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banitesithbossbitch · 2 days ago
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Can’t stop thinking about how Sidious pulled up on Maul and Savage Opress in the “celebration for freeing naboo but I’m also the chancellor” fit from The Phantom Menace
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You know when he busting out the celebration fit you finna die. Sheev ain’t playing no games with a bitch today
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david-talks-sw · 27 days ago
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How the “Obi-Wan failed Anakin” subplot was retconned by George Lucas.
So an argument I see a lot in some “Obi-Wan failed Anakin” posts is saying “Ben failed Luke’s father, he said it himself in ROTJ”.
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Now, while I could simply quote LucasFilm creative executive Pablo Hidalgo, who tweeted in 2017...
“If a fictional character thinks something, it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re right.”
... and leave it at that, I think it’s interesting to see just how far the “Obi-Wan failed Anakin” subplot went with Lucas, before he retconned it into something else entirely.
The original subplot:
In a story conference for Episode VI that was first transcribed in 1981 and later collected in The Making of Return of the Jedi (2013), Lucas discussed this with Lawrence Kasdan and Richard Marquand:
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“Ben [takes] the blame for Vader. “I should have given him more training. I should have sent him to Yoda, but I thought I could do it myself. It was my own pride in thinking that I could be as good a teacher as Yoda. I wish that I could stop the pestilence that I’ve unleashed on the galaxy.” His burden is that he feels responsible for everything that Vader has done.”
And in an interview done with in 1996, collected in the book The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005 (which I highly recommend getting, so insightful) Lucas discussed how he planned on portraying Obi-Wan in one of the earliest screenplay drafts for The Phantom Menace:   
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“The story has Obi-Wan as a young Jedi in his mid-twenties. He’s ambitious and takes on the mentorship of this kid who starts out about eight or nine years old. […] Even though he’s too old to start the training of a Jedi, Obi-Wan feels the Force is so strong with him that he has to train him as a Jedi. […] Obi-Wan begins as this strong Jedi character but when you see all six movies, you’ll see that what Ben is doing with Luke is very close to the same mistake he made with Anakin.”
So Obi-Wan was the only Jedi we saw for the first half of the script.
And, by the way... he wasn’t always in his mid-twenties. As concept artist Ian McCaig puts it:
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“Obi-Wan’s age changed all over the place — at one point he was substantially older, like a youngish 50. For a long time we had a character who was samurai-like, with a ponytail and long sideburns.”
So hey, bottom line (and as illustrated below by artist Doug Chiang):
Obi-Wan, alone, comes to negotiate with the Trade Federation. Just like he and Qui-Gon did in the final cut, he fights his way off the ship, he rescues the Queen...
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... and he finds Anakin. 
He is impressed by his skills with the Force. He decides to bring him to the Jedi and he insists that Anakin should be trained.
So far, this is consistent with what is mentioned in Return of the Jedi, and it’s clear that, at this point in time, the narrative Lucas was originally going for was the notion that: “In his ambition and arrogance, Obi-Wan trained Anakin but overestimated his own abilities as a teacher, which ultimately resulted in the creation of Darth Vader.”  
Bringing in Qui-Gon:
But months later, when tackling a newer draft of the script, Lucas decided to split Obi-Wan’s impact on the story into two… and that’s when he made the decision to give a bigger role to another Jedi who originally appeared much later in the film. 
Thus was created a Jedi mentor for Obi-Wan called Qui-Gon Jinn.
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“I wasn’t able to develop Obi-Wan’s character fast enough. When I got through the rough draft I realized that I had a second Jedi that comes in about halfway through the script who is an interesting character and the more I thought about it the more I thought of things I could do with these two Jedi together because one alone didn’t have much to react to.”
And when I looked further into it... this isn’t actually new information!
This was also mentioned in the old Databank on earlier versions of StarWars.com, and in The Art of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace, in which they also explain that they briefly considered making Qui-Gon be Obi-Wan’s Padwan, and having Ewan McGregor playing “Padawan Qui-Gon”, before they finally settled on having Obi-Wan be the apprentice instead.
Other fun fact: there’s a scanned copy of the 1997 shooting script online (you can download it here)... and in it, you’ll notice that in the scene where they have dinner at Shmi’s house, some of the character description still reads “OBI-WAN” instead of “QUI-GON”, because they forgot to replace some of them :D
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But as a result of bringing in Qui-Gon and shifting around the character dynamics, the decision of ambitiously taking Anakin in no longer falls on Obi-Wan… but on Qui-Gon.
How the addition of Qui-Gon changed the subplot:
If we look at things objectively, Qui-Gon saw a boy with an enormous M-count and massive potential in the Force, and figured “this kid must be the Chosen One”. And part of Qui-Gon’s character is that he feels, instead of thinking… he uses his instincts. And his instincts are never wrong (or so he thinks).
But while Qui-Gon’s instincts are correct (Anakin is indeed the Chosen One, no question there), he’s going about it the wrong way.
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“So here we’re having Qui-Gon wanting to skip the early training and jump right to taking him on as his Padawan learner, which is controversial, and ultimately, the source of much of the problems that develop later on.”
 - The Phantom Menace, Director’s Commentary, 1999
“I think it is obvious that [Qui-Gon] was wrong in Episode I and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct.”
 - Cut Magazine, 1999
He’s insisting this kid become a Padawan at once, without having him spend some time with the younglings to adjust… and everyone else is saying that that’s crazy. Cuz it is. But he is unable to consider the fact that he’s mistaken. 
His instincts are never wrong, right? So he just keeps pushing for it.
Then he gets killed and with his dying breath, he forces the task of training Anakin onto Obi-Wan, who hasn’t even gone through the Trials, yet.
So right here, the original subplot has been retconned:
Obi-Wan no longer takes Anakin on because he’s an ambitious big-shot Jedi who arrogantly goes ‘pfft, if Yoda can do it, I can too’.
Instead, at the start, he takes Anakin on reluctantly... not because Anakin’s a problem, but because Obi-Wan feels that he, as a Master, won’t be up to the task. 
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Still, he steps up and takes on the responsibility. And while the task itself is ambitious, Obi-Wan doesn’t do it for the “glory of training the Chosen One”. He’s just keeping a promise, by being there for a 9-year-old kid who was taken away from his mother and whose paternal figure just died.
He decides to train the boy, honoring Qui-Gon’s memory. 
The new subplot:
Now, while Obi-Wan’s fear that he may be inexperienced may be accurate in some areas...  it isn’t in others. Namely, Obi-Wan’s ability to deal with a personality like Anakin’s.
Anakin had many character traits in common with Qui-Gon, including the following flaws:
They’re both headstrong, unruly mavericks.
Neither is very forthcoming about their own emotions.
Some people are outgoing, and need someone who will listen. Others are not, and need someone who will ask them and get them to talk. Anakin and Qui-Gon are examples of the latter. They get lost in their own thoughts and don’t open up unless they are pressed.
But this means that Obi-Wan already had experience dealing with this sort of personality before taking on Anakin. So he knows exactly what to do.
Whether Anakin is stressed...
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... or is just bottling up his feelings...
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... most of the time, Obi-Wan will get Anakin to open up.
(credit to @ashleyeckstein​ for that last GIF)
As Lucas said:
“One of the primary issues between this relationship between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon is that this is establishing Obi-Wan as the kind of straight arrow, the center of the movie, and Qui-Gon as the rebel, as the one who’s constantly sort of pushing the envelope. Which will switch itself in the next movie when, rather than having his master be the rebel, he has his Padawan learner become the rebel. I’m using Obi-Wan as sort of this centering device through all these movies, even as we get in with Luke and everybody else later on.” - The Phantom Menace, Director’s Commentary, 1999
Obi-Wan is a centering device.
He’s not so dogmatic that he will do anything the Jedi Council says, though he will try to stay within the lines. That said, you can change his mind, if your point is valid, unlike Qui-Gon who will hunker down on his own stance. 
Obi-Wan is the middle ground (despite what the memes say 😃).
He’s the stable Yin to chaotic Yangs like Qui-Gon or Anakin.
So it turns out that pairing Anakin with a master like Obi-Wan... is actually a great fit! They complement each other, there’s a symbiosis.
And so he trains and practically raises Anakin as a paternal/fraternal figure, they become friends. Then, when Anakin is knighted, they become equals.
Anakin becomes an almost-perfect Jedi Knight, despite the terrible odds he faced. He is brave, kind, generous, powerful, loyal, he’s the best fighter pilot in the galaxy. He is more street-smart than your average Jedi, he has political connections like Bail or Padmé. He’s training a Padawan mere months after being knighted. By the end of the Clone War, this guy’s in the Top 3 fighters of the Jedi Order.
Anakin becomes a goddamn superstar, in the Jedi Order. And Obi-Wan is very proud of the man he’s grown up to be, despite the odds he was facing.
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So eventually, Obi-Wan leaves for a mission which could turn out to be just a wild Bantha chase... he imparts one last lesson, says his goodbyes to Anakin...
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... and comes back to this.
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He is understandably devastated... and, of course, in true Jedi fashion, he blames himself:
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But here’s the thing. 
Forget that Obi-Wan is the ultimate selfless Jedi. Let’s put that aside.
Any parent would blame themselves for how their kid turned out. And sometimes? They’d be right to do so. 
This isn’t one of those times. 
Obi-Wan did his best; and Anakin’s choices - influenced though they may have been - were his own.
And that’s the new moral of Obi-Wan’s story, in the Prequels, according to Lucas.
“When you’re in this position as a mentor, whether you’re an actual father or not, this person is your charge, but you have no control over how they’re going to use that knowledge. [...] You hope they’ll turn out okay, you hope they do the right things, you hope you raised them right, and all that stuff. But there’s no guarantee or anything. You never know what’s going to happen. That’s the challenge.”
Obi-Wan will never stop thinking he shares some blame in his boy’s downfall. We see that he eventually is able to see things more objectively in From A Certain Point Of View, though, clearly, in Return of the Jedi part of him still feels he is somewhat at fault.
But we, the audience, know: he did his best.
And if his teachings hadn’t been regularly sabotaged by Palpatine for 13 years, if the Devil himself hadn’t manipulated Anakin and turned his own fears against him... Obi-Wan’s best would’ve been enough.
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communistkenobi · 8 months ago
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another refreshing thing about The Mandalorian is that Din is never really squeamish around the kid in the way a lot of new-single-dad humour is set up in other TV shows. he’s definitely very cautious and uncertain when he interacts with the kid early on, but there is never a scene in the show where he’s deliberately portrayed as incompetent or unreliable around children, and most of the tension surrounding his relationship with the baby is about managing the care of an infant while simultaneously having an extremely dangerous job. the only time in the show when he’s chastised wrt his treatment of the kid is by Peli in Chapter 5, when he leaves the kid on his ship while he goes to find work. but the show also makes it clear on multiple occasions that, again, he’s doing it because he has no other option, not because he genuinely believes it’s a good idea to leave a baby alone in a ship unsupervised.
Din’s character is absent of a lot of traditionally masculine tropes that are endemic to much of the media his character is inspired from, but one that is especially surprising (and welcome) is that he’s never portrayed as a dumb guy who doesn’t know how babies work. he’s allowed to be out of his depth with the kid without it being a gendered thing.
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aghsoka · 4 months ago
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i wonder how much of the jedi's life involves childcare.
not just *teaching the younglings* but having to collectively raise them. the saying that goes, "it takes a village to raise a child" is likely how the order operates since no one has 'parents' in the convetional sense. perhaps even part of one's duties and studies during their padawan phase involves a few hours of babysitting in the week - only for them to grow into knighthood and realize that child rearing doesnt exactly end...
now, pls imagine any of your fav jedi in any of the following:
potty training a 2 year old
having to teach them that "no, the temple walls are not to be drawn on..."
having to solve some kiddie drama because some youngling kept calling their peer a 'stinky poodoo head'
"okay bad news, one of them escaped the temple - good news, they can't have gone too far!"
fierce debates about whose parenting style is ruining the younglings
jedi knights snickering at their horrendously awkward friend with no parental instinct barely keep the peace when they're on youngling duty
"I don't care what Master Fisto lets you do, I say you have to be in bed by 20:00!"
speaking of bed time, night duty probably sounds like a breeze...until you have to escort several young kids throughout the night to the bathroom (the temple halls are scary at night!), escort them to the mess hall for a glass of water, coax them back to sleep after they've awoken from a nightmare, and of course prevent any mischievous little ones from coveting a midnight snack
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gizkalord · 2 months ago
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Rebels was so unhinged but in a good way. Space whales. Space wolves. Local boy throws himself into the vacuum of space with his enemy with help of said space whales. But at the same time the whole series built up the idea of Ezra’s innate and spiritual connection to lothal and how it was manifested/symbolized by his affinity for animals. Plus the concept of the natural world triumphing over the machine of the Empire. So it ends up all making sense somehow
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revenge-of-the-shit · 4 months ago
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99% of the discourse surrounding the Jedi would disappear if people actually defined the word “attachments” as the way George Lucas defined them (i.e. possessive, destructive love) instead treating it as a synonym for healthy love
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marxistmandalorian · 7 months ago
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Clone wars era social media where the clones have gained access to whatever the equivalent of social media is. They also have their own specific internal communication network for their own sanity / shit posting. The communication officers developed it first and began using it before it spread to ship maintenance, then to engineering and sanitation- the GI clones got wind of it before long and that was it.
Of course having their own specific means of secure communication and networking changes things, probably, like maybe it helps to humanize the clones towards the public at large. When the first clone starts posting things publicly; slice of life stuff from the GAR (but nothing mission critical, of course).
Shots of rations on a battlefield, new gear issued (it fits!! ... clone humor), there’s one clone who just posts shots of sunrises from every planet they go to (he says it gives him peace)
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gayratfivesmantitties · 9 months ago
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Okay I see many people getting angry over the finale and let's... let's just calm down and think things through okay?
First of all, don't worry about Mando and Baby being separated. Disney ISN'T going to throw away the dynamic that MADE the show popular. This is just hype for the next season.
Before jumping to conclusions about the baby being killed by Kyle, remember that the Luke we saw in TFA in TAHT flashback, was old Luke. Here we have young Luke. The Kyle incident isn't going to happen in at least some years, and Mando IS going to go look for the baby, don't worry.
The show isn't going to change to be Boba's now. This feels like it's going to be a new series for him, or at least a mini series. "But why didn't they announce it with the rest of the shows?" because that's what the surprise was lol. They would have spoilered part of the finale by announcing it earlier.
And most importantly. Remember that Disney cares about money, they're NOT going to break apart the story that made this show to be so popular and got the fans investing on it.
So, it's going to be okay! We'll get Din and Grogu back together to be the space family we all love.
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beskars · 9 months ago
I feel like people are going to be mad about din removing his helmet but I think what it’s leading to is him realizing he can be a Mandalorian without having hide his face. Hide himSELF. Especially because he has now met so many Mandalorians who remove their helmets.
okay sorry in advance for party rocking but i have a lot of thoughts and feelings on this so this is going to be a bit of a lengthy response.
from the very beginning of this series, we’ve seen almost everyone that din comes into contact with make remarks about his helmet and assert their own beliefs about how oppressive they find the creed to be. 
however, din himself never gives us any indication that he agrees with their statements, and when omera — who is the only character to really ask him what it means to follow the creed rather than imposing her own beliefs on him — expresses surprise at the fact that he hasn’t shown anyone his face since he was a child, he responds that he was happy that the mandalorians took him in. he is not a prideful character, but he does have a deep sense of pride when it comes to doing right by the ones that took him in after his parents were killed. abiding by the creed is not a penance to him, it is a privilege. 
while bo-katan and her crew may have been the first mandalorians he met that did not follow the creed, i feel like his exchange with her only served to make him more distrustful of those who don’t rather than opening his mind to the possibility of a life beyond it. din may respect her capabilities as a warrior, but bo-katan lied to din and changed the terms of their agreement once it was too late for him to back out, which is highly dishonorable. her impact on him was not positive, and i do not believe he values her opinion enough for it to have any influence on his belief system.
din didn’t need further validation of his own beliefs, but his exchange with boba fett in regard to boba’s status as a mandalorian likely had more of an impact than anything bo-katan said to him. where bo-katan dismissed din’s beliefs as zealotry, boba accepted din’s dedication to the creed without question and even made a point to explain his lineage so that din could be at peace with returning the armor to him when boba could have simply taken it and left. there is a much higher level of respect and understanding between them, and it doesn’t hinge on either of them adjusting their mandalorian identities to suit the other.
all of that being said, the removal of his helmet in this episode was not influenced by anything other than sheer desperation to get his child back. he says right before entering the officer’s mess that if they don’t get the coordinates, he’ll lose the kid forever. and while he may be perceived as voluntarily going against the creed, he is following one of the core tenets of being a mandalorian, defending one’s family, as laid forth in the code of honor. this is the only choice.
even if din did for whatever reason re-evaluate his beliefs, i sincerely doubt that he would ever choose to remove the helmet in a room full of imperials — the same imperials that purged mandalore — and voluntarily submit to his face being recorded by the empire. if that had not been such a thoroughly traumatic event for him, i don’t think he would have put a helmet back on the very second he was able to, and he wouldn’t have bothered wearing one when he recorded the holo for moff gideon either.
if we do see din voluntarily remove his helmet on the series, i believe it will be in front of grogu and still be in accordance with the creed as he will have finally accepted that grogu is his family, in which case showing grogu his face would be permitted. which i sincerely hope is the case, because having din renounce his beliefs for no reason but to appease others would just be a very disheartening direction to go in.
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monjustmon · 2 months ago
How much of “the Jedi didn’t go free the slaves” do you think is taken from a misinterpretation of or not remembering the dialogue? When Anakin assumed he (Qui-Gon) was on Tatooine to free the slaves (“have you come to free us?”), Qui-Gon says no, Anakin asks why else they would be there, and Qui-Gon explains. I’m mainly referencing the transcript, but...
No, these Jedi were not on Tatooine for the purpose of freeing slaves, they were on Tatooine because they needed to get from Naboo to Coruscant as quickly as possible on their mission to help the Queen of Naboo stop the invasion of Naboo, but their ship broke down and they needed to fix it and Tatooine was the closest planet they could hide on away from the Trade Federation. (Other Jedi might have been trying to free slaves on the other side of the planet, for all we know. And now that we know Quinlan is canon, it makes that even more likely.)
The idea that the Jedi are flat out never helping slaves is all misinterpretation and assumption.
People take the existance of slavery at all to mean the Jedi are not doing anything about it, discounting that to destroy slavery, you sort of need not only organization and a plan to free slaves effectively, to fill up the power vacuum of the slavers and previous economic system, which requires resources and support that the Jedi simply do not have, but also, you need a fighting force fierce enough to defeat the criminal organizations quickly enough that they won't go underground and begin their slave trade elsewhere. (There are only 10,000 Jedi Knights in the galaxy at that moment. For perspective, that is 7,800 times less than the total asexual human population of Earth.) Heck, to go through that process so forcefully would be taking attributions that the Jedi have no business taking, because they are not an authoritarian organization, they are a religious order with a vow a service. They are not judge and executioner of anybody.
To expect Qui-Gon to go deal with slavers and free slaves like a sort of superhero just because he happens to be there at that moment is entirely unrealistic. And that is without even going into in-universe complications, like the explosive chips inside every Tatooine slave, which can be triggered manually or automatically if the slave leaves a certain area of servitude. Qui-Gon can't even whisk some slaves away to safety without the proper equipment and team. Of course he isn't going to free slaves if that wasn't his exact mission. Qui-Gon says he is not there to free slaves, (tho he does try to free Schmi!) but it is important to understand that he never outright says that the Jedi don't oppose slavery, because if he had said that, he would have been lying.
What more obvious case do we have than the whole Zygerrian arc? In one of the links above, there is reference to how the Zygerrian's slaving and other criminal activity has been historically opposed by the Jedi, and about how Jedi preoccupation with the war gave them some breathing space to continue. The whole arc is about the Jedi trying to free slaves. Another instance, also mentioned in the links above, is in the canon-approved book Master & Apprentice, where the Jedi prevent through political means the enslaving of over a million people. The Jedi will step in when they can, and their instinctive approach is subterfuge, because when slavers find out they are being opposed, they are not against using their enslaved as collateral. Infiltration is the best low-key way Jedi have to free people when the chance arises. And while I generally don't like using Legends material because it doesn't have any weight for the George Lucas Canon, it is a great source from which to explore possibilities, as long as these do not contradict canon knowledge. There we have several instances of Jedi Shadows like Siri and Tholme going out on covert missions to bring down slavers/free slaves. Quinlan is also understood to be a Jedi Shadow in those continuities. And so, since Quinlan is canon confirmed to have been infiltrated on Tatooine, it is not at all a great leap to think he was there to free slaves.
Even assuming that the Jedi never helped Schmi is quite daring, quite out there. Schmi was freed through financing, through the money accumulated between her and Cliegg to buy her freedom. We know that Qui-Gon sold the race pod to give Schmi money. In the book Tatooine Ghost, which is Legends (again, not canon, but possibilities!), the Jedi send in valuable machinery to Schmi and Cliegg, which they then sell and use to free Schmi. I have never personally liked that possibility, because in helping buy Schmi, you are just supporting the system. I would much rather think Jedi are using the financing they have on covert missions, even if the slaves freed are not Schmi, though I know many fans would feel differently. It could have gone either way, though.
In any case, assumptions. People like the narrative where they can blame the Jedi for the slavery in the galaxy, and so, they think that because Qui-Gon specifically, single-handely, didn't intervine in Tatooine, that the Jedi as a whole do not oppose slavery. The material we do have, however, opposes this narrative. When the Jedi can and have the right to, they will and do help anybody that they can.
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banitesithbossbitch · a month ago
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I’m always like “the Jedi dumb as fuck like dooku literally told them who Sidious was.” Then I remember what Sidious looks like
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I can’t even blame the Jedi because a bitch wouldn’t believe you if you told me Sheev Palpatine was Darth Sidious—dark lord of the sith—unless I already knew in the behind the scenes bc I’m apart the audience
Y’all on the Jedi’s top 24/7, blaming them for this shit when Sidious intentionally looks like he can’t lift 30 pounds. The Jedi don’t know how it ends like we did.
You see Sheev Palpatine without the context, you like “this man a lil politician who literally can’t do shi to anyone.” Not knowing he’s the slimiest, baddest bitch in the whole galaxy.
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david-talks-sw · 20 days ago
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Debunking myths about the Jedi Order and slavery in the GFFA.
Figured I’d start a thread where we take these commonly repeated statements and debunk them one by one (some of the arguments below come from another post I wrote in February.. buuuut now they’re actually framed in a decent structure).
“The Jedi condoned slavery”.
Not in Republic space, they didn’t.
Slavery is outlawed by the Republic.
The Jedi operate within the Republic’s borders.
The Jedi have no jurisdiction in the Outer Rim, i.e. Hutt Space.
When somebody tries to have slaves within Republic space?
They get destroyed.
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The Zygerians had a whole slave empire. But because they dared trade in Republic territory, they got beaten so hard they now trade in the Outer Rim at a fraction of their former strength. News of this spread, to the rest of the galaxy (even on Tatooine): don’t fuck with the Jedi in Republic territory.
But that happened quite a while before the Prequels, and it happened with support and backing from the Senate.
Gotta keep in mind, by this point in time, they’re not the swashbuckling warriors that they were 1,000 years ago anymore.
They’re diplomats.
They cannot fight a war; they are keepers of the peace, not soldiers.
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“Jedi are always sort of fighting this reality of the fact that they're, in essence, diplomats. They sort of persuade people to do the right thing, but their job isn't really to go around fighting people.” - E! Behind the Scenes - Revenge of the Sith, 2005
If a planet in the Republic has a problem, a Jedi is sent to fix that problem. If there is conflict with another planet, they solve it, so that it doesn’t escalate, ergo, keeping the peace. Beyond Republic borders? They have no jurisdiction.
I’m honestly baffled this is even a thing, cuz I have yet to see someone criticize a policeman or an ambassador for not going to Bangladesh with a battalion and freeing the slaves there. Those are obviously decisions made above their paygrade.
In the Galactic Republic, those decisions are made by the Senate.
The Jedi serve the will of the Senate.
“I didn't want Vader to be all-powerful. In the first film it was very easy to make him some kind of superhero. But I decided not to do that. In fact, he is [the Dark Lord] working for the Emperor, and he has to do the Emperor's bidding. You will see at some point in the future that the Jedi have the same relationship to the Republic; they're like public servants, they're like marshals or policemen. They basically do what they're told to do. They're not independent agents who can do whatever they want.” - Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays, 1998
And the Senate - not the Jedi - grew corrupt.
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“For a thousand years, the Old Republic prospered and grew under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the venerable Jedi Knights. But as often happens when wealth and power grow beyond all reasonable proportion, an evil fueled by greed arose. The massive organs of commerce mushroomed in power, the Senate became corrupt, and an ambitious named Palpatine was voted Supreme Chancellor.” - Shatterpoint, Prologue, 
2004
By the time of the Prequels, the Senate is mostly run by a bunch of self-serving A-holes who very much like the status quo, and wouldn’t want to unbalance it with, say, a war with the Hutts that doesn’t give result in any profit.
“In Episode I, the Senators are more interested in themselves than they are in helping each other. They have fallen out of the symbiotic circle. They couldn’t agree on anything because their interests became so divergent, so they couldn’t get anything done as a Republic, and the Chancellor uses this division, which he helped create, to become Emperor.” - The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005, 
2020
So if the Senate doesn’t sanction a mission to free the slaves? Guess what? It ain’t happening. Not legally, at least.
Now some might say: “but the Jedi should’ve just said ‘fuck the Senate’ and helped the slaves in the Outer Rim, regardless of whethere it’s out of their jurisdiction or illegal”.
Okay. Let’s look at the numbers:
There’s 3.2 billion inhabitable planets in the Galaxy Far Far Away. The Outer Rim, where slavery is still a thing, is known to be the “largest region of the known galaxy”. Let’s be generous and assume there’s, what, 100,000 planets with slavery on them?
There’s only 10,000 Jedi.
Suppose that all of the Jedi decided “we don’t care if it’s illegal, we’re gonna free the slaves ANYWAY”, then got on a ship and attacked Outer Rim planets to end slavery… they’d all die trying.
Dave Filoni talks about this:
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“Dooku gets captured by a bunch of pirates... Yes. Now that I think is very hard to believe, except that there are 30 pirates around him. Now I agree wholeheartedly that Dooku is incredibly powerful. But the fact remains that if he gets into a fight with 30 pirates, yes he might kill 15 of them, but he will get shot and he will go down. All you gotta to do is watch Attack of the Clones. How does Count Dooku thwart those Jedi? Sheer numbers. Sheer numbers will defeat the Jedi.” - Filoni, The Clone Wars: “Dooku Captured” Featurette, 2009
George Lucas has also been very clear: the Jedi aren’t superheroes.
“I wanted to convey the idea that Jedi are all very powerful, but they’re also vulnerable — which is why I wanted to kill Qui-Gon. That is to say, “Hey, these guys aren’t Superman.” These guys are people who are vulnerable, just like every other person.” - The Phantom Menace, Director’s Commentary, 1999
“They aren’t policemen, they aren’t soldiers […] A lot of people say, “What good is a lightsaber against a tank?” The Jedi weren’t meant to fight wars. That’s the big issue in the prequels. They got drafted into service, which is exactly what Palpatine wanted.” - An Oral History of Star Wars: Episode I, 2019
“The Jedi are good, but they are not fantastic. They were never designed to be a superhero or anything like that. They were designed to be a Buddhist monk, who happened to be a very good warrior. [...] The Jedi are not superheroes. They’re regular people like the rest of us. We all have midi-chlorians. We all have the Force within us. We can all do what the Jedi can do, but we’re not trained. And the secret is training.” - The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005, 
2020
If the Jedi tried to tackle the problem that was slavery in the Outer Rim without backing from the Senate, they’d fail and die.
Then who’d defend the Republic & keep the peace? Like, before the Clone War, the Jedi are the Republic’s only protectors.
They just don’t have the manpower or the resources to do their job and free the slaves at the same time. Not by themselves.
And in Dooku: Jedi Lost, Dooku tried to fix this particular problem, by going to the Senate and attempting to have a ‘Republic Guard’ instated, arguing that Jedi can’t be everywhere at once, and the Republic worlds further from Coruscant benefited from less protection, but that conversation with the Senate pretty much went down like this:
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But hey, Quinlan Vos was undercover on Tatooine to destabilize the Hutt’s power. My guess would be that the Jedi were trying to do something on this subject under the table, and never got far enough because the Clone War erupted.
Point is, I wouldn’t blame the Jedi of “being okay with slavery”. It’s not their job. That said, they cracked down on slavery once, they’ll gladly do it again... all they need is the permission, backing and resources of the Senate. So I’d blame the Senate, who won’t give that to the Jedi for selfish reasons, who refuses to make freeing slaves the Jedi’s job.
If a kid refuses to clean his room and plays video-games instead, it’s not the broom’s fault the room is dirty. 
It’s the kid’s.
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laserbrains · 2 months ago
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sometimes i wonder about force-sensitive children who have ADHD or autism or any other sort of neurodivergent or even physical predisposition. do they have a different relationship with the force? can they use it as a sort of therapy for coping with things? or is it harder for certain people? how would the jedi handle them? do they have a specialized jedi pediatrician whose like “yeah they’re showing signs of XYZ” and gives them therapy/meds/etc?
lol idk if it’s ever been mentioned before but i just think it’s an interesting topic and i think about it a lot. how do they tell kids with ADHD to just sit down and meditate? lmao or do they just not even take children who show signs of disorders and whatnot? that would seem shitty. and what about ones that don’t show signs until they get older or something?
many thoughts
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communistkenobi · 9 months ago
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I keep seeing people say that Din broke his Creed in Chapter 15 but I think that is a misread of the scene and the show overall. I think what happened was that Din re-ordered the collection of tenets his follows so that the child’s safety supersedes all else.
The two most important parts of the Creed (as represented in the show) are wearing armour and protecting foundlings. In Chapter 3, Din is faced with a moral problem - does he protect this foundling or reclaim his peoples’ armour? His chooses the latter, and then goes back on that decision to rescue the child. That episode is titled The Sin for this exact reason - he made the incorrect moral decision, but he was no less of a Mandalorian for it.
In Chapter 15, he is then presented with the exact same problem, but this time he chooses the child over the armour. This is why that episode is titled The Believer - Din is in the process of reorganising his religious priorities, not abandoning them. Just as he was a Mandalorian when he decided to forsake the child, so too does he remain a Mandalorian when protecting him.
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padawanlost · a month ago
So, Anakin killed children in the camp of the Tusken Raiders. He said so himself that he thought of them as children - not ‘offspring’, not ‘whelps’, not animals, for another word. In his mind they were children, sapient beings who were innocent of their parents’ crime of killing his mother. And we’re supposed to be sorry for him in this scene because he cries?
We were never meant to feel sorry for Anakin for slaughtering the tuskens raiders. The whole scene, as George himself describes, was meant to show the audience Anakin’s first step in the wrong direction. It was supposed to help us understand that Anakin has no problem resorting to extreme violence when pushed to the edge.
Also, there’s a big distinction between understanding Anakin’s actions and approving them. We should feel for Shmi and sympathize with Anakin’s pain over the loss of his family but that’s not the same thing as feeling sorry for Anakin and his cruel, unnecessary reaction.
Anakin’s tears weren’t there to make see his actions as righteous. His outburst in front of Padmé was supposed to show us his emotional instability, his pain and, more importantly, his anger. It was George planting a seed for what would later watch in Revenge of the Sith.
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gizkalord · 9 months ago
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me trying to connect:
bendu telling ahsoka she would “die” upon confronting vader in that one deleted but canon snippet
gandalf the grey having to die before he could return as a wiser and more powerful person as gandalf the white
ahsoka wearing grey in rebels but pure white with a big wizard staff in the epilogue
dave filoni saying her epilogue appearance was very significant for her character
dave filoni’s obsession with LOTR parallels
ahsoka wearing grey in mando and looking very Grey Pilgrim-esque
those topps card illustrations from 2016 that filoni said showed a metaphorical journey through the underworld for ahsoka following her duel with vader
ahsoka still being sad abt anakin and the potential for a total crisis over accepting that he became vader
the possibility of something important happening when ahsoka went back into the malachor temple and how much time she spent there
potentially way more of a timeskip between the end of rotj and the search for ezra than i expected
my own selfish need for ahsoka to meet anakin’s force ghost
something something figurative death allows for transformative rebirth, but of what nature??????
also the fact that ahsoka has already “died” once already in tcw
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revenge-of-the-shit · a year ago
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Hot take: why the Jedi seem so  unnatural
There’s something about their movements; it’s too smooth, too sure. They never trip on their feet, never run into anything, and their bodies navigate crowds too easily. 
There’s something about their eyes, too, how they seem to bore straight through the soul of whoever they speak to. They sometimes seem to begin to answer a question before it’s even asked, and they always know what words to say to placate the emotions in the room.
There are rumors that the Negotiator and the Hero With No Fear do not need words to communicate, that they can speak without a comm while they are miles away from each other. 
The rumors say the Negotiator has a true silver tongue, that the reason he is so successful is not because he is a skilled diplomat but because there’s something else to his voice and words that makes him so convincing. 
The rumors say the apprentice of the Hero With No Fear is like a bird in flight when she moves, too graceful to be fully Togruta, her leaps so high it is as if she has the wings of a convor. 
(The Tuskens believe that Death walks on two legs and brings with him a blade forged from the flames of the sun. They believe they displeased him for they were not strong enough, and they have never taken a prisoner since that day. Their victims are always killed and offered in sacrifice to Death.)
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cacodaemonia · 6 months ago
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I'm really sleepy right now, so this might be completely ridiculous. But.
The Children of the Watch in The Mandalorian don't remove their helmets in the presence of others (fanon seems to agree that family is the exception), and we all go, hmmmmm, but why??
Before the events of The Mandalorian, there was a group of people who had at least some exposure to Mandalorian culture {depending on canon/legends), and would have had to strictly conceal their identities if they didn't want to be hunted down by just about every sentient in the Galaxy: clones whose chips never worked, or who had them removed.
Of course, Rebels shows that it was at least possible for a few de-chipped clones to survive without wearing helmets 24/7, but they also lived in the middle of a deserted wasteland.
But imagine if some clones escaped Order 66, stayed hidden for a while, ran into a few others like them, and eventually scrounged up bits and pieces of Mando armor. It makes sense that keeping one's face hidden would be one of the most important aspects of whatever society they managed to construct.
Any spouses or foundlings who joined them would, of course, not have to fear showing their faces, but it would have seemed suspicious if only some members of their groups/families/tribes kept their helmets on at all times, so it became a Rule.
So yeah, what if the Children of the Watch are the descendents of clones?
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softieskywalker · 8 months ago
sry if you've explained this already but how did you feel about luke's character arc in the last jedi?
i hate it. i have two big problems with it:
1) it's fundamentally out of character. when constructing a character you have to define some things that can't change because they constitute their identity. contrary to what tumblr lit analysis says, characters are not people. they'll never be as complex as real people. to make good characters you have to select some traits as fundamental, some things that no matter what happens won't ever change or else the characters loses their identity and become unrecognizable. that happened with luke. luke fundamentally would never willing isolate himself while there's new nazis running wild in the galaxy, not when his sister is leading the fight against them, not when his goddamn nephew is leading the nazis. luke fundamentally wouldn't give up on his own family. dude was willing to die for vader who had done absolutely nothing to show he was worth of redemption. you can change many things about luke, but if you make him lose his compassion and give up on family, he's no longer luke skywalker.
2) virtually, almost any of those character changes could work if they're well justified and worked into the narrative. luke's "arc" wasn't. we never really got a reason why he went completely off the rails. and it's not even a cool concept where i can say alright I'll give the author some slack because this concept is cool. taking a heroic and iconic character and making him into a resented hermit is not something I'm willing to buy. so you have to sell it to me. and they didn't.
it was never going to work because such a gigantic change in a character needs a lot more time to work. and luke was not going to be the protagonist of this story. it's honestly, a really stupid idea and idk how everyone enabled rian johnson and lied to him multiple times making him think he could pull it off.
damn, if mark hamill is telling you this is not luke, maybe you should listen.
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