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dresshistorynerd · 7 months

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I've seen a post you've reblogged and added to, among many things about women showing nipples. Can you recommend any ref material (articles, videos, etc.) are share your knowledge about this? Cause I'm curious about that, as nowadays going out in a shirt without a bra makes you indecent, while in like 90s it was okayish? I wonder how it was in previous centuries.

There is a really cool academic paper about bare breast dresses in 17th century England specifically. I think anyone can read it by creating a free account.

Abby Cox also has a good video about the cleavage during the past 500 years in which she goes through also the nip slip phenomena.

I don't have other sources that specifically focus on this subject, though many sources about specific decades touch on it, but I do have my primary source image collection, so I can sum up the history of the bare nipple.

So my findings from primary source images (I could be wrong and maybe I just haven't found earlier examples) is that the Venetians were the first ones to show the nipple for courtly fashion. At the same time in other places in Europe they sported the early Elizabethan no-boob style that completely covered and flattened the chest. In the other corners of Italy the necklines were also low but less extreme. Venetian kirtle necklines dropped extremely low as early as 1560s and they combined extremely sheer, basically see-through partlets with their kirtle. First example below is a 1565-70 portrait of a Venetian lady with the nipples just barely covered waiting slip into view with a movement of arm. There was an even more extreme version of this with the kirtle being literally underboob style, still with a sheer doublet. Though I believe this was not quite for the respectable ladies, since I have only seen it depicted on high class courtesans. They were not exactly respectable ladies, but they did have quite good social position. The second example is a 1570s depiction of a courtesan, which is revealed by the horned hairstyle. By the end of the century this underbust style with only see through fabric covering breasts, had become respectable. In the last example it's shown on the wife of the Venetian doge in 1597.

Around the same time, at the very end of 1500s, the extremely low cut bodice fashion enters rest of Europe. The low cut style was present in the bodices of all classes, but the nipple was really only an aristocrat thing. The lower classes would cover their breasts with a partlet, that was not sheer. Bare breast was ironically from our perspective a show of innocence, youthful beauty and virtue, and to pull off the style with respect, you also had to embody those ideals. Lower class women were considered inherently vulgar and lacking virtue, so a nipple in their case was seen as indecent. Bare boobs were also a sort of status symbol, since the upper class would hire wet nurses to breastfeed their children so they could show of their youthful boobs.

Covering partlets and bodices were still also used in the first decade of 1600s by nobles and the nip slip was mostly reserved for the courtly events. The first image below is an early example of English extremely low neckline that certainly couldn't contain boobs even with a bit of movement from 1597. The 1610s started around 5 decades of fashion that showed the whole boob. The first three were the most extreme. Here's some highlights: The second image is from 1619.

Here the first, very much showing nipples, from c. 1630. The second from 1632.

The neckline would slowly and slightly rise during the next decades, but nip slips were still expected. Here's an example from 1649 and then from 1650-55. In 1660s the neckline would get still slightly higher and by 1870s it was in a not very slippable hight. The necklines would stay low for the next century, though mostly not in boob showing territory, but we'll get there. But I will say that covering the neckline in casual context was expected. Boobs were mostly for fancy occasions. It was considered vain to show off your boobs when the occasion didn't call for it and covering up during the day was necessary for a respectable lady. You wouldn't want to have tan in your milk-white skin like a poor, and also they didn't have sun screen so burning was a reasonable concern.

1720s to 1740s saw necklines that went to the nip slip territory, though they didn't go quite as low as 100 years earlier. The nipple was present in the French courtly fashion especially and rouging your nipples to enhance them was popular. Émilie Du Châtelet (1706-1749), who was an accomplished physicist and made contributions to Newtonian mechanics, was known in the French court to show off her boobies. An icon. Here she is in 1748. Here's another example from this era from 1728.

The Rococo neckline never got high, but in the middle of the century it was less low till 1770s when it plunged into new lows. In 1770s the fashion reached a saturation point, when everything was the most. This included boobs. The most boob visible. There was a change in the attitudes though. The visible boob was not a scandal, but it was risque, instead of sing of innocent and did cause offense in certain circles. I think it's because of the French revolution values gaining momentum. I talked about this in length in another post, mostly in context of masculinity, but till that point femininity and masculinity had been mostly reserved for the aristocracy. Gender performance was mostly performance of wealth. The revolutionaries constructed new masculinity and femininity, which laid the groundwork for the modern gender, in opposition to the aristocracy and their decadence. The new femininity was decent, moral and motherly, an early version of the Victorian angel of the house. The boob was present in the revolutionary imagery, but in an abstract presentation. I can't say for sure, but I think bare breasts became indecent because it was specifically fashion of the indecent French aristocracy.

Here's example somewhere from the decade and another from 1778. The neckline stayed quite low for the 1780s, but rose to cover the boobs for the 1790s.

The nipple didn't stay hidden for long but made a quick comeback in the Regency evening fashion. It was somewhat scandalous by this point, and the nipple and sheer fabrics of the Regency fashion gained much scorn and satire. The styles that were in the high danger nip slip territory and those that allowed the nipple to show through fabric, were still quite popular. The sleeves had been mid length for two centuries, but in 1790s they had made a split between evening and day wear. The evening sleeves were tiny, just covering the shoulder. Showing that would have been a little too much. Like a bare boob? A risque choice but fine. A shoulder? Straight to the horny jail. (I'm joking they did have sheer sleeves and sometimes portraits with exposed shoulder.) But long sleeves became the standard part of the day wear. Getting sun was still not acceptable for the same reasonable and unreasonable reasons. Day dresses did also usually have higher necklines or were at least worn with a chemisette to cover the neckline. Fine Indian muslin was a huge trend. It was extremely sheer and used in multiple layers to build up some cover. There were claims that a gust of wind would render the ladies practically naked, though because they were wearing their underclothing including a shift, which certainly wasn't made from the very expensive muslin, I'm guessing this was an exaggeration. Especially though in the first decade, short underboob stays were fairly popular, so combined with a muslin, nipples were seen. Here's an early 1798 example of exactly that. The short stays did disappear eventually, but in 1810s the extremely small bodices did provide nip slip opportunities, as seen in this 1811 fashion plate.

Victorian moralizing did fully kill the nip slip, though at least they were gender neutral about it. The male nipple was just as offensive to them. In 1890s, when bodybuilding became a big thing, bodybuilder men were arrested for public indecency for not wearing a shirt.

#there was also the new femininity aspect to regency nipple which had to do with breastfeeding becoming fashionable among upper class #it's about the whole motherly thing that came with the french revolution #i can't remember the book i read it from so i didn't go into it because i couldn't remember the details lol #but it did definitely have an effect to the fashion and to the perception of nipple #historical fashion #fashion history #history #dress history #fashion #answers #painting #fashion plate #renaissance fashion #elizabethan fashion #rococo fashion #baroque fashion #regency fashion #will tumblr prove itself to be again more prudish than elizabethans and label my post as mature content?#remains to be seen

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geezmarty · 9 months

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oh yeah I haven't posted about it here but I'm on bluesky in case that's a thing you care about!

#you can click the image it'll take you there #wheter that'll be my twitter alternative once the site goes down remains to be seen.#brother I have no idea what's gonna happen tomorrow on twitter let alone. I'm tired lol

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emahriel · 10 months

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bg3 will be GOTY and if you don't believe so then that's okay, that's your opinion albeit the wrong one

#em: txt #bg3 #baldur's gate 3 #i feel like the only reason it wouldn't be goty is bc #it's not really gonna be one of those “mainstream” games #truthfully tho #i don't think zelda or ffxvi deserves goty lol - starfield remains to be seen #but...

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mastersoftheair · 1 month

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"Masters of the Air details. Part 6-Bombsight and bombing.

"[...] I was brought in to Masters of the Air to teach actors how to look like they knew what they were doing, and the bombardier work would certainly be important to the series.

"[...] The Norden bombsight was being developed in the 1920’s by Carl Lucas Norden, a Swiss engineer, who worked for the US Navy. He developed this sight (eventually the Mark 15 series for the Navy and the M series for the Army) and the autopilot system that goes along with it. The autopilot was needed as it could fly the aircraft more precisely on the bomb run than the pilot could. Just don’t tell the pilot this!

"The Mk 15 Norden sight was a beautiful hand-built and fit device with an analog computer that would calculate the point in space at which to drop the bombs. The Bombardier would input information to the sight in the form of altitude, air speed and the ballistics of the bomb. On the bomb run he would pick up the target with the crosshairs in the optics and engage a motor drive that would keep the crosshairs synchronized on the target during the approach. On the run he would also make fine adjustments to be sure the crosshair stayed on the target for range and drift. When the sighting angle reached the predetermined dropping angle the sight sent an electrical signal to the intervalometer that would drop the selected bombs at the specified interval.

"The mission order would define what bombs were to be used and what the nose and tail fuses were to be used and their delay settings, if any. The order would also specify the aiming point and the interval to be set in to the intervalometer. This would space the bombs across the ground as desired. Maybe you wanted the bombs dropped quickly, right next to each other, to try and put a hole in the roof of the hardened sub pens. Or maybe you wanted to walk them down a long runway. The intervalometer would be set for your ground speed and how many feet apart you wanted the bombs to hit on the ground.

"If you wanted to drop a string of bombs all down a line, like a runway or a front line, then you would want the center bomb of the stick to hit in the middle so you would adjust the trail plate on the bombsight the right amount to drop the first bomb early and have the center bomb right in the middle. This center bomb spot would be the mean point of impact or MPI.

"When I arrived on set at MoTA they had several nose sections with varying amounts of the bombardier’s equipment and controls. They had one real Norden sight head called the hero sight in the hero fuselage. The hero label was attached to the best props where special or close up filming with lead actors might take place.

"The stabilizer is the lower half of the bombsight and contains the yaw gyro for the autopilot. The bombsight head sits on the stabilizer and pivots to keep pointed at the target.

"The hero sight was sitting on a prop stabilizer, and it needed more accessories and work to look as good as the real sight head. I asked if they had a better stabilizer around and they thought so, but where it was seemed to be uncertain. It was eventually located and cleaned up for mounting in the hero nose. It was still missing some items namely the directional panel and an Automatic Bombing Computer or ABC. The ABC was used on the bomb run so they could perform evasive maneuvers and not have to do the run and drift calculations again. I was told that a Norden Bombsight expert in the UK said that they didn’t use the ABC early in the war, if at all. I had to differ with that opinion as it was most certainly used throughout the early war and almost all the way through. Its use dropped off later in the war if anything.

"The ABC is quite visible on top of the stabilizer so I thought the hero sight should have the ABC not only for authenticity but for eye candy too. I asked my daughter, Sydney, to send out the directional panel and ABC set from our museum’s bombsight back home in California.

"[...] Like with the pilots and their own preference for hand positions on the throttles, the bombardiers were given the options of the two different hand configurations bombardiers often used to adjust the sight on the run. The more uncomfortable two-handed method or the single hand. Which eye to use while looking through the eyepiece was also their own decision as this would have been a preference item as well.

"We also taught them how to look over the sight to pick up the target then transition down to the eye piece and to uncage and adjust the gyro for leveling the optics in case this might be of interest to the directors. We went over the control sequence for the bomb bay doors, bomb select and intervalometer adjustments and the bomb run itself.

"[...] The standard procedure for the bomb run was developed early on by the 8th AF which was to navigate to a point where the bomb run would begin. This was called the Initial Point or IP. From the IP it was either a straight line into the target, or evasive maneuvers along this line to the target.

"At the IP, the bombardier would open the bomb bay doors. This would change the drag and the airspeed accordingly. It was up to the pilot to adjust power to maintaining a specific airspeed and altitude which was critical to accurate bombing. The pilot would also re-trim the aircraft so it would fly hands off at which point he would engage the servos of the autopilot and turn control of the aircraft over to the bombardier. The Bombardier would fly the aircraft through the bombsight and its connection to the autopilot.

"The main bombardier actor, Elliot Warren, portrayed James R. Douglass. Elliot was a quick learn and did a great job. He was a pleasure to work with and I really enjoyed his scenes.

"[...]Props made several Norden sights. Rubber ones and some with more detail. One was set up with squibs to detonate when the sight was shot by the actor with his 45 cal M1911 pistol. They were wired and the squibs went off with the sound of the pistol. It looked pretty good on camera.

"It was AAF policy to try and destroy the bombsight so it would not fall in to enemy hands. Some of the manuals actually discuss what should be done to destroy it. I would hope that the large gyro in the sight head was not spinning at its normal 25,000 RPM when the bullet hit the 2-pound rotor, as I would imagine that it would come apart and potentially send shrapnel back at the guy holding the gun!

"The lighting folks would control the instruments and lights throughout the fuselages, like the bomb bay door open light on the bombardier’s panel. We put in a lag between the bomb door handle operation and the door open light coming on. Not an accurate lag as we obviously will not be filming for the actual 20 seconds or so needed to open the electric bomb bay doors. It was a delight to work with the lighting crew and they did magical work especially with the custom made instrumentation.

"[...] Here is a full-on rant about the Norden so you might want to skip out!

"Keep in mind that this is my own opinion. An American who is discussing the Norden sight. Your mileage may vary.

"Recently there has been, what I call a ‘revisionist historians’ view of the Norden Bombsight. In short, this modern interpretation, pretty much lead by Malcolm Gladwell’s TED Talk on YouTube and his book Bomber Mafia, calls in to question the usefulness of the Norden. Basically, saying it was not effective and some of his followers have even been using the term ‘useless’ recently.

"Just keep a few thoughts of this rant in mind.

"The bomb sighting systems we had going into WWII were based on technology left over from WWI. They were simple sights with wires to sight down. They were meant for aircraft speeds and altitudes from WWI. Now skip ahead to the new bombers flying two to three times as fast and at altitudes up to 30,000 feet instead of 3000 feet.

"An all-new system was needed to solve this new complex bombing problem. Sperry was working on it and Norden, who had left employment at Sperry, started his own effort.

"The Sperry and Norden sights were the leaders of synchronous sights going in to WWII. They both were good sights which were constantly being improved. They had each also developed a highly advanced autopilot that the bombardier used to fly the aircraft on the bomb run.

"These were visual sights, so it was necessary to see the target in order to be effective. Not so easy in Europe all year long. Radar and other methods were coming online to help with all weather bombing but there were many limitations in play.

"Results would certainly vary from target to target, and it was a brand new technology made up of gyros to keep the optics level, a mechanical computer to make the calculations, motors to drive the optics. Lots of parts needed to be able to work at 200 degrees F to 50 below, not to mention the complex autopilot system.

"So, my main question is: If this new technology was so bad then what exactly was it that brought the German war effort to its knees?

"The RAF was going after cities and targets at night and the AAF was trying to hit specific strategic targets like submarine production, aircraft and weapons plants, fuel and machine parts to make the weapons work. The very things the Germans needed to wage war.

"What brought this production essentially to a halt?

"I submit that it was the bombing campaign.

"If it was the bombing campaign, then it was likely the Norden and Sperry sights that made it possible. Mostly the Norden as it was chosen as the primary system and the Sperry S-1 sight was discontinued.

"The invasion of fortress Europe was certainly needed to push the Germans all the way back to Berlin, but I would also submit that these efforts were made easier by the results of the bombing campaign.

"There were certainly mistakes and errors all throughout this campaign as there was a massive learning curve in doing something that had never been accomplished on such a scale before. How to amass hundreds to a thousand plus bombers to rally together to attack a target effectively and then get home. The attrition was unbelievably steep in the early years as so beautifully depicted in Master’s.

"Just how do you get back in that bomber the next day and face near certain death once again like they did. Again, as seen in Master’s. Just a few of the wonderful aspects of this series and the history behind it.

"Having a PR campaign about the weapon that would help win the war, like Harold T. Barth created for Norden, was not such a bad thing. If it rallied the troops and home front to keep up morale, then I think it was a good thing. Just open any wartime magazine and look at the full page ads all throughout. Each ad promoting the companies contribution to winning the war effort. BF Goodrich with their new Rivnut or Seeger Refrigerator building bomb racks and feed chutes for the 50's. It was a nationwide industrial and personal team effort to wage this war against the Axis. Norden was one of them.

"Barth said that the sight could hit a pickle barrel from 20,000 feet. When the press asked if this was true Norden replied ‘sure if you tell me which pickle you want me to hit’. Some folks nowadays are taking this literally and complaining that it really couldn’t hit a specific pickle. No kidding. Say it isn’t so. Those bastards!

"To Mr. Gladwell and his followers, I'll ask again: What was it, in your mind, that allowed all of those bombs to take out the German AND the Japanese war efforts? If it wasn’t Sperry’s S-1 and Norden’s M series bombsights, then just exactly what was it?

"Rant over. Flak vest, with crotch protector, and helmet, on."

#this is easily the longest (due to words) post i've seen from taigh. i'm getting schooled!#masters of the air #hbo war #behind the scenes #history #history isn't enough tho. i feel like i should have an 'engineering' tag bc damn!#long post #elliot warren #james douglass #i added ellipses to skip over more of the 'fluffy' bits related to the acting stuff. and it still remains sooooo long!#i even added a 'keep reading' line break bc of the norden rant...and it's still SOOOOOO LOOOOONG!!#the link is included so anyone can read that if they're so inclined #but i just know some nerds on here wanna read this lol

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wild-aloof-rebel · 1 year

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Favorite Schitt’s Creek cold opens || The M.V.P.

#schitt's creek #schitts creek #david x patrick #david rose #patrick brewer #s5 #the m.v.p.#look! i made a gifset #for the first time in *checks watch* five months #theoretically i guess this will be a series?#but i guess that remains to be seen lol #fave cold opens #rebel made

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mirror-ralsei · 2 months

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i love how mayor holiday is being set up much the same way as king asgore was in undertale. just this leader figure and (probable) antagonist who’s talked about but never seen. dramatic

#if she 1:1 parallels asgore we're unlikely to actually see her until really lategame #but that remains to be seen #though 'try creating a crisis (if you want to see her)' does kinda imply lategame again lol

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peridots-pixiwolf · 1 year

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[Start ID. A digital drawing of Minos Prime from Ultrakill, who's wearing a strapless slit dress and sandals of the same deep purple. He faces towards and slightly to the right of the camera, his head is tilted further right. With one hand he gestures in a vague pointing motion, his arm folded and held close to his body. There is nothing in the background, but bracing himself on one arm, Minos is implied to be leaning against something about the height of a countertop. The background is a blank purplish black, save for three diagonal stripes in the colors of the bisexual flag. End ID]

Shading study that quite literally came to me in a dream two weeks ago, after this post apparently beamed itself into my mind

(also a few edits below the cut! they're very slight but whatever :])

[Start ID. Three different versions of the previous drawing. The first changes the tone of the lighting from blue to pink, and similarly the shading from pink to blue. The second replaces the faint black border with pink, purple and blue, syncing with the stripes in the background. The third combines both these changes. End ID]

#the tags got NERFED so let's try this again.#peridots-art #minos prime ultrakill #ultrakill #ask to tag #organs #...? gore maybe? for the whole ''transparent chest/visible cardiovascular system'' thing. not very detailed/realistic though so #i don't think this has all of the same charm as i usually find in my posts. but i tried my best to make it work so i don't think it matters #also ''not too happy with how this turned out'' is something i've seen tacked onto posts worthy of being preserved in museums #i heard someone say his snakes should be ball pythons. i'm not autistic about snakes so i decided to listen to the masters #i still have seven levels to p-rank before i can meet this guy!! halfway there (lust/greed and 1-3 remaining) i've only had my own copy #of ultrakill for a week and i already have 33 hours in. anyway he's grown on me i think. absolute bi king and only monarch i respect <3 #i think it's interesting how i now define my queerness by being gray-ace and trans when i first only identified with bisexual. it's still #an important part of me even if sometimes i forget. sorry that sounds completely unrelated but it's related to my feelings on this piece #anyway (i wonder how many ''anyway''s i've slapped on so far) i also find it interesting how often people draw him with this body type.#i think it's cool there's variety in how people draw the uk characters. it just kinda feels right here? i know i unfortunately don't draw #fat characters often at all (partially due to being a primarily fandom blog who likes to stick to canon designs. i wouldn't say i have #trouble with drawing a realistic amount of fat even on rather thin people though lol) but i try! also genuinely unsure what counts as like.#fat vs chubby? or whatever? i don't know exactly how the terminology works and a fair amount of minos' bulk is muscle anyway but. yeah 👍#men are pretty in dresses my final message. goodbye

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mirai-desu · 2 months

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I agree with this article 💯, as Rachael New et al. are now undermining the entire premise of the show, and I want to highlight and comment on a few parts of this excellent take:

We're losing a central character whose emotional journey we were invested in and a vital piece of the primary reason we were told to watch Miss Scarlet & The Duke in the first place. Whether you want William and Eliza together romantically or not, the show was always predicated on and grounded in their relationship, and to pretend otherwise is to deny the original premise behind its very existence.

Exactly this. "Miss Scarlet" might be considered more lead than him, but he was still a titular character, and we were invested in his journey as well as hers. Their bond is the foundation of the show. The teenage flashback episode in particular proves this to us--and proves William’s importance to the greater story. But even before that, it's been there all along:

And, honestly, the official description of Season 1 is blunt about what’s happening: “Eliza and The Duke strike up a mismatched, fiery relationship that will crackle and smolder with sexual tension as they team up to solve crime in the murkiest depths of 1880’s London.” So let’s say it as plainly as possible: No one planned to tune in to this new program simply because it promised a crime drama in period dress. The series’ hook, apparent from its first marketing materials, was this unique relationship at the show’s center. The real story of Miss Scarlet and the Duke has always been just that: Miss Scarlet and the Duke.

While RN et al. can dig in their heels and claim that the story has always just been Eliza's, but we know better than that. Since Day 1, the promotion and the interviews all catered towards the UST. As time wore on, Stuart really began championing the romance in earnest, and it was a logical next step. He was not wrong to do so. What was actually happening on screen was heading that way, as part of a beautiful slow burn.

After literally years of dancing around the rarely mentioned but blatantly obvious feelings between them, this season finally pushed their relationship forward. We got a whole flashback episode dedicated to how they first met! There was a kiss! William said the L-word! The genuine forward relationship progress that so many fans had been waiting for was finally happening! [...] What makes this even more painful is that Season 4 finally felt like the show was moving forward, at last, at least where its central relationship was concerned. Yes, William left, but it was for a good reason: to give Eliza the space and opportunity to decide what she wanted from their relationship on her own terms. (That, as the kids say, is growth.) But if he was never coming back, why bother with most of Season 4?

While we know that in part we got some of the romantic moments in S4 due to Stuart's requests, but I think ultimately, RN's reluctance to move things forward with Wiliza is what put Stuart at odds with her, as she likely did not take too kindly to him suggesting his own input (even when he became an EP) and perhaps felt like he was telling her what to do with her own show. And her goal is to keep it stuck in a cynical pattern; one that William wanted to resolve, and one that Stuart had to remove himself from, because RN favors rinsing and repeating, versus actually diving deep into longer character arcs. That's how she think she can keep the "longevity" of her show, or so she thinks.

Because look, I love Eliza. But I realize it's really because of the potential of who she could be. William never returning prolongs her characterization being stuck. She was supposed to spend the year thinking about what changes she needs to make so they could be together. If he never returns, then what's the point? The catalyst for change is gone. William staying on the show should have actually forced her to grow, not kept her stuck. Removing William entirely reinforces the patterns versus ending the cycle. Especially if he is just replaced with a new love interest, who just flirts with Eliza to keep a "will they / won't they angle" that's never moved forward.

Any writer worth their salt would have Eliza grow in interim and have major development upon William return. But that would end the "put them together / pull them apart." Which is not what RN wants, hence why she refused to put them together. She thinks these patterns are what maintains the show vs spending time on actual storytelling. And this is also why I cannot believe the party line, and truly feel that we haven't gotten the whole truth on why Stuart's exiting.

Thinking about the scenes in the flashback episode of William and Henry, and how important they were, it makes me sad that apparently in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter to RN. And it's sad they keep trying to paint it that the two most important people to Eliza were “overshadowing” her all the time.

I fear is that this new retooled version will just ignore and erase the importance that William has had on her life. At least in the S4 finale we saw how his words still affected her, even when he wasn’t there, encouraging to reopen her own agency. But I can’t see them continuing that, when clearly they want to reboot the show without him.

I had been working on my post S4 fanfic before the news of Stuart's departure hit, and I looked back on how I was developing Eliza from where we left off and how I wrote William's return. When I was outlining it, I was thinking about how RN only just barely has touched the surface of Eliza's psyche. I wrote her as torn up about William leaving--and how he left not long after he almost died. Eliza should have grown from the trauma of almost losing him and we seemed to be on that path in the show, with her at his bedside, and having him recover in her home. We could have dived into how the lost of her mother at a young age affected her, and how Henry's death still was painful. At her father's funeral (which mind you, is in the very first episode) she talked about being alone, and William wiped her tears away. And now... Eliza has lost another person close to her. Literally, it's not William's existence stopping Eliza's development--it's RN's lack of talent, I'm afraid. And who knows, maybe that statement that she cannot be developed while he is around is just a cover to explain his exit, as it's clearly not an actual reason.

Likewise with William, in addition to dealing with his feelings for Eliza, there's so much they could done with him leaving Scotland Yard and the trauma he survived. He didn't have to have PTSD, but he's already had a pretty traumatic life and survived so much (which again… why show all that in the flashback if they were ditching his character - Ben, not RN, wrote that episode so maybe that was a sign). But he held onto the identity of being part of the police, because of how he came get that job (i.e. Henry) and get off the street, and they could have explored what would it be like to shift away from that identity. There just was so much potential and so much richness that could have been written, for a man who came from nothing, but wanted to belong, and wanted to be loved. And maybe Stuart was just so very aware that the show was refusing it take it there. He took William as far he was allowed to, but not as far as the character could have gone, if written by the right people.

Frankly, both William and Eliza deserve better. Stuart deserves better, and we the Wiliza fans do as well. Ultimately, regardless of what (and at what point in time it) really went down between Stuart and RN, the series should have ended with S4, but with a happy conclusion. All signs pointed to William joining Eliza at her detective agency, but now we just have to imagine them there, working together as equals and in love.

#this got way longer than I planned but at least read the link if not all my ramblings #miss scarlet and the duke #msatd spoilers #mirai's text posts #(also for those of your on other platforms yes I did borrow some of my own wording elsewhere to share here lol)#edit: I'll add a caveat that they simply could just straight up change Eliza's characterization in S5 - been there seen that.#anyway remains to be seen but not by me bc I'm out

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