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vro0m · 2 years

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vro0m’s rewatch - 31/288

2008 Italian GP

Recap and GIFs!

If you were disappointed by that Seb video you might wanna check out this recap!

And Monza was ALSO a wet quali?! Seriously. I can’t wait to count how many wet races happened that season when I’ll do the overall recap. It’s so weird.

Lewis ran into some issues in quali? He’s 15th on the grid?! So he spun in quali because for some reason they put him on inters while it was raining. Not smart. Seb is pole though! The youngest driver in history to take pole position, and the first one for Toro Rosso!

And it might rain today too. At the moment the track is wet but I don’t think it’s raining. Of course, there’s talk about the outcome of the Belgian GP. Charlie Whiting told Ron Dennis “yes it should be ok” when asked about the situation but as Dennis says, it’s the stewards who decide, and they decided Lewis didn’t give back enough advantage to Raikkonen (again, Max Verstappen 2021 Jeddah GP comes to mind). The other drivers agree that Lewis should have waited longer to try to overtake him again after he gave back the place. I mean I agree too, as I said in the last recap, it was obviously controversial. A whole 25 seconds penalty might be a little bit severe though.

The journalists say maybe the stewards’ decision is warranted but the inconsistencies are an issues. !!! Can’t believe it’s already a problem back then lol. They say when you watch different Formula races and they’re not all handed the same penalties it’s difficult to understand + why would it take so long to make a decision? They say they tried to talk about it with Mosley as he’s there that weekend but couldn’t get an interview with him (I mean yeah, no shit, the whole n*zi pr*stitutes scandal happened what, a couple of months before at this point?)

So the grid looks weird : Seb, Kovalainen, Webber. Massa 6th, Raikkonen 14th, Lewis 15th. I’m here for very happy baby Seb though!

Lewis says of his qualifying “it’s just one of those days where you think what was I thinking” (yeh I’d like to know too cause wtf man) He says the decision was made by his engineer and himself to try the inters. The data afterwards showed his rear brakes weren’t really working cause they were too cold.

The journalist says he knows he can’t talk about many aspects of the last GP but he asks how long did the exhilaration from racing like that last.

He answers normally it would last for a long time but when you have “.....Stuff” happening like they did it kind of brings it down. He was very happy with the job he did and the fact that he never gave up. He says he finds the grid for this GP exciting as it’s kinda flipped around.

They’re headed for the grid. Massa is already running wide. That’s worrying. Interestingly they changed his engine, but only after quali.

I like that Louise has a good rapport with the drivers. You can tell when they talk to her that they’re friendly, even when she asks hard questions or sees them just after they had to retire during races.

We don’t know yet if they’re going to start under Safety Car. They did so for the GP2 race but Martin Brundle says it was actually worse in a way because the Safety Car goes in right before the long straight to the first corner so in the end, they got there at even higher speed that they would have if they had started on the grid.

And it’s raining.

Formation lap. Oh Bourdais can’t start his car, he’s gonna have to start from the back. Poor boy. His seat for next year isn’t secured yet and he was crying after quali. Loads of spray. I’m nervous. Oh they got Bourdais’ car started on the grid, he’s gonna join the other now? WAIT THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE START OF THE RACE? They didn’t do a formation lap then? I’m confused.

And they’re racing, then, I guess?

Ah, wait, they went a full lap around and then started the race under Safety Car. Which means Bourdais is lapped I think. Welp. Anyway, the GP is underway now. Safety Car in... and go!

Soooo much spray. Glock cuts a corner and tucks back behind whoever is in front of him lol I can’t see anything. Apparently, after Spa, the official rule is : if you give back a place you have to wait at least until the next corner to try to overtake again. (I don’t remember if that’s what happened in 2021 Jeddah, I guess we’ll see when I get there with my rewatch, probably years from now because it’s clearly gonna take ages lol) Ooop, Lewis also cut a corner, and while racing Raikkonen again. Well he’s not making the same mistake twice and gives back the advantage as stated just above.

10 laps in, Lewis is up in 12th but struggling. Oooh now he overtakes Raikkonen, perfect! He’s starting to show some pace.

Nope, he pushed someone on the grass... Eesh. It was Glock coming back at him after he passed him. He’s now racing Kubica for 8th. He has to be careful being that aggressive if he doesn’t wanna get more penalties. The journalists say he might not have seen him though, with the spray. Idk. Clean overtake on Kubica though, very beautiful.

And we hear more rain might come and last. Seb pits from the lead and gets back out in 4th. Lewis overtakes Alonso, and it wasn’t as clean this time. They made contact? Unsure. Oh no, not again, he cut the corner after overtaking someone and has to give back the place. It keeps happening during this race, and not only to him. Everybody seems to struggle in that one chicane.

Lap 20. Kovalainen pits, and Massa, which puts Seb back in the lead! Lewis is now 4th. Now 3rd. Now 2nd! Well, of course he still has to pit but damn, he started 15th. First Sewis podium maybe? Lewis is less than a second behind him right now. They’ll both have to stop at some point.

And here we go, halfway through the race, Lewis pits. He gets full wets, we must hope for that rain then. So the standings are : Seb, Kovalainen, Alonso and Kubica who haven’t stopped yet, Webber, then Heidfeld who also has to pit, Massa and 10 seconds behind is Lewis in 8th. But I think everybody in front of Massa who’s already pitted are on a 2-stops strategy so if Seb can pull a big enough gap to Massa to make his second pit stop, potentially Massa is 2nd and Lewis 3rd?

With 20 laps to go, Massa pits and switches for inters. It’s true it’s still not raining. Everybody is pitting for inters at the moment. Including Seb and Lewis!

With 16 laps to go then, it’s Seb, Kovalainen, Kubica, Alonso, Heidfeld, Massa, Lewis, who’s going fastest at the moment.

10 laps to go. Now they announce light rain again, but still nothing at this point. Lewis is slow for some reason, Webber is closing in on him. 5 laps to go. Webber is less than 0.5 behind him, it’s not looking good. He tries to overtake, but Lewis didn’t leave him much room to do so. Webber is forced to cut the chicane. It’s weird to be constantly expecting the DRS to kick in when they’re following each other that closely and of course it never does because it wasn’t a thing back then lol.

They talk about Vettel’s attitude towards the media : “He’s happy, he’s friendly, he answers your questions, he shakes hands with the soundman, he shakes hands with the cameraman, and the interviewer, and he thanks you for the interview. He’ll give GP winners a bad name!” and “he has a fantastic sense of humour!”.

Coulthard crashed into Nakajima and there’s debris on the track, Massa drives on it as he goes by. Hopefully no one gets a puncture.

Last lap...

And it’s the end of the race!

Seb is the youngest F1 GP winner ever! Kovalainen P2, Kubica P3, Lewis in 7th.

Kubica hugs Seb, cute! He’s elated on the podium, it’s adorable. He’s also very winded.

Lewis says he thinks he drove a good race, unfortunately it didn’t rain. He congratulates Seb. It was damage control anyway. He admits once he was behind Massa, he struggled to keep up the pace and had to look after his tyres and had to defend whatever points he could get out of this.

He says in the end, it’s a relief he only lost one point to Massa.

#f1 #lewis hamilton #sebastian vettel #2008 #2008 italian gp #vro0m's race reviews

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pierregasly · 3 years

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Would love to hear your full take on Pierre,,,

Sorry this took me a few days to get to, I meant to answer it immediately but never found the motivation :( Anyways, onto Pierre.

I believe you are commenting on a post of mine where I stated my fear that the Middle Generation of drivers (Charles, Carlos, Pierre and Max specifically) have/are going to miss out on opportunities and will never reach their full potential in F1. This is similar to what happened to the “Lost Generation” which is comprised of drivers such as Daniel, Kevin, Nico and Checo. To reiterate something that another asker was confused about: it has nothing to do with talent. The generations are not lumped together based on talent but based on their similar ages/entrance into F1 and I am speaking on the wasted potential that this group never got to achieve. (For example, Nico’s full potential was podiums--he never got here. And Daniel’s full potential was a championship--which he’ll never get.)

I am not going to waste your time and state what I said briefly about Charles, Carlos and Max but I will go into depth more so about what I hardly touched upon with Pierre. As I said, Pierre is a phenomenal talent. As much as his podium and race win may have proven it to the world, many still call him a “luck driver” who is not good enough for a higher team. This is, obviously, because of his time at Red Bull dramatically overshadowed his career.

I started following Pierre around 2017 when I first got interested in F1 because of the history. In 2017 he wasn’t racing in Europe but in Super Formula so I took the time to catch up on his career thus far (I will go into depth on this in a moment). I didn’t start watching F1 until 2018 and the only driver (non-historical) I really was attached to was Pierre (others would comes later). Obviously, if you remember, Pierre ended up taking P5 in qualifying and P4 in a Toro Rosso in front of the whole world in only a few races at Bahrain. It was absolutely incredible and for the rest of the season until his Red Bull announcement, Pierre was dishing points place after points place after points place in only his first full season in F1. Therefore, while it was only his FIRST FULL SEASON, the jump to Red Bull ultimately felt justified.

Of course, this did not end up being the case. Our joy over Pierre getting to be in a higher team made us completely and utterly forget the track record Red Bull has left with its second drivers. For those of you who are new to F1 (either coming in 2019, mid-2019 or 2020) you missed out on Pierre’s debut season which was fantastic for the car he was given. Furthermore, if you came in during mid-2019 or 2020 and you think that the treatment RB gave to Alex is horrible--you are hardly touching the surface. The treatment that RB is giving Alex versus Pierre is like taking your sons on summer vacation and then having one of them sleep on the comfy twin bed with two blankets and the other kid on the floor without so much as PJs. We haven’t even touched upon Daniil. Daniil would be like the parents leaving the kid outside to sleep.

Let’s move on. It is very easy to look at Pierre’s season and tout only negative things. It was not his best moment and, yes, he certainly could’ve done better. However, with what he was given? Are we even sure about that? For example, Pierre become open with the media following his demotion. Not only did RB leave it to the very last moment but they also would:

1) Use Pierre’s car and car parts to test Max.

2) When Pierre requested a more experienced engineer, he was denied. However, when Alex requested the same thing, he was given it.

3) RB consistently spoke horribly of him in front of the media. They constantly spoke that he needed to do better and never tried to build him up.

4) Emotionally pressured Pierre to his breaking limit.

Now the difference between RB and many other teams is that when the going gets tough for their drivers, many teams choose to build their drivers up to set them up for success. RB’s method is to tear their drivers down and hope that they can pick up their own pieces once they become annoyed with humiliation. The demotion was far, far too quick. Think of Alex--he has been getting worse and worse and worse with a year and half of time at Red Bull. Pierre managed half a season before they gave him the boot. The boot was also without warning even despite Pierre getting better and better each race.

This is all information you probably already know, I said earlier I would touch upon his younger career and how this has been overshadowed and forgotten due to his time at RB. Here are some facts/statistics that will be important for my point later:

Finished 3rd in the French F4 championship with four wins, two poles and seven podiums over the course of only fourteen races despite having three retirements (the 2nd placer had 0 and the 1st placer only had 1).

In his first season at Eurocup Formula Renault 2.0 he finished 10th of 51 different racers and every person but one who finished before him in the championship was older than him. Pierre was only 16 when Stoffel V was 20, Daniil K was 18, Oliver R was 20, Norman N was 20, Nyck V was 17, Paul L was 21, Oscar T was 16, Melville M was 18 and Alex R was 18.

In his second season of Eurocup Formula Renault 2.0 he finished first in front of the likes of Esteban Ocon, Oliver Rowland, Jake Dennis, Nyck de Vries, Luca Ghitto and Alexander Albon.

Finished 6th in the 2013 Formula Renault 2.0 Alps Series despite missing half of the season and there being 42 competitors total (everyone ahead of him completed the full season).

Finished 2nd of 28 competitors in the 2014 Formula Renault 3.5 Series and lost to none other than Carlos Sainz Jr.

Finished 1st in his second full season of GP2 (now formally classified as F2).

The GP2 race he won in Silverstone happened right after a huge roadcar accident in which his mother ended up in the hospital. Pierre himself fractured his vertebrae and still went on to win the race while his mother was in the hospital and he had a broken bone.

Was called in to replace a Renault edams driver in Formula E. He was jet lagged, tired and got only a few hours in the sims. He still managed to secure P4 in qualifying and then was set for a P3 finish but he crashed into the wall on the last corner of the last lap and came home in P4. THIS WAS HIS FIRST TIME EVER IN AN FE RACE OR AN FE CAR.

Finished second in Super Formula in 2017 but lost by only half a point. One of the races in the season was abandoned when he was set to win because of flooding and storm. Had it not been abandoned he would’ve finished first at the end of the season.

All this pretty much brings you up to speed to when he entered into F1 (which all his amazing stuff you should be familiar with). Moving more onto my “take” regarding Pierre. I have shown evidence for why he is an incredible driver, however, now we’re moving onto the not so great bit. I suppose I must answer one question before I move on.

Do I think Pierre is good enough, against all the rest of the talent in F1, to get consistent podiums if given the proper car? Absolutely. Do I think Pierre is good enough, against all the rest of the talent in F1, to get consistent wins if given the proper car? Absolutely. Do I think Pierre is good enough, against all the rest of the talent in F1, to fight/win a championship one day if given the proper car? This I firmly believe is possible (other thing I’ll get into if someone wants).

The reason I worry and am distressed about Pierre is because I don’t believe he’ll ever get a go at a higher team again. RB really put a shadow over his career, a shadow that is going to worry other teams from placing him into their cars. He has ultimately proven himself with podiums and, of course, the race win. However, seeing as there is so much young talent coming into F1, I don't see there being a place for him.

Mercedes is set to most likely be Max and George when Lewis retires. Red Bull would never dare to put him in that seat again. Ferrari has their “golden generation” of Charles and Mick to look after. And those are the seemingly “top teams” (if you can even all Ferrari that). Let’s look at the others. Racing Point is going to be Lance and Seb until Seb retires. I don’t see Pierre ever going to Alpha Romeo. And McLaren is set up for the next few years with Lando and Daniel. Haas--I don’t think so. This is ultimately dangerous for Pierre’s career because RB likes to keep fresh meat in their B team car (or if you trust Horner it’s their “sister team” lol). Pierre’s best chance is the escape the RB family. AND I UNDERSTAND that the regulations could make things VERY different in F1 for the future. These are just my hypothesis and guesses--all is subjective and up to interpretation so @ anybody reading this--relax, buddy. So where does Pierre fit in in the future? These are some scenarios I have conjured up.

1) Mercedes. Let’s say that, possibly. Max never ends up moving into that second Merc seat and instead remains at RB wasting away until they can get him a better car for the rest of his career (ooo burn sorry it’s for the scenario don’t hate me). This would open up a place at Merc for Pierre to truly shine his potential. Most likely, he would play second fiddle to George but hey--it’s still a seat where can utilize that potential.

2) Red Bull. This would be if they get desperate. I don’t think if given a second chance, Pierre would say no. If Max were still in the team, he would be second fiddle. I can see Pierre going to RB if Max leaves for Merc in the next few years and they want him to lead Yuki or if Yuki doesn’t shine in AT and they end up dropping him they are going to be slim Pickens... I don’t know if being at RB will give him a place where he can utilize his potential but it’s a possibility.

3) Ferrari. This would be only a chance if Mick doesn’t do great in Alpha Romeo and they need someone to fill the seat of their obvious place holder Carlos. He would be alongside Charles. Other than that.... Ferrari seems pretty set and there isn’t any space.

4) McLaren. This I don’t see as very possible? I would love to see him in orange but they seem pretty set with Daniel and Lando. I think Daniel is probably going to ride out the end of his career there. Lando seems very integrated into the team and I can’t see him leaving unless he got a better offer like Merc. If Max didn’t end up taking the second Merc seat in the future and remains at RB then Lando might be given an offer which would open up a place that Pierre could possibly take. Do I count this as realistic? Not really, but it could happen. At McLaren I could see Pierre utilizing his potential.

5) Renault. This is one of the options that seems most realistic to me. They're set with Fernando for the next few years. If they decided, after 2021, to give the boot to Esteban, that would open up a place for Pierre in a French team that would love a French driver (they already have one but Pierre is a FRENCH WINNER). You know that teams loves their nationalism.... Anyways. Or, possibly, Fernando retires after two years (again lol) which would open up a seat for Pierre to take along Esteban. However, I don’t really see Esteban staying long term because Renault probably needs to put one of their Renault babies like Guanyu or Christian in there.

6) Williams. Lol. No.

7) Haas. I don’t see it happening really??? I have my reasons but my gut just says... Au revoir.

8) Racing Point. THIS. This I see as 100% 100% a possibility. Let’s say that Seb retires after two years--this would open up a seat. Pierre is a strong, consistent and stable driver who doesn’t make mistakes. Here he could really use his potential!! #PierreInGreen!!

9) Alpha Romeo. As I said... I really don’t see it. They seem pretty busy with all their young guys.

So to conclude, the future for Pierre lies at either Renault or Racing Point (less chance but possible includes Merc to McLaren). To not take up any more of your time, this is what I mean by Pierre being an incredible talent who may or may not get a chance at a higher team. He deserves to have more and to have a second chance. He has really proven himself and is pulling the absolutely maximum out of himself. I really want to see him with more, like he deserves.

Even Charles wanted him as his teammate at Ferrari back in April... that’s saying even more. Everyone on the grid except Esteban rate him highly as a person and as a driver. His potential deserves smth better. He has proven himself time and time again against everyone who told him he wasn't good enough and who still say it was all just luck. There exists luck. But firmer than luck, there exists skill.

Pierre Gasly is a race winner in an Alpha Tauri. Do not forget that.

#oh fuck this is long lol #pierre gasly #flood pressles box #sincerely anonymous

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