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ep.10 Polyamorous Parenting with Tikva Wolfe

polyAM Radio Episode Ten-Polyamorous Parenting with Tikva Wolf

[Begin Transcript]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody and welcome to polyam radio the best show on the internet about polyamory that weird relationship thing you do with lots of other people

["Crazy little thing called love" by Queen plays]

[Sophie]: hello everybody welcome to polyamradio my name is Sophie Last-Name-Redacted and I'm here with a very special guest this week why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself

[Tikva]: Hi I'm Tikva Wolf

[Sophie]: I use she her pronouns

[Tikva]: I use they them pronouns

[Sophie]: cool cool I gotta tell ya I am totally geeking out over here because uhh Tikva is one of my absolute all time favorite like polyamory heroes pretty much everything I know about polyamory that doesn't come from my own ya know personal foolish mistakes comes from Tikva's comic Kimchi Cuddles, I do wanna let listeners know that this is the second time that we've tried to record and just this morning my computer totally puked on me uhh so I am working with a spare that I rented from the library and uhh we're doing the best we can but all of my show notes all of my everything is gone so we're gonna make the best of a bad situation and kinda plow through this but that's what we've got going on over here so if it seems like maybe things are a little different this tim uhh that's whats up, so I'm guessing though that despite some potential sound quality problems that this is gonna be our best episode yet because we've got Tikva with us

[Tikva]: yay, yeah hopefully the technology will cooperate with us this time, if not we'll just have [uninteligable] conversation [laughs] [uninteligable] [laughs]

[Sophie]: yeah you caught me there's no podcast  this was a trojan horse I just wanna talk to you and be your friend

[Tikva]: aww [laughs] again, this happens to me all the time [laughs]

[Sophie]: ya know somehow I believe that so our topic this week is gonna be polyamourus parenting but before we get started, Tikva why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself because ya know not everyone has internet stalked you like I have so uhh ya know they may not know every little detail or certainly they may not know anything about you and that would be a real shame so uh why don't you give us a little exposition ya know

[Tikva]: well I write a webcomic about polyamory which I really is just about relationships and my relationships happen to be in a polyamourus container umm I so I write largely just about my own life experiences and umm uhh people seem to think that it's relateable uhh I think that uhh the the medium of uhh comics is a good umm way to convey ideas and experiences because they happen in such a small little uhh snippet so there really easy to digest and it's really easy to convey uhh uhh an experience or umm like a complex idea in a way that is umm yeah just easier to digest

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I think you're spot on ya know uhh I think comics are a really effective way of conveying a kind of slice of life ya know we always think about umm ya know maybe books and movies and other kinds of media but certainly even podcasts I mean it's hard to crank out good media on a reliable basis I mean I'm doing a podcast ya know one podcast for every ya know shove out an episode every other week I mean and you're cranking out what ya know two or three comics a week I mean that's

[Tikva]: well when I first started I umm I didn't think anybody would read it but I just started putting I always made comics about my relationships and I had a partner who uhh said you should write a you should write a webcomic about polyamory and I just started putting them online as a joke between us but umm and then all of the sudden all of these people were reading it but when I first started putting them up I had a bunch of them so I was just putting up like two of them a day so very quickly I had a lot of content in like the span of a couple weeks and then I calmed down and then I started making like I think for a while though I was making like one a day umm for quite some time and then uhh it went down to like umm like like two or three a week and recently I've been like writing a bunch of other things so it's been more like one a week umm yeah I've been working on a lot of articles and graphic novels recently umm so that's been taking up a large chunck of my time umm and it's it's amazing to me like remembering when I first started I was like I was a young mom [laughs] and, so I had a baby that I was watching all the time and I was also, ummm, I was also an art teacher at a camp so I was like doing that uhh part time but I so I was like writing these comics, like, at like two in the morning in the bathroom [laughs] it was just like a time that I had to do that umm which is why they look so shitty like go back and look at the original ones it's hilarious to me cause I'm like woah look at this but umm but yeah people like them [laughs] so I kept going, I'm still doing it

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely ya know  you really have your finger on the pulse of what it feels like to be ya know in a  polyamorous relationship and your comics uhh show showcase that very well ya know I remember a few weeks ago there was one that really spoke to me and it was uhh oh ya know my partner has this new partner I have a new metamour, I actually talked about this on the show, listeners might remember, but this new partner they're so or this new metamour they're so fancy and they're so put together ohh boy is that what they like is, oh man cause I'm just kind of a slob and ya know I'm ya know I'm pretty bad at putting myself together and getting all dolled up and everthing and uhh actually umm I'm going to try to do that later on today because today the day we're recording this listeners is actually my birthday so we're gonna try to go out later and ya know have a bit of a fancy nice evening

[Tikva]: it's your birthday

[Sophie]: yeah today's my birthday

[Tikva]: well happy birthday

[Sophie]: well thank you

[Tikva]: next monday is my birthday

[Sophie]: oh well happy birthday

[Tikva]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: I'm guessing that in a few months when this comes out we're both gonna get a lot of belated birthday wishes uh uh yeah I just I just really wanted to say again I really think you have your finger on the pule of what it's like to be in a polyamorous relationship ya know I don't think I've ever looked at one of your comics and gone oh that doesn't really resonate with me, even when it's dipicting situations that I've never been in  uh it ya know it's really just incredible how it, uhh, how universal some of these feelings and experiences are

[Tikva]: thank you yeah it's I think its interesting that it cause I think of the comic as primarily as being about non-monogamy but a lot of people that follow it regularly are monogamous people who feel like it's helpful for them to and have uhh has uhh situations that are applicable to their relationships as well

[Sophie]: yeah ya know well we always talk about on this show that ya know this show is explicitly polamourous and it's very important to me that everything we talk about is through the lens of polyamory because frankly there's more than enough people out there giving relationship advice to monogamous people and with a monogamous perspective ya know stuff like oh well you'll find the one and everything like that uhh but ya know uhh I don't think that there's ever has been or probably ever will be even a single episode that won't have some good little nugget in there that a monogamous person could ya know take away and use and apply to their life right I always say that I think that ya know this advice is applicable to everyone ya know good advice is good advice and certainly  not ya know all of it is applicable ya know things about ya know how do I interact with my metamor maybe aren't all that ya know uhh applicable but ya know uhh this show is explicitly queer too uhh just like your comic and I don't think that there's anything or I should say that I think that there are very few things in here that would not also benefit a straight person and I guess ya know another thing I wanna bring up is that ya know your comic is so intensly queer

[Tikva]: [uninteligable] queer [laughs] yeah I'm pretty intensly queer that makes sense

[Sophie]: well ya know a lot of the media we get is far from perfect and a lot of the queer representation that we get is uhh ya know really problematic and just uhh not the best and ya know this is something that's made by and for queer people and I think it's something that's really special, so Tikva let me ask you umm when you started out ya know you're a parent and you're polamourous and when you started out as a parent were you intending on ya know raising your child by yourself were you intending on uhh working with somebody else ya know as part of like a two person team or were you always planning on having a small polycule kind of ya know helping raise this child ya know how did that start out because I think for a lot of people umm ya know they have a child and then find themselves engaging in polyamory and everything and most of the time I think people don't really find themselves starting off of saying okay yes I'm going to have this kid and I have a team that's working with me ya know for this and we're all going to raise this kid as a polamourous situation together, I think that that's pretty uncommon so if I can ask, how did it start out for you, were people starting off involved with it or did you kinda rope people in as time went on because not that there's anything wrong with it but I think a lot of people find themselves getting roped into a family and that's ya know their introcution to it

[Tikva]: right yeah [uninteligable] that'll happen a lot even in just monogamous relationships because of step parents and things like that um which is actually how I started out as a parent I am a step parent umm that my uhh the person who I was romantically partnered with at the time and who is my co-parent and umm uhh and uhh one of the main characters of my comic umm he had a when I met him he had a son who was about eight from a previous maraige and umm that kid is super awesome he is not a kid anymore he is in college now umm but so I started out being a step parent and having all of those types of experiences sort of like umm I mean very similar to what a lot of people in monogamous relationships would have experienced being a step parent umm and I just happen to be polyamorous and we actually when we started our relationship I was openly polamourous and he identified as monogamous umm but we tried to find a balance inbetween those things so we sort of at first I was in other relationships and then we took a time period where when I wasn't in any other relationships at the time we took a few years where it was just us when I got pregnant myself umm because that was what seemed like it made sense at the time and umm then eventually the two of us just happened to get into a relationship with another couple who were polyamorous we all just sort of fell in love with each other so that we were just all of the sudden this quad and they loved our child we just sort of fell in this very sweet co-parenting situation where there were four adults to one baby she was about maybe one or two I think two when we met them umm we're not all together anymore actually not with any of those people anymore in a romantic context but umm what he he my original co-parent obviously still my co-parent and a very important person in my life umm and he ended up uhh feeling like being, romantically monogamous was important enough to him that he wanted to do that umm not with me, because it's something that is important to me to be not doing, umm so we we ended up finding that our relationship works better, at least for right now with the romantic elements, not there, and which is like worked out surprisingly well we sort of think like our, society sort of tells us that uhh the romantic part of the relationship is neccecary for you to be emotionally connected and like if the romantic part isnt there the sexual part isn't there then like its there's a problem or like theres a, like you're supposed to be mad at each other and all these things and I, don't think that that's true

[Sophie]: ya know, uhh, when we talk about polyamory and relationship anarchy and things like that it's important to remember that aside from being a gift, and a bottomless resource love is also infinitely varied and takes many forms some of these forms are platonic and we tend to call these people friends and everything   uuhh some of them are romantic and we have other words for that but I think the term friend for some of the relationships that I have it's not the right word and I wish we had a better one uhh because the feeling I lo- the feeling of love I have for some of my ya know quote unquote friends is so intense ya know I would go to the ends of the earth for some of these people uhh even farther perhaps than some of my casual partners which feels weird to say but the reality is is that these people are your family, ya know that's who you've chosen to build your life around uhh and that's ya know a wonderful beautiful thing ya know and that doesn't mean just because a relationship is no longer romantic doesn't mean that uh a failure by any means ya know

[Tikva]: yeah

[Sophie]: we talked about breakups in a previous episode and uh ya know in those situations where  a relationship ends that doesn't nececarily mean it was a failure and just because a relationship continues that doesn't mean it is a success there are a lot of relationships that continue uhh pretty much ad nauseum [laughs] and are in no way succeses at all and ya know I think that that's very important to remember uhh ya know there's a whole lot more to a relationship than it just continuing forever, so let me as you ya know uhh if someone's thinking about becoming a polyamorous parent or inviting someone into uh to help them parent and and kind of starting to have that kind fo polycule parenting structure or thinking of joining one themselves is thre any advice that ya know you'd want uhh that you'd want to give to them when they're just starting out

[Tikva]: mmmm, well I guess that there's so many variables I don't think that there's like one particular thing that would be like universally helpful but I think I keep telling people, cause I run a a polamourous uhh meet up group in the ashville area and umm there are a lot of parents in the group who want uhh resources about umm about polyamorous parenting and umm sort of like how do I, x, y, z, and a lot of the specific things that they bring up in the group are not actually neccecarily polyamorous questions they're more like they're more things that are about step parenting and things like that like combining families like kids who come from different parents like those kids getting along or not getting a long and things like that and combining households and sharing resources those types of questions and like and I think that there are I mean there are a lot of resources that exist that are not written for us but it doesn't matter [laughs] they're for there are a lot of resources out there for step parents and for for people who are combining families like in in a monogamous way but ya know like bringing in kids from another partner and things like that and so becdause there are a lot of reosurces that already exist for step parents umm I feel like we can just use those resources that already exist and take out the things that apply to us and our families and it doesn't matter that they're written for monogamous people because it's really just a lot of it is the same stuff concerning kids and like bringing in kids from other families and  having, being a parent to a kid that is not from your body like these sorts of things like the same sorts of things can come up in a monogamous or non monogamous relationship so using the resources that alreday exist I think is a good idea and also there are new things coming out all the time umm I think doctor sheff, is a good resources doctor elizabeth sheff has done a lot of research into polamourous families and has written a few books on that topic umm

[Sophie]: is that chef like yes chef cut the vegetable chef or-

[Tikva]: of uh it's spelt s-h-e-f-f

[Sophie]: [laughs] okay cool yeah no I just thought our listeners might wanna be ablso to google that  

[Tikva]: yeah look up doctor sheff she's done a lot of writing on polyamorous families based on reserach that she's done umm that spans decades so it's good stuff umm she wrote a book the polamorists next door which is helpful also I think just like one of the main things that can really help people who have any sort of difficutly just like having other people to talk to about it and umm so like being a part of a like a poly meet up group and maybe even if like maybe in your area if there's a poly meet up group and there isn't already a family specific subgroup you can start one, like anounce to the group like hey I'm a polyamorous family I want to hang out with other families maybe we could have like play dates or like um maybe we just hang out and talk about uhh like sort of form a support group around a specific topic can be very helpful

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely so the next question has to do with stigma uhh ya know families like ours and relationsips like those that we engage in aren't always the most widely accepted I guess I'm just wondering ya know for you how has ya know polyamorous stigma played a role in ya know your ability to have a family and make it feel like a cohesive unit and ya know feel like uhh ya know feel like you belong within a larger society

[Tikva]: umm I think it varies family to family especially depending on what where they live and who they're surrounded by what they're life looks like, I have been very lucky in my life to be in a part of the country that like is pretty open minded and surrounded by people who are also open minded my family is very open minded so I haven't had a lot of difficutly myself I'm very luck in that way, there was one incident in which a neighbor uhh like found out that I wrote a webcomic about polyamory and was very concerned and like called social services on us to like get to be investigated to see if any shady shenaigans were going on such as sex duneons in front of  children and stuff like that which was obviously not [laughs] what was happening and like someone came to the house to interview us about that which was stressful and just because of the I guess it's not neccecarily a inherently stressful situation but it's pretty understandable that that would be stressful like social services suddenly showing up all things considered it wasn't as stressful as as it sounds [laughs] because umm the woman who showed up was very nice and she was very understanding and she and I was like woah this is so bizzare and umm she was like so you write this webcomic about polyamory I was like yes lets- I'll show you the one I wrote today it was like something about  like my character Marco like [laughs] telling like saying something about like how it's okay to have the emotional experience that you're having she was like oh this sounds very grounded and good advice sounds like you're a great parent actually here I'm wasting your [uninteligable] [laughs] kind of like, it was funny because it was so bizzare and I didn't feel like I was in danger of losing my child or anything like that so like that part wasn't frightening but it was irritating that it was wasting this person's time and like this person who should be doing important work for other families that actually need the help was being wasted on this situation and becdause of beuracracy she had to come back a couple of times or at least twice something like that happened

[Sophie]: well and it's invasive

[Tikva]: sure yeah

[Sophie]: sounds like the neighbor was a real asshole

[Tikva]: yeah [laughs] I mean this person was like, uniformed because of stigma this person like heard the word polyamorous assumed that it meant umm like sexually uhh something some dramatic thing about sex and which it is also some people are have a lot of sex and that's fine but I'm not really [laughs] it was so funny like at the time my child was younger umm she's almost eight now she was like three at the time when this happened three or four or something like that and umm [laughs] it was like it uhh a moment in time where I the social worker was asking questions about sex she had all these questions about sex like you have sex uhh like uhh do you have orgies in front of children and those types of things and I'm like no like I'm at a place in my life where I just don't even have sex [laughs] like I'm a young mom like I just

[Sophie]: yeah if you're a young parent you're pretty much not having sex that's pretty much the end of it

[Tikva]: [uninteligable] like seriously like how many young parents like really have a lot of sex like I don't have time to have sex and [laughs] I, and and there's certainly nothing wrong with parents who do have lots of sex and do go to sex duneons and things as long as it's not in front of the kids but it was such a bizzare experience cause I like wasn't even having very much sex and like these questions it was just like it was very surreal and umm and funny but um but yeah so there's certainly a stigma around being polyamorous linking it to sexual deviance which in our culture which is so puritan still and afraid of sex can be problematic because then people make moral judgements about you based on sex which is like awkward if you are a person having a lot of sex or it's awkward if you're just aperosn having average amounts of sex and it's for me in times when I it was especially aggrivating to me when I felt people would say thin- like make little comments make little jokes about something along the lines of like like not neccecarily slut shaming but like something on that spectrum those types of jokes about being polyamorous at me [laughs] and my response internally would be like I'm probably having less sex than you monogamous person and just like have that response like I just always thought that was funny and it's something that still happens with people that i know like friends of mine people still make umm just uniformed little jokes cause they don't actually really understand yeah it's certainly annoying that there's such a stigma aroung sex in our culture umm in a way that like makes it weird if you're having too much or not enough sex ya know accoring to whatever, whoever's keeping track [laughs] there's a- people like think there's something wrong with you if you're having more or less than whatever is the appropriate average and like and the label polyamorous umm like certainly gives people like an assumtion a lot of the time about where you are on that which can be awkward for people who do have a lot of sex too because umm because there's this stigma so people I think it seems like a lot of polyamorous feel a pressure to like make themselves seem quote unquote normal when they talk about their relationships and like emphasize oh it's all about love and all this even though that's true umm I feel like there's this pressure to talk about it that way and sort of minimize the sexual component too which is also not good and like really whatever is nourishing for people in their relationships should just be fine and it's not anybody else's business

[Sophie]: ya know and I think it's very interesting when we're talking about it from our perspective because we're not just polyamorous, we're queer and certainly not all queer people are polyamorous but a lot of polyamorous people are queer and uhh ya know there is an aspect of added stigma there ya know we really are only what five years if that ya know from people having very public very heated and uhh kind of horrible conversations about whether or not any queer person is fit to be a parent at all ya know and ya know now it's getting to be more taboo to say that but ya know certainly we are not far removed from that so I think it's not at all surprising when we talk about the struggles that polyamorous people go through and when we talk about polyamorous queer people ya know people who are part of both of those groups are gonna face some added stigma and it's unfortunate but it is what we're dealing with right now so moving back into our main topic ya know I love where the tangent when but as someone who uhh sees myself helpfully going where you are in a few years ya know I just have so many questions ya know I uhh I'm not a polyamorous parent and I never have been like I said a minute ago I see myself going that direction but I'm not there now and so when I think of like benefits that come from it I can only really speculate and I guess some of them that come to mind for me ya know there's that old adage it takes a village to raise a child and the more positive adult role models you have as a child I think the better off you are and then of course if you are struggling with some sort of disability having kind of a team of people that are on your side  and are helping you out and everybody's pitching in ya know a little bit can make it a whole lot easier than kind of trying to do it on your own but in your experience ya know aside from maybe those things uhh exactly ya know in your experience what uhh ya know what are the real benefits to a polyamorous parenting situation

[Tikva]: umm well for me like when I was talking about before when I was co-parenting with my my uhh with my partner and then suddenly there were four of us uhh and my child at the time was two that was amazing because it was during a time where I was, being a young parent is or a parent of a young child is difficult it's a huge life transition and I was tired all the time and it's just constant constant attention is required and so having extra people around  or not extra but having more people around than just one othher person was extreemly helpful because not only did it relieve, it provided us with more time to be able to do other things like sit down [laughs] like pee by myself or hang out with my partner which is huge like you unless you like are in a position where you can you have like family helping you or you are able to get child care a lot of the time when you are raising a child with just one partner you don't really get to hang out with that partner ya know like it's which can be a big strain on the relationship and umm and like for like a lot of parents will just hang out when the kid is asleep but a lot of times when the kid is asleep you wanna be asleep so you just sort of there's a lot less time to connect to each other and it's important to have time away with each other and having three partners that are with people talk about umm like people who are imagining polyamory are like how do you have enough time to connect to theese people and it's funny like in that situation I felt like I had a lot more time to connect to all those people becdause the other people were there to be with the child sometimes and it felt like a really good windshield to have four adults to one child I was like oh because after two years of it being two adults to one child I was like oh this is like [laughs] four adults to one child seems like a really good ratio [laughs] and certainly things are different when there are multiple children and once children are old enough to start playing with each other it changes everything too umm I ended up later having a girlfriend who had a child who got a long with my child and that was a whole different awesome situation because I mean for obvious reasons like our children got a long with eachother so we could like hang out and have play dates for the kids which were also dates for us mom dates with each other, cause like otherwise a lot of time I had to like to go on a date with somebody I had to like arrange with my co-parent or like find child care somewhere or like my child was not yet in school at the time and so having a girlfriend who also had a kid who got along with my kid just made it so we could hang out and the kids were playing didn't need our attention constantly and so we could all hang in the same space and she and I were able to have a conversation and so that was really nice

[Sophie]: yeah and well I think ya know the more positive adult role models a kid has the better off they're going to be

[Tikva]: yeah for sure and also like a different examples of like different examples of how to be an adult I think is helpful to kids umm

[Sophie]: yeah ya know I think you're absolutely right uhh I saw this comic one time, I don't think it was one of yours it was ya know a guy at a bar talking to a girl and was like oh you're not like other girls ya know and she was like my dude I am an amalgamation of every girl I ever thought was cool okay and I think you can take that  and extend it to ya know adults in that case and I think that ya know saying listen I am an amalgamation of every adult I saw as a kid and went wow they are incredible ya know they are well adjusted whatever I wanna be like them and I think giving kids the greatest diverstity in who to pick from in who they want to be like and to chose their own role models is very important so uhh ya know on this show we try to  talk about both sides of the issue when it comes to polyamory and certainly ya know I'm very polyamours I love polyamory I think it's wonderful and certainly I think it's the best option for me personally but ya know sometimes there are some things about polyamourus situations that make them require a little more nuance and be a little more difficult to navigate when compared to a ya know monogamous situation so ya know are there any uhh kind of problems that in your mind fit that bill when we talk about polyamours parenting is ya know when we talk about poly or co-parenting is there any kind of extra things that you think come up that polyamorous people often have to deal with

[Tikva]: umm [laughs] the immidiate thing that came to mind was in regards to sharing holidays with like a standard monogamous family umm [laughs] I'm just thinking about one specific example so I'm just gonna say that so this upcoming valentines day I have a partner who had had an idea of planning this surprise thing to do together and then mentioned it to me like will you be able to come and do this   thing with me and he doesn't live in the same city as me so he had to make sure that I would be able to actually be in the same city for it to work before hand so he said hey I want to plan this surprise thing can you come on valentines day and do this thing with me and I was like oh that's really sweet but I had already had the idea that my co-parent would want to be with his partner umm on valentines day I know that like that's more important holiday to him than it really is to me [laughs] so I had already like offered to watch the child and uhh so and my first thought was oh can you bring your girlfriend to this thing that you had thought that you and I would do together and like all of that like I just I mean I guess this isn't really a problem but like for somebody else like I thought that wholel situation was very sweet like if everybody involved really cared about celebrating valentines day like if things didn't work out like if once person had to stay in town to be able to be with the child because the other person really wanted to leave town I can just imagine a scenario where that would be difficult I think I don't have a good answer [laughins] to that question, I'm not immidiately thinking of anything that is inherently a problem that's like poly-specific although it's like it's interesting I brought up doctor sheff's work earlier she did a lot of reserach into poly families umm case she was looking for like she had the assumtion that there would be poly-specific problems to poly families and her reserach pointed to uhh actually that like the opposite polyamorous tended to be more have a lot more strength because of and be more resilient because of there being more adults around to be able to do things and that all of the problems that those families had were problems that already were problems anyway like are problems that monogamous people have to like none of the problems were she didn't come accross and new problems that were poly-specific is my memory from her reserach and I thought that was very interesting

[Sophie]: huh, that's very interesting I'll have to pick up one of her books, so were runnin a little short on time here so I think I'm gonna have you plug your stuff now if there's anything that you'd like to plug

[Tikva]: well I have two books that are out right now the first one is ask me about polyamory which is a compoliation of the webcomic that I've been talking about the Kimchi Cuddles webcomic so the first book is ask me about polyamory and the second book is sort of remenicint of the webcomic but it's a different sort of storyline it's based on people from my actual life so it's that it has that in common but instead of being a series of little comics it's one whole story it's the whole book so it's a graphic novel called love retold it's a polyamours love story and I have a new book that's coming out this year which is not written yet [laughs] well it's not drawn yet I've wrote it but so all these books are through thron tree press and uhh the third one that's coming out is based on a class that I've been teaching when I go to poly conventions which is about theraputic comic drawing and people really like the class it's sort of like a going through process that I have done for myself of uhh processing through my emotions through the use of comic drawing and I sort of I wrote a book walking people through the process it was really fun to write and I'm going to have a lot of fun drawing it and I think it's going to be an amazing book when it's finished and that one is called it's okay feelings I got you

[Sophie]: well you know Tikva I just wanna say I ya know I've been able to pull it together pretty well this whole time but I really have been geeking out over here not just because I like your comic and you're creating relateable content and stuff like that but ya know I have relationships now that are ya know that are still going that I genuinely believe are only still going because of your comic and because of things that I've learned from it and things I picked up along the way that you have kind of put out there and so your art is incredibly meaningful and incredibly powerful so it's just really important to me that you hear that and I'm sure you do all the time but I wanted you to hear it from me because I think that you create really really amazing content and I think it's important for you to hear that it helps people in a very real way

[Tikva]: thank you that's really meaningful I uh I mean I put things down on paper and it's helpful to me too cause I don't always know those things [laughs] just knew it in the moment I wrote it down so it's really helpful to me it's funny I have a snarky partner who's amazing but sometimes like sent me links to my own comics and like ya know [laughs] like god dammit

[Sophie]: that's really excelent so before we get going I just wanna remind our listeners that we have a patreon which you have the link to on your cover art you also have the link to our facebook page our twitter account and our email uhh which is an email address not a link and you can't click on them becdause it's an image that's how images look I'm told but you can type them into the search bar and go visit these places and boy would we ever appriciate it if you did and I want to give a shout out to our patrons thank you to Mitch hamilton, Marissa alexa mccool and ari stillman, thank you to Jade, thank you Vlad and thank you miles kataro, y'all are seriously awesome uhh that's all the patrons we have at the time when we're recording this so if you're hearing and you go what the hell I donated money and I didn't get a shoutout it's comin don't you even worry about it, if you're lookin to get your name on the show that starts at just one dollar a month a five dollars a month you get access to some bonus conent we've uploaded and at ten dollars a month you get all the episodes a week early and everything else from the other levels obviously ya know you're not gonna miss out on the bonus episodes for upgrading that would be weird but ya know I just wanna give all of our wonderful fans a shout out and a wonderful thank you because you all absolutely make my day whenver you listen to this and I just wanna say if you enjoyed the program that absolutely fills my heart and you should share it with at least one friend or partner this week just download it on their phone for them because they'll forget the name, I think it's catchy but ya know when you're just being told about it at the gym or whatever it is hard to remember so just do them that favor give them the gift of this show and my horrible sense of humor download your favorite episode on there for them and let them listen to it and if they like it then that's great and if they don't then thats not on you you're not repsonsible for their poor taste so yeah I think that's about it this time thanks again for oh and I also wanna mention we have advertising slots on the show email us to find out more information about that they start at just five dollars an episode so thanks again for listening and remember don't date your best friend's dad and don't date your dad's best friend

[Tikva]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: see ya next time folks

["Good old fashioned lover boy" by Queen plays]

[Announcer]: This show was part of the trans podcaster visibility initiative

[End transcript]

#polyamradio #polyam #polyamory #polyamorous parenting #kimchi cuddles #tikva wolfe #queer #trans #ep10

[polyamradiotranscripts]

Ep. 9 Dating as  a Survivor

polyAM Radio Episode Nine-Dating as a survivor

[Begin Transcript]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody and welcome to polyam radio the best show on the internet about polyamory that weird relationship thing you do with lots of other people

["Crazy little thing called love" by Queen plays]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody welcome to polyam radio my name is Sophie Last-Name-Redacted and I'm here with a new guest host Kerra Faith, I use she her pronouns, Kerra uses she hers as well and Kerra why don't you uhh why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself

[Kerra]: yes umm, I'm Kerra Faith and I am monogamous so I umm do not engage in more than one umm or have more than one partner and I umm promote activism for survivors so people who experience violence I support them and provide advocacy and awareness for them

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely uhh ya know you mentioned you're monogamous uhh ya know we're not gonna kick you out or anything but I just uhh ya know normally we try to have people on this show who are polyamorous just because it's part of the community and because we uhh tend to understand ourselves better but Kerra is such a wealth of information about umm ya know victim empowerment and survivor empowerment and promoting awareness about sexual assualt and stuff like that that uhh for this episode I kinda figured that she'd be indinspensible umm so if anybody is wondering about that, that's why she's just a really great resource and you've led tons of programs and created tons of resourses on the colligiate leven and frankly as one activist to another I'm kind of excited to see what you're going to do next

[Kerra]: yeah

[Sophie]: umm but so this episode this week is got some trigger warnings on it if you couldn't tell from the title I just want to remind you it is going to be about uhh sexual assualt we are going to be talking about some topics umm it's not going to be really getting into some of the nitty gritties of what that's like uhh obviously it's more about how do you kind of rediscover romance and dating and how do you ya know how do you learn to kind of uhh re-enter the dating game and whatnot after an assualt and how do you move forward although certainly ya konw not implying that someone needs to move on but always ke- we wanna make sure that we are moving forward and umm ya know as a survivor myself I've got some experience with that and as I've said Kerra just does an absolute ton of activism aroun this umm so we figured that it would be good to talk about and uhh I umm  I hope that this episode helps people and I hope that if this episode is going to be a poor experience for you and if it's going to be very triggering us talking about the topic of sexual assualt and some tools that you can put in your tool box to keep moving forward and whatnot and to help yourself if that's going to be triggering for you, despite the fact that there's going to be a lot of good information in here I do encourage you to uhh just turn it off and tune in next week or two weeks from now or whenever because your saftey and your health is paramount and it's important to remember that so yeah hopefully this episode helps people and hopefully it doesn't hurt anyone cuz I would hate to see that happen so advocate for yourself and take care of yourself, you're very important to me if you're listening to this , but, so, ya know, moving right along into our main topic we talk about communication on this show a lot ya know we always say you gotta commmuunicate[drawn out], umm  ya know Kerra in your epxerience when you're a survivor and when you talk to survivors and stuff like that uhh what are somethings that you need to make sure that you communicate

[Kerra]: some things that umm I recommend communicating are with your partner are what your triggers are so letting them know what may affect you negatively potentially umm if you're in a relationship being able to set boundaries for that to accomadate yourself because every experience is different and unique and it's okay to have specific expecations um also communicating with regards to what happens when you're triggered and sometimes you might umm respond a certain, things in certain ways so ya know every if something would occur you might not respond the same way so letting them know that so they don't expect the same thing every time

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely there was a close friend of mine that had a trigger that uhh involved being stood behind she couldn't have people stand behind her or sneak up on her in any way and there was one time where quite inadvertendly ya know we were in a room together with lots of other pepole and I was trying to walk along the perimiter and happened to walk behind her and she beat the ever loving shit out of me, really, I was laid out for probably a good ten or fifteen minutes uh and she felt really bad about that and I kind of didn't I guess because she told me she had commmuunicated that she said hey, just so everyone knows, don't walk behind me stuff like that and at that point it's kinda like walkin behind a horse, I knew better and I shouldn't've done it and it slipped my mind for just a moment and uhh I didn't think it would be an issue certainly I wasn't trying to startle her but I inadvertendly did and uhh she responded volitally and to be frank she responded violently and uhh ya know I think that that's well within her rights certainly I mean she was, uhh ya know with PTSD a lot of the times when we're reacting to triggers people talk about it like oh are you triggered you snowflake or whatever but when you react to triggers a lot of times it's self-preservation you're trying to protect yourself and I think that that's something that's important to state ya know something that umm like ya know tell someone things you need them to know so you can protect yoursef and uhh ya know what you will need or I should say what will happen if they don't do that because ya know uhh ya know just say hey like I've been the victim of violence alot and sometimes my responses can be volitle because ya know it's a self-preservation thing or whatever beucase that's generally good for people to know even if so that way when they mess up they're like that's completely on me not like what the fuck is wrong with you it's like nope, I realy should have seen this coming I knew better and I'm sorry ya know that's that's an important interaction to have

[Kerra]: yeah umm just adding on to triggers umm triggers can come and go and they can occur through like your senses so might not even know that you have a trigger but if you smell something or hear something or you're in a certain place it might just come about so ya know just letting your partner know that there might be more triggers potentially  or letting yourself be aware of that cuz for the most part they just come all of the sudden

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely and I would also say that ya know trying to commmuunicate what you think you will typically need to happen next ya know when you're triggered say okay I'm triggered, what do I need, do I need to be left alone, do I need to be commmuunicated to, is it going to help if someone apologizes or is someone saying oh my god I'm so sorry I didn't mean to do that is that [laughs]only going to make it worse and do you need them to shut up and give you a minute, do you need to be held, do you need to not be touched, do you need a blanket, do you need water, do you need fourty two peeled grapes and someone to sing soft kitty warm kitty to you, it sounds ridiculous but if that's what you need, you are entitled to it and I do not wanna make a joke out of it at all whatever you need you are entitled to it this is a form of self-preservation and indeed it's a form of self care in a lot of ways, you've just been through something traumatic and ya know we don't laugh when people put a shock blanket over someone after like ya know a building comes down or something like that so if a, ya know if a pressure blanket or something is something that you need ya know after being uh kind of hitting a land mine then certainly that's uhh ya know you're entitled to it and umm certainly telling pepole that that you need these things will make it easier to aquire them, ya know we talk about a lot of stuff that, I'm always worried about making pepole feel like they need to do certain things ya know what I mean

[Kerra]: right

[Sophie]: when we talk about, whenever we talk about resources or advocacy or something like that we always talk about things that you can do and what not and I don't want to say that anybody has to do anything because ya know being a survivor is a really unique experience for everyone who is unfortunate enough to go through it and uhh ya know healing's a unique proccess so it's realy important that you make your own choices and ya know that its okay to move at your own speed, if you're not ready for ya know some of the information that we give you in this episode and if you're not ready to do some of these things that's okay and I think that that's important ya know this is a roadmap to success you don't have to do it all at once and certainly there are going to be things that we miss and things that we don't talk about in this episode so this isn't a ya know the say all end all about it but ya know we just wanna make sure that everybody knows ya know  there's a like I said healing's   a unique process there's no wrong way to respond to triggering stimuli and expressing your feelings is always valid and ya know even when it hurts you and maybe others uhh ya know you're recovering from something and this is the emotionally equivalent of uhhya know swelling ya know or uhh scabbing over or something like that this is healing isn't a monolithic process it's unique depending on what the injury was and it's not always a comfortable process and ya know you need to be comfortable with the fact that you deserve to heal, whatever that means and whatever that looks like I think

[Kerra]: exactly, I completely agree with that umm there's a quote that says you can't heal in the same place you got hurt and I know you were telling me about this

[Sophie]: yeah it was just a meme I saw but I really liked it

[Kerra]: yeah umm I feel like it really speaks to survivors in that sense where ya know you have to work hard for yourself to be able to learn to trust again after something happens and being able to heal is a long proccess and unique for everyone as we were discussing before and often times when we're hurting we reach out to- for something that's more similiar to what we've experienced umm and sometimes that by doing that it can sometimes inadvertendly trigger us part of the healing may be finding areas without familiar and triggering stimuli so trying to be more, being vulnerable into some situations depending on your comfort

[Sophie]: I think you're absolutely right I think that a lot of times ya know when someone is recovering from any kind of abuse whether it's assualt or rape or even just emotional abuse or uhh physical abuse ya know something kind of adjacent to what we're talking about, you can need a change of pace uhh ya know and it can be really hard ya know giving up your favorite restaurant or something, your favorite bar or your favorite spot but if something traumatic and bad happened there it might be bad to keep kind of forcing yourself to go back there and relive that and uhh ya know you have to be kind to yoursef ya know you hafta just uhh ya know it's okay to ya know I'm gonna go all edgelord kylor ren here ya know let the past die, it's okay to let go of some old things and focus on ya know engaging and making new things and finding new favorites and stuff like that as a kind of umm ya know uhh I've been playing kingdom hearts a lot lately so the concept of like rebirth and everything is on my mind, there's a wonderful podcast called got it memorized and it is a kingdom hearts recap podcast and they just did uhh the game chain of memories which I don't know if you've ever played

[Kerra]: I have not

[Sophie]: okay well basically they liken for those of you that have played it the reverse reverse-- reverse rebrith umm part of it where you're playing as Riku working your way up from the basement of castle oblivion they likened a lot of what he goes through with Ansem as to being a survivor of umm well basically just anything they likened it to PTSD but I kind of took it as a survivor of sexual assualt because in the first game literally his body was taken over and he was forced to act without agency and he was manipulated into geting into that  situation basically and umm ya know he eventually kind of fought it off but in this game he's very much dealing with the fallout of that and he's dealing with the vestigies of the darkness that are clinging onto his heart and everything and so uhh I hesitate to say that it's a rebirth proces because I don't wan to get pepole mad at me and whatnot in saying that like umm ya know cuz cuz of course you don't have to change who you are after an assualt you're not a different person neccecarily and certainly you shouldn't feel compelled to change it's just that in that same vein because I've been thinking a lot about the reverse rebirth storyline it often uhh seems to me adjacent to kind of ya know you have to relarn how to do things and whatnot and you have to relarn how to kind of interact with yourself and your triggers, I know I certainly did ya know I don't neccecarily know if I'm a different person now, umm but umm ya know uhh  I don't know my motto kind of for life and for dealing with my ya know uhh past abuses and things like that of which there have been many, is, actually umm from that same game, and it basi- there's a point where he says I walk the road to dawn and it's like even though it's dark right now ya know the night isn't going to last forever and I walk the road to dawn and that's kind of how I think of the rebirth thing so I'm not trying to imply that ya know anyone needs to change who they are as a person or whatever I just think that the process of rediscovering ya know and and reclaiming uhh activities and places and personal relationships and things like that for yourself and sometimes  and certainly sometimes even reclaiming umm ya know sexual relationships or things like that ya know  getting to a point where you feel safe and validated uhh in these situations, in and of itself can be kind of uhh a rebirth process because it was, it's something that you're reclaiming ,maybe reclaiming is a better way of saying it but that just really- to me that speaks volumes I guess and that's my understanding of my own assualt certainly you don't have to agree with me but I don't know if you have any kind of uhh thoughts that you want to say about that ya know you may not agre with me but that's how   kind of how I've come to understand my experience

[Kerra]: yeah that's completely I, you're experience is completely valid, how you, have interpreted that for myself personally as a survivor as well I would say reclaiming is a great way to explain it as a rebirth umm like for myself I've learned more about myself mentally and internally from my assualt and essentially umm like I'm more apt to use my insticts my gut feelings and things where as before I usually wouldn't take those into consideration but it's like my body I feel like my body is trying to tell me something so I'm trying to take myself seriously umm interally cuz it's like you were saying before how   your body protects you and tries to keep you safe in circumstances where you might have a triger or PTSD from your trauma so

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I remember disctinctly there was one time where I umm, a long time partner who I lived with and everything, umm, who is frequently on this show kind of came up behind me and everthing, and that was not a trigger that I neccecarily knew or thought that I had and it's something that I've gotten better with now but basically, uhh, just kind of touch me ya know not even in a sexual way just came into physical contact with me and ya know I absolute I spun around and just grabbed them and in a second pinned their arms to their side and I was just wide eyed and terrifed and I just said no, and scared the living shit out of them scared the everloving bejesus out of them they had no idea what was happening and umm ya know I don't consider myself a violent person at all but ya know that was a  very volitile reaction and certainly I ya know I scared my partner and that was hard for me to kind of come back from ya know to feel like ya know there's this person in my life who is central to everything and has been for years and ya know they're scared of me right now and that's really really hard to know how to deal with ya know umm like I was uhh in a commited relationship during the time that I was assualted and continued afterwords umm ya know and uhh and so I never had to really kind of rediscover uhh dating or whatnot because ya know I was still dating someone but learning how to engaged with that relationship in ways where ya know I was trying to understand myself and I didn't understand myself so how's my partner going to understand me I mean that was really hard umm and it took it took months if not years but I eventually did get there and that that's important for people to hear that ya know you eventually will get there uhh it does get better with time and if you keep trying and especially if you pursue resources and stuff like that uhh ya know if you're hurting now you're not neccecarily broken and even if you feel broken you won't be forever you're a human being you're you I explained to a survivor recently that human beings are incredible, we're tougher than diamond, we're tougher than steel because

[Kerra]: yeah

[Sophie]: because once you break a diamond, it's over it's never going to put itself back together again, but you can completely de- fucking dismantle a human you can take them apart and their body will try to put them back together again that is incredible uhh the fact that we have the capacity to heal and you are a human you are not some piece of steel, or diamond, or cloth, or a porcelain doll or whatever you are a human and you will heal, it will take time but you will heal and I feel like that's really important to hear

[Kerra]: yeah definitely, umm going along those lines even just thinking about surviving what you've been through, you're a survivor, you're so brave for being here today and listening to this and it will eventually get better and healing is a process and it's different for everyone and ya know you might not understand what your process is and it may take a lot of trust and time but eventually you'll find it or you'll find parts of it, it doesn't happen all at once

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely this is the part of the episode where typically I would say lets go make some money and money can't buy me love would play and we'd have a real cheesy uh kind of uhh, transition to the money zone but we're not gonna do that this week I uhh,  ya know it it's twofold, one I wanted to give this topic its due and not interupt with with a bunch of adverts umm, two- ya know secondly I feel that this episode, there may be quite a few people who are unable to listen to this episode because it may be triggering for them or ya know they may be worried about it being a trigger for them and therefore avoid it and our sponsers pay money to be on our show and to have people hear about their stuff so uhh I wanted to give them their due too umm so we're not gonna do that but as always I do wanna remind people we do have real live advertiving slots on the show if you have a podcast, or a book, or an etsy shop, or ya know any thing else that ya know a website, a comic, anything, that you want people to know about uuhh we're starting to have quite a sizable listener base and ya know we can help you spread the word for just five dollars a month that's going to be an ongoing offer for a while I think umm, and, uhh ya know it's it's not like a bilboard or a tv commercial where you pay for it and then it airs and then it's done, it's always gonna be here it's locked in you'll be in these episodes forever and it never gets taken out and it's a one time payment umm so I think it's really worth it and I just wanna put that in there because , a as a kind of verbal cue to let you all know that this is the halfway point but also umm ya know that way uhh ya know we just keep mentioning that opportunity because I think it's a really good one so umm getting back to the topic at hand when we're talking about communication tools for survivors, what's the best way to bring up an assualt in the first place let's say let's say that you're trying to get back into the dating game whether you're polyamorous or not umm and ya know you you meet someone lets not even say at a bar or something like that lets say like maybe you have- maybe you just met somebody new maybe it's a a casual aquaintaince that's become something more now umm ya know when you're talking to them maybe they don't know you that well yet how do you bring up an assualt for the first time that can be a really big scary thing I mean it's ya know it's a lot to say ya know even just ta- communicate that to someone is a lot so what are some tips, I guess for umm for doing that

[Kerra]: right, so for anyone that would wanna share their assualt with someone they just met it can be very scary and a lot for you to decide to share so the important thing to remember is that you can share as much or as little as you want you could just say something's happened to me that's acffecting me or you could say I want you to know that sometimes I get triggers because I've been assualted or there's some things going on that I will even-- maybe be ready to talk about but it's all up to as much or as little as you want and the power is in the hand of you you get to choose how much or how little you wanna say umm, and essentially going with your gut on that as well ya know it can be hard to trust someone to tell this information to cuz it can make you vulnerable and you might worry that they could take advantage of you potentially so just going with your gut like if you feel like maybe I shouldn't bring this up at this time cuz my gut's telling me that might not be good maybe sticking with that and waiting a little bit, and then in addition, not worrying about oversharing you don't have to share specific details of what happend you can just say ya know I was assualt and if the person that you're telling that to is mature enough to understand that then they will accept that and if they're not then you might wanna look for someone else

[Sophie]: right yeah absolutely even if you do overshare, if they are worth being around they will ya know uhh recognize even though you told them a little bit more than was kind of ya know socially apropriate uhh that you're trusting them with something really important and really big uhh you deserve someone who accepts you, bagage and all and you deserve someone who's going to mature about your trauma and about ya know your life experiences and what you've been through here this isn't a god damn joke and people shouldn't treat it like it is, you deserve someone who doesn't treat it like a joke, so ya know a lot of times if you tell someone this they're going to respond with questions about ya know your assualt and ya know your triggers and stuff like that because if they're not a complete ass they're going to treat it like something that matters and they're going to care about it and they might have questions if you tell me that you're a victim of assualt, that you're a survivor I say okay uhh that sucks but I'm glad you told me that, what do you need from me now ya know what are some thing that I may- that I need to make sure that I need to make sure that I do, or make sure that I don't do or whatever, uhh what are some ways as a survivor that you can field questions about these things because that can be really hard ya know even just saying it initially can be really hard so then having a further conversation about it uhh can be really dificult so how do you do that

[Kerra]: right so if someone does ask further questions I mean at the time you can if you're comfortable at the time you can tell them you have certain triggers, but you're not obligated to tell em right away you might say I can't talk about that right now or at all at this time and even if they are responding well so ya know you get to decide, it's not up to the other person its based on your needs so if you wanna say well can we wait another time to talk about that that was a lot for me to say at this time but just so you're aware, umm-

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely ya know we talked earlier about ya know healing being a process and ya know something that you can't rush neccecarily and that you need to take at your own speed and I think that that's really important to remember here

[Kerra]: so another thing umm you could do is being comfortable with yourself and being firm and saying listen you can't just do this thing and I need you to respect that so if you're in a relationship they're trying to ask like regarding your trigger like why can't I do this you don't have to give that explaination you can just say ya know I've been assualted or you don't have to say anything at all you can say just because, I'm not comfortable so being able to advocate on that for yourself is very important cause you're- you are important

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I think that uhh ya know it's important to not feel obligated to explain the why behind your triggers, it's enough to just say listen this is because of my assualt and I wanna leave it at that ya know often times I think people they wanna know the why because they care about you but it's not actually relevant if you say to use that same example before of you can't stand behind me or I might clock you uh ya know well why, well because at some point someone stood behind them and did something they fuckin weren't supposed to be doing and now here we are like what do you want, like it's not a complicated idea you can pretty much suss it out how much gory details do you need than that uhh at that point ya know asking someone to relive that or whatever just so you can uhh ya know just so you can understand exactly what happened to them in that moment is that's that's not for them, that's for you that's being selfish  frankly I think

[Kerra]: yeah

[Sophie]: umm and uhh I don't think anybody means to be selfish when they talk about this stuff but sometimes it happens and uhh we need to strive for better than that at least in my mind

[Kerra]: yeah I agree with that

[Sophie]: so ya know what is- sometimes uhh we get really lucky and the people that we care about and the people that surround us are good people, uhh sometimes they're assholes, uhh ya know if you get unlucky if you decide to trust someone with this information and they respond kinda poorly to your requests and this information, what's the best way as a survivor ya know handle that uhh ya know how do you ya know how do you move forward with that because that can be a pretty big breach of trust ya know so how do you go forward from there

[Kerra]: right so if someone responds poorly to your request it's okay to like take a break and like step away from the conversation just say I need a moment or maybe I need to talk about- lets talk about this tomorrow or telling them that they're handling it very poorly and you don't respect how they're acting, if- if your comfortable doing that that can be very difficult to do umm, but it's so important to advocate for yourself and not give in or halfway ya know don't let- don't feel guilty becuse they're trying to push you to do something you don't wanna do, so setting helthy boundaries for yourself, what is going to make you feel most comfortable and ya know based on what you know about yourself after you've experienced something you have a pretty good idea of what your boundaries are and it's okay to advocate for them umm it's also okkay to walk away and just leave it at that I mean maybe that person just wasn't going to take it and you don't have to explain anymore

[Sophie]: ya know with all of this stuff I think it's important to remember you don't have to meet these people halfway if they're not repsonding well if you say listen uhh because of my assualt I cannot have sex I I can't do it and maybe that'll change someday maybe it won't if you're gonna be with me that's something you need to be okay with and if they say well sex is really important to me uhh how about we just have a little bit of sex you don't have to meet them halfway you are right they are wrong the right answer isn't in the middle you need to protect yourself and you need to advocate for yourself and that's important cause we're so often told exactly the opposite we're told well you have to work with people and well how can you expect them to give up this thing or whatever if they care about you and if they are worth your time because you are worth being cared about you are inherently you have inherent worth then they will respond well to these requests period end of story ya know or at the very least even if they make an ass of themselves in the begining they'll be able to take a step back and introspect and say I was wrong ya know uhh like ya know I've heard all sorts of horror stories from people telling their partners that they've been assaulted and everything but ya know yeah regardless of anything you don't have to meet them halfway you have the right to advocate for yourself and I think that that's really important so ya know lets say that you are not a survivor lets say that you are looking to date someone that is a survivor because ya know uhh certainly there's a lot ofpeople out there that uhh probably find themselves I mean there's a lot of people out there who are survivors which means there's probably a lot of people who find themselves falling absolutely head over heels for people who are survivors what's the best way uhh to communicate ya know if you're ya know if if you're dating a survivor or in a relationship with a survivor or whatever what are some tips for communicating  uhh and and not making an ass of yourself like we talked about before

[Kerra]: so when communicating umm with a potential partner an important thing to consider is to listen to what that person has to say regarding their assualt umm having an open ear umm being non-judemental and really just believing what they say and validating their experience even if it might not sound or make any sense at that time just supporting them and validating everything they have to say

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I think ya know often times uhh when you tell people things umm important things about yourself they feel pressured to give some sort of grand response and everything ya know it's a whole thing like we talk about trans stuff on this podcast all the time ya know when you tell someone you're trans they're like oh okay well I see you this way or and they start like just verbal diareah about like just everything that they're thinking and their putting their foot in their mouth and you really just wish they would stop ya know it's important to just say okay I get it and I support you wahtever you need uhh ya know uhh when someone tell s you hey I think I found a new trigger, okay I get it I support you ya know that's enough it's okay to just say that uhh you don't neccecarily need some big grandiose gesture

[Kerra]: right, umm another thing umm that you could do is you could do some research on the effects of PTSD and other trauma symptoms so that maybe you have a better understanding of where this person might be coming from umm just for your own educational growth umm cause it's a lot to understand if you haven't been through something like this another important aspect is to not treat this person like they're made of glass just because they've been through something very traumatic doesn't mean that you have to-

[Sophie]: tip toe

[Kerra]: tip toe around them yeah you don't have to tip toe around them you don't have to treat them like they're not a human or that they're made of glass you don't have to treat them like they're made of glass, it's very important to repect their boundaries especially if they don't make sense to you because it's their boundaries they're setting their own limits so so having those boundaries enables them to make their own choices and regain their power back

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely you have to advocate for their agency ya know even I think ya know we talk about consent a lot and stuff like that uhh checking in too I think is something that ya know uhh really matters and is really important being like is this okay or something like that if someone tells you that they're the victim of sexual assualt and they say ya know I can still have sex but I can't do these three things maybe and you say okay well when you're doing something that's not those three things it ya know still checking in and being like is this okay ya know are you good especially early on and ya know without making them feel like you think that they're humpty dumpty and they're gonna shatter into a million pieces you don't have to over compensate for that like I said ya know you're not brakeable you're just a little hurt and uhh ya know treat it like you would a uhh ya know a physical injury maybe uhh ya know if someone uhh lets say skinned their knee or their arm really bad and uhh ya know you're having sex after that or whatever uhh ya know just checking in every now and then oh hey hows your arm, or you doing good, it's like ya know oh hey is this good or are we a-- okay cool awesome lets keep doing it this is awesome, uhh ya know or even things non sexual uhh non sexually uhh or even non sexual things uhh ya know it's important to check in ya know be proactive because sometimes being a survivor and everything constantly telling people shit something happened shit something happened you can start to feel really bad and it can sometimes make people feel like they don't want to bring it up and so ya know uhh they feel like they're the killjoy and so ya know proactively asking and stuff like that can really make someone feel cared for in my epxerience

[Kerra]: another thing to consider is being as supportive as possible and definitely being investing in their mental health like Sophie was talking about earlier checking in on them, how are you doing today, ya know just simple things it doesn't have to be like how are you doing because of your assualt it can just be, oh how are you doing today is anything coming up for you or anythign like that and just showing that you care is really gonna help

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely ya know I gotta say for me, whenever people try to check in on my I always just feel like I've got to [pounds table twice]

[Sophie]: [Kerra]: [singing] get away I've got to [pounds table twice]

[Sophie]: welcome to pollyfolly a podcast within a podcast where we talk about the crucial mistakes that people commonly make that are the downfall of their polyamorous relationships

["Tainted love" plays]

[Sophie]: So ya know uh we kind of both came up with things for the pollyfolly this week Kerra ya know what do you think is probably the biggest single mistake that people make uhh ya know engaging in dating ya know survivors and everything you kind of took dating a survivor and I kind of took  uhh dating as a survivor so why don't you say yours first

[Kerra]: oh okay so if you're umm dating a survivor and they don't respond to a trigger once it doesn't mean it's safe to do now so they might have informed you about a trigger and maybe they didn't respond to it at one point in case you accidentally crossed that line that doesn't mean that they won't do it or that there might be new ones that could potentially come about so just being aware that there are triggers that you might not know of for your partner as well as there are some that you know of your partner and they might not respond to them everytime it just depends on the situation

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely cause sometimes bad shit happens and you don't even realize it ya know sometimes uhh ya know triggering things can happend and ya know uhh it it slips by you you don't even notice it and it's not triggering and uhh I think that that's really important uhh ya know for me I think if you're a survivor failing to sufficiently advocate for yourself I don't mean to sound victim blaming at all uhh ya know it is hard to do and anyone who uhh has been through an assualt has my uhh has my love and support uhh ya know regardless of anything umm ya know but you have to advocate for yourself umm and uhh I think a lot of times peope don't sufficiently advocate for themselves ya know they don't ya know if  someone says something or does something they don't say hey stop it you can't do that or if someone says something shitty they're not like hey what the hell or they're scared to tell pepole about their triggers and stuff like that umm you need to trust the people around you and you need to trust tha they care about you enough that they want to know that there's things that they should or should'nt be doing and if the people around you generally aren't worth of that trust then maybe you need to surround yourself with better people and that's hard but it is worth doing so I think that that's really important uhh few points of order quick before we wrap it up today we have a twitter facebook and apatreon all of which including our email are on your cover art so  it would be really cool to hear from ya it would also be really cool if you would support us on patreon rewards start as little as one dollar a month thank you to Miles Kataro and Vlad as well as umm Jade and Ari Stilman and Marissa Alexa Mcool are our current patrons at least at the time of recording this, at the one dollar and up you get a shoutout on the show which is what that was five dollars and up you get access to a bonus episode that we uploaded uhh and I think it's all really cool stuff we really appricate your continued support and even a dollar a month from a few more of you would really help us offset the cost of some new equipment that we're gonna be investing in uhh so it would really help us make this be the absolute best it can be also if you enjoy the podcast please this week as a personal favor to me share it with at least one friend or partner just download it onto their phone and say hey I'm gonna give you this really cool thing  uhh and that way they'll have it and they can listen to it whenever ya know we don't have the money to pay for advertiving so if this is going to work it'll pretty much be on you all I can't tell you how amazing it feels to know that we are ya know we are creating something cool and our fan base is seriously growing and uhh it's absolutely amazing ya know every week more and more people uhh are tuning in and I'm getting people are contacting me on twitter and ya know email and whatnot telling us that this has really postively helped them and that's just amazing umm so uhh you all rock you're the absolute uhh you're the absolute best and you as always my love and support uhh so thanks for listening and remember

[Sophie]: [Kerra]: don't date your best friend's dad and don't date your dad's best friend

[Sophie]: see you next time folks

["Good old fashioned lover boy" by Queen plays]

[Announcer]: This show was part of the trans podcaster visibility initiative

[End transcript]

#polyamradio #polyamory #podcast #trans #queer #lgbt #sexual assualt #trauma #abuse #dating as a survivor #ep9

[polyamradiotranscripts]

Ep. 8 Breakups

Sophie: Hello everybody and welcome to PolyAMRadio, the best show on the internet about polyamory, that weird relationship thing you do with lots of other people

(Crazy Little Thing Called Love by Queen plays)

Sophie: Hello everybody! Welcome to PolyAMRadio, my name is Sophie Lastnameredacted and I use she/her pronouns

Mara: I’m Mara Fakelastname and I use they/them pronouns

Sophie: This week, um, (sighs) you know, I’m sorry, I-I’m sorry,  I know you all tuned in for a great podcast episode, but, it’s just feeling a little stale, I guess? And I’m not sure I can keep doing this, to be honest

Mara: But… but Sophie, I thought things were going so well! Like, we have a really great podcast together

Sophie: Yeah, I mean, it was great for a while

Mara: (overlapping) I just, I don’t understand

Sophie: Yeah, and it was great for a while, it was a lot of fun, but I just don’t think it’s working for me anymore

Mara: but, but what about the promise we made to each other, Sophie, to, to, you know, make this podcast as great as possible, and, and do this together and I just, I-I’m really confused, I mean, this is coming out of nowhere

Sophie: Yeah, well…

Mara: Is there something I can do?

Sophie: I dunno, I just feel like it’s too far gone, I feel like we just need to stop, you know?

Mara: (sighs) I-I-I just, I, I can’t believe this is happening

Sophie: I know, and it was so good for so long, it’s just, it’s become something toxic, and I think it needs to end

Mara: I just, I can change!

Sophie: Like, like change the editing software we use?

Mara: I don’t, I don’t know! I just, tell me what I can do so I can fix this, Sophie, I really wanna have this podcast with you

Sophie: Okay, we need to stop this skit cuz it’s starting to distress me seeing you like this

Mara: (laughs)

Sophie: Um, it, um, like, haha, haha, funny, but I’m actually becoming rather distressed looking at you like this and I’m about to start crying so we need to stop

Mara: alright cool, I did my job then

Sophie: yeah

Mara: (laughs)

Sophie: Um, so I am a weenie folks

Mara: (laughs) I was committed to that, I was gonna follow through, like I was ready, (Sophie: Yeah) I was gonna start crying, I was, oh my gosh (Sophie: Yeah) I was waiting for you to whip out “it’s not me” er, “it’s not you, it’s me” like I was, I was ready

Sophie: It’s always me folks. Um, (Mara and Sophie chuckle) no, we’re not ending the podcast, that was a ham-fisted attempt at a skit, cuz this week, we’re talking about breakups. Breakups are an unfortunate reality of relationships, you know, if you’re gonna have relationships, then sometimes those relationships end. It’s really unfortunate, but it’s important to know how to be able to handle it, uh, with a little bit of poise, and uh, just, you know, a clear head, so it can be as easy on everyone as possible. So, there are some important things you need to keep in mind when we’re talking about breakups

Mara: And, uh, we just wanted to talk about this because this is something that we actually kinda experienced really recently, um, it’s not even that recent anymore, it just still feels really fresh, um

Sophie: Well it’s been about three months but it still feels really fresh

Mara: Yeah, we actually had a nesting partner leave us, and it was really, really hard, and I think, over the last three months we kinda experienced firsthand, you know, some of the upsides and some of the downsides to what a polyamorous re-, uh, a polyamorous breakup kind of looks like. Uh, so the first thing that I think is really important to keep in mind is that just because a relationship ends doesn’t mean it was a failure. Uh, we talk a lot on this show about kinda the social scripts that our society gives us, and one of the really big ones is that either every relationship ends in marriage, which is successful, apparently, or a breakup Sophie: Not all marriages (Mara: er, yeah), just so you know

Mara: Not ALL marriages

Sophie: Not ALL marriages, yeah, but for real though, just because, uh, we’re gonna talk about how, just because a relationship ends doesn’t mean it’s a failure, but just because a relationship continues doesn’t mean that it’s a functional thing and it doesn’t mean that it’s a success, so keep that in mind

Mara: well, exactly, you know, and just because a relationship ends doesn’t mean that there was necessarily a failure, um, and that’s not even the case necessarily with monogamous relationships , sometimes, but it’s especially not with polyamorous relationships. Uh, sometimes, you know, uh, people change, people uh, like to think of themselves as very static, I think, but we’re very dynamic, we change, our interests change, our brain chemistry changes, all sorts of things can happen that really, you know, might just make you and someone that you were previously compatible with less than compatible, which is pretty unfortunate, honestly

Sophie: Well, and I just wanna say quick, you know, Mara, we talk about being high school sweethearts a lot, and people think that that’s really cute, but I do wanna say that, we started dating, I was seventeen and Mara was sixteen, er…

Mara: Sixteen and fifteen

Sophie; I was sixteen and Mara was fifteen, pardon me, um, I was about to say you were fifteen cuz I knew you were fifteen but I was like, there aren’t two years between us, that’s not right

Mara: yeah, you were sixteen

Sophie: yeah, but so, um, (sighs) you know, we are very different people than we were when we were teenagers, we were dating through a very, uh, tumultuous and a very change-filled stage of our life, uh, of our lives, pardon me, and, you know, we are different people now than when we were starti- than when we started dating, and the fact that we are still together is only through the miracle of us both happening to like who the other one turned into.

Mara: mmhmm

Sophie: you know, so if you’re with someone for a long period of time, or through a period of their life where they’re undergoing changes because they’re growing or maturing or a big tragedy happens or whatever, they might turn into a different person, and you might turn into a different person and it may just not work anymore. And, so the fact that Mara and I are still together has nothing to do with who we were back then, it has everything to do with who we turned into. You know, I was a horrible little shit when I was a teenager (Mara laughs) and Mara, you know, I mean, you had a lot of problems too, and stuff like that Mara: mmhmm

Sophie; so, the fact is that we’re two stupid teenagers who happened to turn into adults who really enjoy each others’ company and love each other. Uh, it’s not that we had some great, functional relationship back then, uh, you know, I think for a lot of years our relationship kind of was a failure and became a success in a lot of ways.

Mara: mmhmm

Sophie: And I think, frankly I think  a lot of relationships start out as failures, just in the sense that, you know, i-in the same way that, I-I’m a student, so like think about it this way, when you start off a course, you’re kinda failing, because you don’t know, you don’t know any information that’s gonna be on the final exam. And that doesn’t mean that it’s bad, it just means that you have work to do. Relationships don’t start off perfect and functional, they start out very not great most of the time, and with bad foundations, because you haven’t put any time in because you met this person yesterday, and then you have to build up from there.

Mara: I, uh…

Sophie: and it’s a difficult thing to do

Mara: See, I wouldn’t necessarily call that a failure though, and maybe that’s just, you know, you say poh-tay-toe and I say poh-tah-toe, uh, but, you know, it’s not, it’s not that you have a bad foundation, it’s that you have no foundation, you need to kind of like, say ‘hey, let’s build this house of a relationship together,’ because apparently, this relationship is gonna be a house now, um, but you know, like let’s dig into the ground so we can start to build this foundation, you know, it’s, it’s, you need to, I think a lot of times people don’t know how to do that, necessarily? And I think, you know, not everybody wants to do that, not everybody wants to build a very big relationship. Some people are just in it for the more casual, let’s kind of walk alongside each other for a little bit and see where things go, and I think that’s where we were when we were in high school, you know, neither of us were thinking maybe even a week ahead at that time in our lives, you know, it’s, we were still learning how to be people, um, you know, and we decided to keep walking next to each other until we found a spot that we wanted to build a house in, and now we’re building a house

Sophie: yeah, for sure. I guess for me I’m I’m I’m looking at it from like a credit score standpoint, of like “well I have no credit” okay well technically no credit is bad credit. Like, you know, of a standpoint of like if you have no foundations, that means you need to work on your foundations, in a similar manner to if you had bad foundations: what do you need to work on? Well, your foundations. Certainly I don’t think it’s a sin to start a new relationship, but when you do start a new relationship immediately a lot of times there are things that are wrong, and a lot of times new relationship energy covers that up and tricks us into thinking that everything’s--that nothing’s wrong! That everything is perfect. But there are things that are wrong and eventually you have to deal with those.

Mara: That’s fair, that’s fair. But so like I was saying sometimes people grow apart, sometimes needs change, you know you move into a different chapter of your life and you might not be able to have as many partners as you previously had for example, you might reach polysaturation a lot faster just depending on the time you have or the needs you have uh you know sometimes people just aren’t a good fit you know like Sophie was talking about you can think in that little bright shiny happy uh honeymoon phase that this person is perfect and they’re wonderful and, you know, you wanna be with them forever and then you know, some of that shininess kinda wears off and you go “oh my god I have nothing in common with this person I just wanted to bone them”

Sophie: yeah “what was I thinking?”

Mara: Uh, you know-

Sophie: Or not even that you wanted to bone them this could happen to ace people too you know.

Mara: That’s true, that’s true, “I just wanted to cuddle them or-”

Sophie: Well and sometimes people don’t always give us the best representation of, you know, what they’re actually like.

Mara: That’s true, that’s true, but, you know, none of these scenarios imply like a personal or moral failing on anyone’s part, you know, not all relationships end because you aren’t being a good partner, to me sometimes it’s just “hey I don’t think that we can make this work anymore” um and it’s really important I think to look at the things you learned in a relationship and maybe skills you gained uh even if it ended poorly. You know, I’m able to look on some of my past relationships and say “oh, alright, this is maybe something I did poorly here that maybe caused this relationship to end” or “here’s something that we did really great together that I really want to carry over to my other relationships” just because a relationship ends doesn’t mean that everything you learned and gained in that relationship has to be left in the past, it’s part of being a dynamic person! You can take some things and leave other things. You’re not- i think we want to think of ourselves as linear folks but I don’t think that’s necessarily the case.

Sophie: Yeah absolutely, um...you know, I want to emphasize, you put it very well there but I want to say it in a sentence, uh it’s important to look at what you gained and learned from a relationship, even if it ended poorly. And you know I can’t remember I might have said it in the previous episode, either that or I was just talking about it to some friends, but whenever I undergo a bad experience uh you know I always try to come out of it with something, not because I’m an incredibly mature person. Quite the contrary: because I’m kind of a petty person and I absolutely refuse to suffer for no good reason. So if I’m suffering I will find something to get out of it, something to learn, something because I can’t stand the idea that I hurt for no reason whatsoever. Uh, and so, it’s important to look at what you’ve gained, even though it ended poorly and I think that’s really important to emphasize. You know uh….the hurt of a relationship ending can be really toxic and I know at least for me, when our nesting partner left us, it was a really bad situation. I mean they were living with us and we had given them a ring as a commitment symbol and everything and they literally threw it out. You know and….um...left and….they owe me a bunch of money and I honestly don’t care about that because it’s worth it to never see them again uh because that’s how poorly it ended. Um...they really uh… I mean we almost lost our apartment because of some shit they pulled and uh then on top of it they just walked out the door. Um...and...that, that hurts, a lot um..and… I think at least for me this episode is going to be a little bit difficult. But even from that situation I try to remember the things that I learned, even just things I learned from the breakup and stuff I go “well, I won’t do that again” you know uh...and from that relationship frankly most of what I got wasn’t positive things that I learned it was “well I won’t do this again I won’t do that again” you know and it’s like you know okay, you’ve still learned something, you’re still coming out with a net gain, and you can still move forward and that’s what’s important.

Mara: Yeah it was a lot of really hard lessons I think. And I think the whole thing for me um I think the really big lesson that I learned from that is that there’s always like multiple sides to every story so…

Sophie: Yeah they would not tell the same story that I told about it

Mara: Right and I might not tell the same story that Sophie just told you know we all had different experiences and you know our experiences our mental illnesses everything about our lives kind of color our perspective and that was something that I had to keep in mind you know throughout that whole process because I was feeling what I felt I was thinking of my side of the story and I was hearing how sophie felt and Sophie’s side of the story and then through some other friends I was getting kind of glimpses of our nesting partner’s side of the story and these were all...some parts aligned but some parts of them were very incongruous I think and a lot of what happened was due to communication breakdowns which kinda segues us nicely into our next point here: um breakups can get really ugly really quick. A lot of times that happens largely due to unexpressed or poorly expressed feelings. I feel like a subheading of this show could be “comuuuuuuuuuunicate” you know we talk in every single one of our episodes about how important communication is and even in a breakup when you are you know cutting things off with a person communication is still important.

Sophie: Yeah absolutely, I um you know even if they only thing you want to communicate to this person is “I never want to see your fucking face again” it’s important to convey that successfully and with as little malice as possible. So perhaps saying: “I never want to see your fucking face again” isn’t the best way to go about doing that. Um...you know, saying like “listen, you really hurt me” or “we really hurt each other” or whatever and “i would really prefer to not see you again, uhI want this to be it and it needs to be done.”

Mara: or I think this would be healthiest for both of us

Sophie: yeah if we didn’t see each other anymore or if we moved on because you know this breakup has just been horrible...i mean something like that...it’s a lot easier for both people to go away uh and be productive instead of just coming at each other and being combative and well like “well fuck you” “no fuck you” “well no fuck you” we’re definitely earning that explicit tag today folks.

Mara: yeah i uh and you know little caveat, little asterisk here if you are leaving an abusive situation or a situation you feel is abusive, this does not apply

Sophie: yeah just go, fucking run.

Mara: you do not have to tell your abuser why you felt that you needed to end the relationship your safety is more important than your abuser’s emotional state.

Sophie: yeah you owe them exactly dick

Mara: So if you are in a bad relationship if you’re in a bad spot and you’re listening to this episode and you’re like “oh well I have to tell this person you know...why i’m leaving them” this does not apply to you please make sure you are safe make sure you get out of there with as little emotional or otherwise harm to yourself.

Sophie: yeah absolutely. But if you’re not in an abusive situation uh it can help to recognize that you know your ex has feelings too. And as we said, unless you’re escaping abuse, it is usually wise to say why the relationship has to end to allow the other person to gain closure. You know, it’s easy to ruminate on a breakup and go “I don’t understand how this happened” and stuff like that. And at the very least if people have a reason and say “listen, it’s because I’m moving away and I can’t do long distance with people because I have trauma there” or something like that or “listen it was great but it’s not working out” or “listen I need to work on me right now and I can’t be with anybody” or “listen we just don’t have as much in common as I thought we did and we had a lot of fun but it’s just not really working for me right now.” Stuff like that..it can make everything a lot easier. Communicate what you’re feeling and then also allow them to communicate what they’re feeling. And if you’re being broken up with it’s okay to communicate feelings of helplessness or loss as long as you recognize that from the moment one person decides a relationship needs to end and isn’t working, it is over and you really shouldn’t try to cling to and ending relationship after one person decides they need to exit because it could become traumatic for everyone really quickly. Sink your time into communicating with friends and other partners and seek your support there. Don’t try to convince your, you know, your partner, your now ex-partner, uh, that the relationship is fine and that they shouldn’t leave, uh, unless they come to you and say like ‘I think that this isn’t working and I’m thinking about leaving’ or something like that, but if they come to you with this conclusion already made, for the most part, even if they totally are assuming how you’re feeling and stuff like that, if they’re, if they’re making a lot of assumptions about how you feel and stuff like that it’s okay to clarify for that, but if they are absolutely deadset that this needs to end, there is nothing you can do. And generally speaking, that probably means that there’s other things that they’re not telling you about, and that hurts a lot, they might not even recognize them themselves, but, you know, at that point, it isn’t healthy anymore and it does need to end and that’s really hard to hear but that’s just how it is. Another thing to remember, you know, when you are going through a breakup, it’s best to rope in as few people as possible that aren’t directly involved. Uh, don’t go trying to turn people’s friends and partners against them just because you had a falling out with them. Unless they’re abusive, you really should kinda wash your hands of it. And even if they are abusive, you should probably come at it from the perspective of, you know, ‘listen, there’s something I think y’all should know about, cuz it’s really awful behavior and I would wanna know about it,’ and not, ‘my ex was abusive and I will destroy them and leave them feeling empty and alone for what they did to me,’ because becoming toxic yourself will not help heal you.

Mara: absolutely. Um, and I think this is something that a lot of people can get wrong sometimes because, you know, they’re looking to communicate their feelings to other friends and partners kinda like you talked about um, before, where you know, it’s good to communicate your feelings to other people, um, that can kinda turn into vindictive and like, trying to convince those people that you’re communicating with that they’re horrible, they’re terrible, and they did this to me, and you shouldn’t hang out with them or spend time with them anymore, um, it’s really important to frame it as ‘I’m feeling hurt by their actions when they did this,’ and not, don’t make like a call to action from your friends. Don’t try and be persuasive about what you’re feeling, um, just communicate, you know, ‘here is what I’m feeling, this is what’s going on.’

Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. I think that that’s all really good advice. Um, you know, when you are exiting a relationship, it’s worth taking time to consider how you’re doing that, uh, cuz it matters how you do it here. Uh, you know, if you make a really ugly exit and things are really bad, you’re gonna feel bad longer. And if you exit with some poise, and with, you know, uh, some respect for other people, and whatnot, it’s gonna make your healing process easier, at least in my experience. So, hey Mara, wanna make some money?

Mara: let’s do it!

Sophie: let’s go!

(The Beatles Can’t Buy Me Love plays)

Sophie: ugh

Mara: what’s wrong? Sophie: I’m just so sick of my personal items being so bare

Mara: what do you mean?

Sophie: well I keep seeing all these people with funky decorations on their water bottles and laptops

Mara: well why don’t you just visit Funky Fool Design?

Sophie: what’s that?

Mara: It’s an Etsy shop that sells crazy rad stickers for $5 or less!

Sophie: really? What a deal! Where can I buy those?

Mara: The link is-

Sophie: in the description.

Mara: (laughs)

Sophie: So, uh, it’s an Etsy shop, it’s called Funky Fool Design and they gave us a real cheesy script to read, basically they have a lot cool stickers and stuff like that, all custom hand drawn, at least is my understanding of it from looking at it, and I’m pretty sure um, you know, uh, the artist is just starting out on Etsy so there’s not a ton of ton of stuff, but I’m sure that you can get commissions done and stuff like that, so you can absolutely, uh, just make your, your kind of gear just full of the swaggiest swag, so uh, I think that’s something the kids are still saying right?

Mara: Maybe? I don’t know.

Sophie: Maybe? Yeah, I don’t know

Mara: (laughs)

Sophie: Uh, but uh, yeah! Please,  ih, the uh, please consider going and visiting them, because they sponsored our show! And it would mean a lot if uh, we could up the traffic on there, and for what it’s worth, I think that you know, I have lots of stickers and stuff on my laptop and water bottle and stuff like that, and there’s, there’s an aspect I guess when I see someone with the same bumper sticker on their laptop I guess of ‘oh cool!,’ there’s always like this little bit of ‘aww,’ it feels like mine’s not quite as special now, so you can get some, more or less, bespoke stickers made, uh,  which, I mean, if you’re not into bespoke stickers, what kind of millennial are you? (Mara laughs) I mean, I genuinely don’t understand. I think it’s a really really great shop and I absolutely endorse it and I think you should check it out and get yourself some cool cool stickers made. Uh, friendly reminder, we are offering real live advertising slots on the show so if you have a podcast or book or webcomic or an online shop that you would like to have our listener base hear about, we are running a special offer through February 28th, you can get an ad on the show for just $5 and have your business immortalized. If you contact me before the end of January, you’ll receive a special “buy one, get one” offer where you’ll pay $5 and get a spot on two episodes of the show. So please, don’t wait!

Mara: Go get that bogo!

Sophie: Yeah, go get that bogo! I think this is before, uh, uh January, I think this will be airing before that day, I think. And if it’s not, then…

Mara: oops

Sophie: oops, yeah. I, I’m not real good at this, you know, we backlog these a little bit and I’m not real good at keeping track of exactly when they’re gonna drop, so, but, uh you know, go get that deal. Uh, and if you ask me really nicely then I might extend the bogo deal for ya. So, cuz I’m pretty easygoing, uh, but uh, as we, as we continue to grow and get more popular, our rates will probably go up? Uh, for advertising, so now is a perfect time to get in on the ground floor because you know, people are probably still gonna be going back and listening to these early episodes, so it’s really worth getting in there. So, now that we’re out of the money zone, uh, what are some ways that you know, po-polyamory, uh, we’ve been talking about breakups in general, how does polyamory interact with breakups? You know, what are some ways that um, polyamory can, we’ll start with making it more difficult, I guess, and we’ll end on a high note.

Mara: yeah. Uh, so sometimes in a polyamorous breakup, you can lose a network of friends, metamours, even partners, sometimes, just depending on the severity and the fallout of the breakup, you can really uh, I guess, kinda feel like you’re cut off from this whole network of people. And that’s, that’s a really hard feeling, you know, you’re losing people that, you know more than just the one person you’re losing a couple people and that’s a lot of loss to deal with and that can be really, really difficult

Sophie: yeah, certainly one would hope that if you make friends with uh people, you know metamours and stuff like that and friends of your partner that you’d be able to stay friends with them after the breakup, but you know, sometimes if a breakup is real ugly it just doesn’t end up working out that way

Mara: yeah, the world is an imperfect place, screws fall out all the time

Sophie: (laughs) yeah, thank you, Bender

Mara: (laughs)

Sophie: Um, (laughs) would’ve expected more from a letterman

Mara: (laughs)

Sophie: uh, that’s a Breakfast Club joke for all you nerds out there. But anyways, um, also, you know, sometimes people isolate themselves after a breakup, which can hurt themselves and their other relationships, uh, so if you got other relationships and you’re isolating yourself, that’s bad. Even if you don’t have other relationships you shouldn’t, you know, you shouldn’t do that, but especially if you do, that’s real bad, don’t do it. Um, you know, it’s, when, when you’re in need like that, you need more support and connection, not less, and I think people often get that wrong.

Mara: absolutely. Well, and I think you know part of the reason why that happens is that you have this fear of everyone else leaving you too. ‘Oh this person left me so now everyone else is going to leave me.’ It’s not this entirely rational feeling, but you go, ‘Oh, I’m going to make this easier for other people, I’m gonna withdraw and I’m gonna end the relationship before they can end the relationship and hurt me,’ uh, which is bad. Don’t do that! Don’t do that, please! Talk to your partners, like, don’t, (stammers) they’re not going to leave you, I promise, I can’t promise that

Sophie: probably, they’re probably not going to leave you

Mara: I’m not your partners, um, unless you have reason to believe that a partner is actually going to leave you, that’s just anxiety. And I say ‘that’s just anxiety’ as if anxiety isn’t a big horrible deal, it is, as somebody who, who experiences a lot of anxiety. Uh, you know, communicate that anxiety to your partners. Uh, you know, it’s more likely than not, you know, they’ll reach out to you, they’ll make sure that you’re not feeling, uh, like they’re going to leave you, cuz that’s the last thing they wanna do, oftentimes.

Sophie: yeah, absolutely.

Mara: yeah, you know, I just, Sophie, sometimes breakups can just make you feel like you’ve got to-

Mara and Sophie: (bang twice on table) (singing) get away

Sophie: (singing) I’ve got to- Welcome to Poly Folly, a podcast within a podcast where we talk about the crucial mistakes that people commonly make that are the downfall of their polyamorous relationships.

(Tainted Love by Soft Cell plays)

Mara: So, like we said before, sometimes people can isolate themselves after a breakup, which, you know, will hurt themselves and their other relationships, don’t do that! You know, reach out to other people, we are social creatures, we need other people, we need relationships, we need networks to survive. Humans would not have made it out of the ocean, uh, or wherever we evolved from (laughs), I don’t know this stuff! Uh-

Sophie: (overlapping) tropical swamps

Mara: Tropical swamps!

Sophie: Yeah, tro-

Mara: Humans would not have made it out of the tropical swamps without other people, we depend on each other, we rely on each other, and especially in situations like this, lean on people (singing) Lean on me, when you’re not strong (speaking) and I’m really sick so my voice sounds terrible right now, I apologize for that

Sophie: (singing) we all need somebody to lean on

Mara: yeah, no, just don’t isolate yourself, please! Don’t shut yourself away in your room, talk! Talktalktalktalktalktalktalk, talk to people

Sophie: don’t, yeah, don’t Rapunzel it, cuz your hair will just grow really long and you’ll have a really hard time starting relationships, cuz your hair is so long

Mara: yeah, you might suffocate under all that hair! Just don’t do it!

Sophie: you or your… gecko?

Mara: chameleon

Sophie: chameleon. Um so (laughs) that’s where I’m at today, Tangled references!

Mara: (laughs)

Sophie: um, so in addition, uh, I’ve mentioned this like at least a few times before, but don’t try to get people to take sides in your breakup! Don’t do it! That’s a huge mistake that people always make! Uh, don’t do it. Please

Mara: and you know, not even intentionally! You know, we talked about it, it can be an accident!

Sophie: yeah, well you feel like you’ve been wronged and you want people to care, but you need to be mature about it and not handle it that way

Mara: this is not a persuasive speech in your Comm 101 class, do not make a call to action when you ‘re expressing your feelings to people.

Sophie: can you tell what class Mara took last semester?

Mara: (laughs) Um, so, I don’t know, we talked about all the crappy stuff involved in breakups, what’s something that, you know, I don’t know how anything could possibly make a breakup better, but like, how could polyamory maybe make a breakup better?

Sophie: well I think, you know, when we talk about, it’s not gonna make it better, but it might soften the blow. Uh, you know, oftentimes, when you have other people to lean on, both friends and partners, it can make it easier, so a lot of times people who are polyamorous have a wider network than monogamous people do, and I think that helps, I really really do, you know, f-for what it’s worth, uh, I think it really helps. Uh, and then, you know, from a relationship anarchist perspective, if you are a relationship anarchist, which certainly not everybody is, but relationships are just allowed to ebb and flow, so, it’s to be expected that sometimes people kinda make exits from your life and then sometimes they come back in and sometimes they don’t, and that’s all very fine. Um, so that kind of perspective can prepare you for a breakup in a way that a lot of others don’t, because I think a lot of times, when people who aren’t relationship anarchists are in relationships and are starting relationships, they’re like ‘oh, this is wonderful and it’s never gonna end, ever ever ever,’ and you know, when relationship anarchists a lot of times start a relationship, this perspective of ‘this is amazing, but it might not always be here, and I have to be okay with that even though it’s really hard,’ and it’s a very, at least in my perspective, it’s a very mature opinion, er, pardon me, not opinion, um, it’s a very mature perspective, and, you know, I dunno, I, I think that that can make it a lot easier

Mara: yeah, well, i-it-it’s just respecting people’s autonomy I feel like, you know, you’re respecting that people have the right to enter or exit a relationship as they see fit, you know, you don’t own that person, you don’t own that relationship, you’re letting that relationship happen and be what it is and be what it will be, um, and you can’t, you can’t for a relationship to stay together or look in a certain way,like,  you just, you need to let people do what they’re doing

Sophie: yeah, absolutely. Are there any other ways that polyamory can make you know, relationship breakups smoother?

Mara: well, hopefully you’ve been taking our advice and

Sophie and Mara: commuuuuuuunicating

Mara: with your partners, um, and having those above average communication skills can make things go smoother, you know? Like we talked about earlier, communication as a whole makes relationships better, but it can also make breakups a little bit easier on everyone, you know, if you’re saying ‘this relationship is ending because of x, y, z reasons but it’s not because you did a, b, c or didn’t do, you know, d, e, f, uh, it’s just, it’s just, you know, this is, this is why it has to be what it is and I’m not angry at you, I’m not upset at you, this is just-’ or maybe you are angry and upset, hopefully you’ve talked to each other about it before you’re getting to a breakup, you know, hopefully you’ve communicated and you’ve come to the conclusion that no amount of communication is going to fix this, you’ve still gotta communicate that, you still gotta communicate that things are ending, but, ideally, you’ll have a little bit more closure and you’ll have a little bit more of a smooth end to your relationship. Your mileage may vary, though.

Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, few points of order, um, we have a twitter, facebook, and patreon, all of which, and our email, are on your cover art, uh, and it would be really cool to hear from you on any of those. Uh, and please consider supporting us on patreon, we have some really cool rewards set up, and it all just starts for $1 a month. For $1 a month you get a shoutout on the show, for $5 a month you get access to a bonus episode that we uploaded that’s all about Mara and their history in polyamory

Mara: cuz you definitely wanted to hear more about me

Sophie: yeah, it’s a really cool deep dive (Mara laughs) uh, and then for $10 a month you get all these episodes, you get everything else, but you also get these episodes a week before anyone else. So you can be the person at the water cooler that knows what happened before anyone else, because you work in an office building where everyone listens to our podcasts

Mara: (laughs) well, and I just wanted to say real quick, uh, you know, we have some very exciting guests lined up for our show and I’m not gonna give that away just yet, we’ll let that be a surprise

Sophie: I’m, I’m actually gonna give it away, uh, because I want people to know about it. Uh, so I am a huge fan of this one polyamorous webcomic that, probably you can already guess who I”m talking about when I say polyamorous webcomic, but basically I’ve been a huge fan of them for years, and their art is impeccable and they’re just amazing, they have a huge, huge, huge library of comics that cover a wide variety of topics within polyamory, and I reached out to them and asked ‘hey, you know, do you wanna be on my podcast?’ And they were like, ‘yeah! Totally!’ And so, we’re gonna have the author of Kimchi Cuddles on this podcast, which is insane! That is so cool! The author of Kimchi Cuddles is going to talk to me, hopefully about co-parenting stuff, that’s kinda what I would like the episode to be about, but if you have any questions about like polyamorous parenting or if you have any questions about anything really that you want the author of Kimchi Cuddles to answer while on the show, send them into us and we’ll make sure to make that happen for you. I am so excited about this, I think it’s going to be episode 10, um, from the sounds of it. Uh, unless, it might end up being later, uh, just because the author, you know, they are very busy, uh, I keep saying the author because I don’t know how to pronounce their name, but um, I’m sure I will learn. (laughs) But so basically, expect that some time around there, and if you follow us on twitter, I will post more information as I have more information, uh, but yeah, this is pretty much the best thing that could happen to us besides having one of the McElroys on, or something like that.

Mara: (chuckles) right? Well, and what I was gonna say, though, is because, because we’re doing these interviews for our bonus episodes, you can, if you support us for $5 a month, you could learn some cool things about

Sophie: (interrupting) Well the Kimchi Cuddles episode isn’t gonna be a bonus episode

Mara: no, but we can do a bonus episode

Sophie: oh, I suppose

Mara: um

Sophie: well we can do a bonus episode where we interview them, but uh, we haven’t talked to them about that yet so

Mara: yeah, but you know, if you support us for $5 a month, you might

Sophie: that’s only $2.50 an episode, folks, I think that that’s pretty good for this content

Mara: I, uh, you know, if you don’t want to hear all about me, you could hear all about some of the cool guest hosts, or guest, guest stars that we have at some point, so uh

Sophie: yeah, absolutely, and you know, we’re gonna be adding more content to that, kinda, you know, kinda as we go, um, you know, it’s not necessarily going to be an every month uploading content thing to that, cuz that would be ridiculous when you think of people having bonus episodes, that’s, that’s just a lot, you know, 12 over a year, but every few months you’ll get a really cool deep dive and I think that that’s really cool. I wanna give a shout out to our patrons real quick, Marissa Alexa McCool and Ari Stillman, as well as Jade are our $5 a month patrons, so they’re the only ones right now that have access to that bonus episode, and then also our $1 a month patrons, Vlad and Miles Kataro (sp?), thank you so much, all of you, for supporting us, we so appreciate, uh, everyone’s continued support, I know this is a small channel, you know, but we’re getting bigger every day, and uh, even a dollar a month from a few of you would help us make this even better and help us offset some of the cost of our equipment, you know, we really want this to be the absolute best that it can be. Also, if you enjoy the podcast, please, this week, share it with at least one other friend or partner, do that for me as a personal favor, share it with one person this week. It would mean the world to us, we don’t have the money to pay for advertising so if this is going to take of, which it has been, by the way, it’ll pretty much be because of you, our wonderful fans, um, it feels absolutely amazing to know that you know, you all care and we get shoutouts on twitter from some people and we get emails from other people and you know, I, I have people that I know, even that come up to me and say like, hey, this, you know, I have people from high school that have sent me messages and stuff like that, like ‘hey, I found your podcast and this episode really helped me’ or whatever, you know, thank you so much for all of you that have reached out and whatnot, it really helps us, it’s invigorating and it makes us want to do more and do do better, and, um, contrary to the opening script, we’re not going to be stopping anytime soon

Mara: (laughs)

Sophie: um, so, yeah, just, thank you so much for your continued support, you all mean the world to us, uh, and remember

Mara and Sophie: Don’t date your best friend’s dad, and don’t date your dad’s best friend!

Sophie: see you next time, folks

(Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy by Queen plays)

This show is part of the Trans Podcaster Visibility Initiative

#polyamradio #polyam radio #queer #trans #podcast #polyamory #breakup #breakups

[polyamradiotranscripts]

Ep. 7 Long Distance Relationships

polyAM Radio Episode Seven-Long Distance Relationships

[Begin Transcript]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody and welcome to polyam radio the best show on the internet about polyamory that weird relationship thing you do with lots of other people

["Crazy little thing called love" by Queen plays]

[Sophie]: hello everybody and welcome to polyam radio my name is Sophie Last-name-redacted

[Credence]: and I'm Credence You-humans-could-not-pronounce-it

[Sophie]: I use she her pronouns and Credence uses they them and he him, this episode is going to be about long distance relationships and specifically about long distance plyamory but first you may or may not have noticed I have a new guest host so Credence tell everybody a little bit about yourself

[Credence]: well hi, thanks for having me Sophie um my name is Credence umm I'm twenty four years old I studied writing and gender in college umm I don't have that many interesting things to say about myself

[Sophie]: that's fair, how long have you been doing polyamory

[Credence]: I've been into polyamory since ooh, it's been about five years for me I've been in polyamory about five years

[Sophie]: umm are you comfortable talking about how you got into it or is that a bad memory

[Credence]: oh it's not a bad memory at all umm I actually am still with my partner who introduced me to polyamory she at the time was dating another person and when we got together she was like this is who I am this is what I do and I wanna give you as much information about it as possible but um it was a really egalitarian approach to relationships and I was really intereted in that because she was a wonderful person and I really liked her other partner and it was just kind of a soft introdution and umm it took me a while to start dating other people but that that's it's own story cuz I'm kind of a playbook of what not to do sometimes with polyamory [laughs] uh but right now I'm in , uh, I have three wonderful girlfriends who are amazing, oh god I want you to edit so much of this out it's so bad

[Sophie]: no it's wonderful

[Credence]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: I'm lucky enough to be one of those wonderful girlfriends

[Credence]: yes yes you are

[Sophie]: and then we share another one  uhh of those wonderful girlfriends and the other one I haven't quite sunk my claws into yet

[Credence]: yeah you once you meet uhh once you meet her I'm sure that, it'll be uhh a ripple effect until you two start dating

[Sophie]: yeah probably that's generally how my life works

[Credence]: gotta collect em all

[Sophie]: yeah yeah

[Credence]: catch em all gotta catch em all

[Sophie]: it's actually funny you mention that because I'm playing pokemon ultra moon right now and I'm very pokemon saturated ya know we talked about polysaturation in a previous episode and feeling like you have too many partner uhh and I actually wish that I had bought the game earlier instead of playing it earlier cuz this would have been a really good intro for the polysaturation episode but I've just got so many pokemon in there right now that I can't train any of them up to the level that I kind of want to and I'm still very early in the game so I'm just catching new pokemon all the time so it's just, I have this wonderful paralell I was like this is just like polysaturation I'm just so pokemon saturated and then I turned off the game and stopped playing which isn't really a solution for your polysaturation

[Credence]: no no it's not

[Sophie]: yeah

[Credence]: it's not

[Sophie]: yeah but I can put my little electronic creatures on a shelf until I'm ready to deal with them again

[Credence]: unless they're unless they're what are those things called the tomoi

[Sophie]: tomigotchis

[Credence]: they'll just run away

[Sophie]: will they really, I never had one

[Credence]: they're weird, I have a lot of abandonment issues thanks to tomigotchi

[Sophie]: yeah I uh maybe, that could be a good sponsor for the show maybe we could reach out to them

[Credence]: do they still exist

[Sophie]: uhh I'm sure in some form ya know

[Credence]: well uhh unfortunately you have already made an episode about polysaturation and we shouldn't over saturate your listeners with the conversation

[Sophie]: that's fair

[Credence]: so today we're going to be talking about as you said long distance relationships and specifically how polyamory works in conjuntion with long distance relationships so what constitutes a long distance like how far is far Sophie

[Sophie]: uhh well umm boy let me get out a ruler here hold on

[Credence]: oh yeah

[Sophie]: yeah well I with I had a good goof for this cuz I was planning on being the one that asked that question and then forcing you to make a good goof about it but I didn't have anything prepared but basically

[Credence]: oh well here I don't have anything but I can I can vamp

[Sophie]: oh okay

[Credence]: uh wha- [unintelligable] you give it a shot

[Sophie]: I'll get it

[Credence]: you try me

[Sophie]: so Credence what constitutes a long distance relationship ya know how far is far away

[Credence]: well uhh for me and my abandonment issues far away is pretty much over three feet

[Sophie]: [laughs] okay that's actually very good

[Credence]: so uhh no okay uhh that that was a goof umm in reality the distance isn't really so much like it ya know the distance isn't the part where it gets complicated or like there isn't like you must be there isn't a you must be this far away to consider yourself in a long distance relationship there is no like measure or maker for that but it's basically it it's long distance constitutes anything that makes seeing each other difficult

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely

[Credence]: or like a special occasion not something you can do very often now that doesn't mean that ya know you have to live super far away for that to be constituted uhh for it to be considered a long distance relationship but it also means that if you live in the same town and you just choose to not see each other that much that's not a long distance relationship it's because the distance creates an obstacle that has to be worked around

[Sophie]: right absolutely well and I think that ya know re- and in realtiy ya know what ya know when we talk about this a lot of it depends on what kind of transportation you have access to or whatever because ya know lets talk about a partner that maybe lives like an hour away well if you're in an area that's like you have a car or there's lots of high speed trains you might not consider that long distance but if it's a situation where you don't have your own transportation and there's not really a public way of getting there and to get down there you have to like take the bus and it goes around this long winding three hour route all of the sudden that becomes enough of an ordeal that you might consider that long distance uhh it's really kind of in the eye of the beholder basically as you said I think ya know whenever there's a barrier to the amount of time you can spend together that's dictated by the distance between you and your partner that's kind of when we start to call it a long distance relationship and uh in addition what that ends up meaning a lot of times is that most of the communication in the relationship and interaction happens through a medium such as the internet or letter writing uhh obviously internet more commonly

[Credence]: there's also these amazing things called phones

[Sophie]: yeah or over the phone

[Credence]: I know that my social anxiety would lead you to believe that they don't exist

[Sophie]: [laughs] I guess I'm so umm even texting to me is the internet even though it, it's technically not it's just instant messaging is so like internet fixed to me but absolutely yeah technically that's not the internet or or phone calls too

[Credence]: yeah I was, I was making a joke about talking on the phone because us mellenials are incapable of doing that

[Sophie]: yeah

[Credence]: but honestly though, social anxiety

[Sophie]: yeah umm but anyways ya know most of your interaction is gonna occur through one of those type of mediums and not ya know in person and that's by neccecity and not by choice it's not that ya know seeing your partner all that often isn't important to you or  that umm ya know you're choosing not to see them all that often ya know I also wanna mention part of the reason we're, ya know, it's like why are we  talking about long distance relationships uhh aside from the fact that they have their own unique situations and problems that are often ya know created [unintelligable] of existing they often have their legitimacy challenged by the rest of socitey and many people feel that it's impossible to have a healthy productive meaningful long distance relationship now they're wrong

[Credence]: yes, they're dead wrong

[Sophie]: ya know you can be wrong plenty of people are wrong about everthing there's people that ya know don't like pickles and there's people that uh do like ranch and there's people that

[Credence]: oh come on

[Sophie]: [laughs]

[Credence]: that was low

[Sophie]: yeah that was low I'm sorry hunny, Umm but umm ya know we just wanna that that is something that some people think, they are wrong and if you think that, that just means that you really need to listen to the rest of this episode

[Credence]: hell yeah we'll convince you

[Sophie]: so, oh--go first sorry

[Credence]: and along with long distance relationship often having their ligitimacy challenged you have the added component of being polyam long distance relationship and like the legitimacy of that being challanged as well as very unique challeneges to communication and umm partner quality time that that are added components to specifically being in a long distance polyamory

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely yeah I think that that's a good point uh absolutely so when we're talking about long distance relationships uhh what goes into ya know a lot of people I think have never had a long distance relationship or are maybe in a long distance relationship for the first time so ya know how what goes into starting a long distance relationship how do they typically start cuz it doesn't exactly follow our social script ya know

[Credence]: yeah it's uh it's always a buckwild ride let me tell ya umm I have had several long distance relationships and uhh it's it's about as awkward for me asking somebody out in person as it is for me to ask somebody out umm online even if it wasn't for a specific date just even just being like hey I like you check yes or no if you like me

[Sophie]: yea there's uh I think that ya know a lot of times on this show we talk about  having a lack of a social script and having to ya know make your own uhh based off of that and [laughs] this is definately something long distance relationships in general aside from long distance polyamory this is something where you definately have to uhh kind of make your own umm how do you want to say uhh kind of script for because ya know typically we associate relationships and especially early relationships with dating and going on dates so when you're not able to just go on a date with someone or whatever that's a significant barier to a lot of times even just feeling like your relationship is real and legitimate and it of course is but sometimes that can lead us to feeling like they're not legitimate

[Credence]: yeah yeah in my experience uhh the kind of like script that often comes out of like like looking back at the progression of how I went from like talking to this online friend to dating them is usually like ya know pretty standard as far as like what you would expect in an in person encounter of like flirtatious conversation getting to know someone uhh but  then  as you like as you talk more you get to know this person more uhh like the conversation tends to shift more towards like more of the flirtation

[Sophie]: no I think that's really good ya know one of the things you said early on and I don't know if you even realize you said it but I thought it was very good talking to a friend and ending up dating them and whatnot uhh that's not always how it happens in person it would be ideal and everything but a lot of times pepole will, ya know they don't wanna date their friends or whatever so they'll just go out and try to find someone that they're physically attracted to or whatever

[Credence]: right

[Sophie]: and ask them out, and online interactions I don't know if that's ever happened to anyone that is that is so I guess different that what I always hear about basically you almost always end up dating a friend, ya know someone you like and usually a close friend uhh so in my opinion I guess I think that's something that long distance relationships do better uhh than ya know like uhh ya know your traditional relationships

[Credence]: yeah yeah I mean like in I mean you can't tell me though you haven't like thirst followed someone on twitter or something right

[Sophie]: I only have a my only twitter is the polyamradio twitter so I've never actually done that

[Credence]: you know what I mean though right

[Sophie]: yeah for sure

[Credence]: like physical attraction can totally be a component within long distance even if you meet somebody online like I mean not everybody catphishing us I don't know I have trust issues so now I"m gonna be thinkin about that

[Sophie]: [Credence]: [laugh]

[Credence]: but like ya know like there can totally be like a physical attraction component if like you you're following somebodies blog and its like just like you casually like like their content and then go oh wow their really cute

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely but even then if you're gonna start dating them normally you become friends with them first at least in my experience

[Credence]: yeah it's definately like you strike up a conversation not like hey you're hot like don't do that like you aren't going to get anywhere with somebody if that's how you're treating them like you can have the physical attraction component but that's not the motivating factor in getting in getting to know somebody and interacting with them in long distance like the motivating factor is mostly getting to know them and like talking about them and yourself umm at least from my experience ya know I know plenty of people who kind of do online dating in a sexual way and like that's super cool but for me I'm mostly looking for partnerships built off of like solid friendships

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely umm so what goes into we talked about starting a long distance relationship ya know what goes into-

[Credence]: yeah the start is just start talking to somebody, honestly just like get to know them like it it sounds so like basic and kind of silly but just like just start talking and see where these conversations lead and like I said it's always going to come back to flirting if you guys have chemistry cuz like it just kinda happens naturally

[Sophie]: and sometimes even if you don't have chemistry and then it's real bad

[Credence]: yeah yeah that's true [laughs] then you make really bad puns and try to win women over with limeriks like me

[Sophie]: yikes that's beautiful I umm

[Credence]: it worked on you

[Sophie]: it did yeah I'm still expecting a sonnet from you at some point

[Credence]: oh that's right I owe you sonnet

[Sophie]: I uhh so ya know we talked about uhh starting a long distance relationship, what goes into maintaining a long distance relationship ya know say that you  ya know you someone was listening to this espisode and paused it a few seconds ago and they're like a month into it and they're like this is going great but I have no idea how to maintain this now uhh what's some of the basic maintinence that these relationships require

[Credence]: the biggest thing is talking to each other and I know that's scary sometimes cause communication can be scary in generall but yeah you gotta talk to each other that's kind of the big basic thing

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I think ya know in long distance relationship ya know we're gonna talk later about some of the things that can go wrong but one of the things we're gonna bring up is ghosting which is kinda disappearing on someone

[Credence]: mhmm

[Sophie]: either deliberatley or accidentally ya know uhh if you get really busy and you realize oh shit I haven't talked to this person in a week, or longer, ya know that's not ideal

[Credence]: that's that's that is less than ideal

[Sophie]: yeah

[Credence]: that is beyond less than ideal

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely

[Credence]: you gotta keep the line of communication open even if it's just being like hey been busy we need to catch up soon and then planning time to do that

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely and I was also saying ya know finding things to do together, ya know I've never done this although I've been meaning too and I tried to do it once uhh very slyly and was kind of shot down but I was talking to one of my partners and they were they were saying ohh I'm gonna watch a movie but I don't know what movie to watch and I had heard of people kind of watching movies together over long distance and like texting each other throughout and I thought it was really cute and one of my partner was like I'm looking for a movie to watch  and I was like oh well I'm ya know do you have the birdcage and they were like yeah and I was like I'm gonna watch the birdgage so if you want we would watch it together adn they were like nah I'm not really in the mood for that and I was like awwww and umm ya know

[Credence]: no that's like actually a really great example of something you can do and umm ya know whether you like time it up so that like lets say you got them on the phone and you both hit play at the same time and youy can talk to each other through the movie I only recomend doing that with a movie you've already seen otherwise it's obnoxious, I've done that before, there's also a website called rabbit umm is r a b b dot i t, umm and it lets you set up like group chats umm and or even just like one on one chats and you can play movies in the umm online application like together like one person controls it so it starts at the same time for both of you and you get a chat window where you can type where you can uhh like type uhh messages and stuff yeah where you can message each other or um you can I think you can actually do uhh like a skype kinda call with it too but uhh I haven't tried that componenet but there's lots of websites like that that exist out there that are designed for these kinds of things like umm ya know there's ways that you can play games together online

[Sophie]: I was about to mention gaming yeah if you're a gamer, like I"m not as much a gamer I wouldn't know how to set this stuff up but something that I would really like to do sometime I think would be a lot of fun is like to play mario cart with ya know like my long distance partners or something like that like I think that that could be a lot of fun and I have no idea how to set that up I guess so tweet at me I guess if you know how to do that

[Credence]: yeah yeah if you folks have like good examples of stuff you can do with your partner in a long distance relationship like that those kind of resources are amazing and I'll probably be sending some links over to Sophie to put in to the umm cat like into the caption for this

[Sophie]: yeah I can put it in the episode descriptiong

[Credence]: yeah we'll put this I'll send Sophie some links to put in umm the episode discription and maybe even tweet umm some of em over umm at uhh polyam underscore radio on twitter

[Sophie]: yeah our our twitter and our uhh our email and everything if you are looking to contact us all our information is on your cover art if you're listening to this so uhh it should be easy to get a hold of us if you're looking to

[Credence]: yeah I mean theres theres so many fun things you can do and like also just like trying to find you're own thing not like just being like well the internet says that we can really ya know we can watch movies together I guess but I don't really like movies it's like well okay then if you don't feel like watching a movie like go on a walk while you're on the phone

[Sophie]: yeah or even if you're wanting to like read the same book as someone else and like talk about it or something uhh ya know it can be I mean there are lots of things you can do I think that the biggest thing is that you have to find a way to ensure that quality time is had and shared uhh and

[Credence]: exactly

[Sophie]: yea know I think that there are lots of different ways to do that but that's the underlying thread here

[Credence]: agreed

[Sophie]: so umm ya know when we get back we're gonna talk about uh some good things and some bad things about long distance relationships but first we gotta make some money so lets go do that

[Credence]: lets go

["can't buy me love" by the Beatles plays]

[Sophie]: alright so Credence you wanna start reading our first sponsor this week

[Credence]: for sure first off is XI strength thank you so much for supporting us set in the modern day X I strength is a manga style web comic about a small yet diverse group of spiritual warriors who defend special children from supernatural creaturtes it follows the main charater elaine fortier who cracks skulls while searching for her missing mother there's already over fourty chapters up and it's gotten a lot of traction so go ahead and check it out it's on facebook at facebook dot com slash x i strength and tumblr at xi strength dot tumblr dot com

[Sophie]: and it's x i strength like like you would write eleven in roman numerals and I did ask and they said it was just xi strength umm not eleven strength umm but I just wanna make sure

[Credence]: or zi

[Sophie]: yeah or zi strength maybe ooh whoups, umm well hopefully I haven't been saying that wrong this whole time but even if I have umm it's a great webcomic absolutely impecabley illustrated uhh and it looks to be a lot of fun and they have like we said there's over fourty chapters it's a huge backlog folks and ya know I know that one of the biggest uhh things that we often hear about especially as a new podcast and whatnot is that we don't have a very big backlock yet so  ya know if you're listening to this and uhh that's a complaint of yours that's not a complaint you'll have over there so you should go check it out

[Credence]: yeah those fourty chapters can get you a lot of good quality time with a long distance partner

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely yeah that would be another good thing and so I just wanna mention one more time ya know we are offering real life advertizing slots on this show so if you have a podcast or a book or a webcomic or an online esty shop or ya know anything else that you would like to have our listener base hear about we're running a special offer right now through february twenty eight twenty seventeen you can get an ad on the show for just five dollars and you can have your busines imortalized ya know as the show grows in popularity people are still gonna be coming back and listening to these episodes and they'll hear about your business and so that's a great way to get in on the ground floor of this cause every week we get tons more listeners and tons more downloads uhh so it it gotta strike while the irons hot a little bit and it helps us make ya knowmore great content and whatnot and then if you get to me before the end of January you'll recieve a special buy one get one offer where it's basically five dollars for a spot on two episodes of the show so don't wait as we grow the rates will undoubtably go up and now is the perfect time to get in on it

[Credence]: I should uhh do just want to mention it's february twenty eights twenty eighteen correct

[Sophie]: yes twenty eighteen correct

[Credence]: okay yep I just wanted to make sure I didn't ya know bleed into another timeline cuz like

[Sophie]: oh god I hope we did

[Credence]: uhh I don't know twenty seventeen can go die

[Sophie]: yeah I guess yeah so continuing on with our program now ya know what are some of the reasons that long distance relationships can commonly end ya know what are some common ya know fatal problems that they have

[Credence]: well uhh we kind of alluded to this before but uh lack of communication and lack of quality time are really the two biggest  the two biggest things that contribute to the end of a long distance relationship so umm when we say lack of quality time we don't just mean like of we don't get to physically see each other very often it's ya know not doing things like watching a movie together ya know or making sure you have a skype date umm yeah quality time can mean a lot of different things so umm not setting aside the time for that is a huge factor and then of course lack of communication

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I think that when you look as communication without that ya know that's the foundation of a relationship of any kind so a lot of times we sound like broken records on here when we talk about a lack of communication being a downfall but without that you really got nothing and then with quality time even if you got good communication and you got a good foundation if communication is the foundation quality time is like ya know what you build on top of that uhh ya know so ya know you can have the best foundations in the world but if you're not gonna build anything on it then you're not gonna have anything cool to play with

[Credence]: and one thing about lack of communication is that that doesn't just mean lack of communication between you and your long distance partner but also lack of communication with your other partners and their er lack of communication with them and their other partners because if you're not communicating well with uhh ya know communicating your needs for like quality time with your long distance partner to your other partners then that gets kind of can get pushed to the wayside when somebody is physically with you they're forefront in your mind so if you're not communicating I need to set aside this time for my long distance partner it can kind of just fall of to the wayside

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely and speaking of falling of to the wayside we alluded to this earlier but ghosting is a problem

[Credence]: oh yes

[Sophie]: ya know ghosting typically when we normally talk about it it's something that other people are deliberatley doing so they'll disappear on you ghosting is when you kind of disappear without a trace like a ghost and, oh go for it

[Credence]: ghosting is a lot more common with long distance relationships simply by the fact that you're communicating mostly through the internet or the phone and it can be easy to lose track of communicating in those avenues because of legitimate reasons and because of purposeful ignoreing of those of those modes of communication

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely and I do just wanna say ya know ghosting is a form of abuse, if you want to end a long distance relationship ya know nut up and end the relationship

[Credence]: yeah

[Sophie]: don't just ghost, uh abandoning people can be really triggering and if as much as you are worried about hurting them ya know uh maybe you're gonna hurt them worse by ghosting and really you're not protecting them no matter what you tell yourself, you're protecting yourself   and it's not okay to put your needs and anxieties that much farther in front of everyone elses

[Credence]: I mean obviously if you are in a situation where you are being abused

[Sophie]: yes

[Credence]: or you are feeling unsafe for any like reason with a partner even if its a long distance partner becauase yes abuse can happen in long distance relationships and it takes on different forms umm but if you are needing to exit that relationship for your saftey then obviously do it but if you are just wanting to end a relationship and don't know how that's not the responsible thing to do and it's not healthy for you or ya know your ex partner like

[Sophie]: that's a good caveat yeah obviously if your in a abuse situation and you need to make a quick getaway or a quick exit, that's different uhh

[Credence]: and you never need to justify to an abuser why you're leaving

[Sophie]: and as a matter of fact a lot of times it's better and safer if you don't

[Credence]: exactly so umm but when we talk about ghosting we are talking about in a situation where there isn't an abusive element and basically it's just you're right ghosting the act of ghosting is abusing or it's very damaging and it's especially damaging with like a long distance relationship because you have this fear of never knowing what happened to this person umm ya know like never knowing if I mean did like did they did something horrible happen to them like that's terrifying and umm and I think it can take on different forms uhh ghosting can like uhh I've had an experience where I I was I recieved a very long winded message um from a partner who I had a long distance relationship with and it was a long winded explanation of why we had to break up that asssumed a lot of my feelings that didn't actually talk about any of the problems that we were having or brought up problems we were having that were never discussed and then  just justified that's why we have to break up right now and I was in shock and I messaged back just simply okay and I never heard from this person again and so like having a one sided conversation and then never talking to the person again I don't know if that counts as ghosting but the effect is similar

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely it's still damaging and I think that that's good to when we're talking about needing to exit a relationship or something like that poise is hard to have but you should try to have it and it's worth having in these situations ya know because the more poise you handle this with probably the less damaging it's going to be for your ex basically

[Credence]: yeah and for yourself because sometimes we can say things in the heat of a moment umm make declarative statements about how we're feeling in a moment and it's not how we feel long term it's just  that we're having a crisis moment and if you act on those kind of impulses without having a conversation about why you're feeling that way you can end up saying and doing things that you regret simply because well I never actually stated what I really felt or we didn't actually talk about how the relationship was going from that person's perspective ya know it does a disservice to both you and your ex because there's no resolution in that

[Sophie]: right yeah absolutely so  uhh ya know lets say you have a long distance relationship and something bad happens ya know emergencies sometimes happend sometimes a crisis happens uhh ya know when catastrophe strikes and your partners are far away or partner is far away there are some things you can do to both before hand and during to umm make the situation as easy as possible on everone and I just wanna talk about those quick we are going to have an episode eventually on emergencies and crisis and ya know stuff like that uhh where we will talk about all of this at much greater length so I don't want to make it sound like this is all we're gonna be saying about it but I wanna just ya know for long distance if someone's listening to this episode ya know there are some contingencies that maybe you should handle before these things comes up

[Credence]: definately having a game plan

[Sophie]: yeah

[Credence]: is everything

[Sophie]: yeah have a game plan the first and most important thing I think is to have a designated go between slash contact person

[Credence]: yeah

[Sophie]: a lot of times or even a couple and everybody knows their role a lot of times this is best if this person lives near you and is gonna be your emergency contact for other things let say you have a partner or a friend who is in your phone and in your work stuff as your emergency contact telling them hey there's this important person in my life and if you're not out as polyamorous you don't even have to tell them it's a partner you can just say I have this really important friend who's long distance that if I end up in the hospital for some reason or if I end up ya know horribly sick or ya know in some sort of trouble umm can you contact them on my behalf and let them know what's going on and let them know I'm fine and

[Credence]: keep them in the  loop

[Sophie]: yeah and contiuously give them updates umm a lot of times when you have a uhh a situation like this people feel pressured to pick the person they're closest to to fulfill this role as the go between that is not neccecarily oh I'm sorry uh just kicking Credence here

[Credence]: oh yep

[Sophie]: a lot of times ya know maybe the single the party you've been with longest or your best friend or your parent or whoever you're gonna have fulfill this role just because they are the person   that you are maybe the closest with doesn't make them the best person for this you're gonna wanna pick a very cool headed person, someone who follows directions very well, someone who's good in a crisis umm ya know there was a partner who ended up in the hospital recently of mine and who had  a partner that they had been with for years and years and years and this partner and I had not been together that long and I was their emergency contact not because they liked me better, not because their other partner coudln't be trusted not because of anything like that but because I follow instructions very well I follow people's wishes very well, I"m the power of attorney for a couple different people actually because they know I'll enact their wishes

[Credence]: you've got the power

[Sophie]: yeah and ya know people know I'm good in a crisis when I get a call it's ya know so and so's doing really poorly or whatever, before I break down and cry I make the phone calls I need to make and then I break down and cry, that's just something about me, doesn't make me better than anybody else doesn't make me worse than anyone else it's just how I handle trauma and crisis cause I had to do it a lot uhh so ya know not saying ya know go pick someone like me but I think that someone who is kind of very level headed good in an emergency stuff like that is a good person to pick

[Credence]: yeah I the only thing I would ad to that is just that make sure that you're picking somebody who you know can, even if you don't know how to communicate what you're like what's going on very well right now pick somebody who understands you very well in that they can communicate what you're trying to communicate so I know for myself I can be in a situation where I'm at a loss for words and so trying to describe how I'm feeling can be very difficult and so relaying that message to somebody who then relays it to other people can be kind of difficult so somebody who kind of gets your mode of communication even when you're not doing well somebody who can understand what you're intended meaning is umm and like just having somebody who can kind of help interpret for you right now because when you're in a crisis it can be very difficult to actuall state how you're feeling and what's going on

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely well and you know sometimes when you're in a crisis you feel like you've just gotta [bangs surface twice] [sings] get away I've got to, welcome to polyfolly a podcast within a podcast where we talk about the crucial and common mistakes that people make and that are the downfalls of their polyamorous relationships cue music ["tainted love" plays] okay so uhh what's our polyfolly today

[Credence]: our polyfolly today Sophie is the failure to bring up problems as soon as they arise so they don't fester

[Sophie]: that's a good one

[Credence]: in a long distance relationship

[Sophie]: so why is that ya know why is that the polyfolly as opposed to anything else

[Credence]: I think the reason we honed in on this is on is because uhh as we said communication is the basis for a good long distance relationship and if that foundation has ya know dry rot in it from the start you're not gonna be able to build shit on top of that

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I think that that's a good analogy uhh ya know and it's I think it part I think  in long distance relationship polyamorous or no it's very easy to kind of avoid your problems  ya know because ya know a lot of times you're communicating more sparesly and you're not  talking as often so things can problems can be out of sight out of mind pretty easity

 [Credence]: yep yep it can be really easy to compartimentalize

 [Sophie]: yeah

 [Credence]: when you're in a long distance relationship so if things are not going great in fact  if things are breaking bad you can actually you can hide that from your partner who's long distance  and and that's not healthy it can create so many future problems not just for your relationship but  for yourself and for your other relationships if ya know this this person who's important in your life  only has one view of you, one view of what's going on in your life and if you're and if you're  altering that view to make it look more perfect than it is it's uh, it's just it's bad news

 [Sophie]: yeah absolutely so ya know we've gotten pretty heavy here ya know it's starting to sound like  long distance relationships are really bad but I don't think that's the case, what are some of the  benifits of long distance relationships

 [Credence]: well I'm glad you asked Sophie because I think that most people tend to focus on how challenging long  distance relationships can be and they forget how they have this unique quality to them that can  really make them incredibly special and meaningful relationships umm for me uhh one of the biggest  benifits of having a long distance relationship is being able to take the day to day stuff umm  and like get to see it from a different content by stepping out of the situation and telling  you're partner who hasn't seen you all day ya know or heard about your work stories a thousand times   they can hear what's going on in your life and give you a new perspective and just telling somebody   who'd not immidiately involved like physically there gives you the ability to kind of take a step back   from the situation and and and see it in a new light that to me I think is such a a genuinely helpful   quality of a long distance relationship

  [Sophie]: yeah it can really help you celebrate the accomplishments that you make throughout the day

  [Credence]: oh yeah and like that too like celebrating your accomplishments becomes ya know just like it's   interesting I think that we have a tendency especially as ya know speaking for myself as a queer,   autistic, mentally ill, disabled person that the things that I do on a daily basis that other people   might see as like well yeah of course you did that that's what you have to do to be an adult umm   those can be very difficult for me for whatever reason and it can be hard to celebrate your own accomplishments   whether they're big or small and having somebody who you hav- who asks you earnestly about your day   that pers- like who hasn't seen you all day so doesn't know ya know have the baggage of like well you've   been grumpy all so your accomplishments are just been, are dumb because they wern't that   big of a deal because you were mostly just a jerk today

  [Sophie]: yeah well and I think ya know well we talked about a lot of times ya know I'm a rather chubby individual now   but I used to be very into fitness and weighlifting and I was actually a boxer once upon a time   umm  and

  [Credence]: I just wanna start singing the simon and garfunkel song, you said that earlier today and all I can   think of is [sings] la la li, la la la la la li la la li (chorus from "the boxer" by Simon and Garfunkel)   okay I'm done

  [Sophie]: [laughs] umm but ya know there's something in exercises called like isolation exercises where you   take like one muscle and you only exercise that muscle and a lot of times it hurts uhh and it's a pain   in the ass and you can't lift that much weight because the muscle's working almost entirely by itself   but it makes that muscle very strong and uhh a lot of the stuff in polyamory ya know it's like stress   testing these things in a way but it can make you like a better communitator and a better partner and   stuff like that and I think long distance it isolates your communication skills and really as you   said before it hones in on em and ya know it forces you to be a better communicator it makes you   a better communicater and that transfers into your other relationships and I think that that's a   very valuble skill

  [Credence]: I agree yeah being able to work on your communication skills and learn how to communicate intentionally

  [Sophie]: yeah

  [Credence]: and like not just how was your day good how was yours it was alright cool like that like   using your time that you have with someone to communicate effectively to communicate intentionally   like what is important for you to communicate to this person and what is the timeline of that and   making you think through those things and appriciate just how much effort you need to to have   a good conversation with somebody and like ya know not everybody can be up for that all the time   I'm not saying that every conversation you need to have with your long distance partner needs to be   about deep dark conflicting issues or something like that but it's ya know learning to communicate   intentionally helps you develop when you need to communicate those ya know complex things and when   you need to just have fun in your communication with them

  [Sophie]: yeah absolutely well and ya know it you get this space to explore yourself and you can focus on   what you really wanna get out of a relationship without it just being well this person is here and   I like them a lot and I want them to be happy ya know it's all about intentionality and I think we've   hit that nail on the head here

  [Credence]: mhmm I'll drive that horse home

  [Sophie]: yeah yeah absolutely so ya know what are some of the happiest experiences and happiest memories   and your favorite things about long distance relationships cause I know what mine is but what are yours

  [Credence]: well for me it's ya know besides like that development of that intentionality of communicating   and intentionality of time spent together it's really savoring that so like not just being intentional   about it but being mindful of the moment living in the moment that you get to have with your long distance   partner and just savoring it justletting yourself enjoy it and keeping in mind that yeah this doesn't   happen very often which is sad but it counts for it is sustaining becoming sustained off of it   knowing that like I'm going to get to have more moments like this and these moments are everything   that keeps this relationship going and is doing a lot of good for me in my life and that doesn't mean   just savoring your umm your like irl or in real life time together that can just be savoring the time   that you get to be on the phone the time you get to do a skype call and see your partner's fave or hell   it can be just even savoring the moments where you get to exchange memes with each other on your lunch break   yeah I guess for me it's my favorite thing about long distance is just been learning to savor those   moments and and help me realize that my relationship can be sustained on those moments and that   trickles into my other relationships too it's like it helps me learn that I might not always get to   be around this partner whom I'm lived with for years but that doesn't mean that our relationship is   gonna fade away cauase I have this knowledge and this sense of intentionality to keep it going

  [Sophie]: yeah absolutely I think that my uhh one of the things that I really cherished about one of my long   distance relationships ya know I mentioned earlier in this episode that somewhat recently there was   a long distance partner of mine who eneded up in the hospital and those hospital phone calls were really   special to me and I really cherished them ya know partly because there was an emergency and there was   a crisis and I was scared ya know cause I love them a lot and it was hard for everybody but getting   to hear their voice was incredile and it helped so much I think for both of us umm and uh ya know it really   umm it broke up our [laughs] it broke up our day to day and it broke up the pattern that we had been   communitating in and as we mentioned before it caused us to communicate very intentionally and uhh   ya know that was ya know yeah it was a bad situation but that was something really special that came   out of it in my mind and I wouldn't trade those phone calls for anything in the world

  [Credence]: yeah it sounds like you were able it sounds like you were able to break out of that compartimentalizing   of like the relationship being framed in this one kind of style of communicating where maybe you weren't   communicating very effectively and maybe it took a crisis to do it you folks were able to find a way to   reach that kind of communicating  with ya know mindful intention to it and I think thats amazing

  [Sophie]: yeah yeah it's ya know whenever I go through something really hard in my life I have the attidude   of I will not get through this without gaining something from it because I'm going to get through it   one way or another but I refuse to have this just be a terrible situation that I didn't learn anything   or gain anything from like come hell or highwater I'm learning something from this or I'm getting something   out of it because the alternative sucks even more which is to say that this happened for no reason whatsoever   so ya know before we wrap up here a few points of order I always mention we have a twitter a facebook   and we have a patreon which is all really cool and the links are on your cover art please consider   susporting us on patreon we have some really cool rewards starting at one dollar a month you'll   get a shoutout on the show which uhh ya know you get at the upper levels you get every other level too   so I wanna say thank you to Merca Alexa McCool and Ari Stilman thank you both we have Jade we have   Vlad and we have Miles Kataro uhh so thank you all so much uhh you're absolutely wonderful and uhh   for Jade and for Merca and Ari they are at the five dollar leve which means that they have access    to a bonus episode that we uploaded [Credence]: ohooooo [Sophie]: basically how I wanted, I'm uncomfortable with putting good advice behind a paywall for the bonus episodes so what we're doing is we're doing kind of profiles and deep dives into specific people who are good at polyamory and we're talking about the things that make them particulary sucessfull at polyamory the experiences they've had good and bad advice they want to give the world stuff like that uhh so if you need advice on a specific topic it won't be behind a paywall because I'm uncomfortable with that but it is really good and interesting stuff and I hope you learn more about thep eople who are on the show so if you're at a five dollar level that'll get you that and if anyone wants to do the ten dollar level that's only five dollars and episode and you'll get all the episodes a week early on there and as soon as someone does that I will start uploading the episodes a week early ya know all of you we really appriciate your continued support I know this is a small chanell and we're just starting out but even a dollar a month from a few of you helps us offset the cost of some new equipment we're looking to investing into to make our sound quality even better and would really help us just make the podcast the absolute best it can be and so if you enjoy the podcast please this week share it with at least one friend or partner just one person you can even say hey I'm just gonna download this on your phone quick and then you got it, we don't have the money to pay for advertizing so if this is going to work and take off it's going to be all on ya'll and I can't tell you how amazing it feels to know that ya know we're just starting out we've only been doing this a couple months and we already have all these amazing fans who are even tuning in even day of that the downloads drop and everything umm ya know and and listening to what we have to say and that's a really cool feeling I hope this is helpful to yall and please if you're interested if you're on twitter and facebook and social media go follow and like us there because there's a lot of cool updates and some content and me shitposting every now and then that you're missing out on if you're not on there

[Credence]: before you go Sophie I have to tell you, I really like your metamors

[Sophie]: [laughs]

[Credence]: you know why

[Sophie]: why

[Credence]: cause I never meet a-mor I didn't like

[Sophie]: [Credence]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: that was bad

[Credence]: this is why she's dating me

[Sophie]: yeah pretty much so now that we got that out of the way thanks for listeing and for your continued support and as always remember

[Sophie]: [Credence]: dont' date your best friend's dad and don't date your dad's best friend

[Sophie]: see you next time folks

["Good old fashioned lover boy" by Queen plays]

[Announcer]: This show was part of the trans podcaster visibility initiative

[End transcript]

#polyam #polyamory #long distance relationships #queer #trans #polyamradio #ep7

[polyamradiotranscripts]

Ep.4 Polysaturation

polyAM Radio Episode Four-Polysaturation

[Begin Transcript]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody and welcome to polyam radio the best show on the internet about polyamory that weird relationship thing you do with lots of other people

["Crazy little thing called love" by Queen plays]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody and welcome my name is Sophie Last-name-redacted

[Mara]: and I'm Mara Fake-last-name

[Sophie]: you are listening to polyAM radio which you already know because the intro just played

[Mara]: [laughs] just to remind you real quick about pronouns this is Mara's voice I use they them their pronouns

[Sophie]: this is Sophie I use she hers, Mara

[Mara]: yeah Sophie what's your problem

[Sophie]: wow, okay

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: umm soo, uh yeah I got a problem though

[Mara]: whats your problem Sophie

[Sophie]: I got, ya know, the holidays are comin up

[Mara]: oh I know

[Sophie]: and uh ya know candlenights is great uh for those mbmbam beanos who celebrate it but uh I got a problem with presants

[Mara]: mmm, mhmm

[Sophie]: I got too many partners Mara, I got too many presants to buy for too many partners

[Mara]: I haven't even started yet Sophie

[Sophie]: oh god, see I'm making some of the gifts for some of my partners soo

[Mara]: and you're only starting now

[Sophie]: no no I already have started well I've started some of them now I've started one

[Mara]: Sophie there's only thirty four days 'till christmas

[Sophie]: oh god

[Mara]: thankfully candlenights is whenever you want it to be

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: [laughs] I guess uhh ya know I uh I recently was talking online to some people about people that start their podcasts by doing skits and I'm not a huge fan of it just cause it feels really fake but umm ya know whereas we just normally just kinda pick a topic and go from there but I gotta say that I definitely see the appeal of avoiding a long awkward silence like that

[Mara]: yeah uh-huh having something scripted would really help with that instead of just pulling something out of our asses just now

[Sophie]: yeah that was supposed to be a long and entertaing bit about how hard it is to get christmas presants and stuff like that when you have so many partners and ya know whatnot uhh but

[Mara]: but we suck

[Sophie]: yeah we're not that good at this yet, I got to say I do want to say one thing I guess umm it's starting to feel real for me this podcast uhh I was on ya know I download the podcast and I listen to it actually the same as y'all are listening to it umm

[Mara]: I don't know how you can listen to yourself

[Sophie]: I acutally really

[Mara]: I hate it [laughs]

[Sophie]: I actually really enjoy it because I feel like it makes me better uhh because I can ya know if I listen to it a few times or whatever I can be really critical of myself and say okay these are things I need to  do better

[Mara]: I don't know how yall are listening to my nasally Wisconsin accent Im sorry

[Sophie]: oh my gosh

[Mara]: oh my gosh

[Sophie]: oh my gosh

[Mara]: that can't be real plesant so props to you for listening I guess

[Sophie]: yeah but so I do listen to it and ummm ya know I was listening to some of the previous episodes and whatnot umm I was listening to some of the previous episodes and ya know it's starting to feel real like there's enough ya know episodes now that I have to scroll through my ya know in the podcast app on apple and uhh on like spreaker where we host it there's like three episodes now and we're recording the fourth and it's starting to feel like we actually got something here

[Mara]: it's pretty cool

[Sophie]: yeah like this isn't just something like ohh we're going to start and it's not going to take off and everything it feels real and kinda good

[Mara]: yeah yeah

[Sophie]: I'm really happy with how this project has turned out I hope you all are umm we actually our next episode is gonna be a little weird uh it's gonna be uh what did you call it Mara

[Mara]: happy poly day

[Sophie]: happy poly days yeah and it's basically gonna be about all the holiday struggles uh taht people have when they're poly and stuff like that so everything from uh what gifts to get for what partners and how to afford all of them to

[Mara]: families

[Sophie]: yeah families and this person is a really big part of my life and how do I introduce them as my roomate or something like that

[Mara]: or do I introduce them to my family too

[Sophie]: yeah I gotta say I am there's this couple I'm dating right now umm who are some of the most fantastic people in the world uhh and one of whom transcribes the show and is blushing hardcore right now as she hears this but umm they're just they're they haven't been in my life for all that long umm but they're really important to me and it's actually difficult kinda going into the holiday season like I wish that umm ya know I could introduce them to my family and everything and be like ya know both of them to my family and be like hey uh ya know these are some people that are really important in my life and I wish that with all my partners but I'm feeling that really hard with two people in particular right it's it's just kinda hitting me close to home umm not to say that I don't feel that way about the rest of my partners of course I don't wanna set up some weird dichotomy or whatever umm

[Mara]: if you have any uhh holiday struggles feel free to send those in to use

[Sophie]: oh got yess that would be marvelous

[Mara]: so it's not just us talking because we're two people and we have not experienced everything there is to experience in the world so tell us your poly-days struggles

[Sophie]: yeah especially about like coming out to your family as poly and stuff like that

[Mara]: cause neither of us have done that

[Sophie]: yeah neither of us have done that uhh we just have kinda chosen not too uhh our family's are on the conservative side and are barely okay with me being trans uhh like so

[Mara]: yeah we'll just leave that for now

[Sophie]: yeah they're like barely okay with a binary trans girl never the less a uh an enby so

[Mara]: which they don't even know about

[Sophie]: yeah so the fact that ya know we just kinda choose not to go there cause we don't want it to get ugly at ya know christmas and for the rest of our years be the ones who ruined the christmas of seventeen or whatever

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: so we're just we're not dealing with it and that's our choice  and it's valid and if that's your choice then it's valid too but if you have funny stories or uhh lots of experience and stuff like that it would be really cool to hear from you you can tweet at us you've got two hundred and eighty characters now so what more could you need it's @PolyAM_Radio with an underscore in there capital 'p' 'am' and 'r' or you could send us an email at polyamradio all lowercase all one word at gmail dot com uhh you've actually got that information on the cover art of your umm of this podcast now I put it on there when I updated it so it's pretty cool stuff

[Mara]: you should also check out our facebook page if you're not on those other websites as well

[Sophie]: we're gonna plug all the stuff again at the end of the episode so there's that to look forward to

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: umm but so like I said at the begining of the episode and our ya know umm and I I guess what probably should have been a skit but kinda wasn't umm

[Mara]: that's just awkardly rambling

[Sophie]: ya know I'm having some problems with gift giving lately and uhh we actually got an email from someone who has a bit of a problem giving a gift of their own vis a vis love uhh ya know mentioned in a previous episode love is like a gift and you can keep giving it as long as you have resources to give those gifts and everthing kind of spoons and money and everthing and they actually emailed uh this person and with a really heartfelt and beautiful email I thought and uhh well why don't you read it Mara cause it was so moving we wanted to do an entire episode devoted to the topic with it

[Mara]: and I'm so so excited send us emails I think this is real real cool

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely we've gotten ya know this is only the third email we've ever gotten so this is real real exciting for us

[Mara]: Sophie and Mara let me first just say that I am so excited about PolyAM_Radio I've recently been exploring myself as a polyamours individual and it's scary at times listening to your show eases the fear and helps me to know what is healthy and valid this being said I need some advice ever since discovering that monogamy is not for me I have been falling in love with what seems to be everyone I know I can't give everone christmas gifts but gee it sure is hard to decide who I want to give my gifts to and how many I understand the answer varies from person to person and I already have a pretty busy life however I was wondering if you could tell me a general number that seems to work for you and others you know how many partner is too many how can I make sure that if I have multiple partners they're all getting the love and attention they deserve, enamored in Eagleton

[Sophie]: I'm gonna go and, wel they're probably too old now because the Matrix is an old movie but I'm gonna go find the bald white child umm from the Matrix the I think the second movie that was that

[Mara]: there is no spoon

[Sophie]: yeah there is no number

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: there is no right number which makes this kind of a hard question to answer because I can't just be like six, or whatever umm

[Mara]: holy shit yeah there are probably people out there with six partner but for me oooh

[Sophie]: I uh I did the math I actually have six partner right now

[Mara]: oh my god you're nuts

[Sophie]: yeah so we're going to get into the number in just a minute here but uh we just want to mention a few things first like I said the reference to giving a gift and everthing uh giving everyone christmas gifts it's a refernce to a previous episode we talked about love is not a pie that you slice up love is a gift and you can give anyone a gift and people are just thankfull for the gifts that they get they're not like ooh I didn't get as many as them or whatever and that's important if you don't understand that what the fuck are you doing you're listning to the episodes in the wront order smack uhh I also wanted to uh there is no wrong number so I guess ya know I'll kinda edit out the five minutes you need to do the math on your fingers but how many partner do you have right now

[Mara]: I can confidently say I have three partners uhh four if you count some more causal comittments that I have that I haven't necceicarily moved forward with I have a couple of comets in my life so this be people who I don't see all that often but when I do it's great it's fun it's really nice so I think I will I'm I'm like ninety five percent certain taht I'm not leaving anybody out when I say I have three partners that I'm pretty comitted to right now

[Sophie]: yeah I umm right now I have uhh I would say four very comitted partners and then I have uhh like at least two if not three kind of comets like we talk about people who are kind of just on your peripherary it's not a super comitted thing it's not a super hardcore thing but when they're around you have a lot of fun and uhh ya know it's it's a really cool thing and that doesn't mean that the relationship is worth less or anything like that but if we're just doing like total numbers of partners I do have six or seven partners right now that's not including like people that I would just have casual sex with or whatever all though I don't really think there's anybody I have casual sex with right now ya know that's not including play partners or anything like that, that's like partners partners

[Mara]: for sure uhh and the most amount of partners I've ever had at a time has been five, five, and that was way too many for me umm that was way too many for me unfortunately it didn't end very well I was I wasn't giving people the amount of attention they deserved and I ended up going to partners and kinda saying hey I'm really sorry I got kinda swept up in this new relationship energy or I've just been so busy with other things that I haven't been able to give you the attention you deserve and I'm sorry, most of them are pretty understanding ya know they appriciated me coming to them and saying hey I'm really polysaturated and I'm trying to work on this but I need to just kind of ya know take a second and re-address some of these comittments that I've made so that it's fair and that I'm giving you the attention that I can and the attention that you want from me

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I umm right now this is actually the most number of partn- ya know the greatest number of partners that I've ever had that having been said it doesn't feel like that right now because there was a time about a year ago I think or maybe a little less where, man, that really felt like I was just uh I mean I felt like ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag I mean I was just ripping at the seams uhh just with ya know how much and and how many uhh ya know partners  I had and and how stretched thin I was to make sure everybody got time and eventually I kind of ya know grew into it and everything and ended up aquiring some more ya know some people come or some people became a little more tangential in my life some people ya know left some people came in umm so I don't wanna make it seem like I'm streched super thin right now because I don't presonally feel that way I don't necceicarily think I'd want to go adding another five or six right now ya know that seems like a lot uhh but ya know I I'm not at what I would call critical mass right now which is a good place to not be umm there's actually a word though for that feeling like you're just gonna burst at the seams like you're being pulled in a million different directions at once and that's called polysaturation umm and so we got this email about it like I said and uh we thought that polysaturation was important enough that we wanted to do a whole episode on it so tell me a little bit about polysaturation Mara

[Mara]: yeah uhh so it's kinda like you said when it when it's that feeling of being stretched too thin it's ya know you don't feel like you're getting the quality time that you want with your partners and you feel like they're not getting the quality time they deserve umm and I think the hardest thing about this is at different points in my life I'm a student right now I've mentioned that before I'm a student and I work and I'm getting ready to apply to grad school which is a big scary thing so the amount of time that I have during different times of the year vary and the summer I have a lot more time as opposed to like ya know right up against finals like we are right now it just it varies so I know that at different points in my life like ya know it's there are times where there's too many and right now the number that I'm at I'm super comfy ya know I know that even if I do get really busy even if I do have that time crunch I'm gonna be able to give the time and attention to my partners that they deserve uhh but it is a problem and it is something that I've dealt with before like I was talking about earlier when I was polysaturated ya know it it took a toll on a couple of my relationships and it was it was a really crappy feeling coming to my partners and saying hey I've been kind of neglecting you and I'm sorry that was something that's really really hard but ya know being able to talk to those partners really helped me to make sure that they were getting the attention that they deserved because if you don't talk to your partners you don't know what they need ya know it it's one of those talk to your partner moments

[Sophie]: you gotta commuunniicattee [drawn out]

[Mara]: you gotta commuunniicattee [drawn out] exactly it's ya know it it's really important to be on the same page as all of your partners and I think that's the best answer I have to your question how can you make sure that all of your partners are getting the love and attention that they deserve, talk to your partners know the level of comittment that they want know the level of comittment you want and then try to structure your relationships around that ya know I think umm unfortunately there's not a good way to know when when you hit peak partners until you're sitting there and you're like well fuck ya know just a trial and error ohh no I've done it again [laughs]

[Sophie]: well and I think part of the problem ya know there's not really ever in your life gonna be a rule as far as ya know oh well this is how many partners I can have because part of it a lot of it has to do in my experience with how many or or pardon me not how many partners uhh you have but with kind of who the partners are and how much attention they require and how much ya know how often they kinda wanna see you and are able to see you ya know uhh I date primarialy other students and what not or people who have been students uhh just that's who I'm dating right now and ya know I gotta say they're pretty understanding for the most part of my time and when I don't have much but ya know a lot of times I mean I see Mara every day because we live together ya know we're nesting partners we wake up next to each other umm ya know frankly if it wasn't Mara if it was someone else this would be a nightmare frankly but Mara's just special and wonderful ya know I'm able to do it, there are other partners I have where I'll go days without talking to them and that's fine, that's not a problem, uhh especially the long distance ones or whatever and then there are sometimes where we'll talk for hours and hours in a day ya know you kinda block your time like that ya know but even just this weekend I was studying for a huge exam that was monday night and I didn't really see you almost all weekend and especially the day of the exam monday I mean it was an evening exam so I basically like you came and saw me in the library at one point but ya know I just didn't have time and that's okay that's not a bad thing so ya know my partners for the most part understand where I'm coming from and where I'm at so I can have more because they're so understaning and because they're usually by in large or at least lately they're usually pretty low maintainence umm people that need more from you that require more from you that is absolutely fine that does not make them bad or toxic but you will be able to have less which again is fine more isn't better but ya know they're going to require more time and more energy and more spoons and more everything from you so that's going to affect your number too umm Mara even said it it also differs ya know the time of year over the summer and over the winter man I can have a million fuckin partners I'd be soo like ya know I'm just swimming in time and then the second the semester starts up again I'm in hell

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: I'm in absolute hell and ya know I've had problems with that before ya know  with getting in too deep during some of the off months and then going ohh tits

[Sophie]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: this wasn't I don't know why I thought this was sustainible but it is not and hindsight is great but now I have this cool thing that I don't want to end how do I resolve that

[Mara]: well and unfortunately in my experience a lot of it is just it's trial and error it's umm to thine own self be true a little bit know what you're capable of know what you want poly is polyam excuse me is a lot of work truly I think a lot of people look at polyamory like it's the the lazy I wanna avoid comittment thing to do but truly you are actively choosing and actively pursuing comittments with so many other people and so you're sitting there and you need to think about things a lot harder than you do in uhh at least I feel you have to think about things a lot harder than you do in monogamous relationships you need to have a lot of self refelction and that's hard and you're gonna make mistakes and they're gonna suck, making mistakes sucks, in my experience as, speaking as somebody who's made more than their share of mistakes, mistakes suck and they hurt and it might cause break ups to happen and that's not fun and we can probably do a whole episode on polyamorous break ups, but

[Sophie]: damn that's ac- that would be really good I don't have that, I have a list on my phone of episodes that I want to do and that's not on there and that would be really good actually that would be really good

[Mara]: yeah I feel like we could do just, we could talk into your ears for another full forty mintues or however long we tend to go about what breaking up when polyamorous is like

[Sophie]: well especially because recently and ya know it's still pretty fresh it still hurts a lot umm the truth of the matter is a few months ago we had a nesting partner leave us and it wasn't pretty, it was someone who we had comitted to heavily and who we kind of thought was always gonna be in our lives and umm ya know we gave them a comittment symbol and they literally in the they threw it out ya know and umm ya know it was it was hard on everybody and I'm not gonna sit here and slander anybody but uhh ya know that is kinda something we went through

[Mara]: yeah there there was a lot going on there to be sure but umm so anyways yeah no like know yourself talk to  your partner and also this is the best the single best piece of advice I have ever been given by someone else who is polyamour it was actually uhh one of my current partners you have to treat yourself like you are dating yourself, you need to know when you need you time you need to know when you need to be maybe with this one partner maybe not spending so much time with this other partner and you need to be with other people who are good communitaters it's it's really important to surround yourself with with people who aren't toxic for you and and someone being toxic doesn't necceicarily mean that they're a bad person it just means that they're not the right person for you and so you need to be aware of that but I guess my best piece of advice is as you meet people you can add relationships I don't think I know anybody who ya know discovers that they are a polyamorous individual and then goes out in one day and comes back with five relationships that's not in my experience how relationships work and it might be for some people but I think often times it's this process of getting to know people

[Sophie]: [Mara]: [singing] geting to know you, getting to know all about you

[Sophie]: can you tell I don't know the song very well

[Mara]: [laugh] umm can you tell that I was a theatere kid in high school, probably um but you ya know you get to know people you get to know their relational style because everyone has different relationship sytles everybody has different umm I know there are people out there who don't think that the love languages exist or are a smart thing or whatever I personally like that I think it's a useful of explaining the way that people give and show love ya know and I umm I'm very much a quality time person, I I wanna spend time with people but if you know you're a quality time person and you are with somebody who is a words of affirmation person you need to learn how to relate to them or maybe that doesn't work for you and that's okay you just need to know that , so ya know know yourself as hard as that is to do uhh spend some time dating yourself getting to know what you want and what's important to you in a relationship

[Sophie]: yeah and I think that's really good advice uhh ya know and again I try to ya know this is a show by polyamorous people for polyamours people but I always hope there are things in here that anyone can take away that monogamous people can take away, that aromantic people can take away, umm ya know uhh and I think that really whenever you're in a realtionship ever you should always say yes I'm dating this person but I'm also dating myself or I'm not dating anyone but I'm also dating myself because you have to put time and energy and active thought into a relationship and you should treat yourself with time and energy and active thought you should be treating yourself well so I gotta ask ya know after all this uhh is this, how real is this problem, how serious is this and how serious should we be taking it uhh ya know is this something like new relationship energy where it's kinda a  minor problem and it can make you do some foolish things and it can get you into a little bit of troube but it's not that serious as long as you know it's there and look out for it, is this something that it can really start to impeade your life if you don't pay attention to it or is this something that in your opinion doesn't realy cause a lot of problems

[Mara]: I think it's something that can really really mess with your life and it in any relationship ya know monogamous or friendship or whatever if you're neglecting somebody if you're not spending time with somebody you're just kinda like oh yeah yeah we're in a relationship but I don't have to spend time with you right I don't have to talk to you or give you any attention that's that's bad, that's bad for your partners that's bad for you and I think it is, it's a real problem I think ya know before it escalates to it it absolutely is ya know kinda like new relationship energy and being aware and wow I'm being a dumbass right now and I need to check myself before wreck myself kinda thing

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I think that it's a lot like being stressed out or having a panic attack, it doesn't necceicarily it ya know it doesn't neccecitate that there is something wrong things could be fine there might not be a problem but even if there's not whatever the situation is you're not handling it and a change needs to be made even just for your health and well being even if you're not currently neglecting your partners you are stressed out about this and doing something different would probably be good that doesn't neccecarily mean ending the relationships but probably at this point certainly not starting any new ones right I mean

[Mara]: yeah

[Sophie]: if you're feeling polysaturated the best thing to do is give yourself some times say okay I'm not gonna date anybody new and if you meet somebody amazing and if you fall in love and if it's perfect and if and if and if tell them hey listen I just ya know I really like you but I just got into this new relationship and it's taking a lot of my time and energy and I want to be with you but we gotta put it on hold because I just need some time to adjust to this new thing and figure out where it's going and what's gonna happen ya know versus just ya know devil may care jumping into a new thing I think that's really foolish personally umm, is there a kinda of a a solution a cure-all a ya know cure-all cure nothing as they always say in sawbones but umm,

[Mara]: you're such a dork

[Sophie]: [laughs] I'm a McElroy fangirl I can't help it

[Mara]: ya know what it's okay because when we were talking about ya know if theres a rule as to how many people I almost said ya know it's not like a rule of two kind of thing

[Sophie]: [yells] yes! you don't even like star wars

[Mara]: no I'm just around it all the god damn time

[Sophie]: yes

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: Mara isn't even in to star wars, they've just absorbed enough about the Banite Sith to know that the rule of two is like  a really big deal from me reading the novels if you haven't read them go out and read Drew Kapershick's Darth  Bane trilogy path of desctruction, rule of two, dynasty of evil it's amazing and then read Darth Plageius by  James Lucino, holy crap mind blowing books, really really well written umm and if you like star wars at all  you'll love these books the audio books on audible are amazing, they're not paying me to say that I'm just a fan

 [Mara]: you're trash

 [Sophie]: I'm trash

 [Mara]: [laughs]

 [Sophie]: I'm absolute trash

 [Mara]: is is there a solution,commuunniicattee [drawn out]

 [Sophie]: you gotta commuunniicattee [drawn out]

 [Mara]: you gotta commuunniicattee [drawn out] yeah no talk to your partners know yourself,  refelct [laughs] ya know  uh think before you snack, act

 [Sophie]: think before you snak

 [Mara]: it's from mulan when she's got the umm caligraphy on her arm and shes

 [Sophie]: ohhh

 [Mara]: reciting the final admonition I'm also a huge Disney nerd umm but yeah ya know think think before your snack, act

 [Sophie]: [coughs]

 [Mara]: yeah no it's kinda we we've covered the solution a couple of times throughout the podcast, know yourself,  know your partners, just spend some time thinking about what you need to do

 [Sophie]: yeah and and I think that ya know I would say if I had to give a solution mine would probably be  treat it like stress because that's really what it is it's just stress about the relationships and about being  streched to thin and generally speaking when I feel stressed I often feel like I don't have enough time for anything  and that's really really  really bad  because the soulution to that is to take more time to do things and to  move very deliberately through your life

 [Mara]: mhmmm

 [Sophie]: umm take more time to do basic self care I'm not talking about giving yourself a fun ya know a bath with rose petals  in there I'm talking about showering with a fucking uhh pumice stone and scraping three weeks of dead skin off your arms  I'm talking about eating at all, I'm talking about drinking water, enough of it, you need to take more time to do these  things when you're stressed, not less, you need to take more time to study if you're stressed about school than when  you're not stressed and it often feels like you don't have any time and you can't do these things, that is your brain  lying to you because it thinks you're being chased by a tiger and that you're going to die, my grandfather had a saying  uhh that he he was a cartoonist and he used to write this saying on everything umm and ya know I think he had  a really interesting perspective because he was I'm not big on the military I'm not big on imperialism  and and and stuff like that but he was in the military uhh he was in the Korean conflict and umm [laughs] actually  in his old age he used to say that he didn't wanna go on walks because he walked across Korea and that was enough  for anybody, regardless he had a saying that the way  to relieve yourself of a burden is not by refusing to carry it

 [Mara]: mhmm

 [Sophie]: the best way to relieve yourself of a burden is not by refuling to carry is the way to relieve yourself of this stress  with this relationship is not by refusing to carry it and it's not by just saying oh well I'll give my partners more  time and I'll spend more time and I'll go on more dates, no, the way to relieve yourself of it is to do the uncomfortable  thing talk to your partners and then sink more time into yourself because chances are if you're feeling polysaturated  the one who's not getting enough time more than anyone else is actually you, okay, and I'll just say that out there  because pretty much anytime when you feel streched too thin by comittments and stuff like that and ogbligations generally  speaking we drop things that we need first and it's important to take care of yourself and do the things that you need  to do to keep going and to subsist

 [Mara]: well and and Sophie you're kind of a ch-emist

 [Sophie]: I am indeed a ch-emist ch-emistry

 [Mara]: ch-emistry umm but

 [Sophie]: I'm a bio ch-emist

 [Mara]: you're a ch-emist [laughs]

 [Sophie]: I wish I was a ch-emist I'm a wannabe ch-emist, chemist chemist for those of you who are having trouble figuring  that out

 [Mara]:  with saturation when a solution is saturated it means that there's too much of one of the uhh of the solvent, no  the solvent is the thing that, can you tell that I'm real real bad at chemistry

 [Sophie]: can you tell that I'm not helping and that I'm just gonna let you flounder

 [Mara]: uhh

 [Sophie]: so when a solution reaches saturation I just said I wasn't gonna help, umm but when a solution reaches saturation  basically you have your solution and you have your solute

 [Mara]: solute! that's the word

 [Sophie]: [crosstalk] and your solute is what is dissolved in the solution, and basically at that point you cannot get  any more solute into that amount of solution it won't dissolve anymore it's just going to sit there at the bottom  of the beaker stubbornly and not dissolve and you need to do one of two things if you want to get away from saturation  and I think Mara's gonna talk about it

 [Mara]: No I was gonna ask you what you do I just you really you kinda stole that from me

 [Sophie]: sorry

 [Mara]: I was trying to be clever

 [Sophie]: I'm sorry I get really excited about ch-emistry

 [Mara]: so what do you do when a solution is uhh saturated

 [Sophie]: you can do one of three things, umm the first thing you can do is find a way to remove some of the excess solute  that's in there by filtration or something like that remove some of the stressor, in our analogy, another thing you  can do is add more solution if you have something that is taking up your time and whatnot and you lets say it's school  and you graduate from school and all the sudden it's ah I've got so much more time it's wonderfull, great, you can  sink that into your relationships if you want, you've added more to the solution, the third thing you can do is  heat up the solution because a greater amount of free energy in the solution will result in a greater amount of  uhh ya know solute being able to dissolve in there, I don't really know how that applies

 [Mara]: set the things that are taking your time on fire

 [Sophie]: yeah for sure

 [Mara]: set it on fire

 [Sophie]: light your obligations on fire

 [Mara]: [laughs]

 [Sophie]: I will say that it's actually very interesting

 [Mara]: don't do that please don't do that

 [Sophie]: yeah please yeah please don't do that

 [Mara]: for the love of god no

 [Sophie]: I do wanna mention there is something that can happen only with certain solutes in certain solutions  uhh but you can reach a point called super saturation if you heat it up dissolve more than is natural to be in there  more than is uhh kind of chemically comfortable to be in the solution you can reach a point of super saturation and  then everythings fine as it slowly cools down and you can go type in super saturation into youtube and look this up  but any disturbance say a finger poke in the top will cause tons of solute to spontaneously umm uhh umm uhh word  to spontaneously percipitate out of solution wow I went to college to get stupid I guess, uhh but basically  the metaphor equivalant of that will be is that if you try to super saturate your life it'll end poorly  and I'll have like very little sympathy for you cause like I warned ya and you heard it on the podcast

 [Mara]: so don't light your obligations on fire

 [Sophie]: please please don't do that thing

 [Mara]: uh oh

 [Sophie]: oh go for it sorry

 [Mara]: did, do you hear that

 [quiet klaxon sounds, grows louder]

 [Sophie]: what

 [Mara]: in the distance

 [Sophie]:  in the distance, I hear it

 [Mara]: it's getting closer

 [Sophie]: it is it's getting louder, I think do we have a polyfolly

 [Mara]: we have a pollyfolly

 [Sophie]: son of a bitch we have a polyfolly fucking pollyfolly

 [Mara]: [laughs]

 [klaxon fades]

 [Mara]: so today's pollyfolly is getting into too many realtionships too quickly which uhh this is like new relationship  energy and polysaturation in one fun package

 [Sophie]: yeah I umm I wanna mention that this also includes joining triads and things like that if you find a cool couple  or if you find a cool triad or a cool polycule of any size that you think you wanna join that is cool I am happy  for you but

 [Mara]: check yourself

 [Sophie]: it could get very bad very quick especially as the new realtionship energy wears off I would not be shocked at all  to hear that someone in that situation would begin to feel polysaturated again doesn't make you bad doesn't make  you wrong it just means that it's something you need to be aware of going into it that way you don't make an ass   of yourself, get it, cool, also probably uh ya know you mentioned new relationship energy and I wanna throw this in   there a lot of new relationship energy can convince you to get too serious too soon in a relationship that's   definitely gotta be a big polyfolly

 [Mara]: yeah well and if you haven't listend to that episode yet we have a whole episod-

 [Sophie]: what are ya doing ya lis- doing in the wrong order

 [Mara]: there's no order Sophie

 [Sophie]: there is an order, no when I export these to m-p-three they ask me what the track number is and I put it in there

 [Mara]: there's not an order, but yeah we have a whole episode that talks about why that's a difficult thing you should   go listen to that that's why that's a polyfolly don't jump up that relationship escalator

[Sophie]: don't jump up a podcast escalator listen to it in the right order

[Mara]: all right, uhh also failing to get to know someone fully before getting comitted to them that is that is guilty

[Sophie]: yeah guilty

[Mara]: you can't see it , raising my hand guilty guilty as fuck

[Sophie]: can you tell, ya know these polyfollies we don't have like a magic book that we look into that somebody else wrote and we say ahh these where the polyfollies are if we're saying usually means we've done it and is usually means it went poorly

[Mara]: yeah so good to know people

[Sophie]: getting to know you [singing] getting to know things about you

[Mara]: a;lsdkfj not wrong, that's fine [laughs ] but yeah no get get to know your partners it's cool

[Sophie]: we're gonna have no downloads after this episodes because people aren't gonna want to listen to my voice

[Mara]: before you saddle that comittment monster [comittment monster growl]

[Sophie]: every fucking episode he's gonna be in now I swear

[Mara]: yeah he's a reocurring character well see it's the less than four times more than seven times theory so I'm sorry for the next few episodes you're gonna fuckin hate the comittment monster but

[Sophie]: oh but then it'll start to be ironically funny again

[Mara]: yeah

[Sophie]: yeah because we've doing it too much until we've done it sooo much that it just becomes funny again

[Mara]: mhmm

[Sophie]: got it okay

[Mara]: yeah

[Sophie]: now I understand

[Mara]: but before you saddle up that comittment monster get to know the person that you're saddling that comittment monster with because oh wow this is gonna get real real dark they might stab you in the back and ride off with that comittment monster

[Sophie]: they might steal your comittment monster and then you'll have to go find a new comittment monster

[Mara]: and I just nobody wants to do that

[Sophie]: breaking in a new comittment monster is a terrible line of work

[Mara]: [laughs] umm yeah so I think that's all we have for polyfollies today

[Sophie]: before we finish up I have a few points of order

[Mara]: is this a meeting

[Sophie]: this is well

[Mara]: I didn't know you're falling roberts rules

[Sophie]: roberts rules

[Mara]: roberts rules, meeting, no we don't have points of order

[Sophie]: uhh well we do have this point of order, umm I didn't pay much attention in my commuinications class that my college required me to take um I'm pretty sure I did actually go to college to get stupid but umm I just want to mention again like we mentioned at the begining we do have a twitter and a facebook but as you can also see on the cover art of this we have a patreon now which is really cool and uhh like I said the link should be in your cover art it won't work if you click on it but it's seriously patreon dot com slash polyam radio it's pretty easy and before you turn this off because we're asking you for money just hear me out for one second umm we have some really cool rewards that we're gonna be putting on patreon and it would really help us out seriously it starts at just one dollar a months

[Mara]: give us your lunch money

[Sophie]: yeah I'm gonna start out I'm gonna just read very quickly some of the cool rewards that we have on there you can go uhh ya know read them yourself on the link but I'm just gonna ya know briefly briefly umm kinda go through it so for the first level which is patrons this starts at just one dollar a month uhh seriously y'all that is fifty cents an episode that you're basically paying for this I think these ya know frankly I think these episodes are worth more than fifty cents a piece uhh but you're getting them for free right now and if you'd like to show your support but you're kinda straped for cash that's absolutely fine for just one dollar a month you'll get a personal shout out on this show probably on most of the episodes umm ya know that's a pretty cool thing ya know you can hear your own name and other people will know how cool you are and I think that's a really awesome thing uhh for partner that's partner of the show not partner of us, that's a five dollar a month tier and at this level you'll not only get a shout out on the show almost every episode  but uhh you'll also get access to a few bonus episodes we're gonna record and post and those are gonna be cool topics that only our patreon users will have access to so that's some very cool stuff and ya know frankly I hope everybody ya know wants to support on patreon and I hope everyone is able to because these are gonna be really cool episodes that you're not gonna have access to otherwise and ya know it's not that we wanna keep things from other people we just wanna ya know those people that uhh wanna go the extra mile and support us that way we wanna do them a little something umm and then primaries this is the top teir right now for ten dollars uhh a month or more I wanted to make a glucose guardian slash sugar daddy level but all I could think of the reward was show you my tits and I don't think I'm allowed to do that especially over an audio only medium umm so basically at the ten dollar a month level uhh you'll get the shout out on the show you'll get the bonus episodes and uhh you will get all the episodes a week before they come out for everybody else so basically once we get some ten dollar basically what we're gonna be doing is over winter break I'm gonna create kind of a backlog of these episodes and we're gonna have a few of them stored up and I'll be posting them a week early on patreon for our ten dollar a month primary umm uhh patrons I guess our primary patrons umm so if you really really love this show and you wanna support it and you wanna get some early episodes and everything and see it before everyone else does and be the cool one at the bar who ya know knows what's going on in everybodies favorite podcast then that's a real good option I encourage you umm I made the descriptions of these levels very funny in the text I didn't wanna read them here because I wanted the surprise to be there for you but I encourage you at least visit our patreon give em a read umm maybe consider it and certainly share the link and tell your friends because umm we're looking at investing in some new recording equipment and stuff like that our microphone is really high quality but it's just sitting on the counter right now we don't have a mic stand umm we don't have a kind of a one of those cloth like pop ya know buffer things umm uh I'm sorry I've been really sick all week and yeah like I said sorry I'm getting sick and or I'm just getting over being sick rather and its reall- this is really taking a toll on my voice today umm but anyways umm ya know I know that umm uhh it would mean the world to both Mara and me if you would at least consider supporting and if you'd share with your friends so we can get more listeners right now this is only the fourth episode we're recording and right now we've got about twenty or so people who listen a week and I can't tell you how amazing that feels I know that's not much in the podcasting world when people have ya know six figures of followers but I'm an activist who does events at the colligiate level right now and when I put on a program if twenty people showed up uhh ya know I'm in heaven ya know that's great in my world truly umm ya know we love and appriciate every single one of your you're the absolute ya know I guess you're our fans I guess and like ya know not that you like bake us cookies and send us things and whatever but I still think you're the best fans in the world and I just I can't tell you how much we both appriciate this so like I said please consider supporting us and please this week if you could it would mean a lot to us tell at least at least one friend or partner about this podcast and just download it on their phone for them just give them that just say hey I'm just gonna do this quick and then ya have it and listen to it whenever you gotta because then they got it and they won't forget the name of it it would really help us out and it'll help us uhh ya know it would help our confidence and whatnot it would help us knowing that we're getting a wider reach and it'll help more people find this and hopefully it'll help more people learn more about polyamory because that's what this whole thing is about so yeah that's enough for the formal meeting portion of this and I think that's actually  about all the time we have today so uhh have a nice holiday and remember don't date you're dad's best friend

[Sophie]: [Mara]: and don't date you're best friends dad

[Sophie]: see you next time folks

["Good old fashioned lover boy" by Queen plays]

[Announcer]: This show was part of the trans podcaster visibility initiative

[End transcript]

#polysaturation #polyamradio #polyam #polyamory #queer #trans #transcript #ep4

[polyamradiotranscripts]

Ep.3 Relationship Anarchy

polyAM Radio Episode Three-Relationship Anarchy

[Begin Transcript]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody and welcome to polyam radio the best show on the internet about polyamory that weird relationship thing you do with lots of other people

["Crazy little thing called love" by Queen plays]

[Sophie]: Hello and welcome to polyam radio my name is Sophie Last-name-redacted

[Mara]: and I'm Mara Fake-last-name

[Sophie]: welcome to our third episode and this week we're going to be talking about relationship anarchy

[Mara]:[yells] anarchy!

[Sophie]: [laughs]

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: uh, so

[Sophie]: [Mara]: [laugh]

[Mara]: I'm sorry, I couldn't not, I had to I had to

[Sophie]: yeah I uh

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: I uh, I don't wanna mislead you, I feel good about that joke but you should feel bad about that joke

[Mara]: oh yeah definitley

[Sophie]: okay alright

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: um, so [laughs] like I said we're going to be talking about relationship anarchy which can be a bit of a hairy subject because not everyone who's poly, uh pardon me, not everyone who's polyam practices relationship anarchy and some people have some strong opinions on it, some people think it's the one true way and some people like us practice a blend of it

[Mara]: uh and just to remind you of our pronouns again

[Sophie]: oh shit I forgot that

[Mara]: this is Mara's voice, I use they them pronouns  

[Sophie]: and I'm Sophie I use she hers, so Mara what is relationship anarchy tell me about it

[Mara]: uh yeah so relationship anarchy is a different way of relating to people um instead of saying oh we, we are boyfriend and girlfriend or girlfriend and girlfriend or boyfriend and boyfriend or enbyfriend and enbyfriend or whatever uh and having that have its own set of rules and expectations um this is just a way of letting your relationship with a person flow and letting it just be what it is let it become what it is instead of um just like no we're dating so you have to act this certain way or like we have to move up this relationship escalator in a certain way, ya know we have to move from dating to engaged to married because all relationships have to end in marriage

[Sophie]: I know all mine do

[Mara]: [laughs] umm and and one of the fun things I feel about relationship anarchy is there are often no titles for your partners, there's not really a status, ya know, Sophie's my fiancee but that's because we became engaged because we've been together for a really long time and we like each other a lot and we kinda wanna legally say, ya know, hey if you leave me I get half your shit

[Sophie]: well and we'll get into [laughs] yeah that's what it's really about

[Mara]: totally totally sorry I just want half your shit, I don't care about you

[Sophie]: umm, you already have half my shit

[Sophie]: [Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: I'm convinced that that's what happens to everything that I lose, I think Mara just takes it and hides it in a room

[Mara]: I just have a little dragon horde, actually of all of Sophie's lost things

[Sophie]: yeah all my, every single one of my socks, pretty much

[Mara]: oh yeah no, it's a pretty smelly pile

[Sophie]: um most of the earbuds and pens I've ever known, yeah most of the pens I've ever owned

[Mara]: [laughs] couple a baby teeth, like, ya know, the usual stuff

[Sophie]: jeez, wow gettin dark here

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: umm that's my fiancee they collect baby teeth

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: um, so, let me ask you another question, it sounds like, ya know, this relationship style where instead of just saying, ya know, well this is my boyfriend saying, this is--Ted

[Mara]: [laughs] yeah yeah, this is Ted

[Sophie]: this is Craig-orry, uhh

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: and uh I don't want to mislead the audience, I , I, I don't now nor have I ever dated someone named Ted

[Mara]: or Craig-orry

[Sophie]: or Craig-orry, yeah but, lets say Craig-orry is your, uh, ya know, squeeze and uh, you just introduce them what seperates that from just friends, so is relationship anarchy just you have lots of friends and you sometimes have sex with them, or what does this mean

[Mara]: I, I mean I don't neccecarilly think it's like ahh yes some of my friends I have sex with but like you know how you have like your regular platonic friends who you don't neccecarilly want to go out and have a bunch of sex with, ya know, they're just like really good friends, ya know, there's no

[Sophie]: yeah I've got one of those

[Mara]: [laughs] oh yeah, one, a whole one, um, but you, ya know, you have theese friends that, there's there's no expectations there right there's no friendship ladder there's no friendship commitment ceremony that's not a thing right uhh as as far as I know, I don't know there are people [laughs]

[Sophie]: yeah, I um, uh huh sure, no commitment ceremony for friends

[Mara]: okay little miss borderline [laughs]

[Sophie]: just saying, I mean, it could make me feel more secure to have you, ya know, after a month or two of being my friend commit that you'll always be there and never leave me ever ever ever ever ever

[Mara]: [laughs] um but no I mean like, there, it's different from a friend that you like sometimes have sex with don't get me wrong, one of your partners might just be a friends with benifits type situation and that's that's a pretty cool thing that you can do but you might have somebody that you have like romantic feelings for but you're not like going steady you're not like in this really intense like, ya know, you have to call me every single day and you have to spend all of your free time with me, kind of like the really dumb comitments that new relationship energy can get you into uhh [laughs] ya know, it's um, yeah

[Sophie]: not that we're plugging our previous episode or anything

[Mara]: what [scoffs] would never

[Sophie]: yeah

[Mara]: ever talk about the what thirty minute episode we did

[Sophie]: thirty seven minutes

[Mara]: thirty seven minute episode we did on new relationship energy and the dumb shit it makes you do

[Sophie]: and the stuff that you should definitley go listen to

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: so with this relationship anarchy that I clearly know nothing about and I'm learning so much

[Mara]: [laughs] yeah okay

[Sophie]: uh theese aren't, theese aren't rhetorical questions or anythi-- or not rhetorical questions but theese aren't loaded questions or anything

[Mara]: leading questions

[Sophie]: yeah theese aren't leading questions or anything um, what uh what is the deliniation between, ya know, uh a friend and a partner

[Mara]: there's not, not in relationship anarchy really it's just kind of how you feel about the person if you have this general platonic love for a friend, ya know, cause we all love our friends but it's it's not in the same way that you would love somebody else neccecarilly it's just yeah you're a cool person and I like spending time with you but, ya know, at the end of the day I'm glad that I get to go home and not see your face whereas [laughs] with the with the with the more like romantically involved partner it's like I wanna sleep next to you ya know and it doesn't even neccecarilly have to be about sex or physical intimacy ya know it can just be like wow I want to spend the rest of my life with you

[Sophie]: that's fair that's fair um so basically when we're talking about relationship anarchy there's also this aspect of letting relationships kind of come and go and getting more or less comitted on their own instead of saying oh well we've been together for this long, ya know, uh and now, ya know, like third date gotta screw and, ya know, six months

[Mara]: is that when, is that when you're supposed to do it

[Sophie]: [Mara]: [questioning grunt]

[Sophie]: I'm not straight I don't know these things

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: so you know like, but or, six months if you're a lesbian oh gotta move in together uhh, ya know, and uh some of these other things, you just kind of let it happen and if at some point the relationship becomes more comitted that's great and you're there for that person even more and if at some point uh people take a little bit of a step back then thats fine the relationship isn't falling apart it isn't seen as ending people aren't  seen as running out the door it's just sometimes you have more time and more spoons for people and emotional labor and sometimes you have less and that's a very okay thing so ya know we wanna talk about a little bit uhh what it's like to be in a relationship that is very relationship anarchist uh because that's not an expeience everyone has and even if it's an experience you do have I find that a  lot of people us included don't do true true true relationship anarchy a lot of times we do variance of it uhh so we wanna talk a little bit about what adding an aspect of relationship anarchy to your life and to your relationships is going to feel like

[Mara]: yes so I think ya know kinda talking about that letting relationships come and go and letting relationships just be what they'll be I think umm is one of the really cool things umm, ya know, whenever I see Sophie have a new partner I'm pretty excited for her like Ohh there's this new person coming intto her life that's going to add to her life whereas like I think before we decided to practice relationship anarchy I would I would frequently become pretty upset, like, ya know, I'm not gonna lie like I would get jelous and I would be like oh, ya know, this person's gonna replace me right like we've talked about before how kind of the monogamous default makes you feel like, ya know, there's there's you're gonna be replaced and there's somebody out there who's better than you

[Sophie]: I do have a second family in New Jersy that I keep hidden

[Mara]: oh god damnit not again

[Sophie]: yeah

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: yep got a house in every state except this one where I live in a crummy apartment

[Mara]: I was gonna say what the fun you couldn't a done that here, I couldn't be the side dish

[Sophie]: fourty nine houses is rather expensive for an undergrad

[Mara]: [laughs] umm but, ya know, I would get jelous I would get a little bit upset, there's this new person you can, and it's like oh well you need to spend more time with me cause then that means you love me more uhh, yeah , ya know what this person is is different from me and Sophie loves this person because they have their own aspects they're their own person and that doesn't mean she loves me any less, ya know, it's like you have two best friends doesn't mean you like one friend more than the other they're probably pretty different people nobody is the same exact person so you get to kind of appriciate some the like the diversity that these people bring into your life and your partner's life you get to know cool metamors I think it's a lot of fun acutally

[Sophie]: I don't know if anybody had ever heard of this webcomic but it's a webcomic about polyamory and it's calle kimchi cuddles and it's just wonderful

[Mara]: highly recomend

[Sophie]: highly highly recomend it you haven't if somehow you're hearing this and you haven't discovered them yet cause they are much bigger than us seriously go check it out its' kimchi like the food cuddles uhh it's a wonderful wonderful web comic and just the other day it talked about some of the feelings that can arise when uhh one of you- when you gain a new metamor and  when your partner starts dating a new partner and, ya know, your partner starts dating someone who's really fancy and really put together and you're like oh my god, ya know, does he like that is that what he's into cause I'm just I'm kind of a sweatpants wearing sloppy piece of, ya know, dust on the couch

[Mara]: I've worn the same shirt three days in a row

[Sophie]: oh god, too real

[Mara]: [laughs] and I I think real quick we need to define what metamor is cause we're throwing around words without saying what they are a metamor is your partner partner

[Sophie]: yeah that you are not with specifically

[Mara]: shoutout to all my metamors

[Sophie]: yeah shoutout to all my metamors y'all are awesome

[Mara]:[laughs]

[Sophie]: well, there's one of you that I'm not crazy about so meh

[Mara]: [laughs] wow

[Sophie]: ya know sometimes partners don't always treat partners great

[Mara]: that's true thats true

[Sophie]: and you don't have to like all your metamors, you don't

[Mara]: that is uh that is uh also true you don't have to like anybody that's you're not obligated to like

[Sophie]: and he doesn't really like me, ya know, he doesn't like hearing about me and everything which is part of the reason I don't like him is because he likes to pretend I don't exist

[Mara]: yeah that's gross

[Sophie]: yeah, ya know, but I mean hey all you can do is work on it

[Mara]: so so that's kind of what relationship anarchy looks like from my perspective but I wanna hear, ya know, what does it look like for you what does it feel like to be you, ya know

[Sophie]: yeah for sure so I think for me personally oh and, ya know, I wanna preface this we do a variant of relationship anarchy because sometimes when we talk about true pure relationshp anarchy, ya know, we're talking about a lot of times the idea is that all of your partners live alone or not with another partner and there is umm how do I wanna say, ya know, a very casual ebb and flow uhh nature to the relationship and a lot of times, ya know, we talk about not having a bunch of big comittments with partner and that's not really my style partly because, ya know, I'm very mentally ill and insecure but also because I'm just a huge nester I love comittment I have monogamous friends, well, aquantinces let's be real who well I should say I do have monogamous friends but the people who say what I'm about to quote are not my friends, uhh but the people who are like well I'm monogamous cause I just really like comitment and I just really like this and it's like have you me me I love comittment

[Mara]: Sophie is not afraid of the comitment monster

[Sophie]: yeah I'm not afraid of the comitment monster fuckin bring it I like rode the comittment monster off into the sunset

[Mara]: [comittment monster growl]

[Sophie]: celebirty guest star

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: uhh but, ya know, with umm with relationship anarchy sometimes when we talk about in it's purest form that comittment sometimes isn't there because relationships have to be allowed to, ya know, kind of come and go and that doesn't mean that people who do relationship anarchy can't be comitted, we do relationship anarchy for the most part and we have very comitted relationships it's just often times those comittments involve slight deviations from relationship anarchy uh in some ways just because , ya know, I think it's really interesting sometimes when you talk to people about relationship anarachy their like that's not relationship anarachy it's like we're literally talking about a style of relationships whereby one of the core basis of it is that rules don't exist

[Mara]: the core basis is [yells] anarchy!

[Sophie]: yeah the core basis is that the rules aren't important and that the only rules that matter are what you make for yourself and what your partners make for themselves and you're sitting here telling me that I'm not doing it how it's supposed to be done cause I'm not following rules that  you made it just makes no sense

[Mara]: right that a little antithetical

[Sophie]: yeah a little bit

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: umm so that's my little preamble but I guess for me a lot of times it's really useful because , ya know, I have partners that, ya know, like you well I mean you specifically who I see everyday because I live with I wake up next to it's kinda hard not to see ya I would have to put a lot of effort into making that happen

[Mara]: I  would take you to the optomatrist right a way honestly

[Sophie]: [laughs]

[Mara]: I'd be really concerned

[Sophie]: Aha can't see you got it

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: it's and eye joke uh but [laughs], ya know, I have other partners who I will go several days without talking to uhh even partners who I'm in fairly comitted relationships with and that's not a problem because we don't have this aspect of like well you need to talk to me and that's a rule because we're dating I also have partners that I have gone long periods of time without seeing or going on a date on and we just have this very very casul relationship where sometimes honestly it doesn't feel like we're together and that's okay so little bit for me I guess it feels like every relationship being unique and every relationship having its own rules and my other reltionships not really being uhh effected by that and we're gonna talk about this later so basically results in very tailored relationship but like I said we're gonna talk about this part later basically the only comittments I have and the only I have and the only comittments that people have to me are very deliberate things that they have sought out and they actively persue, nobody is in my life who doesn't want to be and nobody has comittments to me who doesn't want to and that's actually a very good feeling but it can be very difficult to reconcile somimes

[Mara]: well and nobody has to feel the comittment monster that way it's not coming to get them

[Sophie]: right they're actively seeking out that comittment monster and putting a fucking saddle on it and riding it off into the sunset

[Mara]: yeah ride your comittment monster

[Sophie]: that's like a mountain dew slogo it's like ride the whale

[Mara]: a slogo

[Sophie]: a slogo, is that what I said, a mountain dew logo, err slogan

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: wow i really doubbled down on that mistake uhh a mountain dew logo it's like instead of like ride the whale or something it's like ride the comittment mosnter

[Mara]: [commitment monster growl]

[Sophie]: yeah uhh

[Mara]: [laughs] that is the call of the comitment monster

[Sophie]: yeah honestly, anyone who hadn't heard our first episode is gonna be real confused by this

[Mara]: go back and listen to it that's what I'm saying

[Sophie]: what are you doing you're listening to it in the wrong order

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: so umm what are, ya know, we talk about our own style of relationship anarchy and that's great but from a far more general standpoint when we're comparing relationship anarchy to, ya know, some other styles of relationships nothings perfect everything's got some pros and cons, lets move through this a little bit what are some pros of relationship anarchy mara

[Mara]: yeah so I'm an authenticity slut umm I really like I like being authentic I hate being around people who i feel like aren't being real with me

[Sophie]: I thought you were just authentically a slut

[Mara]: that too [laughs] I'm a proud slut but, ya know, it's this very authentic way of of being with people I get  to umm be with somebody without fear expectations, ya know, I don't have somebody, ya know, like oh well if you have sex with this person you have to ask me first, oh great, in the middle of the moment when things are getting hot and heavy I'm supposed to call you up and say is it okay if I have sex, that's just that's antithetical and and not and like, ya know, I'm guilty of imposing that rule like I very early on in our relationship I was definitley guilty of imposing that rule on Sophie, it was shitty and horrible of me

[Sophie]: [unitelligable] keep in mind, ya know, like this wasn't something that Mara you have to do this, we both did it and we both thought it was right and okay and lots of things, ya know, uh I've mentioned before on this program we've been in a relationship since we were teenagers since we were in high school actually so we did lots of dumb things and lots of foolish things I should say and, ya know, uh I don't wanna set this up as like, ya know, I was trying to lead us towards this glorious reality of relationship anarchy and Mara was like pulling me back on a chain

[Mara]: actually I'm pretty sure I'm the one who introduced the concept of relationship anarchy to us

[Sophie]: well you do more reading online you're more, ya know,

[Mara]: I do a lot of research, I'm really cool guys

[Sophie]: yeah Mara's very studious and very into reserach and stuff like that and I just kinda beat my head against the wall until things work

[Mara]: she thrusts her fists against the posts and still insists she sees a ghost

[Sophie]: what

[Mara]: she thrusts her fists against the posts and still insists she sees a ghost

[Sophie]: what the fuck are you talking about

[Mara]: it's an old tounge twister don't worry about it

[Sophie]: okay

[Mara]: I'm a dorky theater kid, amidst the mist and fiercest frost, no nevermind I'm not going to go into all of that

[Sophie]: yeah please don't

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: uhhh so authenticity is excellent also I feel like relationship anarchy doesn't place importance on different partners the way like a heirarchy does, it doesn't put the pressure on you of being a primary partner and it also doesn't put like the kind of perhaps compettitive aspect of trying to get to that space

[Mara]: mhmmm

[Sophie]: and it doesn't uhh also, ya know, kind of have that shitty feeling of being like really im fifth in line

[Mara]: I'm secondary like

[Sophie]: yeah or fucking quartanary I'm fourth in line what the fuck

[Mara]: right

[Sophie]: Ya know how is that supposed to make me feel

[Mara]: well and I think

[Sophie]: I'm fourth most important that's the bottom of the totem pole

[Mara]: right and there might be terms in relationship anarchy like, a nesting partner for example like Sophie and I would be nesting partners, we live together and we might choose to have another nesting partner, that person wouldn't be, ya know, secondary that's just another nesting partner I have two nesting partners and that's pretty cool

[Sophie]: well and, ya know, the real lproblem to me comes from the real problem with heirarchys to me comes from if certain partners move up the ladder if somebody becomes a nesting partner and becomes a secondary well then the old secondary becomes a tertiary now that's a shitty feeling

[Mara]: well yeah I just why would you say, ya know, oh I'm going to place this one person's needs and wants and desires higher than anybody elses I just I don't understand that really, oh I can't imagine, ya know, looking at Sophie and being like, I'm the most important and I did that at one point I know I did but now it just kinda seems chidish and ridiculous to me um and, ya know what not to not to shit on people in heirarchical relationships there are some people that it just does work better for and that's how they wanna do things but like for me personally , ya know, having, being in a heirarchical structure really fucked me up and it just wasn't great for my mental and emotional health personally

[Sophie]: yeah there's very few people that I can think of that are in heirarchical structures taht don't currently have problems in their relationships that we are talking about right now like certain partners feel undervalued like what if your primary partner feels like your secondary partner is making a move nascar style and trying to pass them, ya know, that's gonna get real ugly real fast

[Mara]: for sure

[Sophie]: wanna talk about not liking your metamor there ya fucking go folks

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: truly , ya know, that's going to create a real hostile work enviroment well not a work enviroment a real hostile home enviroment especially if you all live together so I uh I mean when we talk about, ya know, like I I really don't I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who are in heirarchical relationships who are sitting there going meaahhhh when I say this but I'm not saying healthy and awesome relationships don't exist out there like this I'm just saying of all the people I know who are in heirarchical relationships they all have some even minor problems that are akin to the ones we're talking about that's all I'm saying

[Mara]: for sure

[Sophie]: well, ya know, we have problems in our relationship because of relationship anarchy I'm  not trying to say that we're perfect and they need work and everything is bullshit and, ya know, that's not what I'm saying

[Mara]: there's no one true way

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely

[Mara]: well I and we talked earlier about saddling your comittment monster, umm, you get to you get to actively choose to be comitted to somebody and what that looks like too, ya know, it's not ohh we've been together for two years it's time to start talking about engagement like some people don't want to legally tie their life to someboy else which like ya no more power to you

[Sophie]: well and it's also real hard what if you're already engaged to somebody else or what if you're married to someone else that's not something you can legally do then again

[Mara]: yeah no you can't be married to two people which, weird

[Sophie]: which is bullshit by the way

[Mara]: but, ya know, it's not about oh I've been with you for this long and I think I want to spend time with you really if you wanted to uhaul with somebody in relationship anarchy that would be a great way to do it umm

[Sophie]: gotta do a lemony snikket style cut here, Uhauling is a verb which here means being a lesbian and moving in after three weeks

[Mara]: [laughs] umm but, ya know, I I choose to be with you for the rest of my life or I choose to, ya know what maybe I'm not going to live with you but I'm going to live in the same area as you and I am going to be a frequent part of your life and a frequent part of your childrens life, ya know, I'm just I'm going to make an effort to be there but I won't always be there

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely I have some partners right now who are considering relocating and uhh, ya know, not at this moment but a few years in the future when we end up moving and uhh, ya know, we're having conversations about okay well do we wanna all live in the same house maybe not we all kinda like our space how about, ya know, what if we do we wanna just all live in the same municipality and live really close and have a spare room that we can stay the night in or whatever uhh, ya know, there's all, ya know, good things uhh about this kinda communication

[Mara]: yeah definitley umm well another thing too I think that's really awesome about relationship anarachy is you can move past couples privilge and couples privilge is umm, ya know, Sophie and I could technically have a lot of couples privilge oh we've been together this is our apartment and you can't sleep with partners in my be- in our bed,

[Sophie]: we used to have that

[Mara]: uh huh and it was bullshit it was bad and I feel like relationship anarchy really helped us move past it ya know it it's not only a good thing for  us but it's a good thing for our other partner

[Sophie]: well yeah and it just gets in the way of shit like it makes you feel bad as another partner, ya know, being told like oh we can't have sex in, ya know, this bed because this other partner and it's like what am I gross do I stink like

[Mara]: well and it just takes away somebody elses agency and sombody elses choice, ya know, if somebody if one of Sophie's partners came over here and wanted to have sex and I still had this stupid hangup about it being our bed Sophie would have to be like no we can't do this here we have to go somewhere else and that's taking away two people's agency

[Sophie]: which lemme tell you when I had a partner who still lived with her parents

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: I gotta say that rule was in place and man did it make life difficult cause her grandmother lived with her too and people would be like knocking on the door we were quiet and everthing but people would be like knocking on the door and it's like fuck you have got to be jokin, ya know, and it's like quick put on a shirt put on a blanket and eventually they knew we were having sex it was fine we were adults it wasn't like diallowed or anything but it was just like

[Mara]: a little weird

[Sophie]: well it felt I felt llike a weinie I'm an ault I've got my own apartment I've got this thing I've got my own bed why can't I, ya know, do whatever the fuck I want in it, but I didn't wanna be rude and that was a hangup you had and to be fair that was a hangup that I also had I didn't want you having sex with people in that bed either cause I had insecurities too, I don't wanna make it seem like this was all Mara being afraid of x w y I had plenty of hangups too we're both damaged people and that's just how it is

[Mara]: yeah, yeah isn't that like the queer experience though

[Sophie]: yeah that's the mentally ill queer experience, there's a lotta pros to this right, what about some cons what are some drawbacks of doing it this way, ya know, cause so far this sounds like oh man jeez oh your relationships we figured it out Mara

[Mara]: yeah

[Sophie]: yeah fuck

[Mara]: we found the fountain of youth

[Sophie]: folks we solved it like we solved relationships

[Mara]: umm so where the fuck are the rules Sophie how do I do this uhh

[Sophie]: how can we have fun if there aren't any rules

[Mara]: I'm very type a individual, where the fuck are the rules, uhh, ya know, if if you're trying to figure out how to restructure an existing relationship there's not a how to guide on being relationship anarchists because it's it's [yells] anarchy, ya know, it's not

[Sophie]: well and it's hard to start out as a relationship anarchist becdause it's hard to talk to new people and be like listen I do this thing called relationship anarachy etc etc but it's even harder to convert a preexisting relationship from either monogmany or tierd heirarchy polyamory to relationship anarchy that's real hard to do

[Mara]: there are no cultural scripts for this and like there are very few models you can go online and find plenty of relationship anarachists but there's nobody that you'll be able to see them in action like, ya know, and taking notes and watching them in the field with binoculous

[Sophie]: please don't watch relationship anarchists with binoculous

[Mara]: I mean not without their consent maybe they're exhibitionists

[Sophie]: [crosstalk]. . .  they'll stampeede it's real bad

[Mara]: yeah yeah that's true that's true always alway talk to your relationship anarchists

[Sophie]: I think that's how Mufasa died in Lion King, stampeeding realtionship anarchists

[Mara]: [laughs] too soon Sophie too soon, uhh I don't don't tell me how many years ago that movie was revealed

[Sophie]: yeah don't fuckin tweet at us

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: like I love this show but there was a little joke about that ancient movie like fuck off

[Mara]: [laughs] umm yeah but there's there's no there's not a script for it you kinda haf-ta do it on your own you can ask people questions about it but you're gonna be figuring out what you want it to look like for you

[Sophie]: yeah that's fair I think uhh, ya know, it's also uhh difficult I think to explain to people who wanna know if you're like official with a certain partner, ya know, we have this joke, ya know, back in high school everybody said this and we still joke about it, ya know, are you facebook official it's like I'm facebook offical with one of my like, how many partners do I have right now like five or seven or something like some stupid amount of partners, ya know, like uhh I get to be facebook offical with one of them and

[Mara]: right

[Sophie]: and, ya know, whatever to that maybe fix that facebook thanks, umm, ya know, and while you're at it while we're fixing things can you not like fuck with trans kids profile and can you get the nazis off the internet that would be great too

[Mara]: yeah

[Sophie]: just while we're fixing things

[Mara]: priorities

[Sophie]: yeah yeah probably do the nazi thing first for me that would be appriciated

[Mara]: yeah ya know

[Sophie]: so uhh but it can be difficult when if you're trying not to put labels on it it's kinda like trying to raise a kid non-binary everyones like oh okay okay I get you're trying not to do this whole comittment thing or I get you're trying not to do this whole label thing but like where ya at

[Mara]: what are you really

[Sophie]: yeah what are you really at and it's like you fuck will ya stop it, I'm not do- I don't know I don't have an answer we're not doing that, not doing the whole gender thing they're six let them be six they're dressed up like a caterpillar leave them alone

[Mara]: they're a caterpillar fuck you

[Sophie]: yeah what's it really it's a caterpillar it's crawling on the floor it's beautiful fuckin miracle of evolution umm [laughs] so also I think relationship anarchy just as a con umm and I don't really see this as a con I guess because I view communication as a good thing but it's more rigourous in terms of the amount of communication that it requires, you just you have to be more dilligent especially early on with talking about your feelings and talking about your needs and desires and stuff like that it is, ya know, if you want all of those good good pros you've gotta do the work up front with creating a good foundation

[Mara]: for sure

[Sophie]: otherwise everything crumbles

[Mara]: you gotta commmuuunnniiiccaaatteee [drawn out]

[Sophie]: gotta commmuuunnniiiccaaatteee [drawn out] umm and also, ya know, we've talked about this a little bit but it can be difficult to blend to find commitment into relationship anarchy, ya know, Mara and I for the most part are relationship anarchists, we're also engaged, the reason we're engaged and not just in a state of relationship anarchy is because we want kids

[Mara]: well and I wanna take half her shit legall

[Sophie]: wanna take half the shit yes

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: but also

[Mara]: need to increase my horde

[Sophie]: yeah umm I uhh listen I got news for ya I think your horde is more than half my shit but whatever uhh [laughs] ya know, so uhh [laughs]

[Mara]: yeah whenever you ask me to find shit I'm actually just producing it from my horde sorry not sorry that's the pile of clothes in the middle of the bedroom floor

[Sophie]: before I was woke uhh back when I was a teenager and I was a horrible human being I was a huge Geore Carlin fan and he had a theory about lost things whereby there's a giant pile that exists on like a seperate plane of existence and that when you loose something it immidiately goes to the pile and when you find something it teleports in that instant back from the pile and  you found it and that that's what heavan is it's all your lost shit

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: ya know I think that was one of his more innocuous things he said certainly not as uhh horrible as some of the things he said about  minority groups and things like that but, ya know, I don't really wanna get into that I'm not a fangirl anymore we can leave it alone

[Mara]:[laughs]

[Sophie]: another thing not to tweet at me about he's awful not defending him he's dead lets move on

[Mara]: yeah

[Sophie]: umm, ya know, but it can be difficult to blend that sometimes and again you can do it but it requires more communication

[Mara]: mhmm

[Sophie]: uhh it requires more communication and to say okay we don't have rules and we want commitment there aren't like you said there's not a playbook for this what is that comittment gonna look like what do you wanna be comitted in what do you not wanna be comitted in because you don't just go from being a relationship anarchist suddenly be like oh we're just gonnna be a normal couple we're just gonna be a normal couple and have all that shit like that's not how that works folks come on you know that

[Mara]: just talk to your partner for fucks sake people

[Sophie]: right yeah now we wanted to talk a little about why we practice our varient of it and I know Mara you had some stuff you wanted to say about that so why don't you do that now

[Mara]: yeah umm so we initially started off as a uhh monogamous couple, ya know, we were umm comitted and like we decided that oh yeah polyamory that's gonna work better for us but it was this very like regulated thing uhh we were very much like ohh we uhh, ya know, you can have sex with other people but you need to ask me first uh , ya know, for the bullshit reason of, orr hiding behind kinda the guise of like ohh well it's just sexual health umm

[Sophie]: well and to be fair I have partner that's immunocompromised and I do discuss with that partner when I have sex with new people and I update just for, ya know, their own anxiety and whatnot so if you have a partner that has a legitimate health issue or something like that where their very concerned about something I mean catching any disease pretty much could actually kill them, ya know, that's that's different

[Mara]: that's completely different, for me it was just bullshit, ya know, umm

[Sophie]: well cause we were using protection and things anyway we were already taking these precautions

[Mara]: umm but there was this relationship that Sophie had been in and I was really upset like constantly we were communicating very poorly and it wasn't going very well umm and I was like hey look you aren't following these rules that I've set for you which like those were unfair rules like, ya know, I acknowledge that hey I'm putting these really unfair sanctions on you and your parter umm, ya know,

[Sophie]: well and there's actually something with borderline personality disorder maybe you remember what it's called but it's like it's basically kind of like it it's almost like and object permenace problem with partner where it's like once someone's out of sigh they're a little bit out of mind where I would be in the heat of the moment with a partner or whatever  and the thought of, cause Mara would say things to me like how do you think this makes me feel because I would come home and be like ohh we fooled around a little bit or oh I saw so-and-so today and we spent time together and we didn't talk about that and Mara would be like well how do you think that makes me feel  and I hadn't considered it until that moment because I wasn't thinking about Mara I was thinking about the person that I was spending time with and enjoying myself with and part of that is that ya know you could say it's selfishness but the reality is it's uh it is a symptom of a personality disorder I have also I think that's a realtively common thing, you're not, ya know, when you're going out drinking at night you're not thinking boy this is really disapointing my mother right now

[Mara]:[laughs]

[Sophie]: you're not thinking about people who aren't there so I think it's a common problem

[Mara]: for sure no but, ya know, I was finally like hey here's this thing I think we need to start doing I need to start checking myself with this, ya know, I need to stop putting these unfair sanctions on you and your partner this isn't right this isn't fair and it's making me feel like crap because I'm setting these expectations I'm the one kind of upsetting myself so I like we need to move our relationship in this direction where we just kind of let our relationships be what they are and we're not, ya know, putting rules and sanctions on each other and on our partners

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely and, ya know, I think that, ya know, when we talk about this and everything it's important to remember that part of the reason this works very well for us is because of our personalities as individuals we're not perfect people and we're not always perfect at communicating and stuff like that

[Mara]: yeah

[Sophie]: so this is something that works very well because, ya know, we communicate very well but sometimes in the heat of the moment or whatever uhh you, ya know, in that moment where it's like ahh shit I was supposed to ask before doing this or something like that and it also takes out some of the guess work cause it's like okay well I wanna kiss this person because I'm in love with them is that something I have to fucking ask for that seems weird

[Mara]: right

[Sophie]: where am I drawing the line what is sex what are we calling sexual interactions and things like that why are we putting this importance on sex in this way uhh the whole thing just was weird to be honest in hindsight although at the time it seemed perfect logical

[Mara]: right well it was the cultural script we'd been given

[Sophie]: yeah, that's a good point yeah,hey do you hear that

[buzzing siren sound, grows louder]

[Mara]: I do

[Sophie]: yeah I think ohh, I think we've got a polly folly

[Mara]: a polly folly

[Sophie]: I think we've got a polly folly

[Mara]: [gasp]

[siren stops]

[Sophie]: our first ever polly folly

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: uh soo, oh god I hope I was able to edit that in right otherwise that I uhh

[Mara]: that'll just be us being really awkward

[Sophie]: yeah there's hopefully there was a very carefully and skillfully edited siren kind of klaxon noise in there if it's shitty I aplogize, uhh but, ya know, live and learn uhh we wanna talk about polly follies though which is basically a common way that people fuck up in polyamory

[Mara]: everybody does it

[Sophie]: everybody does it

[Mara]: everybody poops everybody fucks up poly

[Sophie]: everybody fucks up poly everybody poops

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: hopefully you're not fucking up poly by pooping

[Mara]: unless you're into that, I don't know

[Sophie]: well hopefully it's not disrupting your relationship, ya know, even if you're like, ya know, scats not my thing but even if it was my thing I wouldn't really want it to be interrupting my relationship that that seems gross

[Mara]: unideal

[Sophie]: yeah umm so one of the things that people can sometimes mess up when they talk about relationship anarchy and when they first start doing relationship anarchy is they can use a lack of expectaions in the relationship as and excuse to neglect the needs of their partner and that gets messy basically the lack of expectaions in the relationship just means and again you need to communicate more not less you gotta

[Sophie]: [Mara]: commmuuunnniiiccaaatteee [drawn out, together]

[Sophie]: uhh you have to make your own expectaions based on your individual need it doesn't work to just pretend that people don't have needs it doesn't work to just-

[Mara]: wait, other people have needs

[Sophie]: other people have need Mara

[Mara]: [gasp]

[Sophie]: can you believe it folks for five and a half years I've been trying to get this through

[Mara]: my my my entire world perception has just shifted oh my gosh

[Sophie]: yeah that acutally that was a whole this podcast was just a trojan horse to get you to realize that we're not making anymore of these episodes folks this is this was it

[Mara]: don't look this horse in the mouth folks

[Sophie]: yeah yeah

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: boy that would be an interesting saying cause I know it's don't look a gift horse in the mouth but just don't look this horse in the mouth saying that to someone like, why what's in it's mouth [laughs] like yikes

[Mara]: bees

[Sophie]: bees yeah [laughs] don't look in it's mouth theres bees in there

[Mara]: [laughs] umm

[Sophie]: they're endagered leave em alone, so that's a polly folly folks don't pretend that people don't have needs, alright I think thats about all the time we have for this week folks and remember

[Sophie]: [Mara]: don't date your best friend's dad and don't date your dad's best friend

[Sophie]: see ya next time folks

["Good old fashioned lover boy" by Queen plays]

[Announcer]: This show was part of the trans podcaster visibility initiative

[End transcript]

#polyam #polyamradio #ep3 #transcript #relationship anarchy #queer #trans #relationships #lgbt+

[polyamradiotranscripts]

Ep. 2 Q&A #1

PolyAM Radio EP.2 Q&A #1

[Begin Transcript]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody and welcome to polyam radio the best show on the internet about polyamory that weird relationship thing you do with lots of other people

["Crazy little thing called love" by Queen plays]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody, welcome, my name is Sophie Last-name-redacted'

[Mara]: and I'm Mara Fake-last-name

[Sophie]: This is the second episode of our podcast about polyamory polyam radio

[Mara]: just to remind you again of our pronouns I'm Mara, uh here's my voice and I use they them their pronouns

[Sophie]: I'm Sophie I use she her her's, this episode is gonna be a little bit different than our previous one we're trying out something new, most of our episodes will be like last episode so if you listened to the first episode and you really loved it, don't worry that's how most of them are gonna be, us talking about a topic and trying to give our perspective trying to give some good advice this episode however is something that we wanted to try for a while basically the idea behind it is that we take questions that y'all have sent us and do our best to give you some advice

[Mara]: or, try

[Sophie]: yeah or try, ya know we're uh, I wanna make one thing clear quick, we're speaking from our own perspective here, we are speaking from our experience I don't want to set this up as something that's going to be well ya know I heard ya know Miss Last-name-redacted and Mx. Fake-last-name talking about  this and they told me to do it and my whole life came tubmling down and I'm blaming you now, this is now something that if you think something we say isn't going to work for you or is a bad idea you should not do it then, every situation with relationships has a lot of nuance to it, every situation has it's own, ya know, people involved and different things about it so, I don't want to say our advice should never be taken because, we're going to be doing our best to give good advice

[Mara]: but we're not experts

[Sophie]: and our advice should never be taken blindly, that's the main thing that I want to go here and if you take our advice and the situation ends poorly, I'm really sorry that that happened, but I want to make clear that this is your disclaimer that is on you that is not on us, we are doing our best to take this seriously and ya know hopefully you never need advice hopefully everything is always hunky dory, most people don't get through life that way, so we are going to, uh, as you may have guessed just from the fact that our podcast is so new, we don't have a ton of people who have sent in questions so what I'm gonna do is I'm going to take the people that have sent in questions, if you're lookin' to send in questions you can send them to our twitter which is @PolyAM_radio and you can tweet at us, or if you have a problem that is longer than a hundred and forty characters you can email us at our email which is, uh I sound like Perd Haply at our email which is

[Mara]: an email

[Sophie]: an email that I'm going to give to you, right now [email protected] and you can explain your situation fully there, we have a habit of changing people's names and everything and especially not giving out last names so

[Mara]: if you couldn't tell

[Sophie]: yeah if you couldn't tell, all those people CCAP-ing me, uh, to find out what kind of person they were listening to googling last-name-redacted, I'm sure you'd find a lot of interesting things if you googled last-name-redacted just for your saftey and ours we think it's best ya know we're talking about unconventional relationship styles here, not everybody is out to everybody they meet and we don't like to force people out of the closet so you can give us your last name, that's not realy information we want or need, and we won't share it, if you want your first name changed too, that's fine just tell us and we wil change your first name and no one will ever know that it's not you, we also might come up with a fun name for your question like beguiled in brooklyn or something like that because that's generally how advice shows in radio works basically what I have here is a couple questions that were sent in to our email and then a couple questions that I went on yahoo answers and found that people were talking about polyamory uh yahoo answers is the worst platform in the world

[Mara]: it is trash pit it is the arm pit of the internet

[Sophie]: yeah it's the armpit of the world but I was inspired by the Mcelroy brothers and their wonderfully horrible, well their podcast is wonderful the medium they use to do it a lot of times is yahoo answers which is terrible, and I think they would agree with me when I say that but basically we wanted to see what people were talking about on the internet and give our perspective on it, so we're going to hop right into it, first one is yahoo answers user ficus, who asks, isn't polyamory kind of awkward, You might be fine with meeting your wife's boyfriend and the three of you having a coffee together but at a certain point they will gaze into each other's eyes and a sort of intimacy will pass between them and you'll know you're witnessing an intimacy that you cannot be a part of and yet that's your wife, how can you be locked out of a deep part of her emotional experience like that, it's between her and him, you can't share it and indeed you wouldn't want to because you don't wanna get all up close and personal with him the nature of- the nature of romance is to be private, none of her other relationships are like that, she's close to her father, but you can be privy to that emotional experience, she shares here feelings about her family with you quite freely, you're not locked out of that deep part of her soul, her familial closeness isn't private but what she shares with her boyfriend is quite private and her dating him means shes not sharing as much of herself with you and again that's yahoo answers user ficus

[Mara]: I um, my my initial reaction to this is are you sure you didn't go to like literotica.com and like find a cuckholding fantasy story because like holy shit dude that's what this sounds like

[Sophie]: why, are, are you getting hot and bothered? cuz we can go

[Mara]: oh yes, oh baby oh ahh no I thi-

[Sophie]: suprise this just turned into a porn podcast

[Mara]: I, just, [emphatically] at a certain point they will gaze into eachothers eyes  and a sort of intimacy will pass between them and you'll know you're witnessing an intimacy that you cannot be a part of and yet, that's your wife

[Sophie]: yeah it does sound, fairly dramatized

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: it's really interesting because, uh I think that, ya know there's a couple big problems here that I want to point out one, and and ya know or I should say there's a couple big things because not all of these are neccecarily problems especially the first one I'm gonna say which is that the author of this, uh, yahoo answer user ficus is obviously a straight male and a straight cis male at that and a lot of times what we see which straight white- well I shouldn't assume white, I'm just so used to saying the phrase straight white men like all in one but a lot of times with straigh cis men what we see if very uncomfortable with intimacy and very uncomfortable especially with intimacy around other men, typically you don't run into a lot of straight cis guys who are like, oh yeah I'm fine being close with other men I'll hug it out or whatever, I'll give 'em a kiss on the cheek but ya know that doesn't mean anything ya know like you don't see that much so there's a fear here as far as ,ya know, being intimate with another man I think, and even by proxy ya know which is is said by well you wouldn't want to be intimate with them so we're not dealing with a triad situation we're dealing with a V where two people are both dating the same person and not dating each other

[Mara]: and some people call that a hinge too we are a hinge

[Sophie]: oh yeah, I've never heard that before that's good but so

[Mara]: close that hinge, make it a triad [laughs]

[Sophie]: well ,ya know, you don't have to but  

[Mara]: no, no you don't

[Sophie]: it can be a whole lot of fun sometimes, we have a lot of fun in some triads we're a part of, also I think that the nature of romance is to be private I consider that ya know my romances and whatnot I don't know if i would, I don't know if private's the right word for them because to me private is like you're closing the door and you're not letting anyone else see in, to me the word for romance is personal

[Mara]: yeah

[Sophie]: in that it is something that is near and dear to my heart it's something that matters to me a lot and that,ya know, I wouldn't neccecarily want to just invite the whole world in but it's not neccecarily something that I wanna keep everyone out of and everybody's different,ya know, some people are more insecure and uh some people have a very good reason to be insecure especially if you got trauma or something like that I don't want to set up the the notion that being insecure is this inherently,ya know, that you're flawed because you're insecure uh that's not true at all but there's an insecurity about intimacy in romance here that I think is an issue that needs to be addressed too, and then also what I found qutie interesting about this is the very last clause of the sentence of the last sentence, which is, her dating him means shes not sharing as much of herself with you

[Mara]: oh I know that's just ugh

[Sophie]: yeah well we talk about, there's this theory about love that your love is a pie and that, or a pizza or anything

[Mara]: which like, delicious

[Sophie]: yeah delicious ooey gooey love

[Mara]: mhmmmmmm

[Sophie]: that just came out of the oven,ya know, when you put your love in an oven and they come out all gooey

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: and they stick to the bottom of the pan and you're like oh I should have sprayed my love with pam before I slid them in the hot space

[Mara]: should've greased them up

[Sophie]: yeah should a greased them up and lubed it all good but the nice thing is now the house smells like your partner who is just having a nice good good sauna experience

[Mara]: apparently

[Sophie]: yeah ostensibley at three hundred and fifty degrees

[Mara]: nice and crispy

[Sophie]: yeah, yeah, anyways love is not a pie love is a christmas gift you can give as many christmas gifts as you want as many christmas gifts as you have money to give uh and your christmas gifts you can only give as many as, or birthday gits at different times of the year or however you want to say it, I like christmas gifts uh holiday season gifts whatever you want to say, ya know, I can give as many gifts as I have resources to afford and the fact that I gave a, two people a gift I gave one person a watch and I gave one person a blanket doesn't mean that the value of that watch or blanket has diminished because I gave something to someone else each gift is unique, each gift is personal, and each gift is beautiful and love is a gift and it's a bottomless resource uh as long as you have, ya know, how do you want to say, spoons just to have relationships which in in this in this analogy would be money ya know to purchase the gifts or we were gonna talk about giving several hats or blankets or scarves as long as you have yarn to knit them or something like that you can keep giving gifts until you're out of yarn

[Mara]: well and I think this is an extrordinarily narrow view of uh what polyamory is like this is a very, I don't know if yahoo answers user ficus is in a polyamorous relationship and this is why they were prompted to uh ask this question but it's very much this, ya know, and it's just it's uh your wife, and she has a boyfriend and and and its, ya know, just that and I think that's that's just kind of a narrow view and a narrow way of looking at it because, that's not, in my experience what polyamory is, I mean there are people that do that but like Sophie has her partners I have my partners and we have partners that we share mutually between us just cuz like we we have similar taste in people that's who we've become after six-ish years together uh

[Sophie]: yeah my parents taught me to share my toys so

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: eventually we'll have to do an episode on BSDM to make that comment relevant

[Mara]: yeah right, I think we, we could probably skip that [laughs] but, ya know, I just it's between her and him you can't share in it it's like and why why not why don't you want to, I think there's so much like fear it's, ya know, the question is, isn't polyamory kind of awkward and like, I'm reading this question and I don't see like wow, this would be an awkward situation like I'm reading, this is a fear and insecurity, ya know, and what i- what is that dumb thing that middle schooler's like to say it's only awkward if you make it awkward uh [laughs]

[Sophie]: I guess I don't really have my finger on the pulse of what middle schooler's are saying

[Mara]: oh I don't know my friends and I always said that, I don't know maybe they say something different now-a-days

[Sophie]: it sounds like you were a super gay middle schooler

[Mara]: oh yeah, oh yeah very very repressed gay, that's a different story [laughs] I just I think like this really like there's this narrative of like, love is possesion  in our society, there's this idea that if you love a person you never let them go and just kinda like this gross like this is mine, not like it's like this is ours it's this is mine and like a person isn't a possesion

[Sophie]: Yeah, yeah you can't own a person in any sense of it, your relationship with them doesn't mean you own them any more than you own your best friend they're not, yours they're not something that sits on the shelf until you're ready to play with them I really like that you brought that up because actually if you do like a close read of this, ya know, it's it's all talking about your wife and isn't it and actually like I tried to do a decent reading of it and everything but a lot of times, ya know, there's some parts in here where the words are capitalized and everything and uh, ya know, it's that emotional experience that your wife is having and you're locked out of that deep part of her soul and ya know it's, it's, it's rediculous

[Mara]: well and I wonder if this person feels this way about their wife's friends are are you locked out of that deep part of her soul, no, no it's just because like you feel that a relationship is a possesion and not like kinda like a little baby flower that like you're taking care of you have to like nurture relationships you have to put time and energy into it but that's not like your flower that's a flower, that's there and it's and important aspect of your life like I'm not gonna pretend that my relationships aren't important aspects of my life they really are

[Sophie]: yeah I think that there's a big part of this question that is very, when I say self-centered I don't even mean it as a derrogatory thing I think it's self focused it is a looking at the potential of your wife to have a relationship as to how it would affect you and not as to how it would affect her the reality of  the situation is not to say that your feelings don't matter or shouldn't be taken into consideration or listened to but her other relationships don't actually affect you in really any way unless you get butt hurt about it

[Mara]: well unless there is some hurtful shit going on because sometimes

[Sophie]: different, different conversation though

[Mara]: yes

[Sophie]: that's a conversation about abuse and toxicity ya know this is a question about uh

[Mara]: new relationships even existing

[Sophie]: yeah exactly yeah this is a question about how can you not feel awkward of the fact that this partner that you have ownership of because there's a commitment and commitment equals ownership ostensibley how can it not be awkward to then share that possesion, and I think that that really breaks the question down in its biggest part I think that a lot of times when we talk about the institution of marriage there's a connotation of ownership uh both literally over history and and uh kind of, ya know, just uh, or I should say a just de facto more recently you know this idea that you're you're giving yourself to this person and everthing and the reality of the situation is that this relationship is something that you both are picking up together and lifting up over your heads and, ya know, working together to keep it in the air it is not an embodiment of either of you and if one of you at some point decides to set it down it is over but as long as both of you are interested and invested it'll keep, ya know, being held up in the air and it'll be good that doesn't mean that you have ownership over your, ya know, holding uh table up in the air buddy moving on to the next question yahoo answers user rico asks, why do people consider polyamory bad or wrong what is wrong with having multiple people in a consenting and loving relationships note, polyamory not polygamy and then there's an update, why do we as a culture, veiw polyamory as bad or wrong, ya know I think that we're not really gonna answer the original uh question here which is why do people consider polyamory bad or wrong which is they're dumb or they're close minded or rather they're stupid or they're close minded, rather what I wanna talk about is why do we as a culture view polyamory as bad or wrong and I feel like this is a very quick answer and I feel like what we were just talking about before leads into it very well, our culture, and you can tell me if you disagree with this although I don't think you do, our culture views love as ownership and possesion and if you love someone, like you said, you never let them go

[Mara]: mhmmmmmm

[Sophie]: and you're always holding on to them and they're yours and you're theirs we literally talk about romance as being possesion and we look at jelousy and possesiveness as things that are natural and even kind of positive because even though yeah they have bad effects

[Mara]: well he wouldn't be so angry if he didn't love you  [laughs]

[Sophie]: yeah it goes back to the whole pulling on your pig tails cuz he likes you thing it's really ridiculous and also we view it as something that is natural because oh well of course he's jelous that you're sleeping with someone else you're supposed to be just his or whatever, ya know, and it just gets to, ya know, when you try to look at love through the perspective as I mentioned before as giving a gift, I think that most of these I don't know a single objection to polyamory that when you say, ya know, love is a gift and me giving it to someone else and me giving it to many people does't dimish the fact that I've given it to you I really don't know a single relationship and jelousy based argument about polyamory that hol- stands up to that I just don't

[Mara]: yeah no what it kinda comes down to is morality versus ethics, ya know morality is a very like religiously based kind of idea of what you're supposed to do and how you can have sex and who you can have sex with and what you can eat and all other sorts of things there are a lot of aspects of morality but I think a lot of the prominent uh religions in our society have these ideas about like about who you can and can't have sex with or relationships with or any of those sorts of things it's ya know and even if you don't neccecarily belong to those religions this is still the dominant ideology this is still what a lot of people around you believe even if you're not conciously choosing to like take part in that morality like you can still sub-conciously have similar ideals

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely, even if it's something that you are very conciously choosing to disagree with like we are, the reality is it's the world you live in and a lot of the people around you do think that so it's hard to not let it affect how you go through the world

[Mara]: alright let's move on to the next question yahoo answers user purple pants girl asks how do I bring up polyamory to my boyfriend for my boyfriend this is his first serious relationship don't worry we're not like sixteen or something and I wanna bring up the idea of a polyamorous relationship but I don't think that would be something that he would be interested in, it's just the thing is I wouldn't even know where to start that conversation does anyone have any ideas

[Sophie]: so with this one I think that the first thing we need to address is that you are definitley sixteen or something

[Mara]: right, like we wouldn't have thought that 'till you said it

[Sophie]: yeah, ya know, I think, ya know, if there's any teenagers out there listening to this uh who were going through the explicit tag because we do ocassionally swear and unfortunately I have to put us there but if there's any of you that were looking for something in the explicit tag and you're just a baby queer and everything here's a little advice when you tell people in their twenties and thirties and fourties that this is your first serious relationship they automatically assume that you're like twenty-one twenty-two that you haven't had a very commited relationship yet and that you are now working towards ending up in a place where I think a lot of people that, uh, although certainly not all people in our culture want to end up which is, ya know, commitment and and and the things that that entails, no one assumes that you're sixteen because serious relationship means a very different thing to a sixteen year old than it does to anyone else, ya know, the reality of the situation is you are not actually capable of having a truly serious relationship at sixteen because serious relationships end up in things like, ya know, potentially moving in together or getting a pet together like serious relationships not always and they don't have to but a lot of times end up in those things and you're not even at an age where you have the autonomy to do that so we weren't even worried about it 'till you brought it up purple pants girl

[Mara]: so I think I'd like to break down this question into a couple of different parts because there's there's a lot going on here so the first big thing that sticks out to me besides, ya know, don't worry we're not like sixteen or something which Sophie addressed uh I wanna bring up the idea of a polyamorous relationship but I don't think that would be something that he would be interested in is this, is this it's come up in conversation before,  are you making the assumption that since polyamory isn't the default and since monogamy is the default that, uh, he wouldn't be interested like I think you're kind of making a realy big assumption in your relationship and I think this is such a a serious relationship, ya know, this is something that you would have discussed at least a little bit

[Sophie]: yeah at the sam t-, yeah I I agree you don't neccecarily want to assume that your partner isn't going to be interested in this I think that's always the perception though and I don't think that this asker is wrong for maybe assuming that because I think a lot of people aren't really super interested in polyamory again because of the things we talked about they don't want to give up their idea of love as possesion, so let's, let's assume that because she said she doesn't think that that would be something that he would be interested in let's assume that they haven't talked with it so far and that she's working of the premise uh, ya know, cuz we can't give advice to, ya know, oh shit it's Dave well yeah I know Dave and he's

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: and he's been cheated on in the past so ya know there's gonna be that whole aspect like we don't know who this is so let's just assume that she doesn't know for sure and she's working off the assumption that because lots of people in our society view polyamory as a bad thing he wouldn't be interested in it how do you bring up a polyamory to a new partner cuz for me it's of then the firs-, whenever I start flirting with someone or whatever, it's usually one of the first things that I bring up it's like oh I've got other partners and I've got a fiancee and, ya know, I have a lizard

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: who is my child and, ya know, there's uh, it's not something that doesn't come up it' a lot like being trans for me it's something that I feel compelled to mention early on because I don't wanna have this moment, so I guess for me, my best advice for anyone listening, don't get yourself into this situation bring it up early on, uh, but, if you do find yourself in this situation how do you bring it up

[Mara]: well and that's interesting cuz I don't think it's actually a position I personally have ever been in, I've never not been in a relationship and had to, or like not been in a previous relationship before starting a new one so I don't neccecarily know if I can answer this one uh where it's like oh by the way dropping this pretty big bombshell on you about my identity I'm polyamorous, most of the people I'm with know that because I've been with Sophie forever and I probably met them through Sophie if we're being entirely honest [laughs] I'm kinda like a spone, I just hook my way into other people's relationships and it's just cuz I'm not a very outgoing person

[Sophie]: I uh, there's been multiple, there's been multiple occasions where Mara has been talking to me about people that they are now currently with

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: and have said, ya know, oh I realy like them or whatever and I say really, ya know, and and they're like well don't you think like don't you think they're cute or don't you think this or that and I'll be like yeah I think they're cute yeah sure but I didn't know you did because they keep it very under wraps

[Mara]: I play it close to the chest

[Sophie]: yeah yeah literally there's been several occasions where within two hours I go up to that person and say just so ya know Mara [clicks tounge] thinks you're real cute

[Mara]: and then I die of embarassment and tell Sophie that I'm leaving her [laughs]

[Sophie]: yeah, it happens ever time but with every single one of those people, you're now with them and they thought it was really cute and endearing that you were so shy and also keep in mind we've been together for, ya know before you fucking tweet at me and things like that we've been together almost six years, I wouldn't do it if it was something if it was a situation where I knew it wasn't gonna be okay like, ya know, this isn't like a breach of consent here like fuckin put away your ipads and shit

[Mara]: [laughs] I mean I'm not sure

[Sophie]: to me, how I would choose to answer that question I think or rather how I would choose to bring it up would I think the very first thing I would do would be to bring up a love triangle that everyone hates

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: and I'm just going to bring up the most famous love triangle, ya know, in popular media over the last ten years which I feel is Twilight I wanna preface this with the fact that my knowledge about Twilight is entirely tangential I know as much about it as your dad does

[Mara]:[laughs] I uh, I don't know I avidly read them in middle school but that's cuz I wasn't allowed to

[Sophie]: did you really

[Mara]: yeah

[Sophie]: oh, um, I never really read them uh I think I, I think I saw one of the movies but at the time I was more interested in the cis girl I was at the movies with than the movie itself so

[Mara]: that was kina your deal in high school

[Sophie]: yeah uh, that was

[Mara]: we went to see the, ah shit, hunger games together like the first movie and like you didn't watch the movie at all, uh [laughs]

[Sophie]: I, yeah guilty um but so basically I would say hey [unintelligable] find a way to bring up Twilight or something like that and just say like wasn't that just lazy writing with the love triangle

[Mara]: how do you bring up Twilight to a friend or loved one [laughs]

[Sophie]: or any, fuck, if you're, if you're watching uh

[Mara]: hey, remember this piece of trash in our in our pop culture

[Sophie]: um, what you have to do is you have to go get a napkin out of the trash and say look at this trash and hand it to them and they'll be like why are you having me look at this trash and you say cuz I'm going to have you look at another piece of trash and then bring out the Twilight movies

[Mara]: I I feel like Twilight is that thing that we just don't [whispering] talk about anymore

[Sophie]: let's get off Twilight

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: there's a movie called book of life that's very good and one of our Twitter uh one of our twitter followers kenway lights tweeted at me about it and said that um as far as famous monogamy fails, which is something we were talking about on twitter recently, basically the idea was name interactions in movies and situations in movies where there's like a weird love triangle thing going on and your favorite example of how it could be solved by polyamory and basically in this movie there are two boys and there's a girl and basically there's like the entity of life and the entity of death and basically they place bets on which one will be able to woo this litte girl, that's my memory of the movie if I'm wrong don't tweet at me it's irrelevant, it'a a very good movie you should go watch it, it doesn't matter in this moment you can bring up movies like that and just say, ya know what would have really messed up that whole bet what if she would have just dated both of them

[Mara]: [gasps]

[Sophie]: like what if she just would have

[Mara]: [whispering] scandelous

[Sophie]: dated both of them, and, ya know, and and they'll be like well that would be cheating or whatever and it's like oh but what if they were okay with it and what if they were all oh ya know okay with that and everything and, ya know, that's this thing, it's called polyamory have you heard of it, and that's a good way to bring it up and then be like I am polyamorous I like to have commited relationships with many people and that's a thing about me that I feel like you should know about and then I would segue immidiately, don't give them time to start to get defensive don't give them time to uh start to bombard you with questions yet immidiately bring up the love it like a gift thing immidiately bring that up and say, ya know, love isn't like a pizza where there's a finite number of slices and if you're really hungry you can have more than a piece or two and some people eat the whole pizza because they're really hungry but then there's none left for anybody else, that's not how it is, love is like a christmas gift you can give as many of them away as you want and the fact that you gave someone one doesn't, ya know, erode the fact that you gave a bigger one to someone else or something like that people are thankful for the gifts they have and that's just generally how this works, that's how I would handle it and then field the stupid questions that are not the best

[Mara]: and inevitably going to happen

[Sophie]: yeah it's inevitable, it's something that this person doesn't know about

[Mara]: this next question is from a listener, sexless in seattle, and it's about feeling left out of sex my partner and I are both polyamorous and we both have other partners lately he has been having sex with his other partner in excess which leaves him disinterested in being physical with me he's not someone who really has sex more than once a day so just having sex anyways isn't really an option, I know he doesn't owe me sex but given that we have historically had a sexual relationship before this change and there was no conversation about wanting to distance ourselves from sex with each other it's left me feeling unwanted what should I do [pause] talk to your partner [laughs]

[Sophie]: yeah, I would definitley talk to your partner about this there's always the chance that they won't be receptive but that is the first thing that you should try at least and

[Mara]: I mean straight up if you just say to your partner hey I'm feeling kind of unwanted like nobody wants to make their partner feel unwanted right

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely, ya know, we wanna preface some of this with just mentioning sex isn't neccecarily part of a healthy relationship and it shouldn't be the litmus test for if a relationship is good, ya know, obviously there are people who are asexual and are on that spectrum including things like demi-sexual gray-sexual stuff like that uh and there are people who aren't asexual who just aren't in the mood to have sex with you in particular and that's totally fine your partner doesn't owe you sex, that having been said, if you're in a relationship where something new that your partner is doing is making you feel unwanted thats a tricky situation too, so the first thing I would say I would agree with Mara, definitley talk to your partner, what should this person do if they have tried that or if they've talked to their partner and their partner is less than receptive about that

[Mara]: I mean I think this is kinda one of the awesome things about polyamory is outsourcing, uh ya know I don't think this is neccecarily a situation that could be fixed by that though cuz it sounds like it's about being with like this specific partner

[Sophie]: yeah for sure, do you wanna define outsourcing just in ca-

[Mara]: sure, ya, so outsourcing is I mean it's a lot what it sounds like like when a when a company is outsourcing jobs, they're going where they can get cheaper labor right, uh this is not about cheaper labor [laughs]

[Sophie]: could be, could be

[Mara]: this is um, for example, ya know, you might have a partner that doesn't enjoy sex you might just have like an emotional relationship with a person, but you might have another partner who really really really enjoys sex, and you might really really enjoy sex and you don't wanna not be with that partner that doesn't wanna have sex but like it's somebody else that you are able to kind of, ya know, have sex with and that's a brief, brief brief summary of what outsourcing is there can be all sorts of things that that looks like

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely and I think it would be good for us to do a full episode on outsourcing at some point

[Mara]: and I'm positive we will, you've shown me that you have plans for it

[Sophie]: [laughs]

[Mara]: but this doesn't realy seem like a situation where outsourcing would neccecarily fix things, I think like if this is specifically about your partner and you wanting more attention from your partner like I truly think that like talking to him should fix this like thats-

[Sophie]: yeah I agree this is a talking question, um, to me at least yeah this is a or pardon me not a talking question, this is an attention question, this is a question about a type of neglect, and again not neglect in the sense of you're not talking to me and you should talk to people you're in a relationship with this is not something that's owed but it is someth that, ya know, is being witheld

[Mara]: it's like cuddling

[Sophie]: yeah exactly

[Mara]: if you put this in terms of cuddling and, ya know, your partner hasn't been cuddling you lately and you've wanted to be cuddles that' that's that's kind of the same thing umm

[Sophie]: well and I think that the reality of the situation is is your partner I don't know how long this has been going on it just says lately, I believe, but depending on how long this is going on, this might not be something your partner is even aware of, there was a time where I really wasn't having much sex with you

[Mara]: mhmmmmmm

[Sophie]: or really anyone else, I was completely disinterested in sex and a lot of that had to do with medication I was on at the time and it was really fucking me up but it was also hurting some of my relationships because it was a change my partners had noticed, I am a person who enjoys sex, I like having sex uh and I enjoy what I th-, ya know, uh enjoy having healthy sexual relationships with people but so when the floor fell out of that because of some new anti-depressants I was on that really affected my partners and it made them feel like oh like suddenly she's not interested in me so this might be something where your partner is not exactly aware that he's doing, um, if he is aware that he's doing it

[Mara]: then that's shitty

[Sophie]: then that's shitty yeah if he's aware that he's giving you like less or [unintelligable] if he's aware that he's treating you like you're lesser than this other partner or if this is a constant problem where yeah this is the first time this has happened with sex but he always treats my like I'm less with this, like I'm less than this person or than theese people or whatever if you're being treated like the bottom of the totem pole in any regard and it's consistent and you've tried talking about it, might be time to end the relationship that is neglect that is something that if people are not willing to make moves to change what they're doing and their behavior that's something that you shouln't really have to go through and deal with and it's not normal

[Mara]: yeah no, and and and ideally your partner will change cause cause like I said earlier nobody wants to make their partner feel like they're disinterested

[Sophie]: or provide an explanation at least and say ah I'm sorry this is why this is happening and whatnot, and there has to be some change though the change has to be in what your understanding of your relationship is going to be or in your partner's behavior or something but if you're just expected to soldier on when you're feeling left out and neglected

[Mara]: that's shitty

[Sophie]: yeah yeah that's not good that's not a healthy at that point and it's really hard to hear but if this is a consistent problem then it's not a healthy relationship because you're just being deliberatly left out and, ya know, you're not a toy that someone, I I think I said this before you're not a toy that someone can just pick up and put on a shelf and take down whenever they wanna play with you, if you have casual relationships that's fine casual relationships there's nothing wrong with that what so ever where both people are, ya know, uh I'm not super invested in this and when I have time it's gonna be fun and when neither of us have time hey that's fine we've got that understanding but if you're very invested in a relationship and your partner isn't very invested in that relationship

[Mara]: you're gonna wanna get outa there

[Sophie]: yeah that's not a good fit like I'm not even gonna say that that person is inherently toxic maybe you're just not a good fit and that's really really hard to hear and I'm sorry but

[Mara]: but it happens

[Sophie]: yeah it happens all the time, so, ya know, keep in mind I'm not saying go end the relationship it's over, I'm saying talk, talk talk talk and if this is a consistent problem if you already tried that if nothing's changing then maybe try to find some people who value you a little bit more and recognize how awesome you are cause I'm sure you're super awesome

[Mara]: well and and I think too um often times we get up, we get kinda caught up in the idea that like a relationship is sucessful only if it doesn't end which is kind of bullshit like you can have a sucessful relationship that, that just ends, cuz it wasn't working like that's that's fine, ya know, there's nothing wrong with with ending a relationship

[Sophie]: yeah ending a relationship isn't a personal failure for you it just means that maybe it wasn't a great fit

[Mara]: yeah, alright so the final question is a listener question by worried in Washington and they are concerned about manipulation, recently there was a person who I was very into who was in a toxic relationship I didn't realize it when I firt met them but as we got to know each other it became evident that while they were polyam, their partner was on the controling side this partner demanded to know where they were, was monopolizing their time, and was making them feel bad about persuing a new relationship as we got closer and closer they eventually began discusing some of this with me and I told them that my honest opinion was that the relationship didn't sound too healthy, several days later I was informed that they had ended the relationship I was not trying to be manipulative but while I feel it may have been for the best in the long run they and I are now hurtling towards being in a relationship and I can't help but feel that I have exerted a lot of influence over my new beloved very early in the relationship, I don't want to be manipulative and I don't want there to be feelins of resentment later on I'm worried that someday the perception might be that I pushed them to end that relationship for my own gain in an effort to get closer to my new partner, help, should I talk to them about it, and if so, how

[Sophie]: so this is tricky and as someone who is mentally ill and uhh specifically I have borderline personality disorder, this is something that is near and dear to my heart I I am frequently worried about being manipulative because according to the DSM, ya know, the the and psychiatrists and everthing according to them that's something I'm very good at uh not from personal experience that's just something that ostensibley people like me are very good at, we're good  at telling people what they wanna hear which is very, uh, that's hard to navigate as someone who has been the victim of abuse many times in her life it's not easy to hear that you could be capable of doing that to someone again or ever that you have done that to people, so, this is something that this is a question that I've gotten many times in the past, before we started this and when it was sent in I figured we really should cover it because it's something that I've dealt with too, ya know, often times with new relationships often times people are positive influences on us and they encourage us to make positive changes in our lives which is all good, except for the fact that this is early on in a new relationship and it can start to feel like you're exerting some control over them even when that's not at all what you intended to do and it can feel very uncomfortable especially if they have a toxic friend or a toxic partner or something like that

[Mara]: well and I I think what's really important to keep in mind as somebody who has been worried about being manipulative before like oh did did I end that relationship umm you're you're completely in the right like you are within your rights to say to somebody hey your relationship doesn't seem healthy to me that's what good people do right like we tell our friends and our loved ones hey I'm I'm worried that you're in a bad situation  that that's not manipulative, ya know, so I just want to reasure this listener like  no you're not being manipulative for letting somebody know they're in a bad situation

[Sophie]: or anyone with a story similar to this like I said I have been through this many times with myself and others

[Mara]: well and I uh, ya know, if if your partner did think that, I really hope they wouldn't honestly it sounds very much like it was their choice to break of this partner, err to break off this relationship with their partner it doesn't sound like you were like this is a bad situation you need to end this relationship you just you can you expressed concern so

[Sophie]: yeah this is very different from a situation where you came in and said this is toxic it needs to go

[Mara]: and and I don't think anybody could really like umm think that, like hopefully, ideally I umm, yeah I don't know if you should neccecarily talk to your partner about it, cuz that's that's the big question

[Sophie]: I'm gonna make uh like a Staples Easy Button and it's gonna be a talk to me button and or a talk to them button rather and honestly I'm just gonna I'm gonna record all our voices and it's gonna be like three two one

[Sophie]: [Mara]: Talk to them!

[Sophie]: yeah thank you

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: I'm gonna use that recording, like for real always talk to your partner always always always talk to your partner about things if it goes bad it's because your partner's a shithead like I can't think of anything or I mean like som- sometimes a trauma comes up and things like that like I don't wanna be like, like there's valid reasons why people might react poorly to stuff but by in large talking it out is always going to have a more positive impact than not talking it out, so there's that, but also this is a situation where I think that if you don't address this now it's going to fester inside of you speaking from experience it's going to, you are going to feel worse about this three months from now than you do now if you don't talk about it

[Mara]: exactly and the worst thing that happens is you've clarified with your partner a little bit that like they were sure that they wanted to end that relationship

[Sophie]: yeah there's no universe in which your partner says, oh but I did that for you they're gonna be like no like if they think it was a positive thing they're gonna be like sweetie you were the straw that broke the camel's back the writing was on the wall with this friend or this partner or this job that I left or whatever I should have done that a while back and that was a positive thing and you were just one of many people er or that were telling me to leave or maybe you were the only person who had the guts to tell them hey this isn't healthy you should probably leave, this is something that honestly I think that if you tell them about it there's no if, ya know, if they are a good influence on your life they're probably going to be really understanding and they're going to be like no no, ya know, that's not what happened and if anything you're going to, ya know, they might be having some concerns too and you might put them at ease just with being

[Mara]: open and honest

[Sophie]: yeah open and honest about it, ya know, they might have been sitting there worried like oh maybe this, ya know, maybe this partner is worried I'm being a little bit co-dependent on them because they came in and now I made this decision to lea- again this could be a friend this could be a partner a job whatever, to leave this thing and they might be worried that I'm like latching onto them now uh through a power vacuum or somet- or not a power vacuum but like a uh a commitment vacuum or something like that and that'll put their mind at ease that, ya know, that's not what you're thinking and you're not trying to be controlling and that wasn't, ya know, you were just giving your honest opinion

[Mara]: right

[Sophie]: theese are all good things that you did, and you shouldn't have to feel bad about them this feeling shouldn't just fester inside of you should be able to move on and have a great time with your healthy new relationship

[Mara]: ya gotta commmuunicate

[Sophie]: yeah gotta commmuunicate

[Mara]: [laughs] alright well that looks like that is all we have for this time

[Sophie]: yep that's all the questions we have, please send us more questions if you enjoyed this episode we will do more like it let us know on twitter that would be at PolyAM_Radio, a capital P and then a capital AM underscore capital R radio if you wanna send us love letters or hate mail you can also email us and get more than a hundred and forty characters out of it that's at polyamradio all unders- or all lowercase

[Mara]: no underscore

[Sophie]: yeah no underscore all lowercase and that is at gmail dot com we hope to hear from you soon and the next episode will drop pretty much as soon as I finish it so thanks for listening and as always remember don't date your best friend's dad

[Sophie]: [Mara]: and don't date your dad's best friend

[Sophie]: see ya next time folks

["Good old fashioned lover boy" by Queen plays]

[Announcer]: This show was part of the trans podcaster visibility initiative

[End transcript]

#polyam radio #polyamory #transcript #ep2 #queer #trans #lgbt #relationships

[polyamradiotranscripts]

Ep. 1 New relationship Energy

polyAM Radio espisode one: New Relationship Energy

[Begin transcript]

[Sophie]: Hello everybody and welcome to polyam radio. I'm Sophie Last-name-redacted

[Mara]: And I'm Mara Fake-last-name

[Sophie]: Welcome to the first episode of our brand new podcast about polyamory that weird relationship thing you do with lots of other people.

["Crazy little thing called love" by Queen plays]

[Sophie]: as i mentioned my name is Sophie, I'm a trans womam my pronouns are she her hers

[Mara]: I'm mara, I use them them theirs pronouns

[Sophie]: we're engaged

[Mara]: pretty cool, no big deal, whatever

[Sophie]: yeah, little bit, ya know, fiancees, plural

[Mara]: cool

[Sophie]: yeah and we've been doing poly for about four or five years now, depending on when you start counting

[Mara]: yeah yeah I'd say do

[Sophie]: yeah yeah cuz we've been together for almost six years this is our new show and we just wanted to tell you a little about it before we jump right in to this weeks topic. Basically this show is going to be about queer, trans, modern polyamory, we're not really going to be talking about swinging a whole lot we're not relly going to be talking about open relationships, or strict heirarchical structures very much, we're going to be talking about very egalitarian very feminist oriented polyamory

[Mara]: well and and, and not that those things are awful or horrible or bad or wrong it's just uh, this is this is what our experience is, this is what works well for us this is what works well for a lot of other people

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely the goal of this podcast is not to rip on those things

[Mara]: well and and I think it's like worth mentioning when you and I started polyamory like we had a tiered open relationship and like that just that didn't work for us that was a bad time uh

[Sophie]: yeah I mean we were also like literal kids and, dumb, and stuff

[Mara]:  oh yeah, no, we were dumb high schoolers

[Sophie]: yeah, so

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: uh, yeah, high school sweethearts, lets talk a little bit about the structure of the show basically we're gonna try to drop episodes every other week. We're just starting so if we mess up a little bit, really sorry, there's not much we can do about it

[Mara]: we're humans

[Sophie]: yeah we're both students, uh, which is like a subcategory of humans uh that we someday hope to become humans, someday we hope to become humans, not inhumans like the x-men or whatever

[Mara]: well we're alreay inhumans, sike

[Sophie]: yeah I suppose

[Mara]: human, inhumans

[Sophie]: cuz I've got all these special powers, um

[Mara]: like weeping

[Sophie]: yeah, like lots of crying. Like i said we're going to try to drop shows every other week we're going to have a different topic on every show there's a small chance that if sometime we feel like there's new information out or something like that or our perscpectives have changed we'll drop an episode on a topic and revisit it, uh but generally speaking we're going to try to keep it fresh. How this is going to work is that me, Sophie, so you'll learn my name Sophie Sophie Sophie. I'm going to be the main host of this show, and Mara is going to be one of a couple co-hosts that help me out all the time so Mara is a voice you'll be hearing from a lot but probably not on every single episode. Got some other partners that wanna get in the rotation get in the mix, partly just to keep the perscpective fresh and everone's an expert on different things which is actually where I'm going next which is we're going to have occasional guest speakers on the show that are really knowledgable about specific things, because personally me, I don't consider myself an expert on poly or polyamory

[Mara]: Oh, god and I know I'm not and expert

[Sophie]: Yeah, absolutely I've only been doing it for four or five years, there's no way I could be and expert in something in that little amount of time. Ya know your undergrad takes four or five years and you barely know anything after that

[Mara]: well and and some people just have like different experiences too

[Sophie]: right exactly there are ascpects of polyamory that I can't speak to because I haven't had those experiences I think it would be really cool at some point to do a program or ya know uh and episode about having polyamorous parents and being a child raised in that. I was not in that situation so I can't really speak to it. So, we're going to try to mix it up, you're always going to have to deal with me unfortunately, uh, just to kind of keep some moderate level of consistency in how the show works, we're going to roate out the guest speakers based on ya know just kind of what information and experiences they have and can speak to

[Mara]: If this was a heirarchical relationship Sophie would be like your primary and I would be like a secondary [laughs]

[Sophie]: we don't do that bull shit here because, well  in my opinion it's inherently unhealthy and it makes people feel like they're less worthy and our beloved co-host is not less worthy so we also wanna talk about us some of  the other sections so we're gonna have some people talk about the main topic but we're also gonna have an advice section, hopefully and a lot of that is depedent on you the listener ya know if you want us to have a really cool advice section you have to send us really cool quetsions

[Mara]: I mean because the only thing I can give advice on is Oh my god both of my partners leave their dishes in the sink and don't do their dishes so how do I get my partners to do the dishes so like it can be goofy things like that or it can be, help, my partner is moving across the country how do I cope with this

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely and how do I tell them I'm that I'm running off or being scared or stuff like that, so it can be silly or serious if you want a sill or serious answer depending I mean you'll kind of get out of this what you put into it. basically what we're gonna try to do is if we get a lot of quetsions on a certain topic that'll inform what topics we cover in main episodes to try to hit couple of those with one stone and then address those quetsions directly, uh, or if ya know we may if we get a ton a ton a quetsions we may just do an episode at some point that is just ya know no cohesive structure just answering quetsions because y'all loved em and it was really popular

[Mara]: that would be a lot of fun

[Sophie]: that would be a lot of fun I would really dig that like ya know once every couple months just do an advice show, so the best way to reach us then would be either on twitter uh its polyam_radio uh you can tweet at us or you can send us and email with your quetsion and if you don't want it in public but you want it answered in a public medium, which would be weird, but you're certainly free to do that if it's longer than [Sophie]:40 character or however long they give you on twitter and our email is [email protected] and I believe that's right I'm going to check it and vamp for time until I do

[Mara]: [vamp with 'do do do']

[Sophie]: [vamp with 'do do do']

[Sophie]: Oh no I typed in fmail on my computer not gmail

[Mara]: uh while sophie looks that up actually I could probably

[Sophie]: polyamradio all underscrore no, uh all lowercase no underscore anything at gmail.com so poly a m radio, it's a joke ya get it? cuz AM radio is a medium where you talk to people on the radio and we call it polyam cuz polyamory. Alright so lets jump right in to talking about what this is actually supposed to be about now that we've waste about ten minutes of your time we're going to talk about new relationship energy today, we figured it would be good because this podcast is shiny and new and we're relly excited about it and we hope you're really excited about it and a lot of times when relationships are new they are bright and shiny and sometimes you do dumb shit because of it

[Mara]: sometimes?

[Sophie]: sometimes, yeah, uh

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: yeah sometimes uh

[Mara]: speaking only for myself here I do really dumb shit

[Sophie]: yeah and it's really interesting because the times you where you haven't done dumb shit uh because you're in a new relationship generally speaking that just means that it hasn't been the appropriate amount of months since you've done that dumb shit and you're not ready to really own up to it yet so if you're like that's not me I'm not doing dumb shit cuz of my new relationship tweet at me in like six months or whatever and then we'll talk

[Mara]: sophie is the queen of doing that

[Sophie]: okay I mean you say that but like saying that is kind of I think is reductionist because like I do dumb shit all the time anyways

[Mara]: okay true but like you're you're new relationship dumb shit is like [wooshing noise]

[Sophie]: yeah well part of it is that um like, we talk about, we're going to be talking about disability and a lot of stuff on this show uh I'm bipolar so I have to deal with mania on top of new relationship energy sometimes and ya know I mean, I've taken psychology clases and we learned about mania as running naked through the shopping mall ya know in this extreeme cases and that's not at all what mania is in most people's lives I have had some, relationship equivalents of running naked through the shopping mall uh ya know I've definitley um ya know called a partner like 80 times or something like that, in a matter of, however long, ya know or at least it felt like 80 times

[Mara]: let me just pull up my phone records

[Sophie]: yeah, honestly,

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]:yeah well you live with me so you get the worst of it

[Mara]: middle of the night, cuddle me[sustained]

[Sophie]: okay, thats not even, well yeah um, that was mania lat night but normally that's just cuz I'm a huge cuddle bug

[Mara]: that's true

[Sophie]: anyways, um, new relationship energy uh it feels weird and it can makes us do dumb shit and sometimes it can even make our partners insecure so we want to have a discussion about it because as people who have started a lot of new relationships recently it's been something that's been very prevalent in our lives and it's been something that we've had to deal with ya know I I kind of alluded to this before but we don't neccecarliy consider ourselves experts on poly, we consider ourselves and I consider myself someone who has made a lot of poly mistakes and who has done a lot of things wrong, and I've also done a lot of things right because just by rote of doing this for a long enough ya know you, you make lots of decisions and choices and actions and some of thema are great and some of them are not so great and we wanna talk about that so I wanna preface all of this with, we do not consider ourselves experts on it, this is our experience, what we think, if you think we're totally wrong I'm not gonna say that you're wrong and that we're totally right, uh I do think that ya know I think that no matter who you are or where you're coming from even if you're a monogamous you'll be able to get something out of this cuz a lot of these feelings and experiences and what not aren't neccecarliy unique to polyamory in my mind  

[Mara]: yeah uh so now that we've been like babbling at you about new relationship energy new relationship energy we should probably like talk about what it is so people are sitting there like horrifically confused so it's kind of almost exactly what it sounds like

[Sophie]: Webster's Dictionary defines it as

[Mara]: yeah okay [laughs] so Webster Dictionary definition probably more like, urban dictionary definition

[Sophie]: ooh that was a good goof I like that

[Mara]: you could proba- like so you know how you feel so happy like you're gonna puke in the begining of a relationship just like constantly just like the butterlies in you're stomach and this person can do no wrong, and oh my god how is everybody not in love with this person maybe, mabye that's just me but like I oh my gosh I like I feel like I'm gonna puke I'm so happy when when I start a new relationship, it's pretty dumb

[Sophie]: yeah well with me a lot of times it manifests itself in uh a manner similar to ya know I'm always wanting to talk to this person always wanting to be around this person and even there are times when I'm kind of saturated with them where it's like wow, I could really use a moment alone to myself to like clean my glasses and wipe my ass and just ya know someth- like time where it's like a little isolated little quality time alone, that's good sometimes uh you want to hermit a little bit and that is normally what happens with partners with me at least just because you can't be around people constantly, problem is, is that a lot of times with new relationship energy that feeling of wanting to isolate yourself just a little bit every now and then isn't there, at least for me uh and that can cause some problems either just because you're around people all the time or you're neglecting your other relationships or responsibilities, it's like we're both students who have like homework and shit, so it can cause you to, in some cases neglect other areas of your life because you're, ya know, hopping into bed with this perosn when you have other shit to do or you just wanna, ya know , you're planning your day around getting dinner with them even though you've seen them every day this week and just kind of going to uh sometimes like comical levels of effort just to spend time with this person and kind of shoe horn-ing it in, for me a lot of times that's what it ends up looking like and a lot like Mara said that it feels like butterlies it feels like this person is amazing and oh my god I can't believe they're into me and, ya know, sometimes even just being insecure and being like maybe the're not into me so, uh, for me a lot of times that's how it manifests

[Mara]: um, yeah, for me I'm like oh I don't know I just I I get super super into people and I'm like not not neccecarliy like I wanna be around you every second of every day uh like Sophie gets I I very much value my alone time and my hermitage time and I will like totally straight up interrupt dates with partners to be like, ya, no I need to be alone, I need to take a bath with a bath bomb and just like chillax that's that's who I am as a person but like I'll be constantly thinking about them, I'll be wanting to spend all of my time with them, I'll like, I don't shut up about people when I get new relationship energy like I will just talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, to anyone who will listen to me uh which that's it's not great

[Sophie]: yeah Mara really like ya know how um the kind of the romance dime novel that I'm not actually convinced anybody reads

[Mara]: speak for yourself

[Sophie]: woah wow okay

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: that's a guilty pleasure you should feel bad about [laughs] wow okay yeah learning new things learning new things about my fiance gonna have to like process that later but you know like the shitty fantasy dime novels where it's like ya know, she swooned or whatever an like then like Ma- Mara gets very swoony over new partners and it's really cute and it's endearing

[Mara]: well I'm glad you think so

[Sophie]: well they think so to typically at least in my experience ya know everyone thinks you're super cute

[Mara]: that's alright I just kinda want to die uhh [laughs]

[Sophie]: well it's also really funny because you're really shy

[Mara]: [quietly] yeahhh

[Sophie]: so you're swooning but a lot of times you're to nervous to talk to people

[Mara]: they must'nt know, they must'nt know I swooned over them Sophie

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely

[Mara]: they'll think me a harlot

[Sophie]: well you are

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: ya know, so [laughs] sorry I'm just imagining you as the kind of person who's concerned with being a harlot or not and it's I'm not handling it

[Mara]: I I don't know what you're talking about I don't know what you're trying to imply about me

[Sophie]: yeah well I mean [pause] okay

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: yeah right now I am stammering worse than Mara does when talking to a new partner, ba dum cha oh with the look I'm getting right now folks

[Mara]: your intent was to shoot an arrow through my heart

[Sophie]: yeah yeah

[Mara]: fuckin bullseye

[Sophie]:  like this is an audio only medium but like I hope you can hear like the fear in my voice from the look I'm getting right now is, it is not great folks

[Mara]: yes clearly I am a very terrifying person

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely

[Mara]: [laughs] but so, so like the dumb stuff it can make you do, uh, that's what it is, that's how it feels

[Sophie]: so, so let me ask you a question then, basically it feels good generally right?

[Mara]: um, yes but

[Sophie]: yeah good but weird, ya know

[Mara]: well and and there are times where I don't know, speaking of like disability I'm, I've been like horrifically depressed my entire life so like when I'm really happy I'm just like alright when's the other shoe gonna drop what's gonna happen, but ya know

[Sophie]: yeah, I'm not saying it can go on for, indefinitely like if we're talking about ice cream like ya know I'm very lactose intolerant I shouldn't be eating ice cream at all but like, ya know the fact that we say ice cream tastes good doesn't mean that we always and only ever want to eat ice cream

[Mara]: oh yeah, no, no

[Sophie]: so so like this is a feeling that's generally good right like it's not a bad feeling

[Mara]: sometimes it's like being strapped to an emotional comet or at least for me ya know it's just kind of like this person has has tied like something around my heart and has just kind of sent it off into space and like I can't think straight and I don't like it all the time

[Sophie]: that's fair I uh a lot of times I get annoyed that I'm always thinking about this person cuz ya know I'm a I'm mean I've frequently got other stuff I'm trying to focus on like come on y'all I'm trying to do this calculus here like I can't be thinking about sucking on this persons face right now like ya know, derivatives they're sexy and they're important and  I should be doing them

[Mara]: that's cute

[Sophie]: yeah

[Mara]: uh

[Sophie]: that's my life

[Mara]: and I think I think for me um part of why I don't always neccecarliy like enjoy the the uh intense excitement is I I think that like I can kind of feel like I'm like neglecting my partners sometimes like oh oh I'm just so excited that it's kind of like negatively affecting this relationship I think that ya know it can feel really nice and really really exiting but I think sometimes why I don't neccecarliy enjoy uh that that strapped to an emotional comet feeling is um being like with other partners I talk and talk and talk and talk and talk right and I'm constantly talking about my new partner and like oh what if they're getting annoyed what if they're feeling left out like what if I'm neglecting my partner for this other person and that's a really horrible feeling for me personally

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely and that's actually what I kinda wanted to get into here, ya know, we talk about this and it's, ya know again like I said it's it's like a roller coaster or ice cream or whatever it's not neccecarliy bad it's not always what you're in the mood for and there is a tim- there is a point where it becomes too much but like what are some of the negative effects of new relationship energy because ya know we chose this to be the first episode of our podcast and at least in my mind it would be weird to have picked that and have it just be something that we talk about where it's like oh it's this vaugley inconvinient little thing that doesn't really affect you or your other relationships at all like cuz in my experience it does have, ya know for lack of a better term some deleterious, some bad uh effects, some drawbacks so what are some ways that uh in your experience uh new relationship energy can be a bad thing

[Mara]: [laughs] le- let let me think of a couple examples here

[Sophie]: I think I think for one at the very least is ya know all the dumb shit it makes you do

[Mara]: Oh yeah no for sure

[Sophie]: like we talked about that briefly but like ya know it's worth bringing up again like uh it can make you make an ass of yourself ya know I had a relationship a while back where ya know it was making me kind of blin- the new relationship energy was kinda making me blind to how this how this other partner was treating and interacting with some of my other partners and, ya know, not to say that ya know this person wasn't the devil by any means but there were lots of like little like slights and everything going on and it was causing my partner a lot of well well you it was causing you a lot of anxiety

[Mara]: yeah it was

[Sophie]: and it was making, ya know, the fact that I wasn't seeing this was making you feel gaslit when it was something that ya know I was having a hard time validating because I ya know I wasn't noticing and I wasn't picking up on these frankly very subtle signals and and and whatnot

[Mara]: well and I think the hardest thing too was that um like even if you weren't picking up on it like you weren't listening ya ya know and that was the really hard thing for me

[Sophie]: yeah I think new relationship energy makes communication harder and I and I think that's the reality of it, ya know

[Mara]: well and I think especially like something, uh, dumb shit that you do when when you're um when you're experiencing new relationship energy is, ya know , it's the problem isn't you, right and the problem isn't this new person like it's, what could be wrong like you know this relationship is so great it can be really hard to to listen to what this other person is trying to say to you like hey here's how your attidute towards this is kind of hurting me

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely and I think that ya know to a big degree it's not like this person couldn't possibly be doing anything wrong it just feels like, get off their back ya know it just feels like what do they do that's so bad

[Mara]: well and you don't know them like I do, and

[Sophie]: yeah absolutely it's like you're not spending all this time with them and everything and ya know and you're trying to make the new relationship work, you're always worried that you're gonna scare someone off or whatever and that's pretty standard stuff that we all ya know deal with and what not I mean I don't I don't think that  doesn't make you the devil because you're having this new relationship energy

[Mara]: oh god no no

[Sophie]: it can just kind of make you blind to certain things that are going on, not even saying this new partner ya know this isn't a problem that only occurs if your new partner happens to be someone who is secretly totally toxic ya know this is a problem that occurs ya know like lots of people have like little things about them that make them ya know not a hundred percent positive influences on your life like there's no way anybody's a hundred percent positive influence on your life unless they're totally bullshitting you putting a ton of effort into it that's why being a parent is hard that's why your parents don't talk to you the same fucking way they do their friends is because they're trying to be a hundred percent positive, well, most parents I think are ya know are at least trying to be a hundred percent positive influence, I think a lot of them fall way short but that's an entirely different conversation ya know the fact of the matter is, is that when you're trying to be a good influence for someone you behave differently then when you're just, like, chilling around them and spending time with them doing all this other shit ya know so like, it can make you blind to, to some of things your partners are bringing up I think is the big thing for me ya know I, what are some other ways that new relationship energy can kind of, hurt other relationships or or that relationship itself

[Mara]: um, I I think sometimes like I've personally made some pretty like rash decisions about a partner before ya know in the new relationship energy phase and ya know all of the sudden the new relationship energy is dissapated and like you're hanging out with them and you're like oh, oh no like

[Sophie]: [laughs]

[Mara]: what have I done here, ya know I uh, I don't think I want this with this person anymore how, how do I talk to this person about it I think that's something that can be like for me it's a very big concern it's like am I making this decision about this partner because it's genuinley what I feel and what I want or am I making this with uh, ya know, the dopamine and they oxytocin and all those fun brain chemicals are kinda like they got you going and they, this person can do no wrong like let's move in and live together and have babies together and and all the sudden, oh shit, I don't wanna have babies I don't even wanna like with this person let alone even have babies ya know

[Sophie]: yeah well and I also think that ya know realistically I know we've both been in situations where new relationship energy has made us get into more commited relationships then we had time for and we were ready for uh, that's happened a couple times realistically and it's been really hard to back pedal uh because that's not a fun conversation to have with someone and be like yeah listen I'm still interested in you but ya know how we were gonna be ya know this really committed really serious thing, that's not actually something I'm ready for and I was just being really foolish and foolhardy and I'm sorry that was a shitty thing I did like that is not a conversation that is fun to have for anybody and it's really hard to come back from there, ya know it's kind of like you can't un-fuck someone, you can't, ya know, you can stop sleeping with someone you can can, ya know you can choose to not continue to do it but you can't undo the fact that you did it and that can be really hard to do

[Mara]: right, well you can't take back the the words that you said and the feelings that it caused like  I think that's something that ya know this is this is a relationship and I've kind of made this bond to you, I can't I can't really get un-engaged from you at this point like we can't just say ohh nevermind like we don't wanna be engaged anymore we we kind of have to say like alright like what does what does this

[Sophie]: well I wanna put out there ya know we could but it would be messy

[Mara]: oh yeah [laughs]

[Sophie]: we would have to like re-structure our whole relationship and focus for probably years on returning to whatever point that we wanted to get to with a lesser commitment I mean and ya know whether or not the relationship would survive that I honestly can't say I, just like, not that I would want to leave you if you did that or whatever, just that's a really tricky thing to learn how to navigate

[Mara]: yeah for sure well and I think like ya know even even on the flip side of like ya ya know, I think sometimes when I'm ha- with a partner who's experiencing a lot of new relationship energy like this is this is a personal flaw uh I can feel like kind of left out or like oh, this partner doesn't actually love me they love this person way more they're just with me because I'm familiar and ya know I've I've been with them for a while and I'm just, ya know they're gonna get sick of me and they're gonna get tired of me and they don't actually like me like that is that is something that I have concerns about and like part of that is like acutal emotional trauma from my past, but, like part of that too is just kind of, we're, we're kind of surrounded by this society that thinks oh monogamy is the one true way and all you polyamorous people are gonna settle down and, umm, which is that's just dumb

[Sophie]: yeah it's foolish

[Mara]: like you know it's not doing this because I don't want commitment, I have several commitments like I want commitment it's not I don't want commitment uh,

[Sophie]: yeah I more commitment in one of my relationships, this one in particular than most monogamous people do in theirs and then if you add up all the commitments from all of my relationships into one gigantic scary comittment monster, ya know it becomes

[Mara]: [gasp] is this what I've been hearing about? The commitment monster

[Sophie]: the commitment monster yeah

[Mara]: is this why people get cold feet?

[Sophie]: I guess, yeah

[Mara]: is the comittment monster coming for them?

[Sophie]: we have our first celebirty appearance on our show it's the commitment monster

[Mara]: [growling a la commitment monster]

[Sophie]: wow yeah

[Mara]: [growling] I do [growling]

[Sophie]: [laughs]

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: hello commitment monster how are you doing today

[Mara]: I'm, I don't know will I wanna be with you forever and ever

[Sophie]: oh no how do I get out of this now

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: see that's how they get ya folks ya konw commitment monster I gotta say you sound a lot like uh like a t-rex but you look a lot like if cookie monster and animal had a baby and I'm just really curious about that

[Mara]: I am the product of their commitment

[Sophie]: [laughs]  well you heard it here first folks cookie monster and animal the muppets are in a triad with a t-rex and they're very committed and they're presumeably very happy a well maybe not becuase that's why a monster grew out of it they're in an unhappy triad

[Mara]: [normal voice] no it's their baby

[Sophie]: ohh, oh it's like spwan thing

[Mara]: yeah

[Sophie]: oh I thought this was like a metaphysical I though this was like a metaphysical being that arose out of like ya know just like the spirit of commitment

[Mara]: I mean I think everybody has their own commitment monster, some of those are acutal tangible babies

[Sophie]: fuck that's deep

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: ya know you say like you're ripping on babies a lot for someone who like ya know was the one who convinced me to have kids

[Mara]: oh god I love babies like don't get me wrong I love babies, I'm not ripping on babies I I think but you know for some people, they're afraid of having kids and for them like that comittment monster is kind of realized in like I don't wanna have kids, I'm scared of having kids with this person I'm scared of like ya know

[Sophie]: that's fair

[Mara]: like I'm scared of being saddled to this tiny little life for eighteen years that's a long time folks

[Sophie]: yeah that's fair well and, well really forever, like basically until you die because like at eighteen years ya know like they don't stop being your kid like you just like

[Mara]: the relationship changed

[Sophie]: yeah like that is the best case scenario for when you no longer have to deal with them in your house anymore

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: like that is the shortest commitment for like okay how much longer until this little fuck isn't eating my food anymore like that's what eighteen is

[Mara]: and even they come back from college and uh hi mom sorry for eating all your food

[Sophie]: I didn't but my parents don't keep food in the house they

[Mara]: right well that's a different story

[Sophie]: yeah they subsist on like saltines, apples, and Fox News alone, yeah it's pretty rough

[Mara]: well the racism is enough to kind of sustain any white American I suppose

[Sophie]: any good red blooded American can be sustained on racism alone

[Mara]: [laughs] but, I digress or we digress

[Sophie]: yeah, yeah that got kind of off there but I liked it

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: I like where it went

[Mara]:  but it can really kinda feel like um ya know it it you're old and you're boring and your partner is just going to get rid of you right that's like the ultimate goal of your partner ge- they're interested in somebody else so they must be more interested in them than you like thats just the very monogamous attidute towards it, right? but like we personally practice relationship anarchy all of our relationships just are what they are and they don't really have effects on ya know what another relationship looks like like my relationship to Sophie does not uh affect my relationship with another partner or anybody else really just like ya know having, being friends with one individual doesn't affect your friendship with somebody else I think that's pretty silly when you think about you're you're friendships that way so why would you think about like you're re- romantic relationships, sorry folks, there is there is a squirrel

[Sophie]: yeah there

[Mara]: stealing an apple out of our compost

[Sophie]: a whole apple that got just too rotten to eat so I threw it out

[Mara]: oh that squirrel is going to have the greatest day of its life folks

[Sophie]: litterally like I'm just watching a squirrel just jizz its pants over how much food it found

[Mara]: it's having new relationship energy over this apple

[Sophie]: my biggest concern is that it's gonna hop down from our deck, which is on the second floor of our, so it's an apartment it's on the second floor, my biggest fear right now is that the squirrel is gonna try to jump down from here with the apple in its mouth instead of just knocking it down and retreiving it and that the extra weight is gonna make it hit the ground real real hard and just kill it

[Mara]: and that is why new relationship energy is dangerous folks

[Sophie]: yeah I guess

[Mara]: it uh that apple, that apple will get ya every time

[Sophie]: yeah well, apple a day, well ya know keep the doctor away cuz you are a squirrel and it will kill you

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: [laughs] okay, uh

[Mara]: goodness gracious

[Sophie]: yeah yeah we're great at this we're really good podcasters folks this is just like people are like tuning in for their auditory experience of the day and just just having a blasty blast

[Mara]: they're getting, a squirrel

[Sophie]: yeah

[Mara]: oh no

[Sophie]: oh he'll be back

[Mara]: I hope so

[Sophie]: the apple is still there he not

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: god I swear to god all of this is making it through post, so anyways going back to things feeling like maybe your partner is only with you because it's, ya know, familiar and and it can start to feel like maybe you're just there as a saftey net for your partner uh and ya know maybe they're not just into you maybe they're just into the stability of you and I gotta say folks, if you're feeling that way about your partner, I don't know you, I don't know your partner, ya brain's lyin to ya, it just is, I I got that feeling all the time about a lot of different partners and I gotta tell you like I'm really fortunate my partners got they're so fucking into me they're it's it's rediculous

[Mara]: it's pretty dumb

[Sophie]: it's like they don't even know who I am

[Mara]: [laughs]

[Sophie]: it's real bad folks

[Mara]: I uh well yeah it's it's ya know

[Sophie]: well but but my point is like this isn't something that, ya know y'all aren't just with me cuz it's easy to be because I'm not always the easiest person to be with and y'all aren't just in this for stability or whatever cuz, here's the thing when people are in relationships just for the stability they get out of those relationships because that's not something that they probably want to continue to be in, if there's someone else they'd rather be with and they no longer want to be with you they do this thing called a break-up or a divorce or whatever we  have a word for that folks, so, ya know, that's a little message from me to you, that's not what's happening, but it can feel that way and if you are feeling that way it's super important to communicate that to your partner, and it's okay to just say hey, ya know I know you've got a lot of new relationship energy and I I'm supporting that, that's great ya know that's real real good

[Mara]: right like I'm excited for you too

[Sophie]: yeah I'm feelin compersion, I'm happy for your happiness and I'm happy because of your happiness even though it doesn't directly impact me it's called compersion ya know that that like I said that's all good good stuff, and it's also okay to be like ya know I'm just, I'm feeling a little insecure and I'm feeling like maybe you're just with me because this is familiar and, ya know, I just need reasurance, do you still wanna be with me and everything and probably they'll say yes because you're a real real cool person uh and they'll just put their arm around you and say hey listen it's familiar, but not too familiar

[Mara]: but not too not familiar

[Sophie]: it's a new craze, something something "mbmbam" and then you'll go have sex because your problems will be solved, if you're into having sex when your problems are solved

[Mara]: [gasp] sorry, the squirrel wants to come in

[Sophie]: he can't

[Mara]: I know he can't, sorry folks, you were getting into this for they polyamory and it's just squi- it's all squirrels now

[Sophie]: yeah you can tell your friends about it if they're into squirrels and shit, so that's basically our take on new relationship energy uh if there's anything you felt we left out or anything you want to add to the conversation feel to take that to our twitter or to our email, preferably twitter because it's public and then other people can benefit from what you have to say because I'm sure it's genius, if you wanna holler at us because we did everything wrong that's fine too, ya know, just try to be nice about it we're both, ya know, pretty new to podcasting this might now be the best, ya know the most deligh-, this might not be the most delectable audio experience you've ever had but we're working hard to make it better and any tips you have about that would also be appriciated, I do wanna mention quick that we were welcomed into the trans podcaster visibility initiative so we are part of that network, and I just wanna thank them for their help and guidence while we were getting started it's been a huge huge help and actually before I even made this first episode ya know I had just sent someone a message to ask them a question and, ya know, one thing let to another and we were invited to join this good good network where all these trans, queer podcasters are uh, ya know, making their art, and making their stuff and I just think it's really cool and we're really fortunate to be a part of that and I think we're gonna have some real good guest speakers because of that network also I doubt they'll ever hear this but I just want, I think we both kinda want to thank, the entire Mcelroy family especially Griffin, Travis, Justin, and Clint for just being real real bad at Dungeons and Dragons and for getting us into podcasting through "Mbmbam" and "The Adventure Zone" they're not paying us to say that, just real big fans and you should go watch their stuff, uh

[Mara]: or listen

[Sophie]: er, listen to their stuff, yeah because this is an audio medium and I know that because I'm looking at a microphone and no camera, so anyways this has been polyAM radio and just a reminder before you go, don't date your best friends dad and don't date your dad's best friend, see ya next time folks

["Good old fashioned lover boy" by Queen plays]

[Announcer]: This show was part of the trans podcaster visibility initiative

[End transcript]

#polyam radio #polyamory #transcript #new relationship energy