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crownlessliestheking · 10 months

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your feanolo post made me start thinking about the parallels between wwx and feanor and like. both these absolutely transgressive geniuses who burn so bright and come crashing down so hard, leaving behind no answers and absolutely no catharsis for everyone they loved. and lwj gets wwx back but fingolfin's left with nothing but the gravitational well that is feanor's absence.

Literally had to wait until I was at my laptop to answer this, because you are so right and so big-brained for this, anon, and I have so much to say, starting with: Yes absolutely!! And they're both incredibly likable as well, in their own ways; they have the charisma, they draw people in, and they meet terrible ends in part due to their own inventions and choices, in part due to the world they're in. I think their tragic arcs (ie, pre-timeskip for WWX) are very, very similar and quite neatly paralleled, going from the brilliant golden child, the unconventional genius who then makes Useful, Wonderful things, that people slowly begin to turn against. Obviously society itself plays a larger role in this for Wei Wuxian than it does for Feanor, but I think the exile moments, the isolation, how they're marked by a loss no one can really understand...it all hits, man. Even when they're happy, it's...fleeting. And you're SO fucking right about that lack of catharsis, especially for LWJ and Fingolfin -- the person they love has burnt themselves up and out, left a legacy of darkness, and they have to move on and keep living and be, well. Good. A bastion of light in their own right. (There is something there about the Hanguang-jun light-bearer thing also but, y'know. Crunch crunch.)

And you outline the WWXX/Feanor stuff really well, especially re: archetypes, but. The LWJ and Fingolfin stuff that this ask spurred is bonkers, a little. Just the concept of the perfectly behaved second son with immense expectations on their shoulders, bearing it well, despite their own fucked up families? Specifically their fathers? Iirc (from the show, mostly) we don't really know a ton about LWJ's parental situation, only that his mother was extremely unhappy and died when he was young, was in seclusion, and then his father entered seclusion like...right after that. But it's the distance, the trauma, the knowledge that he has to be perfect because of his parents, mm. I think that's very Fingolfin, because I...kind of really like when there's genuinely something for Feanor to be jealous of. It's not even just that Fingolfin is polite and politically skilled, groomed as a prince rather than an outright heir; it's not just that Fingolfin and Feanor are BOTH very aware of what Fingolfin's birth represents, symbolically, and his role to play (part reassurance, part unifier, part being straight up stable as an option, a safe bet). But...Feanor can't be like that. He's never going to not be too much, and while he's actively in some ways chosen to do that much, much louder than he needs to (to spite Indis, to say look, here I am, I am worth my mother's life, more than, even), he could simply just never do what Fingolfin does, which is sit there and take it and look utterly unaffected, even if he is. Feanor knows exactly who he is and the conflict for the household that he represents, and Fingolfin knows the exact same thing about himself, only he has to smooth it over. He can't not. He loves his brother (and at first I think they Do kind of get along, at least until Fingolfin gets older, looks like Finwe, acts, perhaps, more like Finwe and a little like Indis), and he understands the importance of rules and appearances in a way that Feanor does not. (As a side note, I think this is why Maedhros abdicates specifically to Fingolfin -- in Beleriand, Fingolfin is playing the role that he has been doing behind the scenes and failing at for a very long time, training for this reunification --, and it feeds a lot into my headcanons about where, exactly, Maedhros learned his politics from. Imo, his uncle, and imo, they understand each other perfectly). Anyway, that's very LWJ of him -- as is the deep fucking torrent of emotion this elf has going on right under the hood, exemplified best I think in how he dies.

Sorry for the 2 paragraphs of character meta, but not that sorry.

#fingolfin #feanor #kiiiind of feanolo #but mostly character meta #silm meta

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jiangwanyinscatmom · 3 years

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[1/?] Sorry for venting. I just saw some bad takes that gave me a lot of feelings. Personally, JC stresses me out every time he comes on screen, but I don't mind it when JC fans say fan-typical things like how they like JC because he wears purple, or is grumpy, or they think he's hot, or that they ship x*ch*ng because the cql actors have nice jawlines. They're harmless, fun takes, and while I don't agree with some of them, I see where they're coming from

Hello there anon, vent away as that is what my blog is open for as I love/hate on Jiang Cheng as he is in the plot, as well as all of my beef with what has been done to him for the EN side of the fanbase! I am more than fine listening and engaging with the unsavory "unpopular" discussions of his canon behavior and this goes for anyone of course that needs an open play area. I'll try to engage with what you have sent point by point as succinctly as I can.

[2/?] (some of these are obviously crack, and I am a fan of a few problematic faves). But then there are stans that just have to put other characters down to make JC look good. Like, I think some fans take their freedom of interpretation for granted because most of these takes aren't even labeled 'headcanon,' 'ooc,' or 'crack' anymore. Stans feel that their interpretations are valid, and while they are, valid =/= canon, and they're treating these takes as canon, which becomes popular fanon.

I enjoy Jiang Cheng for what he is, however as I had said it took me another reread to get to my stance of him being the negative mirror to Lan Wangji's positive and my comfort with that for the story once I realized what purpose he served. He is only insofar tragic in regards to his circumstances, but it does not absolve him for what he is at his core (no pun, but I can make a very nice metaphor that even with a piece of Wei Wuxian in him he is still forever unable and unwilling to stand by him equally all while stagnating where as Lan Wangji is able to flourish, grow and mature with nothing of import left from Wei Wuxian in a technical sense). As for ships, I am a little dirty Xicheng whore for fun and can say there is a sense of entertainment for me making it work with two people where one is wildly ignorant and the other wildly rabid. But that is outside of what is established as canon in the work and I always try to keep the two strictly separate due to the skew fanon perpetuates.

3/?] And now, it's not clear what part of the fanon references canon JC or the canon events of mdzs. JC is an asshole; I don't like him as a person, but I do think that he's a complex character motivated by many issues (sup, YeeZY), which makes him fascinating to explore. Unfortunately, erasing his culpability also removes his agency. JC should be allowed to be an asshole character who makes his own decisions even if they're the wrong ones. He has made his own tragedy by constantly casting Wei Wuxian as the villain of his life.

Now thanks to you I will be using YeeZY to forever and now to acknowledge Madam Yu (this is your fault for the new tag). From a standing from storytelling I agree that he is complex in the Jianghu for MDZS. Where in the usual political intrigue of Wuxia, he would be the mustache twirling villain that is outright unforgivable in narration, it is by favor of Wei Wuxian's narration that has an early steeping of empathy for him. And he is not meant to be seen as ultimately sympathetic, the work builds up his hate against Wei Wuxian who tries to rationalize it all several times until he is finally unable to. Jiang Cheng is the antithesis to Lan Wangji and the false bait to get attached to in Wei Wuxian's first life. I will make the note their meeting in Yiling is lukewarm between both as they exchange nothing really in terms of conversation and all pleasantries are left in terms of Jiang Yanli for Wei Wuxian. By this point Wei Wuxian has already switched his yearnings of platonically wanting a part of Jiang Cheng's life, to subconscious romantic inclinations about Lan Wangji and the perceived loss of being in the other's life.

The very point of Jiang Cheng as the deconstruction, is that he has no passion in life despite his apparent exploits because he put a shadow to hang over himself as an excuse to say others think he is not good enough. He has no deeper motivations than pure selfishness by the end of the work and is pure frivolity that he has built up losing the meaning of his sect as a tradition. He had his agency (more than anyone I might add in the work due to his social position) that he used to build his reputation as a passive rich sect leader that has little to do with civilian problems.

4/?] And I think a JC, somehow, that realizes that he did something wrong and is working hard to change for the better and gain self-actualization to become that UWU best jiujiu the stans want him to be, who is ready to talk (not yell at) with WWX, apologize to him, and create a better, healthier relationship with him is a much more powerful reconciliation and happy ending than 'everyone is wrong and mean and they all apologize to JC, which magically gets rid of all his issues'.

He is forced out of culpability in reconciliation because simply put, his audience do not like the reality that relationships fray and dissolve with no further resolution other than we as adults both need to move on for safety and good health. It is not acceptable in real life and fiction is allowed to place that also in it's thematic relationships. He has a small, small spark of recognition at the end of the main story, however he himself seems to choose to ignore it, as change is hard and he has never taken to that well as was foreshadowed with his dogs and the idea of sharing a space with Wei Wuxian. To write this is an awful lot of work into his psyche which is not a nice place, he is a terrible being and downplaying that to make a sugar sweet person does not work instantaneously. He is the one responsible for the entire fallout with Wei Wuxian and he hysterically realizes that even as he tries to continue to blame Wei Wuxian.

The issue that I have with his current stan culture, is that they already view him as something he is not. They play at bicycle with all of the other protagonists that have positive traits that they strip as they see fit; Good affirming loving to children adult Lan Wangji, Self-sacrificing ultimately did it all for love and care Wei Wuxian, Hard exterior but softened to who they consider an annoyance Wen Qing, Loyal as partners in their exploits on the field and always have each others back Wen Ning. They even take Jin Guangyao's persona of playing damsel and using that as a positive to soften up Jiang Cheng into something he has never been for anyone for ships.

[5/5] Also, making WWX/WN/LWJ apologize just makes them look better than JC. Like, stans supposedly love JC, so they ahouldn't be lazy and work hard to give him actual character development. Again, I'm sorry for spamming your ask. It just really baffles me about where they get these 'hot' takes (All I'm going to say is that JC was ungrateful, and WN had a reason verbally dismantle him).

They see this, but, they will spin it in any way to excuse Jiang Cheng due to the story itself showing that he was in the wrong to everyone he flung accusations at and his hate. No one but him is at fault for his spite as he had gotten his revenge on the ones that had ruined Lotus Pier and killed his parents. His own resentment pitted him against good and well meaning people that he refused to help as he mimicked his mother's words about raising their heads higher out of goodness instead of keeping low and staying self-centered. There is the underlying criticism of taking individual arrogance as self-care at the cost of others. Each point that Wen Ning makes is exactly what Jiang Cheng himself knows as he hated Wei Wuxian for being something he could not be or even wanted to be. Jiang Cheng wants kindness but does not understand that kindness to others needs to be selfless and accept the hurt that can come with that in life. He encompasses the fall from the path of buddhist lifestyle, "The Three Poisons" to Wangxian's "Without Envy" at the stories end.

[6/5] P.S. I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it. I think it would be interesting to see what force of nature would push him through a character development because throwing a therapist at him would result in a murder.

"I'm not saying I want reconciliation fics, but I just feel that if stans want JC to have a happy ending, then I think that he should actively work for it."

They do not think he has to work for it, they say his tragedy is enough, while heaping accusations against Wei Wuxian and saying his own are not enough to absolve him. Something Wei Wuxian has never denied and told all present they are allowed to forever hate him for what he had done in the past, but that they need to find a way to live in a life that is always moving on. He learned that grudges do nothing once they are absolved and it leaves you with hate with nothing else to do with it once that object is gone. In terms of reconciliation, I do not ever think that either want anything other than a distant peaceful out of each other's life set up. Jiang Cheng does not need Wei Wuxian in his life to be satisfied and never has since he used him as the handicap to hide behind to stay angry and miserable. Being without that fallback opens the world far more for him to change than him ever interacting like an old friend with Wei Wuxian ever again, if he ever had the guts to do that.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #jiang cheng #yeah I am using that tag block me if it upsets you #pokes this sorry for the length I tried #listen... only i am his trash queen

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