#fascinating how all these stories shape the early years of Bruce's relationship with Joker. BEFORE Jason's murder

[distort-opia]

Alright excuse my compulsion to situate everything within a timeline, but. I love that now there's more than one story taking place before The Killing Joke that establishes Bruce empathizing and relating to Joker, and that Zdarsky clearly took inspiration from the one before his own for this aspect of Bruce and Joker's relationship.

The events of Zdarsky's I Am A Gun take place while Dick is a boy and still Robin, early in Batman's career... and so does Darwyn Cooke's amazing-showstopping-spectacular Batman: Ego. In Ego, we get another instance of Bruce's mind being split in two; there being a separation between Bruce and Batman, with the embodiment of Batman arguing for Joker's murder:

-- Batman: Ego

But Bruce says no. He says he isn't a killer:

Forever obsessed with how Darwyn Cooke so efficiently conveys how Bruce understands Joker, and relates to him. He knows Joker chose madness to deal with tragedy, that he was faced with the same choice Bruce was, and that Bruce could've become him. Because that's what Bruce lapsing into laughter and acting like Joker shows.

But the story is centred around Bruce in Batman: Ego, while in I Am A Gun... perhaps the best line to summarize it is Bruce thinking to himself, "Is the Joker broken too?" in Batman (2016) #128. It's not just the two facets of Bruce vs. Batman in this story, it's also the two facets of Joker: a human being, and a monster.

The conflict in Bruce is mirrored in Joker, and I am kissing Zdarsky on the mouth for acknowledging it and portraying it so beautifully. There's a monster in Bruce made out of hollow anger, and there's a human being crying for help buried inside Joker:

-- Batman (2016) #130 -- I Am A Gun

"He'll fix you." And Martha being the one to say this, the one who becomes Joker herself in a different world, a different Universe... perhaps it's not intentional, but it feels so relevant. In Flashpoint, Thomas Wayne is a Batman who kills. In New 52's Earth 2, he's a Batman who killed Joker himself. And in Bruce's head, it's Thomas Wayne arguing for Joker's death.

But I just love that keeping both I Am A Gun and Ego in mind, knowing that these thoughts and emotions were there for Bruce for years, makes The Killing Joke... even more poignant.

Bruce has been thinking about this for a long time. And all of it coming to a head with the iconic offer for help, with the one time Bruce offered Joker his hand despite what Joker had just done...

-- Batman: The Killing Joke

[clenches fist] It's beautiful.

#long post #and this not even mentioning Bruce going up to Joker's cell and showing him the playing card as revealed in DotF #which takes place chronologically around Year 2 as well #or freaking Going Sane which takes place before Dick came along #fascinating how all these stories shape the early years of Bruce's relationship with Joker. BEFORE Jason's murder #because that changed so much for Bruce. for both of them #I'm also going [WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN] about Batman 130 itself and Bruce thinking of Joker before ''dying'' #I Am A Gun and TMWSL tie in thematically TOO WELL #identity crises! identity crises everywhere #hnng. anyway. I'm sorry I had to exorcise the Thoughts #batman #batman meta #bruce wayne #bruce wayne meta #joker #batjokes #batjokes meta #my meta #batman: i am a gun #batman: ego

[victoriousscarf]

for the meme: Jason Todd and Slade Wilson

Jason: First impression

Okay I’m reaching back to 2008 for this but I’m pretty sure the first time I ran into Jason was Hush because I read Hush really early. I remember it being my introduction to a lot of characters (including Dick as Nightwing) which is both great because it covers like Batman’s entire rouge gallery and crew but is also awful because it covers everyone and that gets confusing fast hah.

So my introduction to him was Bruce’s overwhelming guilt and rage over his death. That’s a pretty strong impression. I also know I read Under the Red Hood fairly early and liked it enough to get the animated movie the instant it came out. But I don’t remember really LOVING Jason at that stage. Like I liked him but he wasn’t someone I was so into. I’m pretty sure the first time I ever wrote him was Find the Sun. I had Dick and Tim in the first story I ever wrote but I’m pretty sure Jason wasn’t in it.

Impression now

God I can not with this compassionate broken and angry child. He’s brash yet kind, too messed up by his own tenderness and driven to extremes by his anger. Someone hug this boy.Favorite moment

Damn I don’t know. I mean the end of Under the Red Hood when Bludhaven is nuked and he fights Bruce anyway creates this really interesting triangle between Bruce Jason and Dick and tho Dick isn’t there he’s still so much a presence of the screen, the favored son vs the one who messed up and died and Bruce’s panic while finally facing this ghost. I don’t know if I can say it’s my favorite but it fucks me up to this day. I also like him fucking with Black Mask that always gives me a kick. And I really love him first meeting Dick back as Robin (the post zero hour one, not Nightwing Year One).Idea for a storyI’m sure variations have been done but I’d love more about him dealing with the Lazarus pit and how that continues to effect him. Unpopular opinionI really don’t like new 52? Like I’m all for Jason having actual friends and there’s some good in Red Hood and the Outlaws but like that’s never where i go first. Like Roy and Kor almost always are Dicks friends first. I wish Jason had been allowed to keep growing in the pre 52 with maybe some more links to Donna and Kyle and building a life post all the things he had done instead of scrapping the slate back and making him WAY less angry or brutal. Like, I’m glad new 52 reframes his compassion but I really like his compassion held in tenuous balance with his rage. (I feel starved for truly angry characters okay that aren’t just assholes). Pre 52 had some major issues with him too but tbh I’m more in Under the Red Hood territory than Red Hood and the Outlaws. Favorite relationshipYou gonna make me say it??? Really? Okay fine I’m totally into him and Dick. And I don’t just mean I really like making them kiss: I am so fascinated by the possibilities of their relationship in canon: favored son vs second son, and how Jason’s idolization of Dick turns to rage contrasted with Dicks behavior toward Jason starting as Robin, changing to his guilt and missing Jason so much turning to complete disregard for Jason when he comes back which directly contradicts Dicks entire reaction the whole time Jason was dead. Dreaming about him, getting into fights with Bruce, and perhaps most importantly beating the Joker to death with a crowbar when he mocks him about not remembering Jason’s name. (Sure it got fixed almost instantly but like mocking Jason’s death drove Dick, guilt complex almost fell apart when he let someone else kill Blockbuster Dick, to actually /kill the Joker/ which makes him the only member of the batfam who actually avenged his murder at any point??? Does Jason even /know/?) Add on legacy issues (when Dick disappears for a year Jason takes up the Nightwing suit too) and like yeah I’m fucking here man. I mean I love Bruce and Jason and the pain between them, and Jason and Tim starting with rage and moving to actually being friends but like the miasma of whatever the fuck is between Dick and Jason keeps dragging me back. (Come home brother is the only page I want to keep from Battle for the Cowl)

Favorite headcanon

Jason is acting president of all Robin’s have a crush on Dick Grayson club. They’re still trying to figure out where Duke lands but Steph is a member, tho she got the least of it since her stint as Robin covered Dicks mental breakdown era.

Slade:First impression

Damn I don’t remember. I’m fairly certain I ran into him in the teen Titans before anywhere else and he’s always interested me but I can’t quite remember which issue I found him in first. I know I spent a lot of time tracking down Judas Contract since it was out of print at the time and I have like a really early printing tpb from the 80s as a result. And even more time finding the issue where he just strolls into Dicks apartment to tell him he’s in Bludhaven because that issue never was collected in trade, so I was checking every comic store I could find and their back issues.

Impression now

I’m really disappointed he’s become more of a generic villain in a lot of DCs media. Like I loved him under Wolfram, when he was a Merc with an honor code and snarky outlook who was as likely to tutor the Titans as attack them. He almost became an ally a few times. And like I haven’t dug into his post new 52 comics that much but he just seems so bland and like oh ho ho he’s such a badass and that’s all that matters!!! So like I’m still attached to the character I just haven’t paid much attention to his recent canon.

Favorite moment

Hmmm… I mean I really like the time he allies with the Titans and the old squad was just side eying him the whole time while the newcomers where sorta more like eh? Is he so bad? And then Dick rode a goddamn nuke because why not.

But honestly it’s probably him and Dick standing outside the abondoned Titans tower, fighting over their guilt over Joeys death. It’s showcases both of their emotional pain, Dicks temper, and Slade’s strange capacity for compassion.

Idea for a story

Can I have another 80 stories set in Flashpoint with him as a pirate???

Honestly I’d be really here for an actual nuanced story exploring his relationship with his kids. Too often it gets reduced to hate or them being too much like their father and that’s not what I want.

Or! Considering I have no idea what the fuck is happening with DC right now but I just read that Superman and Lois from pre and post new 52 just got combined and have memories from both universes combined Slade dealing with his kids and Dick and sure throw Ollie in here too. The fact he’s both not met Grayson and has spend years intimately knowing Dick and the workings of his mind would be a trip and could be fun, plus his more complicated relationship with Joey and Rose pre new 52. Also Ollie would have a shit of a time figuring out his two lives (as he’s a set of characters that changed by far the most with the new 52) and why not throw Slade at him again too for old times sake? (Hey asshole remember when I crashed your wedding? I’m not even–actually yeah yeah I do you ASSHOLE)

Unpopular opinion

I have no idea??? I honestly don’t know what’s popular and what isn’t with him. So far no one’s bitched at me with anything to do with Slade.

Favorite relationship

While I’m totally here for the respectful turned to hateful rivalry between Slade and Dick (and honestly that’s another relationship that’s been stripped from Dick that drives me MAD) my favorite is actually Slade’s relationship with his kids. He’s distant, moves on a scale as simply a neglectful and not great dad to full on abusive and using his kids for his own ends (like for sure sticking kryptonite in Roses eye is a great idea!!!! But that was also at the height of Slade loosing his morals and mind). But as much as he wasn’t there for Grant, it was Grant’s foolish death and Slade’s pride that sent him on a collision course with the Titans. His guilt over Joey, first with his muteness and later for killing his own son, the fact that as terrible as he was to Rose he wants the person he respects possibly the most (Dick) to take care of his kids, especially her. The fact that when he looks at Rose the emotion the black lanterns see is love. The fact his entire plot in Flashpoint was his quest to save his daughter as the world goes pear shaped into apocalypse. Slade loves his kids he’s just a terrible fucking father and I love it.

Favorite headcanon

He still respects Dick despite everything they’ve done to each other.

#this is a dcu town #VS does a meme #just think guys if you ask me questions you get rambling answers like this