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#/ scene kid. mall goth. etc.
moonrevolutions · 2 months
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vi as a teen? you mean...?
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he has braces in the 4th pic if u peep close.... he was a brace face...
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drifthail · 11 months
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a basic breakdown of emo, punk, and goth— a character resource for writers and artists by someone who is emo :] (under the cut!!)
the most important thing: emo, punk, and goth are all music-based subcultures. you cannot be a part of the subculture without listening to the music.
this is a basic guide and won't be going into subgenres (like screamo, hardcore, etc etc). this is what this guide covers:
the five waves of emo (with a focus on midwestern emo and 2000s emo) and emo fashion
punk rock and punk fashion
gothic rock and traditional goth fashion
i've listened to the majority of bands and songs i mention here!
i'm going based off what i know, so if any info is incorrect, please lmk!! :]
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emo
emotional hardcore (emocore or just emo) formed in the mid 1980s from post-hardcore and hardcore punk
there are five waves of emo music (w/ bands):
1st wave (1980s) - rites of spring 2nd wave (1990s) - the get up kids, cap’n jazz, american football 3rd wave (2000s) - my chemical romance, paramore, fall out boy 4th wave (2010s) - the world is a beautiful place & i am no longer afraid to die, the front bottoms, you blew it! 5th wave (2020s) - home is where
specific songs to listen to:
1st wave: for want of by rites of spring
2nd wave: oh messy life by cap'n jazz
3rd wave: thank you for the venom by my chemical romance
4th wave: match & tinder by you blew it!
5th wave: yes! yes! a thousand times yes! by home is where
midwestern emo fashion vs. 2000s emo fashion
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midwestern emo: its hard to find any pictures, so i’m going based off of pictures i was able to find, as well as an explanation by madeline pendleton (an alternative content creator who was a part of the subculture during the 90s).
looking at pictures, denim jeans, striped sweaters, and plaid jackets were popular. very classic loser/nerd vibe.
according to madeline pendleton: black dyed spock rock cuts or karen cuts were popular. clothes: low rise flare jeans, small banti shirts, plaid cowboy snap ups, track jackets, and white collared shirts with ties. accessories and shoes: flower clips, white belts buckled to the side, cowboy hats, low top converse, and saucony jazzes. eyeliner was also common. her video with pictures!
2000s emo: 2000s emo often features choppy, jet black or colourful dyed hair, band tees, studded belts, stripes (especially black and white stripes on arm warmers), spikes, checkers, kandi bracelets, black jeans, and shoes like converse, vans, and doc martens. the fashion is similar to scene. however, scene and 2000s emo aren't the same thing, because scene has different music (and emo has a darker aesthetic overall).
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punk
punk rock (or just punk) formed in the mid 1970s from garage rock
a counterculture; rebels against the mainstream. punks are non-conformists
very politically-driven subculture— generally left leaning, acab, anti-establishment, anti-capitalism, and value individual freedom
punk has a diy ethic (a lot of punk fashion is made of readily available materials that the wearer customizes with things like patches, studs, spikes, paint, etc etc)
several subgenres (anarcho-punk, horror punk, hardcore punk, queercore, riot grrrl, etc etc)
punk bands: sex pistols, dead kennedys, the clash, the misfits, x-ray spex, green day
specific songs to listen to:
god save the queen by the sex pistols
london calling by the clash
art-i-ficial by x-ray spex
punk fashion
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punk fashion often features safety pins, patches, spikes, studs, and chains as accessories. leather and denim are common materials for jackets. common hairstyles include mohawks and liberty spikes. many punk outfits are made out of readily available clothes that are accessorized or altered by the wearer. (hence punk's diy ethic)
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goth
gothic rock (or just goth) formed in the late 1970s from post-punk
several fashion types (trad goth, victorian goth, mall goth, cyber goth, etc etc)
goth bands: the cure, sisters of mercy, switchblade symphony, bauhaus, depeche mode, skeletal family
specific songs to listen to:
clown by switchblade symphony
disintegration by the cure
dominion by sisters of mercy
traditional goth fashion
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traditional goth fashion mostly uses black and white in its look. the makeup generally consists of white foundation with thin eyebrows, black lipstick, and heavy black eyeliner. hair is teased and worn up. fishnets, lace, flowy dresses, leather jackets, chains, spikes, studs, crosses, and corsets are common clothing and accessories.
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respiteresponse · 9 months
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dream needs to wear an emo collar choker asap. clawing at the walls thinking about it
my tierlist for scenemo items dream should wear:
F Tier: skinny jeans. HEAR ME OUT. his wide leg mall goth nu metal dragging on the floor catching under the heel of his shoe slay just fits him so well and as much as i would love to see his legs encapsulated by splitting fringing black denim i think his giant jeans are a statement and make him extra moe. he should wear more ripped and black jeans though ! ! !
D Tier: beanies and snapbacks. he already rocks the cat dreanies near daily and with the mask coming into the picture and everything being so joever for us hair appreciators, as sexy as he is with his beanies on and his curls peaking out me personally i just love when his whole ice cream scoop hair is on display ! can be improved with some rainbow cheetah print hair extensions and or a tiara : ) !
C Tier: off the hip belts, preferably studded. this is one of my most favorite and hottest things a person can do with their outfit ESP if theyre scenemo leaning but its not essential to make the scenemo kid style shine through. i can even accept some more normie type stuff like bb simons so long as its styled appropriately ! ! ! a want but not a need.
B Tier: tight fitted tees/band tees. droobs tastefully hidden behind an edgy stretched and distorted logo for pierce the veil or sleeping with sirens most likely purchased at hot topic 10 years ago, snatched waist on display for the whole world to admire and for george to grab WITH the added bonus that short sleeve shirts have a tendency to rise up due to their fit, so we could realistically even expect a glimpse of tummy and or boxers peaking out which only enhances the visuals on display. and his ARMS. preferably covers and curated by bracelets exclusively bought from spencers or gifted by fans if not by an either complimentary or uncomplimentary long sleeve/hoodie underneath.
A tier: eyeliner. a well understood and universally accepted staple in the scenemo community. and really the more the better ! ! a tasteful swipe of black pencil drug store eyeliner on the waterline of dreams bottom lids could only improve upon his looks as a 6'2" boy with glossy doe eyes and pink lips . but then you add to it, upper waterline to match the bottom, expand unto the skin of the eyelids, perhaps even try a wing if were feeling daring ! in an exceptionally crazy occasion we could go full raccoon, black from tail end of his eyebrow down to the start of where the crease of his bottom lid lies. he could eat jeffree stars ex scene queen ass up in about 0.5 nano seconds with that and some fake lashes, but thats just me ! irregardless, something so casual as a little makeup can go a long way in making someone hot 100x hotter 😋
S Tier: facial piercings. the possibilities here are quite literally endless. we start simple with nose, a ring through the nostril is a classic, super simple everyone is doing it, could have one of those and pass for someone who doesnt know jack shit about i set my friends on fire or dot dot curve, but then you go a little lower and things start to get fun. with a lip piercing, you can basically signal to any and everyone that youre an edgy kind of guy, not just anyone will put a needle through one of the most prominent and noticeable features of their face! dolphin bites, snake bites, shark bites, spider bites, literally any animal biting your lips will up your status as a queen of the scene. bonus points for a monroe or a tongue piercing, xxxxxtra hot imo😁 moving back up bridge is also a good option, particularly edgy and tough to find on anyone in day to day life, would give dream some uniqueness as if he was already in any need of that. eyebrow is always a safe option, anti eyebrow, tear drop etc all very very cool. but the most ultimate piercingf for dream in my opinion would be a simple yet head turning cheek piercing. a common factor to be found in most all of my scenemo dream drawings, it simply seems like it makes obvious sense for the guy whos whole branding is smiles to have piercings wear his dimples are ! ! when he smiles, the sun will not only catch on his astoundingly straight white teeth, but also on that of the jelwery adorning where his dimples lie.
GOD TIER:
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needleworm · 1 year
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anybody who thinks current emos/scene kids/mall goths/etc don't go to the mall anymore has never gone to a mall in ohio
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alicebnnuy · 1 year
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OK I'M JUST GONNA RANT A LITTLE BIT BARE WITH ME
So TLDR, I miss the old Hot Topic, and I want to open a store like it. As I said, bare with me because this post is about to get LOOOONG! And it's also gonna be a lot of ADHD rambling so like, I'm sorry if this get confusing!
I'm from the province of Quebec, Canada, so we never had Hot Topics in my town. (I think due to some whatever Law 101 about French and stuff, dunno).
But we did have HMV at my local mall, and for a few, it was similar to hot topics. By that I mean, it was a store my cousin loved going to with her scene kid friends, but I was too scared to even approach as I was my parents' "little good kid" (and preferred EB Games)
Now of course, we've all seen the memes of scene kids and Hot Topic, it's easy to make fun of them because everyone and their mom does it!
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But that's exactly what I miss!
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a scene kid. I asked my best friend to tell me if I ever become one so I can stop myself. If anything, I'm an emo kid. I prefer saying I'm goth punk, yami kawaii, etc etc. I'm also an adult so...
We may not have had any Hot Topic in Quebec, but I did visit their website recently, and I was shocked to see almost none of the things that everyone makes fun of. It's now filled with trendy pop culture stuff. Which I mean, it makes sense, that's what they wanted to be from the start.
But imagine my disappointment as I go into this expecting to find a lot of goth, emo, scene kid, dark stuff!
And I find only... Stuff that I can find at any other pop music inspired stores?!
Ok side note. I am transgender. I never felt like I ever passed through puberty (of course, I did, everyone does) and the "It's not a phase mom!" phase. As of November 29th 2022, I will have been on HRT for a whole year, and I feel like I'm barely starting true puberty, like my emotions are all over the place, I feel less scared to make mistakes, I have lots of terrible ideas and want to do them even if I know they're bad ideas, etc.
So after I came out as trans, I thought "well I have to be a girl now. I have to wear dresses and makeup and be pretty, etc." And yes, I do want to be pretty and all that still, but I also wanna be cool, dark, edgy, etc. I want to be what my cousin was when she was a teen. I am 22 but feel like I'm 13.
So I saw this tweet the other day...
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And this awakened something in me. This tweet is 100% who I was as a kid. I would be terrified to go in there as a child. But imagining being friends with a scene kid and them asking me to come in with them and holding hands because I'm too scared, THIS! This is what's been missing in my life ALL OF MY LIFE!
I spent my entire life being too scared of everything, trying my best to make my parents proud, please as many people as I can, etc. But I now hate my father, and I like my mother less then I did as a kid because she always excuses his actions. I needed what Hot Topic was, but I never had it, nor did I have any emo/scene kid/goth friends to help me break out of this pressuring mold that I had made myself.
So I thought the other day "I wonder if I could open a Hot Topic in my town?", but that was before I realized that Hot Topic isn't what it used to be. And while, yes I would visit it nowadays still, knowing what it once was, I would be sad everytime.
Now, why would me, a 22 years old trans girl artist who doesn't know what she wants to do with her life, be talking about Hot Topic in a long rant post on Tumblr in the year of our lord 2022?
Because I want the old Hot Topic back! Well, I don't want them to change back to what they were, it's a corporation and they'll do what's best for benefits no matter what the peoplr say.
What I truly want is a store that's just like what Hot Topic used to be! A haven for all the scene kids, emo teens, goth kids to shop and feel at home even for just a few minutes. Some place dark that parents will warn their children about but has a very cool atmosphere once you enter that world!
I looked quickly, and I'm not sure I was able to find any store that is exactly what Hot Topic used to be. So my next thought was:
Make your own!
It seems so obvious now! If you can't find the store you want, do it yourself!
I work at a grocery store as just a simple cashier, but when I got there, we were so understaffed that we were missing even a manager. So while we were going through new managers after new managers, many of them wouldn't do all the work they were supposed to do, so I became a "supervisor", although not officially. The boss never asked me to, but I just started doing part of the work of one one day and now other cashiers come to me with questions they would usually ask supervisors, I take care of writing everyone's break whenever the break sheet is empty, etc. I realized that I also enjoy doing that? Paperwork is fun to me somehow.
I also have infographic experience since I an going to school for cinema/televisual preprod, prod and post-prod, and infographics are a huge part of it.
That plus, I also am an artist, and I love listening to people.
So I already have lots of skills that would help woth running a small store, and as I always wanted to leave my mark on a small demographic, I feel like this would be perfect for me!
The main problem is that opening a store is very hard unless you are already rich, or sponsored. Sure you can get a loan, but those are crippling for years.
Another problem is well... Everything else. I have no idea how to run an actual store, how to get items to sell, how to get a location, etc. etc.
So yeah, that's just me ranting. If you wanna join me and have skills and/or money, hmu! /hj
For real tho, my brain is just a mess lol
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relamune · 1 year
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using the questions from here with Hauser :> Didn't answer all of them as I didnt have thought out answers for some but ah well.
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how does your muse get local news and updates on current events? are they up to date with all the latest goings-on or do they prefer to avoid it altogether?
He doesn't really keep up to date with local news for no other reason than he just doesn't care enough to go out of his way. He's absolutely the type to see news articles on twitter days later, shrug about it, and then return to his day. Unless it affects him or his loved ones, he couldn't care less.
did your muse grow up with any particular television shows? do they have a favorite, or a memory tied to these shows?
There were absolutely shows he watched as a kid though none really stuck with him at the time as he was too caught up in the gang life during his early teenage years. Actually, it wasn't until his adulthood that he came to appreciate cartoons. He usually binge watches old shows (think like rugrats type old school) while he's stoned, he finds them more entertaining.
how much effort does your muse put into their costume for halloween parties and other dress-up events? do they have any go-to costumes?
He absolutely hates dress-up events if we're talking fancy dress parties. He would stick out like a sore thumb for MANY reasons there. Halloween, though, he loves though he wouldn't admit it. His effort usually depends on if he joins a costume contest or not that year. If he does, he'll go all out. If not, walmart clearance is fine.
does your muse stay up to date with the latest fashion trends? describe their style. where do they typically buy their clothes? who was their first celebrity crush?
He dresses like he's straight out of the early 70s rock scene. Absolutely not, he has no idea about fashion trends and thinks a lot of the present day stuff is pointless. Take this with a grain of salt, though, as he was absolutely a Hot Topic Mall Goth in his early teen years so. As for the celebrity crush, I wouldn't say he "crushed" on anyone in particular but he definitely vibed with Siouxie Sioux & similar musicians.
what would your muse's bio say if they were on a dating app?
He'd be the type to have a shirtless bathroom mirror pic ngl. Lots of blurry were-form selfies too. Bio would be something along the lines of :: " Werewolf4Werewolf, Pansexual, Gymbro, not interested in Packs, The only thing worse than my RBF is my mommy issues. dtf? "
Can probably guess he's not exactly popular on the dating apps lmao
what kind of phone does your muse have, and how customized is it? does it have a basic case or something more unique? is the screen cracked? do they have a popsocket or other accessories on it?
He definitely has something cheap that breaks very easily, which is evident by the large crack on his screen from one end of the phone to the other. He's had it for years and until it finally completely dies on him, has absolutely no interest in getting a new one. It still works so its still good. He doesn't have a case but he does have a lil bat charm on it that makes him think of Ambrose.
who was the one family member your muse always looked up to, if any?
His aunt by FAR as she was the only one willing to actually sit down and talk with him and hear him out on his issues. Dude still has a lot of anger issues he's working through but talking with Solange helps him rationalize a LOT. She's the only one in his family he really gives half a fuck about.
if your muse drives a car, have they personalized it in any way (bumper stickers, things hanging from the rearview mirror, etc.)?
He doesn't drive, he can't afford a car. If he can't get there by way of his wolf form then it's public transit all the way. If he could, he'd try to avoid the latter though.
if given a choice between having a night in or spending the night out on the town, which would they most likely choose and why?
Night in. There's less people there. Occasionally he might opt for a bar or a club but it's not really often he does. Otherwise it's Ambrose dragging him out to explore the city.
what are your muse's favorite scents, and what do they associate them with?
He loves that smell just before it rains and the smell of burning wood. It gives him a cozy campfire feeling. He's also finding out he's slowly enjoying the scent of a specific brand of cologne that Ambrose wears but that one might be a bit too obvious.
what kind of shopper is your muse? are they a slow, methodical shopper, a list-maker, or a grab the items and go kind of person? how long do they usually spend getting their groceries? how long do they spend clothes shopping? do they use changing rooms?
Hauser absolutely is not the type to take his time shopping. He knows what he's there for and nothing more. In and out quickly is his preferred way. As for clothes shopping, he usually seeks out thrift stores or secondhand shops. He'll use changing rooms as he's too concerned about wasting money.
if something bad happens, who will your muse call first?
Depends on the situation. If he's in trouble/hurt, he's calling Ambrose. If he needs advice or to vent/rant/etc, he's calling his aunt.
if your muse was made into an action figure, what would their five catchphrases be?
"FUCKING BITCH." (it is quickly discontinued) what are your muse's biggest fears, and what caused them?
Abandonment despite the fact he's usually the first to run away, as has been proven several times throughout his story. As for why he's like this, simply it is all he's known not to trust anybody. It usually ends in him getting physically hurt or his friends murdered.
does your muse know how to fight? describe their fighting style. if someone was threatening them and about to attack, how would they respond?
He can fight, yes. He doesn't have a particular "style" of fighting, just very much Bite Them Before They Bite You. He only fights in his were-form tho as claws+fangs are a lot more effective.
will your muse eat at fast food restaurants? if they're on a time crunch, what type of food will they grab?
Oh fast food is his jam (totally not because he never learned how to cook). His go to is usually just a burger & fries
did your muse's parents pass down any quirks or habits that your muse now does? what are they?
If they did, he's not aware of any. His parents cared for him while at the same time let him do whatever he liked. (which ultimately led to him being a rowdy teen that got involved in gangs but I digress). They could have been far worse parents but they could have been far better too rather than leaving their only child to deal with his own emotions & issues.
does you muse like road trips, or would they prefer to fly in a plane? what are their thoughts on roadside attractions and tourist traps? when visiting new cities, do they prefer to see the most popular sites, or pretend to be a local and blend in?
As someone that was on the run for awhile for two separate incidents, he highly prefers staying home. He likes the stability he's built for himself. If he ever went on a trip, he'd be too anxious the entire time to actually enjoy himself as he associates long distance trips with those two times he was trying to escape.
what does your muse's bedroom look like? is it cluttered or clean? do they use the overhead lighting, or use lamps and other things to provide a better ambience? do they make their bed every morning or leave it unmade?
Messy but in a maximalist sense? Lots of vintage old heavy rock memorabilia & posters & such, things like that. Everything has a place and everything is in it's place & if its ever "cleaned", it'll feel messy to him since he wouldn't be able to find anything. He's also not really the type to make his bed but sometimes he'll smooth out the wrinkles. Sometimes. He's usually always burning some type of incense, usually patchouli.
is your muse a 'this is a really nice box, i should save it' kind of person, or do they tend to throw things out no matter what?
He's not a hoarder but he definitely collects a lot of things, definitely evident in his home by all the knick knacks and tiny things he has. If he likes it, he will try to get it.
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literarydemerit · 2 years
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Here's a philosophical question of the day: do you think trollfic like that of the olden days could develop in the current state of fandom culture? Nowadays if I see trollfic it tends to be of the My Immortal-derivative kind, but what if My Immortal and the like didn't come out until way later? These are the things I wonder about sometimes...
I mean, if My Immortal came out today I think it'd be very different, because My Immortal is very much a product of its time. It's quite grounded in mid-00s emo teen / mall goth culture, there are plenty of references to music that had just come out at the time (or had come out recently and was still very popular), and so on. If someone wrote an equivalent story in 2022, it probably wouldn't be a Harry Potter fanfic (HP isn't as popular as it was), different music and media would get referenced and it might not be about emo teens anymore (are teens still emo? I don't know, I'm old), the characters would be using different digital tech (Ebony and co. use flip phones and iPods, nowadays kids their age would have smartphones), etc.
Also, Fanfiction.net isn't as popular as it once was; I think more people use Ao3 or Wattpad now, and I'm not sure what the badfic scene is like on either of those websites. It used to be really easy to find shit-tier fanfiction on Fanfiction.net, which I know because when I was a kid I used to go looking for it for fun. Blogs that did fanfic sporkings/MSTs were also more common in the 00s than they are now. I'm not sure fanfics get the same amount of attention for being really bad anymore.
I guess bottom line I'm not sure because I don't participate in fandom culture to the same extent or in the same way that I did when I was a preteen/teenager. The enviornment might just be too different now and I'm not sure a trollfic like My Immortal would take off now in the way that it did in 2006. If one did, it'd probably be completely different from My Immortal.
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Why We Shouldn't Hate On Scenecore
I want to talk about a very important subject, mostly because this has been on my mind lately. Forgive me if this doesn't sound coherent, as I struggle with severe brainfog half of the day due to a glandular disorder I have. I have these often heated discussions with my boyfriend about how we both see a problem in the "OG scene crowd" talking down and often even bulling scenecore kids. TW: Mentions of Eating Disorders, P*dophlia, Drugs, Alcohol, Victim Blaming, Bullying
I have been in the scene community since 2009, when I was 13 years old. I had the MySpace, I listened to all of the crunkcore and metalcore. I went to high school with at LEAST 15 other scene kids. Let me start off by saying that half of the kids these days claiming to be the OG scene kids aren't even or hardly are adults- meaning they were just babies/toddlers when the trend was actually a thing. And even then some of the ones that are my age or old (24+) that were would enough to remember what it was like in the 2000s online, are acting no better than their predecessors. Back when scene was first evolving on websites like Friendster and MySpace, the fashioncore emo kids HATED them cause they said "They're stealing our style.". They called them posers, made fun of their music, etc. Sound familiar? Let's go back a little farther...Emo kids were hated by BOTH the mallgoths and midwest emo kids. Midwest Emos said that they were stealing the label that didn't fit them. Mall goths claimed that they were stealing their look. How about Mall Goths? Trad goths hated them and said the same exact things.
You see, this is a never-ending cycle. But we all see them turn into their own thing right? My peers are being no better than those people that bullied us back then for doing our thing. And a lot of the time I see them using it as an excuse to justify their own behavior to modern teens. And that is just unacceptable. Why WOULD we want things to be exactly the same as it was 15 years ago? Do ANY of them remember the horrific amount of gossip? glorification of sex and constant peer pressure into grooming behaviors and normalizing pedophilia? What about the race to be the skinniest and encouragement of eating disorders? The racism? The self-destructive lifestyle of drinking and drugs? Ignoring the problems that were going on in our society and world? How about the victim blaming rape culture that happened all the time where everyone attacked the victims instead of the rapists??? Or are they all too young to remember that too...? Scenecore actually aims to DESTROY those core fundamentals that plagued the old scene and honestly, I WANT to see that shit die.
If it bothers you so much that kids who are BRAND NEW to the alternative scene are still ignorant about the things like music or fashion, how about we educate them and show them what we are about instead of harshly judging them. That's a way to get them to actually give our stuff a chance rather than avoiding it cause of the impressions we as people that represent the subculture have shown them. I have had far more success showing newbies my favorite bands than any criticizing kids on not knowing what "real emo" is has EVER DONE. And even then, I didn't start off having all the clothes and the cool hair. I didn't know many emo bands. I listened to what everyone else was talking about at the time. I had to go in and learn it on my own.
OG scene kids, we need to cut the shit out. We need to be more welcoming and celebrate that our subculture actually inspired the birth of a new one. We need to understand that they're still learning. We need to understand that Scene and Scenecore aren't the same thing, and that's okay! It doesn't need to be the same thing, it makes kids happy and that's what matters. We keep our own scene alive, and remember that we aren't where it dies either. I am quite frankly grateful that this scene DIDNT die in 2009 like we originally thought. It's still alive and well cause I think scenecore actually gets people talking about OUR scene too.
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netflixonyourcouch · 4 years
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I mean not for nothing dude, because I’m not like a scene kid anymore and I don’t need to like, defend the sanctity of emo or anything, but........ we’re letting anyone and everyone qualify 2000′s bands as “emo” - Fall Out Boy was not an “emo” band.  They were decidedly pop-punk, and then they just went full pop rock late into their career.  My Chemical Romance wasn’t emo either.  They were quite literally the scene version of Queen, and they flirted heavily with mall goth aesthetic, but they were not an EMO band.  
I’m not talking Rites of Spring/fourfa emo either.  I still mean fake scene kid emo, and even tho these were scene bands, they were not emo bands.  When I think of emo bands, I think of shit like Hawthorne Heights, Senses Fail, From First to Last, Armor for Sleep, Bayside, Silverstein, etc - some of this stuff would later be considered “post-hardcore” as post-hardcore relates to what people call “screamo” really the line between emo and screamo was closer than people thought.  I don’t consider Hawthorne Heights a screamo band.  I consider them an emo band.  I consider a band like Fear Before The March of Flames as a screamo band, but even they were also emo as fuck (early career).  I would also consider Trophy Scars more of a screamo band.
Look, point is, don’t try to throw obvious non-emo bands into emo.  Panic at the Disco is not emo.  Fall Out Boy is not emo.  My Chemical Romance is not emo.  Paramore is not emo.  Stop trying to shoehorn in liked and well-popular SCENE bands into emo, because it’s not the fucking wave.
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41288461922 · 4 years
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Sure, there are similarities between e-girls and scene girls, but e-girls have an aversion to ugliness, experimentation, and imperfection that most scene (and goth, emo, Hot Topic, indie, EGL, etc) girls never had!  Like ... idk 2000s “counterculture” looks may have still run on a similar beauty hierarchy, but like the scene girls/kandi-kids/goths (mall or otherwise)/indie/hippie boho kids & punks COMMITTED! Idk if we blame people knowing how to do their makeup better, better tech/tech knowhow, anxiety over imperfection ... or what, but the kids are practically minimalists! Everything is too clean! Anyways my preferred teen Internet subculture are the kids who painstakingly recreate historical dress, even as I am like “stay away from the Pre-Raphaelites, my loves! The colours are good, but the subtext is bad!”
Like idk scene kids were much more maximalist & even when they looked ~*bad*~, it was very much a rebuke to mainstream beauty standards. So it mattered less that you looked *good* so much as you looked like something else entirely! Like there def. was a market for “hot and weird” (see: Audrey Kitching,  Kat von D, Kiki Kannibal, Alison Harvard ... who probably as CreepyChan was the OG e-girl) & “inspired by anime, Japanese culture, goth looks, etc” but while 2000s weirdo maximalism was done with a very. heavy hand, e-girls are positively timid & overly perfectionistic by comparison! But I think they’re less informed by 40s/50s/60s pin up & mod type looks & 80s deathrock & goth, and more 70s, 90s, and early 2000s nu-metal & hip hop/Hot Topic Goth with a lighter hand. Like scene kids were still obsessed with their own image & what other people thought of them, but it felt less “do I look hot to you?” and more “Look at this insane thing I did! I’m edgy! I’m so (whatever) I can get away with anything!” ... or like ~*PLUR*~, Idk e girls look like they’re terrified of looking “wrong” or like they “care too much”, or like are “too earnest” & I just want to shake them and give them proper eye of Horus eyeliner & overprocessed pink hair, filters be damned! More is more, darlings!!!
Like e-girls are basically the equivalent of when the terminally basic of the 2000s discovered the last dregs of hipsterdom & dandy revivalism, slouchy beanies & women wearing fedoras ... cute, but no commitment! E girls just remind me a lot of the girls that used to date my emo dude friends. Very pretty in a “normal” way, but they wanted to fit in with the “weirdos” but didn’t quite have the same driving animus, so they would make these very minor changes while still retaining that kind of easy-to-interpret prettiness & docile cuteness that likely drew said emo dude friends to them in the first place! I was a goth that morphed into some weird I don’t even know what ... I used to get in the clip in streaks & would dye my hair dark purple on occasion/ the weirdest colour I could without bleach that didn’t mess with school policy. A lot of e girls mine cybergoth but they aren’t cheery enough or brave enough to go all the way there! Also I don’t think people can get away with dreadfalls now!
It’s like Slutty Emily Strange mixed with Margot Robbie’s take on Harley Quinn from Suicide Squad but with some anime/ cosplay/cam girl/ Baby Spice/ EGL influence. Basically it’s like a more cleaned up Mall Goth that is a lot more self consciously doll-like & sexy than even what most Mall Goths did! Like originally “e girl” was supposed to be an insult for like pretty girls who are gamers, like anime/manga,  etc. but kind of morphed into a descriptor for a kind of goth/emo lite look for girls on TikTok. It’s sort of like if Kinderwhore, and Pop Punk/Pop Emo looks of the 2000s were filtered through anime and manga...and you added a *splash* of kandi kid, but just barely.
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I was reading the Wikipedia article about transgender people and it talks about what it refers to as "early onset dysphoria," and "late onset dysphoria," like, okay... if you experience dysphoria that started later in life, or you came to terms with your identity, or had a change in identity later in life, that's valid, but reading the descriptions in the article, I can't help but feel like they might suffer a bit from a lack of trans input...
The way they read, it acts like trans women who experience dysphoria and feminine identity and gender early in life are all shouting about it and trying to cut our dicks off in the shower/tub, and trying on our mom's clothes and begging for dresses at the age of 3, and like, no..
I have experienced dysphoria as long as I can remember. I didn't ever try to cut my penis off back then, but I was intent on hiding it, wishing it would go away. My parents thought this was weird and tried to encourage me to be "proud" of it. I thought this was weird When I found out my mom didn't have one, I wanted it gone even more. I could no longer rationalize it away as awkward, and weird feeling, but necessary for peeing. When I asked what had happened to hers, my parents said "Girls don't have those." This broke my tiny heart, because according to them, it meant I was a boy, which was the last thing I ever wanted to be. I hated boys. I thought they were gross, mean, and all around horrible. When my parents made me socialize and spend time with little boys my age, I hated it. I wanted to be away from them, back home where I could cloister myself in my room. At the time, I felt like my older half-brother was just the worst. When my older half-sisters got to take time away from their mom to come visit, it was the best. They didn't feel like bullies. They treated me like a little person. 
When I started school, I immediately ingratiated myself with the other girls, and distanced myself socially from boy-world as much as possible. Most of my friends were other girls, and I avoided socializing with the boys like the plague. To me, they seemed gross, mostly dim, and like bullies. There were a few boys in the gifted program with me who seemed different, but they were the exception rather than the rule. Basically, I saw the majority of boys as less like me in every way, and the other girls as more like me, and much more pleasant and safe feeling to be around. It's my understanding that a lot of other girls feel this way too, so I guess this makes sense. And for the record, yeah, I absolutely wished I could've asked my parents for clothes and jewelry like the other girls wore. I was jealous as all get-out. I wanted belly-shirts, jelly shoes, skirts,chunky bracelets and necklaces... I just knew better than to ask...
Going to the Sanrio store at the mall with my sisters when they visited was like a dream. I wanted everything cute and girly in the store, but the only thing that felt gender-neutrally safe enough to ask for was a foam lizard on a walking wire with pink sunglasses. Going shopping anywhere was still torture. I remember vividly, seeing the girls' clothes, feeling this aching inside, wanting to ask for any of it, all of it, for skirts, jelly shoes, bracelets, necklaces, Lisa Frank backpacks... I just knew I couldn't. I knew that if I did ask, I'd be punished, or that at the very least publicly reprimanded and made to feel like there was something wrong with me, because boys didn't get to wear those clothes, or get those accessories, no matter whether I *felt* like a boy or not. All the same, I wanted it all, inside, I *needed* it all. I felt *ANXIETY* inside. I could feel my heart *POUNDING* in my chest, at my silence, *BEGGING* me to break my silence and ask before it was too late and we passed it by to go to the checkout. My whole body felt weak, wibbly, staticy... but I knew better. I just *KNEW* better so I never did. I managed to ask for one notebook with rainbow-space dolphins on it. That was about all I felt safe asking for. I don't remember if it was Lisa Frank or not, but it made me happy.
Anyway, growing up, my parents never really heard me voice my dysphoria, aside from a simple nod of my head when they asked me if I was "ashamed" of my penis in response to the way I always covered it whenever I was naked, and rushed to put on underwear. I remember crying about it once when they basically detained me from my usual rush to cover myself in the fabric, seemingly trying to figure out what was "wrong" with me, why I was so averse to my bottom-half being naked after bathing when they were both naked But aside from that, they got none of the "typical" "signs" that cis people seem to think are somehow just *UNIVERSAL* to a trans youth. I didn't try on *either* of my parents clothes when I was little. To this day, I still don't get that whole concept. I guess maybe I just saw myself as my own person and less like I was destined to grow into a copy of one of them or the other.
Growing up, I didn't really know much about trans people existing, I didn't know there was a word for it. I remember hearing a joke about a "Sex Change" once in some movie or TV show, and because it was treated as a joke, I didn't think it referred to anything *real* I remember watching a Crocodile Dundee movie, I don't remember which one, and seeing a scene which depicted the main character as heroic for sexually assaulting a trans woman in a bar, grabbing her painfully by the testicles until she collapsed... This only reinforced the idea that people with my kind of body weren't allowed to wear dresses. As the movie put it, she wasn't a "real" woman, she was "really a man," and her genitals served as proof, again, reinforcing to 5 year-old me that I wasn't "allowed" to be a girl. I found story-writing, art, video games, and eventually role-playing Dungeons and Dragons with my friends in high-school as my only outlets for the girl I was, who felt trapped inside a cage of a body I hated, not only for feeling wrong, but for denying me my identity.
I was lucky again to be surrounded by other female friends. When I was about to start 4th grade, my parents decided to move, so I changed schools, and when we did, I was forced to socialize with boys and make male friends. Looking back, it makes me wonder if my guidance counselors had said anything about my chosen feminine socialization, essentially if they had "found me out," for almost exclusively making friends and socializing with other girls. I don't know if that was the case or not, but they were intent on pushing me into friendships with the boys in the neighborhood we were moving into. It didn't work though. A girl moved in next door, and she became my closest friend. I guess my parents left me alone about it because they, and all the kids on the bus figured we were dating, and yeah, I thought she was cute, but there was no return interest. We were just friends, and I loved it that way.
We started hanging out playing this game with all my dinosaur toys where we would give them all names and complex personalities and characters and life stories, and basically role-play out their lives as though they were in some soap opera/reality show. I guess it was kind of like the way a lot of girls play with dolls, we just used dinosaur toys. It was kind of my idea at first, but she got really into it with me and we'd play like this basically every day after school until we got more interested in video games. Even then, we still split time with the dinosaur toys, and I don't think we ever really stopped until late in middle school.
Middle school was a weird time for me. I had started to feel like a social reject/outcast in 4th and 5th grade, but Middle School just got worse. I got these bar-framed glasses that didn't really help matters either. The other kids had started bullying me for my feminine mannerisms, the way I walked, talked, cocked my hips out standing and leaning, used my hands when I talked, carried them in front of me, etc. back in fourth grade, but it just got worse in middle school. Everyone assumed I was a gay boy, and they treated me with that violence. Often it was social, sometimes it got physical, until at a point, I'd had enough, and decided to beat the crap out of one of my bullies to say enough was enough. Everyone said I fought like a girl because I attacked with my legs, but I really didn't care. People compared me to a girl all the time, and I guess it was supposed to bother me, but it never did. Nothing in me wanted to be masculine, or saw femininity as a negative.
When I got to high school, I sort of made my own crowd with a few of the other nerds, two guys I'd known in elementary and middle school, with the addition of one of their older brothers I met, and 3 other nerdy girls, two of whom were goth like me, and we formed a D&D group. I was especially close for a time with one of them who rode my bus, and when we were turning 16 (her birthday was the day before mine), she convinced her parents to let us have a slumber party. We went to see Underworld, and came back to her place, where we hung out and listened to goth rock, burned incense, I got to try some of her hemp chapstick, and in the morning she asked if she could put me in some of her clothes and makeup. Hanging out at school, she and a few of my other friends would remark in a non-bullying, more neutral way on how they felt like I was "such a girl," and I'd just reply that I felt like a "Lesbian trapped in a boy's body." It was something I'd heard one of my older half-brothers say jokingly to his friends once, but I meant it sincerely. When she'd finished dressing me, putting me in makeup, and straightening my hair (something my parents wouldn't let me do), she showed me to myself in the mirror, and said "This is how I see you on the inside." I felt a way I had never felt before in my life. Looking at myself in the mirror, I felt beautiful. I didn't hate what I saw and wish I was different. It felt right, I felt at home. I wanted to stay in that dress and that makeup forever. I told her she was right. She started taking pictures though, and I couldn't deal with that. I cried and asked her to delete them, which she did. She was upset by this, and looking back I wish I hadn't, but I was afraid. Her parents caught us and disciplined her, saying it was inappropriate, and acting like they thought that being dressed up this way was why I was upset. The real reason was I was afraid of being bullied at school, punished by my parents, even kicked out of school.
I still didn't know trans people were a thing, anything at all about transitioning. At school I drew myself as a girl when one of my friends had drawn herself as a boy, and called it a "gender-bend." I made no secret to my friend that I wished that girl I drew was me.
When we played D&D, I started with a male character, a halfling druid, but when he suffered an untimely fate, I switched to two new characters, a female halfling rogue named Sarah, and an Elven witch named Delia, and I never went back. Delia had actually been written up, drawn, and played in a solo campaign before the death of my druid, but as time went on, she became my main in preference to Sarah, though they inhabited two separate campaigns, and really became an outlet for self-expression. I was goth, and obsessed with the paranormal, so was she, I wanted to be sensual, so she was a very sensual woman. I enjoyed swordplay, so she was a fencer. I loved dance, and wanted to dance, she was a dancer. If I'd been assigned female at birth, I wanted to grow to be a sex symbol, like Britney Spears, so she was. She was even a part time dabbler in music. Arguably she had more character and personality than any other character I ever played at the table. I loved playing the campaign she was in. When we did, I jumped up from the table. I threw on an accent. I threw on her personality, and walked around and basically played her actions in role-playing situations, and even in combat, when she did something really cool. My gaming group decided she was a "self-insert character" the Player's Handbook 2 for D&D 4E described as a character meant to represent a fantasized and idealized version of the self, and... she was. True, a lot of her is fantasy, I can't step into the Feywild to hop across a battlefield, or summon undead spirits or turn into a wraith, but for all intents and purposes, she was meant to be the woman I would be in a world where all that was real. She even carried my airheaded lack of common sense, my love of reptiles, books, getting drinks and having a good time, she was more of a rule-breaker, a rebel, and an all around "Bad-girl" than I would've ever believed I'd become in life, but eventually I did. My Dungeons and Dragons Group stayed together through college, and that was the place where I was most comfortable showing myself, even in this limited way, but still not knowing trans people existed, or anything about them until college when I got to go to a gay bar.
One of my friends brought me to Emerald City in Pensacola to see a drag show, and told me that she wanted to do drag king performances, and that I should try out drag performance as a place to unleash my "inner woman," or as she put it my inner Tarja Turunen. I always envied @Tarja. I wished and dreamt of a life where I could be a singer for Nightwish or some other similar woman-fronted hardcore fantasy metal project. So I agreed. I was so excited.
We weren't quite ready to perform ourselves, but the next show we went to, my friends asked if I wanted to dress up and I was thrilled. I borrowed some of my gf's clothes, which she was super-excited about (She had a thing for trans girls), did my makeup and we went. We had been talking about what my drag persona's name should be and my friend suggested that I use "Delia," the same name as my D&D character. She said it was obvious that character was basically me, and it was fitting, so that was my name for the night. I had the time of my life. I felt beautiful, I felt sexy, I felt free. It was a crowded show followed by a dance party. Lesbians were hitting on me, I felt like I could dance and move on the floor the way I wanted without being judged... I felt alive.
When we started doing shows, it felt like a night of the week to get out of my skin, and be myself. I wasn't a traditional queen, I didn't do camp makeup, or wear the outfits they wore, sometimes I even wore pants... I dressed goth, the way I wanted. I did my makeup in goth style, other queens called me "fish," said they thought I was "a real girl," when I did my first routines, tried to teach me the "right" way to do things, suggested I do some Cher instead of Nightwish and Within Temptation. I didn't care. I did things my way. I rocked goth metal, and Dresden Dolls pieces as Harley Quinn. I used it as my stage to either be myself and live my fantasy of being a metal vocal goddess, or portray my favorite characters. To myself, I wasn't a queen. I was me.
I remember one night in my early days I felt I was looking particularly bomb, looking in the mirror saying "Hello You," A hello to myself. I felt like a blossoming woman, opening up like a flower to my little Thursday night life. I still didn't really know what trans people were though. There was a bigender AMAB person working at the bar who had gone through some transitioning procedures, but we didn't really ask her about herself. I felt like it was private, and just used she/her pronouns for her, having been taught it was a sign of respect to do so for the other queens, and to expect other people to do so for me.
Eventually when my coworkers at the mall, and their friends working in the food court found out about my performances, they introduced me to a trans woman named "Debbie" who worked in the food court, and explained that she was born assigned male. The way they described her transition was a bit transphobic. "She used to be a man but then she got her penis turned inside out and now she's a woman." It set the stage for creating an fear of genital reconstructive surgery that would plague me for 6 years.
They didn't say anything about hormone replacement therapy or other procedures, and she never brought it up when we met. I felt it was impolite to ask about her business, and just treated her like any other woman. She gave me makeup, said "hi" when I saw her at the mall, but we didn't interact much outside of that. She called herself my "drag mom." I never learned anything about being trans from her, but she was the first trans person I ever met and knew was trans.
As time went on, I met another trans person named Sammy. She was a friend of a friend, they'd met at University, and I found out a little bit more about being trans. She had no plans on surgery, didn't talk about HRT, or anything like that. She gave me some old wigs. I learned about social transition from her, and my friend suggested that maybe a social transition might be right for me. I gave it some thought, started occasionally going out in public presenting as female. The first time was exciting and scary... It wasn't something I continued very much outside of going to night classes at Pensacola State before drag shows. I was afraid people would think I was weird. In addition my girlfriend at the time started expressing a desire to incorporate feminine presentation into our sex life, and it made me incredibly uncomfortable, and drove me away from female presentation. I didn't know what to call it at the time, but it was dysphoria triggering. Dressing up the way she wanted me to for sex, stuffed bra and everything would just remind me of how much I wasn't a "real" girl, and how much I wished I had been born a cis woman. At the time, I spent a lot of time talking to my friend about my feelings, and she suggested transitioning, but I remarked to her that I was sure it wouldn't feel real. Again I still had no knowledge of HRT, complete misconceptions of surgery... I told her that the only way I thought I would ever be happy would be if I could wave a magic wand or kill myself and be reborn as a "real" girl. (I didn't know the word "cis" at the time. I considered the two trans women I knew as women and respected them as such, but I felt like the only way I could be happy was if I'd been born cis. I wouldn't learn the realities of transition and hormones and surgery for another 6 years.
Eventually the drag shows at EC lost popularity though, and eventually stopped altogether. I lost my outlet, and felt like a chapter of my life had closed. Eventually the drag shows at EC lost popularity though, and eventually stopped altogether. I lost my outlet, and felt like a chapter of my life had closed. My girlfriend and I had broken up shortly before the shows stopped, and I started seeing a new person, who eventually came out as non-binary, but identified outwardly as a cis woman at the time.
We had actually first met through my nextdoor neighbor right before high school started. We went to a football game together in high school, flirted a bit here and there, they'd gone off to a career in adult film and dance after graduating and had just come back home. Eventually, when I came out, they were very supportive, but at the time we started dating, they wanted to "man" me up. When they brought me home to her parents, they said "Are you sure that's not a girl," and they set to work altering my wardrobe. They pushed me to be more masculine in behavior, treated my feminine behaviors less like they were part of my femininity, and were instead something I needed to "outgrow." Wanting to please them, I started trying to put on a mask of masculinity, but I never felt like it stuck, never felt like it was anything but a transparent act. Eventually they left me for a super macho marine, and I spent many nights crying myself to sleep. I couldn't figure out what to do. I told them I could be more masculine for them, that I'd do all sorts of things to make myself more manly, beef up, whatever it took, all the while hating the very idea more than anything. I just wanted them back. At the same time, I cried myself to sleep thinking that maybe I should just "get a sex change" as I put it, but bemoaning the idea of walking around, feeling like a freak, with a boob job and a sensationless inside-out penis that looked nothing like a vulva/vagina. I thought I'd still smell "like a man," my boobs would look fake, my "vagina" would just be a sensationless hole, I felt like bottom surgery was just for people who wanted penis-owners to be able to have sex with them. I didn't think my vagina would be "mine." None of this was true, but it was what I'd been taught about trans people, and it left me in despair. In addition, dating them had been such an intense psychological experience for me, specifically with regard to my transness. I saw in them everything that was the woman I wished I was. They were bold, sexy, shameless. They were a dancer. They had this dominating power and presence when they walked in a room. They knew what they wanted in life, and they got it. At the same time, they were a free spirit, they went where their whims and the wind took them. They dreamed big and lived big. I wanted to be them, so much, on every level, I felt like I had begun to just live through them, wishing I was them, and being apart, it was like I had lost my sense of self. Being with them was like I had found myself, living in another person, being away from them, too scared to be the woman I was inside, the woman I wanted to be, the woman I saw personified in them in so many ways, I was broken, and I almost killed myself.
Instead of transitioning, I turned back to dating to see if I could found what I lost in another person, and it began an incredibly unhealthy relationship I eventually married into. While we were together, I wanted her to be me for me, I wanted to mold her into the woman I wished I was. I wanted to live vicariously through her. It's something I'm incredibly ashamed and not at all proud of. While we were together, before we got married, I became re-acquainted with a friend I'd had in elementary school gifted who had come out as a transgender woman and was planning her own transition. Other friends of hers had seen or heard about my drag performances while that was a thing, and referred them to me for tips on clothing and makeup, but I honestly had a lot more to learn from her.
Other friends of hers had seen or heard about my drag performances while that was a thing, and referred them to me for tips on clothing and makeup, but I honestly had a lot more to learn from her. Even though she hadn't started HRT, she was the first person to teach me that hormone replacement therapy was a thing, and direct me to websites where I could learn more about HRT, and vaginoplasty, and even see my first actual photos of actual vaginoplasty results. It was life changing. For years, all that had held me back were fears rooted in ignorance and misinformation spread by a transphobic society. Those results I saw weren't just a penis turned inside-out. That surgery was more than a science, it was an art-form.  got to read up on vaginoplasty and learn that it was carried out with care, and attention to detail, that my parts were the same basic building blocks, built into a different shape, and that my vulva and vagina would feel, look, and function normally. I learned that nerves were preserved and sensation was there, aesthetics were there, that I'd have a clitoral glans, labia, external sensation, internal sensation, muscular control, and even some wetness from hormones. I learned that hormone replacement would help me grow natural breasts, and change the distribution of my facial and body fat, and even change the way my body smelled. I went to my (then) fiancee, and was so excited to share all this news. She'd been respectful of my friend's pronouns and very friendly with them, and I thought she'd be supportive of me too. She wasn't.
She told me she'd "signed up for a man," and to "shove it back in the closet or else." I'll never forget those words. We got married a little over a year later, but a few months in, when I came out as bigender her family got violent and things started falling apart. She grew distant and cold, snappish whenever she came home to find me presenting as female, it was obvious she was displeased and wanted me to know it. I told her there'd be more days like this coming, and before long she wanted a divorce.
The up side is that I was free to explore myself more, and I very quickly fore-went the idea of being bigender, as it just wasn't me. There are tons of valid bigender people, but no part of me wanted to continue living as a man. I came out as a transgender woman shortly thereafter once I had decided that I wanted to transition socially, and medically with HRT and GRS. That started it's own rough road, but just coming out and making the decision to transition gave me such a sense of wholeness. I guess you could say I'd known who I was for a long time, really on some level my whole life, but I'd been ignoring it, running from it, trying to compromise it, and at the age of 26 I finally accepted myself. To my closest friends, it came as no surprise. "About time," "Took you long enough," They were happy for me and supportive. For some people in my life, denial was the chosen route of coping. For some, who hadn't known me on as deep a level, somehow even for my own mother, the easiest route was to deny it, write it off as something I was doing to please the new partner I started seeing after my ex-wife, act like it was out of the blue, couldn't be true. I feel like that's similar to the experiences of a lot of trans women who come out in life, whether they experience "late onset dysphoria," or whether they simply didn't have the knowledge that trans people existed, the words to use, didn't feel safe expressing...
For me, my dysphoria was there as long as I could remember, I knew I didn't want to be a boy, my body felt foreign, especially my penis. Any idea of becoming traditionally "masculine" hit me with a sense of dread. I just imagined that all boys must want to be girls. Maybe I just had early onset dysphoria, and didn't have the knowledge to identify what my feelings were, the words to express it...
I know I didn't feel safe even once I found some level of expression in High School, even before I knew what transitioning was, outside of confiding in my closest friends. When kids bullied me thinking I was a gay boy, I couldn't stand it. When they just called me out for being feminine/girly, I never really cared. I didn't see it as a negative. I saw it as me. I saw nothing to be ashamed of, but for them it was a cause for violence. To a lot of cis people from the outside though, especially people who don't know me as well, I feel like it would be easy to look at how I came out later on in my 20's and mistake me for experiencing "late-onset" dysphoria. Really I don't like the term...
I don't like the term, or the way it's defined, or talked about. I feel like it erases experiences of dysphoria that many trans people have experienced for a lifetime and simply not had the language to express. When the Wikipedia article on transgender people talks about "Late-Onset" dysphoria, it makes note to say that trans women who come out in their adult life may be more likely to associate sexual feelings with presenting in women's clothing... And I feel like that needs to be addressed, because a lot of women's clothing that you find in adult life is *DESIGNED* *SPECIFICALLY* to sexualize women's bodies, and frankly I find nothing wrong with a woman who's trans feeling sexy in sexy clothes.
And I feel like that needs to be addressed, because a lot of women's clothing that you find in adult life is *DESIGNED* *SPECIFICALLY* to sexualize women's bodies, and frankly I find nothing wrong with a woman who's trans feeling sexy in sexy clothes. Plenty of cis women feel sexy in clothing that are designed to look sexy, and I find nothing wrong with either of these things. There's nothing wrong with being confident, or a woman feeling like she can own her sexuality and be sexy.
Women are the only gender who literally have clothing designed and marketed at us specifically FOR SEX. Let me say that again: We literally have entire sections of clothing at the store designed JUST for sex. At the same time, women's clothing in general, especially for young adults is made specifically to evoke sexuality. It accents curves, fits tight in all the "right" places. It shows off assets. It's covered in symbols of sexuality and romance. And this is also the culture young women are brought into. To look at ourselves, and the clothing rack, and ask "How can I make myself sexy?" "How can I make a mate want me?" "What accents my tits? My ass? My legs?" When you grow into that slowly, I feel like it's a bit less of a shock, but when you just get thrown into that world of skinny jeans and push-up bras and plunging necklines, stockings, fishnets, leg-shaving, and adorning accessories, where even the baggy sweatpants are fuzzy and say "Juicy" on the ass... It's pretty easy to see where one can have a bit of a shocking "Damn, I feel sexy like all the time" reaction, especially before HRT, and you know what, there's nothing wrong with that...
It's perfectly acceptable for a woman to feel sexy in her own skin, and if she's wearing clothing she feels confident and sexy in, then fuck, it's even perfectly normal for her to feel arousal with that confidence... The problem is that society is too quick to demonize women's sexuality, discourage us from *owning* feeling sexy, or enjoying it. Unless it serves a man's pleasure, our sexuality is taboo. We are allowed to be sexy as eye candy, but if a woman *feels* sexy, that's too much. If a woman looks in the mirror and feels confident, or aroused, that's too threatening for a patriarchal society to deal with, but it's a perfectly normal female experience. Straight women get it, lesbians get it, cis women get it, trans women get it. "early onset," or "late onset" has nothing to do with it, but if someone is just finally delving into that world of sexy clothes as a young adult, or even an adult, It's an adjustment. On top of that, women who are trans who come out later in life may not necessarily know the taboos. They didn't grow up in a world of sexual repression the same way that other women have, where sexuality is shamed and shackled from the moment of puberty.
Frankly I feel like we shouldn't care. I feel like no woman should care. I feel like we should all feel free to rebel against the taboos and be as sexual on our own terms as we want.
Another bigger problem, however, and where I severely take issue with the way a likely cis author has chosen to talk about this as though it were in any way abnormal is that society *LOVES* to hypersexualize trans people, specifically trans women, and make it *weird.* And I really feel like all of this stems from the fact that cis people *DO* in fact see us as sexually attractive, which is perfectly normal and acceptable, but can't deal with it on the basis of ingrained transphobia, and have to blow it out of proportion.
That's why trans porn is one of the highest ranking search categories, that's why trans women all over the internet have our inboxes *FLOODED* with men sending dick pics and going on and on about how much they want to "worship a girl-cock." That's why even cis women end up thinking it's okay to just sexually harass trans women out the wazoo with "best of both worlds," bullshit. The truth is that cis people, even when they won't admit it, can't get enough of us and the sexual fascination they experience over the idea of a woman with a penis, or a man with a vagina, and from this side, let me tell you, it gets fucking old. The problem is that because of institutionalized transphobia, even though cis people *DO* find trans people sexually attractive, publicly, y'all aren't *ALLOWED* to. It's taboo, it breaks social conventions, it shakes the idea of cisheteronormativity to its core, and like many sexual taboos, this leads to fetishization, whether closeted or open, and hypersexualization of trans people whether we want it or not. So that when y'all choose to talk about us, or write about us, the focus is on anything and everything sexual y'all can find, and often, in order to maintain a transphobic status quo, to try to make it weird. Literally the way the article reads seems to say between the lines: "Trans women who come out later in life sexualize themselves and women's clothing and experience a fetish and that's weird." It seems *INTENTIONALLY* skewed to portray the sudden but normal adjustment to feeling sexy in clothing specifically designed by a society that sexualizes women to accent everything sexy about us that it can as something *BIZZARE* and *SEXUALLY DEVIANT*
It's normal to feel sexy in clothing designed to sexualize your body. All women experience this to some extent. It's just less of a sudden shock when you've had an adjustment period, and not something that's talked about all the time when it's normal. Basically, it seems like it's trying to portray this so called "Late-Onset" Dysphoria as being synonymous with a cross-dressing fetish, and that's just not okay, not at all.
Trans women who feel sexy in clothing designed to evoke a woman's sexuality aren't experiencing a cross-dressing fetish. They are experiencing a normal part of presenting as female in a society that sexualizes women and designs our clothes to evoke that.
The article also notes that so called "Late-Onset" Dysphoria experiencing trans women are more likely to identify as lesbians... OH BOY. Seems like they are legit *TRYING* to feed into the autogynephelia myth here...
First off, PLENTY of trans women experience attraction to other women, regardless of when our dysphoria started, or when we chose to recognize it as such. I have experienced dysphoria my whole life, and yet I also like women, and my experiences are far from abnormal. *MANY* trans women with early onset dysphoria are lesbians or otherwise sapphic. The problem is that our society is homophobic, and literally associates liking men as a trait of femininity, and liking women as a trait of masculinity, which is wrong. Orientation has no bearing on gender, or vice versa.
Because of this, a trans woman who likes men is more likely to be recognized as trans early on by her parents, friends, and family members, because liking men is one of those things that society looks at and says "OH! You like men! That's a WOMAN thing!" And this is a load of homophobic bullshit. Many men like men, many women like women. Not to sound trite, but we're here, we're queer, and trans or cis, we'd appreciate it if you'd hurry the fuck up and finally get fucking used to it. Conversely a trans woman who likes other women won't have her orientation flagged as a "reason" she should be looked at as more female, so it's easier to escape recognition by her family and friends.
Upon coming out, family and friends may even respond with confusion: "Wait, you like women? So why would you 'want' to *BE* one?" again, a load of homopohobic and transphobic bullshit. Cis gay men aren't gay because they want to be women, otherwise they'd be straight trans women. Lesbian women aren't gay because they want to be men, otherwise they'd be straight trans men. These are two totally different things. Trans people are sick of it, cis queer people are sick of it, and it's about time society stopped conflating who you like with what your gender is. Liking women isn't an inherently male trait. Liking men isn't an inherently feminine trait. Who you like isn't gendered.
Anyway, PLENTY of trans women who have known dysphoria and identified as women since an early age, whether internally or externally like women. So do many who come out later in life. Acting like it's some special artifact of "Late-Onset" dysphoria is erasive, transphobic, and when coupled with bullshit making it seem weird that a trans woman who comes out later in life feels sexy in sexy clothes, it's problematic as fuck. It seems hand-tailored to split trans women into two groups: The *REAL* trans women who wear our mommies' clothes and try to chop off our penises and demand dresses when we are 3 years old, and the *fake* sexual deviant "trans women" who come out later in life.
The reality is that *ALL* trans women are valid, some of us are lesbians, bi, or pan, and *ALL* women have a right to feel sexually empowered when we put on an outfit we feel we look bomb AF in. So, yeah. This "Late-Onset" Dysphoria bullshit is exactly that, bullshit. Not saying that some trans women don't start experiencing and recognizing our identities later in life, so not saying that late-onset dysphoria isn't real, some trans women don't experience dysphoria at all, and that's all valid. What I *AM* saying is that the way the Wikipedia article on trans women has been written (probably by a cis "expert") is dubious at best, ignorant, and transphobic at worst, and furthermore that the only people who have any right *AT ALL* to be *TALKING* or *WRITING* about late onset dysphoria are *SHOCK*: Trans people who experienced it and embrace that concept/narrative. You may notice that I put the "expert" in "cis expert" in quotes earlier. This is because there is no such thing as a "cis expert" on trans people. We are the only experts. Every trans person has more experience with transness than any cis person ever could.
We live trans lives, we experience them from day one. *WE* are the experts. *WE* are the ones who should be in charge of our narratives, and *WE* are the ones who should be deciding whether our dysphoria was "Early-Onset" or "Late-Onset," or even experienced at all.
For trans women who experienced dysphoria later on in life, came out later on in life, for those of you for whom it took years  to come to terms with your gender, you need to know you are valid. You're allowed to be who you are and love who you want. There's no time that's too late to know yourself, to come out, to start your transition, and you are allowed to feel sexy in whatever clothing you want, and should be free to do so without cis people acting like it's a fetish. You deserve to know that it's normal to feel sexy in clothes that your body rocks, and that you're no different from any other woman, "early-onset" dysphoric trans women, cis women, or trans women who experience no dysphoria, and just know their identity as women.
For cis people... Seriously, cut this bullshit out and stop acting like trans people are weirdly hypersexual or sexual deviants just because y'all want to hypersexualize us out of your own insecurities with finding us attractive. And stop acting like you know what is and isn't "normal" for trans people, or how we experience and express dysphoria. If anything a lot of what y'all term "Late-Onset" Dysphoria is more likely stories like mine... Stories of trans women who knew dysphoria early, but had no language for it, who knew we weren't boys, but also knew that we weren't allowed to be girls, who knew on account of y'all's transphobia that there were *CONSEQUENCES* to asking for the clothes we wanted... consequences for announcing that we were girls, that we felt like we were girls, that we were uncomfortable in our bodies and wished they were different...
Literally, I'm willing to bet that 90% of the time that a trans person comes out later in life, it's literally cis people's fault for creating an environment of hostility and violence towards trans people who do come out. If any repression comes with that, it's similarly also y'all's fault. If you want to fix it, then change trans-focused media to hire trans actors to depict trans people, and trans writers to write our characters and stories. Change the education system to teach about trans people in schools at an early age so that even if we don't learn at home, or have parents who want to prevent us from knowing ourselves, we can learn that we are valid, and be able to acknowledge that and communicate it early.
Seriously, you don't have to make us sexual. It can be as simple as "Some people who are labeled as boys at birth feel like girls and are really girls. Some people who are labeled as girls at birth feel like boys and are really boys." Very G-rated. and even better, throw in "Some people don't feel like either of those labels fits, and might be nonbinary, or not have a gender at all and be agender." "Some people feel like where they fit changes from time to time and are genderfluid." Actually talk about the word "gender" and what it is and means instead of copping out saying "it's a polite way to say sex," when sex and gender are two separate constructs. Let trans people be the ones who tell *Y'ALL* what our experiences are like instead of trying to guess from the other side of the fence based on what your existing transphobic institutions have spoon fed to you to make us seem "weird" and wrong.
Basically, if you're not trans, and you feel like going and typing on a public resource what you feel like we are and aren't, and how you want to define our narratives that you don't experience, kindly shut up, and let us speak for ourselves. We aren't yours to categorize and define, we categorize and define ourselves. It's kind of the essence of being trans. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
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scottielambchop · 5 years
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Pitch Please: Pt. 1
The game is simple. I reach out to my friends and ask them to give me a product and a demographic. I take 30 minutes to research the product and demographic and come up with an overlaying concept. I then flesh out each concept into a full campaign.
Here goes:
Head and Shoulders for Goths
Hide the Light - When you’re a goth, your image is everything. You set yourself apart with the unique juxtaposition of dark clothes and lack of Vitamin D. But you don’t want those colors to mesh (e.g. dandruff). Head & Shoulders will keep your darks dark and your dandruff absent. We could produce full-blown print pieces focusing on the pristine shoulders of goth kids’ black shirts. Maybe use quotes from famous bands (e.g. Friday I’m in Love, etc), or lines like “Stand Out for Other Reasons.” We could change the bottle color from the traditional white and blue to all black with a red streak, especially since the bottle top and icon already somewhat resemble a face with goth/emo hair. We could also create H&S listening rooms in places like Hot Topic, Spencer’s, or malls in general. These would be self-contained kiosks with decorated in all black and dark red. Popular goth bands could play through the area and you could get your hair washed with Head & Shoulders by a professional hairstylist.
What’s This? - What does a quirky goth love more than the combination of bondage pants and tank tops? The Nightmare Before Christmas. For this TV-driven campaign, we could license the characters of the Tim Burton classic—but with a little twist. We could use the famous scenes from the movie, but without snow. And at the end, we could overlay the H&S logo over the screen. For print, we could use stills from Christmastown and Jack in the Santa costume, edit out the snow, and use copy like, “No Flakes” with the H&S logo. We could put statues of the characters of the movie in warm environments, such as Atlanta, Austin, Santa Fe (especially), and San Diego, with the H&S logo. To further drive this point, we could put these statues in snowy areas with a heating mechanism around the area so any snow in the area would melt. Thus creating an even more unique look with snow everywhere else, except around these statues of Nightmare Before Christmas characters.
Something Different - The goth look is very important. It’s more than a fashion. Goths want to do their own thing, they don’t care about what the general public has to say. Often times you’ll see them proudly wearing full garb in the middle of summer. And they like it that way. This campaign will highlight their individuality in the face of the status quo, by focusing on their unique hairstyles and colors. Most people know H&S prevents dandruff, but they don’t realize that it’s also just a really good shampoo. The print spots will feature cropped images of unique goths from the forehead up with wild hairstyles and colors with taglines like “Head & Shoulders. Above & Beyond,” “Do(o) Your Own Thing,” and “Define Your Own Look” This could also transfer well into disruptive billboards. Same style; same tags, but the hairstyles could extend outside the traditional shape of the billboards. We could also further promote individuality by creating a new line of design-inspired bottles. All breaking the traditional H&S style guide and just going all out with colors and/or bottle shapes.
Famous Monsters - This is a pretty short and sweet concept. Goths love old monster movies and TV shows. So we bring em back. Our print campaign could use characters from shows like The Addams Family and The Munsters, etc. (famous characters with black clothing) and superimpose dandruff on their shoulders. We could use taglines like, “They Were Scary for a Different Reason” For the TV spots, we could use scenes from old, Paramount monster movies and Hitchcock films. We could use “tense” scenes where characters are screaming, but instead of screaming at the actual monster or murderer, they would be afraid of dandruff on their shoulders. (This would work especially well with the scene from Psycho) For the out of home spots, we could dress up bus stops like the famous shower from Psycho and place a bottle of H&S in there. We could line subways with Munster family photos (dandruff and all) and have the logo in the corner. We could even have H&S sponsored movie nights where they play old monster movies and episodes of the Munsters and Addams Family. We could even encourage them to dress up (similar to a screening of The Rocky Horror Picture Show).
H&S Pop - Maybe this is more of a personal experience, but a lot of the goths I’ve ever met have an odd affinity towards Asian culture, especially Korean Pop music, or K-Pop. So, we full-on K-Pop with this campaign. Get the elaborate pop stars, go for the crazy, epilepsy-inducing visuals, and straight-up Korean-style print spots. It would be wild, it would be different, and I’m pretty sure the goths would love it.
Gum for NRA Members
That Pop Pop Pop - When playing connect-the-dots between this product and that demographic, the first things that come to mind are the sounds. That satisfying pop that comes with both blowing a bubble and pulling the trigger. So we make an audio-centered campaign. The TV spots could be set in intense battles throughout history (Civil War, World Wars, etc.). Using Saving Private Ryan-esque cinematography, we could have the visuals go through battles (on land or by air), but before any rounds are fired, it would focus on the soldier or pilot blowing up and popping a gum bubble. Followed with a tagline like, “Lock and Load,” or “Certain Sounds Echo Through Eternity,” or something like that. Print and outdoor could also have similar images of gritty soldiers or pilots throughout history. Most of the images could be in black and white or dark coloring, but have the bubble coming out of his or her mouth a bright white, pink, or whatever the color of the gum. With the same taglines and the logo in the corner. Terrestrial/online radio would clearly be in use. Paint the same picture over audio and follow them up with the chewing gum pop. This is kind of a very loosely described campaign, but it’s the first thing I could think of.
Calm - Another thing I thought of was the raw emotion of having to use a gun. Though most situations would be high pressure, the person using the gun would also have to remain calm and collected. What does gum do? It takes the edge off to a certain extent. So why not focus on that? This campaign could go a lot of ways, but the most innocent and non-blatant way to go about it would be having it set in hunting scenarios. The TV spots would put you in the shoes of a hunter. Use the time to show the patience needed to hunt. The boring parts. The parts involving walking to different spots and tree stands. The parts where the hunter is just waiting. All while you can see the hunter is chewing on something. Suddenly a certified trophy comes across. The camera cuts to the face of the hunter. Wide-eyed, visibly shaken as he brings his rifle to his face. There’s a noise. The trophy deer or whatever gets spooked and starts running. The hunter is now sweating with the scope in his eye, the camera pans down to the hunter’s mouth as he slowly bites down on his gum to calm himself as he pulls the trigger. The hunter quietly smiles. The words “Keep Calm” comes across the screen with the name of the gum. Our radio spots could feature similar scenarios of high intensity calmed down by chewing gum. Whether it be hunting, playing sports, watching sports, protecting your family, or whatever. All ending with “Keep Calm.” The gum packaging could also come with little zen tips. Every time you take out a stick, there could be a little tip to keep calm printed on the inside of the foil.
Protect Yourself - Most people buy guns for the satisfaction of protection. They want to know, when shit goes south, they’re capable of protecting themselves and/or their families. So, what do we do? We take this same mindset and attribute it to protecting your teeth or bad breath. We can use rhetoric like “The Best Offense is a Good Defense” and “It’s Better to be Protected and Not Need it Than Need it and Not Have it.” You know, the same kind of stuff most 2A disciples spout off as a need for keeping their guns. The imagery can be a juxtaposition of grittiness with clean smiles. Sort of like the Orbit “Dirty Mouth” campaign, but with less humor. Video spots can focus on American heroes (cops, firefighters, members of the military, etc.) doing the dangerous jobs they do, with hints of clean teeth shining through. At the end of the spots, we use the tag “Keep Protected” and then talk about how the gum fights tooth decay, whitens teeth and fights bad breath. The print spots can use the exact same imagery, but be more of a focus on individual American heroes. This can be long-copy pieces profiling the heroic actions of specific individuals. In the end, we can talk about how, though it pales in comparison to these brave actions, is protecting our protectors.
Hero/Come Packing - Who doesn’t want to be a hero? Well, with this gum, you can. The campaign can make a hero out of anyone. This could be a fun, tongue-in-cheek campaign putting people in dire situations where they desperately need a stick of gum (first dates, family gatherings, etc.) and have a well prepared war-hero-type guy cut into the situation and provide a stick of gum. This could be a spokesperson-type character or we could have a different well-prepared individual come in each time. Regardless, the tagline would be “Come Packing” Print pieces could be longer, copy-driven spots focusing in great detail about the horrible situation and how this gum saved their skins. We could put up kiosks outside popular dates spots (movie theaters, romantic overlooks, bowling alleys, barcades, or wherever the hell kids go to smooch) and hand out free gum to whoever may need it. Though it may seem like this is geared towards kids and people looking for an intimate connection, I feel gun nuts would resonate with the hero character and the “Come Packing” tag.
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yutaya · 7 years
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Things About the Be More Chill Revival (Nov 12, 2017 performance)
This actually got really long so I’m putting it under a cut. Warning for Be More Chill spoilers below, I guess.
Before the show and during intermission they were running tweets from the audience on the backsplash
In the program there’s a spread that’s like yearbook photos with in-character photos and quotes
This is just an Exit 82 theater thing but on the wall were the heckling muppets
When Jeremy’s Theme started the silent “oh my god oh my god oh my god is this really happeninggggg” emanating from EVERYONE IN THE THEATER was physically palpable
Every time a new scene or song would start or when a character would enter the stage the crowd would cheer
Jeremy does not bump into Rich trying to escape the girls prompting the “don’t touch me, tall-ass!” line and the “boyf” writing. Instead, Rich actively seeks out Jeremy and shouts the line about not touching him, even though Rich is the one who just ran up and grabbed him from behind completely unprompted.
Rich also runs straight over to Jeremy’s chair when he enters play rehearsal even though Jeremy’s not even looking at him to start shaking him and humping his chair.
An interesting thing: Jake and Rich do not seem to be the same kind of friends here. In the 2015 version, we saw them greet each other coming in opposite directions down the hallway with a high-five-low-five sort of custom-bro-fist-bump, semi paralleling Jeremy and Michael’s secret handshake later in the same song, and start talking about the weekend or previous day or w/e and Madeline. However, in the 2017 version, much like Rich just ran up to and instigated the "Don’t touch me!” interaction with Jeremy while Jeremy wasn’t paying him any attention, Jake just walks right past them and Rich is the one who runs at him from behind, calling out the “Yo Jakey-D!” greeting and weaving his way into Jake’s space to get Jake to look at him. It definitely brings to mind the whole “Rich is a sad suicidal loser who wants to be a part of the It crowd so he got a Squip but honestly he’s still stuck on the outside looking in and even when everybody is talking about him and what happened to him and what he would want if he were here nobody even bothers to fucking visit him in the hospital - the first visitor he sees is Michael but Michael is only there for Jeremy and is an anti-social headphones kid so Rich has to wait for Jeremy to wake up to have someone to ask about what people are saying about him at school” thing
I know everyone ships Rich/Jake because best bros or something but honestly the person Rich seemed to devote the majority of his attention to in this version was Jeremy haha
For the first “Christiiiiiiiiiiiiine” part of More Than Survive, rather than loads of super Extra twirling and stuff by Christine, she was doing things like wiping her mouth with the back of her hand - things that normally might not be considered super attractive and highlighting how she’s super special in Jeremy’s eyes when other people would just see a random person.
She does get SUPER excited later when she sees the play sign up sheet though. Slams her hands on the wall to stare hungrily at it, dives to the ground to rifle through her backpack for a pen, and Jake lifting her up while they do contemporary dance poses lasts for the entire time Jeremy and Michael are singing her name.
When Jeremy has the verse about “why can’t someone just help me out” he legit sounds like he’s about to cry
On his way out after inviting Christine to the mall later, Jake pauses while passing Jeremy and lets him know that “Someone wrote Boy-Eff on your backpack” in the same sort of sweet considerate way that Christine did during More Than Survive. This is interesting because it 1. Shows Jake being kind (directly after putting him in a situation that might normally paint him as the love-rival-therefore-enemy - but, oh, fuck, no, he’s nice) and 2. implies that Jake does not know about Rich bullying Jeremy. See: Rich and Jake might not actually be close friends^
In the bathroom, when Jeremy says “aren’t you gonna wash your hands?” Rich walks up to him and pointedly RUBS HIS DIRTY PENIS HANDS ALL OVER JEREMY’S FACE AND CHEST
In Two-Player Game, Jeremy is standing up for the “favorite person” line, so Michael also stands up and walks over to tuck his head against Jeremy’s shoulder while mocking him. Jeremy shoves him away and Michael just stays with his body locked in the same position and lets himself dead fall onto the beanbags
Michael dabs during one of the first “cool in college” lines and it’s like “wow you ARE a loser”
They did this dorky pseudo dancing that was like amateur fighting moves like jump kicks and karate chops, and at one pint they were leap frogging over each other? dorrrrrrks
In the transition from Two-Player Game to the mall to go buy the Squip, Mario runs across the stage and does the little Mario jump like to hit a block and get a new item
By the way, Jeremy really does look SUPER awkward on Day 1. His striped shirt I thought was weirdly over a long-sleeve shirt even though the pattern didn’t lend itself well to that, but then it turns out they are one shirt?? It’s like that on purpose??? The Eminem shirt + vest combo really does look a lot cooler on him after that.
His body language is SO AWKWARD it was all very Evan Hansen
At the Payless, the drug dealers are these two goths so instead of the “sooooo Wolverine, right?” line it’s “soooo My Chemical Romance, right?”
The goth twins are speaking in unison in creepy computer voices and circling Jeremy and like - touching him while he squirms uncomfortably much like later during Do You Wanna Ride
They give him the entire shoebox for the one pill? Which I guess makes it less “???” for Rich to have the shoebox in his locker later”
When Jeremy is jerking around and yelping at the mall, Christine is asking what’s wrong, Jake is recoiling and someone (Jenna maybe? Our seats were really far away we couldn’t see anyone’s faces just their bodies) is recording, but when he escalates to screaming in pain they all just... get freaked out and run away? Leaving him alone on the floor even though he’s CLEARLY in major distress.
The squip stands with a very wide stance, like the standing version of taking up three bus seats. It’s a very obvious contrast especially in his first scenes to Jeremy in his hunched and close-legged position. When not standing, the squip is either crouching in a very predatory Gabe Goodman “I’m Alive” sort of way or lounging in a somehow very cool careless bad boy sort of manner.
When Jeremy is reciting the Squip’s story about Madeline and the shirt to Brooke and Chloe at the mall, he is making all the same arm gestures etc that the Squip is making - though more awkward in execution.
The “Hey Hamlet” actions were HILARIOUS. He literally collapsed over the table, then threw himself onto the floor like Draco Malfoy.
In Do You Wanna Ride Brooke and Chloe are basically dirty dancing on Jeremy and he looks SO UNCOMFORTABLE like he’s about to die and not in a “wow this is too hot my brain will explode” way more like an “extremely fucking terrified” sort of way
Brooke really drew out the “Pi~i~i~i~i~i~i~ink~i~ink~i~ink ~i~ink ~i~ink ah-Berryyyyyyyyyyyyy” riff for forever it was hilarious
Syncing with Rich’s Squip in the More Than Survive Reprise is... really really creepy? It gives of an extremely ominous mind-control sort of vibe like Rich is just Jeremy’s Squip’s puppet
In More Than Survive, everyone was dancing around Jeremy and he looked super awkward and uncomfortable - in the Reprise they do the same dance but this time Jeremy is dancing in sync with them all too.
The electric shocks seemed like they were happening extremely frequently in Act 1? Practically every 5 seconds in some scenes like literally every time Jeremy went to make some move or say anything or pause for too long or think anything at the Squip himself at all.
During Guy I’d Kinda Be Into the Squip talks for Jeremy a LOT. Basically everything he says and does is the Squip there.
When Jeremy does his whole Squip-assisted flawless recitation of his Midsummer part when Mr. Reyes tries to call him out, Brooke is so overwhelmed by his hotness that she drops her script. It just clatters to the floor while she stares at him.
The WARNING WARNING WARNING after Guy I’d Kinda Be Into Squip-controlled walk out is super robotic. A very distinctively robotic walk.
In “Upgrade” the Brooke and Jeremy scene is super sexual??? The Squip puts Jeremy’s hand on her boob while she’s talking. Jeremy draws it back and the Squip just puts it there again. Then the Squip makes Jeremy pull Brooke up against him in a very sexual sort of position. Jeremy jerks back and the Squip just makes him do it again. They end up doing this whole thing with lying on top of your partner holding them down, and then the person on the bottom flips the positions so they’re on top now, and it continues a couple more times so they’re rolling around on the ground with the Squip in control of Jeremy’s body the whole time, and it ends with Brooke straddling Jeremy and thrusting her hips with her head thrown back before he sits up and starts making out with her with her hips still going in his lap. It’s kind of a prolonged making out, too, complete with like... roaming hands by both parties.
Christine’s line “still I’m not sure what I should do” when Jake is asking her out is very clear and is presented like a soliloquy-type narration to the audience about her own feelings rather than as dialogue to Jake, before she agrees and he kisses her.
Some guy in the audience started moaning in distress preemptively shortly before Jeremy’s “optic nerve blocking: on” line
People around me were gasping at that line so maybe there were some people who didn’t actually know it was coming. Or they might have been superfans overwhelmed with emotion. Judging by the rest of what I was hearing from the other audience members the entire time, it’s probably the latter.
For the “optic nerve blocking” scene, Michael is standing alone on the upper level, where the Squip usually is. After Jeremy chooses to turn it on, the Squip walks up from behind him and touches Jeremy directly, wrapping his arms around Jeremy's shoulders - it’s the first time that the Squip is on the ground level alongside Jeremy and the rest of the people instead of alone on the second level just watching over all of them.
The moment Act 1 ended the audience EXPLODED into noise. It seemed like everyone simultaneously turned to their seat mates to start screaming about things. My brother was like “It’s been a long time since I’ve been in this sort of young teenage fangirl filled sort of environment.” Haha
At the Halloween party Rich is FULL OUT GLITCHING. His head and limbs keep jerking like a machine with a wrench in the cogs and he’s repeating “it’s Halloween” like a skipping record
The way he’s glitching here near the start of the party is very similar to the way Jeremy’s Squip starts glitching after the alcohol. It’s like the alcohol making Rich’s Squip glitch causes Rich to glitch in exactly the same way - like after 2 years his body and voice is just a manifestation of his Squip’s movements and words - like he IS the Squip and there is no Rich at all.
In Act 2, Jeremy really is just... walking and standing so much more confidently than Act 1? He looks extremely much more to be a normal, attractive guy. It’s very obvious in scenes when he’s talking to Michael, because we saw them having conversations in Act 1 where Jeremy was relatively comfortable since he was with his friend, but it’s still such a marked different in his body language and even the cadence of speech after having the Squip for a couple weeks. Again, it was very Evan Hansen vibes.
“What kind of slut do you think I am?” Chloe asks, while draping herself over the bed and pointedly spreading her knees and thighs open at Jeremy
Once the Squip makes Jeremy drink Chloe’s alcohol, the way it starts jerking around instead of being smooth for the first time is still pretty cool and collected / in control looking somehow - it looks like when a video chat is lagging and instead of smooth movement you get a series of jumpy still frames, but the person isn’t in distress or anything.
When Jeremy tells Michael to “Get out of my way. You Loser,” he literally shoves Michael aside with force and walks out, not slowing or looking back once as Michael crashes into the bathtub. Michael just...stays where he fell for the entire first part of Michael in the Bathroom
At the end when he’s in prime screaming mode he sings “it sucks you left me here alone” instead of “it’s sucks he left me here alone” - directing it at Jeremy directly
Christine talking about breaking up with Jake - she mentions the cheating but also outwardly calmly (remember she has mad gigantic feelings about most everything in reality) lists other reasons such as “we just don’t have ANYTHING in common”
When Rich is freaking out about needing Mountain Dew Red, he is glitching like crazy and he is only asking for the Red when he’s facing one direction, as if he has no brain activity when jerked into the other direction, but is repeating the request on a constant loop, it’s just that we can only hear it when he’s on the one frequency. Jeremy and Christine see him in obvious distress with his head like banging clearly without his control against the wall, which must hurt, and they just???? laugh at him?????? What the fuck, kids, why do you all keep abandoning each other in distress in this musical.
Jeremy and Christine actually have really great chemistry though I was like “wow ok I can ship this.” They make you feel it.
When Rich’s WARNING WARNING WARNING goes off he marches out of there in the same robotic way that the Squip marched Jeremy out after his own WARNING alarm after Guy I’d Kinda Be Into. This is further highlighted by the way the Squip marches Jeremy out in the exact same way a few seconds later after reviewing the footage from the evening.
During the Smartphone Hour there were three backup dancers in shiny clothing during the beginning verses with Jenna, Chloe and Brooke, like the old singers used to have.
When Jenna and Chloe sing the chorus that “Rich set a fire” the stage lights go red, orange, yellow and rippling like fire
After the fire, the Squip is full supervillian attire - Black Cloak, LED lights, the works. I couldn’t see it myself because I was too far to see anyone’s faces, but apparently also he gained digital face makeup here?
They really played up the computer effects in The Pitiful Children and The Play - in voices especially. Final Boss Jenna Rolan speaking at Michael at The Play sounded like full computer and not human.
Jeremy’s choreography during The Pitiful Children is super still. He gets shoved to the ground and he just stays frozen there looking up at all the dark squip figures dancing around him. They put him on the staircase and he just stands motionless, staring into the distance while they spin him around and the Squip cradles his head. At the end he lifts the shoebox above his head, but he’s mirroring the Squip’s actions again, like at the mall back before Do You Wanna Ride.
During the Pitiful Children also the Squip keeps putting his hand on top of Jeremy’s head with his fingers splayed like a puppet master. It’s not above Jeremy’s head, it’s resting directly on his skull.
When Jeremy is arguing with his dad before the Pants Song, Mr. Heere has JUST said he’s grounded and scolded him about taking the car (to Jake’s party) and Jeremy just. Very pointedly. Picks up the keys, jangles them in his dad’s face, and says “I’m going out,” like wow fucking slay.
Michael is shredding his Jeremy mementos instead of burning them, presumably because it’s easier for him to carry around a coffee can calling it a shredder than to pull a full Eliza Hamilton and set a fire on the stage (and burn down the house). Mr. Heere still tells him to stop sitting around burning incense though - because of the joint Michael was smoking while shredding all his stuff.
In the play when the Squip activates Jeremy’s kung fu mode to fight Michael, they stage it like a fighting video game with Jeremy enacting ridiculous combo jumpy moves while Michael basically does roll dodges and a cute fighting video game remix of one of the BMC songs plays in the background. I don’t remember which song it was now though.
The Two Player Game reprise involves Michael leap-frogging over Brooke and Chloe and jumping onto Jake’s back and just sitting there for a bit while Jake spins in circles
Michael does not get attacked by Final Boss Jenna? She’s standing on the 2nd level. After tossing the bottle to Jeremy Michael kind of just stands in the same place for the rest of The Play unmolested.
It doesn’t really seem like the Squip actually physically stops Jeremy from drinking the Red? The sound that we’ve been hearing so often this song when the Squip is controlling people isn’t present there. He just yells “you don’t want to do that Jeremy!” and Jeremy just. freezes. and asks why. Like he’s been so conditioned to listen and obey the Squip at this point that even when he’s actively trying to work against it he still knee jerk follows instructions.
The squipped people (except Jeremy) all had LED lights on their shoes during Pitiful Children and The Play. Christine has them too, but when she comes out into the middle of the zombie horde acting normal near the end of The Play, the main stage lights are on so it’s not really noticeable until the reveal that she’s Squipped too and suddenly her shoes are flashing.
The choreography for Guy I’d Kinda Be Into involved Jeremy and Christine slow dancing while everyone walked around them in a circle. They have the same choreography during the reprise, with the obvious implication that because everyone is Squipped now Jeremy can have the exact scenario he was fantasizing about earlier and this time Christine does like him instead of Cho Chang Jake
Everyone shrieks wordlessly and then collapses except for Michael whose yell is more like “AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH FUCKKKK!!!!”
After everyone collapses and Michael is standing there terrified the Squip is the only body still moving. He is dragging himself over the fallen bodies of the students as the lights go black.
In the hospital, Rich has NO movement. The full body cast doesn’t even allow him to turn his head to look at Jeremy when’s he’s speaking to him.
Michael does not pull the curtain to hide Rich from view as if that would do anything to stop him from hearing everything they’re saying. It’s not like Rich can so much as turn his head to look at them anyway.
In Voices In My Head, Christine is the one who surges forwards to kiss Jeremy, who is shocked for a second before getting with the program. They stand there and make out for an extended period of time while everyone else cheers and continues singing the song
When the Squip tries to call out to Jeremy he isn’t on the ground level where Jeremy and Christine walk past him. Instead, he stumbles his way along the upper level, where everyone except Jeremy and Christine are lined up, and they all sort of jeer at him and shove at him as he passes like one of those really uncomfortable ending scenes in teen movies where the bully walks down the hallway having everyone in the entire school shove at them and having milk or something poured on them and such in a reflection of one of the main character’s opening scenes.
There was not much dancing in this production at all, which makes sense considering this was only for 1 weekend.
I went to the talk-back too so I will write some about that after getting some sleep
I will try to add to this list if I remember anything else.
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The Post-Mall Goth Generation
Originally Posted  Thursday, December 22, 2016
Author’s note: I originally wrote this back in 2016 for a blog I had at the time. This was before the emo revival had really taken root. Searching the emo or scene tags on tumblr at that point would yield all the old-internet pictures of emo kids that we’ve all seen, plus a handful of unrelated, vaguely alternative photos. New scene and emo content just wasn’t a thing, and as it turns out, new mall goth content was even farther behind (when I started this blog I was the only person I was aware of on tumblr actually using mall goth as a positive descriptor). Given the vast growth in the emocore and scenecore communities (as well as other related communities) here on tumblr, I thought it was time to dig up this essay and share it with you all.
          As Goth is nearing its 40th birthday, many members of the community are taking a chance to look back and reflect. This is happening in a general overarching sense, with posts such as Lady Von Ruin's popular Goth vs Mainstream Over 40 Years post, but there is also a lot of attention being paid to the goth scene of the early 2000s as well. Lady Von Ruin's post stirred up several replies in defense of the era. In addition to that, 2000s fashion was featured as a possible upcoming trend in The Mutant Stomp Friend's 2017 Trend Predictions post. Clearly there's something in the water foretelling the return of this (Cringy? Nostalgia-filled?) era.
      For anyone who was in the scene during the early 2000s, this is bound to bring up strong feelings. Whether you love it for the nostalgia and fond memories, or hate it for the embarrassment, this was an important part of many goths' lives. It was truly an era in the history of the scene, bringing in many new people and shaping their early interactions with the community. DJ Gomez discusses this quite extensively in his Ode to Mall Goths.
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          But what about the goths that hadn't gotten into the scene yet in the early 2000s? As DJ Gomez also mentions, there are many people who were introduced to the goth scene in more recent years, after the mall goth phenomenon had all but died out. I won't rehash all of the reasons for this cultural shift (an increase in internet presence, decrease in malls, etc) but let's say that things have definitely changed. Where does this leave the post-mall goth generation? What is our nostalgia? Where do we fit into this conversation?           "We?" Yes, we. I myself am a member of the post-mall goth generation. I was not introduced to the scene until 2009, after the mall goth phenomenon had faded into virtual nothingness. My town didn't even have a proper mall, much less a Hottopic. Our equivalent was snatching up Halloween gear from Party City or Spirit Halloween Super Store. Not only had mall goth disappeared, emo had essentially come and gone by that time as well. Many of the mall goth generation comment that emo didn't exist yet when they were getting into the scene. Well, I am from a different world my friends. Emo had been around long enough to have its influence on the public perception of the darkly clad, and was on its way out by the time I was around, having hit its peak around 2007 from what I can tell. Its last vestiges still clung to life, embodied in the pair of “scene queens” my middle school boasted, but for all intents and purposes I had missed it, just as I had missed mall goth.      That has always caused me some pain. I don't miss mall goth, because I never saw mall goth. It was too far gone by the time I was around. But I miss emo and scene culture. I know that right there loses me goth points, but screw it, it's true. I am not nostalgic for them exactly, for I was never a part of either of those communities. I just feel that I lost something as I watched them die out. There are times where I wish I had been around just a few years earlier so that I could have witnessed them in their fullness.      That wondering of "what could have been" has played into my personal history with goth, and perhaps the general history of the post-mall goth generation, but it is still not the bulk of our history. It is the history we witnessed, not the history we lived. So what did we live through? What is our nostalgia?      This is going to vary from person to person, of course, but I believe the internet was the early home of the post-mall goth generation. As DJ Gomez discusses in his article, the internet in many ways killed the mall goth and many communal goth activities. However, the internet also built communal spaces and became a place for the young to gain information and find others like themselves.      My babybat days were shaped by websites like Antimony & Lace, Gothic Charm School, and Mookychick (which had an emo fashion section back then!). I read the Gothic Charm School book, which was published in June of that year, cover to cover multiple times. I used YouTube to listen to all of the suggested goth music, and to do even more research. I spent hours watching vloggers like Kill Natalie and KINGgutterface (and of course the Gothic Charm School videos).      What was even more important to me, and what I am nostalgic for now, was the tight knit goth blogging community that existed back then. When I started blogging back on Goth-to-Goth, I was amazed by how much bloggers supported each other. I regularly communicated with and was encouraged by my idols at the time including Jillian Venters, Amy Townsend, and Sophistique Noir (whose name I apparently don't know). Not only that but there were so many other goths around my own age who were just starting out in the community. I actually had peers in the subculture because of it. Looking back on it I am so grateful to have had this nurturing community at that point in my development.      So that is my nostalgia, those are my fond babybat days. I think tight knit internet communities are a pretty common story for people who got into goth around the same time I did, late 2000s-early 2010s. People who got into it even more recently are going to have an even different story of course. Things are still shifting. Things are always shifting.  Even from what I can see, the tight knit internet communities have faded out, giving way to less community driven forms of communication such as Tumblr. Tumblr already existed when I was getting into the scene, but the role of it and other social media has definitely increased. If nothing else, you can see it in the number of people who have left long-form blogs like blogger and wordpress for short-form blogs like Tumblr. It's not bad, it just forms a less interpersonal community.      Given all this do I think early 2000s era goth is going to make a revamped comeback? Truthfully yes, but not from the people who lived from it the first time. From what I have seen, a lot of the post-mall goth generation had information and knowledge at there fingertips when they were just starting out. This led to us making less embarrassing mistakes but it also increased the pressure to be perfect from the start. I think a lot of us now have reached a point where we've been in the scene long enough that we feel comfortable exploring a style that is less serious and music that isn't necessarily goth.      Really, I think we are going to primarily see a resurgence in emo styles with 2000s goth being more of a secondary thing. Or perhaps they shall combine somewhat. That must sound horrible to some people, but I think it could work if done well.* All I know is that I have seen such an upsurge in the popularity of emo recently that it must be making a comeback, at least among my own age group.      Come to think of it, even before I saw this topic coming up in conversation so often, my style was starting to head in that direction, as is evidenced by my last post... *Maybe it doesn't even have to be done well. Maybe that's not the point. Maybe this is just the time for people who are finally comfortable with their place in the subculture to irreverently explore trends and music they like without ridicule. Perhaps we should all banish the word "cringe" from our vocabulary and just let people do what they want as long as they aren't hurting anybody. Maybe a lot of things. Okay. Tiny rant over.
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