I can't completely blame others since fandom trends and the convenience of simplifying things into tropes can warp your perception of a character and what you associate with them.

Also sometimes twst doesn't do a good job with utilizing his character like Book 5 where he got turned into a deus ex machina and Halloween 2 where they killed any hype and intrigue for the plot we had at the beginning through the ending reveal and gave the worst justification ever for Malleus and Lilia's actions ever.

Regardless, I hope more people manage to move past this and appreciate his character for what it really is soon though. He's an amazingly tragic character; a lot of thought was put into how his experiences, strengths and weaknesses would convincingly connect, and he represents something relevant in the story's plot and themes.

The fact that I've seen some people unironically believe that Malleus may just be faking his cluelessness of social cues to hide his "true evil" is evidence to how convincing his character's situation is, that even some in the audience who know more about him than the characters would still end up in the same place of doubt and distrust of Malleus because of what he's capable of.

Aight thank you for reading👍

#twst #twisted wonderland #twst book 7 spoilers #malleus draconia #twst writing analysis ?#diasomnia #i am his number 1 defender #ignore me just putting random photos in between text i tried separating chunks of text to make it more readable lol #twst character analysis ?

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am-i-the-asshole-official · 6 days

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WIBTA if i told my friend to, essentially, count their blessings?

sorry for possibly bad english

CONTEXT: me (19 they/them) and my online friend (18 they/them). years ago we bonded over not having friends IRL. they were being bullied and i have some mental issues that make social things difficult (social anxiety, low social battery, tendency to isolate)

then things changed. i got therapy and started talking to some classmates. my friend now has an entire IRL friend group they're very close to.

but this past year was a nightmare for me. i'm not in school anymore and my mental health hit a new low. i can't stay in touch with people, everything is exhausting, i'm back to zero. i'm still in therapy but i'm seriously struggling.

silver lining: talking to people online is a little easier. i don't have online friends aside from this person. but i'm very friendly in videogames (i jump around, spam a little, TBH i'm annoying but it works) and i'm active online and open about my interests, some are crazy popular. basically i have small exchanges with people here and there, very brief and or casual. it looks like nothing but where i'm at RN it means the world to me.

PROBLEM: my friend. every. single. time. they see a mutual commenting on my post, or i tell them i had a nice interaction in a videogame, they say "wow, you're a magnet, everyone always talks to you, nobody ever talks to me, haha, i don't know how you do it since no one even looks at me". seriously, EVERY TIME.

they've been doing this for years. it didn't bother me as much before but things are different now. they have a wonderful IRL friend group, a girlfriend, many online friends they're close to. they literally DO befriend people the same way i do, i don't understand what they're envious of. meanwhile this is all i have and they're fully aware of my situation.

BTW it's okay to feel jealousy and envy, i'm a little envious too, but it's how you act on it that can be rude or insensitive. i keep it to myself because i know my issues aren't their fault. also over the years i reassured them when they acted this way and a few times i introduced them to some of these people i meet. apparently it didn't change anything.

i want to tell them to start thinking about how many friends they have and to stop complaining. kindly. i probably sound irritated because i am. but if i say this i don't want to be mean to them, i'll try to be respectful. i just don't know if i'm in the right to even be annoyed

#aita #am i the asshole #eyestrain

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mulderscully · 9 months

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been thinking about some peoples complaints about how the movie handled alex's coming out as opposed to the book.

part of me understands because the movie did sort of neuter this as well as the depth of henry's mental illness, but at the same time i understand why. the movie is already two hours long and tbh if they wanted to do a fully faithful adaptation (which imo is not necessary) it maybe should've been a mini series.

and aside from taking out liam, tbh i still think that all happened just wasn't shown, and the fact that this is why alex has always known he's "lowkey into dudes" i feel like people don't fully grasp what alex goes through in that time after new years in the movie.

not every bisexual person has the same experience, but i can relate to alex pretty well both in the book and in the movie in terms of his sexuality cause they actually are pretty similar.

a lot of times when you're bisexual you just feel like everyone feels this way. you sort of feel like being straight is what being bisexual is, because the idea that others do not experience attraction to the same and different genders sounds... fake. like. i'm not even joking when i say i have a hard time believing straight people exist. i fully, of course, believe gay people exist, but people being straight and not queer at all makes me ??? sometimes, even now that i have identified as bi for over ten years.

then, there is a pretty big difference between knowing you experience same gender attraction from time to time and actively identifying as a bisexual person, as a queer person, a member of the lgbtq community.

bisexuals, to this day, are made to feel like we do not belong by both heterosexual people and our own community (which is why ellen telling alex the b in lgbtq is not a silent letter realllly matters) so sometimes you really do just shut out that part of yourself and choose to see yourself as straight because it's not worth fighting all the biphobia that you face, but it's still a part of you that you are shutting out and repressing, which is what alex was doing with henry the entire time and where his alleged dislike of him comes from in the first place. henry hates how much he loves alex so he's mean to him, alex doesn't understand why henry is mean to him because he wants henry to like him because he ALSO has feelings for him and those things clash.

during the time that henry ghosts him alex has time to evaluate himself, his feelings and his identity. he has the time to say "this is not something that i am going to ignore about myself anymore" and it may not be as magnified as it is for henry because they're in different positions in terms of support systems, it's still powerful.

when he comes out to henry, you can tell he is getting used to thinking of himself as bisexual but you can also tell that he is nervous to say the word, because telling someone you're bi is ALWAYS terrifying because you don't know what they might say to it. on top of that, you can feel that it is important to him to say it, to tell henry who he is now that he understands it.

being bisexual and identifying that way, and that being part of who you are and carrying it in your heart is a different thing than being like "yeah, whatever i'll make out with someone at a party" even if the latter is still a valid way to be queer. and sometimes you just look back and realize that [x] experience was NEVER straight.

and the best part of the movie to me is henry's complete acceptance of this. henry never ever questions alex's attraction to him, he never questions if alex will be able to stay committed to him, if he will leave him for a woman, if he's confused, or any of the things that STILL happen in media with bisexual characters as leads and as a bisexual person that has been one of the most freeing things to watch.

so yes, alex's bisexuality is still very important and handled as such in the film, in my personal bisexual opinion.

#rwrb #alex claremont diaz #firstprince #red white and royal blue #i feel like if liam had been in the movie it would've distracted some ppl from firstprince too ngl #i know how fandoms work lol #and this movie is a love story abt two characters not some love triangle

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freckliedan · 6 months

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in your opinion do you think that now they’re not in the closet publicly anymore, it’s not that they necessarily care that people think/know they’re together, it’s just more that they want to keep their actual relationship private?

ooh this is a good question honestly! i mean, they've said it themselves that they're private, and their actions back that up too. i think a huge part of the way they've navigated the privacy for their relationship while & since coming out has been about setting a clear boundary, considering the past violations of their privacy?

but honestly i think there's another huge piece of why they've been so private over the last five years and why that's changing now! i think the gaming channel hiatus era has been their individualization era, which was important for dan especially. like, phil had some time as an adult to learn who he was before he met dan; all of dan's identity formation as an adult happened in the context of his relationship with phil.

spending your entire adult life in a relationship with someone, AND living with them AND working together AND having shared friends for the vast majority of those years? speaking from experience: you can reach a point where you're less able to identify your own individual wants and needs and strengths and dreams, even if it's a healthy and beautiful relationship.

especially if there was any level of tumultuousness in your home life lol

with the added pressure of being a public figure it makes a lot of sense to me that a hard reset had to happen for dan's exploration of who he is and wants to be and enjoys doing with his career to succeed! dan is not okay being fucked over is such a heartbreaking thing, but the time dan spent almost completely out of the public eye followed by a fully solo tour & span of his career shere he was regularly posting is like—it makes sense!

it makes sense that the last 5 years were focused on everything but their relationship! but it also makes like equal sense to me that they're returning to the gaming channel and joint content and a higher level of being open with us, too.

they tried fully solo careers. and i'm sure they both know now, what they like doing independently of one another. but it's so clear to me that they've returned to the gaming channel because they genuinely love to make videos together, and it's a part of them making a fully informed choice about their future careers.

like. it actually really grinds my gears when people say that dan and phil only came back to the gaming channel for the money, tbh! because yeah, i'm sure it's one of their best options for bringing in money. but like... yall they are rich people. they absolutely have money invested. they absolutely are having their money managed. they almost certainly could pull off never working again if they wanted to.

they wouldn't phone it in just for money, not with the standards they've consistantly shown themselves to have for the work they do. like, yes, they're doing their job and making money for it. but i just don't understand seeing this as anything but a choice they made because they love working together—and because they're sure of that, having spent half a decade on solo projects.

the individuation era ending also makes the higher level of being open about their lives make sense. i've always thought we were due for a being loud about how happy they are in their relationship era post coming out and. well. this is definitely that. i can't say i ever wanted to hear this much about their sex lives but i also can't truly say i'm surprised!

i think this is an era of shifting boundaries to be at least a little more open regarding their relationship and life together and i think that's what they're boiling us about this gamingmas! ultimately they're always going to keep more to themselves than they ever share with us but like. things are changing!

#jam posts #jam thoughts #jam replies #anon

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autistichalsin · 3 months

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In light of all the bitching about the upcoming patch, I was so happy to hear you’re also not… mad at Larian, I guess? I was wondering if I’m missing something, because for all its bugs, the game is fine the way it is, to me. More than fine, it’s a great game, the first that really means something to me since Dishonored. Idk, I’m literally over here just vibing, glad I’m not alone in that 😌

I noticed there's been a trend in recent years, I think started by those media that truly DID become horribly disappointing as it went on (last season of GOT, for example), and people started just... like

There is a phase most media get where they are the Best Ever, they Can Do No Wrong. And then one day that phase ends, and suddenly, that media Can Do No Right. Everything is a mistake, everything is wrong, everything is an attempt to cater to one group of fans (who are, of course, the wrong group to cater to) and/or an attempt to spite one group of fans. I think that in this day and age, people sometimes don't understand the difference between consuming media critically, I.E., using critical thinking to understand the themes, plot, and characters, and consuming media critically, I.E. criticizing everything the creators say and do.

So instead of looking for simple explanations, I.E., "different trainings and specialties mean that the division of labor at Larian has a team that works on new animations, but that team is not the same team responsible for bug fixes, so getting new animations from the former isn't why the latter hasn't repaired Polearm Master or Shield Bash or Raphael and Mol's scene yet" they instead assume "Larian only cares about Astarion and Halsin* and are catering to their fans again at the expense of literally everything else"

*The idea that Halsin fans are receiving any kind of special treatment is laughable, but that is very much the accusation being made- i want to see their reaction when they open up patch 6 and see that their fave has new kiss animations too tbh. As for the new scenes datamined for Halsin, those are all in response to complaints made by people who HATE Halsin, not complaints by his fans. A platonic confession scene? A version of the post-breaking the curse scene that doesn't involve flirting? The only two that were made for Halsin fans were fixing his post-Drow dialogue and the ability to go with him at the end, and the latter hasn't been fully implemented yet (you can get a flag saying you chose him, but you don't get to tell him and have him respond yet). But I have seriously digressed.

IDK, it just seems like we're in the phase of fandoms where, since the initial joy of discovering what the game has to offer has worn off, people are getting their dopamine from getting angry instead, and that means making a game of who can have the best hot takes, who or what is the most problematic and deserving of shunning, what have the creators done to fuck over us poor fans, etc.

There are many legitimate criticisms to be made against Larian, I want to be clear here- their treatment of Wyll's character has been horrific, and the interactions between Durge and Astarion should have been given for ALL characters. It is appalling that they have let Minthara's romance be bugged to the point that some people can only trigger it by modding the game because the flags are bugged and that they have allowed Halsin's voice lines to be bugged SINCE LAUNCH causing many to think they don't exist. All of these things deserve to be criticized. But ascribing malice to things like having separate work teams on the game, or the pile-on people started over that "we fixed it so a glitch can't cause Gale to leave your party" patch... Yeah.

It's never a good sign when a fandom starts to collectively chase the high that comes from being The Angriest. It doesn't seem to be as prevalent on here as on Twitter, thankfully (ironically, speaking as someone who was on this site since before Superwholock, the most toxic parts of Tumblr moved to Twitter after the porn ban, and now it's mostly rational people on here) but we are rapidly sliding towards the "do you people even like this game or do you like the version of it you created in your head?" phase of fandom that everyone dreads.

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deripmaver · 8 months

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Which is worse, rape or murder? - Or, should Casca have died during the Eclipse?

Unlike most of my meta posts, this is one I'm making as a direct critique of a specific take I've seen. It's similar to my meta about apostle Casca in that regard, where I want to look at a specific idea and why I dislike it, as opposed to wanting to explore my thoughts on an aspect of canon. To be clear, this is only something I do if I've seen a take a bunch of times, enough so I know it's not a one-off. It's also not something I do because I want to engage in discussion with the people who've said whatever the take is, it's something I do in case other people who agree with me might be interested in a meta post that's more in line with their viewpoint.

I provide this disclaimer because, as I've said a few times now, the idea that it's the better choice to have Casca die during the eclipse is one that I just really dislike, and I make that preeeeetty fuckin clear. I can't control who sees this or who comments, but I did think I should make my stance explicit.

Berserk fandom is an absolute treasure trove of bad takes about rape and sexual assault. Considering the seriousness with which the manga takes rape, despite it's sometimes quite dodgy framing and portrayal, the fact that the fandom is Like That is fully a testament to cishet men's inability to consume media without turning into a brainless amoeba of toxicity.

I have to say, though, what shocked me the most was that this particular take, that Casca should have just died during the eclipse, was not from the dudebro side of fandom ('cause if she had they couldn't make their silly little "casca enjoyed it" jokes).

I'm coming right out of the gate with my opinion, which is a firm no, Casca should not have died during the eclipse, and the story would be weaker if she had. I'm going to presume during this analysis that the people who say this assume that her death would be instead of her rape, as opposed to her being raped and then dying, which would be... Horrific. Even more horrific than canon, lol.

I do have sympathy for some of the people who wish she had died, and in a way I understand, though I vehemently disagree. Some of the posts with this POV sound almost traumatized as they proclaim I wish she would have died, it would have been better. As this is something I've only noticed in the tumblr fandom side of things, where most people are women, I think this comes from women readers feeling furious and sick about one of the most vile rape scenes out there. In some ways its intentionally vile, in others - ie how grotesquely sexualized it is - it's unintentional. Then, of course, she continues to suffer in her disabled, infantilized trauma state. I hear these readers wanting to shout at Miura that he should have just killed her off rather than force her, and us, through reading that. It would have been kinder.

I have... Far less sympathy for others. There's a side of fandom that simply does not care about Casca (in a different way than the dudebros who don't care about her despite gushing about how she's peak tomboy waifu). It's amazing the veneer of progressivism these people put on as they say that Casca should have died, because she did not contribute to the narrative before the eclipse, and she certainly hasn't after. Going to get even spicier for a second and point out fandom's long history of wanting female characters dead because they get in the way of mlm ships, and how I think this is SOMETIMES simply another manifestation of it.

To be fully fucking clear, I do NOT think that being a grffgts shipper (censored so this doesn't show up in the tag LOLLLLL) precludes being shitty about Casca. I think tumblr's demographics, and those demographics' typical shipping preferences, mean that grffgts is naturally going to dominate. By simple statistics, most of the people whose opinions I hate are going to be grffgts shippers. Same with most of the people's opinions I like on tumblr tbh. I do, however, think it's prudent to point out old school fandom misogyny, and how I personally feel it's showing up in the fandom, and also point out that it pisses me off that Casca dying during the eclipse is at all presented as the least misogynistic outcome.

I'm also going to say now that this is firmly being kept in the realm of fiction. In real life, there are horrific discussions about how being a victim of rape defiles you for life, and that it's better to die without the "shame" of being raped than live with it. While I have to be blunt it's difficult for me to separate some of the discussion of Casca dying during the eclipse from that anti-survivor bias I see in real life just because ~we live in a society~, I in general think this sentiment is coming from a place of simply analyzing, narratively, which outcome is less misogynistic given how the rape in canon is portrayed.

Would it narratively have been better for Casca to have died? What about the impact of her death versus her current storyline?

First, I think I need to outline my interpretation of the eclipse rape. I don't think that the decision to have Griffith rape Casca was Miura simply being a misogynistic cishet dude who threw in rape for the hell of it. I also don't think it's OOC. Again, there's much to critique in how it's drawn, but not in the fact that it happened. Griffith, in his moments of feeling out of control and powerless, uses sexual advances to reassert his control over the situation - see Charlotte, or the wagon scene with Casca. A distaste for sexual violence committed by his enemies doesn't mean Griffith is incapable of wielding sexual violence as a weapon himself. In real life, there's a paradox where rape committed by political or social enemies is seen as the worst crime one could ever commit, while the mundane rape committed as a consequence of patriarchy is excusable and the victims should be blamed and shamed. Did Miura have the gender studies acumen to think about that when writing? I dunno, but neither does anyone who thinks he didn't.

I also think it's supposed to establish his actions during the eclipse as fully over the moral event horizon. Without it, it's easy to ask if ultimately, Griffith's decision to sacrifice his followers to a cruel death is justified to create a perfect utopia. With it, it establishes Griffith as acting fully on cruel, malicious impulse in moments of emotional turmoil, which puts his future utopia in jeopardy. I can't be the only one who sees Falconia as a ticking time bomb. Of course, this doesn't mean he needed to rape Casca, but simply that I think it was necessary to his character to do something that crossed that moral line. He could have raped Guts I suppose. Killerbambi has entered the chat.

While I think this might sound strange, I actually think it's immensely validating to have a character who is a victim not just of rape, but of rape committed by someone she already knew. That's genuinely unique in media on the whole, which plays into that paradox I mentioned earlier - in real life, the vast majority of assaults are committed by someone the victim knew. Having the story surround the continual, horrific trauma of betrayal, of having to watch the person who hurt you move on while trauma keeps you in horrible stasis is almost so realistic it's... uncomfortable. Painful. Hard to read.

There's no greater purpose to what happened to Casca. She didn't grow from it, instead she regressed.

Her general lack of agency post-eclipse is much critiqued in the fandom and like. Fucking yeah fair LOLLLLLL BUT ALSO... But also. Fandom on the whole can be so cruel about traumatized female characters, like there's no way they can do trauma "right." In Casca's case, her lack of agency is turned into a reason she should simply have been killed off instead, as though there aren't so many survivors who, while not as literally as she does, retreat into a shell of themselves and are frozen with trauma as the world begins to pass them by. Of course, the critique would be that she's not a real person, she's a female character written in a misogynistic way by a man, but I personally think this overstates Miura's issues with his portrayal of rape. To me, it presents what they think are his biases as justification for their own biases.

Time and time again, I see survivors discuss feeling validated by Casca's trauma response after being assaulted. Even the parts of the rape scene that I vehemently dislike, such as the hyper-focus on Casca's body and the physical reactions she's having, I've seen more than one person say they felt validated because they too had an unwanted arousal response during an assault. I'll still critique the scene, but regardless of if this was Miura's intention, its impact is clear.

I'll again plug this article by Jackson P. Brown, How Berserk’s Casca challenges the myth of the “Strong Black Woman.” Just to show a quote from it:

All of the action of the story after Conviction Arc is in service of restoring Casca's mind. During Conviction Arc and after, Casca has groups of women who love and protect her, with women as her source of safety. Guts is single mindedly focused on bringing her back, putting his body on the line again and again to protect her and restore her. I wondered about including Guts here because I'm sure I'll get some anon about the Beast of Darkness, which again fair LOL. I have complicated feelings on that, but mostly I think the importance the narrative puts on her mind and her protection is touching, and I think this outweighs how the negative things apparently mean that she should have died.

Her story and trauma, despite its flaws, is shockingly realistic and validating to so many people. She's also a key narrative component post-eclipse, and not just ~for Guts' manpain~ or as a helpless plot device, her story is her own. I've written about Elaine as a character and what she represents, but in brief, Casca doesn't disappear after the eclipse. Miura wrote Elaine with these moments where Casca comes to the surface, and while I wish we had more of her POV I think you can look at how she's coping from how Elaine reacts to the world around her.

I also think it's necessary to have Casca at the Hill of Swords. There's Guts, who Griffith torments in the way only a bitter ex can, and Rickert, who doesn't know what happened the day of the eclipse, but I think Casca is the key component in that scene that cuts through all of Griffith's posturing and Guts' anger. She is there, making the real, human cost of what Griffith did during the eclipse unignorable in a way that no other character could. It's one thing for Guts to be furious with him and Rickert ignorant, it's another to have someone who loved him so innocently and dearly trembling just at the sight of him. Let's not pretend that the depth of betrayal in this scene would be the same if you swapped her for, say, Judeau.

It's funny, Miura is quoted as saying that his initial reason for keeping Casca alive was to provide Guts an ever-burning flame of vengeance, an eternal reminder of everything that he lost during the eclipse. What's wound up happening, on a meta level, is that Casca provides the reader a constant reminder of what happened during the eclipse. As more and more focus is given to her PTSD with her revival, the cruelty with which Griffith acted (and continues to act) becomes harder and harder to ignore. It becomes more difficult to push it aside as just bad, misogynistic writing.

And also, quite simply, I like narratives about trauma recovery, and therefore I'll always find Casca's story worth telling despite my frustration with a lot of it. It's absolutely wild to me that for how often I see the fandom complain about her being "fridged" they think it would have been better to see her ACTUALLY fridged, no chance of coming back at all, just dead to fuel Guts' revenge arc. Would it really be better to have her be just another dead girlfriend? Really?

That's really what it comes down to. I like Casca as a character, and I want her to have lived. The people who wish she had died, many of them simply don't like her as a character. Not all, particularly in that first group I mentioned at the start, but many. Everyone has their preferences of course, but I don't think I need to respect when someone thinks a character has so little influence on the narrative that they should have just died, especially if that character is Casca.

If Casca had died during the eclipse, it would not have been a good death. It would not have been brave, or triumphant, or worth anything for her as a character. Judeau died to protect Casca, but even his death was not brave, it was just sad. That's the whole point of the eclipse.

To have Casca die that way would be a disservice to her as a character, far moreso than to have her struggle on as a traumatized victim of sexual violence. That's genuinely what I believe.

#berserk #casca #casca berserk #berserk meta #casca the og victim of yaoi IN CANON

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noraiir-arts · 1 year

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Does anyone else have very complicated ways of shipping?? like when i say "i ship them" i don't mean "oh they love each other so much they kiss each other and will be together forever" i ship characters but in a way that's unique to only them and/or only in certain scenarios

Like, for example Zelink- I think pre-calam zelink was one sided, i dislike post-calam zelink, but i sort of like totk zelink (yes i know they are the same two people) but only certain dynamics??? but i also think that its the type of love that goes unsaid, they just look out for and support each other, maybe its not entirely romantic but they are closer than friends. It's the type of closeness you can only get by knowing that no matter what lifetime you are in the other will always be there. I don't think its necessarily the type where they hide behind pillars to make out, or try to stay in a committed relationship, but more of a tired love, one that has been renewed throughout hundreds of lives, each time being something different.

But take skyward sword, i believe that it's easier to see romantic zelink here

or Miphlink - I don't really ship this, but it's a tragic one-sided love story that Mipha knew was doomed from the beginning. The other woman. Was never given enough time to tell Link how she felt, yet even if she had time he might not have returned her feelings. Now he barely remembers her. Maybe 100 years later she's a little embarrassed of herself, of what she wrote in her diary. Maybe it was a simple crush, mistaken for undying love and has dwindled over the past century. But now it's a sad love, the type where she grieves for what used to be, and what never will. But after being saved from Ruta she switches her sights towards the domain. She can see how much her brother has grown and is so proud of him. She knows Link will never remember her fully, but maybe it's for the best. No matter what, she will always be there to heal his wounds.

Tbh i was dragged into Revalink kicking and screaming, but now it's one of my favorites. - Their dynamics work so well, but oh no it's so sad. Started from a one-sided "rivalry" to some sort of friendship. Link never hated Revali, he didn't even dislike him. And Revali just wanted Link to be impressed, to understand why he was chosen for his role as pilot, and he wanted Link to prove himself to Revali (honestly i can go on a on about why revali was harsh to link in botw if anyone wants me to) But over time they both start to realize that they are more similar to each other than any of the other champions. They weren't born into noble families or blessed with magic. Revali learns about the vigorous training Link underwent after pulling the sword, and Link learns that Revali isn't the son of the elder or was an important figure in his village before becoming a champion, but a simple warrior just like Link. Their friendship grows and they become a great team, surprising mostly everyone. Maybe it grows into something more. Maybe neither of them know it. Maybe they just never admit it. Revali knows Link doesn't remember him. He doesn't want him to. He tells Link not to go asking about him to the princess. It's for the best, he will still be there to help Link after all. Maybe it's cruel to keep him from knowing. Well, Revali will be gone soon anyway. Maybe he hopes that Link will at least remember good things about him.

Honestly I love revalink aus, they are my fav!!

I think of Zelimpa (aoc) like a mix of how i described miphlink and revalink but im too tired to explain it rnnnnn

oh also urbosa/zelda's mom but i think that goes unsaid

but anyway these are just a few. Most of the time i can't use words to exactly explain something pictured in my head, (synesthesia is so silly) but i tried my best

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g0nta-g0kuhara · 8 months

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Gonta Character Thoughts

Someone asked me earlier today for some Gonta writing tips, and while I don't know fully how useful this wall of text is for that, it let me talk about Gonta as a character and about his motivations that I think some folks might appreciate either as people who like him or people who want to understand better why I'm so insane about him. It was also really fun to pull together my thoughts on him so I wanted to share!!

The main thing for me is that Gonta is pretty confident with himself when it comes to any situation that requires physical might. When it comes to lifting heavy things or fighting for his friends, Gonta is at ease and doesn't need to hesitate to consider if he Can do the thing. On the other hand, where he's a bit more nervous or hesitant is social situations. He's unfamiliar with and misses a lot of social cues and ends up stumbling and hesitant in situations he's never been in before (like class trials at the beginning of v3). In these situations he might look to follow someone's lead or even directly ask for help.

On the topic of familiarity, Gonta is also very well versed in knowledge related to bugs and survival, as well as nature, especially in the forest where he grew up. He is not very familiar with a lot of things other characters would take for granted as common knowledge (like computers, if its relevant at all he probably doesn't know much kanji). Gonta isn't Dumb but he is missing a cultural baseline for a lot of references and info that makes him struggle where other characters will have no issues.

Gonta's convinced that he's stupid because he lacks this baseline, and because of the reinforcement and teasing by those around him. He has pretty severe self-esteem problems, and he's convinced that all he's good for is his physical strength, as that's all people seem to value him for anyways. This led to a pretty bad complex during the killing game where he blamed himself for every single death ("if gonta could have just protected them this would have never happened. its all gonta's fault") which only got worse and worse. He's desperate to help out and be useful to the group so will go along with a lot if he thinks there's a chance he will be able to help. This is a major driving force for his character, especially in chapter 4.

Gonta is probably good with fine detail work (as he has to be to work with and mount bugs) but also will forget his strength if he gets excited or otherwise forgets himself. Very polite things like holding the door open for someone or offering to take someone's hand to help them down the stairs, or other things like that that aren't necessarily expected in every day life but definitely are of a stereotypical gentleman, Gonta will do whenever he can, but it's a very intentional thing. He might hesitate, remember he should be doing that, then go for it, which can end up a bit awkward. Gonta is very kindhearted by nature, so that will often come through even if he is a bit awkward about being gentleman-level polite. He's trying his best though.

Gonta is also very openly expressive. He can't hide or suppress his emotions very well most of the time, which means he emotes A Lot. He cries more easily than the other boys in v3, or really any of the characters in the v3 cast, and definitely cries more loudly and openly. But on the other hand, when he's happy, he glows.

The one emotion he tries his best to control is anger. A lot of Gonta's social isolation before he got lost (and even after tbh) came from the fact that he was bigger than the other kids and his neutral expression can be a bit intense/scary. He's not hotheaded in the way Kaito might be, but he's very careful with his words and himself when he's upset in this way.

Gonta will also make that intense expression where he grits his teeth and Looks angry when he's stressed or hurt. This can freak out his classmates to the point that he accidentally pushes them away when he needs their reassurance the most. (see: when you talk to gonta during the ch4 investigation, when he's freaking out about not being able to remember what happened and feeling useless, he makes this expression and Kaito gets scared.)

I need to stress though that Gonta is NOT aggressive. Almost every time in game where he considers physical violence as an option, he thinks through it carefully before acting (Defending Kaede before her execution, challenging Monokuma in ch4 before being talked down). A notable exception to this might be kidnapping people for the insect meet and greet, but that was less aggression and more Gonta being in a heightened state of emotion (convinced that everyone hates bugs, which upset him) so forgetting his strength.

Also, it's important to note that Gonta IS sometimes able to hide his emotions and tell lies, but it has to be very intentional and planned ahead of time. He can't suppress his tears at the loss of a classmate, and he can't lie easily (See trial 1 and 2 where Gonta very simply says that yeah he totally could have thrown the shotput ball or tossed ryoma into the tank /physically/, even though admitting this puts a target on his back). However, he was able to hide the truth of the outside world and the fact that he was likely experiencing some really intense emotions at the time from his friends as he and Kokichi executed their plan. Of course, the fact that they were virtual world avatars helps, but its not everything. I think he just has to plan to lie or prepare himself to put on a front in advance.

I know this is super long so just one last thing: Gonta will take a Lot of verbal abuse and teasing if it goes along with his already poor self image. Other characters will call him an idiot and he doesn't even bat an eye because he's convinced of the fact himself. That's why when Kiibo played back the audio recording of Kokichi during the Insect Meet n Greet the part that upset Gonta the most wasn't Kokichi calling him "simple-minded," but instead Kokichi saying that he didn't actually like bugs. He will stand up for himself (carefully, as he always acts when he's angry-upset) if other lines are crossed, though. Like in Ch2 when Kokichi says if Gonta keeps falling for his lies he will end up a victim of the killing game, to which Gonta says something like "Don't say that Kokichi, not even as joke."

I have more I could get into but that teeters more into personal headcanon territory on his friendships and backstory, so I'll hold off. but MAN I love Gonta and I love how genuinely deep his character goes. Its a shame so few people really get into his character beyond "sunshiney bug "himbo" ", there's a lot here that's fun to play with.

#gonta gokuhara #danganronpa v3 #drv3 spoilers #shut up me #long post #READ MY POST BOY

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paigeswrld · 1 year

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Heart of Ice pt. 3

Azriel x reader

Thank you for all the love on this series, this is the last part. Tbh.. idk how to feel about this. I don't think i like it. :/

Warnings: Angst... Idk i think that's it

WC: 3.4k

***

Walking up to the River House, the memories of the last dinner plagued your mind. How were you supposed to face them? So many things went wrong that night, and you still hadn’t figured out what you were going to say to them. You were sick to your stomach with nerves, not sure if you could manage to even eat something right now.

You turned to the winged male next to you, arm still locked with his, “Az, I don’t know if I can do this.”

He stopped right before the door, dropping your arm and turning to fully face you. He took your face in his hands as he said, “Yes you can. It’s one dinner and if you decide you never want to see them again, you don’t have to. I’ll be next to you the entire time.” He gave you a small smile, and you tried to steady your shaky hands.

You could do this. For Az, you tell yourself. For him, you’d brave a thousand dinners. You take a deep breath, and you two walk through the door.

***

Walking inside, everything looked as it did a few months ago, only there were a few new paintings in the hall. You were wringing your hands as you walked through the long hall, looking through all the paintings. There was one painting for each of Feyre’s new family, Cassian and Nesta, Elain and Lucien, Feyre and Rhysand with Nyx, but as you got to the end you stopped, Azriel slightly bumping into you. At the end, a portrait of you and Azriel hung in a beautiful gold frame. This certainly wasn’t there last time you were here. In the picture Azriel was staring down at you, a smile on his face, as you laughed at something. You were sitting at the pond you two often visited. Your eyes began to water at the beautiful picture before you.

Az grabbed your hand as he stared at the picture, “Feyre asked me to show her some of my memories with you, she claimed it was to see how you were doing. I didn’t realize she wanted it so she could paint it.” He wiped a tear that had escaped your eye, “She really does miss you. And she feels extremely guilty.”

While you knew she should feel guilty, you couldn’t help the tightening in your chest at his words. She truly missed you. You had always thought Rhysand and Az only said that to spare your feelings. There was still one thing you didn’t understand…

“Why’d she paint the two of us together? I mean, I know she painted everyone that’s together, but we aren’t.. you know. Why not paint us separately?”

You swore you could see a flash of sadness in his eyes as you said that. He tucked a piece of hair behind your ear, “I think she knows how I feel about you, and thought that we deserved our own painting.”

His confession sent your heart racing even more than it already was, and you were sure he could hear it. You stared into his eyes, praying to the Gods that he was saying what you thought he was saying. “And how do you feel about me Az?”

He took a step closer, eyes still burning into yours, your chests brushing each other as he cupped your jaw. Slowly he began to lean in—

“There they are! Rhys there in here!” A booming voice sent you two jumping apart, whirling to see who interrupted you.

It was Cassian.

Suddenly you remembered why you were here, and who you were about to see.

Az cleared his throat, "Sorry, we were looking at the paintings and got distracted."

Cassian had a smug smile on his face, no doubt aware of what he interrupted. "I can see that. I'd leave you to it, but there are people waiting to see you Y/N."

What you would give to walk up and smack that proud smile off his face. Azriel grabbed your hand again, and with your head down and your cheeks red, you let Cassian lead the way to the sitting room.

Everyone was standing and staring at you as you walked into the room. The intense stares you were receiving were more than uncomfortable, and you only wished you could crawl into a hole and never come out.

Az must have sensed how uncomfortable they were making you, because he sounded rather annoyed when he said, "One would think you all have seen a ghost with the expressions on your faces."

It was Nesta who stepped forward, giving you a slight nod, "Forgive us. I'm sure you can understand that after the events of last dinner, we are a bit hesitant to approach you."

It took everything in you to tamp down the anger rising in your chest at her words, "Don't worry, Azriel has been a great teacher and I have full control of my powers now. No need to worry about my ice impaling anyone, so long as you don't provoke me." A small smile played on your lips, and you felt Azriel tense behind you, his shadows creeping up behind you.

Feyre stepped forward then, gripping Nesta's arm to keep her from responding. "I'm glad to see you doing better Y/N. Thank you for joining us. Dinner will be ready soon." She motioned for everyone to sit.

Azriel brought you to one of the couches and sat on your right, and Mor gave you a small smile as she sat down on your left. There were hardly enough seats, and Lucien and Elain sat on floor pillows. You looked at Rhysand and Feyre, who sat on the couch across from you.

Rhysand tried to ease the tension by asking how training has been for you, and slowly you fell into easy conversation with the group. Azriel's firm hand on your knee stayed a reminder that should you want to leave at any point, you could. You tried to relax as much as possible, but Amren's sharp eyes had stayed on you since you'd walked through the door. You weren't entirely sure what about you had her so worked up that she was ignoring Varian's attempt at getting her attention.

Finally, dinner was ready, and to your dismay, you were sitting at the heart of the table, right next to Amren. Not even Azriel's presence on your other side was comfort enough. You tried your hardest to focus on answering any questions directed towards you and eating the food in front of you, no matter how difficult it was to get down.

As dinner finished, you found yourself back in the sitting area, wine glasses in hand. You were just starting to feel comfortable when Feyre stood up and looked towards you, "I'm going to check on Nyx and make sure he's still asleep, would you like to come with me Y/N?"

Azriel squeezed your hand in encouragement as you looked up at her, "I- Yes, I'll go with you."

She linked arms with you, and you could practically feel Azriel’s pride as he smiled at you.

Feyre led you both up the stairs and, to your confusion, a small balcony overlooking the Sidra. "I thought you were going to check on Nyx?" You already knew why she had brought you out here, but still wanted her to admit to the small deceit.

"I am, but it was more of an excuse to talk to you alone. I'm sorry for pulling you away from everyone."

You merely blinked at her, allowing her to continue, "Y/N I am so sorry for what I said to you the day I left for Under The Mountain. It was cruel and untrue and I never should have let you sit with what I said for so long," She turned to you with tears in her eyes, but you only stared out towards the river, watching the water rush by, "After I came back you were so distant and there was so much going on, I kept telling myself 'I'll talk to her later, after things have died down' but it just got worse, and I was too scared to apologize."

You clenched your jaw and looked toward your sister, tears stained her cheeks. You willed your voice not to shake, to stay strong in front of her, "That's still not an excuse. Even after what you said to me, I still was ready to follow you wherever you wanted to go. I would have done anything for you, but you pushed me to the side. I needed you Feyre. I needed help, just like you got help, like Elain got help, like Nesta. Instead, I was ignored by all of you and left to figure it out on my own. Why were they important enough to help but not me? Why wasn't I worthy of that help?" There it was. The question you had been dying to ask her. Why weren't you worthy of her, of her family?

She reeled back as if you'd slapped her. You supposed it had finally sunk in just how much her cruel words had affected you. "Y/N you were never unworthy of that. You were never unworthy of anything. I just... It was selfishness, on my part. I convinced myself that you didn't need me, that you could handle yourself, like you always did. I just wanted it to be over, for things to go back to normal, so I told myself that you didn't want or need my help. I was too scared and too selfish, and for that I am deeply sorry."

Tears are running down your cheeks, your attempts at wiping them away were futile. Despite her apology, despite her confession and acknowledgement of what she did, you still weren't sure it'll be enough. "As much as I want to, I still am not sure I can forgive you. Not yet at least. I promised myself though, that I would try," You turned away from her, back towards the river, "not for you, or for Nesta, or Elain. I promised I would try for Azriel, because I know if he had to choose, it would be all of you that he would pick, and he's too important to lose."

Your hands were shaking at your confession, and you prayed she wouldn't tell him what you said, or find some way to use it against you.

She sucked in a deep breath, "I'll take what I can get from you," she paused then, glancing at you warily, "Does he know?"

Your heart rate picked up and you licked your lips as you asked her, playing dumb in hopes that she wasn't referring to what you think, "Does he know what?"

"The mating bond. Does Azriel know that you two are mates?" Her tone was no longer friendly as she turned to look at you again.

You faced her, putting on an emotionless expression, "No, I haven't told him. I was waiting for it to snap for him." Only a partial lie. Yes, at first you were waiting for it to snap for him, but then you were worried that if things didn't get better between you and his family, he would reject the bond and choose his family over you.

She stiffened at your words, “you need to tell him Y/N. You can’t keep it from him forever, it’s not fair to him. Besides, Rhys and I have already figured it out, Amren has too. It’s only a matter of time before everyone else does and decides to tell him. I was furious when I found out Rhys didn’t tell me, and left for a week after finding out. I don’t want the same for you.”

You knew she was right, and the queasy feeling of guilt settled in your stomach. “I know I need to tell him. I’ll do it soon, maybe tonight, I just need to work up the courage.”

She reached over and squeezed your fidgeting hands, “He loves you, we can all see it. There’s nothing to be nervous about.”

While you knew that was likely true, you still couldn’t help the voice in your head that told you you weren’t good enough. That you’d never be worthy of Azriel and all the good he brings to your life.

***

After talking with Feyre for a little while longer and checking on Nyx, you made your way back to the sitting room to join everyone. You couldn’t help but feel slightly awkward considering the fact that everyone knew why you two had left, and were likely curious on if you two had made up. You weren’t entirely sure of that answer.

The night went on, and you found yourself leaning closer and closer to the Shadowsinger the more tired you got. You couldn’t help but let out a yawn, though you tried to hold it back.

Azriel leaned close whispering in your ear, “if you’re ready we can go. It’s your choice when we leave.”

You squeezed his hand as you looked up to him, your heart warming at his careful attention, “Yes please. I’m falling asleep over here.”

He gave you a small smile before standing up and extending a hand to you, and turning to the others, “Thank you for having us, but I think it’s time for us to go.”

Cassian was the first to say goodbye, clapping his brother on the shoulder and giving you a tight hug. Elain came up and squeezed my arm and said quietly, “I’m glad you came. I hope we see you again soon.” You could only muster a small smile.

Nesta didn’t bother to move from her seat as she gave you a nod goodbye, and Amren did the same before giving you a knowing smirk. It was Feyre and Rhysand who walked you two to the door.

Before you could turn to leave, Feyre pulled you into a tight hug. Pulling back, she kept her hands on your arms, looking at you with hope and question in her eyes, “Will we see you again for dinner next week?”

You hesitated, unsure of what to say before settling on, “I’m not sure yet,” her eyebrows began to furrow and her face fell before you continued, “but I’m not saying no.”

She smiled slightly before Rhysand looked at you kindly and said, “We’d love to have you there Y/N. You are always welcome here.”

You said your thanks before Azriel and you headed out the door.

***

The entire walk home was silent. You were too lost in your thoughts to talk as you went over ways to tell Azriel about the mating bond. It was time and as much as you hated to admit it, Feyre was right, he needed to know. So you spent the whole walk thinking about what you would say to him when you got back to your apartment, and how he would react.

Finally you made it inside, Azriel following behind you. You opened your mouth to speak, but Az spoke first, “I’m proud of you, you know. Even if you never want to see them again, you got through it. I’m proud you did that for yourself.”

His eyes were soft as he looked at you, a gentle smile on his lips. You looked down at your fidgeting hands and said softly, “I didn’t do it for myself. I probably would have chickened out if that was the case. I did it for you, Az.”

He stepped closer, cupping your jaw so you looked at him, confusion evident in his face, “Why?”

You knew what he was asking, why am I more important? Why would you stay for me but not yourself?

You stared at him, there was no better time than now to tell him, but you couldn’t stop your hands from shaking as you led him to the couch and sat down, his hands still in yours. “I care about you a lot Az. More than I care about myself—more than I care about anyone, really. I know I should’ve told you this earlier, I’m so sorry for not telling you earlier…” you looked at him then, his face blurry from tears that hadn’t yet fallen. From the look on his face he still wasn’t sure where you were going with this, so you continued, “We’re mates Az. You’re my mate.”

His grip on your hands tightened and his eyes went wide before his face turned hard. “You—you said you should’ve told me earlier… how long have you known?”

You swallowed, your voice slightly raspy as you responded, “I’ve only known for a little over a week, but I’ve had feelings for you for much longer than that. I know I should’ve told you as soon as it happened but I was scared, and I was afraid you’d reject me.” That wasn’t the entire truth, you were also scared he would choose his family over you, should you decide you wanted nothing to do with them.

“I don’t buy that for a second Y/N. I think I’ve made it pretty clear how I felt, so why’d you really keep it from me? Why’d you wait until after we had dinner with everyone to tell me?”

Of course he could read you, and knew you weren’t telling the truth. He’s the spymaster for a reason. You pulled your hands away from him and pulled your knees up to your chest, looking away from his hard stare as you said, “I didn’t tell you because I wasn’t sure if I’d ever be able to forgive my sisters, or stomach being around them. I knew you’d have to pick if I decided I wanted nothing to do with them, and I knew you’d pick them. So, I waited– I agreed to go to dinner and told myself that if I just played nice, pretended everything was okay, it would be enough. I did it all for you, because I know how important your family is to you.” Tears were falling down your cheeks and as you looked over at Azriel you could see the wetness of his tears on his face.

He scooted closer, pulling your arms away from around your knees, and pulled you into his lap. Both of his scarred hands cupped your face, wiping away the tears. “I’d pick you, love. A thousand times over I’d pick you, because never in my life have I met someone so perfect for me, so selfless and kind and absolutely beautiful– inside and out. If you decide you don’t want to see them that’s okay, I'm willing to make it work. I’ll see them for missions, for work, but I don’t have to go to dinners, or out Rita's with them. It’ll be just me and you, my mate, my best friend.”

You smiled through your tears, placing your hands over his. “I would never ask that of you Az. That’s your family, and you’ve known them far longer than you’ve known me. What happened… I’ll get over it, my sisters and I will figure it out like we always have. We will work through it, but It might take a while, so just be patient with me, please.”

His eyes dropped to your lips, and then back to your eyes in question as he leaned closer. You gave a slight nod before leaning closer, his soft lips meeting yours. Never in your life had you had a kiss that felt like this, one that made your body tingle and your heart sing. You could almost feel the ice around your heart finally melt, and your body warm at his touch. Your lips move in sync, his tongue parting your lips as he moved you so your back was against the couch cushions, Az hovering over you. You felt it then, the bond strengthening, the ropes of your souls intertwining as the bond snapped for him. He sucked in a breath, his grip on your waist tightening. A wide smile took over his features, and you don’t think he’s ever looked more beautiful.

He placed another, too short kiss to your lips before whispering, “I love you Y/N, I always have and I always will.”

You let out a soft giggle, pushing back the strands of hair that had fallen in his eyes. “I love you too Az, and I’d do anything for you. Now, how about I go make you something to eat?”

***

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