#the Discourse of the Evening

[webshood]

not gonna elaborate it rn, but people diminishing Jason's experience with homelessness, malnourishment, childhood abuse and neglect, because he got adopted by a billionaire while also hcning Tim Drake to be abused and starved by his wealthy parents is rooted in racism and classism

#jason todd #dc comics #red hood #batfam #tim drake #don't even get me started on the latino jason/asian tim agenda #fandom discourse

[dunyun-rings]

I saw a post that said “Dragon Age discourse walked so that Baldurs Gate 3 discourse could run” and that’s absolutely false. Dragon Age discourse sprinted, foaming at the mouth, so that BG3 discourse could skip happily through a meadow

#that OP clearly wasn’t in the DA fandom when Inquisition came out lmao #people acted like mages were a real life opressed group #don’t even get me started on the discourse around which romance options were justified and which ones meant you were a bigot/abuser/etc #is Astarion existed in Dragon Age people would literallt never stop fighting about him I can tell u that much

[deadliestpieceontheboard]

I don't think younger/newer users fully grasp the shit show that ace discourse was around 2014-17

It was so hostile that, to this day, discussions that begin to derail just enough can make me physically nauseous, some specific mockery trigger crying sessions years later. We lost most accounts with any sort of ace positivity. There was no information, no support, and all this damage was done predominantly by other queer people.

All this to say that you, however you identify yourself, should be engaging with aphobic comments the same way you do any hate. We don't sugarcoat or try to be comprehensive with people who are blatantly racist, homophobic or terfs, so why give it a pass just because it's coming from a queer person? I see how this tolerance goes and it's done enough damage as it is.

#might delete later #just felt frustrated about how even ourselves interact with hate #i'm all in for helping explain things #but people are way too comfortable qith being ignorant and we let them #ace discourse #aroace #asexuality #ace positivity #aro positivity #aromantism #aromantic

[grendelsmilf]

perpetually annoyed by character criticism that is just “is this character sympathetic? is this character relatable? does this character get an ending they ‘deserve’ (as it correlates with their own moral goodness)?” so what if they’re unsympathetic. so what if they’re unrelatable. so what if they are made suffer. so what if they’re a symbol. they’re not real! fictional characters are tools in a story, like setting, or tropes, or tone, or style, or pacing, or medium. they are a figment, a fragment. they are not human beings, and they do not exist in a real life moral framework. this is not good analysis. ask better questions.

#to be clear im talking abt academics here #not like. fandom discourse #i couldn’t even begin to care what you people have to say in the first place #o #100

[crimson-rain-smoked-flower]

I’m not trying to attack you, but do you know that proshipper means someone who supports and romanticizes pedophilia, incest, and abuse? Your reblog on that post seems to read that you think antis just hate on people for having ships they don’t like. But it’s completely different than that. Just looking on the proshipper side of Tumblr and the internet and you can see people happily shipping children and adults and making nsfw content of such things.

i appreciate that you're not being outright hostile, but i have to say, that on its own put you above basically every anti i've interacted with.

i understand where antis are coming from, i really do. there are a lot of things on the internet that make me deeply uncomfortable, including the minor/adult ships that you mention. i don't want to anything to do with those kinds of ships and i would be happiest if i never saw them again. which is why i'm proship.

nine times out of ten, if i see that kind of ship brought up on my dash, it's because i was following an anti without realizing it, and they brought it up unprompted and untagged, to talk about how bad it is that they exist. they are the ones putting that kind of content in front of my face and making it harder to avoid.

the thing about people who ship those ships is that they're generally very aware that not everyone wants to see that kind of content, and so they tag it. they make sideblogs to talk about it. they don't go out of their way to shove it in people's faces. that means i, and everyone else who doesn't like it, can avoid it.

what antis want is for it to not exist at all. they want the tags to be purged and blocked, and for anyone who uses those tags to have their accounts deleted. and sure, that might get rid of some of it, but do you know what would happen to the rest? it would stop being tagged. people who don't want to see it wouldn't have the tools to avoid it. this isn't just a hypothetical, that's what's happened any time a fan space has tried to do that.

that's not even getting into the rabbit hole of what should be banned and what shouldn't. obviously any content that depicts real children or real life abuse shouldn't exist and shouldn't be allowed to be posted, but basically any platform that people use already enforces those policies, and there's not much of a slippery slope to go down there. if it involves real living breathing people being abused, it's bad. end of discussion.

but the same can't be said for fiction. ask ten antis for a specific list of all the content that should be banned, and you'll get ten different answers. what about kink? what about roleplay? what about horror and murder and anything that involves fictional characters being graphically tortured? what about people using art to process terrible things that have happened to them? what about art that uses dark themes as a horror element? if you just want to ban anything questionable to anyone, that's the line of thinking that gets any mention of lgbt existence banned. and again, this isn't just a hypothetical, this has happened before, and that's generally where it leads.

i know, from personal experience, that antis do, in fact, send harassment to people just for shipping things they don't like. i've gotten accused of absolutely vile shit for shipping two fictional characters who were both consenting adults. i've seen ship wars turn into moral battlegrounds, over ships that an average person wouldn't bat an eye at.

the thing about "romanticization" is a whole other can of worms. the anti logic goes like this: if someone sees something (even if it's very obviously fictional) in a positive light enough times, they will start thinking it's okay in real life, and go on to hurt real people. the problem with that is that it's just. blatantly untrue.

if it were true every horror movie fan would be a serial killer, every person that studies dark media would be an unhinged psychopath, and everyone who is into ddlg would be a pedophile. but they're not. they just aren't. people have directed movies just as fucked up as the darkest shit on ao3, and are still capable of being normal human beings who know right from wrong in real life.

even if someone is that impressionable, scrubbing away the existence of every piece of questionable content isn't going to solve their problem, because they're still going to be vulnerable to con men, scams, and cultists. the only thing that would actually materially help someone like that is developing their own morals and critical thinking.

children are also more impressionable, and there's a lot of content that's not suitable for them, but that doesn't mean that content shouldn't exist. it just means that they should stick to spaces designed for them (which most social media sites, tumblr included, are not) or, if they're old enough to be responsible for their experience online, they, or a trusted adult in their lives, should block and filter out things that they aren't comfortable with.

which is what everyone on the internet should be doing. it's what i do, and it's made the internet a much more pleasant place to be. and it's why i sometimes worry for antis mental health, especially teenagers, because they're being told it's right and moral to seek out content that makes them uncomfortable and to engage with the people making it. and that's just. really bad. it's not good for the creators that they're harassing obviously, but it's also really bad for them! it's not healthy to seek out things that make you feel bad, and it's a terrible internet safety lesson to teach minors that it's okay for them to seek out and engage with people making adult content.

individual harassment and crusading is never going to succeed at removing dark content from the internet. it just isn't. at best you might get a small percentage of people who create that content to stop sharing it, at worst you're just going to make people stop tagging it, and either way, you're exposing yourself to things that make you feel bad, when you don't have to.

if you want to materially change the type of content you see, you can. the block button is your friend, use it liberally. same with content filtering and tag blocking.

#oops this got really long #cd.ask #proship #disk horse #tw pedophila mention #uhhh what to tag #tw shipping discourse #this doesn't even get into the antis that i've seen proudly professing that they care more about fictional characters than real people #because i don't know how to explain to someone that real humans matter more than cartoon characters #or how to avoid content on platforms other than tumblr bc frankly thats a lot of the reason i don't use them #i don't trust an algorithm #also im turning anon off after posting this so if you want to send me hate you cant be a coward about it #also be prepared to get blocked and ignored #the only reason i answered this person is bc they weren't being hostile

[cube-cumb3r]

while im at it neopronoun opposition is weird to me as a swedish person.. the whole debate is so anglocentric that they assume every language landed on the same solution they did, to reuse a plural pronoun as a gender neutral one and then they think any other solution is absurd or unheard of. what do you mean you just made another pronoun up you cant do that!! etc

coz its like here in the 2014 the swedish academy accepted 3rd person pronoun "hen" (as opposed to hon/han) like officially into our word list after it gained some popularity in the 2010s. like that is a NEOPRONOUN that someone just Came Up With in like the 60s and then people just started using it and now its just a recognized part of our language. sure we could've also reused our plural pronoun "de/dem" as a gender neutral one but we just made up a new one instead. and to like imply that mainstream use of a neopronoun is just UNHEARD OF and that neopronouns is something the mainstream could NEVER GET USED TO EVER!!! is... your perspective is very limited to the english speaking world is all i can say

#now like it is pretty cool that the swedish academy did choose to include it in our word list even despite the conteoversy #because ofc there was conteoversy what do yoy MEAN youre CHANHING OUR LANGUAGE???? #but like even if that disnt happen the word still gained lots of traction before that and started being used #like smth doeant have to be accepted by the mainstream nevessairly to be valid anyway #some ppl are happy even if only their friends and loved ones r the ones using their neopronouns #so like. bleh #q-rambl3 #sorry for the many gender rambles these past weeks #i see so much discourse and it irritates me ans TBIS IS MY ONLY OUTLETTTT

[theminecraftbee]

for the record I think the healthiest thing in this fandom is to remember that yeah, the hermits are online, there’s nothing stopping them from name searching themselves and finding basically anything you make, and the only way to stop it is to not post it publicly. (archive locking it on ao3 is also an option to be fair, but there’s nothing stopping them from getting an account!)

however, even the hermits clearly know that when they come to tumblr they are visiting Our House. so continue to be as weird as you want and when they show up you just go “yeah you came to the weird people house you can hit the back button” and keep going. like, as long as you aren’t like… sticking it in their discord or their stream chat or their tts, they’re choosing their level of engagement here, they’re in control of whether they see it, it’s fine. who cares.

all of which is to say: iskall I promise I can get weirder about you,

#discourse #<- SORT OF #anyway I am too tired to even pretend I’m scattering I mostly just don’t care #if they read my fic on stream THEN I panic (Apollo do not interact) #but until then. eh.

[moonyinpisces]

casting michael sheen in a show and not allowing him to have gay sex with the male lead actually violates the geneva convention and is considered a war crime in 196 countries

#at this point the discourse doesn’t even matter. how can we legally stop him #good omens #good omens s2 #ineffable husbands #michael sheen #moonyinpisces

[miindjack]

friendly reminder since discourse is happening and peepaw is tired:

this is okay to reblog. in fact, i highly encourage it.

#[ valor chats ] #joel miller x reader #ellie williams x reader #abby anderson x reader #anyways peepaw is going to bed #y'all are wacky #the block button and tag filtration system exist for a REASON #you can even download xkit for a post block option #tw discourse

[redrocketpanda]

Something that has been driving me insane about the credits are these sections with the fish so please bear with me whilst I do a mini deep dive (hehe) into fish discourse because YO, we need to talk about these fish!

Notice how at the beginning of the credits we actually have two white fish swimming along beside one another; one with bright turquoise eyes and the other with black.

A little while later the fish begin to circle each other and a droplet falls into the water between them. As the disturbance ripples out from the center, one of the fish dives deeper into the water and changes its colour to black; symbolizing Geto's change and descent into darkness

Then we have this heartbreakingly beautiful moment with Gojo and Geto:

I cannot stop thinking about how long Gojo watches the black fish for as it swims across the screen, whereas Geto's eyes are lowered the moment the white fish appears and he closes them as it swims past.

Gojo cannot bear to tear his eyes away, whilst Geto cannot bear to look

Throughout the credits, Gojo and Geto have been making their way towards each other through the pouring rain (or mostly sitting and waiting in Geto's case). At the end, they meet each other under a bridge and as they walk away together we see the fish a final time, swimming together again in a puddle formed by the heavy rain.

Geto walks on the left in the light, as the white fish swims close to his head, almost invisible in the brightness of the light. Whilst Gojo walks on the right in the shadow with the black fish swimming further away but still close by.

The fish speed after the two men before disappearing completely under the water just before the camera pans up and we watch as Gojo pulls Geto in for a hug as they walk away, before he's playfully shoved away by Geto.

There's a lot going on the credits (+ opening) that is absolutely killing me but man, these fish?! Breathtaking.

#just been sitting here for 20 minutes sobbing over fish discourse bc altho they only appear very briefly they are saying SO MUCH #i haven't read the manga so i sadly cannot provide a deep dive stsg analysis so would love to hear other people's thoughts #also apologies as I know some people haven't even had a chance to watch ep 1 yet but i need to scream into the internet about these fkn fis #stsg #satosugu #gojo satoru #geto suguru #gojo #geto #jjk #jjk s2 #jjk s2 ep1 #jjk season 2 #jujutsu kaisen season 2 spoilers #jujutsu kaisen season 2 #jujutsu kaisen

[transmascissues]

i absolutely cannot believe people are trying to start discourse about whether nex benedict was actually nonbinary / whether it was okay for him to describe himself as nonbinary to some people if he didn’t actually identify that way as if he isn’t literally DEAD because he was KILLED. this is a MURDERED CHILD and these monsters are so busy getting mad at the possibility that he might have been a trans boy who described himself as nonbinary to his family because that was easier for them to take that they’re turning a CHILD who was MURDERED into fucking discourse. even when we die at the hands of cis people’s violence, our own community finds a way to make us the villains of the story.

and all of this bullshit on top of the ways that cis people are already trying to say our grief over his death is unjustified. all of this on top of people claiming he wasn’t murdered and speculating on other causes of death (i literally saw someone say he “clearly went home and took the coward’s way out” and i have never been more disgusted) or claiming that he started the fight as if any action on his part could’ve been enough to justify his death. i am haunted by the sound of his father screaming that his child was not filth because that is what people have been saying about this poor kid, that’s how cruelly his memory is being treated, and even the trans community can’t get it’s shit together enough to look past the stupid discourse and see the tragedy in front of us. did you all forget that it was supposed to be up to us to grieve him in the way he deserves when the rest of the world fails to care if people like him live or die? did you all forget that this child was our sibling, the future of our community, a life that we should have had the chance to know and treasure while he was still here but that we now have a responsibility to hold close to our hearts in his absence? nex’s life was precious and it was ended far too soon and if you truly believe that anything is more important than mourning his life and fighting for a world where no more trans people have to meet such an awful fate, you’re a traitor to this community and you do not deserve the place you occupy within it.

i’m so tired. i can’t even imagine how tired his family must be, to see the public treat the child they’re grieving so horribly, to see the world fail their baby again. leave him alone. he was already robbed of peace in life; the least you can do is let him finally have it in death.

#as a trans man whose family still uses they/them and neutral terms for me and would describe me as nonbinary #because that was how i initially came out to them and me being a man is a much bigger hurdle than i have the energy to help them get over #it’s SO deeply disturbing to know that if my life ended in violence #my own community would be more concerned with how my family referred to me in death than with the fact that i was killed #how fucking dare you turn this poor child’s existence into discourse fodder when they aren’t even here to defend themselves #when you only even know who he is in the first place because he was killed #tw transphobic violence #nex benedict #tbh it feels wrong to even add my usual tags to this but i need people to see it so. here we go #transandrophobia #transandromisia #transmisandry #virilmisia #virilphobia #anti transmasculinity #transmascphobia #exorsexism #trans men #transmascs

[whatthehickheck]

they are peak alt enby and their bf who’s just some guy representation

#ngl I loved their dynamic even tho some thought it was ooc #also happy there’s no discourse (for now) over whether this is a queer ship (it is) #bc if this was a real couple at pride you know there would be hella discourse #good omens #good omens 2 #good omens s2 #good omens season 2 #good omens spoilers #good omens season 2 spoilers #ineffable bureaucracy #go beelzebub #go gabriel

[terrible-leviathan]

Apology so bad it's basically the avengers endgame of cc's shitting on you

#i don't even know how to tag this #discourse #wilbur soot

[userjoel]

CLOSE COLLABS with TOM HOLLAND

#tom holland #andrew garfield #tobey maguire #spider-man #thollandedit #marvelcastedit #marveledit #fyeahspiderman #chewieblog #userbbelcher #* #spideycentral #mcufam #HE'S SO INSUFFERABLEKSJKDSF #/j #i didn't even know this was an ongoing discourse tbh #also i apologize for the coloring #the lighting in this video was not that great and i simply did not bother to fix it

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

Is anyone gonna explain to people that ‘proship’ does not actually mean ‘problematic shipping’ or ‘problematic ship’ or are we just going to let this misinformation spread some more?

It means pro-shipping. The prefix pro, meaning ‘supporting.’ In favor of shipping.

It only became a defined position after anti-shippers who initially identified themselves as anti-a specific ship started harassing creators they didn’t like, doxxing them, and trying to get them fired from their irl jobs for shipping reasons around 2014-2016.

So people who had been in fandom for long enough to know where that kind of rhetoric leads (ffnet purges, LJ strikethru, as well as the direct harms caused by doxxing) observed this increasing trend of harassment and rallied to say ‘oh you lot are anti-shipping, as in opposed to certain ships? Well in that case, we are pro-shipping, because we follow the adage of ship and let ship.’

Before that point, it was just basic fandom etiquette to not bother people who ship stuff you don’t like, and to understand that if something squicks you out, it’s not the fault of the people who made it.

If someone says they are pro-ship, it means fuck all about what they actually enjoy in fiction.

It just means they’re opposed to harassing creators for making content that doesn’t cause tangible harm to real people. A better way to understand the ideological position is being anti-harassment and anti-censorship.

I have a lot of ships I find disgusting blacklisted so I don’t have to see them. But I am not interested in forcing people to comply with what I think is gross. That’s what it means.

Curate your online experience, and understand that your disgust response is not a defensible moral indicator or a justification to harass, deplatform, and dox fan writers.

#this is gonna get me blocked by even more idiots but who cares #I just keep seeing this bullshit so here I am with yet another rant on the topic #fandom discourse #shipping discourse #ship and let ship #kinktomato #anti anti #proship #pro fiction #fandom #Caitie speaks

[springtrappd]

marta svetek -- voice of gregory, vanny, roxanne wolf in fnaf: sb and its dlc, ruin -- has joined kellen goff in voicing her thoughts on ai reproductions of her voice. again: if you want voice actors to maintain a living wage (and their own mental health), please respect her wishes and ensure that this kind of behaviour is heavily discouraged in the future.

full text of thread below the cut for brevity:

Been getting tagged in all kinds of posts and popular TikToks of people using AI voice clones of my FNAF characters to have them sing or say all kinds of random stuff. You might think it's fun. But really it's contributing to the problem all VAs are facing in the wake of AI. The more these AI voice clones get used, the more they're normalized, and the more businesses see it as a viable alternative to real VAs when making content for you. Slowly but surely, most of your favourite VAs will be out of work. Not to mention what this will cost in terms of future generations of VAs. Incredible performances we'll never get to experience because most businesses will more often than not go for the cheapest, quickest option as soon as the technology is up to scratch. This is made even worse by the fact that we currently have very few legal protections against the unauthorized use of our voices using AI. And we're being pressured to waive those too, for a fraction of their worth. This is one of the big reasons the current strikes are a thing. If you enjoyed my work in FNAF and have any respect for the amount of time and effort VAs put into bringing characters to life, don't use AI voice clones in your fanart. I can't express how violated I feel every time I hear my voice say words that aren't my own. And just in case it wasn't clear - I have never consented to having my voice, likeness or any of my performances synthesized into AI voices/avatars etc.

#fnaf #five nights at freddy's #roxanne wolf #fnaf gregory #fnaf roxy #vanny #discourse #speaking! #no your funnie tiktoks and fangames #are not worth violating the bodies of other human beings #no not even if you're broke. #ch/rist alive guys. #vas are human beings who deserve basic respect #as well as the ability to freely live their life #and create their art #support workers. support artists. support strikes. #your actions have consequences. let them be good ones.