#he's also one of the only chars that i've never seen with a fanbase?? at all?? | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

shuttershocky · 5 months

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Do you have a dislike for media universes that "rewards" people for watching/reading all of it in general?

Or do you think there is one that executes that idea well?

I'm answering this 5 months late, but I'm pretty sure I still remember this ask being prompted by a post making fun of the MCU.

Do I dislike story universes that reward people for reading all of it? Not at all. I mean, I'm a fan of both Middle Earth and Star Wars, I fucking love big, big universes with plenty of stories in them. When they intersect in some small way it's a delight to me, I love those little personal winks from the author for having read their other works or recognizing the most obscure names only a nerd would know.

However, there's a difference between a little reference in a story meant for people who can connect the dots, and making something almost required reading for your enjoyment. It's the difference between an acknowledgement from the creators that you liked the setting enough to come back for a new yet familiar ride, and a company realizing they've found their cash cow and can't wait to milk it for all its got until it's dead.

And dead the cash cow will be, eventually. It's been said before that the reason why the Big Two of western comics have ceded more and more ground to manga over the years is that Spider-Man has 10 different starting points while Naruto starts with Volume#1. That's not just a funny joke. Onboarding new readers has genuinely been Marvel and DC's problem for decades, which is why it was both incredibly predictable yet shocking all the same that this is what the MCU turned itself into.

Sure, early on you could ask the audience to watch a couple movies before the big Avengers crossover, but now they've got all these TV shows on top of the movies that you have to watch in order to "catch up", and it's not even about the cool characters anymore. More and more of their fanbase is going to stop caring once the barrier of entry gets too high, and it's ridiculous to me that Marvel went this road with their movies when they know this is what happened to their comics first.

I mean, are you serious, their next big bad is Kang? I am not watching several TV shows and an Ant-Man movie that's somehow worse than the second one all to see how the currently left Avengers meet goddamn Kang the Conqueror. He's in both the TV shows and the movies, which means they're somehow giving Kang more buildup screentime than Thanos. Why? Either I've been extremely out of touch with Marvel comics or the MCU picked a wild choice to headline their next billion dollar franchise when Doctor Doom is actually available to them now and barely needs an introduction.

Sorry, got lost for a bit. Back on topic, yeah I know I know, all art right now exists under capitalism which means every setting that becomes a wider story universe is an author trying to milk their existing fanbase. Whenever a creator makes a thing that I like, and then announces they have a new thing set in the same setting as their first thing but isn't a direct sequel so they can keep gaining a new audience while keeping their existing one, I know I'm being suckered in.

Just, don't make it so blatant. And don't make it so hard. I am the exact target audience for these shenanigans and even I'm starting to feel like it's homework because it's all fucking required now.

If I, a lifelong Star Wars fan, want to watch the newest Star Wars thing, I have to see a hundred hours of other Star Wars media first. If I want to watch The Mandalorian Season 3, I can't just have seen Season 1 and 2, oh no, I have to also see The Book of Boba Fett too, because halfway through that show became The Mandalorian Season 2.5. Well I did see Boba Fett, and the combination of my dislike for turning it into required homework AND the show itself just being kinda dogshit meant I never touched season 3 of the Mandalorian. That show used to be so great because it wasn't tied down to any existing story arcs or characters, so it stood on its own and made for an amazing watch no matter how much Star Wars you've actually seen. And then it succeeded and so had to become the new spine for the entirety of Disney Star Wars afterward. Fuck. Now if I want to watch their latest show Ahsoka, I have to have seen the Clone Wars animated series AND Rebels, because the Rebels cast are in it too! I mean I did see Clone Wars and Rebels, but that still sucks!

That makes me worried now! Andor was also really fucking good and it stood on its own so hard you didn't even need to see Rogue One, the movie that introduced Cassian Andor in the first place. But now that season 1 was a success and everyone sang its praises, it certainly means season 2 is suddenly going to get real cramped with Ahsoka and Luke Skywalker and whatever guys are currently alive in its timeframe. Shit, they're probably gonna add Cal Kestis in season 2 of Andor. The Respawn Star Wars games are still doing their own thing which means it's time to connect to something else.

I hate what all this has become. It was fun to read the Silmarillion and see what kind of fuckery one family of elves got up to that eventually turned Sauron from minion to big evil eye parked next to evil mountain, but you didn't need to read all that before The Lord of the Rings. LOTR didn't assume you knew anything at all (and oh boy did Tolkien never miss an opportunity to explain shit).

Let me repeat. I am the target audience. I live for the ridiculously nerdy habit of reading things set in the same universe as other things and connecting all the dots. If /I/ feel like it's become homework, I can't imagine what the average person thinks of all this. Make it stop. Stop running everything I once loved into the ground in the name of endless profit. Star Wars was already doing this to itself before the Disney acquisition and yet it didn't feel this bad.

#I would take hundreds of disconnected and mediocre Star Wars comics and books made in the Legends era #Over what's happening to it now

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sillyfudgemonkeys · 4 years

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Was reading your response to the Okumura Ryuji/Morgana fight, and the way the person worded Ryuji's character made me wanna ask... Do you think a bad fanbase is a fair reason to dislike a character? I've heard people say things like "no look at the character too", but... For example, I'm very neutral on Ryuji. When he's good, hes SO GOOD, EXCELLENT BOY, but Ann is my favorite girl. Guess who he pervs on exclusively and is rude to all the time? I've never seen his fans talk about (1/2 sorry)

His rude behavior, or his pervy tendencies, or his more selfish desires regarding the PT. That's fine!! Not everyone wants to constantly talk about bad things their fave has done!!! But people referring to him as a "woman respecting king" so insistently rubs me the wrong way, since he treats Ann Like That. That, and (more personal) i remember making a post/ask thing once about my grievances with Ryuji, esp his perv stuff, and the fans that interacted very aggressively denied his behavior (2/3)

And it even turned into a big discourse on the blog I submitted it to (it was that one confession blog). All the people that responded and just tried moving the arguments to "well Yusuke did this-" or even tried to push blame on Ann "she was asking for it" just kinda cemented my already growing dislike for Ryuji. Super sorry this is so long!!! Final question: is a bad fanbase a fair reason for disliking a character? (3/3)

Don’t say sorry about multiple sent asks, I don’t mind kfdsjla;fja As for the answer, I want to say yes and no, but really it’s just “yes with a side note attached.” Yeah, it’s ok to not like a char because of their fans, but I think it’s as long as you know why you dislike the char beyond the fans (well tbh, imo it’s usually the crazy fans so I think stans is a better word, but even then there’s diff stans). And tbh, I....can’t....think of a character I don’t like that the fandom/fanbase does....but I know nothing about the char all the while (closest and most recent example this....is....I know people dislike that grey haired moe blob on twitter even tho I don’t think they watched the show, and while I’m not a fan of the moeblobness I don’t know anything about the char so I’m personally not upset). I can only name chars I don’t like because of what happens in the text, fandom be damned (but sometimes they don’t help). Which is why it’s a yes with a side note. If you don’t like the char despite not knowing them.....probably get to know the char first even if your impression is clouded by the fandom....at least you gave the char a chance.

Under cut cause length (first few sentences in the first paragraph under the cut/tldr at the end gives you the answer a bit more in depth, the rest is rants related to that and why I get frustrated in a similar sense too, but yeah sorry if I repeat myself, I kinda jumped all over + my tendency to try to nail a point home I feel like might’ve had me repeat a bit more than usual akslfjdakfjaf):

I say this because.....it’s hard....it’s hard to keep them separated, unless you completely isolate yourself from the fandom (which is basically impossible if you wanna keep up with news, even the comment section is part of the fandom tbh...and you might be looking down their for diff reasons). And then.....well...the big reason....sometimes seeing the fans really highlights the reasons you dislike the char. That’s what happened to me and Makoto, specifically cause of....a certain fan (and buddy if you happen to see this, nothing against you, no bad blood, def won’t mention your name I respect you and the debates we had)....AND TO THE TUMBLR READERS WHO GET NERVOUS: It wasn’t on this website in case anyone is freaking out so if you’re thinking “Oh god it’s me” it is most likely not you (tho I think we do know each other on here cause of usernames/saw each other in passing but we def aren’t mutuals last time I checked), and while I do respect that person.......my god did they highlight the reasons I had issues with P5 and Makoto. Ironically in trying to defend her and show off her good sides, I realized the writing issues more and more and her bad sides became more glaring. It turned my frustrating dislike and attempt to try to work out my issues with her and P5 (ironically “working out” in hindsight would’ve been me....denying and refusing to look at P5′s flaws) into....well......the salt factory you know today. (same thing happens with like......Yukari and Junpei fans too tbh...that’s more recent tho, it feels like they are just downplaying their negatives constantly and I’m not about that). Basically, you probably have issues already, they are just more pronounced now.

As for “look at the character”....you kinda already are doing that, and that’s probably where your existing issues originated from (tho if someone wants a more in depth reason as to why, while you DON’T OWE them an explanation, it is also hard for someone to understand your feelings and reasons if you don’t try to explain).

As for Ryu, yea, I getcha, I like the guy, I’m neutral positive on him....was my best bro but he’s 2nd best thanks to post-Kamo writing. I like him because of his positives, but I always keep his negs in mind because. Cause like while I agree with the fans IT MAKES NO SENSE! P5′S WRITING IS BAD! it happened, same as I agree that Anne kicking Ryu’s ass, along with the other girls, is shitty. Hate the scene, and I accept that it happen (low key gonna start some kinda 2nd wave war with this bs cause the fandom be like that, but I’m really surprised no one took Anne smacking Ryu behind the neck cause he was being too loud as super offensive and abuse.......it’s def something a friend might do, not like belting him just a tap, and it’s framed as chill and also as warning him to reign in the volume control, but high key surprised no one has tried to cancel her cause of that). BUT that DOESN’T mean it erases all the creepy stuff he’s done. Is he the goodest boi when he’s being good? The best. Is he always a good boi? No, he def is not. And hearing that he is can be frustrating to people that do see his flaws (cause they are there). And like....you are 100% able to like a character despite and because of their flaws, while also accepting they have those flaws. I do it with Yosuke, Ryuji (for the most part), Teddie, Shinji, Ken, Kanji (when he’s not around Naoto, then he’s in a trash can for me), P1/2 casts, Aigis, Mitsuru, as long as the flaws are within reason and are treated pretty well....then I’m ok with it. (again, Kanji/Ryu have moments when I’m like....NOPE! but when they aren’t doing the bad thing I’m cool with them). As long as the flaws are withing reason (aka they aren’t making a jerk person out to be the person in the right, or the writing is trying to sweep what they did under the rug, or trying to force us into empathizing with them despite what they did while also trying ot sacrifice empathy towards another char.....*cough*Makoto/Yukari/Junpei*cough* if the writing isn’t doing that...... I’m probs neutral to pos on them).

Like I’m fine if they are criticizing the writing and being like “Him doing this makes no sense cause it conflicts with the good boi we’ve already seen!” That’s a-ok! Not only do you recognize your char has flaws, you also are able to identify issues with the writing. But saying “so I’ll choose to ignore that scene” isn’t....ok. Because sadly it did happen, as contradictory it did happen. AU it all you want, but you have to accept it happened outside of that AU. Like, I don’t like the Mika conflict in Anne’s CoOp, by which I don’t like how it went down (100% fine with Mika, and there being conflict with her). How it the whole thing started doesn’t make sense if you put MainStory!Anne in her CoOp. MS!Anne can read the room and other people’s emotions (only other person capable of that is Haru, or at least with Mona), hell she was so good at it she noticed something was up with Shiho without Shiho telling her about it! The issue was the fact Anne’s not a mind reader and could only assume the issue Shiho was going through that Anne was aware of (and that was her spot on the team). Now MS!Anne is not like Yosuke, she doesn’t put her foot in her mouth. She’s not like Naoto who can’t read the room. She’s not super eloquent, but can empathize and when she can interact with people she can do it pretty well. So why the hell does she basically not think before talking and insult Mika? Sure Anne’s not GREAT at school, but she’s not a moron, she can talk to people. But her CoOp makes her a moron all around, 100% airhead, and that’s how her issues with Mika start, by not thinking before talking and accidentally insulting her via blatantly “not caring” about the job to a full time person......it’s stupid, it makes no sense, I hate it. But it’s there, the flaw might not be present in the main story, but for the all around character (cause CoOps are included) it is now and I just have to deal with it. We can bitch about it all day (and trust me I will) but it happened. Basically never frame it as “it didn’t happen,” but instead “It SHOULDN’T HAVE happened.” One is denial, the other is critiquing the text.

Anyway my rant aside, yeah I hate it when...well Ren/Ryu/Yusuke (no one’s said Mona yet, cause....well yeah...which is good they haven’t labeled him as it yet tho), are labeled as “drinking respect women juice” and I’m like “I have one to a few women who would disagree.” I know some people will argue Goro is drinking it, and imo he’s not....he’s just eating the “I don’t discriminate sandwich” which is different. And yeah the “But Yusuke-” yeah yeah we’ll get to him, but right now we’re talking about RYUJI. I’m not a fan of derailing a topic *war flashbacks* *shivers* anyway. But yeah I remember that debate, I was probably one who was like “We’ll get to Yusuke but right now we’re talking about Ryuji” and pushing the blame onto Anne is disgusting and Kamo Arc!Ryuji would be very upset. >:( (btw high key I think I was the first one who started the first anti-makoto war wave with me saying “yeah Anne shouldn’t have apologized Makoto started it and blah blah she was an ass” not the exact words but basically just calling her out on her shitty behavior cause the game certainly didn’t......tho as Miley Cyrus would say.....”I didn’t mean to start a waaaaaar~!” I actually wrote my first Persona Problems on that topic.......but it got lost in the drafts....my photo examples kept getting messed up which is bad considering the whole post really relied on them....I should try to dig it up tbh....)

Tldr/short answer: Yeah, you probably already have issues with the char to begin with tbh, and the fanbase can highlight those issues more. It’s also hard to escape the fanbase (I see stuff I don’t wanna see despite trying my hardest to avoid certain circles, it just happens).

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