francisbaconguy

[francisbaconguy]

I’m definitely interested to hear about the process you had working with Hanna Barbera on the Grim Adventures pilot? What was it like being amongs the great Bill Hanna and Joe Barbera and did they give you thoughts on the pilot itself?

Good Morning Tumblroids,

I’m still working out the specifics of my future indie project attempt. Jellystone is over for now, but I’m still pitching shows on the mean streets of Burbank and I’ve got a lot of new software to cram before I’m ready. In the meantime, I think I’m overdue to break the seal and breathe some life back into my mummified YouTube channel.

Maybe I’m just looking for a cheap excuse for a party, but I think I’m going to start off with a “Billy & Mandy Reunion”. As I’m imagining it, it’s part documentary and part Bravo reunion special. But probably with less punching and swearing(?). 

From the unusual pitch to the moment it was voted into existence by the fans, through multiple cancellations and resurrections, all the way to its final meeting with the reaper, Billy & Mandy has had a journey unique in the animation world. My goal is to get the whole gang back together and talk about how the sausage is and was made.

Before I embark with you on this trip through the potholes down Memory Lane, though, I wanted to check in with you all and hear what you had to say. In the reunion, we’ll be talking about Billy & Mandy as a project, specific episodes, all of the parts of the animation process, how things were done in the 2000s vs how they’re done now, and the animation industry in general. I’m looking for your thoughts and questions about any of that stuff. Or (really) anything you want to know about the show.

Whether it’s a statement about a character that's had an impact on your life or a question about the minutiae of storyboarding, I’d love to hear from you. If you want your question to be credited, add your preferred name to your comment. I don’t think I’ll have time to get to them all (and there are bound to be plenty of repeat questions) so please don’t get mad at me if yours doesn’t get chosen or gets attributed to someone else. There’s only a five-to-seven percent chance that I’ve done it maliciously.

I’m going to talk to the actors, of course, but I’m going to try to get as many people back as I can. Storyboard artists, writers, production staff, directors, timers, designers– The Whole Tamale Platter. If you’re interested in a particular facet of TV Animation, this would be a good chance to hear from someone who’s been there.

I like nachos, -Maxwell Atoms

[francisbaconguy]

To anyone who wants to commission VivziePop for a full scale drawing according to this tweet: https://twitter.com/VivziePop/status/1261016646853902336

My advice: STOP AT ONCE!!!!

DO NOT!!! I REPEAT, DO NOT DO IT!!!! STAY AWAY FROM THAT TRASH OF A POST!!! Your just going to end up getting your money stolen for years on end! Why? Because Viv is not mature enough to handle it! She is not READY AND NEVER WILL BE!!!!

Viv, your fans aren’t your damn welfare check! It’s not there responsibility to clean up after your shit! It’s called a JOB!!! A job that you don’t hand! Being a producer and showrunner is a career only for professionals who are responsible and can actually do proper management!

If you want to pay a bill, get off your ass and work for it! Do freelance, an office job, even a yard sale! But WORK!

Don’t sit back on your ass and use their money to pay people to do cartoons for you!

If you want to animate too for your cartoons, be my guest! But there’s gotta be some money coming from that too!

A problem with Viv is that she makes a lot of hollow promises and tries to bite off more than she can chew. She wants to make Hazbin a reality, wants to make a Helluva series, wants to animate Zoophobia, Tinder, a series of comics; but she can’t get off her lazy ass to even work on these commissions.

If you ask me, she shouldn’t have done them; PERIOD!

Because they are a huge responsibility and God knows how many she has taken. And Patreons also have to get a fucking’ speedraw with their purchase. A FUCKING SPEEDRAW!!! Her priority should’ve went to the Patreons and Patreons alone because it’s all done on a monthly basis and God knows how much money stashed was given to her.

For the production or no, that’s still a lot of bacon they gave. Not to mention that merch sales are also padded to the pile for budget, even if contributors have been given a cut.

Viv is just not good with managing money from the looks of it. I have half the mind to believe that some portions of the commission money also pile to the budget too. And maybe it would’ve been wise for her to actually make a decent and appropriate budget and work within the limitations (such as animating yourself or maybe heaven forbid; cut corners like rigging) instead of overly-expensive stuff like using a union voice record for Helluva Boss and getting big time people like Parry Gripp and Weird Al Yankovic involved.

I compare Viv’s strategy between two artists that she worked with; Nico Colaleo and Maxwell Atoms; one whom was more strategical and one that had a complete flop.

Nico was the creator of Ollie and Scoops (Viv voiced in the show). He did everything he was suppose to do before tackling on a big production he created. He pitched it first, worked on his own show for Dreamworks, and was able to build connections, save a bundle by STILL WORKING (Netflix) and was able to assemble a crew that were far more into consistency and expressive than Hazbin. And that show is gonna get a hell lot of celebrities; I’m talking Matilda from the movie, Angry Video Game Nerd and Kevin “Batman” Conroy. I’m shocked Weird Al turned the show down. Could’ve had potential.

Maxwell created Billy and Mandy and had a film that he Kickstarted called Dead Meat (Viv volunteered for it). Maxwell did not do his research and while he made a great working environment and a unique concept, had to spend a large portion of the budget on the actors alone because it was union, and he didn’t do his paperwork / research correctly which makes him legally unable to complete it without making major changes that would’ve made the project different. Most of what he can do is figure out a way to properly refund the backers because it has been 10 years. At least he learned from his mistakes and had to officially explain it instead of hiding like a coward.

What does this have to do with commissions? Because not only do I sense that the commission money is going to clean up any messes she made for production, but I also think that it’s a primary example of her falling into a flop category as Maxwell is.

I fear that people who commission with Viv are just gonna end up with no money in their pocket while Viv tries to find someone who can clean up her spilled milk.

Also, I saw a lot of posts saying that animators at Hazbin aren’t paid at all or paid enough. Most of their justifications come from using Viv’s Patreon goal of “full time paid” or Animator Guilds’ union rates to justify the claim. I will say that unless someone who literally worked for Viv immediately justifies the claim, I wouldn’t listen to it.

Rates are gonna vary from studio to studio, artist to artist, job to job; there’s no such thing as a set pay-rate. Some are paid hourly, some are paid bi weekly or weekly, some follow a “per second” / “per minute” guideline. Pencilmation, Skynamic Studios, Hobbykids and most indie productions follow the same guideline, which is a good tactic to get cheap and fair work while dangling the creative freedom carrot around. From what’s to speculate and from people who work on productions similar to Viv, her productions pay a “per second” system.

Again, rates and numbers are gonna vary from duty and artist but that’s the same system used in many independent productions. Is it common? Yes. Is it the same benefit as union rates? No. But it doesn’t necessarily support the not paying enough theory when you don’t even know the living conditions of said artists who work for Viv in the first place. For all you know, Viv’s job saved their unemployment.

However that doesn’t mean not all artists were comfortable working with Viv. There was a voice actor who was initially gonna sing as one of the main characters in one of Viv’s projects but was mysteriously replaced without his knowledge. According to him, working with Viv was stressful. Another storyboard artist was annoyed drawing her characters and was wanted to get the “damn” thing over with because they were awful. This shows that Viv can’t please everyone she works with.

All of this attributes on how Viv wants to overdo her creative urges by creating MORE and MORE. It’s okay to create outlets of materials such as cartoons and comics to keep your creativity alive, but doing too much will burn you out, which is what happened to her. She burns out too much which makes her unable to complete what she owed.

Hence why I say; DO NOT COMMISSION HER AGAIN!!! LET VIV FEND FOR HERSELF! LET HER USE HER CREATIVE VIBE ON ACTUAL WORK TO GET PAID! LET HER WORK HER ASS OFF!!!

If you wanna do it out of her own free will, go ahead. But I will advise to think it through. If you let her goat you to donate, what would you possibly have to gain from it? What’s in it for you; for the long year wait of a simple drawing?

Which btw, has a lot of questioning onto the price. While some artists do have high prices worth for their time, her room for improvement on her own artwork (anatomy, perspective) mixed with her inability to make deadlines kinda makes the price skeptical to worth that large amount.

So again, those who donate, what’s in it for you?

And if you want to donate just for the sake of the art, Don’t. Just don’t. Save your money and let her earn hers. She will be fine financially working on her own.

UPDATE: It came to my attention that Hazbin has officially been picked up for a TV show deal. Well I’m proud of Viv for making her dream a reality. However, unless I see an update on Viv on how she wants to handle the process of commissions owed or were in the Patreon, this post is still staying up. But now that she’s gonna be playing in the big leagues, please don’t commission her until she cleans up her mess. It’s better for her sake and yours!

[francisbaconguy]

Actually, she wanted Millie to have a different actress from the get-go. Erica Lindbeck was initially suppose to be Loona alone. But she didn’t have enough money for more people. SAG is expensive; yet it does have some benefits, such as a maximum of 3 character voices per actor are permitted for the initial session rate (more than 3 will cost extra). Using that knowledge, she casted Erica as Millie.

Now that Helluva has more money, she was able to book A-list talent and got the actress she wanted for Millie. But she still used the ability of having actors play multiple characters for cost efficiency. Let’s not forget; Rick Horvitz was the dunce kid in episode 1, and Rogers voices Loopty Goopty in the Cherub episode.

I guess that she believes she didn’t really count for that rule since she’s not an established voice actress and is the content creator. And like you said, it is the norm for content creators to do voices in their work so I think that rule shouldn’t be too deep in terms of the creator herself participating; especially if her characters are one-off.

So I noticed thanks to floralkittygamer that Viv voiced three charas in the latest episode but she’s stated multiple times that she doesn’t want VAs doubling in her series but here she is VA doubling herself! Pretty hypocritical don’t you think?

It does seem very hypocritical, but I'll play Vivzie's advocate for a sec and try to explain her reasoning.

She likely chose to split the roles of Millie and Loona because they're both major characters, so she didn't want a VA "doubling up" on them because they have a lot of lines and she wants them to be distinctive. I also think she wanted to include more diversity in her cast, hence why she gave Millie to a different actress.

Vivzie has voiced three characters total so far (that I know of), all of which are likely to be minor/only occasionally recurring. Vivzie's only credited for the characters Keenie and Deerie in the credits for episode 4, so she did two characters, not three. She was also the check-out lady in episode 1.

I will say it is very common for creators to voice random one-off characters, or even multiple major characters (Alex Hirsch, Gravity Falls; Justin Roiland, Rick and Morty) but for Vivzie to say she doesn't like VAs doing more than one character (which is very common in the industry) and then go on to do multiple characters herself is pretty funny. I guess she didn't really think that one through, huh.

[francisbaconguy]

To anyone who wants to commission VivziePop for a full scale drawing according to this tweet: https://twitter.com/VivziePop/status/1261016646853902336

My advice: STOP AT ONCE!!!!

DO NOT!!! I REPEAT, DO NOT DO IT!!!! STAY AWAY FROM THAT TRASH OF A POST!!! Your just going to end up getting your money stolen for years on end! Why? Because Viv is not mature enough to handle it! She is not READY AND NEVER WILL BE!!!!

Viv, your fans aren’t your damn welfare check! It’s not there responsibility to clean up after your shit! It’s called a JOB!!! A job that you don’t hand! Being a producer and showrunner is a career only for professionals who are responsible and can actually do proper management!

If you want to pay a bill, get off your ass and work for it! Do freelance, an office job, even a yard sale! But WORK!

Don’t sit back on your ass and use their money to pay people to do cartoons for you!

If you want to animate too for your cartoons, be my guest! But there’s gotta be some money coming from that too!

A problem with Viv is that she makes a lot of hollow promises and tries to bite off more than she can chew. She wants to make Hazbin a reality, wants to make a Helluva series, wants to animate Zoophobia, Tinder, a series of comics; but she can’t get off her lazy ass to even work on these commissions.

If you ask me, she shouldn’t have done them; PERIOD!

Because they are a huge responsibility and God knows how many she has taken. And Patreons also have to get a fucking’ speedraw with their purchase. A FUCKING SPEEDRAW!!! Her priority should’ve went to the Patreons and Patreons alone because it’s all done on a monthly basis and God knows how much money stashed was given to her.

For the production or no, that’s still a lot of bacon they gave. Not to mention that merch sales are also padded to the pile for budget, even if contributors have been given a cut.

Viv is just not good with managing money from the looks of it. I have half the mind to believe that some portions of the commission money also pile to the budget too. And maybe it would’ve been wise for her to actually make a decent and appropriate budget and work within the limitations (such as animating yourself or maybe heaven forbid; cut corners like rigging) instead of overly-expensive stuff like using a union voice record for Helluva Boss and getting big time people like Parry Gripp and Weird Al Yankovic involved.

I compare Viv’s strategy between two artists that she worked with; Nico Colaleo and Maxwell Atoms; one whom was more strategical and one that had a complete flop.

Nico was the creator of Ollie and Scoops (Viv voiced in the show). He did everything he was suppose to do before tackling on a big production he created. He pitched it first, worked on his own show for Dreamworks, and was able to build connections, save a bundle by STILL WORKING (Netflix) and was able to assemble a crew that were far more into consistency and expressive than Hazbin. And that show is gonna get a hell lot of celebrities; I’m talking Matilda from the movie, Angry Video Game Nerd and Kevin “Batman” Conroy. I’m shocked Weird Al turned the show down. Could’ve had potential.

Maxwell created Billy and Mandy and had a film that he Kickstarted called Dead Meat (Viv volunteered for it). Maxwell did not do his research and while he made a great working environment and a unique concept, had to spend a large portion of the budget on the actors alone because it was union, and he didn’t do his paperwork / research correctly which makes him legally unable to complete it without making major changes that would’ve made the project different. Most of what he can do is figure out a way to properly refund the backers because it has been 10 years. At least he learned from his mistakes and had to officially explain it instead of hiding like a coward.

What does this have to do with commissions? Because not only do I sense that the commission money is going to clean up any messes she made for production, but I also think that it’s a primary example of her falling into a flop category as Maxwell is.

I fear that people who commission with Viv are just gonna end up with no money in their pocket while Viv tries to find someone who can clean up her spilled milk.

Also, I saw a lot of posts saying that animators at Hazbin aren’t paid at all or paid enough. Most of their justifications come from using Viv’s Patreon goal of “full time paid” or Animator Guilds’ union rates to justify the claim. I will say that unless someone who literally worked for Viv immediately justifies the claim, I wouldn’t listen to it.

Rates are gonna vary from studio to studio, artist to artist, job to job; there’s no such thing as a set pay-rate. Some are paid hourly, some are paid bi weekly or weekly, some follow a “per second” / “per minute” guideline. Pencilmation, Skynamic Studios, Hobbykids and most indie productions follow the same guideline, which is a good tactic to get cheap and fair work while dangling the creative freedom carrot around. From what’s to speculate and from people who work on productions similar to Viv, her productions pay a “per second” system.

Again, rates and numbers are gonna vary from duty and artist but that’s the same system used in many independent productions. Is it common? Yes. Is it the same benefit as union rates? No. But it doesn’t necessarily support the not paying enough theory when you don’t even know the living conditions of said artists who work for Viv in the first place. For all you know, Viv’s job saved their unemployment.

However that doesn’t mean not all artists were comfortable working with Viv. There was a voice actor who was initially gonna sing as one of the main characters in one of Viv’s projects but was mysteriously replaced without his knowledge. According to him, working with Viv was stressful. Another storyboard artist was annoyed drawing her characters and was wanted to get the “damn” thing over with because they were awful. This shows that Viv can’t please everyone she works with.

All of this attributes on how Viv wants to overdo her creative urges by creating MORE and MORE. It’s okay to create outlets of materials such as cartoons and comics to keep your creativity alive, but doing too much will burn you out, which is what happened to her. She burns out too much which makes her unable to complete what she owed.

Hence why I say; DO NOT COMMISSION HER AGAIN!!! LET VIV FEND FOR HERSELF! LET HER USE HER CREATIVE VIBE ON ACTUAL WORK TO GET PAID! LET HER WORK HER ASS OFF!!!

If you wanna do it out of her own free will, go ahead. But I will advise to think it through. If you let her goat you to donate, what would you possibly have to gain from it? What’s in it for you; for the long year wait of a simple drawing?

Which btw, has a lot of questioning onto the price. While some artists do have high prices worth for their time, her room for improvement on her own artwork (anatomy, perspective) mixed with her inability to make deadlines kinda makes the price skeptical to worth that large amount.

So again, those who donate, what’s in it for you?

And if you want to donate just for the sake of the art, Don’t. Just don’t. Save your money and let her earn hers. She will be fine financially working on her own.

UPDATE: It came to my attention that Hazbin has officially been picked up for a TV show deal. Well I’m proud of Viv for making her dream a reality. However, unless I see an update on Viv on how she wants to handle the process of commissions owed or were in the Patreon, this post is still staying up. But now that she’s gonna be playing in the big leagues, please don’t commission her until she cleans up her mess. It’s better for her sake and yours!

#vivziepop

[francisbaconguy]

Hey Vivziepop, I fixed your drawings!

#vivziepop #vivienne medrano #helluva boss #octavia #via #weird al yankovic #weird al #pitch #cartoons #funny #weird #hazbin hote #holidaze #spindlehorse #dollcreep #chris niosi #kendraw cooks