Hypothesis: Rejecting Dark Magic Could Save Viren's Life? Season 5-6 Theory!
This theory/speculation/thought experiment won't leave me alone so I'm gonna officially shout it out into the world!
There's a chance that Viren could maybe have unfucked saved himself.
We're all wondering - did Viren survive season 5? Has he kicked the bucket for good this time? Or is he like that cockroach you just can't get rid of?
I have some unfortunate (or maybe fortunate) news! Viren could definitely be alive!
And it's about dark magic, power, and fever dreams!
Those dark magic dreams Viren had all season had to mean something more! A push for Claudia to go full baddie? Yeah, most likely. We've all seen the Season 6 teaser.
But what if those fever dreams meant something... more?
What if it leads up to more than just Viren's ultimate end?
tl;dr - What if by rejecting dark magic, Viren unknowingly saved his own life? AKA: I dive into Viren's mind, and try to decipher his character arc a teeny bit.
Let's goooooo-
I have little evidence to back up this 'what if'. But I have something, however small.
So, to start this off:
"Tomorrow, the sun will rise, and you will not."
At first this sounds pretty clear - and it might still be! Viren could be sleepin' with the Xadian fishes. But when has Aaravos ever been perfectly clear? Mr 'I Swallowed Her' speaks in riddles and rhymes, and does he even know what the fuck he's talking about? (of course he knows, he's Aaravos, what am I thinking-)
One alternative take on this cryptic little message could be that the old Viren can't come to the phone right now. Because he's dead.
Viren rejected dark magic for the first time ever! He finally sees what Harrow has been seeing all along - dark magic twists you, twists everything around you, into corruption. We can see this with the corrupted Banthers - and Viren's face.
The sun will rise, and the old Viren will be dead.
But perhaps in his place will come a new man - one with a new goal, a new purpose, new motivations. In writing-terms, this means Viren will basically be a whole new character.
Characters are defined by their goals and motivations.
Since the beginning, Viren's goal has been somewhat the same (a bright future for humanity by using dark magic and overthrowing Xadia). But things have changed for Viren, especially during Seasons 4-5. Viren is completely powerless for the first time since Arc One.
Lord Viren has always been a character defined by his power. Even without using dark magic, he can still influence others to bend to his will.
Example image: Lord Viren threatening the young Crowmaster to summon the Pentarchy.
Lord Viren also takes Gren off the mission to find the missing princes, effortlessly placing Soren and Claudia in charge seconds after Amaya left. Viren convinced Soren to go and kill the princes on this mission.
Whenever his power and authority is threatened, Viren keeps pushing forward. Like the dark mage he was, Lord Viren keeps pushing until he gets the desired outcome. Soren said it best:
So, the truth is, someone who wants you to do horrible things, and convinces you that they're good, that's a villain. My dad... is a villain. And he's only gonna get more powerful, and the more powerful he gets, the more people will listen to him, and believe him, and follow him.
Meeting Aaravos is a pivotal moment in Viren's further pursuit of more power. Aaravos promises Viren more power and influence than ever before. Aaravos guides Viren to send the smoke assassins after the other kingdoms to motivate them by fear. Aaravos brings out the worst in Viren by targeting this fatal weakness.
Ultimately, Aaravos guides Viren to further pursue his hunger for more power. Viren convinced Claudia that Soren misunderstood the assignment of 'kill the princes' (dick move, Viren).
Then they march into Xadia, and take down the Sunfire Kingdom. And Aaravos takes Viren to the top of the Storm Spire to capture every essence of magic from baby Zym.
Power, power, and more power. Take a sip of water every time I write 'power', honestly.
So Viren falls to his death, and Claudia brings him back 2 years later. The fourth season begins, and Viren is already different. He is powerless. He isn't even wearing his High Mage attire, instead he's in bloodied and dirty prisoner clothes.
He's travelling with an elf, and he doesn't have his staff. He realises he doesn't even want his staff anymore. He's suddenly horribly afraid of heights, and is obviously frustrated about how he's losing power over everything.
His own mind and body are warring against him. He's going to die in 30 days, and he's experiencing panic attacks. Viren is falling apart worse than his tattered clothes.
And after he finally uses dark magic? He ends up passing out, and missing out on his last few days alive. Instead he's thrust into visions for days on end. Interesting to note that Callum didn't suffer from his own visions as long as Viren did. (perhaps because Viren does indeed have a long history of dark magic?)
These visions take Viren into his past, makes him look at everything in a new way. He sees the harm he caused, sees every scar he left on the world. In his pursuit of power, he ripped everything he loved apart. Including his own children. Soren hates him, and Claudia is diving deeper and further than Viren had ever gone.
It is the vision of Claudia that seems to shake Viren the most. To see what corrupted path he has laid out for his children horrifies him. To see Claudia follow this path so eagerly puts the final nail in the coffin.
No dark magic, never again.
Viren is done with dark magic, and he's done with Aaravos. He's done with his pursuit of power. He's ready to be free.
Interesting to note is that his past self is the one reaching out and holding on here. Reconnecting with his roots, his oldest beliefs.
--
At the end of the season, Viren is the most powerless he has ever been.
Laying under the stars, he cannot even find comfort in their shine. They remind him of Aaravos, and of all the mistakes Lord Viren has made. He certainly doesn't feel free.
He's chosen not to kill The Being, he's chosen to align himself with his roots. His roots as a young man dreaming of things far bigger than himself. He turns his eyes away from the stars, no longer reaching for them. Instead he closes his eyes, and awaits death's embrace.
What happens next?
Well, maybe the rejection of his old life leads him to find a new path. Maybe rejecting the call of dark magic puts him out of Aaravos' reach, and he can finally become someone better.
But I guess we won't know for certain until Season 6. So pls share your own thoughts and observations! I'd love to see what you all come up with!
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The above is a screenshot of one of tropes from Shadoo's section in the SPM TV Tropes page that caught my interest.
“Never mentioned to be killed...” Hm. If I go by my headcanon of how Dimentio fits into the story of the Pixl Uprising (i.e he's both the Magician's son and the surviving apprentice who defeated the Pixl Queen), then that would give another parallel of how Dimentio was once a hero who had a Pixl that could see the truth who stopped an antagonist who had the Dark Prognosticus who several thousand years later switched sides. And by another parallel, I mean it works perfectly alongside this.
The reason Shadoo exists (if they are the Pixl Queen) is because he couldn't go through with killing his sister; he cared for her too much and now here she is stuck at the bottom of the Flopside Pit of 100 Trials and wanting to exact revenge on the Ancients for sealing her away. Based on how Shadoo has a robotic text box and says that they were created by the Ancients, it can be presumed she forgot she was ever human. She forgot who she was.
Fast forward to the events of SPM and Dimentio's intended kill-shot for Count Bleck gets intercepted by Nastasia and knocks her unconscious in addition to injuring her. Either he had the power of that shot just enough to kill Bleck and no further and that's why Nastasia survived, because why waste precious energy? All he has to do is finish Count Bleck off who is already at death’s door thanks to the heroes.
Or Nastasia was just very fortunate to survive a full-powered blast. My money's on something like the former because Dimentio has well more than enough power to absolutely guarantee no one would survive an attack like that. (the average person who isn't a hero or built for combat— which Nastasia very much isn't— anyway.)
Then there's him saving O'Chunks and Mimi from what would have been certain death by teleporting them to Dimension D. We know they didn't end up in the same place as Peach and Bowser because neither they nor O'Chunks and Mimi make any mention of such. Pair that with the fact that the Void can't be seen from Dimension D and thus heavily implying that anyone inside it would survive the Void that would destroy everything else, and you're left with the only explanation of Dimentio having saved them. I do believe that Dimentio screwed up by not only "catching feelings" and he genuinely did care for the other minions deep down as much as he tries to deny that; and I have mentioned in a prior post about him putting all of the people who could have possibly done something about the Super Dimentio fusion in the same place.
If he hadn't cared as much as he did for them and just left them to their fates, he would have won. I feel that the reason why the floor came out under Bowser and O'Chunks is because of Dimentio— because why make a trap like that that is intended to kill any who don't make it out in time and then have it to where after a certain amount of time, it would give any of the heroes still inside who may somehow still be alive an escape and make a comeback? It makes no sense. And it's because of that, that Peach was able to survive by landing on top of Bowser.
Had he only teleported Bowser out and left O'Chunks, and teleported Peach while leaving Mimi, the minions wouldn't have been able to band together with Count Bleck and Tippi to recharge the Pure Hearts and destroy his invincibility. It was his inability to go through with killing them or just letting them die because he actually cared about them— cared too much— that caused his own undoing.
History literally repeats itself if one subscribes to believing Dimentio is both the Magician's son and the last surviving apprentice.
First Shadoo who may or may not be the Pixl Queen, was spared by her brother who couldn't bear to go through with killing her therefore causing future consequences for if she ever gets free. Then the minions— including Nastasia and Count Bleck who for the latter, Dimentio in his ever present wisdom decided to spare killing for later— with their love for each other that was allowed to continue existing all because he spared them for the time being, recharged the Pure Hearts and caused immediate consequences for himself and was the catalyst for his defeat.
In the first instance, he was on the “heroic” side. For the last he was on the “villainous” side.
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So you mentioned how you leave Hawke in the fade, do you ever bring Varric with on that quest? (Maybe I'm just a sucker for angst ((which I totally am cuz for my canon warden I have her date a soft Alistair who is pissed and dumbs her when she makes him king and then she makes the ultimate sacrifice and Alistair is devastated he never got to talk it out with her)) so I always take Varric and Cassandra with cuz I think it's nuts that the game doesn't have him react in the fade to leaving Hawke. So I picture a dramatic speech like fuck this Hawke let someone else be the hero for once, you deserve to live. And Cassandra is there seeing someone she put on a pedestal and saw as an unstoppable hero met their end.)
I've brought a few different combos into the fade but my favorite combo is definitely Varric/Cassandra/Solas; Varric because of Hawke, Cassandra because of Divine Justinia, and Solas for the fade itself.
I love and hate the fade quest for a number of reasons, but the part of me that revels in angst just adores it, it's such a heartbreaking part of Inquisition's story. I keep Alistair a Grey Warden, so it becomes a final choice of either making him stay behind, or my Hawke, Ed... it's a brutal choice that ends with Ed staying behind.
The meta reason for making this choice is I love Alistair too much. I want him and my warden to remain together until the end so I'd leave nearly anyone in the fade just to save him. And I don't want to make him king just to avoid the hard choice; he never wanted it, and Rose wasn't ever going to force it onto him.
But from a story-telling standpoint, Ed staying behind hurts so much because that's literally his fear; if he had his own fear engraved tombstone in the fade, it'd say something like "Abandonment" or "Being Left Behind." It's one of the reasons he stays by Anders' side after the events of DA2 despite ending their romantic relationship, he can't abandon the man he's loved for years even when everyone tells him he should....until, of course, we get to the fade and he feels he no longer has a choice.
Ed never wanted to be some hero or champion, but it's so engrained in his identity now that he constantly feels the burden of sacrificing pieces of himself for others. He feels the guilt of every loss he's suffered, whether it was actually his fault or not. In his mind, no matter how much it hurts, or who it hurts, it's the "right" choice to leave him behind... he's read enough of Varric's tragedies to know how this goes.
I also headcanon that when Carver's made a warden, he goes back to Fereldan to serve under the Hero of Fereldan and becomes best friends with Alistair. So I imagine that's another reason Ed insists he be the one to cover them. He went to great lengths to keep his brother out of this mess [even though Carver protested every step of the way] and doesn't want Carver to lose his best friend, even though he would also be devastated to lose his brother, but y'know.... Ed's just like, "Tell Carver I'm sorry, and that I always thought the world of him."
Even as Alistair, who never got to know his brother and dreamed about meeting his sister only for her to reject him, argued back... it's no use. Ed made up his mind to face his greatest fear to save them, and Ash begrudgingly agrees with him.
As for Varric, it hurts to watch him ask happened to Hawke... and then to listen to him recount a story about the kind of person Hawke was... and to give him a comforting hug... it all hurts.
But... that being said, I have thought about possibly doing a run where I do leave Alistair behind in a worldstate where Rose made the ultimate sacrifice. Alistair lost her and became disillusioned with the Grey Wardens, only remaining because what else is there for him? When it comes to someone staying in the fade, he insists it be him. He faces the nightmare as Hawke and the Inquisitor escape, and mutters under his breath, "Wait for me a little longer, my love," before attacking.
...because why not break my own heart some more, y'know?
Whether I'll be brave enough to attempt that is yet to be seen.
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I've got some fics in the works over on my main that will somewhat incorporate tales and explain how talesgames is NOT canon in the Reneagde AU and that talesVRworld (the theory that tales takes place inside a VR environment made by Faz Ent to test their projects and possible layouts of the megaplex) IS canon in this AU, so I figured that I'd make my stance on talesgames VERY clear.
I don't think that tales are canon to the games. At MOST, tales takes place in a VR testing environment.
The games are canon to tales, but tales is not canon to the games. Like how outside of crossovers that are not canon to either source game, Chelinka from Ring of Fates and Shirma from Chocobo Tales can never meet because they are not in the same world. Final Fantasy allegory because it's the other biggest game series that I can think of that has "the world of [series name]" mean a bunch of completely independent worlds that are not always the same world. Also if you want to go a different route,
spoilers for Bravely Default incoming.
There's hundreds of thousands of different Luxendarcs, each a bit different from one another. What happened in the first world you were in didn't happen in the other worlds you went to. Things were different. In one of the worlds, Til was the Norende survivor, not Tiz. If a side game that follows that world only were to be released, saying "the world of Bravely Default" and "the world of Luxendarc" would both be correct, but ultimately, NOTHING THAT HAPPENS THERE WOULD REALLY IMPACT THE WORLD BD1'S HEROS OF LIGHT ARE FROM (aside from one of the connected worlds you don't see during the Ouroboros fight probably having Til and Olivia cheering on Tiz, Agnès, Edea, and Ringabell BUT THAT'S CONNECTED WORLD TERITORY).
FNAF DOESN'T HAVE SOME FAIRY CONNECTING WORLDS.
Each world is separate from one another, but shares the basics (what the games generally lay out, but not always all of it)
That is why I think that Tales CAN take place in the world set out by the games, but the games themselves DON'T take what tales lays out as canon. Because tales is the world 3 to the games world 1.
I don't hate people who theorise that talesgames is canon, and I actually love a fair few AUs that use talesgames.
I am just sick of not being able to talk about theories without someone else coming along and derailing what was a pleasant conversation I was having with someone else.
Edit: sorry for the frequent post edits, I feel like I need to articulate this exactly right or else people will misinterpret what I say. Hence why I removed the meme (someone may just read the meme and get pissy without reading the rest of the text)and highlighted certain portions of the text with formatting.
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Random question bc I can’t stop thinking about Drive 2011 but are you on Team Driver Survived or Team He Probably Bled Out Eventually?
My friends are giving me very mixed answers
OOH this is a good question :0 despite being a very hopeless romantic optimistic person in most scenarios, i tend to think the worst when it comes to movie/tv show endings actually !!! like even within the last few months i've cried over endings and then found out im in the minority who thought the ABSOLUTE worst of what it meant and that most ppl did not interpret it the same way AT ALL lmasfdoDSLJFODSJASO
like i'll be like that movie was so sad i cant believe x died and every review written is like no they didnt. and im like oh. ok.
so my first watching of the end, i def thought driver died! i even expected him to visibly bleed out and die on screen and was surprised it wasn't shown (which i def think was on purpose.) but i think people who believed he didn't die have good reason to! he's got a lot of mc/plot armor and his past/characterization makes it more believable for him to survive such a situation.
i'd love to know what you think and what the majority between your friends is!
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