#since there are elements in rose's room eps that hint at the idea of the room's autonomy(???) being a reflection of rose

[bloodsbane]

one thing ive noticed watching blind/live reactions to SU, particularly when we start learning more about Rose (and then Pink) in the latter half of the series, is this idea that Rose never really suffered consequences for any of the bad things she did. and yeah i suppose if youre going through the show for the first time - especially if you're not watching as it airs, so absorbing a lot of information in a way shorter time without processing it alongside other fans - it's easy to come to that interpretation of things. the show even brings it up, this idea that Rose's choice to have Steven was so she wouldn't have to face the consequences of all her past choices

personally, i truly don't think that's the case. but it made me start thinking about something in a new way, sparked by Rose's tape to Steven. she says, "We can't both exist. I'm going to become half of you. And I need you to know that every moment that you love being yourself, that's me! Loving you and loving being you!"

i take this sentiment to heart. in a way, yes, i do think Rose wanted to escape who she was, but again, that's a discussion for another time. what i want to focus on is the idea that this means Rose - in whatever way you'd prefer to interpret it - is WITH Steven throughout the entirety of his life, and the thus the events of the show. and if she can feel Steven's love for himself, for others, for existing just as himself... that means she also feels his sadness, anger, frustration, despair.

...this is difficult ground to tread without making it sound like anything resembling 'rose/pink = steven', although i hope the fact that the show itself handily refutes this is enough to undercut such a reading. what i mean to say is, in a way, Steven dealing with everything in the show is also Rose dealing with it. if we generously accept the idea that her 'spirit' or what have you lives with Steven, if not as Steven, and that she to an extent does experience what he does, then it kind of adds a new layer to the way you watch the show. a really interesting one!

because i think one of the most difficult things to consider with SU, especially once you get through it the first time, is the idea or feeling that Rose's story just... stops. and there's so much leftover that needs to be resolved. i mean, hell, that's the entire point of the show to an extent. Steven dealing with what she leaves behind. but i think there's something nice in the idea that Steven does not only inherit powers or thousand-year-old problems from his mother - he also inherits her love of freedom and life, of family and friends, and a heart that wants to find solutions to problems in a way that doesn't hurt anyone else.

i guess think of it in this way: if Steven is able to see his mother's memories, to feel what she felt in those moments, who is to say that Rose, in whatever way she continues to exist (even if only as a concept), does not also feel what Steven does?

i'll tell you, this has been an interesting way to re-experience the show. i think it adds a lot to the bitter-sweetness of Rose's relationship to Steven. i thinks she loved him so much, even if it was only the idea of him and what he represented to her. and i kind of love to think that, even if it is only some metaphysical concept of Rose that now rests forever inside her gem, dormant but for the power and life she's bequeathed to her son, Rose recognizes the trials that Steven is going through and aches for him. that she would hold him, if only she could.

#banebabbles #fuckin uh. #su meta #steven universe #i need yall to be cool w me on this one i stg im not saying rose is like. still Alive #it's the Vibe. the Feeling. the Concept #rose is gone but like the heart of her is not #crying bc this especially makes storm in the room like. A Lot #shakes my fist at the sugar woman for making it so delightfully ambiguous how much of that ep was steven talking to himself #since there are elements in rose's room eps that hint at the idea of the room's autonomy(???) being a reflection of rose #or SOMETHING #IDK #IT'S 2022 HERE'S SOME SU META JUST TAKE IT

[feebtastic]

On Rose: Finn, the Stormtroopers & Reylo

Let’s me start by saying how much I love Rose Tico and the qualities she represents. Kelly Marie Tran did such a phenomenal job in the film, making me fall in love with this character at first sight. Down to earth, fierce and compassionate, Rose is above all devoted to the cause to fight against the FO, not to become a hero but to do the right thing. Rose’s dedication to the Resistance and her fighting spirit are her greatest strengths.  

I was therefore especially happy to get more of her thoughts and feelings in Jason Fry’s novelization. There’s one particular passage that I really love and wish to explore here:

“Rose didn’t know what to think about the fact that a man trained to be a First Order stormtrooper could be innocent enough to assume a feral, unapologetic thief actually owned a fancy yacht. She supposed it made her feel simultaneously better and worse about the galaxy. On the one hand, maybe there were painfully naïve young men behind many more of those expressionless, skull-like helmets—lost boys who’d never been allowed to have so much as their own name. On the other hand, battalions made up of those lost boys had destroyed Rose’s homeworld and so many others. How much more ruin and misery would they inflict on the galaxy? How many more people would they rob of loved ones? Rose had never heard of another First Order stormtrooper shaking off his brainwashing and refusing to carry out the murderous orders he’d been given. Maybe Finn was the only one.”

Chapter 22, Jason Fry. “The Last Jedi: Expanded Edition.

The line “She supposed it made her feel simultaneously better and worse about the galaxy” initially puzzled me a bit. Rose sure has lots of reasons to feel worse about the galaxy but what makes her feel better? And it’s not only about Finn. Let’s break down this excerpt and consider what it means for Finnrose and even Reylo in Ep. IX.

I. On Rose and the Stormtroopers

Firstly, I love that her time spent with Finn has allowed Rose to consider something she might never have thought of before, that Stormtroopers could be ‘innocent’, ‘naive,’ and most of all, even ‘lost.’ Rose has witnessed the atrocities that the FO and their Stormtroopers had inflicted on her home planet. She must have heard of many other planets’ destruction since joining the Resistance. And before meeting Finn, these ST were probably just faceless monsters to her. These soldiers wear “expressionless, skull-like helmets”, embodying the death and devastation left in their wake. While recalling the exploitation she’d witness on Otomok, her home planet, Rose was “pale with anger”. But just as Rey has realized that beneath Kylo’s terrifying mask is a broken young man, a lost and terrified boy, Rose also realizes that there might be more ‘Finns’ in the FO. There might exist more “naive young men” who have not been allowed any kind of identity or knowledge beside what makes them “well-engineered cogs in [the FO’s] war machine, designed to further its murderous work.” (Chapter 24)

Secondly, the multiple use of ‘maybe’ suggests how tentative Rose’s thought is. She feels pity and sympathy for these troopers, these “lost boys (and girls) who’d never been allowed so much as their own name.” Would they not be considered victims of the FO as well? Kidnapped and brainwashed, would these Stormtroopers know any better than what has been drilled into them?

Perhaps the answer is no, Rose thinks, they wouldn’t know any better. Battalions of these troopers are inflicting “ruin and misery on the galaxy” after all. There’s also a sense of resignation in Rose’s last thought: how “she’s never heard of” another deserted trooper and so “maybe Finn was the only one.”

To me, Rose feels better about the galaxy because there might be Stormtroopers who are not inherently evil and murderous monsters, but lost boys whose minds have been twisted to do the FO’s bidding. She feels worse because these lost boys ARE following orders to kill, destroy & oppress.

More than that, I think Rose feels better because there’s a glimmer of hope in the form of Finn, who has somehow done the impossible and was able to escape the FO’s grueling conditioning. Finn represents the hope that goodness and humanity can survive against all odds, even against a system that was built to snuff out these qualities from its soldiers. But Rose also feels worse because there might ONLY EVER be Finn, a single Stormtrooper who could rebel against the system. Finn being an outlier, an exception is in that way both better and worse.

II. On Finnrose

The given excerpt is such an interesting addition because it demonstrates Rose’s character development in TLJ beyond her feelings for Finn, which we see more clearly in the film. Rose’s interactions with him have allowed her to rethink the human identities involved in the war, esp. those on the opposing side. Among all the characters who have interacted with Finn, Rose was the only one who wonders about the larger implication of Finn’s desertion. She questions, even only briefly, whether there are or could be more Finns out there. Maybe Finn was the only one who could break free from the FO on his own, but with the right catalysts, could more follow his steps?

The passage also shows how Rose is Finn’s most suitable counterpart in the Sequel trilogy. On the one hand, Rose is one of the more mature characters in the ST. Paired with her, Finn, who has been isolated from the outside world from birth, is able to learn and grow. In TLJ, Rose has shown Finn what she and the Resistance are fighting for: for freedom, against the injustice done to her home planet, for the oppressed and exploited across the galaxy. Finn thus gains reasons to stop running and join the fight. On the other hand, the learning doesn’t only go one way. Rose has also learned many things about the FO from Finn and not just from infiltrating the Supremacy, as was clear from the excerpt.  As a result, in IX, I expect Finn’s arc to be him finding a role in the revitalized Resistance. And Rose, with her own newly gained knowledge about the FO, could again work in tandem with Finn (under/alongside Poe) to help shape the Resistance’s strategies.

While Finn has mostly contributed his knowledge of key FO weapons and technologies to the Resistance in TFA and TLJ, I wonder if he would be able to supply even more powerful insights about the human elements within the FO going forward.

In the TLJ junior novelization, prior to his execution, Finn thought this:

If Finn was going to die now, at least he could rest well knowing he had tried to help his friends make a difference in the galaxy. He had only one regret. He wished he could have convinced other troopers to do the same.

Perhaps in IX, we’ll see Finn and Rose discuss the Stormtrooper program, Finn’s experience in it and how he wishes he had tried to convince other troopers to turn while on the Supremacy. It seems quite plausible then that Finn and Rose could together plan and realize a Stormtrooper rebellion from these musings. Finn’s intention has been shown above. And Rose’s thoughts in the excerpt that starts this post suggest that if Finn voices his intent in Ep. IX, Rose would be able to see where he’s coming from and understand the potential of that idea. While nothing much about a potential rebellion has been hinted at    within the first 2 films (beyond these tidbits in the novelizations), I believe that if he wants to, JJ can still pursue this storyline in next film.

III. On Rose and Reylo

Last but not least, I find that Finnrose and Reylo have more parallels than I’ve previously thought.

In TLJ, Rose is not only coming to terms with her own grief but also with the real person and motivation behind Finn’s hero image post Starkiller Base. Her initial hero worship of Finn was from a somewhat simplistic point of view, (just as Rey’s view of Kylo as a ‘murderous snake’ was.) Reality, Rose finds, is much more complicated. While his desire to take the beacon and flee (to save Rey) is not entirely selfish, Finn also hasn’t had a reason to join the Resistance cause. Though Finn had returned once to the FO to save his friend, all he wants to do at the start of TLJ is to continue his run since TFA, mostly out of fear. This fear is the result of his years in the FO, of having been disciplined and punished to elicit obedience, and of knowing the FO’s terrifying military capabilities. Knowing what he knows, the most realistic action is to run. Throughout the film (and the book), Rose gradually realizes that she needs to “give him a break”, that he might need time to really shake off the pernicious effects of his oppressive Master, to find the courage and desire to be in the fight, and to find his belonging.

“Maybe it hadn’t just been his infatuation with Rey that had driven him to flee, she thought—maybe he’d also been trying to escape unfamiliar surroundings in which he was alone and didn’t fit in.” (Chapter 24)

Isn’t this what Rey also realized about Ben after the throne room scene to an extent? That the choice to turn and what to do after that turn is a complicated and difficult one?

“Luke’s error had been to assume that Ben Solo’s future was predetermined—that his choice had been made. Her error had been to assume that Kylo Ren’s choice was simple—that turning on Snoke was the same as rejecting the pull of the darkness.” (Chap. 29) (or the same as joining the Resistance)

While both Finn and Kylo had done the right things, the selfless things at some point (Finn helping the Resistance on SB and even with the Canto Bight mission, Kylo killing Snoke), they were not ready to immediately join a new cause or to change their long-held paths. But as I’ve described above, both Rey and Rose see the glimmer of hope and the goodness within both men. Similar to how Finn still retains a good heart despite all his Stormtrooper training, it is incredible that Kylo still feels compassion for Rey (and Finn at the beginning of TFA), remorse after Han’s death, and love for his mother. Even after a lifetime of manipulation and abuse by Snoke. Although Finn and Kylo are surely at different stages of their journey, I believe the parallels are there. While Finn was able to escape the FO in TFA, the shadow of what he endured as a Stormtrooper remains with him long after. It was only with time, others’ help and inspiration that Finn realizes the cause he truly believes in and find the strength & courage to fight for it.

And so will Ben Solo.

Many have said that Rose will be one of the first people to understand Rey and Kylo’s connection and Rey’s belief in Kylo’s goodness, and I wholeheartedly agree. Rose’d definitely know what it means to focus on saving those one loves, rather than just destroying the things one hates. Not only that, given the above excerpts, it is also clear that after TLJ, Rose has gained a more complex understanding of her enemies. There’ll surely be ruthless and remorseless individuals in the FO, like Hux or Phasma. But there might exist lost boys (and girls), who are killing, hurting because of years of manipulation & conditioning. Finn’s escape represents the hope that perhaps all is not lost. Finally, I think Rose will also understand that not everyone can make the right and selfless choice all at once, or all the time, even if that choice comes more naturally to others. Even if there’s goodness in someone, it might take time for them to choose to follow the hard path or the right cause.

All in all, Finn and Rose’s individual development and dynamics in TLJ are some of my favorite things about the film. Their relationship, though not as angst-filled and brimming with sexual/romantic tension like Rey and Kylo, still presents some of the most interesting ideas and concepts in the Sequel Trilogy. If Reylo has the epic trappings and mystery of the Force, Finnrose deals with the war in Star Wars on a more on-the-ground level, where troops and technicians dwell. However, both represent themes about hope, faith in love and in the goodness of others.

Just some of my thoughts. What do you think? How are you imagining Finn and Rose’s arcs in IX? What’s your wishlist for these two?

#finnrose #rose tico #sw meta #reylo #my meta