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kikithedeceiver · 5 years

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I have read over these 6 asks over and over.

And dear anon. As much as you speak you are not an anti...

...you defend the antis’ actions.

There are many reasons I say you antis have ruined the fandom and scared everyone else to the point they’re scared to even contribute anything. And you may not have contributed to these actions, defending them makes you just as bad. Asking us to understand you while trying to not understand shipper’s reasons to stop them is just one-sided too.

I did not want to tag this in the ‘Kagepro’ and ‘Kagerou Project’ tags, but it’s getting worse since after these asks came in.

Shall we?

1. The Problematic ships

1.1. KanoKido is incest, so it's problematic

Kano and Kido who grew up together since childhood, lived in an orphanage together with Seto before they got foster cared by the Tateyama’s. They’re not adopted (a thing Yen Press did wrong in their official translation of the 5th novel), and they never took the Tateyama’s family name (more explanation here).

Kano and Kido are not blood related.

Kano and Kido did not change their surnames to Tateyama.

So they’re not officially siblings.

So it’s not incest.

Even in the guide, instead of siblings, they’re referred as childhood friends.

That’s why shippers ship KanoKido to begin with. We see them as childhood friends who grew up to have feelings for each other. At least for Kano, it was revealed he had feelings for Kido in the final light novel and manga.

However, this does not mean we’re telling the antis to stop seeing them as siblings. You guys see them as siblings. Okay, fine. It’s your choice. Ship them with someone else? Go for it.

However, incest is between those who are blood-related and/or share the same surname. Since KanoKido doesn’t have either of those two, then slapping in the word ‘incest’ is incorrect.

We are not saying you are not allowed to see them as siblings who grew up together. We’re just saying just because you guys see them - headcanon them as having more sibling relationship due to the obscured boundaries of them being siblings does not mean it is canonically incest to begin with. Yes, there are different cultures, but there is also respecting other cultures point of view on the fictional characters. And that the series is set in Japan, not where your culture is from. Therefore, attacking shippers on shipping them just because we don’t share your view is not only an immature, but hurtful move.

In fact. I want to mention something on the definition of incest.

As you can see, it means anything sexual. And in our case right now, ‘sexual acts between siblings’.

Now, let’s say the antis sees KanoKido as siblings. Okay?

Then how, is this fanart I requested from an artist and used on my Tumblr blog seen as sexual? This is Kano petting Kido with kitty ears and tail. Is petting head considered sexual now? Can antis not just see it as Kano teasing Kido’s kitty ears and tail? Can antis not see it as what they all claim to be, a sibling teasingly petting their sibling’s kitty ears and tail?

Antis made the claim of seeing Kano and Kido as siblings, however they feel revolted from a fanart of the two together like this, as if this looks sexual. No kissing or whatever. Just Kano teasingly pet Kido’s kitty features, that can be interpreted as a sibling teasing his sibling’s features she’s embarrassed over if the antis choose to.

But no, the antis do not have the ability to see them as siblings, despite their claim. They are not able to do that with any fanart with Kano and Kido together, nor with any manga panel and frames with Kano and Kido together..

In my honest opinion, I believe the antis are just allergic to seeing Kano and Kido together in anything, even when they are just standing together. With symptoms of them being nasty in the fandom and hurt others with no care.

I have more to say about the antis, but I will leave it for later. Moving on.1.2. HibiMomo is paedophilia, so it’s problematic

Let's remind ourselves what the word paedophilia is, shall we?

1.2. HibiMomo is paedophilia, so it’s problematic

Let's remind ourselves what the word paedophilia is, shall we?

If you all remember correctly...

Momo is 16. She's not an adult.

Hibiya is 12. He's not an adult.

Japan's current law for age of adulthood is 20 (will be lowered to 18 in the future...oh look), they're not 20 nor 18 yet so none of them are adults.

So how is this paedophilia? How is HibiMomo considered paedophilia when both of them are under the age of being an adult?

Unless the antis are grossed out on age gaps, fair enough. But first of all, slapping the word 'paedophilia' just because of age gap between two children who are not adults is, how should I say it, idiotic. As the word have lost a lot of meaning when it is always misused because of the antis’ own discomfort without trying to think about the true meaning and the real reason of the discomfort.

Why do you hear people say they sick of antis screaming about problematic ships? Because of the misuse of the word 'paedophilia.' And I should have mentioned earlier, ‘incest’ as well.

Furthermore, the issue with age gaps. Okay, I get it. Hibiya is younger than Momo. Boy younger than girl. Real weird for them to be dating. I get told a lot on dating a guy older than me by my ma as I grew up.

However, here’s the thing. 4 years age gap is not that much of a difference big difference. Your parents, grandparents, teacher's partner, the couple living next door, and the married person walking down the street will have age gaps with their loved ones, and possibly way bigger than just 4 years anyway. 4 years apart when it’s between adults are not an uncommon thing. As for the guy younger than the girl. Well I also know there are girls who married guys younger than them. I question it a bit, but it’s not bothering me, I’m not them. Their choice and life. And hey, they get along and really love each other! Good for them!

So the point is, I believe the HibiMomo shippers are not making Hibiya and Momo full on dating at the age of 12 & 16 respectively. Because okay, if they’re kissing already, then it’s a bit over my limit for them already. And I don’t see them doing that with Hibiya still 12. But Hibiya and Momo can be seen holding hands and hugging each other, which can be seen as a platonic romance, just them with a close relationship, with Momo leading Hibiya the way through the big city and cheer him up. And that’s kinda cute. I believe the shippers are more focused on the developing friendship and support since Hibiya and Momo just met (like how Momo tries to cheer up Hibiya in Otsukimi Recital), then possibly start developing relationships once Hibiya is older, with both he and Momo as adults. Something like in this anthology.

The point is, yes, there are age gaps between a 12 year old boy and a 16 year old girl, but it’s not paedophillia when both of them are not even adults. The real discomfort is age gaps, with the word ‘paedophillia’ misused constantly. But the shippers see them more at the hand holding and hugging stage as Hibiya and Momo get to know and help each other. Nothing more that can be considered inappropriate.

So with HibiMomo shippers shipping them platonically while the characters are 12 &16, and shipping them romantically when they’re both legally adults, that’s not promoting paedophillia.

If it is, then dating someone who has an age gap and both not being legally adult can be considered paedophillia.

No school dates, everyone.

1.3. Additional notes – the double standards Other ships are just as problematic

I’ll be honest here. What I wanted to write is how the antis have double standards on the whole ‘incest’ and ‘paedophillia’ argument. I was going to mention other ships, mainly on any ship to do with Ayano and the Mekakushi Trio, but mainly on SetoMary because by antis’ logic, SetoMary should also be incest (Mary taken in by the Tateyamas in Manga Route 2) and paedophillia (Mary is a 140 year old medusa).

But just before I was going to post this, the antis actually did start dragging SetoMary into this.

Since SetoMary is also targeted by the antis, I’m afraid the 3/5 main ships in Kagerou Project have now gone down to something like this...

KanoKido, SetoMary, HibiMomo, KonoEne, ShinAya

The main ships the fandom can now only ship and enjoy is now down to 2/5 of the main ships (excluding all other ships like KidoMomo, MomoMary, KanoAya, KanoShin, etc). At this point, the fandom have many things to be careful about because how much the antis are screaming at everyone on how to enjoy things.

If the fandoms have so many antis make rules on ships they don’t like, then there’s nothing to enjoy in the fandom as it limits creativity, especially there’s hostility from antis everywhere in the fandom. Therefore, oppression as well.

2. Types of antis present

And since I talked about what the antis had done, I shall list other things antis do that can be considered oppressing other fans to draw and contribute to anything. With this, I shall also show you evidence I was able to gather with the help of my friends who are not as involved in fandom, but agree the antis are just toxic. There are censored out URLs because some of these happened in the past, and honestly, I don’t want those reading this to attack the antis with the toxicity the antis do to shippers.

2.1. KiKi The Hettie

This happened last year during January. Just last year. 2018. And all these attacks, honestly, it still annoys me with how much happened back then and is still happening in the fandom. KanoKido tag was constantly spammed with hate, unseen unless you’re blocked, or blocked by the antis, but that just makes them continue their vigilant hate spreading to make everyone stop posting KanoKido.

Getting anon hate. Having posts mock me and laughed off as a joke. And that it was considered harmless.

So honestly, I cannot believe the words “antis mean no harm.”

Especially this happened over a year ago, and this next thing happened recentlyin January.

2.2. Emy trying to stop all this shipping discourse

Emy, a Kagepro fanartist who is honestly a God send with her making “Ask the Kagepro characters” and taking in requests from askers. She keeps the Kagepro community alive with her drawing fanarts from the asks as well, which is rare to see. Just one year after that “KiKi the Hettie” thing happened, she was tired of the discourse going around. So she made a post to explain why it’s okay to have different opinions on shipping something, but not to be toxic over it

...however...

Let’s just say, there’s no hope for the Kagepro fandom at this point with how much she was attacked when she tried to explain why it’s okay to ship the ships like KanoKido and HibiMomo, while still okay to ship other things. Antis explain themselves, and we understand and not telling them to stop shipping what their shipping. Instead just at least know there are KanoKido and HibiMomo shippers out there, and not full on attack them over their onesided beliefs and headcanons they considered to be completely correct.

2.3. Mockery in posts

Someone posted official Kagepro art by Sidu. Imagine the fans joy to reblog them, only when they found this post, they see this tag. With this, the OP is scaring the fans away to "fuck off and die.” And no, this cannot be brushed off as “antis meant no harm.” Telling someone to die is very offensive, intimidating to the point threatening them to not upset the antis with what they ship.

This is not just telling shippers to go away.

This is threatening the shippers on how to behave in the fandom and isolate them out if the shippers dare to do anything that supports their ship. And that the shippers have no right to like an official art.

And other than posts on official art, there’s also posts posting these in the ship’s tag.

Like I said earlier, the only way to not see these kinds of posts in the ship’s tag is either to be blocked, or blocking the by the antis. But when shippers go into the ships tag (or just searching), they probably see a post like if the shipper and the anti didn’t block each other.

If posts like this shippers off like this, this is just mocking them really. Make them feel wrong to like a ship because of an antis’ belief despite it is shown Kano liking Kido that way. And again, this makes the shippers be care of not totick off the antis just to keep themselves safe.

And it’s sickening how the antis do this and sees it as no harm. Honestly, it’s not funny.

There are more of these, but I’m not filling this replies with all the things antis posted.

2.4. Antis claiming to be healthy

Literally. Antis do that.

If it’s so problematic, honestly, why are the antis still here? I know anyone can have headcanons, however KanoKido shippers, along with HibiMomo shippers, based their shippy feeling from what Jin provided. But calling what Jin did as problematic and disgusting, after he worked so hard and became homeless at one point, yet continued to provide Kagepro contents for the fandom, this is the thanks Jin gets.

Furthermore, other than this sort of asks. There’s this posts.

Antis calling themselves Jin. Calling people freaks.

And by calling out ‘anti-antis’, who’s trying to stop their toxic behaviour, just proves how much they do not welcome anyone else in the fandom unless they share the same belief as them. Anything we do is against them, so it is wrong in the antis’ eyes.

By telling the fandom only who is allowed, with those who oppose the antis should leave, that shows what the antis are doing. Controlling the fandom to their liking.

Oppressing.

2.5. Full on attacking on someone they blocked already

If any of you guys reading this had seen what’s been happening the past few days...

Openly saying they’re going to harass me unless I block them. Even though they blocked me.

By blocking me, they should have no other reasons to contact me.

And knowing this person don’t like KanoKido, and attacked Emy (yes, same person. For some reason they deleted their first blog), I have no reason to talk to them anyway. Instead, I wanted to enjoy our own contents without seeing any toxicity from the antis, and not be harassed. Not going out of my way to harass people in asks or making insulting posts to people whom I don’t like.

Unlike this person, who had to harass me for fun.

No one finds you funny, really.

And before everyone here are saying “KiKi! You should have block them!” Now listen, why should I block someone when they blocked me already. And even if they didn’t block me before then, they should know how to block me already since they can navigate through Tumblr to send me an ask. I am not their online babysitter to make their life easier. I am not anyone’s online babysitter. Just want to go online and enjoy my content in peace. This anti have their own methods to make their life on Tumblr easy as well. I would have never seen whatever they posted anyway since they blocked me.

They blocked me? I can’t see what they posted and they also can’t see what I posted. Okay, sounds good to me. I’m not going to stalk them. Moving on.

Furthermore, acting friendly with me with ‘please’ to block them, I honestly don’t comply to someone who was rude to me, my friends and shouting insulting things to us shippers in the first place. It would be like helping a bully after they made my friends and I miserable, yet they like “Yeah do this for me please?” And it is especially true when they’re harassing me after I said no.

No. Just no.

Also, since they reblogged my stuff relating to them, along with them sending me asks not just once, twice, but thrice. They’re just a cyberbully who find it fun to harass me.

2.6. Rule implementing

I mentioned this earlier with the problem with shipping. But other than antis making posts and asks to attack shippers, there is also another thing the antis seems to be doing to oppress the fandom. I’ve been here for a while, and I notice Kagepro event blogs having these rules like “no incest/ paedophilia ships”, “incest/paedophilia shippers don’t interact”, etc.

I understand if the antis don’t like the ships, but that is just scaring the fans away, making them not welcomed in not only the fandom, and in the ship. This includes past Kagepro Secret Santas events (saw one or two of those), and also the current Kagepro Zine, making the biggest double standard move I have ever seen.

From reading this, it is very obvious what kind of people are running the Zine. An event to express love for the Kagepro series, only to be told no ‘romantic relationship,’ and then instantly told exactly what they didn’t want to begin with.

“Not focused on the romantic relationship.” Oh okay.

“May see some more popular couples show up!” ...So yes to ships or...?

“We will not be allowing incestuous or pedophilic ships on our zine.” ...Oh.

Then what is it? No romantic ships at all?

Or yes to romantic ships, but no incestuous or pedophilic ships?

Because of these rules that appear in Tumblr blogs, this also contributes to why the fandom who wants to draw something feels like they’re being oppressed to the point too scared of doing anything for the fandom anymore.

Along with the posts and asks, these rules in Kagepro events just shuns everyone else away while the antis feels right about what they are doing without reasons.

3. Conclusion

In all honesty, I want to understand why the antis are still here. Jin made something shippable, but here the antis are, being all toxic and stopping the fans on how to contribute to the fandom. Calling Jin making a disgusting and problematic ship and all. And making all these posts for ‘lolz’ just because it seemed right to them.

So if Jin was so problematic, why stay here and still love Kagerou Project when it clearly supports incest/paedophillia ship?

Kano have feelings for Kido romantically. It happened. Yet the antis choose to ignore it for their own sake and continue to harass everyone else who are actually happy for this clarification. Making posts to tell shippers off. Attack posts on ships the antis didn’t like. And making rules on who could participate in an event or not.

If it’s so bad, why did the antis stay? It’s not healthy to stay in a fandom that is ‘so bad’ to begin with, it just makes the person miserable. Unless antis just not only stay to be toxic, they stay and want others to suffer because they’re miserable.

That’s sickening.

The fandom is sickening.

And with how much this is happening, to the antis, and the anon who sent the 6 asks, this is not considered oppression.

Anon, if you are still reading this and still believe " We (antis) aren’t coming for anyone by any means," I want you to revaluate all that was said and consider did you guys really didn’t oppress anyone.

With the mocking posts.

Attacking posts.

Sending harassing asks.

Making rules on events that should have been fun.

All this done...

...Over fictional characters.

That is the environment the antis had made in the fandom.

A ship with characters that can be seen as siblings or having romantic relationships.

And on a ship with characters considered paedophilia, even though both characters are not adults.

So please don't say things like "We (antis) aren’t coming for anyone by any means."

Don’t defend their actions anymore.

Especially when they feel no guilt over what they did.

#discourse #kagepro fandom #antis #Anonymous #how can you say they mean no harm and not coming for anyone #kagerou project #kagepro

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ganymedesclock · 7 years

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have you heard of the theory that vld will include lotor and sincline? what do you think? it could explain the armour and weapon differences for the webloom galra and the one in the fighting ring.

I haven’t, but that’s... an interesting idea. I suppose the theory would be that the one in the arena is Lotor (he’s making a very public appearance and he’s the one Haggar sent for, also that arena clip was billed as “Prince Lotor revealed” even though it was an April Fool’s joke I don’t know if they’d go so deep as “ha ha, you thought that was Lotor”) and then that the one Keith encountered in the Weblum would be Sincline?

It definitely intrigues me, especially if we are going off the idea that no one person is going to replace Shiro as Black Paladin but Keith and Lance will come to operate more closely as co-leader figures- since that was a bit of the dynamic they had in Force- because it’d set up a perfect counterpart to that if Lotor and Sincline operate as a team.

Especially because the figure in the arena is depicted with a sword nearby, and Weblum Galra uses a gun- one is Keith’s signature weapon, one is Lance’s.

I think there’s some holes that would make me hesitant to leap on this as my main theory: mostly, if Zarkon has two children, did Haggar only send for Lotor because he’s the elder sibling, or is Sincline considered undesirable in some way and thus even more overlooked? I’d mostly just hesitate until I feel like we have more evidence that there’s a royal heir besides Lotor, even if one of them might be older

If it is the case, though, I really doubt Sincline will resemble too much of his GoLion self considering GoLion’s overall tone is a very far cry from VLD’s, but I think it could be used to explore a very interesting dynamic- if maybe Lotor is the incredibly charismatic “face” of the two of them while Sincline is inclined to be quiet and operate from the shadows. After all, a major thing between WG and Lotor is that just from the voiceover, it seems like Lotor has quite a way with words- while WG seems very disinclined to speaking, even when other parts of their body language aren’t particularly subtle.

It also might put a different, very interesting spin on the obscuring helmets we see both of them wearing- if they might have, say, different faces, but both are about the same height, which is unusual for a galra, the helmets facilitate a way they could potentially switch places without arousing too much suspicion. And either way, I’d find it a lot more likely for Lotor than for Zarkon, since, I mean, so far the most solid thing we have on Lotor’s character is that he talks up teamwork and solidarity a lot more than Zarkon ever did.

(Would also put an interesting spin on how easily WG fell into working with and fighting back-to-back with Keith, who is a sword-wielder)

...Honestly I like this theory the more I mull it over. It’s the main take on “WG isn’t Lotor” that I can really get behind. I’ve been figuring for a while, it’s likely that Lotor will bring his own allies with him rather than just falling into Zarkon’s place in his dynamic with Haggar. Furthermore, if Sincline is relatively unforeshadowed, it could make for a very nasty shock the first time the team confronts Lotor and think they have him alone and then someone else starts shooting at them.

It’d really reinforce the idea of Lotor potentially being dangerous as an adversary because he’s more similar to the paladins- because Zarkon and Haggar are both nightmares to fight but with little exception, they fight alone, even though they have an entire space empire under them. Zarkon’s forces move through the main channels and very publicly because they are the main channel.

If the team is expecting Zarkon 2.0 and is suddenly hit by someone who is a much bigger fan of teamwork, unorthodox maneuvers, and subterfuge, that’s going to match perfectly with the assertion that Lotor is not his father. And again- a lot of Lotor’s speech that stands out to me is his very dedicated use of “our”. I think he only really uses “my” once- “my father”. A lot of it- promising to expand the empire, promising to crush its enemies- is kind of what we’d expect because whether Lotor is more of a Zuko figure or just a through-and-through villain, either way, he’s not going to be buddy-buddy with the team, and, if we’re taking this theory into account, neither is Sincline, who doesn’t have any qualms working with Keith but also doesn’t have qualms threatening to shoot him barely seconds later.

Giving Lotor a sibling would hardly be the most radical shift they’ve made to a character’s situation. I mean, in DotU Allura mentions being alone with the mice as really her only friends, and in GoLion, Princess Fala didn’t even know her father because she was raised by Raible (Coran’s counterpart) exclusively after the fall of Altea- in VLD, Allura was very close with both her father and Coran, was an adult when Altea was destroyed, and only met the mice afterwards.

...Also, purely selfish here, but, Mute Lotor theory could live again in the idea of maybe it’s Sincline who can’t vocalize, which would mean that if they are a Lance and Keith parallel, they’d be opposites- Lotor the sword-wielder, is the energetic social butterfly while Sincline the marksman is more introverted and quiet.

#voltron legendary defender #vld #Lotor #let's call this the #lotor twin theory #readmore #Anonymous

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