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eyesofshan-if · 5 months

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speaking of korean names, i think you got some of them wrong in your preset choices. I'm pretty sure the korean name for sky is haneul, river is kang, and ha is summer/sunshine. now I'm not a korean so i could be wrong but when i did my research when i was trying to search for my mc's name those are what came up for me. i hope i didn't sound rude, i just wanted to help 😅

hello hello! i understand why you would think that, and would like to explain a little about why i chose certain names and paired them with certain meanings. now, i would also like to disclose that i am also not korean, but here is the reasoning that i have. if anyone is a native korean speaker, please feel free to correct anything or give additional comments!

and now, buckle up for a history lesson, everyone!

first of all, one thing to know is that for many korean words written above, they have both a hangul (한글) form - korean writing that we often see in modern media - and a hanja (漢字) form - chinese characters that were used as the writing system in korea up to 1443 CE. at that time, hangul was introduced in joseon dynasty korea during the reign of king sejong the great, in an attempt to make written literacy more available to the common people.

hence, when looking at the meaning of the words above, one must first know the hanja character that the hangul pronounciation refers to. many words with the same hangul can have the different meaning. their corresponding hanja, however, can be completely different!

let me explain this with some of the words that you have brought up.

while kang 강 does indeed mean river, its corresponding hanja has a variety of characters: 姜, 康, 強, 江, 剛, 㝩. the first is 姜, which is most common, and actually means ginger. the kang that corresponds with "river" is actually the fourth character, 江.

however, there is another hanja with a different hangul that is also translated to "river", but is used in different situations. that is ha, which i assume is the one that you think is wrong.

ha also has a number of corresponding hanja, but i'll only put the relevant ones here: 河 and 夏. both are read as ha in korean hangul, but the first means "river" while the second means "summer". in mandarin chinese, they are read as "hé" and "xià" respectively.

the last one, cheon 천, has three corresponding hanja characters - 千, 天, 川. 千 means thousand, 天 means sky and 川 also means... drumroll noises... river.

so, i hope this has helped you understand this a little better! and for everyone who stuck around until the end, here's a very pleasant 💓and 🍪 for you!

#asks #o: insu's library #they really love their rivers 🥲🥲

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rainbowsky · 2 years

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Hi,

I scared to ask this because it may make me look like a fool or maybe a big asshole I don't know. But is dd's song 无羁 (no sense) dedicated to gg. I mean like he is telling him that to love is no matter what his solo fans comment or say about them. I am a new turtle and also not a native Chinese speaker so all I have heard is translated versions. I am sorry if this is someone inappropriate or completely ridiculous of me to ask. I don't know all the do's and don'ts of the fandom yet. So if this is anyhow inappropriate question then I am extremely sorry and please do just mention if you consider replying to this ask. Thank you in advance 🙏🏽

Hi new turtle! 💛🐢💛

Aww, so much fear and hesitation, Anon. 🤗 It's OK to think your thoughts and feel your feelings. It doesn't 'make you' anything. As long as we're doing our best and being conscientious and actively trying to learn and grow, that's all anyone can ever ask of us.

I don't know if the song is dedicated to GG or not. No one really does. The beauty of CPN is that we all get to form our own thoughts and feelings about this stuff. If it resonates with you as a song for GG, that's totally OK and it's totally your right to feel that way.

Over time our CPN might shift as we learn more and as our feelings/ideas change. That's OK too. There can never be any correct or incorrect way to interpret things* when the facts are not fully known and there isn't enough information to draw well-informed conclusions.

*As long as we are being respectful and protective of GG and DD and of each other.

I encourage you (all of you) to think for yourself and form your own ideas about things.

No one out there is an authority on any of this. Not me, not anyone (well, except for GG and DD and those closest to them, anyway). Some might know more and might have more experience, and that might give them a more informed picture of things, but that doesn't mean their ideas and interpretations are necessarily correct or incorrect. There are tons of things new fans encounter that they might see differently just by virtue of who they are and what their unique point of view is.

There are, for example, a lot of things that are widely and broadly accepted by most experienced turtles that I just don't see the same way. Perhaps because I'm a guy and I view things through that lens, or perhaps because of other things I've seen and experienced. That's totally OK. A lot of my perspectives have shifted over time as well, and that's totally normal.

And you aren't obligated to commit to any one perspective or interpretation, either, Anon. This is something I wish more people understood. I think it can be very powerful and liberating to embrace the unknown and simply say, "I don't know, and that's OK." rather than feeling like we have to take a stand one way or the other.

For example, I go back and forth between believing GG and DD got together long before filming, and thinking they got together during filming. Rather than agonize over which view I think is 'right' - rather than feeling like I have to pick one or the other - I simply enjoy both. It is actually more fun and interesting to think about things from one angle, and then the other. I did this with my Japan trip post.

So, Anon, I encourage you to think about what that song means to you in relation to DD and GG, and then watch how your perspective changes (or doesn't change) as you continue on with your turtledom. Discuss things with other turtles all you like, but don't let anyone tell you that you're wrong when we don't have enough information to draw a proper conclusion.

Now, it might interest you to hear that my sister, who is a massive GG stan and a pretty well-informed turtle of a few years now, fervently believes that song was for GG. So you're not alone.

youtube

I don't have an opinion either way, CPN-wise. My primary opinion on Wugan is that it's an amazing song. One of my absolute favorite songs either DD or GG has ever done, and DD has practically never looked hotter than when performing it on NYE.

#baby turtle #the mysteries of yizhan #bxg perspectives #fandom reflections #wugan #ask

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catasstrophui · 2 years

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About the pronunciation guide in the MXTX official EN books

I'm still staving off my knee jerk reaction, but I managed to gather my thoughts about the pronunciation guide in the MXTX official EN books. How it's going to go is disclaimer > what happened > is it that bad > how I feel > what else can be done.

Disclaimer

I'll do my best to be nuanced and neutral-ish about it, but seeing as this is relatively personal I'm also going to make sure I don't minimize myself and how I feel. Idk why you'd be looking for nuance on social media, but I do think there's a certain degree of responsibility that we have over the things we say in public.

This isn't meant to denigrate the team of people who worked on the EN official translation or the people who have bought/are planning to buy the books, I'm not looking to yuck your yum. Please enjoy the things that make you happy, especially during the holiday season!

I'm mostly neutral about the books, actually. Since I have the good fortune to be fluent in CN and as CN diaspora living in an Asian majority country, I have access to the traditional CN and simplified CN versions. CN people and diaspora are not a monolith as they are diverse with vastly different perspectives, so my experience is most likely not universal and I'm not trying to speak on behalf of anyone.

What happened

So if you or your friends bought a copy of the MXTX EN official translation, you'll notice that the book contains a pronunciation guide so we can learn how to say the names of our favorite characters and places. They use English sounds and words to describe how these words should be pronounced, which at best is a fair approximation of the actual pronunciation, and at worst is unfortunately wrong.

I have seen pronunciation guides like these in books like English fantasy novels and if I remember correctly [Language] for Dummies books, and I do think that they do serve the purpose they were written for, but I am curious why alternatives such as hanyu pinyin, the standardized romanization system I personally learned when I went to a Chinese medium school, bopomofo (zhuyin/kaopu I think?) which is another common CN learning system medium that uses symbols, or even the International Phonetic Alphabet (or other pronunciation guides like Wades-Giles) were not used.

Is it that bad?

Of course, EN and CN are vastly different languages and in many cases you'd be hard pressed to find the equivalent sound of a word in another language. It would be difficult for a non native speaker to pronounce sounds if they're not familiar with it or if they haven't encountered it before. It's normal to want to be able to say the names of people and places right, and fans of the work will be referring to the pronunciation guide to be able to do so.

Unfortunately, some of it is wrong, and that means that people who are trying to learn will be relying on a source that isn't exactly correct. I do think it's a good thing to help people learn, and I think putting in effort is better than no effort at all, but does this approximation of pronunciation actually help, or does it spread misinformation that causes more harm than good?

How I feel

For a lot of CN diaspora (I use this here because I am CN diaspora) the pronunciation of names is a sensitive, personal topic. I have an English name, a Chinese surname and a Chinese given name with two syllables, and some of my earliest memories involve me just not bothering to introduce myself with my Chinese name because I didn't think they would be able to pronounce it correctly, and I didn't think they would bother trying to do so in the first place.

In fact, I've had my name made fun of or just dismissed outright because it was too much to deal with, and that did make me wonder why more difficult (to my younger self) names like Siobhan and Sean and Dean and Blaiyyid were pronounced correctly, but not mine. Am I not worthy of personhood too?

Combine that with the complicated feelings surrounding knowing English because I come from a country colonized by British rule for centuries and being told that the English that I know is less than simply because I don't come from Australia, the US or the UK, and well. That knowledge that I am seen to be less than just because I don't fit into this specific niche box does kind of hurt.

I haven't made fun of the pronunciation guide and I just don't really want to interact with the books in any way right now because my feelings are still too raw about it, but I do know people who make fun of the guide as a way to cope. If I don't laugh about it or maintain some distance in some way, I'll cry, actually, so I'm off social media for a bit until the book hype dies down. It would help a lot if there's a specific tag for the MXTX EN translation of the books, actually!

I do think that making fun of the guide feels different when it comes from a person who is CN or CN diaspora versus from a person who isn't - the thing is that this name issue is something that a lot of people live with, and it's not something I can step away from whenever it's convenient for me, and it doesn't feel great to have something that I can't and don't want to change about myself be made fun of. It's only funny when we're laughing together, and frankly, the pronunciation guide was actually pretty offensive and reminiscent of a lifetime of microaggressions stacked on top of each other for me.

If you're making light of the situation, I do think it is your right to, but if you could spare a moment to consider how your friends feel about it, just to hold space for them if they need it, that would be really great, especially if you're non-CN. It's also perfectly valid to just not deal with it at all!

What else can be done

The thing is, I'm kind of baffled that this was the route chosen when there were serviceable alternatives like an introduction to pinyin or a QR code leading to an audio pronunciation guide. This pronunciation guide could have been left out and the readers who were invested would have found a way to find the correct pronunciation, since these works have live actions, donghua, audio dramas and a robust fan base to draw from. Google also has an audio pronunciation aid.

I guess how I feel about this is that it's not enough to just have the intention not to offend - hurt is still hurt and harm is still harm, whether it's the feelings of people who have had their names erased and made fun of, or the feelings of people who rely on this guide to do better but unfortunately fall short through no fault of their own.

For the record and just to cover all my bases, it doesn't make a difference to me if the pronunciation guide was okayed by the translator team or if it was written by someone who's CN or CN diaspora, this is just meant to be me getting how I feel out into the void - I'm not particularly interested in debating any of the points I've made here, but please be at least civil in the replies etc and keep in mind that CN people aren't a monolith and that they can and do disagree with each other.

I'd like to think that this pronunciation guide was well intentioned and done out of ignorance, probably because the alternative makes me really sad, but now that I've said it and it's out there, I think we can do better, even if it's not that deep for some of us.

From this Twitter thread

#mxtx #mdzs #svsss #tgcf #chinese diaspora #race #racism #asian diaspora #language and translation #sorry i'm figuring out this tagging thing please let me know if it's funky

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kouzaires · 4 years

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so i understand that the BLM movement in the states is getting full coverage, which is Super Important of course and i fully recognize that, but right now i also want to raise awareness for another nation: the philippines, with its proposed anti-terrorism bill

(source: scoutmagph’s fb post)

essentially, under this, filipinos can be prosecuted for the MOST VAGUE DEFINITION OF TERRORISM. now, this new terror bill is threatening the filipinos’ right to freedom in its entirety. it’s literally unconsitutional in the country:

(source: official gazette gov website, the 1987 philippine consitition)

so, for some added bg context, this is a country that celebrates the anniversary of when a dictator was ousted from presidency (see: the edsa people power revolution against president ferdinand marcos). this whole fiasco made martial law and oppression in general a very hard topic for the country. and yet lately it has become a den of incompetent—or alternatively, Malevolent—politicians who are playing with lives.

in 2016, president rodrigo duterte began his term and basically allowed the police to conduct extrajudicial killings on supposed drug addicts (even without confirmation, and definitely without trial) who were often impoverished members of the lower class. it got so rampant that the people began to use the abbreviation “EJK” in daily use. he also considered reestablishing the death penalty at this time.

lately, he’s been getting incredibly friendly with the chinese government, placing the country in support of that institution against the beliefs of many countrymen. furthermore, the ph govt has absolutely botched the covid crisis, promising mass testing that never happened and wasting two months of community quarantine in the metro without being able to contain the disease. (included in this mess are instances of quarantine breach by government officials, such as senator koko pimentel) (ALSO early in the pandemic the president said he’d just “shoot to kill” the people breaking quarantine). a few weeks ago, the government even had a major media outlet called abs-cbn shut down, prompting a discussion of censorship among the people.

this president is not good, not as a person and not at his job. i mean, this ‘poem’ was made from a WORD FOR WORD TRANSCRIPT of an OFFICIAL STATEMENT he gave to the public early in the pandemic when a local university institution developed a basic testing kit for covid. read it and weep:

(really rough translation for the filipino phrases here, because even for a native speaker this was really convoluted:

kung kulang - if it’s not enough

kokonti lang kasi, eh - because there’s only a few

meron namang lumalabas pa - there are people who are still going out

sabi ko nga - as i said

maybe meron nang una - maybe there has already been a first

mga gago ang tao n’on—tamang tama lang - the people back then were stupid—it’s just right

tapos, ‘yung spanish flu - afterwards, that spanish flu

kawawa ‘yung mga tao - the people are pitiful

pero mas kawawa ‘yung sa middle east - but those in the middle east are even more pitiful

kung may birthmark ka - if you have a birthmark)

this was not edited, and completely unabridged. i listened to the broadcast. these were the exact words of the leader of a country, as told to its people.

This Guy is a man with diehard supporters. rather like trump supporters, honestly. i don’t understand how. so yeah, let’s just say he isn’t great, but according to the rules of philippine government, he’s in office until 2022. and Now we have this bill.

this is not okay. this is an irresponsible government trying to shackle its people. this is an insult to the filipino people. this is oppression, and we should not stand for it.

so PLEASE share the word in any way you can and help this information gain traction! i will not let my countrymen be silenced. support #JunkTerrorBill and sign this petition

disclaimer: i am not the best person to talk about this so please correct me if ever i misspoke. but i had to speak out, as a normal citizen who may not know everything, but who knows enough to realize how wrong this is. if you want to learn more, there’s loads of information online from the news outlets!

#my post #philippines #oustduterte #oust duterte #junkterrorbill #junk terror bill #politics #terrorism #freedom #freedom of speech #not fandom related but i had to say it

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didim-dol · 6 years

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Explanation of Shamanic Rituals in 손: The Guest

This is not the most organized of thought pieces, so I do apologize for that. I’m not being paid, so I honestly don’t care enough.

Disclaimer: I am not a native Korean speaker, nor do I have any academic training, except access to academic texts, and a significant interest in the subject. Also, I’m married to a native Korean speaker, so trust me when I say, I badgered him all the time while we watched the show, asking questions that allowed me to better understand what I needed to look for in research. I can read Korean and type it, so I was able to find a lot with information he provided me. Google Translate sucks balls, but it’s often good enough, and/or points in the right direction. If you are a native speaker, and I’m totally wrong, please let me know. I will fix it and credit you!

I know there were lots of vagueness and unanswered questions about the rituals, who Park Il Do was, and what the ever-loving-fuck was going on most of the time, so I want to address them. I don’t speak to the Catholic part of any of it, except to say, in Korea, Catholicism is one of the more tolerant of Christian denominations that proselytized/evangelized there. As you can see, while not the same, they are compatible with one another, like in structured rituals dealing with possession, among other things. If you are Catholic and want to contribute to the post, please do!

First let me point out that in the entire show, the terms “possession” and “exorcism” are used rather loosely, and encompass many different rituals that don’t have obvious English translations. Some were more confusing than others, which I want to clarify.

Episode 8-9: Seo Joon (the little girl)

In Episode 8, when Seo Joon is questioned about what happened to her, she tells Hwa Pyung and YukGwang she was approached by an old lady ghost in old-fashioned clothing, who was frightening at first, but later wasn’t

YukGwang asks about the symptoms she had (digging, aching body), and says she has been “possessed” and she needs an “exorcism.”

The translations are a bit funky here: The English subtitle is “possession” which is true, but not in the way we think of it the west, which is primarily from the Catholic Church. What is actually happening to her is called: 무병 (巫病, mu byeong), or “spirit sickness/ghost sickness,” and she is experiencing 신병 (shin byeong) or “self-loss”, which is what happens to someone destined to be a shaman. They serve their spirit guide, take a new name, and thus “lose” their former identity.

Then he tells her grandmother she needs an “exorcism,” which is not a very good translation. He says she needs 내림굿 (naelim kut) which is the initiation ritual of a new shaman, meaning she needs to accept her role and become a shaman.

But when Seo Joon says the lady is gone, replaced by spirits with knives, they realize that can’t happen. The old lady she saw was the spirit who should have become her spirit guide, and the one she would serve as a shaman, but Park Il Do destroyed her, leaving Seo Joon without a guide, and vulnerable to the evil spirits that come for her instead.

In the end of the character’s arc, he talks about another “exorcism” which is, yet again, a different ritual. This is the 눌림굿 (nullim kut), or the ritual to suppress a potential shaman’s abilities to see spirits. It is the same one that was used on Hwa Pyung when he was a child.

Episode 12: The Blind Shaman

Choi Yoon goes to see the shaman who performed a 굿(kut) on Hwa Pyung as a child. She tells Choi Yoon she remembers the boy from the 세습무 (saeseummu), or “hereditary shaman” family. He asks which kind of ritual she performed on him, and she says nullim kut, but its effects are wearing off. She refers to the 큰귀신 (k’un gwishin), or the “great/powerful spirit,” which they call Park Il Do, that wants him. This weakening of the ritual’s power is why he is able to see the ghost of his father again. It doesn’t explain why his eye hurts or why he can’t touch the cross, though.

Episode 16: The Ritual to capture and contain 손

In the flashback in Episode 16, we see Yukgwang telling Hwa Pyung how to trap Park Il Do in his body. He uses two words the translators didn’t even bother with. I don’t blame them.

The first word is the ritual that Hwa Pyung should use to trap Park Il Do, and is called the 팔문금쇄진 ( 八門金鎖陣; palmungeumswaejin) or “The Eight Gate Lock Formation,” which comes from the Chinese novel, Romance of the Three Kingdoms. It is a fictional military formation, but also a real ritual used in Korean Shamanism. It probably comes from the influence of Buddhism and Taoism from China, which goes back to the 3-4th centuries.

Each gate represents one of the Eight Generals/Gods of the Eight Doors and the Eight Directions (If you have a better translation for these, let me know. I did my best.):

North- 휴문신장 (休門神將) - God of the Gate of Rest

North East- 생문신장 ( 生門神將) - God of the Gate of Life

East- 상문신장 (傷門神將) - God of the Gate of Injury

South East- 두문신장 (枓門神將) - God of the Gate of Fabrication

West- 경문신장 (驚門神將) - God of the Gate of Fear

North West- 개문신장 (開門神將) - God of the Open Gate

South- 경문신장 (景門神將) - God of the Gate of View/Scenery

South West- 사문신장(死門神將) - God of the Gate of Death

The act of doing this ritual is called 팔문진경 (palmunjingyeong).

In the actual ritual, an intricately cut piece of paper in the shape of a cylindrical net is hung from the ceiling where the ritual is taking place. Eight nets are then strung out from the center net to eight more hanging nets with the names of the above deities written on amulets in red ink, pasted to the corresponding net. The image of the ghost or spirit that needs to be captured is then placed in the middle of the net, like so:

Source

Because Hwa Pyung is trying to trap the spirit of Park Il Do in himself, he carves each of the god’s names into his body in, roughly, the proper directions. It’s much more gruesome, but works. His blood is red (the color of the dead) which is a substitute for red ink. The last one, he writes on his arm which is significant because 팔 (pal) means “arm” in Korean, as well as the number “eight” in Sino-Korean numbers.

The characters are Hanja, and correct as far as I can tell. I can imagine it would be quite difficult to carve complex characters into one’s skin, upside down, and they are kind of hard to read.

Side note: I tried to find out how these directional gods corresponded with the 오방신장 (obang shinjang), or the “Gods of the Five Directions” in Korean mythology, but I was unable to find anything. It may be that the difference is in pre/post-Buddhist and Taoist influence. I’m not sure.

손: The Guest

The term 손 (sohn or son) It means “hand” as well as “guest/visitor.” In shamanism is it referred to an “ominous force,” which is why the villagers call the thing from the sea, sohn.

It was unclear from the beginning if sohn and Park Il Do were the same or different, even in Korean, as Korean is very vague. Pronouns aren’t really used, so there is no real reference to who they are talking about except in context or direct questions. This is why Choi Yoon assumed that “he” was Hwa Pyung, not his grandfather, when the shaman said sohn was still in the body he had possessed back then.

So at one point, they were not the same. Park Il Do was possessed by the ominous force known as sohn, then transferred to the driver. Then I’m not sure if he went into Hwa Pyung’s grandfather, or if there were more in-between. I can’t remember.

As the grandfather was from a hereditary shaman family, his body was powerful enough to hold him for the 20 years, along with Park Il Do’s body buried in the backyard. This is like the crow that allowed Park Il Do put in the pickled shrimp, so he always had access to Hwa Pyung, even when he was far away. How he stayed attached to Park Il Do’s body, idk, except because it wasn’t destroyed or cremated. Wrapped up like that, the body didn’t decompose.

Miscellaneous Words

살 (煞 sal) - “invisible arrow,” “evil spirit.” Sal is also a homophone for death in Chinese, and in pure Korean, it means arrow. Therefore one is struck with an arrow of misfortune. More generically, it is evil/bad things that are caused by malevolent spirits.

살푸리 (salpuri)- ritual to remove curses and evil spirits; or remove the arrows of misfortune.

I’ll probably add more to this later on, but if you want to add to it, please do! If you have any corrections for me, you can message me or reply. But don’t be an asshole.

11/23/18 - NEWLY ADDED

구마 (guma) - the Korean term for the Catholic Exorcism.

저주 (chaju)- a curse (what happened to Choi Yoon)

Sources:

Shamans, Housewives, and Other Spirits by Laurel Kendall

Illustrated Guide to Korean Mythology by Choi Won Oh

Other random sites I didn’t save. Sorry.

#the guest #ocn the guest #손: the guest #손 #Korean shamanism #korean mythology #Korean drama #ocn #Rituals #Spells #Ghosts #Spirits

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