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mariaantonnietta · 3 years

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Okay, the promised is debt.let"s talk about Gintaka moments!!!

I said a long time ago I was gonna do a compilation of Gintaka/Takagin moments. And I will deliver right now! (op skimmed the jp twitter and is excited/can’t wait to see the movie )

Ok, no, this will be mostly my disorganized headcanons, moments where I can see the ship with my shipper googles on, some paralels? Haha, honestly just to show the ship some love!!!

It’s also my perspective on why I love this ship!!

Of course, I'm going to talk about all the series and go back and fort, so there’s going to be spoilers all around, so if you have not seen the manga end, best skip it.

The rest is under the cut, let’s go!!!!!

So, I started shipping Gintaka/Takagin after the Shougun Assasination arc, best strangled friends story I have ever seen. I like a lot of Gintoki ships, but it became my favourite really fast. Then, looking back, I noticed these haha:

the first meeting in the show (ep 17). I know it was threatening, but watching it again the fireworks exploded over their heads as they met.Isn’t that a romantic troupe? (and also in this scene makes Takasugi face scarier, haha). And also how Gintoki stopped Takasugi blade, so obvious for point one that they knew each other.(the interactions here are so painful in retrospective 'When his father saw his son's head, imagine the rage he felt?😭')

(and then there’s also , in the extra episode where the yoroyuza go to China, they help a poor dude with his first date with a girl, and Gintoki comments how the first date should have fireworks, haha, at the time there were some images on pixiv of child Gintoki and child Takasugi seeing the fireworks together, it was so lovely, good headcanon!)

There's the Senbonsakura arc, and Takasugi appearing at the reunion scene looking at the moon, woah (there's also them crossing paths, but that's more dramatic of the ideologies maybe, still this a shipping post so ' them crossing paths there, the athmosphere of fated (rivals) people!!!')

( ‘They both had sad eyes’)

I like how even as they are different their core is the same, even if not these character are so raw together in their feelings

Let's talk about the movies for a moment: in the movie version of the Benizakura arc, Gintoki dreams with Takasugi, and IDK, but for how haunting it is, it also feels intimate, and that makes it hurt most.

About the second movie when we saw it we didn't know what the hell happened to Takasugi, but looking back he's dead by that time....maybe. (why didn't you give us a clear answer at the end sorachi).Okay but for practical purposes of what the cast knows he's dead (maybe...ahhh let's says it's like that) and well, haha, gintoki of the future dying looking at the sunset haha don't think of him daydreaming things.(When I saw the movie I had the impression that takasugi was dead, for both katsura clothes that are not called as a joke, and future gintoki 'the only one that can kill me is me', if takasugi was alive, he wouldn't let gintoki claim that so hypotrically, that's what I believed.)

There's the mini arc of the underseas dragon palace, (I remembered this one because of takasugi 'monster' form) I'm just gonna said that even if I read too much into ot there are some interesting paralels maaaaaybe, this one is a strech.

Talking about far fetched things, you people remember the Love Chorris arc? The one with the virtual girlfriends game? I think I am not the first person to point this out, but if you analyze Gintoki girl:

Gintoki selects her and (accidentally)kills her son.After that, she is bend of killing him in return in revenge. With his son corpse at her back to haunt him too.

She later confesses to him that she knew he wasn't at fault for her sons death, and that she focused on blaming him to be able to handle the pain, that she's grateful of Gintoki for understanding this.

The spirit of her son aproves their relashionship.

Now tell me this doesn't remain you of someone in particular and his relashionship with gintoki. And this is gintoki mind perspective and hopes, and fears.

(Well it probably isn't that deep, its the chorris arc, but still)

The way you can see Sakamoto’ jokes as a friend teasing because he knows they like each other. The fight when they to a red district gaining another lining.

The rajuko arc, when they exchanged blades to save the other newfound friends/family. The fucking red string of blood that they form together.

In the manga there was the famous saying attributted to takasugi historical counterpart :

'I want to kill all crows in the three thousand world, and sleep in with my heart's master'

This if I remember correctly because crows caw mark the morning, and in a brothel you have to leave.

So the meaning is ' I want to kill all crows in three thousand worlds(so that morning never comes) and sleep/stay in (forever) with my heart' master'

(Of course this could refer to shouyo, but it could be about gintoki, they go directly to meet the other)

It's a famous saying used in songs, I believe.

The part when he doesn’t want to see more rain, its of course because seeing gintoki's crying was imprinted in his mind for so long and influenced how he thinks. He is so important to him!!

And of course the final arc, where they are more open to each other,(the strangled friends are so happy to be together again) both Takasugi who finally let go of that 'burn the world down' and of Gintoki that walks besides him. The way Gintoki looks at Takasugi with a soft expression on his eyes. Matako ' I have never seen before Shinsuke sama with those eyes, I couldn't stop them'

The Glorious Days ending, that's when one (me) realises, 'oh ... this two care about each other and want to save the other' and while it isnt surprising for Gin, it was for Takasugi at the time.Rewatch the openings and endings in general, and see Takasugi place in them. IDK, he is usually the last alone waiting under the moon. And it gets me...cant really explain that.

The radio call, how we couldn’t see gintoki's initial reaction as Takasugi talked to him, gintoki even pretending not knowing (painfully bad) he didn’t know the other voice.

And of course the myriad moments in the final arc, Gintoki promply saying he is the one he wants to protect, the death sequence 'maybe we were just born under that kind of (tragic) star'

Gintoki teading takasugi that his parents would cry if they see the delincuent he is bringing home 🤣🤣.

Fuck, in the spin off Takasugi as a student novel, when he and Gintoki meet they can't keep the skit up, they talk directly to each other.

Also about the special episode, there's another...uh this is more of a paralel, and purely a headcanon, but here it goes: the yorozuya meet with kamui while trying to help a woman about her mother setting her up in blind dates, and in one moment she starts mothering both kamui and kagura and they get, well their eyes are animated different in that moment, and then they start listening to her. They were probably remainded of their own mother. And then I realised that I have seen Kamui make those eyes before (I will look for a pic, it's a very distintive shift), when talking to Takasugi. Is in one op too.

Of course the childhood friends dynamic. Regardless of nature, nobdy can deny the deep connection these two have.

(Here's the image from the op, is less obvios in the ep I think...or I'm overthinking, that's more possible)

Here’s Kamui and Kagura’s eyes when tehy get scold by the mother:

(I’m not crazy, they are similar XD Maybe XD)

I remember thinking to myself at the time 'woah, Kamui shows a admiring expression with takasugi somentimes' and now I fully believe is a childlike more like expression because takasugi reminds him of his mother(subconsiously). I can see the resemblance, especially towards the end of the series. As Gintoki and Umibozuo paralel too(both of them act like Kagura's dads) I just....haha parallel things.

There's a hundred things more, I'm sure I'm forgetting some (may add in a reblog after). All their fucking dialogue with each other is so intense. I I just love this ship sooo much

Totally up to talk about this ship if someone wants to!!

#gintama #gintaka #takagin #gintama spoilers #the movie is close so just to be sure anime watchers arent spoiled #gintoki sakata #takasugi shinsuke #somentines I play a little game called 'which gintama end lyrics fit takagin better XD'#grammar mistakes probably #will edit later...probably #add more pictures since it's difficult on phone #also this post is really a continent away fron serious analysis XD #tumblr stop fucking with my paragraphs order challenge #Edit: there were some sentences out of order still #I added one or two more pictures #thanks for liking my rambles

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sparda3g · 5 years

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Gintama Chapter 703 Review

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This chapter is amazing. I don’t need to review it; just leave it like that and you already know why. Joking aside (not really), what is there to say about it? It’s not the chapter I thought I wanted, but it’s the chapter I didn’t think I needed. It’s Gintama at its finest in its serious tone. It’s the finale that surpassed the last Utsuro battle. It’s the finale that surpassed my expectation, and trust me, it was pretty high. It’s the finale that the fans will forever remember.

Right from the beginning, it’s a knee-jerking experience with a sheer amount of intensity in the air. Gintoki and Utsuro are not even fighting, yet I got goosebumps just reading their dialogues. Speaking of which, Utsuro continue to be the most sinister villain in a long time for Shounen Jump. I know it’s technically not part of it anymore, but it did spawn from it. The point is, Utsuro is intimidating as always, drawing the aura of sinister that have outsmarted everyone.

He retells the whole story on why and how all the events led to this moment, in case if you are confused. Above all, it does add the shivering feeling because of how right he was about everything. The line about the path makes a callback, which makes me happy, because I reflect this many times before on how important his words were. That means I didn’t overthink it; Sorachi acknowledged it. Also, it adds more to the theme of Silver Soul; a necessary conflict to challenge. Lastly and more importantly, it adds more to Gintoki’s character; a man who can’t escape the tragic path that happened to repeat itself. It’s a mad world.

The showdown between the two have been on-point and stellar, and they haven’t yet to attack to make it so. Even Gintoki grasping his sword got me chills; that’s how unnerving it is. He may have gone through hell, but he will forever keep his words with his friends. No matter what happens, they will find their way to regroup. The conversation is so compelling. It doesn’t resort to power of friendship in blatant terms. All of their words felt meaningful because it relates perfectly to their characters. Those words about Takasugi made me feel so good, but it ultimately segue to a twist to Utsuro’s own game.

The twist is great because it finally put Utsuro in his own mind game, and rightfully deserved. It turns out that he was the one lying down and Shouyo was never there. It was confusing, of course, but the explanation is pretty rewarding. We last saw him about to kill Shouyo, but it actually never went through. He was stopped by Oboro because his blood was also consumed. This makes sense, especially when we just learned about how everything works. Not only that, but it’s even better with him being the one to stop. How can Sorachi make a dead guy, who was once a villain, become so likable in after life? That’s amazing.

I got so gleeful when Gintoki takes the role of a tyrant, looking down on Utsuro. It’s like I have foodgasm without taking a bite. The mind game on Utsuro is awesome; that line delivery about what he sees is superb. Takasugi stabbed himself rather than on Shouyo; that commitment cannot be broken. Gintoki’s strike is so well earned, along with the parallel. To recap, Shouyo is saved (for now) and he’s going to be helped by Yorozuya. Those moments were stellar enough, the next scene is downright masterful, but it comes with a heavy price.

It’s really tough to choose the best scene of this chapter. It’s interchangeable to me. Regardless, the next scene is perhaps the moment I never expected. I was so hung on the idea that the final battle must be explosive, literally or not, tons of action, and a solid storytelling. Maybe because plenty of writers thought bigger means better. That is not the case, and that’s a great thing. What the fans get and thankfully understand the nature and premise, is a wonderful climatic end.

Just before the final exchange, there’s one more conversation; preparing you for the greatness. The bone-chilling feeling that I have comes from Gintoki posing like a true Samurai, ready to fight. That cold stare only increase the chill factor. Utsuro’s words are hurtful, especially when he more or less guilt tripping Gintoki. Words about losing a master and a friend; those are stabbing to the heart pain. The narrative is whether the end path for Gintoki will forever be an empty void. Shouyo is saved, but will Takasugi be saved as well? The answer is yes; just not what you’re hoping for.

It’s badass enough for Gintoki to pose as a Samurai; it’s even more so when he doesn’t move at all to all of Utsuro’s hit. None of them connects; he stands as he knows he will never be empty. The ones he wanted to protect are right there, in his soul. That panel with Takasugi preventing Utsuro’s attacks is pure awesome. That’s friendship at its best. The next scene…is mesmerizing. Everything is impactful for one main reason: the storytelling. If Utsuro was just himself, it would have been pretty cool, but that would be the end of it. It would have been a high-five victory only. However, this is Takasugi’s body, so the story has changed. It’s a heartbreaking story that will pain the fans. It’s a tragic story that must be done. And I love it.

I love every single panel. It’s all one-sided, but it’s incredible. Much like how One Punch Man is brilliant at one-hit gag, this is brilliant at finishing the fight in a one-sided beat down with a crushing soul. I love how every hit slowly eats Gintoki’s calmness, closing in to kill Utsuro, but above all, kill his best friend. The memories begin to surface, causing me to feel the agony. I can’t do it justice here, but it’s simply gorgeous. My favorite part is the sword reflection. No matter what happens, no matter if Takasugi has to die, the reflection shows true color: he is proud of Gintoki. This is unfair. I don’t want to cry.

The way how it was paneled is amazing. It is an emotional roller coaster and each passing panel draws closer to sad fate. It aches me when it zooms in Gintoki’s eyes; understanding the pain he has to go through, but it has to be done. That roar as he holds Takasugi’s sword is chilling. The sad part is, I wanted to cheer and celebrate, but instead, I found myself pleading to stop. The double page spread says it all; epic but heartbreaking. The deed is done. I love Utsuro’s end as he truly learned the lesson as he dies; the lesson of humanity staying strong in the soul. It speaks well to his character and it’s better than simply meet people with strong willpower. It’s a great moral that captured the theme. I honestly didn’t do justice on the scene, but it’s one I often go back dozens and dozens of time; no exaggeration.

The scene with Yorozuya and Shouyo is something I thought I would never see, but undoubtedly welcoming. It makes completely sense for them to interact; it’s simply the past meet the present. It also works out well to give Shouyo a better light that his action has its upbringing and that is giving Gintoki the life he has. The panels with Gintoki looking down at Takasugi with a line about saving or protecting is quite telling. It’s very fitting for Shinpachi to be the one to thank Shouyo for meeting Gintoki. Who knows what would have happened instead if they didn’t meet. It’s such a nice moment of two generations bonding. Now, here comes the hardest part.

I wasn’t so sure what to prepare for, but it’s not the writing fault. It’s me hoping for a quick asspull or something people despise in Shounen genre. The series may be at the end, but to see a very popular character to die is hard to accept. Rarely that happens. Maybe, Takasugi would receive the Sasuke treatment, even if it was bull crap. Sadly, Sorachi doesn’t play that way. In short, this is it; pay respect one last time.

It’s as everything you can expect; it’s downright sad. I find it morbid to think the wins and losses count was a huge indication for their end. It was designed for one to receive the win to decide it all, but at a price of a life. Not like this. Even so, it’s touching that Gintoki doesn’t want the victory, even if Takasugi finds it pity. I love their last share of conversation, talking about how they were bitter with each other since youth, but they could have been best of friends. Scratch that; they always have been. What hurts me the most is the fact Takasugi had lived in the past for so long and what could have been show plenty of possibilities; but his death means it wasn’t meant to be. If that’s not tragic, I don’t know what is.

When I read the chapter’s title, I was speculating that it could mean a good thing. Technically, I was right, but not like this. Sorachi truly knows how to make something simple, complex, small, or large absolute meaningful, and by God, this is no exception. Takasugi’s left eye’s final vision was the tear of his best friend. The right should see Gintoki as the man he knows very well; the man he can called an eternal rival. That’s his final wish, and Gintoki grants that with a smile. The eye slowly closes; God, it’s hard. He vowed to get his win one day in Hell, and Takasugi will be waiting.

He’s gone. Gintoki cries. Powerful. Simply powerful.

Everything from this scene, let alone the chapter, was masterful. I don’t know how my face looked like, but I know my eyes were watery. Let me tell you, listening to Unravel acoustic was a massive mistake. It had me pouring. You can complain all you want about not wanting to end, but if it result to this pure quality, why fight it? This is what the fans truly deserved. Not exactly killing a beloved character, but the top level of writing that one would say, “It’s been 84 years.” I know it’s a joke, but I have to lighten up after this. The next chapter will be the last. By all means, end it. We are satisfied enough.

This chapter will go down as the best of the series; most likely the best I have read this year. It will likely to have the best ending in a long time. I am seriously considering to buy all volumes in one sweep. There’s no need to repeat on why this chapter is the best. You read it and you’ll know it. If only this was posted in a magazine; I will buy it in a heartbeat. Here’s to the final chapter. Takasugi won’t be here next time, but the soul will go on forever.

Rest in Peace, Takasugi.

#gintama #chapter 703 #review #spoilers

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claymorecut · 5 years

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I've seen people writing long metas and appreciation posts about a lot of Gintama characters but there is one character, I still haven't read much metas about. Kondo Isao.

If we talk about the storyline, Kondo is as important as any other character in the Gintama storyline but it always appeared to me that he's very underrated among fans. Most of the time, Kondo's just a gag character, used for just dick jokes and is a stalker gorilla and is more of a comic relief. But talking about a comic relief, mostly every character in Gintama is a comic relief. But it's the character's depth and relevance in the story that makes them so much more appealing.

Kondo Isao being no different.

If we throw aside all Kondo's stalking jokes and nakedness, what do we get? A genuine, calm, pure-hearted, kind, lovable, firm and respected leader- the chief of Shinsengumi. Without him, there would be no Shinsengumi. And it's been shown over and over again how influential of a character he is, whether it's the very first time when Hijikata fought Gintoki for Kondo's sake or that one time where Kondo took a bullet for some toad bastard and later how Hijikata and Okita, together, were making a barbecue out of that amanto, just for Kondo's sake, saying something like it weren't for that man, they'd be nothing but just a bunch of thugs. Or the Shinsengumi Crisis arc when the whole Shinsengumi went bazooka when they found out that Itou was actually planning to kill Kondo (remember the train scene with Sougo, hell, he was pissed af!) or the Farewell Shinsengumi arc which just beautifully crushed everybody's heart .

Talking about his influence on the Shinsengumi, Kondo is not just shown as their leader but also as a father/brother figure to the whole Shinsengumi. He binds them all together; without him they're lost. Kondo knows the meaning of being a true leader, he knows about his responsibilities and that it's not just only about him, he carries all these men together. He's a calm and collected personality, whether it is during the time when the Shinsengumi was providing security to that disgraceful toad who was bad-mouthing him over and over again or the time during the Mitsuba arc when he punched Sougo, knocking senses into him even when he was so damn agitated or handing himself over quietly to the Mimawarigumi when the Shinsengumi was away for the Shogun's funeral. These moments prove that he's the wisest amongst all; rather than letting his anger take the best of him and being reckless, he thinks it all through, patiently while making his choices. And that's one of the most important characteristic to be a leader.

Kondo's kind and generous character is also not invisible. Time and time again it's been shown how pure-hearted man he is. Whether it's his comrades, enemies, the Yorozuya or Otae, it's been made clear how good of a man he is. His crying face during the Shinsengumi Crisis arc when he's crying out for all his men, yelling he isn't worth dying for when all his were risking their lives for his sake or his genuine love for Otae, eating her dark matter happily and accepting her for who she is without any hesitancy or him running for Hijikata and Okita's aid during the Mitsuba arc, the Baragaki arc and the Rokakku arc immediately or simply helping the Yorozuya out of prison during the Courtesan of a Nation arc and fighting alongside them against Sadasada or leaving the Shinsengumi behind just so they can live on during the FS arc while he gets executed or his forgiving nature towards Itou and Sasaki who actually tried to kill him, because they were envious of him, that they could never be the man Kondo Isao was.

Now looking back at Kondo's past, yeah, it isn't as painful as Gintoki and Hijikata but still, he was always trashed by others, was mocked over and over again and was called a thief. Think how hurtful it can be for a child who just keeps on hearing trash from people and is actually called a thief, when he's done nothing close to it (well, other than him ogling at radishes because of his weird radish-fetish....)? He wasn't some honorable child to begin with; he was brash, animalistic and often heard shit from his parents. And yet, he fought all of this. He met his master, improved himself and when he thought he was abandoned by the man who accepted and taught him everything, he didn't forego. Rather than giving up, he now was determined to become stronger, to make a name for himself. He fought himself, tried to become a better person, struggled and became more stronger, inherited his father's dojo, taught sword skills to others, brought all those country samurai to Edo, formed the Shinsengumi with them and brought the best out of not just his men, but himself as well.

If it weren't for Kondo, Hijikata would still be the same ol' thug, swinging his sword aimlessly at whoever he wanted, wherever he wanted. If it weren't for Kondo, Sougo would be the same loner kid. If it weren't for Kondo, Yamazaki would still be the same Mountain Zaki. If it weren't for Kondo, maybe all these Shinsengumi members would still be aimlessly wandering somewhere. If it weren't for Kondo, there would be no Shinsengumi. It all started with Kondo. He is the core, the root and without him, his men are lost. He is the heart and soul who binds them all together, he is the man who gave them a purpose. Those country samurais who had no name, no education but just their swords. It was because of him, they found an aim for themselves. They found a reason for themselves. They found a name "Shinsengumi", they found respect, they found morals, they found honour, all just because of that man. No matter how much shit Kondo gets, his men are deadly loyal to him. Just because for the man he is. They look up to him, care for him, and I think, love him the most in the whole world because he's the one who gave them all, not just name and fame, but a family as well. He's respected, not just by his comrades but his enemies as well. Itou wanted to be a part of his Shinsengumi, Katsura actually went to that prison just so he could get Kondo and Matsudaira out. Even Isaburo stated what kind of a man Kondo Isao is, "gentle yet firm, a deadly combination" and that he wanted to be a better person than him. Tae almost getting her neck slashed by Nobunobu while defending Kondo's honour spoke how much of a great person he was, that almost everybody was willing to risk their lives for his sake. Gintoki seeing Shoyou in Kondo was a huge parallel, depicting the fact that just like how he was lost without Shoyou, the Shinsengumi would be lost without Kondo. Gintoki telling Hijikata that they could still save what they loved the most and that it's still not too late for them like him was crushing. Seeing Kondo dead (I know he wasn't) while all the Shinsengumi members, especially Hijikata and Sougo, stared at his body, heartbroken (you know you cried there!!). One can easily say how important Kondo is to all of them, how they just fell on their knees, devastated, when they all saw him dead in front of their eyes.

All this is brilliantly done by Sorachi, he never disrespected any of his character and proved their significance in his story. Even though he used Kondo as a comic relief most of the time, just like Shigeshige, he made it pretty clear that these two have a great impact on the characters, on the storyline. Yes, Kondo doesn't have one of those glorious single fights like Hijikata and Okita have but at the same time, it doesn't look very necessary as well. He may not be the best swordsman but that doesn't mean he isn't strong enough to kick ass. Hell, he runs this freakin' huge ass police organisation, he ain't no dumb monkey. Him pinning two yatos singlehandedly with just his sword during the SA arc and fighting alongside Zura against those Narakus may looked brief but in both of them, Kondo was really badass. His idiotic personality speaks badass, his men aren't blind. They know what he is and there's no need for any conformation. Also how in the FS arc, Kondo not for once abandoned Katsura or his men. Rather leaving the Mimawarigumi members to die, he actually helped them on the battlefield; him paying respects to Isaburo at the end of the FS arc with all other Shinsengumi and Mimawarigumi members speaks his genuine leadership qualities. His impact on his men, the Shinsengumi, and other characters is enough to tell how great of a man Kondo really is. His kind personality, saying "a leader is nothing without his men" and that he just wants to see his men live while he becomes another stepping stone for them is remarkable. He's a genuine, down-to-earth person who never sees himself as a leader or a superior but as an equal to his men. He's a man who's idiotic but at the same time, wise and lovable. He's the kind of person everybody can easily rely onto, he's the kind of a man who'll definitely watch your back during hard times, he's the man on whom you'll always lean on to cry, he's the man who will love you wholeheartedly but at the same time can punch senses into you and he's the man you will follow anywhere.

He's the embodiment of leadership in this series, and really, he's a man worth dying for!

#kondo isao #gintama #i always wanted to write an appreciation post about kondo #hes such a beautiful character and i love him so much #hes the very first character i ever fell for in gintama #and my respect for him just kept growing over time #hes so precious and if i were in the shinsengumi #i would happily die for this man #love this gorilla!#this became way too long but i really needed to write this!#kondou isao #shinsengumi

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runawaykotaro · 5 years

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hi i have a weirdly specific question about the benizakura arc cause im rereading it. irt katsuras "death" do you think gintoki ever ended up, even for a small portion believing kataura did die, or did he always hold faith? its probably a silly question but i keep vacillating between gintoki having strong faith in his friends abilities vs being pragmatic after his fight w nizou that he himself only got out of because of shinpachi so i wanted to know your opinion cause your meta is fun to read

Thank you!! I’m glad that you enjoy reading my meta posts! I really enjoy writing them!

You’ve posed a really interesting question, and one that I’ve been vacillating on for a while. Unfortunately, I don’t really have a definite opinion. I’m inclined to believe, however, that Gintoki believed that Katsura was alive the whole time. My rationale gets kind of long though- so the rest of this post is going to be under a read more.

This comes first from taking Gintoki’s dialogue, parallels to later confrontations in the arc, and shonen genre conventions. First, you have his initial confrontation with Nizou where he tells Nizou “Zura would never be killed by a lame-ass murderer like you.” Then, after being shown Zura’s hair, “Don’t make me repeat myself. Zura would never be killed by a nobody like you.” (admittedly, this was before Gintoki almost died but,) In the manga at least, Gintoki never contradicts this or expresses any doubt about it past this. Second, the way that Zura going missing is mirrored (paralleled? I’m not quite sure what the correct literary term would be lol) later in the arc also suggests that Gintoki believed that Katsura lived. The first moment is when Katsura jumps out of and slashes takasugi- then immediately says ‘I could not rest knowing that I had been killed by a former comrade. Isn’t that true for you as well, Takasugi?’ The second moment is Katsura and Takasugi watching Gintoki battle Nizou on the roof, while Takasugi comments that fighting the benizakura is like fighting a battleship with your bare hands. Neither of those situations DIRECTLY match up with how Nizou claiming that he killed Katsura, but they all convey the Joui 3′s confidence in the others’ abilities to survive. Each of them believes that the others can’t die except in specific circumstances. Because Katsura and Takasugi believe that of Gintoki, and because of the way the narrative hints at their understanding of each other, it implies that Gintoki would hold the same faith in Katsura even faced with the heavy realities of his confrontation with Nizou. You can also say here that Gintoki is familiar with the fact that Zura is “Runaway Kotaro” too (I’m still so glad i got this url) and knows that Zura is the kind of combatant who would play dead or hide, and doesn’t feel the need to engage with an aggressor to the end of the confrontation. That leads into the shounen genre conventions- the protagonists Believes in their Companions, unless something Actually Happened to them, in which case the Protagonist is able to Instantly Distinguish that what the antagonist is saying is True. I’m not sure how to explain it better but basically, metatextually, as the protagonist, Gintoki gets to believe that Katsura is alive as long as Katsura is alive.

Of course, if that was all there was to consider, then it would be a pretty clear cut question to answer. There are significant conflicts with those arguments. For Gintoki’s thoughts, in the manga, he doesn’t comment on Zura’s life status after “Zura would never be killed by a nobody like you,” however, the movie has the conversation with Tetsuko: ‘I can’t help you. I got beaten up, and my friend was killed.’ With this line in mind, Gintoki does seem to think Zura is dead. However, his sincerity when delivering his line is called into question when it’s revealed that he was intending to help Tetsuko all along, he was just trying to shake off Tae. But why say that to her at all? Neither Tae nor Tetsuko know Zura at that point, and saying that to Tetsuko when she’s already torn up about what Benizakura is being used to do just seems pointlessly cruel. So if it wasn’t part of the deception, why say it at all if he didn’t believe it? (There’s just A LOT to discuss with this line, and I feel like its the line that called Gintoki’s belief in Zura’s survival into question the most.) Another piece that could easily be interpreted either way is the panels after Gintoki sees that Katsura is alive:

(First of all, don’t even get me started on that line but) He doesn’t look shocked, which would imply that he believed that Katsura was alive the whole time, however, Gintoki isn’t a very open person, and his expression could ALSO be interpreted as relief, implying that he was worried that Katsura was dead.

There’s also the element of rationality, like you said. Gintoki almost died fighting Nizou- would have died if Shinpachi and the police hadn’t intervened. Nizou also showed him Katsura’s cut off hair, which is solid evidence there was a confrontation that Zura didn’t escape from unscathed. The rationality argument conflicts with the shounen conventions, because the protag usually just Believes what is correct, without regards to pesky things like logic, reason, and the possibility of death in a combat situation. However, Gintama has violated shounen conventions plenty of times before- Gintoki just being who he is stomps all over the idea of what a shounen hero is supposed to be. However, it does tend to stay pretty close to the power of peoples’ bonds- which is why I believe that the protagonist power of Companion Well-being Radar is in play here.

So there are a lot of different factors at play, and while I do believe that Sorachi intended to convey that Gintoki kept faith in Katsura the whole time, there’s a solid argument that that’s not the case. Personally, I change my interpretation every other drabble I write about the benizakura arc, so…? I can’t really give you a definite answer. I think that Gintoki could have been in a possible middle ground. Maybe he believed that Katsura was alive but was worried that he wasn’t? Or he might have been too focused on Tetsuko, Shinpachi, and Kagura to focus on thinking about whether or not Katsura was alive? I don’t really know, but I feel like it’s more likely that Gintoki believed that Katsura was alive for the duration of the benizakura arc.

#Meta #New years cards #Sorry its so long. And late. And goes back and forth so much.#but this is actually a question that has been bugging me for a long time!!!#It was cool to dissect it!!!

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fizzingwizard · 5 years

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Another couple pics from the new Gintama chapter. Can’t believe there’ll only be two more chapters left?? Well I suppose that nothing’s ever 100% certain with this manga, but, as much as I don’t actually want it to end, the idea of having to wait and wait, get a few chapters, then wait and wait again does not appeal xD Maybe it’s time to end. But I don’t want it to!! This is the only manga I read hahaha. What will I have left, X-men?? Nooooo

So when I was reading the raws I was wondering if Katsura got Yamcha just because his hair was long, and maybe because I’m not into DBZ much, I missed this bit where he actually addresses it. HAHAHA. Whatever it’s perfect

Also missed the fine beauty that is Takasugi’s face in this panel on my first read BWAHAHAHAHHA

ok so now I have a couple hopes/wishes/worries about what comes next:

obviously there’s gotta be some great dramatic reunion between gintoki & kagura/shinpachi, and now the circumstances of it have me really on edge. because takasugi basically just tried to give gintoki an out to go to them, and gintoki doesn’t because he’s doing the same thing he did when they went to war in the first place - trying to hold on to what he’s already got. I have no doubt that he wants to be with Shinpachi/Kagura, but for some reason he’s thrown in his lot with Takasugi/Katsura and decided that’s where he needs to be. But Takasugi just got stabbed, and Zura fell from quite a height with bad wounds. Now, while a normal human would die, this is shonen manga, SOOOO jury’s totally out on whether they’ll be dead next issue. But if they are. And that’s a big IF. But if they are - I suppose that’d be impetus for a Yorozuya reunion. Because the things Gintoki needs to hold on to will still exist, just somewhere else.

When Zura fell, Utsuro’s heart also fell out of Gintoki’s sleeve. Zura didn’t manage to catch it, but they did fall together. So, I’m wondering if that’s going to lead to something, or if it’s purely for the effect of putting Zura and the heart out of commission so (assuming Takasugi’s out too) Gintoki will be alone when he sees Utsuro and the new heart growing inside him. My hope is that the old heart still matters and Zura still matters, but anything’s possible at this point. It does sort of look like Sorachi built up the sweetness of the three disciples’ bond so that the tragedy would be all the more effective when he eliminated them. And it makes a parallel too - Gintoki once killed his teacher to protect his friends, and this time, to save his teacher, his friends have to die. But at the same time, I kind of can’t believe Sorachi would be that Grecian about it. It’s too fucking poetic for Takasugi to die right now. At least we have the assurance that fatal wounds are often conveniently non-fatal in shonen manga.

What I really like is that I have no idea, and haven’t for a long time, of how this story is going to end. A lot of times in manga/movies/stories in general, it’s not hard to make at least a general prediction about the ending and be right about it. But I’m not convinced of anything beyond that Kagura and Shinpachi will live and continue the Yorozuya in their own way. I think Gintoki will live too because it seriously would be too Grecian to kill him. And I can’t see the Shinsengumi dying at this point. But Takasugi and Katsura, yeah, they might. And they might not. And I don’t know what the heart means, or the new heart, or what possible final outcome there can be for Utsuro/Shoyo that will truly be satisfying. And I don’t know how Gintoki figures into all that because in the end, he’s got to do something that shocks everyone and really encapsulates who he is - that’s what I think anyway, but I have no guesses what it’s gonna be. The two year time jump already threw me for such a loop. I don’t know what’s up or down anymore. But I’m super excited and impatient to see what happens. Gorilla!! You won’t do to use what Kubo did with Bleach!! I believe in you!!

#gintama #gintama spoilers

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mariaantonnietta · 3 years

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Let’s talk about the Gintama 2 Movie!! (Be Forever Yorozuya)

AI wanna talk timelines, timelines!!, I saw the movie again and with the manga finished I want to discuss theories about it!!

Hello! Is me again, I want to talk about the second movie, because after seeing it I always want to try to desipher what happened in the timelines we didn’t see play out! Of coure these will be at best theories that are we can’t probe, but I still want to try to guess! And now with the manga finished, I think is time to revisit it with all the date we have!

I will talk about the second movie, the manga end, and everything, so stay with me having that in mind!

Firstly, this movie deals with time travel (fairly well I might add, I realycould follow all the time twists and make sense of them), and I believed it wise to add a timeline so everyone follows along. Behold my horrible graphic!

Haha, there are some things to say about the drawing. From left to right, The first line is to separate the time-points nothing else, (the movie was released at june 2013, the manga volume for the shinigami arc was december 2013, so I don’t know if I am being a bit generous there, but in timeline I think it only matters is before Shogun assasination (after which it get serious until the end), and that it is before that point)

The other are the first (and first’s branch), second and thrid timeline, I didn’t count Tama going to the past to bring past Gintoki as a separate timeline and more like a little branch of the first because when Gintoki is sent forwards they converge (you can also see it as the rest of that branch dissappearing). All of them are in a sense a branch from the first timeline, but this one converges so.

(ask if something else isn’t clear, I tried T-T)

Well now unre the cut the rest of my silly ideas and theories!

A comment, but the only thing that is a bit out of place is Tama surviving in the second timelime?, like shouldn’t her be erased like GIntoki?, I think is either that she would otherwise cause a bigger loop (she doesn’t exist as time machine there->Gintoki cant kill his past self->Genma makes her a time machine->Gintoki kills his past self-> she doesn’t exist as a time machine->...infiinitum) She is the one that allows the timeline to exist. The other is that she is in a Schrödinger' situation that as long as the possibility that she will exist in the future exist she will (gintoki dissappeared because his posibility of future was erased as he killled his past self). Or time machine power makes her inmune to paradoxes, who knows...

Also, we don’t talk enough of Gintoki dying in this movie. Both Enmi Gintoki of the first timeline, the past Gintoki of the second, and the protagonist Gintoki we follow in the movie (first timeline branch) are erased, and from now on we are following the Gintoki who’s the future of the Shiroyasha of the third timeline. (the one who helped us fight the Enmi, from now on he’s the protagonist)

The same about the kabukichou people, I mean, nothing changes practically, except maybe the Joui members having seen something strange that day.

1) Now, something I wondering was if the events of the first timeline ocurred in the same way that in the third one. Was there a Shogun Asasination arc?, A silver soul arc?

Well, no. I think that there events unfloded differently...because GIntoki dissapeared for five years, and he did it before the shogun assasination arc (this not only for the date release, but also the jovial athmosphere at the start at the cinema)

But did the events of the story play on in another manner without Gintoki regardless?, Why, I sure they did.

Okay, follow me on this. I do not know if the shogun assasination arc happened or not (even tough a parallel can be made of Katsura and Shinsengumi alliance in both places), but I think that even if it did, it didn’t happen at all as planned.

I think everything went into disarray with the virus (don’t we know about that), any plan was left into the air, and Nobunobu or Shigeshige are in charge depending on their luck.

I also want to know what happened with Utsuro and the Tendoshou in this timelime.(Because cm’on, don’t tell me I am the only one who believed Enmi GIntoki looked a lot like a crow ) I want to know if Takasugi is dead or not, and how he died/where he is. (I asumme Sakamoto is fine, maybe helping people, is Zura with those clothes and Gintoki words, Gintoki going to the terminal that make me worry)

So, I started gathering those points and I believe I reached a theory about this.

Okay, so follow me. These are the things we know about the first timeline.

Gintok soon after watching the movie discovered he was infected with the virus. He suspected it was the Enmi, went to talk of the past with Zura to clear his mind, talked wiith Gengai about making a time machine if he didn’t came back.

Left the Yorozuya to investigate if there was a solution, tries to kil himself when he doesn’l find one. He fails. He has not other choice but to wander as he sees the world be destroyed by his own hands.

I posted this photo because of the ships that surround the tower and attack it. It doesn’t say when this attack took place after he left, we could only see that he wasn’t there. But this image looks fairly similar to the one when the Altana liberation force attacks.

The tower also looks very similar 5 years later as after attacked by the altana liberation army. (I checked also with how it was when the Tegenism ship fell, it looks more like the after the attack)

(After Initial liberation army attack. Third Timeline)

(Five years later. First timeline) Probably they didn’t have resources to rebuild with everything falling down with teh virus. Why would some army attack, I think that maybe the earthlings that escape, some had the virus, that probably expanded it onto another planets, that now made the problem worse in the universe and some people really mad at the planet from where the infection came from. Or, it could be rebels, like the Kihetai, that are taking advantage of the political turmoil to attack their actual objective (the terminal, with the minawabanwu maybe too ) Or both.

(Two years later third timeline) I added this to show how it doesn’t look like the terminal we discuss, so I think if something happened, it happened earlier more than later. (Or later, but it was only one incident and not 2)

Another thing we know is that the Enmi look a lot like the Tendoushu. I compared staffs and things. Wondered if there were related to Tengenism (the weir religion that launches the last arc)

Well, It’s not basic staff like tendoushou, but the decoration is different tha the tengeism. The clothes are also similar but not the same (I know the these arcs came later, but sorachi could have used different designs and not similar ones, you know, also, it’s just throwing ideas)

(Enmi at the start, checked, Enmi Gintoki uses the same one (and same clothes))

Oboro staff is different. Tengenism have the same type. Tengenism symbol are wings (phoenix), not Enmi. But the similarities are there too.

So, we all know the Enmi are nanomachines that are used to destroy worlds right?. I wondered if Utsuro could survive that. The answer I reached was that it depended. If the Enmi virus only worked on humans, it would probably not kill it. ut if after killing humans it affected animals, then plants, then destryed the planet vitality, well, that would do it. It would depend of how lethat it actually was. (in the last case, he would be the last to die, and Gintoki would be the only one who survives as the new vessel...moving onto the next world until he dies naturally or some poor bastard kills him)

Well, I’m gonna asumme that the Enmi would destroy the world to that point, because they were described as ‘beings that caused damage enough to leave a planet uninhabitable’ and the other ‘uninhabitable’ planet we see is Kouka’s, that is dying and its Altana was almost nothing when she left. Zura said they were forbidden or being restricted because of this.

So we know the Enmi were beings that could destroy worlds,(probably up to their lifeforce), that were contained by something, that someone attacked the terminal tower looking a lot like a pseude liberation army, and that Enmi’s dress is eerie similar (but not the same) to the Tendoushu.

I believe they were also a ting the Tendoushu kept to themselves, a fraction that can destroy a planet to the point of leaving without life (Altana) sounds like something they would regulate. Maybe mercenaries was a cover up, or maybe it was both.

Was the first timeline all Utsuro plan? Well, too many jumps there. I believe thst he vouldn’t do that trapped with Shoyou, I think that in the first timeline he did as in the last arc, he saw that mortals used that virus to harm the others, and decided to make use of that. He of course was the cause that they attacked the Terminal and is probably happy that all the universe may perish of disease.

Maybe.

Or maybe that was the plan, and Takasugi stopped him. (There are too many factors to see how things developed. But either kihetai + harusame maybe + minawabanshu and some others killed utsuro, or they died either fighting him or from disease)

The way GIn is dtanding aside as the ships atack the terminal (he can’t join) makes me think some kind of final battle took place.

(Gorilla might not know how Gintama was fgonna end, but he did have some ideas, and final fight at the Terminal tower was one that stuck all the series)

Does Gintoki know of Utsuro?, Who knows? If you want my take, I think Takasugi and Utsuro both died figthing each other. As the terminal exploded.

I think he eventually at least, found out. Because he decided to go die there.

(also because you know, final fight at the terminal.)

2) In the second timeline everything is much more clear. Young GIntoki dies. I see 3 options unfolding

a) the one I call the normal one. GIntoki dies, people mourn him (because Gintoki just erased his future, not his past, young Gintoki body should remain), either Zura or Takasugi kills Shouyou (probably Takasugi, I’m thinkin so because Oboro mostly, he would pick if not shiroyasha, the other more known at the frontlines one, but could be either way), and is a bit diffrent but in practical mostly the same.(maybe some things are held back and the shogun asssination hasn’t happened yet, or maybe it did, who knows) We can’t tell more than thi.

b) Probably not route. shouyou discovers that Gintoki’s died and it gives him strenght to make keep Utsuru more in check, he uh...destroys things, there’s no need to kill him for now.things advance more or less like in canon, with a lot of things we don’t see

c) I cry route. Shouyou discovers what happened, and it kills off his personality (sends him to sleep at least). There’s no need for either Zura or Takasugi to kill him. They never find his master at the war (maybe they are told he is dead, and don’t believe it). They didin’t kill his master, but los Gintoki to who knows who, and don¡’t know what happened to master, Thingd happen more or less like in canon.

3) Here someone (probabky kurokono!...ok no, leave me dream), wakes GIntoki from his drunk sleep and he and the joui 4 see a bizarre image of people from 15 years in the future attack the Enmi.(of course they don’t know this) They brieftly join them. They see from a distance how the future people dissapear. They continue with their life.

(That last one is canon, haha)

As you can see nothing has been cleared and these are mostly cool theories, a lot of other things are possible. But I don’t know, wanted to talk about it.

#gintama #gintama spoilers #gintama movie #be forever yorozuya #gintoki sakata #utsuro #enmi #takasugi #katsura #some things that ocurred to me #I will probably have to correct some grammar mistakes #maybe if something else of this theory-idea appears I would add it with an edit #what abouth Tama ?#I could mention some things about Shinpachi and Kagura not forgetting Gintoki until his past self is dead to lead the Shcrodinger legitimacy #but other people forgot gintoki soo who knows #these characters are somentimes self aware #makes it more difficult #maybe they didnt forget becasue apart for their feelings they saw him dissapear #(and Tama too)#so their brain knew? maybe #tama told everyone in the second timeline about the first so kabucichou people knowing is not surprising #of course words alone don't cause their feelings to burn their souls do #Ithis post is so long thank you som much for reading

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sparda3g · 6 years

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Gintama Chapter 660 Review

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I haven’t felt so damn terrified in a long time. I should bring up that I read this chapter during my trip to Anime NYC Convention. During that time, I was deeply absorbed into reading it and I gasped so noticeably. I can hide my reactions in public, but this is one of the rare times of actually being shocked. This chapter is downright bone-chilling. It’s downright thrilling. It’s freaking insane.

The last chapter was intense and bloody as hell. Sorachi thought he has a way to make it even more insane, so this chapter was born. I don’t know if he wants to end and top all the dark endings from every series he read/saw, but it is working. Coming back from the last chapter, all hopes seem to be lost, but that would only mean somebody will eventually show up and save the day. It has certainly presented it but the aftermath is not what I bargained for.

The extended ending of the last chapter is great. It does make the final battle all the more ironic and nearly impossible without the thought of ending the world. Utsuro seriously knows how to crawl under people’s skin with words, but in this case, he turns the pride of a Samurai into an ironic twist of protecting the one that they must destroy. The cruel reality check gives the feeling of impossible and pointless if he cannot die ever unless destroying the world. The stab to Gintoki’s forehead gives me chills every time I see that, though it will be topped by another scene.

The quick escape from Gintoki was awesome but it does appear that he may have a scar on his face. It definitely signifies the end is near. The shot to Utsuro’s other eye by the shard of the crystal sword was brutal but damn that was so badass. To make it epic, the allies are back to the scene; Umibozu, Kamui and Yato Clan, and lastly Shinsengumi. What a hell of a powerhouse team we got here.

I love how they are tired with Utsuro’s bullshit about immortality and trump card, because what they can do really is beat the hell out of him until he’s reduced to nothing. God, I’m going to miss these guys. The final battle has begun! The final mission: terminate Utsuro! It’s amazing because it’s been since Full Metal Alchemist that gave me the triumphant finale vibe and it has risen again here.

The intensity level went sky high with the final clash between Earth and Naraku as Utsuro can’t see anything. It should be easier for a strong group to take on him; it’s perfect enough to have the upmost advantage. The way how the chapter plays off like there’s a chance. Shinsengumi is close and I thought, “Utsuro would probably run or dodge or have his men to take all the slashes for him.” I was dead wrong in all accounts. What we got instead is the most bone-chilling display of despair that this arc or any final arc in Shounen hasn’t provided in a long time.

Utsuro presents the creepiest shot of the arc: a smiling man with no eyes with blood spills from the holes. It’s the perfect portrayal of his character: a monster that long forgotten to feel pain of neglect. The parallel shot of the past and present is strikingly frightening. He has done this in the past and the position is largely the same, only now he is free to kill. The fact he vision in his mind matches up all too well and because of it, he has no need for eyes to kill everyone in his way. That’s sickening.

I got scared as shit when he starts killing them one-by-one in different ways: slashing them, slicing their face, and decapitation. Quite honestly, I don’t think I have seen Shinsengumi getting killed until now. Hell, some feels like characters we know in the background, but now getting killed. Yamazaki is just paralyzed from the sight of slaughter. It’s mind numbing to even comprehend a monster with no eyes still killing them at the worst possible way.

It only adds more to the scene with Utsuro explaining his backstory of how much of misery he had when he was thrown to the cage. The thought of gouging his eyes endlessly is just sick, like what the hell. Those experiences practically gave him a much stronger sense, so he knows how it flows. It’s eerily said with his connection to fear from those who he sees. After living for so long, he has grown sick of fear and if anything, losing his eyes is the best favor they have done for him. I want my blanket…

The fiercest scene is with Yamazaki close to his death bed with Utsuro wielding his sword across his neck. I got incredibly tensed like I was about to lose my shit yet I should be thinking, “No, he will escape this.” The chapter was messing my mind when each panels keep leaving me hanging on his fate. Sougo and Hijakata coming to save him was a sign of rescue inbound, so like the previous moments, it should be ok.

Utsuro slits his neck. It’s too late.

Imagine the most shocked expression you have ever seen in your life. That was me at the convention; probably leaving some cosplayers confused and maybe scared. The visual of blank space with Yamazaki confused on what just happened just stunned me. Listen, if we have to asspull for him to survive or anything, do it. Just do it. If that piece of shit character from Boruto can survive a slit in the neck, let alone in the throat region, God knows why, then Yamazaki better survive this. The mocking from Utsuro about getting killed is just stabbing to the gut by this point.

The most badass scene is right at the end because when all fails, you can always count of Gorilla to take care the job. I seriously am going to miss these characters. After all of those causalities, no way in hell Kondo is going to let that slide or let fear gets any best of him. The man is downright pissed. Even so, his code of honor as Shinsengumi is forever carrying on. No talk, just aim to kill in one simple manner. Do I heavily fear for him? Hell yeah. I don’t know what to expect anymore.

As insane the chapter was, I loved it. It’s the vibe that I have been searching for when it comes to the finale. It’s dark, gritty, and painfully brutal to sit through because of beloved characters in a real struggle to win. The action is grim, the tension is strong, and some of panels leave a strong impression of fear and epic. It’s simply magnificent.

#gintama #chapter 660 #review

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