#even jay himself comes into his wisdom which has always been there and acknowledges his love for his family

[bluffmotel]

while only a minority share this view, i do find it somewhat tone deaf when people claim jay's ending is the best outcome for an abuse survivor -- either directly or indirectly implying everyone in the holt house was an abuser that jay, their sole little victim, had to get away from. for starters, none of his endings are happy ones. not even the fugitive path where he's holed up amongst nature, has a dog, and is bathed in solitude. maybe if you close your ears to what jay's saying during that scene you could see this as good for him, but his dialogue is stifled with an achingly loneliness, a sadness. this idea that he craved being alone in the wilderness is not one jay paints himself, it's only something that's said by tyler ; someone who clearly doesn't understand the younger on any level, much less grasps his desires. yes, jay wanted out, he likes nature, though no human can stew in their own space for years without this affecting them mentally. and that's not even taking into account that his entire life is over! he can't travel, he can't visit other countries or get lost in other areas of wood lands or plains, jay is infinitely stuck where he is. it's not a prison cell but it's a cage nonetheless, as the old saying goes : a golden cage is still a cage, after all. he tells zoe these beautiful sights have grown dull on him, laments about missing his family, vanessa, and is so chained by his want for connection he reaches out to a desert dream victim of all people. like, what about this muted cynicism, this barren home, seems happy? maybe he wanted this, some whimsical dream of this, before. now though? it's not what jay thought it'd be, and he lacks any power to change it. this is not some amazing ending for abuse survivors, it's still sad in a melancholy way, simply because jay is visibly unhappy with said circumstances.

but moving on to this, ah, ‘poor little victim in a lion's den’ narrative ... what? i think a lot of people fail to grasp how complex the holt household is in terms of toxicity and abuse. something that's very common nowadays due to how much people project rather than see what's in front of them. and don't get me wrong! projection is fine, you do you, we all consume and parse through media differently -- but this narrative is, by canon evidence, rather fictional. to be completely blunt, jay is not the only victim stuck in the holt house ?? the abusers have always been bear ( physical abuse, verbal degradation ) and sharon ( passive in the face of her kids' abuse, emotional manipulation ) ... and we are literally told point blank by the story itself and another character that these two favored jay immensely compared to their other children. now i'm obviously not saying that he has not faced trauma, he has! favoritism in a house like this does not shield you from the toxicity, sometimes that favor makes things worse, but he was protected to an extent, in ways tyler and dale were not. those two very clearly faced the brunt of bear's physical abuse ; for each other, for jay, and just overall caught their dad's ire more because they stood up to him. tyler takes a beating, a sight that's not at all new by his grim acceptance of this and the fact he states he's been doing this since young :

so, this is normal for tyler. getting beaten by his dad ( which isn't even mentioning the horror story bear can tell to ash, about how he literally threatened to cut tyler's ear or finger off ) and having his mom overall turn a blind eye to it, even going as far as to dismiss this fighting as childish behavior rather than what it is. and dale? we don't see much of him and bear in general, yet the second he steps up to defend tyler, with something as measly as a shove back, bear wastes zero time in hitting him so hard he's practically out of commission for the rest of the fight. he didn't even think about it, merely swung at dale as hard as possible on instinct alone before tyler hastily stepped up to defend him. what happens when jay tries stopping the fight, though?

both parties grab for him so they can toss him out of the way so he doesn't possibly get hurt. you can speculate bear was only doing this in order to finish his punishment on tyler, he'd deal with jay later whatever, although why not punch him like dale? why, out of all the moves on his belt, does he do the more merciful option? bear, who is nothing if not made of violence and has been molded to respect it? his fist that's raised in the air isn't for jay, since the next frame is jay shoved out of the way and him hitting tyler again ... hell, in dialogue where bear and jay are sitting on their porch, the youngest can even say bear beats on tyler and dale specifically. why not say “you beat on us”? like, the game is heavily implying that while jay is traumatized, there are some methods of abuse he simply did not face. one of them being the physical abuse prominent at home. and no, i'm not counting whatever pranks dale's pulled on jay ( like shooting him six times with a bb gun lmao ) because honestly? that's just older brother behavior, and we know that despite the morbid pranks, he still looked out for jay in the ways that counted. like protecting him from pa and to an extent tyler, something which, again, jay says himself!

back on topic a bit, the notion people seem to have of jay and his family seems overly simplified to me. people just looked at dale being his usual asshole self and went ‘abuser’, people looked at tyler's rather drastic and not usually like himself reactions to a high stress situation and went ‘abuser’, and that's a bit ridiculous to me. can't say i'm shocked! since so many people nowadays just see someone mean to their favorite character and decide woobifying said fave while demonizing their opposing force is exactly what canon intended. as dusk falls couldn't be a game more clear about it's main theme of family and the fact there's no purely good or bad people in this world, two statements that correspond directly to the holt family. are they bad for each other? probably! but that's a different discussion compared to, say, every single soul in that house violently abused poor jay and they should reap the consequences of that. dale and tyler, like their beloved younger brother, are also victims of abusive parents and a toxic home life. in turn, they both show signs of this abuse in ways that aren't entirely sympathetic or easy to swallow, especially when they've been dealing with it longer than jay and have never had their parents' favor the way he did. i see people get angry at tyler for the famous cabin scene, but nobody turns a critical eye to sharon ; who for all intents and purposes is watching this unfold without a care. she never physically stops tyler and her attempts to kill the fight are weak compared to her previously steely commands. and, honestly, the fact that tyler was that stressed about sharon getting on that bike so she can be protected, when she's the most capable out of the three of them, is way more strange than tyler's outburst -- when he's in a high stress situation, his baby brother's dead, and his life as he knows it is over. a life he didn't even have to begin with, since it was stolen due to his abusive upbringing.

whether this excuses what he did or not is entirely up to the player! i personally don't think it does, though i also understand where this is coming from and the game makes it clear this is not usual tyler behavior. throughout other people's views it's hammered into us that tyler has a cool head relatively, is the most sensible and smart out of his brothers. so, no, i do not think he was choking jay out all the time for his misplaced resentment -- i think his obvious disliking came from his stilted interactions with jay, and his lack of bond with him at all. we see in book one two times he reaches out to jay, demanding that he eats ( a minor, small thing to fret and worry about ) as well as panicking when he sees jay away from the rest of them during a shoot out. dale constantly looks out for jay as well, going as far as to take the heat from romero if they get caught and something as small as taking blame for jay's mistake in the barn scene. are his brothers more prone to violence and apathy? sure! yet they clearly love jay regardless. abusive households are not easy and see through. in fact in many cases the different levels of abuse the kids suffer does breed life altering resentment later on, envy that can damage these bonds permanently. honestly the holt family intrigues me deeply because of how well written they were as a unit, the effects of abuse and toxicity subtle and not overt in a ‘psa message’ kinda way. and these horrible relationships and ideals shared do not negate from the even more horrible fact that there is love in this messed up family, even bear clearly loves his sons, but that doesn't make it better. it almost makes it worse, seeing all the good intentions and care. knowing it doesn't excuse what they've done to each other nor does it make them better. they're a picture perfect family of an ugly wound! which is fascinating! i only wish more people saw that wonderfully shown depth rather than this bland and lukewarm take on the holts overall.

jay is a victim, he is traumatized, he deserved to one day spread his wings and put some distance between himself and his family ... but he was not the only one who deserved that ending, and he was not the only victim there. he was merely the only one with easy to parse trauma responses.

#as dusk falls #interior night #jay holt #dale holt #tyler holt #the holt family #meta post #ngl i'll make fancier tags eventually because i do not wanna clog the adf tag but this'll do #this was not supposed to be my first post yet i feel very strongly about this topic and the holts so um #here we go i guess! #cannot stress enough the literal dev of interior night has said the holts do want what's best for each other #they just have different ideas of what that best is! so it comes out wrong and warped and sometimes mean spirited #but they aren't just 2-bit abusers with signs on their heads saying : i hate jay and abuse him on the regular im a monster kill me #like do you know how much it wrecked me going through variations of the jay in prison scenes and seeing him say like #that tyler might even be happy out there as a fugitive. and that jay wants that for him? for tyler to be happy? #even jay himself comes into his wisdom which has always been there and acknowledges his love for his family #and the fact tyler and dale were miserable going on the way they were. just like he was! #the game centers around the holts and the walkers because they are two families that love each other and fumble the landing of it #jim lies to vince over something unforgivable. yet lying is all he knows. yet he did it out of a selfish love for his son #michelle cheats on vince which is awful and tries to paint it as something not important but she loves vince #is even willing to let him indulge in petty revenge ( which is missing the point ) so that they can stay together! #terrible things they're doing but it never takes away from the fact they love vince and zoe #a sentiment echoed by the holts! #idk like i know this take might get me killed but seeing morally gray games get the black and white treatment kills me #you are missing the true brilliance of adf's writing! you are missing some amazing characters! #also jay is not some unflawed creature. he literally can get so jealous over some girl that he isn't dating to the point of MAIMING a guy #he could've killed todd. he probably almost did! vanessa even says he might be more like his family than he thinks #and even if you don't choose this option it is still inside him. this paranoid jealousy and brutal violence #he can shoot vince or watch him die. he can let his dad die. he can bury someone alive. he can kill a cop and some poor ranger #dale and tyler and jay might be different characters and were shaped differently but they're still the same at their core

[redrobin-detective]

Omg writing prompt PLEASE do Billy Batson and jason bonding. That sounds soo good my 2 favorite characters together at last

Ah! Yes! I’m skipping ahead to this one because this one has been in my head since last night and I’m raring it go! Thank you!

There was something about Gotham that put Billy Batson at ease. He thinks it’s the same thing that makes pretty much every normal person feel uncomfortable. There’s this feel that Gotham has, it's something heavy and slimy that settles on your shoulders, makes you to be alert and aggressive or else you’re dead. It makes him feel that, if he had to, 12 year old Billy could probably survive in the cold, unforgiving streets of Gotham. Fawcett City isn’t half as bad, but five years of homelessness tends the make that same sorta angry paranoia needed to survive in a place like Gotham.

But Billy Batson isn’t here, not really. Cap is here for a meeting with the Bat, and though Cap and Billy are technically the same person, Cap’s got the Wisdom of Solomon and the Courage of Achilles and all sorts of other bad-ass things that make Billy’s thoughts and feelings seem dim and far away. He thinks it’s the Wizard’s magic in him that brings out Billy’s best qualities in Cap and buries all the ugly, street stuff deep inside. Buries it until Billy comes back and needs all that stuff to survive in a city all on his own.

He shakes his head, he doesn’t have time for philosophy, Bruce wouldn’t have called him to the Cave if it wasn’t urgent. B says it’s just a mission report but he could’ve given that to Cap at the Watchtower, so whatever it is, it’s gotta be like, mega-bad. If he wasn’t so distracted by the fact that Batman probably was gonna to chew him out into next week, he’d be busting a nut over how freaking awesome the Cave was. Cap’s been here before but it never stops being wicked cool. He wishes he could be Billy, just for a sec, so he could run around and look at all the cool gadgets but Cap’s got bigger things to worry about. Like whether Batman is gonna slow roast him or just skin him alive.

“Why do I have to give it to him, you called him here, you deal with him.” A whiney kid’s voice says from what sounds like the top of the long staircase leading up to Wayne Manor proper. He leans in closer even though with his enhanced hearing, he doesn’t need to. It’s not eavesdropping, it’s evidence gathering.

“I agree but the signal just went up and I’m sure it’s important. I don’t have time to give Marvel the report details.” He hears Bruce’s voice respond as he begins walking down the stairs. “You helped me organize the file information, you should be able to explain it. That’s a minimum requirement if you want to be Robin.” Cap remembers to straighten himself up and is casually whistling and examine his nails by the time they arrive in the Cave so they don’t suspect him of listening in. Inside he’s pretty shocked, the big guy keeps his private life pretty hush-hush but he didn’t know he had another kid lined up to be Robin. He makes a note to do some research next time he’s at the Fawcett City Library about any new kids Bruce Wayne has adopted recently. But the biggest shock is when B steps out of the way enough for Billy to look at the soon-to-be boy wonder. The boy pouts and uncrosses his arms long enough to swipe the file out of Bruce’s patient hand.

“Captain,” Billy straightens as the scariest dude, like ever, says his name. “I’m afraid there’s something I must attend to and I can’t give you the notes on the last mission’s report myself.” The Bat rests a light hand on the boy’s shoulder and the pinched, cautious look on the kid’s face is so familiar, it’s eerie. "This is Jason, he’s been staying with me, he’ll be giving you the details in my place. He’ll be undergoing training soon so he needs to be able to do this sort of thing. I appreciate you taking the time to come out here in person and would appreciate it further if you’d be a sounding board for Jason to test his skills out on someone other than myself.“ So Batman called him out to Gotham… so he could give his kid the chance to learn basic skills with a non-judgmental hero. The part deep inside that has vague memories of loving parents feels warm beneath the crushing feeling of jealousy and guilt. He knows a dirty, messed up street kid when he sees one, and he bets this Jason kid has no idea how good he’s got it getting someone as caring as Batman to take him in.

"Of course sir," Cap responds a second later as he tamps down all those parts of Billy inside and works on channeling his very best for the new kid. He's supposed to be the mentor in this case, he’s gotta set a good example even though the kid looks older than he is. "I’ll help out in anyway that I can, you can count on that.” Jason makes a face at Cap’s natural enthusiasm and Batman merely gives the boy a light, affectionate knock on the head.

“Behave, both of you. You’re free to leave once you’ve received the report Captain, you’re aware of how the Zeta tubes work. Jay, when done I want you to finish reading that book on basic criminology and start in on those breathing exercises I taught you. If you get that done, I’ll read you the next chapter of Alice in Wonderland before bed so you can sleep through the night.” Jason blushes and ducks his head mumbling some embarrassed curses under his breath. But Batman either doesn’t hear or is used to being called such things and walks over to the Batmobile firing up the engine. “I’ll be checking the security footage later and grading you on your report so don’t think you can skip out. Alfred’s in charge while I’m away. Captain, thank you again. I will see you at the meeting next Thursday.” With that, the door closed and the ground beneath the car turned so it was facing the tunnel exit and soon was screaming out of the Cave like, well, a bat out of hell.

He was distracted by how sick that ride was and what organs he’d give up for a  joyride through the streets when Jason was shoving the manila folder against his chest. The kid takes a deep breath, puts his shoulders back obviously trying to appear older and more mature and keeps his face perfectly neutral as he begins a detailed narration of the last mission, what was found and future plans. Billy has to admit, the kid is good. He's smart, interpreting the information not just reciting it. His vocabulary is, like, twice the size of Billy's and he’s standing there talking like an actual adult instead of the antsy kid who looks like he’s three seconds from bolting. If Billy wasn’t intimately familiar with that sensation himself, he sure he wouldn’t have noticed Jay’s absolute discomfort at being left alone with a strange older man. Cap can see why Batman picked him up.

“Alright, that’s everything, any questions?” Jay asks in a carefully stated monotone that does nothing to betray his uneasiness. Billy wonders if Batman already trained him that way or if the kid had already learned to control his fear before coming here. Maybe the streets of Gotham weren’t as kind as he thought.

“No, that was great!” Cap says eagerly, as Billy takes a casual step or two back to ease off on the kid. “Batman sure has taught you well, I just know you’re going to make an amazing Robin.” Jason’s mouth jerks vaguely upwards for a second before going back to it’s back to his neutral position.

“Has anyone else told you that you’re a bit corny?" Jay asks with an amused raise of his brow. Clearly Jay isn’t feeling very threatened by him anymore which allows Cap to relax and maybe let out a bit more of Billy. It’s not very often he gets to talk to kids his age about hero stuff, not to mention one who was in a similar position to Billy.

"All the time, it’s part of my charm but Green Lantern disagrees. I say that anyone who runs around waving his ring around advertising his favorite color doesn’t have room to talk.” Jason snorts and the two of them share a conspiratal chuckle together “You’re real lucky Bruce took you in, he’s a good guy, he acts like he’s my dad sometimes but he does it cause he cares.” Cap is shocked when the semi-smile falls off Jason’s face but Billy really isn’t.

“Right, I’m just so lucky this fancy rich boy picked me off the streets and told me I wasn’t living my life right and that he was make everything better as if a few weeks of clean sheets and a threes squares a day are gonna erase all the crap I seen, the stuff I done.” Jason says bitterly, folding in on himself as he crosses his arms over his chest. His blue-green eyes were stormy with anger and insecurity, upset at Cap’s unintended ignorance but also at himself for his fears that maybe he isn’t deserving of all the good things happening to him. Sometimes what Billy thinks and what Cap says don’t always match up, as if everything he says passes through a filter to make it as good and wholesome as possible. But Billy gets it, he got the same spiel every time he was transferred to a new foster home, before he realized none of them had what he needed and decided the streets were better for him.

“Sorry, I didn’t mean to offend,” and he winces again trying to push Billy to the forefront instead of letting Cap’s, welling meaning but naïve, attitude interfere. “I just mean there are a lot of people who take in street kids ‘cause they’re nice and it’s the right thing but they don’t know how to handle them y'know? With Bruce, you got someone who gets that things aren’t always gonna be good and happy now that you’re in a proper home, who understands that bad things don’t always stay in the past. I know it’s different from being in the streets and you’re probably wondering if all this is worth it but I know Batman and I know he’s gonna do the best he can for you and not be hard on you cause you’re not the clichéd grateful foster kid.”

Jason stares at him, long and hard before humming quietly to himself and gently jerking his chin forward. It’s a sign of respect, of acknowledgement from one dirty rat to another that they understood what the other is going through. He’s not worried about Jay telling the Bat about Captain Marvel being, what he believes, a former homeless kid. Street boys don’t rat each other.

“Yeah man, it’s cool.” Jay shrugs casually after a minute, relaxing his shoulders completely for the first time since coming downstairs. “Anything else I can getcha before you head out. Alfie buys like, way too much food, you could take some if you want. I don’t think either of them would even notice.”

“I appreciate the thought,” Cap says cheerily, cause he does. It's coming up on winter and fresh food is scarce and Billy’s little supply is wearing thin awfully fast with how much he has to eat just to keep his temp up. But he promised himself from the start he wouldn’t have the Cap messing with Billy’s life, it went against his code and it just wasn’t fair to the other kids making their own living. “But I can take care of myself.” Jay smiled, a small but nice smile and Billy finds himself irrationally happy that Bruce was able to save this kid, give him the home he deserved.

“I’m sure you can," Jason holds out his small fist, "see you around? B is still keeping me kinda on the down-low for now while the papers go through. Not even the reporters know yet so I could use some company.” Cap smiles and gingerly returns the fist bump.

“You bet, I’ve never gotten an official tour of the Cave and I bet it’s got the coolest stuff around. Next time you gotta tell me the story behind the dinosaur man.” Jason laughs.

“Yeah, next time.”

Ok this one took a lot longer and I’m sorry. But this was my first Billy and so I really took my time making sure I got his voice right, that mix of genuinely good childishness mixed in with the kinda bitter street kid. I also like the dichotomy between Captain Marvel and Billy Batson and the sorta divide between them. Jay I know easy enough but I cherry picked each word of Billy’s. Also, just cause I want it known. B totally knows about Billy’s age and situation here and deliberately sets him and Jay up to meet so the two sad street kids can bond. Also Jay really did need to practice his reports.   

#DC Writing Prompts #Billy Batson #Captain Marvel #Jason Todd #I really really like this relationship and I liked exploring it