paluimbel

[paluimbel]

hi, so i saw a post where you said "science says endos exist" and i wanted to ask, how? are there papers/studies things like that proving endogenic is an origin that can actually happen? if so, do you have any links to them? or any other thing where "science said it" in some way?

(i'm really sorry if this came off as blunt or like i'm trying to argue, i'm bad at phrasing things sometimes but i'm actually just trying to eductate myself since for the longest time i thought it was unproven)

I gave a few examples in a thread on a post in response to a hateful anti-endo, but they dragged those resources saying they aren't real because they claim it is just an opinion and biased. The thing is, if people say they experience something we believe them because no one can define how each individual brain on this planet works. Science says the possibility is there.

And science is a record of observation and experiences so by that alone if people say they experience something we believe it. We are tired of seeing senseless hate towards other system origins because of people being stuck on science that is set to hurt systems as a whole. Plurality is the concept of being more than one in a body, not a disorder. Other reasons people give are "Oh, why does a brain that didn't experience trauma need to stay split for?" Maybe that person is born like that. Maybe their brain sees working in units better than working as one single "unit"

Like even computers run off multiple programs. The point is as a community we need to get off of senseless hate over origin because the singlets who think DID/OSDD aren't real think we all are faking, traumagenic or endogenic alike. And also, the concept of being plural for reasons other than trauma is not a new thing.

So please, I'm sleepy, it's early and my best bet to learn about endogenic systems and other origins is to talk to those who have those experiences instead of letting yourself be closed up because you keep hearing the anti-endo echo chamber crying about them.

Our spouse is a mixed origin system. That's why we will never hate or say other origins are not possible.

[paluimbel]

Idk where this incorrect quote is from but @funnier-as-a-system

Mumbling

Ryusui: Why is senku mumbling to himself? Gen: He is having a staff meeting.

[paluimbel]

Plural Systems! This is a comic for my plural friends and i hope it helps any singlets reading understand a little more about them ^^ for the record I'm not plural, im not an authority on the subject but I'm trying my best to learn more and wanted to share!

I had some help on this one from @welldrawnfish and @ralathehuntress

This whole comic came from someone in our community that im very close with but im not sure if they have officially stated they are Plural here so ill not tag them, needless to say if it wasn't for them and thier amaizng headmates i couldn't have made this comic, thier experiences have helped me understand a whole other type of experience in a way that im sure i wouldn't have been able to understand without them!

❤️💜💖💚💙💛

[paluimbel]

#Nineteen

[pt: Nineteen]

[paluimbel]

I'm gonna preface this by saying that we identify as mixed-origins, but we're primarily traumagenic and probably have OSDD-1, which is why we're responding. (In case anyone's curious, we id as mixed-origins bc while our system was initially formed through trauma, we also consider a number of other things to be contributing factors, like our ADHD and autism, for example). (Also, I say we "probably" have OSDD-1 because not everyone in our system is comfortable or confident self-dxing and we haven't been able to talk about it with a therapist yet.)

Honestly, we feel a lot safer in endo-inclusive spaces than anti-endo ones, largely because we've never once been fakeclaimed in an endo-inclusive space, but we have seen a lot of systems get fakeclaimed for traits that we also have in anti-endo or even just traumagenic-only spaces, so whenever we interact with those spaces it kinda feels like we have to walk on eggshells to avoid being "too weird" and getting fakeclaimed. (Traits we have that we have seen others get fakeclaimed for, for reference: having a complicated innerworld, having a high number of headmates, coming up with our own terminology to describe stuff in our system, enjoying being a system, having a lot of fictives, etc.) While we've definitely run into some shitty people in pro-endo spaces, we've run into a lot more shitty people in anti-endo ones.

Additionally, various endogenic and pro-endo systems were massively helpful to us in the early stages of figuring out our plurality. Most anti-endo spaces tend to insist the only way to be a system is to have DID/OSDD, and we... don't fit super neatly into the diagnostic criteria for either. Additionally, while we were already aware of our childhood trauma and how it affected us, a lot of anti-endo sources seemed to sort of... quietly imply, if not outright state, that it wasn't enough to cause DID/OSDD. (Our trauma is mostly verbal/emotional abuse, which doesn't really get talked about in DID/OSDD spaces that much. Also, we don't really have many clear symptoms of PTSD or CPTSD, and a lot of what we saw sorta implied that if we were traumatized enough to be a system we should practically be drowning in PTSD symptoms).

Point is, it was massively helpful to have a community that accepted the possibility that we could be a system without DID/OSDD, because it gave us time and space to question and eventually accept our plurality and learn to communicate with one another before having to worry about whether or not we met the diagnostic criteria for a specific medical condition. It definitely helped several main fronters work through their denial.

On top of that, a number of resources created by endogenic systems were massively helpful to us in figuring out how our system worked, building communication, etc. It was actually an endogenic system who pointed out to us that we were probably primarily traumagenic!

By this point it should be pretty clear that we believe endogenic systems are real. While we haven't seen any studies "proving" their existence (which makes sense, as it's kinda hard to prove an internal experience and plural issues in general are under-researched), we have seen an increasing number of sources within the feild of psychology that acknowledge it as a thing. While not all psychologists agree, obviously, there are still psychologists who refuse to even accept DID exists, despite massive amounts of research, so getting enough "proof" to get everyone to agree kinda seems like a loosing battle.

On top of that, human brains are both complex and far more flexible than most people give them credit for. Most mental disorders have a long list of potential causes and/or contributing factors, even disorders primarily caused by trauma, like PTSD, so while the evidence pretty clearly shows DID and related disorders are primarily caused by trauma, it doesn't seem that out of the question that there could be other contributing factors, or that the experience of being more-than-one could show up in a non-disordered way.

Honestly, I think trying to separate out the plural community into traumagenic DID/OSDD systems vs. endogenic non-disordered systems would ultimately do more harm than good for a number of reasons.

1. It would automatically leave out any systems who don't clearly fit into that dichotomy, including systems like us, who have complicated views on their origins, as well as any DID/OSDD systems who have spiritual beliefs surrounding their plurality or whose plurality predates the trauma that caused their disorder and traumagenic systems who don't feel comfortable with medical labels and/or don't have the resources to get a diagnosis.

2. While traumagenic and endogenic experiences do differ, there's a lot of overlap and a lot of grey area. Both communities have been exchanging terms back and forth for long enough that trying to separate them out and police which groups could use what terms would inevitably cause problems. Terms like "fictive" and "factive", for instance, originated in endogenic communities, but are now widely used in even anti-endo spaces.

3. It would cut a lot of systems off from hugely beneficial resources. PluralKit and SimplyPlural were both created by pro-endos and endogenic systems, so trying to police which group uses what would either cause a lot of problems for disordered systems who use them or ban people from a resource they helped create. Also, exchanging experience and knowledge between different types of systems can be massively helpful for everyone involved, speaking from personal experience.

4. We all face discrimination on the basis of being more than one in a deeply singlet-centric society. DID/OSDD systems often also face ableism on the basis of their disorder, so I'm not saying that the struggles both sides of the community face are exactly the same, but broader acceptance of plurality in general would be massively helpful for traumagenic and endogenic systems alike. Acceptance of plurality as a part of someone's identity, as opposed to purely caused by trauma and inherently only existing as a part of a specific handful of mental disorders, would also help a lot of traumagenic and DID/OSDD systems because it would allow us to be open about our plurality without having to disclose our diagnoses or trauma.

Tl;dr - We believe endogenic systems in regards to their origins and experiences and believe that not only is an inclusive community beneficial for everyone involved, but trying to draw a hard line between traumagenic DID/OSDD systems and endogenic and/or non-disordered systems is likely to cause far more harm than good.

Social experiment.

I want every traumagenic system (AKA) people with DID/OSDD to freely comment and tell me how you feel about ENDOs and what we as a community should do.

This is a safe space so if I see anyone harassing each other I will delete the comments.

- Roman B

#syscourse

[paluimbel]

r/systemscringe mods are now encouraging people to doubt abuse victims specifically because they say they have dissociative disorders...

Yesterday r/systemscringe added someone new to their hit list. Part of this included accusations of grooming against this individual. I'm not going to talk about those specific accusations since they aren't anyone I know nor anyone I expect my followers would be interacting with. (As I understand, they're an anti-endo TikToker)

What I do want to talk about was this disclaimer r/systemscringe mod u/DizkoLites added to their post:

Now I will note that there can be good reason to be skeptical of any allegations. People do lie for all sorts of reasons. I've had plenty of lies spread about me personally, including directly by r/systemscringe members and moderators. It's unfortunate that there are bad people out there who will take advantage of the trusting nature of human beings in order to lie and hurt others, and that this erodes trust in genuine reports of abuse.

But this has gone further than just general skepticism and is arguing that abuse allegations from systems should be distrusted just for them being systems and talking about being systems.

So here is a reminder: if any systems from r/systemscringe are reading this right now... these people are not your friends. These people cannot be trusted.

The hatesub r/systemscringe is not only pushing ableism and hate, but is specifically encouraging people to disbelieve trauma reports from anyone who dares be open about having DID.

This is not innocent. This is not harmless. This is not victimless.

Their members over the past few months have attempted to rebrand their subreddit as a place of education. And it's unknown the reach of their 30,000+ members. How many are medical professionals? How many are lawyers or judges? How many are police officers? How many will become these things in the future?

Make no mistake, your so-called friends in r/systemscringe are actively working towards making the world less likely to believe and trust you when you report being a victim of trauma and abuse. The next time someone doesn't believe you because you're a system, remember that it's because of people like this.

Shame on you r/systemscringe. And you specifically, u/DizkoLites.

[paluimbel]

this is your friendly reminder that faking is a conscious choice. you can’t fake unintentionally.

you can be mistaken, and that’s ok! there’s no shame in that. you chose the label that best fit the information you had at the time. that’s just part of life, and that means you’re growing and learning more about yourself.

it’s ok to be unsure, don’t be too hard on yourself. you’ll figure it out, in time. <3

[paluimbel]

One of the less noticeable but very annoying signs of DID in us is the Sudden Opinion Change.

In minor instances I can go from loving a video game and then having no interest in it and often no memory of how I felt playing it the next day.

In more common and problematic instances, it's yearning for a person and then absolutely despising them 3 hours later without interacting with them at all.

[paluimbel]

Historically, "you" was the formal/plural and "thou/thee" was the informal singular. If thou want to preserve the destinction, all thou have to do is start using "thou/thee" when thou would use the informal singular.

When I’m speaking English I yearn desperately for plural/formal you pronouns. To the point where I’m trying to use them and forget they don’t exist

[paluimbel]

Sometimes I just, like, come across the realisation (again), that my system is really strange.

And no, I don't mean that in a "oh you're so weird" /silly way, I mean it in an "..what do you mean: 'what is [normal thing in our system]'??"

*inhale* I JUST REALISED HOW MUCH WE INVENTED. WTF-

We have: (list of weird things, or at least things I find weird about my system)

our own language

eleven of our sixteen species were made by us

whole new pronoun sets! (anki, dani and guard)

fucken "status pronouns" (help) (forced by species)

"layers" (help x2)

our element and weapon system (it's weird, ok?)

same as the one before, "phases"

the rule that no duplicate names/duplicates* are allowed (some leniency on the second one)

our weird way of using "front status" (symbols, idk who came up with it, lol)

I'm gonna put lore on here too, because it's just weird

power/passive ability systems

changelog and versions (we are on v52!)

pretty sure we created a religion too.. (or at least use a different name for one)

too many groups on SimplyPlural (/lhj)

...our therian/alterhuman groups are done by animal family names because, yes (help x3)

(honourable mention) crews (and their IDs)

fucking member IDs (help x4, the database is pain)

symbols used for weird purposes: age category has "∞" as an allowed answer (species is immortal) and is always paired with an age: "30 - ∞"

SCN/Scene (and also what we refer to as "Source Keys" or "SCN Keys")

Anyway, yeah, I was totally not bored and then remembered that I made all this work for myself! (And this is barely half, hehe, my poor sanity)

(happy to answer questions or whatever, this is literally just me complaining about how weird my little world is, lol)

- Serenity of OC

#woooo! always fun to see other systems with in-sys conlangs and Lore(TM)

[paluimbel]

Being a fictive from a cross-genre crossover au is like "yeah, I'm kinda glad I avoided getting isekai'd to the Gothic Horror Dimension, but now I'm stuck in the Late Stage Capitalism Dimension and honestly at this point I don't know which is worse."

#-joe #plurality #endo safe #anti endos dni #actually plural #osdd #plural system #osddid #the crossover au was hermitcraft x magic the gathering by the way #fictive

[paluimbel]

The trick is to get a bunch of rings and wear them on all your fingers, that way it looks less like a wedding ring.

In-sys married couple culture is wanting to buy a ring to wear while fronting but also jot wanting people you're not out to getting the wrong idea

.

#-pearl #this is what elsie and tess do btw

[paluimbel]

Singlet existential questions are so funny to me. Like, "why are we here? Why do we exist?"

Idk about you, but I'm here because one of the idiots (affectionate) I share a body with decided to watch too much vault hunters while the body was suffering from an ear infection.

#-tess #sidenote but did you know you can get swimmers ear by wearing earbuds too much? #because we sure as heck did not #anti endos dni #endo safe #plurality #actually plural #plural system

[paluimbel]

Tfw you realize there's a not insignificant chance you're gonna have to watch naruto as research for a mcyt fanfiction.

#plz help #T-T #this is for our plural!hermitcraft series btw #if anyone has any plurality related headcanons for kakashi pls let us know #it would save us a lot of trouble

[paluimbel]

It Is Not Just That.

1. The character who enters the mindscape (tallinn) runs into a younger version of the "singlet" character (picard) whose mindscape it is. While the kid is stuck reliving childhood trauma over and over, he's clearly self aware enough that it can't be just a memory; mini-picard seems at least somewhat aware that he's stuck in a repeating cycle.

2. While the mindscape break in is happening, Picard is talking to this other dude who a) is clearly aware of info Picard isn't, specifically trauma-related info b) keeps referring to "Picard's" mental health and stuff related to the body using first person plural pronouns, c) is very clearly a seperate, self aware entity, with different opinions and beliefs, d) identifies as Picard's father, despite having a personality that doesn't quite line up with what we've seen before (some of which might be TV retconning but honestly "abuser introject that underwent character development" makes just as much sense, if not more, than the given in-universe reason).

3. Also happening in this episode: Agnes and the Borg Queen are in the middle of figuring out how to deal with the whole "we share a body now" thing. So. Currently they're not on great terms and it's presented kinda like the Queen is taking Agnes' body for an evil joyride, but unlike most possession arcs in fiction, they eventually not only reconcile but manage to integrate their goals and beliefs to the point where they merge into a single entity that still has Extremely Strong Plural Vibes. So uhhh. (Honestly I could spend ages talking about how extremely plural the Jurati Collective is but that's best left for its own post).

4. I have seen at least one singlet who does a lot of analysis on this show describe one of this season's main themes as "integration of parts of self" without making any explicit mention of plurality, plural systems, dissociative disorders, etc. So uh. Do with that what you will.

Star Trek Picard s2e7 Monsters

rating: ahhh entering a mindscape. plural

[paluimbel]

ok ok so like a few days ago (i think??) i spiralled over some shit so badly i hallucinated i was talking to fucking luke triton in my head. like he materialised and we had some disjointed conversation. also he didn’t like being in there and was slightly amnesiac. it was a fucking experience lolll

[paluimbel]

Me, after forgetting to cut the top off an onion before dicing it: “Aw dammit”

The Gordon Ramsey that lives in my head: “Don’t worry there, this mistake isn’t going to ruin anything. No need to be too hard on yourself”

Me: “Wow, that’s…not what I was expecting”

Gordon: “Of course, you ought to know by now that I don’t shout at cooks just to do so. I do it because the people in hit television show Kitchen Nightmares are putting their services out into the public and claim to be good enough to have the title of head chef. You’re just some guy in your twenties making beef stroganoff for yourself and your roommate. I’m kind of a dick, yeah, but I’m not gonna scream at you for a minor mistake like this”

Me: “Oh….well…thanks”

Gordon: “You’re welcome…cunt…”