#because he's absolutely a macho jock asshole type at the beginning

[frumfrumfroo]

I always think it’s interesting how many people who align themselves with queerness/wokeness in fandom end up exclusively stanning the most conventional heroes. They prefer altering characters like Thor or Poe as representation, “lesbian icon Thor” or “gay Poe” when those characters are some of the most ideally masculine in their respective stories. And they shame the fans of characters who are *minimally* non-masc, usually in ways that reinforce patriarchal ideas like male emotionality=weakness

It does seem that way, doesn’t it. All the ‘why stan Kyle when P0e is right there’ type anti bullshit, and their constant bizarre insistence that he’s always been a super important lead character on par with Rey and F/nn so you’re ‘erasing’ him by not treating him that way. Which is clearly *ist.

Meanwhile, P0e was a cardboard cut out of ‘The Ace Pilot’, which is definitely one of the most cliché, most conventionally masculine hero archetypes in film history. It was a Dead Horse Trope in the eighties (Flasheart from Blackadder is a parody). In TFA he was a plot device, which is why he is an instantly recognisable stock character- that’s all that was needed.Rian did a little self-aware comment on it in TLJ, which gives him a bit of edge, but it’s not a deconstruction and he remains fairly flat. He’s now a supporting character, developed just enough for that role.

SW is super old fashioned and these old fashioned serial tropes are totally fine but he’s not a character with depth and he was never intended to carry a major plotline, so the treatment of him in the fandom (and the press) as ‘beloved leading man who could totally end up with Rey’ is pretty transparent.

#tropes #writing #Thor in the original film was actually super refreshing #because he's absolutely a macho jock asshole type at the beginning #but he's allowed to look silly and he's allowed to cry and film never suggests for a moment that this is a problem or harms his dignity #he's intuitive empathetic and emotionally open- and the film doesn't think you should have a problem with that #it's not something he needs to grow out of #Loki's weeping is not shameful or weak either #his pain and vulnerability are treated with gravitas #the Asgard stuff is all very manly men daddy issues male problems #but all three of the dudes cry and even cry while they're hitting each other #have I mentioned lately that I love Sir Kenneth Branagh and his secure masculinity #because let me inform you with absolutely certainty this was because of him #as were Jane and Darcy's sensible wardrobe and Real Human Persons treatment #compare/contrast the sequels if you doubt it #But yeah literally the problem they have with Ben is his vulnerability #like I have that whole post about this but that's what it comes down to #he's a romantic figure and that's why he's so vulnerable but that's not allowed in their pew pew 'splosions power fantasy #because Adam is super duper manly and yet through the power of Ben showing embarrassing human emotions he becomes a whole bunch of insults #which boil down to 'effeminate weakling'

[evilelitest2]

In answer to your follower question, I'd LOVE to see more Alt-Right Debunking. I personally would also be interested in you elaborating on "the hell that is high school" and how that messes people up, since from my observation, a lot of Alt-Righters, even ones who are adults in their 30s and older act like everyone in the world still thinks in terms of high school cliques and pecking orders. What say you?

That is as always a very good question, and yes it is very true, a lot of the Alt Right mentality is based upon a high school mentality, which makes sense honestly, a lot of the Alt Right are emotionally maladjusted men, and high school is where the seeds of that are set up.  I mean in most of the world, HIgh school is a land where we systematically traumatize our children for shits and giggle, and it sets the mental standard for a lot of people in terms of social interaction.  And high school is a really really hostile place, you are constantly beset by parental pressure, teacher pressure, administrative pressure, work pressure, sports/team pressure, the beginning of romantic pressure, potential college pressure, and of course pressure from your peers, who are the absolute worse.  All happening as you are going through an extremely awkward phase, suddenly experimenting with sexuality, potentially experimenting with drugs and alcohol (and if you aren’t, hearing a lot about other people doing so), getting a degree of independence from your parents, and suddenly finding yourself devolving preferences and tastes and learning to be a human beings.  and then to make matters worse in most of these countries the education system is based on fundamentally flawed assumptions, and in the Us it has this awful problem of no funding and designing the system to be as dehumanizing as possible.  So a lot of people come out feeling very tramatized and very scarred by the experience, and for young straight men, this pressure mostly comes out in a sense of helplessness.  Now obviously women, GSM people etc do get it worse in high school, i’m just talking about white straight men cause that is who makes up the base of the alt right.  FOr my demographic, the constant societal pressure is to be manly, to be sexually successful, and that if you behave in an appropriately macho way, you will no longer be insecure, awkward, uncomfortable, socially isolated, and cripplingly insecure.  At my high schools, there were basically two forms of Nazi kids, the people who were on the verge of dropping out and turned to Nazism as a form of ideological comfort, in a “Sure I failed at school, sports, nobody likes him and I am likely to spend the rest of my life in this piss ant town working menial labor, but damnit, I’m white and part of a group” sort of things.  The other Nazi kids (Though they didn’t openly call themselves Nazis” were primarily nerds who honestly bothered me more than any of the jocks at my school.  These people were somewhat smart, but they were unpopular and extremely insecure, and they basically assumed that because some people didn’t like them due to them being into nerdy things or dressing funny, that was true of all people who didn’t like them.  When in fact, a lot of people didn’t like them because…they were socially maladjusted assholes, who never fucking thought about other people when they talked.  All they bloody did was talk and never really let you speak, it was extremely frustrating.  also they were somewhat smarter than average, so they kept assuming they were the smartest person in the room at all times, but of course they were not and knowing more than the average moron doesn’t tell you much.  For example, I remember one of those chaps being all like “Well contrary to popular opinion, the Nazis had a lot of allies among the local population in Eastern Europe because to them they were fighting communism more than they were oppressing Jews”  Which is true and that isn’t exactly taught,  But then when I pointed out that A) A lot of the locals in Eastern Europe were more than happy to participate in the mass killing of jews themselves and B) The nazi cruelity to the slavic peoples was so great it actually lost them all of the support they gained C) The nazi disorganization and utterly incompetent leadership structure made any formation of a longer term Nazi Empire impossible and this guy was like “That isn’t true you are wrong”  And within a few mins I found out he wasn’t reading primary sources on this shit, but was getting this on message boards and games about the nazis.  BIt of a ramble, but my point is these people are losers in both instances, and society is telling them that if they can just act macho then they aren’t losers and if that the reason why they are losers is because they aren’t sleeping with enough girls/getting in enough fights. 

   And i think a lot of people get this hyper defensive socially withdrawn thing going on in high school and never leave it, which of course makes them even more maladjusted which makes Neo Nazism even more tempting.  Also if you are really insecure and constantly emotionally upset, then anything that is saying “hey your behavior is kinda not cool” or “hey the way you conceptualize women as nothing more than something to help you win is kinda fucked up” they take as the greatest attack upon themselves. 

   I find it really noticeable that Pick up artists don’t actually seem to like sex itself, they mostly seem to just want to be able to tell themselves “look, i’m a real man, I had sex with women” which more comes out of a lack of that in their earlier life.  

   Whats worse and at the exact same time high schoolers are in the midsts of this sense of mass dehumanization, pop culture makes teenage boys the center of pretty much everything, and speaking as a former teenage boy, the shit that is meddled to us is fucking awful, every time a movie or comic book showed up for me I was like “Wow, popular culture revolves around me and isn’t that a massive implied insult”  But all of it is anti intellectual, pro violence, and just encouraging the type of simplistic reductive self indulgent world view so many of these alt rightists gravitate towards, these people take being mentally shallow as a badge of honor.  Also they are all based on emotions and symbolism rather than reason or nuanced thinking, like 300.  

    This is to say nothing of the fact that you have the Dunning-Kreger effect

Which John Cleese explains nicely and is rampant in high schools

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF-5-5MMpGw

ANd I am sorry I didn’t answer this question sooner, I have been sick and since this is a very good question, I wanted to answer it in full

#Ask EvilElitest2