#or is it just naivete

[antianakin]

So I've been thinking about those posts that have gone around protesting the fandom inclination to not like villain redemption arcs because of the puritanical values that go along with believing people don't deserve the "rewards" that come with redemption arcs, usually: love, acceptance, understanding, etc. and the idea that no person deserves to be denied the basic things every human being should be granted.

And, of course, applying that to Anakin.

Because as someone who does not truly LIKE Anakin, I'm usually the first person to not be inclined to forgive Anakin post-child murder, post-genocide, post-betrayal. I'm generally the first one to believe Anakin can't get better once he's chosen to do his worst. I've called him a rabid bear that just needs to be put down for his own sake and everyone else's. There isn't a cure at this point, he can't be saved or redeemed.

Even Luke doesn't really REDEEM Anakin, Anakin's still only doing what he does to save someone he likes. Great, he throws down a regime to save a family member, where have we seen him do that before? Oh right, when he threw down democracy to save his wife and instigated the beginning of the Empire. He didn't destroy the Empire because he wanted to make amends. He didn't kill Palpatine to save the galaxy he'd helped destroy. He didn't do any of it because it was just generally the right thing to do or because he recognized just how much pain he'd caused and was seeking to do better as a person overall. He does it to save ONE PERSON, and we can pretty solidly say, he wouldn't have done it for ANYONE ELSE, probably up to and including Leia.

Which makes me believe that had Anakin miraculously survived killing Palpatine, he wouldn't necessarily be a better person. He wouldn't truly work to make any kind of amends to the galaxy he'd brought so much pain to.

And what kind of amends could he even DO at this point that would make any kind of difference? He's committed like 167 genocides at this point, oppressed an entire galaxy, killed billions of children on a whim, destroyed whole planets. What can he POSSIBLY do to make any real amends for that? What could possibly make up for that in any meaningful way? He can't undo the Jedi genocide and quite honestly no one should ever let him near a Force sensitive person, especially a child, again. He can't undo the three decades of oppression, he can't undo the fact that the Republic that existed has been basically burnt to ash and needs to be rebuilt from scratch and, again, quite honestly, no one should ever let him near politics ever again.

The best thing Anakin Skywalker can do for the galaxy at this point if he manages to survive is just disappear from it. Whether he dies or just walks away and spends the rest of his life meditating on everything he's done wrong and leaving the galaxy he's brought so much pain to well enough alone, I don't care. Luke can go visit him if he wants to, I guess, but no one else should have to deal with him.

I think that's where my biggest grievance lies in any kind of "Vader Lives" AUs, or "Vader changes sides inexplicably post-genocide" AUs. Because generally, now EVERYONE ELSE IN THE GALAXY has to deal with him like he HASN'T committed genocide. Like he HASN'T murdered mountains of children for the sake of selfishness. As if he isn't someone who would happily do so again if it came down to it as we see in ROTJ when he happily brings down another government to save one person. If saving Luke in that moment had required another genocide instead of just killing Palpatine, we all know he'd have done it. He absolutely would've murdered any number of children to save HIS child. Because he hasn't truly changed and his motivations for saving Luke are almost exactly the same as the motivations he had for saving Padme, it's just that the requirements shifted and the galaxy got very lucky that saving Luke ALSO meant taking out the Emperor and Anakin himself.

Why should the galaxy at large be obligated to share it with someone who would have happily killed them all not so long ago, just because Anakin MIGHT one day learn to be a better person? Why are they obligated to just live the rest of their lives hoping he doesn't decide to go ahead and commit his 168th genocide if Luke stubs his toe on the wrong planet? Why is their fear acceptable in favor of Anakin getting a chance to be good?

Once he's decided double genocide is acceptable? Once he spends DECADES oppressing everyone he can find because misery loves company? I don't really see a way out for him that isn't vastly unfair for everyone else.

#anti anakin #anti anakin skywalker #this is probably a wildly controversial opinion #i understand that it's definitely not the jedi philosophy #that they all believed even the worst people COULD choose to be better #however mace windu who is the ultimate jedi also comes to the conclusion that palpatine cannot be left alive #because he was too dangerous to the galaxy at large to do so #obi-wan kills maul because he is too dangerous to the galaxy at large to be left alive #could palpatine and maul have chosen to be better? sure. but they don't. #and it's not worth the damage they'll cause to wait for them to maybe do so #the galaxy does not deserve to have to keep suffering just to spare one person #why would anakin be any different? #why would anyone trust he's actually not going to snap and cause a genocide at the slightest inconvenience ever again? #he was good once and fought for the republic once and still committed multiple genocides #why would ANYONE trust him again? #and would it be the SMART thing to do to trust him to do better than last time? #or is it just naivete #anakin deserved to die because all he did was bring the galaxy pain and suffering #his redemption was not worth the galaxy having to suffer more #needs of the many #are greater than the needs of the anakin #kill him to spare everyone else his presence

[transmascutena]

thinking about how akio sees his younger self in utena and wondering if there's any fondness there. doesn't change the horror of what he does to her obviously but i do wonder

#akio and utena #m #long ramble in the tags sorry: #the thing about akio is that he's so evil bit he's also so human #he has feelings. i just don't know what they are (if anything) toward his victims #he loves anthy at the very least i'm sure of that. even if he hates her too. just like she loves and hates him. the lines are blurry. #and i just. i have to wonder whether any of that extends to utena at all. we know anthy at times feels similarly about utena and dios #(and akio by extension.) the simultanious love and resentment. so it's not too unlikely i think. #like. even though he never had anything but bad intentions in getting close to her #i'm not sure it's possible to do everything he did and feel nothing #not that he has any meaningful amount of guilt or remorse for it. i don't think that. #and i obviously don't think he “loved” her in any of the ways she might have thought he did #but did he not care at all? did he not feel any kind of fondness or sympathy or just. idk. pity? for her? #whatever the case it wasn't enough to reconsider having her killed so you know. how much does that actually matter anyway #idk. i think about it a lot. how abusers are rarely entirely indifferent toward their victims #the role he's playing in her life is so fucked up but it IS a role he's playing and i wonder how much he you know... internalizes it? #how much does he believe the illusion of family that he invites her into? because akio DOES often buy into his own illusions. #(similarly i think it's possible that akio is fond of touga too. their mentor-protégé relationship is horrible and abusive #but that doesn't make it less real. you know? maybe real is the wrong word.) #when he talks in episode 25 about wanting utena and anthy closer that's obviously so he can continue to groom her #but is there something genuine there too? i don't know. #again. it obviously does not make anything he does better or even different. but it is interesting to think about to me. #on the other side of that coin does seeing his own past youth and naivete and desire to do good that he (maybe) once had #reflected back at him through her mean anything? #is there resentment there? that she is what he couldn't be? or more likely he just thinks that idealism is stupid. #either way it's something he wants to take from her. anyway ramble over. #i talk a lot about utena's feelings toward akio (familial vs romantic love and the way the two are intertwined in fucked up ways) #but not much the other way around. probably because utena is actually a sympathetic character whose feelings the show very clearly #wants you to analyze and think about. #which is... less true for akio i think. though he's still a complex character with complex motives. he's just harder to get a grasp on.

[eggcats]

I am CONVINCED that the right answer in Ruthlessness when Poseidon asked for an apology was "actually fuck your son, I wish I killed him, you're right!" and to prove that he had FINALLY got the point all the gods are trying (and failing) to teach him because Polites got to him first

(although Poseidon was always going to kill his men and try to kill him, this was a test, but there was never a chance Poseidon wasn't going to take his OWN advice)

#epic the musical #the ocean saga #his apology just PROVED he wasnt listening to Poseidon's entire point beforehand #thats why Poseidon says that the line between naivete and hopefulness is invisible #bc the entire point of the song is that letting your enemies who have harmed you live to fight another day is the WRONG choice

[ai-higurashi]

You remind me of her (/derogatory?)

#ai's random art #hirogaru sky precure #hirogaru sky pretty cure #sora harewataru #cure sky #mashiro nijigaoka #empress undergu #kaiserin undergu #skearhead #look I love the similarities Sora and Mashiro have with the Empress when she was younger #if my brain was more coherent I'd write a whole essay about how the Kaiserin's similarities with Prism are easier to see #(both of them described as kind etc etc) but the similarities with Sora truly shine with Sky's conversation with Skearhead #'having interest in an enemy is not a bad thing itself but your interest is emotional' and 'your naivete will destroy everything you love' #(it's 2am so I'm not gonna look it up to quote it exactly sry) #in hindsight that's just. What he was doing with the empress 300 years before. It's probably the same kind of lessons he gave her #both Sora and Mashiro probably remind him of his student #and everything he worked hard to get rid of in her in order to make her strong

[silvermoon424]

I love horror/thriller/survival manga, but reading them can be so frustrating because there's always that one fuck who acts as a comically evil antagonist who makes things harder for everyone else. This is especially the case in death game/survival manga, which are like contractually obligated to have someone who is unrepentantly evil and fucks over everyone else.

But the protagonists are always like "Noooo, we need to work together with them! If we kill them we'll be just as bad as them!!!" No bitch, gang up on them and fucking murder them lmao. Stop pissing me off.

#if I were in that situation and it's ONE person who keeps ruining everything and wants to kill me I would simply kill them first #like it's one thing if they're just annoying but if they're ACTIVELY villainous and keep hurting people/fucking everyone over #and the characters are in a life or death situation #JUST FUCKING KILL THEM JESUS CHRIST STOP TAKING THE HIGH ROAD LMAO #I'm reading this death game manga right now and it's literally just ONE GUY who is trying to destroy everyone else #and his only weapon is a crowbar #there are like 20 other people and they haven't ganged up on him yet??? what the fuck??? #I may be an optimistic magical girl but I'm also pragmatic as fuck lol #like seriously just fucking kill him your misplaced naivete is not going to save you #manga #rant

[pbnmj]

#mcu spider-man currently being the most widely known spider-man is my very own plague #(pete's spidey btw) #i wish he were more mean. so bad. like i wish he had more of a characterisation other than like his biggest flaw being naivete .. #speaking as a person who barely reads comics because east asia spits on western comics LOL it was just impossible to afford #and now unable to purchase like anywhere i cant find em #what if i am a spider-man generalist who enjoys shoving different iterations of peter together #to create the ultimate bastard man roaming new york streets at any given time!!!!!! PLEASE #anyways noir does not have a conscience. only aunt may quotes in his head #the doodle tax for a wall of tags #my art

[littlespoonevan]

In some tags you said you've been thinking about early seasons Buck. Do you mind expanding on that? =))

ahh it's nothing substantial, i'm afraid!!! i was mostly just thinking about how much he's visibly grown up since s1/2???? like, in a way i feel as if oliver's appearance has changed the most since the show started? which i guess makes sense considering he's the youngest adult cast member but god like!!! i look at buck now and that's a man, obviously. but it really just emphasises how young buck actually looked in s1-3??????? from the wide eyes to the clean cut to lack of stubble (and also oliver is just bigger now too than he was back then). and you know this is ofc down to the fact that oliver stark is a human man who gets older every year but something something you could also read it as showing the progression of how the job has changed/impacted buck, y'know?????

#littlerosetrove #asks #also just #s1-3 buck is soooooo handsome #he still is obviously but i v much loved his early seasons look #though tbf 4x12-4x14 buck is Peak #like he has never looked better #bring back that haircut please #oh another thing his hair has definitely gotten darker since s1 which also impacts him looking more grown up #also to be clear i'm not saying he looks OLD now aksjdfh oliver is a 32 year old man that is not old #i'm just saying he was v fresh faced in the early days which contributed to buck's naivete/innocence

[alexiethymia]

One interesting thing about Lockwood which I love but is also very funny to me is the way he fights. Because sure he adapts and comes up with plans on the fly, but by and by he plays fair. He’s a teen prodigy when it comes to fencing. By far, he seems to be the best among them, and while I do love watching him fight, he’s also a bit rigid in the sense that it’s like he keeps forgetting not everyone will play fair and this isn’t a fencing match. Partly, I think it’s because he has great pride in his skills and he considers himself a gentleman’s gentleman, but I think it’s also a silly guy thing. It makes him absolutely great at fighting visitors where there are set rules, but not so when fighting the living. Golden blade gets caught up in it too, the posturing, and it’s funny that Lockwood says that ‘he’ was the one to beat him ‘twice’, when the latter learns after Lucy whacks him upside the head, while Lockwood could only be shocked (really Lockwood?) that he brought a gun to a sword-fight. Twice a girl’s had to save him by playing dirty (Lucy, Kat). (Do the women have to do everything around here?) It’s endearing and exasperating in equal measure.

#anthony lockwood #lockwood and co #lockwood & co #part of me thinks it’s because he can’t help but play hero #it’s his sense of personal honor too #slight hubris #a bit of naivete #and though they’re all child soldiers #it also speaks about the privileged background he came from #in contrast to Lucy and Kat #who will kick you down and fight dirty if they have to just to survive #he thinks everything is a duel when it’s really a fight for survival

[skydigiblogs]

oh my god i just got to the pinnochimon's dangerous game episode (43)

oh my god you all were not kidding about that puppet packing heat

#sky talks #digimon #digimon adventure #the amount of out of context screenshots i just sent to our brother #i know it's serious in-text but i couldn't stop laughing jknfdsjkbfsdfs #like god damn how the hell did the dub manage to get around that at ALL?? #i also know the stylistic contrast of Cute Cartoony Characters vs that's just a real ass gun is like #an artistic choice that the creators probably made #because again the text of the episode pretty explicitly shows that pinochimon doesn't really care about the consequences of shooting people #i doubt it's naivete so much as a lack of comprehension for the lives of others being more than “toys” to him #especially seeing his insecurities when tk calls him out on not having a single friend #and then when he “makes” a friend it's explicitly a doll shaped after him #because he's the only person he could see himself being a friend to #i always have such mixed feelings about the dark master's arc for reasons that this rewatch might actually remedy #but pinochimon's arc was always interesting in that it's one of few arcs in the original series that isn't super subtle about paralleling #one of the digidestined's current crises #like sub or dub it's super obvious that pinochimon is an inverse of yamato's crest of friendship #and by extension yamato himself #insecurity and a lack of trust in other people is what drives them both to suffer #yamato because he can't seem to imagine others in the group caring for his brother as much as he can #(which is a long-term issue but ramps up again in the dark master's arc unsurprisingly) #pinochimon because he can't trust any other digimon to be his equals #if anything pinochimon #along with all the dark masters #are like coworkers not friends #anyways #it's still extremely fucking jarring seeing that puppet boy packing heat

[pagesofkenna]

we need to stop letting people call things like ChatGPT AI and just exclusively refer to them as algorithm bots

#literally just anytime someone says AI say 'oh you mean an algorithm bot?' #its actually difficult to remember this at least for me if i don't actually think about it #i think 'why does ai writing bore me so much?' and i have to force myself to remember oh because its NOT ai #its algorithm writing. of COURSE algorithmic written structure is boring. its an algorithm #honestly algorithms were legitimately more interesting when they were in their infancy and you could see the wiring #people did some interesting art when you could juxtapose the sheer naivete of a system with organic human emotion

[calypsolemon]

Feeling some kind of way about how Steven sings a beautiful, empathetic song about how his mother's upbringing and his own are similar, about how both their guardians loved them but simply don't see them as capable and believing thats the core of the issue, right before experiencing torturous punishments (which his own guardians would have never done to him), alongside some of the most extreme physical and psychological abuse he experiences throughout the series, all done to him under the pretense that the perpetrator believed he was his mother.

#the way everyone is telling him he's just like his mother #as they repeatedly prove that actually her upbringing and experiences were VASTLY different #but also the way that I dont think he can ever truly understand her because his experience was so different #even though he's trying so desperately in some ways to BE her or embody her and reach out and understand her #not to imply he's innocent at this point in the series but he does approach the situation with a level of naivete about abusive families #which pretty much carries through into future despite him having this experience #because despite this being incredibly traumatizing to him. its different than LIVING under this for thousands of years #its different than essentially growing up under it #btw this is also not to say ''steven had it better'' I just believe steven did not have an abusive upbringing #the nature of his childhood trauma is really different and it gives him mental blocks in relating to that sort of oppressive control

[welcometogrouchland]

Something something Hunter and Willow both trying to outrun past identities that were assigned to them against their will something something in attempting to subvert it they become a shadow imitation of that identity, harkening back to it via it's absence, never truly able to escape it if they continue to define themselves in opposition to it. This also kinda happens to Luz btw

#ramblings of a lunatic #the owl house #toh #hunter toh #luz noceda #willow park #OUGH I'm cleaning out some of m drafts bc Like i said. on break from thinking rn #anyway i hope literally any of the above makes sense bc I've been thinking of it for a while #the bit about luz at the end is kinda tacked on but its mostly about how her azura-hero persona in ftf is her truest self expression so far #in that it combines her bubbly pushy naivete from s1 with her quiet and serious demeanor from s3 ep1 #all the maturity mixed with the wonder and optimism. whereas before when she tried to live as one without the other- #-it was incomplete and flawed in ways that hurt her #it's not quite the same though bc i dont think Luz's presentation in thanks to them is purposeful- #-it just arose out of circumstance #whereas Hunter and Willows personas are purposeful projections of who they want to be seen as #it's just when they become trapped in a new self image bc they're afraid to lose it and. yeah #anyway i love how toh does like. overshoot. in it's arcs #someone gets what they wanted but they've changed along the way and it's not true to then anymore #or they have a goal and then they reach it and then they have to deal with the new challenges and consequences of reaching that goal #it's good it's a part of what makes even brief arcs feel fleshed out

[emblemxeno]

Given how many people claim to love Corrin OUTSIDE of Fates, I'd doubt that claim. Imo it's just that Fates plot betrayed Corrin a lot of times

Maybe, but even then, that's the kind of perspective on Corrin that bothers me the most.

Of course it's not bad to like Corrin outside of Fates, but most of the time their personality is piecemeal and sometimes flanderized. They're not center stage, they're plucked from a point in Fates' storyline (pre choice for Warriors, post choice for Engage, whatever the new alt demands for Heroes) that's intentionally left vague and open-ended, and in doing so, Corrin becomes palatable to more people.They're open minded, sweet, supportive, and that's it. There's nothing that's seemingly "offensive" to people's story experience as usually associated with Corrin when consuming non-Fates material. People can like Corrin without being reminded of why they don't like Corrin. And imo that's a little, uh, weird, I guess.

And I wouldn't have these mixed feelings about it if people didn't claim that Corrin is better written in non-Fates material, but that's often the case, and that causes me to take said opinion less seriously. Cuz at that point, what's actually being liked, is it Corrin, or just the general Protag Personality tropes?

As an example, for as much as I adore Engage, all of the female emblems personalities blend in very easily with each other, Celica, Eirika, and Corrin most of all, cuz they're all hit with the "fanservice flanderization" so they don't the boat with any controversial personality tropes. Yeah it makes sense since they already developed through their games' events and thus don't need to do anything akin to their mistakes in their home games, but when someone says they like Corrin in Engage but not in Fates, what's exactly so likeable about her that I wouldn't mistake her for Celica or Eirika? Or even Marth to an extent? It's the same case in Warriors because Celica, Caeda, Marth, and Lianna are all there too, with similar personality tropes. Heroes sort of gets away with it because "hee hee hoo hoo fun and cute designs" that no one else has and variants that deal with actual character development stuff (Legendaries, Fallens, Braves, Ascendeds) all of which help not just Corrin, but Eirika, Celica and others separate themselves and be true to their home game, wrapped in a hellish gambling scheme.

To cut my ramblings short, I can get why people like Corrin outside of Fates, and I even appreciate to a certain extent, but at the same time it can read as superficial and dismissive to their overall character.

#fire emblem fates #fire emblem discourse #corrin fire emblem #and like i wouldn't expect them to try and include their naivete in non fates games cuz why would they lol #but eh there's always something they could do that isn't just 'aw isn't Corrin so sweet and nice :3" #fire emblem

[betty-bourgeoisie]

"love is a revolutionary act" has it's virtues as a political philosophy but tbh I feel like "trust is a revolutionary act" has had a lot more practical application for me

#more aro friendly too #anyways #trusting stranger is not inherently an act of naivete #it can also be an active choice you make #trust is a starting point for connection #it allows people the opportunity to be good and do good #and it makes kindness easier #trust is a radical act #but unfortunately I do think it's harder to trust people then it is to love them (just my opinion)

[k1rishiki]

The Tiktokers Are Saying That Romeo And Cinderella Is About Grooming

#HELLO???? NO IT FUCKING ISN'T??????? don't f w me when it comes to romeo and cinderella i'm literally named after that shit #inb4 i also know more abt grooming than the average tiktoker bc i was Literally In The Situation They Say Happened In The Song #ie. groomed by an older teenager when i was 13-14 #the entire claim is based around a. the romeo and juliet metaphor and a random ass claim about romeo's age (he doesn't have one but is. #based on context clues. two years older than her tops). and even if it was true r&j still wouldn't be abt grooming bc that would require it #writer to view the relationship as such. which shakespeare obv didn't. + it's not literally about r&j it's abt a teen girl comparing her #relationship to famous love stories and the pop cultural perception of them. b. the bit abt her parents not liking her 'romeo' when like #there are half a million reasons someone's parents could disapprove of their relationship that don't involve an age gap. also the parents #are shown to be v overbearing throughout the song so like . if anyone is mistreating her it's them. c. any of the various childlike #references. she's a teenager reaching for the adult world while still experiencing childlike naivete. this is to emphasize that. it doesn't #mean that she's secretly younger or anything. d. the school uniform line. she means that she's willing to run away at a moment's notice #without looking back home to go get her real clothes so that her parents could have the chance to stop her. it's a statement of devotion an #there's nothing to imply that romeo isn't also dressed in a school uniform. e. the you'll hate me line. a major part of the song is her #internal conflict of having to choose between her parents and romeo. her concern isn't based on the idea that if she does something wrong #romeo will hate her it's based on the fear that her indecision will hurt romeo's feelings. which is seen again in me and juliet. the #official sequel song. which is about how after they run away together she becomes overwhelmed by her internal conflict bc it didn't just go #away after she made her choice and she still loves her parents enough to question it. and finally f. the wolf line. which is about her #indecision. it's about her indecision. if romeo doesn't whisk her away quickly enough while she's leaning in that direction she feels she'l #have more time to doubt herself and it'll eat her up inside. it's a common metaphor babes and it's LITERALLY WHAT THE SEQUEL SONG IS ABOUT #romeo.txt

[thewritehag]

Maybe this is another "confused ace" thing, but hate fucking as a concept doesn't make sense. I feel like it's not real outside of erotica written by cis-male writers in the 70s.

#if you really need sex there's very probably a dozen people who are at least ambivalent towards you to the one person who hates you #asexual #i don't think it's stereotypical naivete lobbed at ace people either #i understand angry sex or any kind fueled by intense emotion because having sex about big feelings *does* make sense #hate isn't an emotion it's a state of thinking and being #it takes a lot of energy to actually hate someone why would you expend more time and physical energy with that particular person? #just thinking