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spartytoon · 5 years

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In which Sparty finally jots down her thoughts on Avengers: Endgame. Spoiler free TL:DR: I liked it overall, but have some caveats. Long read, spoilers below.

ENDGAME THOUGHTS

THE GOOD:

Well used fandom in-jokes. E.G. Cap checking out his own ass (“That IS Americas ass”).

Scott Lang in general.

Tony Stark being adorable with his daughter.

Cap using Mjolnir.

Thor’s reaction to Cap using Mjolnir (“I KNEW IT!”)

Rocket Raccoon in general.

Nebula in general.

Thor having a good talk with his mom.

Frigga immediately recognizing Thor as a time traveler.

When everybody showed up for the final battle.

Banner sharing his tacos with Scott.

2012!Loki being a lil’ shit.

2012!Thor using Mjolnir as a defibrillator.

“Lunch, then back to Asgard.”

2014!Gamora: That’s the guy?

Nebula: Yes. It was either him, or a tree.

I’ve been saying for a year that Guardians 3 and Thor 4 could be the same movie, and that looks like it is very much happening. Awwww yiss.

THE BAD: Oh boy. I’m going to keep this to continuity in-universe rules type stuff because that’s where the objective issues are.

It has been long established that one must be obscenely powerful to so much as TOUCH an infinity stone (except for the reality stone (it touches yooooouuuu), and the soul stone probably has some unique rules), much less USE one, but the Avengers were all barehanding the damn things without any issues.

Power levels are meaningless. I knew they were going to nerf their really powerful characters (Carol, Thor and Wanda), but I did not expect them to do it to this extent.

- Carol shows up for the final battle, destroys Thanos’ ship BY HERSELF, but is unable to blow 2014!Thanos to smithereens. SURE.

- It was established in Infinity War that Wanda could hold off Thanos with five stones in the gauntlet, yet she could not obliterate 2014!Thanos with no gauntlet. SUUUURE.

- Also in Infinity War it was shown that with the aid of Stormbreaker (which enhances his powers) Thor could stand toe to toe with Thanos with ALL the infinity stones, but he couldn’t beat 2014!Thanos. SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE.

- At the end of the day, the final outcome of Iron Man sacrificing himself to save everyone was very, very contrived. Nerfing their really powerful characters was literally the only way to make that happen. Hell, 2014!Thanos without the gauntlet should have been manageable for Thor, Cap and Iron Man. There was really no reason they couldn’t take him down now that they were actually working as a team.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not unhappy with Iron Man sacrificing himself (very bittersweet), I just wish they’d had a more coherent way to get to that point. Like, maybe instead of Thanos coming down to draw them out personally, he sends his army down so that everyone has to fight their way to him, and Iron Man is the only one who manages to get close enough to do anything. We know the suit is strong/advanced enough to fight Thanos, but maybe not defeat him. And if he gets ahold of the gauntlet, well you know how that ends.

Moving on! They went on a long tirade about the rules of time travel, then proceeded to screw up the space time continuum anyway, and spark off several alternate realities (they did announce a “what ifs” series for Disney+ so that’s probably deliberately sloppy *eye roll*). The Sorcerer Supreme is probably Disappointed, But Not Surprised.

Speaking of, they created a glaring plot hole. Thanos allegedly destroyed the infinity stones after he was done using them. But when they went back in time to collect the stones from the past, the Sorcerer Supreme explained to Banner that reality itself was based around those stones, removing one could potentially cause all sorts of chaos, not just alternate timelines.

But Thanos DESTROYED the stones. Destroyed them. The Sorcerer Supereme apparently knew this, and didn’t seem phased by the news. Possibly because A, she knows something we don’t, or B, they already forgot why they had the Avengers go back in time in the first place. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. Personally, I don’t think the stones can actually be destroyed. It was likely that when Thanos “destroyed” the stones he actually just scattered them again, he just didn’t know it. So he wasn’t lying, he was just ignorant. If THAT’s the case, the Sorcerer Supreme not being worried about the stones being destroyed would make sense, because she probably knew the stones COULDN’T be destroyed, but finding them again could take eons, so she did ultimately go along with the Avengers time heist.

Endgame ultimately had a lot of the same problems as The Last Jedi: in an effort to be unpredictable, shocking and have things Not Go As Planned, they had to ignore the internal logic of the universe to varying degrees. You can’t spend 20 movies establishing how a universe works only to throw all the rules away as soon as it becomes inconvenient. You can certainly change things up, but there has to be a reason for it. And that reason has to make sense. None of this made sense. That’s sloppy writing at best, and an insult at worst.

THE WTF:

Sacrificing Natasha was sadly par for the course. I had hoped that by sacrificing herself there would be some sort of loophole wherein she wasn’t killed/sucked into the soul stone, buuuuut nope. I’m guessing the “sacrifice something you love” thing is probably a big fat lie, because Natasha and Clint were fighting over who got to be sacrificed, and Clint clearly didn’t WANT to sacrifice Natasha and… it just makes no sense. The Soul stone has a price. That price is a soul. Whoever’s left standing (or dangling near) the top of the cliff gets the stone. No emotional attachment necessary.

As a friend pointed out… ANT MAN DIDN’T HAVE ANY ANTS! He should have done the time heist with ants. It would have gone much smoother. Also he could have summoned hordes of ants to attack 2014!Thanos, which would have been horrifying, but a perfect “Welcome to Earth” moment. And hell, who knows how a titan reacts to ant bites. Might be deathly allergic, for all we know.

Aside from Nebula, Natasha, and arguably Carol, all of the female superhero’s basically just had cameos. I know they had a lot of characters to juggle, but their final battle stuff was another contrived moment.

Where did Brunhilde (Valkyrie) get her Pegasus? Are they summoning creatures? Is there a dimension somewhere where they hang out? How did they have time to go there and get a pegasus that was conveniently battle trained and ready? Are they sentient?

What was Spider-man swinging on? There was barely anything for him to swing on. Yet, there was swinging.

Why didn’t Thor use his lightning more? We know he can use it. He knows he can use it. He can use it with pinpoint accuracy so it isn’t like it was a huge liability in a crowded battlefield. But he barely used it. Cap used it more than he did, and Cap was just winging it. And it was effective against Thanos so like… why didn’t they double team lightning bros… oh right. That would have worked. NERFED SO HARD. WTF was up with Clint? Was he going after people who were still causing problems after the snap? What was he doing? Why was Nat just okay with him throwing a homicidal temper tantrum? Professor Hulk in the uncanny valley. I’m with Valkyrie, one or the other. Both is weird. THOR:

I know a lot of people felt that what they did to Thor was one big fat joke. I have to respectfully disagree, insomuch that not taking care of yourself when you fall into a deep depression is A Thing. It’s a sad thing. And the humor of the situation was – for me – part Thor saying or doing something genuinely funny, and partly just plain awkward. Like laughing at Peter B. Parker crying in the shower in Spider-man: Into the Spider-Verse. It’s funny because it’s sad. We laugh because we don’t know what else to do. I’ll circle back around to Peter B. Parker in a minute. I would like to point out that Thor crashing, and crashing hard actually makes a lot of sense. It’s one of the few parts of the movie that DOES make sense. Consider Infinity War.

Thanos’ timing was probably deliberate. Was he thinking emotional devastation when he attacked the Statesman? Maybe. He was certainly thinking tactical advantage. Any emotional fallout was probably just a bonus. Finish off your biggest threat (what’s left of Asgard – I’m of the mind that Thanos was waiting around for Odin to croak), take out the most powerful player among them while he’s at a huge disadvantage (probably not a good idea to use your cool lightning powers on a big ship full of sensitive electronics), and as a bonus, emotionally break said powerful player at the same time. I don’t know if Thanos expected Thor to survive, but he wasn’t terribly surprised to see him at the end of Infinity War. Asgardians are notoriously durable, after all. And Thor especially so.

So, then what happens with Thor? Well he’s rescued, and he does everything he can to stay positive. He cracks jokes, he sympathies with Gamora, he’s a cheerleader for Etiri, and he does it all while he’s dying inside. He uses humor to keep himself together, but it’s clear he’s hurting BAD. He’s been in charge for maybe a couple of days and already ANOTHER huge disaster has befallen his people, and it’s only going to get worse if he doesn’t get his ass out there to put a stop to it. When Thor confronts Thanos in Wakanda, he initially does the right thing. The head is a much harder target to hit from a distance, so aiming for his chest was actually smart. He stopped Thanos in his tracks, brought him to his knees with that blow.

His real mistake was stopping to chat. I remember sitting in the theater watching Infinity War when Thor lands and does NOT immediately proceed to finish Thanos off. I believe my thoughts were “No - Thor… Thor, sweetie, just finish him off don’t stop to – aw shit.”

That mistake, that moment of weakness wherein he let his anger, and pain take over his better judgment is what cost half the universe. And he knows it. He knows it more than anyone else. He knows how powerful he is, he knows what he’s capable of. Everyone in Wakanda gave it their all. Tony, Spidey, Strange and the Guardians came close too, and Quill definitely fucked up there as well, but none of them are 1500 year old gods. They don’t have lightning running through their veins, they can’t fight for days on end without rest, they aren’t one man armies, they weren’t raised to be king and protector of the 9 realms, they didn’t have that burden placed on their shoulders. They aren’t anywhere near Thor’s level. They’re mortal. They make mistakes. They lose. Thor is far from perfect, but with the power he possess, the stakes are higher, there’s much more expected of him. And he fucked it up.

That’s not something someone simply recovers from. Not without help. And this is where there’s a big difference between Peter B. Parker and Thor becomes clear (well, aside from scale). Peter B. Parker is going through a rough patch. He’s gained a bit of weight. It is (gently) played for laughs. But he has support. All of the other spider-people are there for him. Miles does a great job of getting him to wake up, to realize he’s gotta face his fears, and take that leap of faith. Thor, apparently, didn’t get that. Not until the time heist and he gets to talk to his mom.

As a proud member of #TeamThorNeedsAHug, I must ask… where were the rest of the Avengers? Too busy to check in on Thor? Or did they only contact him if they needed him for something? Did they brush him off, and assume he’d get better on his own? Were they so wrapped up in their own pain they just couldn’t reach out to anyone else? Cap had support group, did he not invite Thor? Or did he expect Thor to host support groups as well?

All they know is that they failed. But they’re not thinking about it from Thor’s context, they’re thinking about it from a human context. The human context is limited, fleeting.

So, Thor falls by the wayside. Any cries for help are brushed off. They get annoyed with him. They certainly got annoyed with him in Endgame. They stop keeping in touch with him.

The Avengers are pretty shitty friends.

This is why I am glad Thor is going off with the Guardians of the Galaxy for a while. The Guardians are weird, and they yell at each other a lot, and they fight, but at the end of the day, they’re a family. Thor is in far better company. Also it will be HILARIOUS.

That said: THINGS I WANT TO HAPPEN IN GUARDIANS 3 (in no particular order):

Quill spends a little time on Earth and reconnects with his grandpa.

The Guardians work their magic and help Thor work through his depression and guilt.

A meta conversation pondering the power disparity between 5 years ago/current Thanos, and 2014 Thanos, and why Thor, Carol and Wanda (or Thor, Cap and Tony, for that matter) could not smush him like a bug while he was Infinity Gauntlet-less.

They discover that the infinity stones can’t actually be destroyed, Thanos just scattered them when he thought he had destroyed them, and there may be a way to get Gamora out of the soul stone.

They get Gamora out of the soul stone.

Mark Hamill is Space Hobo Supreme*

Thor becomes a Space Hobo and learns the ways of the Space Hobo from Mark Hamill

Thor goes sifting through Quills music collection at some point and asks if he has any Florence + The Machine.

We find out Rocket invited Thor to tag along with the Guardians figuring he needed a stable family environment, and time away from everything to recover.

Rocket is highly protective and supportive of Thor (much to Quills chagrin).

Awkward Drax Hugs (That Thor is totally down for)

Groot and Thor play video games.

Thor zaps himself back to being ripped for the sole purpose of annoying Quill.

Dance off.

Mantis does something really freaking cool.

Air guitar battle (because Guitar Hero exists, Thor plays video games now, and why the fuck not)

Nebula continues to soften up.

They bump into Loki in the least likely of places. A laundromat or something equally mundane.

* Back around the time The Last Jedi came out, Mark Hamill was joking around on Twitter (as he often does), that he was out of work, and needed a new job. James Gunn (possibly jokingly, possibly seriously) mentioned possibly having something for him to do in Guardians 3. This apparently, led into brunch, and a lot of unrelated silliness (Guardians of the 99!). I very much hope that Mark Hamill will be in Guardians 3 as a friendly Space Hobo.

#avengers: endgame spoiers #endgame spoilers #thor spoilers #guardians of the galaxy spoilers

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