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kradogsrats · 16 hours
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for the record, Nyx has a hyphenated three-part single name, not a forename and surname, so the only other "characters" in the setting that I can think of with surnames are Delilah Giehl (an elf, btw) and Sir Phineas Kirst, which whatever
Skall can stay at that level of lore-relevant thanks, because to be extremely mean about it, the instant an adventuring woman is named "Esmeralda" my interest level drops like 95%
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kradogsrats · 16 hours
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can we talk about how this absolutely FUCKS the entire societal lore by giving one rando a last name when LITERALLY NO ONE ELSE has one
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Lore on Captain Skall!
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kradogsrats · 17 hours
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i'm a "callum and rayla get engaged within a year of the war being over aka on callum's next birthday (and that's them having restraint)" type of person
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kradogsrats · 1 day
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I’ll kick anyone’s ass. I’ll kick Opeli’s ass. I’ll kick Harrow’s ass. I’ll kick my own ass
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kradogsrats · 2 days
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theory: the Celestial elves created the Frozen Sea (as in froze it with Sky magic) to keep anyone from finding the Starscraper
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kradogsrats · 2 days
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She thinks I'm cute!
Amaya and Janai from The Dragon Prince
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kradogsrats · 2 days
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gotta say: of all the possible crossovers I would ever have imagined they could do, The Terror was definitely not on the list
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kradogsrats · 2 days
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The Frozen Sea, or possibly Skall's Hook, let's gooooooooo
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kradogsrats · 2 days
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I want one thing from the remainder of this series post-s5 and it’s for Rayla to have reduced/lost her fear of water and Claudia to have developed one
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kradogsrats · 2 days
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I was looking these up because I couldn't remember what the mushroom one said, and realized that this:
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is probably referring to them approaching the prison location underwater.
That would put pretty much everything as either having been seen in s5, being something we know happens in s6e1, or something that has a high likelihood of being within the first couple s6 episodes ("Janai/Karim speech" and "Z & Z heart-to-heart").
anyway who wants to open bets on whether "giant hat" is Hat the baitling or an actual hat
Out of Context SDCC 2021 spoiler cards we (presumably) haven't seen so far, featuring 10/23. Ones we have seen linked here
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Ones that are too general to know for sure:
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* For "it's a monster" I could easily see this being attributed to Viren's fever dreams with Soren's reaction to his corrupted face, but again, it's too general/vague to tell.
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kradogsrats · 3 days
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everyone making serious guesses and I'm just sitting here thinking about the "tell me the name of god you fungal piece of shit" post
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kradogsrats · 5 days
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Where DO the fabled Great Ones hide?
So recently pulling together that in Xadia there were initially only the first elves, then there were primal elves, and then eventually there were no more first elves... we've been left with the question of how and why did primal elves come into being, and correspondingly, where did the first elves go?
To get a sense of timeline: if Aaravos is, as he claims in the Book One novelization prologue, one of the first elves, there were presumably still at least a few around as recently as 1000 years before series time—at least, if we're to believe that Ziard's "one of the great ones" answer for who gave him the staff is obfuscating that it was Aaravos for anyone other than the audience (which it may not be). The shift from "first elves" to "great ones" implies that they are, at the least, vastly inferior in population to the primal elves. Then by 300 years pre-series, all but Aaravos are gone—when push comes to shove, only the archdragons contend with him (there are none of his kind standing against him) and he has no allies (there are none of his kind standing with him).
The neatest, though by no means only, conclusion to draw is that the first elves somehow became the primal elves. But why would they do that? By all accounts, it's a definite step down—Aaravos can draw magic from any primal source, but we have yet to see a primal elf with magic beyond their own primal. Star, if it can truly be considered a primal source, is also implied to be stronger than the others, so cutting it off in order to dedicate yourself to another single primal isn't doing you any favors. And I mean, come on—primal elves are mortal, and we're given to believe the first elves were not. If some of the first elves became the initial primal elves, it seems like it would have to have been either a significant sacrifice on their part or something that was done unwillingly. Which means we're getting juicy.
Here's five far-fetched but 100% serious theories:
Theory 1: Primal elves for primal stones
This depends a bit on the exact relationship between the first elves and primal magic, which we don't know for certain—one possibility is that the first elves had equal access to all available primal sources as well as deep magic, but another is that primal magic was the sole domain of the dragons and other mortal creatures of Xadia. Aaravos has mastered magic of all primal sources, but I have to wonder if that was only because he was "fallen" and stripped of much of his natural power. Given that we see him cast primal magic with runes, it seems possible that primal magic is not native to the first elves the way it is to the dragons—Zubeia doesn't need a rune to cast Vocare Nimbum. If first elves had a similar natural ability with deep magic, that could put them on par with the archdragons in their power... and even if Aaravos was stripped of his deep magic ability, becoming an archmage of all primal sources would still make him a formidable opponent for Avizandum and Zubeia.
Anyway, if there were the first elves, with only/primarily deep magic, the dragons/creatures native to Xadia with only primal magic, and then humans with no magic, giving the suffering humans access to primal magic as a leg up makes sense in that it puts them on equal ground with their peers (the other mortals of Xadia) without elevating them too far. So what if, to craft the first primal stones and teach humans primal magic, Leola and her cohort had to become primal elves and bind themselves to a single primal source in order to understand it so thoroughly that they could trap it for use? I've theorized before that creating a primal stone requires star magic, but it definitely also requires magic of the primal that is being stored—if the first elves were not naturally primal mages, it may have been a necessary sacrifice. This would also complicate the "gift" of primal magic in that not only was it not intended for humans to receive, it wasn't Leola's to give in the first place.
Theory 2: Punishment that suits the crime
a.k.a. "well if you love primal magic and mortals so much, why don't you marry them"
Short and sweet counterpart to Theory 1: the punishment for Leola and her cohort after giving humans primal magic was to have most of their power and natures removed through becoming primal elves, mortal and chained to a single primal source.
Theory 3: Pacifier for the archdragons
At the time of the show, the primal elves don't seem to worship the archdragons, but they do serve and revere them. However, it's strongly implied that at least some primal elf cultures worshiped at least "their" archdragon—the specter of Sol Regem is basically inextricable from Sunfire elf rituals, and Rex Igneous demands extensive tribute essentially in sacrifice to him. Also, if there's one thing we know about archdragons, it's that they're proud to the point of arrogance. With the first elves as their peers, how would the dragons feel about humans directing their attention and worship to the stars? Probably not thrilled!
In that situation, it's possible that the first elves decided to create new elves in their own image, but bound to the primal sources and subservient to the archdragons, as a gesture of goodwill (possibly while rolling their eyes) to keep the peace (and stop their whining). Those primal elves then multiplied, formed their own societies, etc.
This one does leave the question of "... then what happened to the first elves?" but still. Though it could coexist nicely with the next...
Theory 4: Imitation is flattery
Honestly kind of stupid counterpart to Theory 3: it's the archdragons who decide to create their own primal servant copies of the first elves. Could they do that? Big shrug. Could they do it with the help of Someone(tm) among the first elves? ... slightly less big shrug.
Theory 5: A Lost Midnight War
I fully admit that I'm going kind of insane, BUT hear me out. In Patience, Aaravos asserts that after the gift of primal magic:
Humans would come to build great cities and fell great foes. They would thrive.
"Build great cities?" Yeah yeah, Elarion, we've all seen it... but wait, what was that second part? Exactly what great foes were humans felling? That seems kinda important, given how the politics of the time are described, but Aaravos chooses not to elaborate.
Then in Midnight Star we have the story of a situation where Elarion, in her tenacity and kindled power, attracts the ire of the dragons and is abandoned by the stars that she thought were her benefactors—except for Aaravos, who gives the saving gift of dark magic. The poem has a kind of compressed and figurative timeline, in that (as known from Ripples) humans received primal magic before Elarion's rise, so the impending doom in Midnight Star can't be the calamity of Ripples. That was also a punishment meted out by the stars rather than the dragons. The threat in Midnight Star also can't be the implied razing of Elarion concurrent with or following the human expulsion, because the implication is also that this is when Aaravos offered dark magic—he can't be only just now offering the thing that was the cause of the dragon's wrath in the first place.
So here's a theory: sometime in the intervening however many thousand years between humans receiving primal magic and dark magic, some kind of conflict arose between the remaining first elves and the archdragons. Humans having been given primal magic by some faction of the first elves (whether or not they were punished for it) and their subsequent rise did not help matters, and could possibly even have been the cause of the conflict in the first place. The archdragons, for whatever reason, came out on top—maybe there was internal strife among the first elves, or maybe their numbers had already diminished. The remaining first elves are given the choice of submitting to the archdragons as primal elves ("donned their masks") or leaving Xadia forever ("turned their backs"). Either way, humans were abandoned to their fate, and Aaravos is the "last" star remaining on Xadia proper.
The poem is very figurative overall, but particularly in its final stanzas—Elarion is a "dying husk," but Aaravos's gift revitalizes her to be more powerful than ever. My interpretation is that for the entire poem, "Elarion" has been a stand-in for humanity in general, possibly without any relation to the city of Elarion at all, and what is being described by "dying husk" could be the period of human suffering that preceded dark magic. We know that Elarion had a prolonged rise and golden age of literally a thousand years before humans were expelled from Xadia, and yet we are told that before dark magic, humans were weak and starving—either that's a straight-up lie (entirely possible) or something happened to cause human fortunes to change from good to bad. Something like... a period of direct and brutal punishment and oppression from the archdragons and their servants. Maybe at the time the poem is describing, Elarion the city was destroyed or hadn't even been built yet, and the eventual flourishing city humans are exiled from is built on the strength of dark magic, after all. (As I mentioned elsewhere, it's getting more and more to a point where the timeline simply doesn't make sense if Ziard was truly the first dark mage ever, rather than just the first one Aaravos manipulated into causing problems on purpose.)
Anyway: the first elves, facing defeat, either assimilated as primal elves or left Xadia entirely. (Or a secret third thing, as with Aaravos, possibly related to his "fallen" status.)
Also "elves either depart the world forever or choose to become mortal" is another very Tolkien thing, like just saying.
Bonus cursed theory: primal elves are the extremely unlikely offspring of first elves breeding with humans. I'll actually be really mad if the real answer is something that garbage, but if I have to think about it then you do, too.
Double-bonus EXTRA-cursed theory: primal elves are the extremely unlikely offspring of first elves breeding with dragons. I'd still be mad about this one but also kind of impressed that they went there for real.
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kradogsrats · 6 days
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I've thought on and off about the Sunfire elf bow, with the hands crossed in front of the face and fingers splayed, and I JUST realized it's another fucking representation of Sol Regem's horns
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kradogsrats · 6 days
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holy shit what if primal elves themselves were a gift/concession to the archdragons, created as worshipers for them to balance how humans were worshiping the first elves
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kradogsrats · 6 days
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Gift Giving & Primal vs First Elves :: Or Going Off Into the Deep Lore Deep End
Remember that meta I compiled about Greek mythology, deceptive gift giving, and TDP? Yeah it's time to talk about the gift motif properly as well as some other deep lore things because these excellent thoughts ( @spicyviren, @kradogsrats, and @its-leethee) got the wheels in my brain spinning.
AKA an unknown amount of sectioned word vomit into the nature of magic, where it comes from, how deep magic operates, some gifts and motifs, and Leola, just a little.
Let's go.
Gift Motif
The gift motif is one that's a bit of a slowburn in TDP. While characters will often pass and hand over objects — tools, artefacts, metaphorical responsibilities or trust (handing over the egg, for example) — to one another, there's not a big emphasis on gifts in the first three seasons.
There are some, such as Callum's letter from Harrow (that he's given by Claudia once again initially as a goodbye), Ezran giving Bait to Barius in S3, and Rayla's family pendant, but most of these, as you've might already noticed, are contextualized within Goodbyes. Whether the gift motif will amount in arc 2 to escaping this "final gift" context remains to be seen, but that's how it tends to work in interpersonal relationships.
There is an element of peace offering in hoping that returning Zym — a gift and/or gesture of good will — will help usher in peace, but I think (as of now at least) that ties further into the series' theme of Reciprocal Exchange (the assassin mission being an eye for an eye vs olive branch for olive branch) than outright gift giving. (Although we will probably talk about Exchange and gift giving at some point because there is also a thematic tether there.)
However, there is one other thing that is more and more often referred to as a gift in Arc 1, and that's Magic. Specifically, dark magic.
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Now, this actually isn't that dissimilar from what the Goodbye gifts amount to, either. In Harrow's letter, he gifts Callum the Key of Aaravos believing it to be a powerful magical relic of some kind; Rayla's pendant makes its way from Ethari to her to Callum, who then uses it for magical purposes; and Bait, as a glow toad, is connected to an arcanum himself.
I do think it's noteworthy though that in Arc 1, (dark) magic being a gift is emphasized upon, specifically because of these lines for Khessa:
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Upon first watching it back in 2019, it made sense that dark magic would be referred to this way, even when I just thought maybe it was that humans had been given 'nothing,' as Claudia says. Dark magic is closely tied to ideas of theft and thievery — stealing magic from others to harness its power for yourself — and the series is deeply interested in concepts of ownership or who has 'true' ownership over something, in magic, a throne/crown, a price to pay, etc. This follows neatly into Arc 2 (for ex: why Karim seeking to steal the Sun Seed is a metaphorical dark path even if it didn't outright involve dark magic through Kim'Dael), which we'll build on later.
That said, given the depth of the knowledge at the Great Bookery that is open to Sunfire elves more than any other type of elf, and the information that Tales of Xadia and Ripples gives us...
While elves warned that if humans were meant to wield magic they would have been born with it, [Leola] gifted the wisest humans with secrets: the language of the dragons and the runes that shaped spells. With the unicorn’s gift, the most determined minds among the humans could finally harness primal magic.
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It happened long ago, when humans had only just learned to hold fire in their hands without burning. They nurtured their precious primal flames secretly—in the dark of night, beneath shadows and shrouds—as cultivating its glow drew the eyes and ire of monsters [...] Humanity had been given something it was never meant to have. And so there came a calamity.
It makes it more than likely than, unlike other elves such as Lujanne or Ibis, Khessa had reason to believe/know that there used to be primal human mages in the past... and that it wasn't 'enough' for them ultimately, because they still hungered and developed (and were given?) dark magic. "Your kind could not be satisfied with what you were given" was about the rejection of primal magic from Leola (the unicorns) in favour of a darker kind that involves theft and "dirtying yourself" (5x08) with dark magic.
But at the same time, this complicates the Gift Giving motif of including not just dark magic, but being also for primal magic — for humans, at least.
And also for elves. (Ignoring how "great orb" is very similar to "great one" for now.)
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Janai: It was a gift. But there's more to it than that. The great orb began as this. Karim: This is... a sun seed?
Now, the Great Orb being grown from a Sun 'literal' seed makes sense. We've known for a long time that in Xadia, "magic is everywhere. It's just part of the vibrance or spirit of things" (1x05). Primal magic naturally occurring in plants, animals, and elves likewise makes sense on that note. Just as not "many could bear the gruelling path of a rune mage," Karim cannot bear to have patience and faith in something that will only come to fruition centuries later.
That said, I raise the question: how functionally different is the Great Orb from say, a sun primal stone would hypothetically be? If primal stones and primal magic were gifts to humanity from unicorns — from creatures connected to the Star arcanum, for lack of a better understanding — then why not magic from Startouch (?) elves to other elves.
How do we know that all magic isn't simply a gift that was given once upon a time?
From the First Elves to the Primal Elves.
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Primal vs First Elves
So what's the difference between First Elves and Primal elves?
Well we have a few pieces of lore:
1) Zubeia's status as a "heavenly majesty" (which we'll come back to in the next section) gives her authority to speak in the name of the first elves, who are effectively gods to humankind and/or Xadians ("Have our Gods died? / Where do the fabled Great Ones hide?" —the Epic of the Void
2) It seems that the First Elves are, as of now and for a while, exclusively in reference to what would otherwise be called Startouch elves, although the latter is seemingly a name that came later given Rayla's affirmation of "ancient legends". This is reaffirmed in Tales of Xadia's two lone mention of First Elves:
No group of elves presents a greater mystery than the Startouch elves. Sometimes called the First Elves, those bound to the Star primal are rumored to have made great marks on Xadia’s ancient history—but beyond story and legend, little real evidence is left to us today [...] Among the few extant records of Startouch elves are the Scrolls of the First Elves, now kept in the Great Bookery of Lux Aurea.
3) At a post-S2 con in 2019 (how's that for a far reach?) we got a timeline of the events of Xadia laid out for us. The description of the very first piece of history and era we know of goes as follows, with the Rise of Elarion happening 2000 years ago re: the Dragon Prince era ("The Return of Aaravos"):
The Era of the First elves is the first recorded era 5,000 years prior to the current era. Dragons and elves were not allied during this period. There were no distinct primal elves. This is an era before all that. Humans suffered during this period. 
—2019 con timeline
4) Justin and Aaron reaffirm this at the 2:30 ish minute mark of this video (a couple of months before even S3 was released) by reaffirming distinctly to Primal elves. Later (7:40-ish mark) we see this distinction reaffirmed again through the statement of, "The patterns have been that these primal based elves have grown cultures and civilizations that have become separate and differentiated from kind of whatever the early days were with the First elves were."
Okay, so there was 100% a time where there were only First Elves, and humans, and Primal elves as we knew them (maybe still with the hands and horns, but no arcanum? Or no singular, distinct arcanum) didn't exist. Why does this matter?
This is where the deep lore timeline gets tricky, as we don't know precisely when 1) humans received magic and 2) at what stage the First Elves / Great Ones / Startouch elves 'left' Xadia, only that they did, apparently, when Elarion (the human city) needed help: "Elarion, unworthy whelp / Wept as the stars turned black the sky / They donned their masks / They turned their backs / And left Elarion to die". Why abandon the city (beyond indifference/cruelty as Aaravos would likely claim), who knows.
However, we can assume the timeline looks something like this:
Era of the First Elves
Primal elves (and presumably archdragons *) are crafted / develop into being, whatever that means
Humans are magic-less and are having a bad time
Unicorns / Leola extend sympathy despite the fact that the First Elves tell her not to (Book One: Novelization / Tales of Xadia)
Humans have primal magic (Ripples / Tales of Xadia)
This attracts negative attention, consolidated in Elarion ("the stars she asked their light to cast / and stop the dragons’ fiery might" / "as cultivating its glow drew the eyes and ire of monsters. Eventually, for the audacity of their fire, they were hunted")
Elarion asks for help and the Stars leave
Aaravos, the last star — presumably already Fallen from the First Elves — gives them dark magic under the guise of protection even though it will inevitably help him (i.e. give him the ability to possess people)
Dark magic replaces primal magic as the primary form for humans
Tension and violence escalates (unicorns are hunted to near extinction). Sol Regem is removed as King of the Dragons
Under Dragon Queen Luna Tenebris, the daughter of an elven leader suggests the Judgement of the Half-Moon, causing for humans to be banished rather than eradicated, and the continent split in two
Again, nothing too crazy / not too much we haven't already known or guessed at for a while.
But like I said, I'm gonna propose two theories, so bear with me:
Theory #1: What is Deep Magic?
The First Elves engaged with what we're gonna call Deep or Old Magic, for lack of a better term. There can be an assumption at times that this magic would be more 'pure' or less 'diluted' than dark magic or even the primal magic we've seen on screen. However, I think that's less than likely. Dark magic is often times a bad path for good outcomes, and primal magic can be a 'good' magic for bad outcomes (the blood freezing spell, for example).
While dark magic is a more textually malevolent magic system and primal magic is more true neutral — able to be used as a tool and a source of connection for the user — I don't think this necessarily means that Deep Magic is inherently enlightening (we see with the Ocean arcanum and S5 that knowledge can be an immense burden) or that it's on the opposite end of the spectrum and is outright benevolent.
What, then, am I suggesting Deep Magic to be? Well, we have some clues likewise from the same old interview post-s2 that we haven't had much basis to (potentially) understand until now, in which it's stated:
Deeper magic and deeper gifts that the original beings received [...] practical, usable, powerful magic is drawn from the six primal sources, right? But there is this idea that there's this earlier, less differentiated power kind of magic that's deeper and more - I don't kind of want to say what all of them are. It's not that important now, it has more to do with the history of beings and their interactions with each other. But Aaravos cares about some of this stuff. The best I can say is that one of them's Power — but well, what does that mean?
The six primal sources — potentially just five (hence why only 5 gemstones seem to occur naturally in nature, and Star seemingly doesn't) — are all based around physical, somewhat tangible principles. Earth, Ocean, Sun (fire/light), Sky (wind/weather) are perhaps the most tangible, with only Moon dipping into something into something more metaphysical: illusions and questioning the nature of reality, the nature of death, etc. However, I'd argue that the Moon arcanum's emphasis on death still makes it something that is particularly important to creatures who are mortal (but more on that later).
What I am arguing for is then, therefore, that Deep Magic is magic drawn from Concepts and Ideas > tangible things found in nature or parts of other magical creatures.
Three concepts, to be exact: (translated dark magic screenshot from Cartoon Universe spells reversed).
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Zubeia: He chose as his instruments those who had strong hearts and strong minds, but who had an insatiable thirst and fascination with magic (power).
Three quasar diamonds, three deep magic concepts. Heart, Mind, Power.
("To know something truly and deeply, you must know it with your head, hand, and heart. Mind, body, and spirit." / "She laid before me her scales, her blindfold, and her sword, and told me to choose.")
Now, I don't know if it's these three concepts exactly — I could Truth, or Justice, or something like that — or even if it's three. But given what little we know about Deep magic thus far and how much the series' likes its threes, I think that's the likeliest number and combination.
We've known for a while that there's something weird with the connection between dark magic, spells that use blood, and 'star' magic. We know it's unlikely that Aaravos being able to possess people who have used dark magic was just a happy accident discovered after humans started using it. We know that when Callum is offered the dark magic version of the cube in his dreams, the symbol is blood red: "You can have unlimited power." And that dark magic "became the key that unlocked a place of power for humans in Xadia" (Tales of Xadia).
So what if dark magic stems from the vein of Deep magic that's taken from the concept of Power? What if when Aaravos offered his pawns "unlimited" Power, or when Kpp'Ar accused Viren of (potentially using star magic) "making the same choice you always made: the one that gives you Power," they meant it?
Alternatively, this could mean that most other Startouch elves — their longevity, their indifference — comes from the vein of Mind and subsequent intellectual detachment? Enough intelligence and reason not to hunger for more (Power), but not enough compassion and empathy to sympathize with others (Heart).
And it would also tie into Leola being unique among her own kind for her heart taking pity on the humans, and giving them primal magic — perhaps in the vein of Heart, if we're keeping things consistent — and why love ("To know something truly and deeply [...] I love you with all of myself, and I always will" / "To love is simply to know this: the tides are true as the ocean is deep") has been consistently tied to Callum unlocking arcanums. The "Narrative of Strength (power)" vs "Narrative of Love" being even more literal than we thought.
This wouldn't be too out of line since Moon arcanum philosophy already borrows heavily from Plato's idea of the forms/reality (Plato's allegory of the cave, anyone?) and the forms basically mean "your imagined ideal of the object in your mind is going to be more perfect than any tangible, 'real' version of the object could ever be." That being applied to living beings who are literally in the sky would track a certain amount, in addition to the idea that however primal magic is set up in Xadia right is "the whole world is like a giant primal stone; sky magic is all around us, and it's also in me, with every breath we take." But I digress.
With the distinction of Deep Magic as 1) separate and a sea that flows into the primal as well as 2) older and earlier than primal magic, now onto the next theory:
Theory #2: First elves and the Archdragons?
Now admittedly this one is more speculative since beyond knowing 1) the First elves = what we'd call Startouch elves, 2) the rest of them except Aaravos 'left' Xadia a while ago, and 3) the aforementioned possible 'Mind' deep magic thing, we very quickly run out of set knowledge into full blown speculation. Beyond
With that in mind, I wanna talk about the... weirdness, I suppose, between the Archdragons / draconic royal family and the First Elves.
There's a few notes to this: we know that Ancient Draconic is the language of primal magic, indicating that dragons existed and presumably had primal magic before elves did, and that elves had to be given that linguistic knowledge at least to a certain degree.
Then we also have the way Zubeia is referred to being mirrored with the way she describes Aaravos later:
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Likewise, the one person/creature we've seen referred to as a god outside the Epic of the Void poem is Avizandum by Harrow (bonus points for the game motif of "entire armies have fallen like toys" because of him):
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Bloodmoon Huntress also asserts that from an elven point of view (or at least Lain and Tiadrin, and presumably Runaan, too) that "Dragons are the lifeblood, the very core of Xadia" and generally assumed that dragons have the most powerful connection to their individual primal sources.
So I'd be willing to wager (esp since Sol Regem is at least 1,2000+ years old) that Archdragons at least once upon a time had been contemporaries of the First Elves if not peers. What and why that connection exists and how relevant it is for today, I don't know, but I do think there's something there, especially since the one example we have of a First Elf-Dragon relationship in Aaravos, Avizandum, and Zubeia, was perceived to be positive somewhat on all sides — a matter of trust on his end (in order to be "betrayed") and a matter of reverence and importance on theirs; "admired and loved by all" / "you meant something to him".
There is also something to be said for the Archdragons being the most powerful embodiment of the primal sources (alongside maybe some rare and noteworthy elves, like Queen Aditi) still being "unable to risk a direct confrontation" with only one singular and Fallen Startouch elf. What would a whole slew of them at the height of their power look like? (And yet it is implied that the Nova Blade is "ivory draconic" so... maybe you just have to get a First Elf close enough to the mouth to be consumed / bitten? Or perhaps the Nova Blade is made from the tooth/claw of a 'Star' arcanum dragon.)
TLDR; it's looking more and more like Startouch elves as we understand them and First Elves in generally are — while emotive and feeling the way humans and elves are — something very different from anything else we've seen thus far in terms of knowledge and power skill, and that distinction is only going to be made more and more apparent as the story goes on.
Theory #3: Where do we go from here?
So if Deep Magic is distinct from Primal, and is distinct from 2/3 kinds of Deep Magic in dark magic (derived from 5-primal and Power deep magic thoughts)... where do we go from here, magically speaking?
Well, the important thing to note is that the story has given us some thematic clues. Aaravos is concerned with exile and power, both things we see thematically most represented by human characters (with some elven exceptions like Karim and Kim'Dael). The other Star touch elves are very on brand for "Xadian exile" as their favourite punishment as well as extreme isolationism ("I knew I had to be strong alone" etc). Therefore, whatever answer we give Magically also has to reconcile these issues from a thematic and character based standpoint.
It seems like a switch of where people are concentrating energy — for Startouch elves and humans — needs to have a drastic shift to one of the other veins/concepts of deep magic that will hopefully heal the rifts. If Aaravos is Power (humans) and the others are 'Mind' (Xadian indifference/isolation and banishment) for lack of a better idea, then subverting that binary and shifting more to a third 'Love' path seems to be very on brand for TDP. Holding both at the same time but being guided by a higher principle of peace and harm reduction is what Ezran's 4x03 speech is all about, after all.
Something something both Xadia and magic and the First Elves being reunited with Xadia / humanity and elvenkind as TDP's endgame, something something.
Other Gift Giving Thoughts
The other thing I wanna talk about now that everything else is laid out is how gifts are Given, in TDP. We see time and time again relationships and magic systems being framed on the idea of whether they are giving, taking, both in a bad way or in a good way. There seems to be two main indicators for gift giving, therefore, either that in the receiver is worthy, or that the exchange is going to be reciprocal.
At its best, a gift works as intended.
Humans (and elves?) are given primal magic and generally use it for exploration and to care for themselves / one another The sun seed is given to the Sunfire elves, but they must nurture it. Callum gives Rayla her father's bow and she uses it to protect them. Callum achieves enlightenment and understanding of him and is rewarded with primal magic twice, even if the Ocean in particular is a bit murkier than he'd probably like. Gifts and belongings are relinquished or restored for freedom, for hope, for peace.
Here we have to wonder if Leola's Last Wish reconciles both the Goodbye gift motif and the gift of Magic motif, possibly resulting in the gift of the sun seed or more likely something to do with primal magic / alleviate the fallout of dark magic's consequences.
For example, to get an answer from Rex Igneous — a seeming wealth of knowledge — you have to give him a worthy gift that is also a sacrifice of some kind, according to Nath'an.
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However, Ezran points out the major flaw in this line of thinking, as "We offered gifts that meant a lot to us, but the truth is, they don't mean anything to you." Not everyone is going to value the same thing or think the same thing is worth the price that was paid.
We see this interpersonally most with the mage fam ("Maybe the world would be better off without magic" from Soren, whose life was saved with it) and with Rayla and Callum (as Rayla's gift of sacrifice by leaving is something Callum did not want and rightfully did not receive well, alongside her moonstone pendant). Again: what is defined as worthy, or worthiness, is in the eye of the beholder.
Just like one of the initial thoughts that inspired this meta, Khessa asserts that dark magic is a magic that "takes" > being reciprocal for both parties, nevermind a gift. The irony, however, runs a bit deeper, as Aaravos thinks the same of his fellow stars:
But the stars kept from them one secret still: that their first lesson—patience—was not a gift of the stars at all. You see, patience is a lesson the humans taught themselves. No, the stars do not know patience, for they have no need for it. The stars want for nothing, and take all to their liking.
And we see this idea of a 'false gift' show up time and time again in the series. Nyx pretends to offer passage but actually wants to steal Zym; Rayla's act of love in leaving is a curse upon Callum's heart and wellbeing; dark magic itself is a false trade of sorts, given how unevenly it tips scales in Aaravos' favour and how much it ruins both the environment and body of its caster.
[The elven thief Lasair] never saw the precious blossoms fade and turn to cold ashes when exposed to the dawn. They never learned their gift was perceived as a curse, not a trade. 
—Tales of Xadia
Kim'Dael goes to Queen Aditi under false pretences ("The Queen's Mercy") but the gift that Aditi gives her is nothing good at all:
What pretty bauble, she wondered, had she tricked the queen into forging as a token of protection? What could be powerful enough to ward away the wrath of dragons?
Just as humans sought the stars' help to protect them from the ire of the dragons, Kim'Dael sought Aditi's. And just as Aaravos offered them a false magic that would protect and ultimately trap/destroy then, so does Aditi, with magic that doesn't seem to be entirely dark or primal:
“But know this: the binding around your neck—it is made with magic not unlike your own. It is a magic that demands, that takes."
A form of magic even maybe that demands sacrifice for that kind of Power.
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You could almost say it's something Deeper.
Conclusion
Hope you enjoyed going completely off the rails with me, and that this long (winded) post got you thinking! I'll probably do a followup discussing the implications of what we have here for potential Laurelion-Aaravos later. In the meantime, take the fruits of my labour, and spin your own hamster wheels if you'd like.
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kradogsrats · 6 days
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the orphan queen and aaravos doing the "show yourself" bridge section from "warrior of the mind" send tweet
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