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oblivious-aro · 1 month

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Apologies if this is a bit of a weird ask, but I'm kinda curious about if you've had any experiences with not liking LGBT+ media that was seen as a must watch, and what your thoughts were on them? That reblog sprung me back to thinking the Matrix was boring in middle school despite it being a Trans movie and feeling slightly confused why my friends were surprised by it.

(also that dear lgbt kids blog is really cool, thank you for sharing it!)

Not a weird ask at all, 'tis an honour when the internet people are interested in my thoughts :)

(also yes, I looove dear lgbt kids, that blog is so soothing!)

I wasn't really thinking of anything in particular when I reblogged that post, but if I had to list some specific examples, Steven Universe and Nimona come to mind.

SU's lgbt+ content never sat right with me because of the fact that only character that were lgbt+ were the gems. So in this show, any and all lgbt+ characters are...literaly aliens.

Yeah...

Even outside any lgbt+ themes, the show was a slog to watch. It started off decently enough, but as the it went on, the quality deteriorated heavily. The plot was all over the place, the characters were massacred, and the protagonist is the only child character in all of media who I genuinely hate.

But for some reason, lgbt+ fandom loses their mind over SU. When I read the stuff they say, I honestly wonder if we watched the same show. Like the show's got some decent moments, but it ain't all that. Not even close.

This might be a catty thing to say, but I think it's because it's got a space theme, pastel colours, and some androgynous looking characters. From the way some people talk, a lot of them seem to think that certain aesthetics are more valuable rep than actual lgbt+ content.

I didn't really interact with people online when SU was airing, but my sister was a diehard fan of the show, and we got into a lot of (in hindsight very petty) arguments about it.

I don't judge people who like bad shows (my most used tag is 'Lego ninjago', glass houses), but SU fans always seemed so defensive wave atright up dishonest about the show they claimed to love (this post is long enough, so I won't go into specifics).

It was borderline surreal (and slightly insanity inducing), watching a show that did so little get praised for so much.

Nimona was okay, but very overhyped. Story wise, I think it needed some buffing in a few areas, but it's a fine kids movie that just didn't super grab me.

As for the lgbt+ elements, the two main bits are a gay couple and some gender stuff.

The gay couple are...well they exist I guess. I didn't like how any potentially interesting angles of Goldenloin's character were sacrificed because the writers really wanted him and Boldheart to be fighting the whole movie instead of doing anything actually romantic. The romance isn't interesting, and one of the characters is barely a character. Eh.

Now on to the gender stuff, aka the thing everyone raves about. See, the movie wants Nimona the character to be a metaphor for transgender struggles in society, but instead of making Nimona trans, they made her a shapeshifter.

Why would you not just...make her trans of you want to tell a trans narrative? And you can't blame "homophobic executives" on this one because there's an explicit gay couple right there, and this movie came out on Netflix post 2020. Why do I feel like I'm back in 2016?

And to be clear, it very much is a trans narrative they're trying to push, and not just the story happening to be presented in a way that resonates with trans people. There's some bits (such as the train scene) where the trans narrative directly interferes with what's happened in the story and what we know about the characters, but they're there anyway.

They reeeeeeally want to talk about trans people without talking about trans people for some reason that absolutely boggles my mind.

I just...I don't get it. Just tell the story you say you want to tell. Why are we being so weird and indirect?

That's been my experience with a lot of the lgbt+ media I hear people raving about. I don't know why this seems especially true with specifically lgbt+ people, but a lot of the community has incredibly low standards for lgbt+ themes and representation in media.

A year or two ago, I specifically remember a looking at a list of top transgender characters in children's tv, and literally only ONE character on the list was actually trans.

In summary, I just can't get behind media that acts needlessly secretive yet weirdly proud about specifically its lgbt+ themes and characters, but that's the kind of writing I hear getting the loudest praise and the most glorifying articles.

It felt like I was in the twilight zone.

Finding like 3 people online who were like 'no, you're right, people are being weird about this' was such a relief, and I think knowing there were at least a few people who had the same take as me helped me be able to deal better.

Things are getting better as more mainstream media is incorporating actual explicit lgbt+ representation, but the the crowd that celebrates over scraps of nothing is very much still there.

It didn't bother me nearly as much as it did years ago, but I've learned to take online ravings and reccomendations with a large pinch of salt.

#hope this answered your question sufficiently and want to rambly #steven universe #nimona

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kitashiwrites · 7 years

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I'm sorry my post was really aggressive. I still stand by my point that it ISN'T fair to dismiss Mor's romantic feelings (or lack thereof) towards Az, but how I acted was really awful. You don't have to post this publicly, but I hope you know I'm very sorry. My intention wasn't to try to start drama, but just receive an explanation over WHY you still ship Moriel. My way of going about it was TERRIBLE. I know sorry is just a word, but I'M SORRY.

2/2 I didn’t send you three asks. I only sent you one? Just to clear that up.3/3 I also didn’t send more than one ask. :/

Okay Anon. While I find it extremely hard to believe because of the timing (especially because for as long as I have been on here, I have RARELY gotten asks, let alone 3 in such quick succession that are so similar), as well as the fact that you clearly don’t stand behind your words because you felt the need to do this all on anon/have to make sure we know that you still think we are wrong, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt & accept your apology.In regards to your question, why I still ship Moriel, @sarahviehmann honestly said it best in her original answer to you: “ACOMAF was written in a way that intended for them to be shipped. So those people spent a year building up their fanon and meta and so forth, only to have the rug pulled out from under them.”

(For the sake of everyone, I’m putting this under a cut. It got way long.)

I hated ACOWAR. I’ve made no secret of that. I’ve also made no secret as to WHY. I’ve been writing fic for this series for over a year, & heavily focused on ACOMAF. I started when there were literally 7 fics posted to Ao3. Basically all of my free time at home & all of my breaks at work were spent either writing fic, discussing the series/meta with people here/talking my poor friends’ ears off over dinner, or planning fic for characters I wanted to explore in POV fics like Rhys, Tamlin, & Tarquin. Hell, I still have a 10 chapter Amarantha POV pre-ACOTAR through ACOTAR fic that’s over half written at 16k that I originally wanted to try as a surprise for my readers. I read ACOMAF enough times that I honestly would have said that I knew those characters as well as my own family, knew exactly what happened in which chapters, & got many comments here & on Ao3 from people who felt I’d captured the characters correctly, so I felt pretty good about what to expect going forward.

When ACOWAR spoilers came out, absolutely nothing made sense with what we knew or had been prior established canon. Most of all in regards to Mor, Rhys, Feyre, & Lucien, but I’m going to specifically focus on Mor, since she’s at the crux of the issue at hand. In Mor’s case, we took a woman who is described in ACOMAF as “a queen who owned her body, her life, her destiny, and never apologized for it” & says to Feyre, “I once lived in a place where the opinion of others mattered. It suffocated me, nearly broke me. So you’ll understand me, Feyre, when I say that I know what you feel, and I know what they tried to do to you, and that with enough courage, you can say to hell with a reputation. You do what you love, what you need”, & in ACOWAR made her a victim in circumstances that make absolutely no sense for the character we had known up until that date. Queen of the Hewn City? She wasn’t even treated with enough respect to be prepared to go into a meeting with her abusers, let alone shown that she is in charge. The first real female friend Feyre has ever had? Regulated to acting like a jealous girlfriend around Cassian whenever Nesta got too close. And speaking of Cassian, it was pointed out in another post (I’m sorry I don’t have the link right now) that the Cassian & Mor moments read like they were originally Az & Mor moments & were hastily changed when suddenly they weren’t supposed to be even friends. Nothing in this book read like it had been edited for continuity.

There are many bloggers who are far more qualified than I am to speak on Mor’s coming out scene, & while there was a divide, there were quite a few I know & follow who felt it was poorly written/bad rep, & I agree with their reasoning. Besides the fact that I don’t believe for one dang second that no one in the Inner Circle at a minimum would have picked up on something bothering Mor in 500 years or that she wouldn’t have at least told them even if she hid everything from Keir, there is the fact of Azriel. Azriel is in love with her, no disputing it. But it is mentioned by Rhys that Az has always thought himself unworthy of her, & Mor says that she could take her clothes off in front of him & he wouldn’t do anything. Does that sound like someone who is trying to avoid him because she isn’t interested, or someone who is creepily stalking her? In the Nessian short Wings & Embers, Cassian speaks on their relationship as well: “He wasn’t stupid. He knew she and Azriel were … whatever they were. Knew Azriel had been in love with Mor from the moment she’d strutted into the war-camp five centuries ago. And Cassian had been jealous—of Mor’s shy glances at Azriel in those first few weeks, and the fact that his dearest friend and brother … was looking at someone else.”

I’m not going to rehash Wings & Embers or ACOMAF for you. But as Sarah said, it was clearly written with them as a ship in mind, & this is from the POV of a character that has known them since the beginning, not just a few months like Feyre.

Why I still ship Moriel at this point? Because I ship it in any form. I love her & Az together period, even as friends. This ship was one of the ways @illyriantremors & I bonded originally, before we found out how much else we had in common & she became as good as a biological sister to me (I call her my Threadsister for a reason), because we shipped it back in the beginning before there was really any fic for it because it was overshadowed by Feysand, Nessian, & Elucien. Moriel was our Nessian; the unconfirmed side-ship with so much potential & evidence to back it up. When Sierra met SJM at San Diego Comic Con last summer, SJM dedicated Sierra’s copy of ACOMAF to Moriel. Why the af would an author do that if they planned to destroy a ship in the next book from the beginning?

We still love Moriel because it is hard to let go of something you’ve loved that much after you’ve been strung along & then had the rug pulled out from under you with no actual basis in ACOMAF to say “oh, it was there all along”; like when rereading ACOTAR through the ACOMAF filter, as I like to say to people, & seeing the clues that were left to the deeper story for Rhys. For me, those were not in ACOMAF upon reading it again after ACOWAR. I noticed you using my tags in your defense of yourself to Sarah regarding why I wanted to ignore ACOWAR &, by your interpretation, erase Mor’s sexuality. If you had read any of my blog at all after ACOWAR, you would have read that isn’t true, but I’ll spell it out for you: I want to ignore ACOWAR & what it did to my favorite characters’ personalities/their interactions with each other. I want to forget that Mor’s agency was taken away from her & that she was regulated to a plot twist. I want to forget that Az has been made out to be a creepy stalker. I want to forget Rhys treating Mor like she would be too emotional to deal with the negotiations with Kier & Eris & so he & Az didn’t tell her. I want to forget Feyre using Lucien to make Tamlin jealous in the Spring Court while she dismantled it from within & putting him in danger. And so much more.

I personally hate the book for multiple reasons, ranging everywhere from inconsistent characterization to grammar/editing issues. But I’m stuck with the facts it gave us, which is why writing fic is so hard to even consider anymore. It made everything about the series, not just Mor & Az, something I no longer can love with the intensity I once did, & the fandom diminishes that love more & more everyday with their bullying of people for not believing exactly the way they do, which is exactly what you contributed to when you sent those asks to myself & Sierra. And honestly, I couldn’t care less what you think of me. But if you had even looked at one of Sierra’s actual written posts/answers to asks—just one—you would have seen how quiet she’s been about her love for them as a ship & how determined she’s been to not to offend people while she’s been trying to come to terms with losing something that has been a lifesaver for her, to the point she has mostly stopped contributing to the fandom at all. She posted two Moriel drabbles during her birthday week because she was inspired by the Azriel candle I got her for her birthday, & as she said to you in her response to your original message, they were her way of saying farewell to Moriel. And guess what: even though it isn’t canon, people liked them.

I view Mor as bi, & if she’s given a healthy, happy female love interest in a future installment, then awesome. I want Moriel at least as close friends because I genuinely don’t think Az (at least the one from ACOMAF that actually made sense) would begrudge her if he knew the truth. Would he be sad? Sure, but I think he would support her nonetheless, just as the rest of the Inner Circle would. But I have absolutely no faith that SJM will give Mor anything good because she can milk the drama and turmoil she’s created, & I have no desire to see the characters & ships (across the board) I have loved so much destroyed any further.

I think @my-name-is-fireheart put it perfectly in her chime in on Sarah’s post: “Also, we should keep in mind that Mor expresses sexual attraction to men, she just prefers women. How she feels about men romantically is also blurred, though it’s slightly more clear. She says she doesn’t think she loves Az romantically but she doesn’t want to try it just to see.” SJM didn’t even know how to break her own ship apart properly to fit what you suggested, which is a good chunk of why we are even having this discussion right now.

I know Moriel is no longer canon. Cazigan (Cassian/Azriel/Mor) isn’t canon either, but I still love that. I have enjoyed their interactions with each other more than anything else since they were introduced in ACOMAF. The entire Inner Circle made me so happy for their closeness & how much of a family they were. I feel for a plot twist & a couple extra Benjamin Franklins, SJM destroyed everything that made one of my favorite characters in the entire series who she was (a strong, independent woman who didn’t let her circumstances break her & showed Feyre how not to let hers break her) & made her a poor caricature of herself, & made Az something he never has been before either because SJM hastily had to make her new & poorly executed addition work.

I shouldn’t be surprised though. This is the woman who attempted to retcon Eris of all characters into a decent person. And also took away any modicum of being able to read Tamlin as the multifaceted antagonist he had been & just turned him into a completely hateful ass with no loyalty to anyone to further drive home how perfect Rhys is supposed to be (which he definitely is not in ACOWAR, & I say that as someone who loved the morally grey character of Rhys).

TL;DR I ship Mor with Az in any form, even as friends, Mor being bi is not an issue, & I have lost all respect for SJM as an author after ACOWAR for giving us a poorly written/poorly edited product after the anticipation/hype this book had. Make of that what you will; I don’t care. I’m out of effs to give, & your ask & the other Az one I received, no matter who it was from or what your intentions were, pretty much tipped the scale in favor of me wanting to step back even further & have nothing to do with this fandom ever again.

I would ask that next time you think you have a problem with someone (because I doubt Sierra & I will be the last people you do this to), please think about how it comes across & think about your target. Your original ask was terribly hateful, & there is no amount of apology that can take that hurt away. And you would be amazed how far a little kindness & grace when asking a question instead of an accusatory message can go.

This explanation is more than you probably bargained for when you started this yesterday, but that’s the last I’ll say on any of this.

#kitashianswers #Anon Answers #Moriel #Mor deserved better #Az deserved better #anti-SJM #anti-acowar #long post #sorry to my followers #discourse & meta aren't my thing #but seriously #sending hateful messages to people is never the answer #especially on anon

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