After talking at length to someone about why they should watch Trials and Tribble-ations (1998), I found this hilarious video that has the bar fight side-by-side comparison with Trouble with Tribbles (1967).
Such a perfect episode. Al these years the tech still looks amazing. Incredible.
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btw, any update on shiver's japanese personal pronouns now that the full game is out? theres a tweet going around saying she uses both uchi and onore and that it's a feminine+masculine combo, i wanted to double check and see if that is actually the case or if onore is a common pronoun for women to use? people are getting really militant abt this for no reason (unsurprisingly)
I think I've seen that tweet, yeah, and it's wrong.
So to start this off so everyone knows what’s up: I’m a native Japanese speaker, and I’m nonbinary myself. I’m approaching this topic as someone who WOULD LOVE to have canon, intended, Cisn’t rep here.
However, the situation in regards to Shiver is just a misunderstanding of the... complexities and nuance (?) that comes with the myriad of ways people can refer to themself in Japanese, and there’s actually nothing being censored by NoA when they confirmed that she is intended to be female. As of me writing this (September 17th 2022), there has been no content in the Japanese dialogue that ever suggests that Shiver might be intended to be nonbinary or otherwise some flavor of Not Female.
Before I even get into pronouns I gotta point out that her Japanese name is Fuuka, which is a regular ass girl's name in real life (albeit it's also being used as a shark pun). I think that if they were going to put a canon nonbinary character in Splatoon they're going to be more obvious about it.
Anyhow, with regards to The Question: the instance that Shiver uses "onore" is actually in the Rock Paper Scissors splatfest dialogue, right here:
おのれの魂をコブシに宿し、天につき出すその姿... 勝者のポーズゆうたらコレや!
I always have a hard time doing my own translations because my brain gets caught up on a million different things, but one way I'd write this to try to get across how she's using "onore" as is this:
"Placing one’s soul into one’s fist, raising it towards the heavens... That's the pose of victory!"
It's true that "Onore" has seen some historical use as a personal pronoun, but it's an archaic kind of usage in standard Japanese. It's not actually necessarily masculine either. Now, it does still see relatively common usage in various dialects in western regions, but mostly in the second person. I don't think I've ever heard "Onore" being used as a personal pronoun in the way you'd use stuff like "Watashi" or "Boku" (which is the kind of usage it's being confused with in that tweet) these days, even when writing fictional character dialogue.
That's irrelevant here, however, because that's not how it's being used here! It's being used to refer to a generalized "self" for theatrical effect, and not even as a personal identifier really. I'd say in this case a similar comparison in English would be "oneself" - kinda formal, depending on how you use it it might also be including the speaker, but not explicitly Just The Speaker. Does that make sense?
The like... connotations and perceptions surrounding how one chooses to refer to themself in Japanese is really complicated and context dependent and I DO understand how it might be easy to get confused! I can also see how people learning Japanese as a second language might have extra trouble with Shiver's dialogue in general since she speaks in the Kyoto dialect instead of standard Japanese. Shit's hard! Anyways unfortunately this has been once again a misunderstanding sorry everyone. We can do other things in headcanons, but we can't be going after people or the translators for this.
...
On the subject of personal pronouns though FRYE uses "washi" which has been fun because that is not something typically used by young people! In dialects where it's still common for young people to use "Washi", it tends to be more commonly used by guys, but the more common association is with Old People. Frye in general just speaks like a stereotypical Old Person though I love her she's great. Where's the fucking Frye crowd at
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Thanks for saying the bit about butch being identity more than presentation. I'm aware it is, like I'm not dumb, but I never feel like I show the fact that I'm butch enough, even if I'm soft butch. Like wearing androgynous clothes means fuck all in modern day since women's fashion is androgynous at a base line currently, plus I have very long hair and tend to keep my nails somewhat long so my identity doesn't show at all and it makes me constantly feel like I'm appropriating the label. But like if I were cis, I'd probably take testosterone for a bit like she/her Lea did; that idea is super enticing. As is I like being trans because it gives some masculinity to my physicality. If it were the past where women wore dresses, I'd definitely wear men's clothes (probably mixed with some parts of women's stuff). Just modern day doesn't let me visibly defy social norms as much as I want. My leather jacket and boots just isn't enough to show my identity.
Sorry for the ranble. Just made me feel way better, seeing confirmation that it's largely identity. Even if I don't have anyone to truly express it with.
you're welcome!
it was definitely something i had to unlearn; especially now with so much of lesbian bar culture having been pushed out and forgotten, a lot of younger people just.. don't know what these words mean, and when i was their age, butch and lesbian both were Bad Words that you never said at all except to demean someone.
reading older lesbian literature helped me overcome that and learning about all of the people that came before us; both about butches and femmes. digging through archives and putting myself into butch/femme spaces online has been hugely beneficial to me. i used to feel the same & like i could never "claim the label" because i didn't look a certain way, but that's just simply not true.
and this is especially not true for lesbians and other women who are already having other labels forced upon them by society; for not being white, for not being skinny, for not being hyper feminine, for not being cis, etc.
one of the things that made it really click for me was picture archives, specifically these kinds of pictures:
(pride, nyc, 1977 by meryl meisler)
this one is nancy tucker & her partner, and the two of them would switch shirts throughout the march. (1970 by kay tobin lahusen)
you can see how similar butches and femmes can look, and this is also what i mean when i say femmes are just as sanitized in popular media. butch and femme can be adjectives, but they are also nouns, they are genders and they are roles that people fill within lesbian relationships and within their community; how they move through the world, interact with society and how they interact with other lesbians and other women romantically and sexually.
this quote is one of my favorites:
“Butch is a trickster gender—and so, in a similar way, is femme. Lesbian gender expressions do not emulate heteropatriarchy, they subvert it. Femme removes femininity from the discursive shadow of masculinity and thereby strips from it any connotation of subordination or inferiority. Butch takes markers of “masculinity” and divests them of their association with maleness or manhood. Butchness works against the gender binary—the masculine/feminine paradigm—and reclaims for women the full breadth of possibilities when it comes to gender expression.”
— Caroline Narby, “On My Butchness”
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And the thing is GRRM is right. Outside Tumblr which is dominated by culturally Christians, tradwives and tradfems, NO ONE stan Alicent.
George is often right about his statements on characters and their popularity, people just ignore it because they refuse to look at things outside of a fandom lens. Fandom spaces are NOT representative of the general audience and yet people think their echo chambers are all the proof they need. I don't think it's that no one outside of fandom likes her, it's just that the ideas that make her popular in fandom just...don't exist for general audiences. No one is casually watching the show going "Oh Alicent is a feminine woman who has no power to do anything at all so she deserves everything", they dislike how inconsistent and hypocritical she is. They don't treat her like the ultimate victim who shouldn't be judged and rightfully so cause that's actually an insane way of viewing media. And even her stans don't believe it, it's just rhetoric they came up with and use to prop her up.
The thing is that George is very aware of the content and characters he's written and that's something that makes him so entertaining as an author. He has no problem going against the popular and loud fandom ideas and a majority of the time, he's right. I hope he continues to ignore the painfully "fandom" debates surrounding his writing.
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