#also zuko isn't the true hero of the show...

[turboacek-blog]

Zutara and Kataang: my thoughts

Basically Zutara is the enemy to lovers ship

Kataang is the friendship to lover ship

Combine with other things like opposites attract, and love at first site and so on

With the Netflix adaptation stirring things up for this old ship rivalry just wanted to share some general thoughts

General thoughts as you can go anywhere for Zutara hints or why KatAang was actually good and don't need to analyze every moment

Enemies to Lovers

Disclaimer: I dislike the enemies to lover trope. It’s one of those things I genuinely don’t understand why they would like each other in most cases, as the cases I do like it it’s more like they’re the two friends that don’t gel as well like Sam and Freddie in iCarly not actual enemies on opposing sides of war, but I don’t feel this about Zutara due to Zuko

I brought up the ship tropes before as I think this shows more of the discourse amongst the fans

There’s a ton of people that love the enemies to lovers trope whether it be actual enemies or just the two friends that don’t get along that well and can argue/fight often

As people think things like opposite attracts or that when characters fight and argue and etc it shows their chemistry and potentially (sexual) tension of the two

And this isn’t every enemies to lovers ship but some people are genuinely more into the bad boy or bad girl or bad person, more than then opposite of good boy/girl/person

From appearance wise, some see dark and edgy > simple and clean, personality wise with crazy > generic heroic, to the story aspect as the dark story of the enemy can be more interesting then the normal story of the hero a lot of the time due to complexity and writing quality

Friends to lovers

On the flip side

Friendship to lovers is the ship that covers the exact opposite of enemies to lovers

As some believe you’re supposed to be with someone similar to you in morals, ethics, spiritually, emotionally, etc

And a way some people find that is through their friends / people in mutual interest group (sports, church, clubs, and so on)

It’s why there are tropes of the person finally realizing their best friend was the one or childhood friend were their perfect match

Let alone some people just like it more when people seem to enjoy being around each other in peace vs the opposite of fighting and arguing a lot

Aang-Katara-Zuko shipping stuff

So even after all that I do think some understand that and that isn't the cause of the divide for some

and their disagreements become more of a personal thing or how times have changed since the showed aired back in the early 2000s whether socially or just the fan themselves growing up

Like for example as I've seen this a lot, if you’re a girl it can be hard to put yourself in the place of Katara a 14 year old girl (which would be that 9th grader in high school range) being attracted to a 12 years old (essentially a 7th grader middle schooler (Aang) ) especially when that same girl was attracted to seemingly 16 year olds (11th graders before (Haru and Jet))

But I do think it’s not as cut and dry as a teen being attracted to a person two years younger as unbelievable as some also say that's a pretty shallow reason and people write those people off

Some think Aang is cringe for all his especially early attempts at flirting with Katara. Which not nonly ties into the age thing but the whole sometimes being persistent is bad and harassment which is more and more true as the years goes on as a lot of shows back then had that element of boy tries repeatedly and gets rejected repeatedly then eventually “wore her down”

And on the flipside Zuko harmed that group for a long time and even if unjustified Katara saw him as the representation of her hatred for a period which can have its own downsides when compared to things like abuse and not racism exactly but hating that whole nation almost (there’s a word but I can’t think of it)

They both have things against them

Some aspects just don't appear the same to different people

Like a popular example is the fortune teller episode

Where Katara only thinks of Aang as potential person for her when a fortune teller foresees it

The intention is this cosmic supernatural aspect saying these two are meant for each other

Destiny

Like on one hand Destiny can be super romantic like this person was destined for me, like this is my perfect match, they were made for me

On the other it can feel like you have no agency, like this is the only person for me? Am I just destined to be with this one person I might have never looked at in that way, am I allowed not to choose them?

Some people like that Katara realized Aang was a potential match via this supernatural aspect

Some hate it as it feels like Katara didn't come to become attracted to Aang naturally

On screen vs potential possibilities

Like it was kinda obvious Aang and Katara would end up together despite the distractions from guys like Jet. So the series being written that they naturally have more moments which leads to them being the ship makes sense

So whenever Katara kisses Aang cheek is just evidence that this clearly the ship

Vs

Even more than Aang and Zuko at times, Katara and Zuko are parallels so they're interactions even if on opposite sides can also be seen as evidence

But I think this on-screen and potential aspect is mostly on the Zutara side because of how the show went, which gives them more what-ifs

Like Zutara has a lot of what ifs like what if Zuko joined them in Ba sing se? Some genuinely think that would of kicked of Zutara for real

Let alone other aspects that I think people mostly like for story potential like if Katara marries Zuko she becomes the Queen of the fire nation which has a lot of story potential

It doesn't even have to be Zutara alone, can say if they did go Zutara for the writing back in Book 2 they could of easily wrote Taang (Toph and Aang) to be Aangs ship

As just minor example but Toph just being attracted to Aang and not Sokka from a writing viewpoint would make people like them as people like Tokka (Toph x Sokka) for similar reasons

Basically the show was building up to Aang x Katara and if they diverted from that there would be a decent amount of disappointed if literally all that changed was that at the end Katara kissed Zuko

But I think when people see the potential chemistry and interactions of different pairs not just Zutara but people like Sokka with Toph or maybe Katara should of just got with Haru they would have liked it if they wrote around those ships vs the KatAang one

Zutara thoughts

My quick thoughts on zutara is that for me…

I think this is more of a I like Zuko and Katara as characters but not necessarily together

Like I think if the show would of had Zuko with Ty Lee and not Mai people would feel different since Ty Lee is so loved while Mai seems more of an acquired taste and people might not like Zuko with Mai

Like I like Mai but her and Zuko together weren’t handled the best to me, even in the comics they broke up for a period where with Ty Lee at least she would be generally more well liked due to personality differences

Plus people really don’t like how they handled some of the more cringey moments of KatAang which is basically all on Aang which I’ll save for later

So when their main ships are not perfect I see the logic of putting them together along with all the other stuff I mentioned before

I however think what Zuko did while eventually forgiven by Katara doesn’t make him the best option for her but for Zuko Katara is lowkey the best option if we can’t put him with a Ty Lee or somebody like that

As Katara even if not with Aang I could put with someone like Haru or a hypothetically alive Jet whereas if Zuko isn’t with Mai he has the one off characters like the ba sing se girl (I forget her name, the one he went on an actual date with) but no one that comes back making Katara his next option it seems

KatAang thoughts

I don’t mind all the cringey stuff Aang has done lol

I think people really don’t like the kiss during the play as it’s one of those he kissed her without permission moments that gets people riled up as there are definitely examples and instances where it’s not ok irl and in media

But not even including the time the show came out in which definitely is a different time culturally than now

He kissed her before and didn’t have the same reaction and he’s 12/13 they’re allowed to make these mistakes

Plus even though she was confused and doesn’t outwardly say it all the time like Aang does, Katara did like Aang at this point at least that’s how I read it.

So it’s not like he kissed a girl that didn’t like him. Aang to me was basically asking her to be his girlfriend and she’s like maybe after the WAR, whereas he took it as doubt and tried to reassure her. To me it’s two people that like each other but are prioritizing different things as Aang just wants Katara and Katara wants this war over with

And could go on but all their cringey moments aren’t bad worse thing is how realistic some of it can be lol

I think the whole love at first sight and destiny and all that is take it or leave it though

As I know some people don’t believe in love at first sight or just don’t like that trope and that’s admittedly the basis of this ship

I think while they eventually worked up to it well I can see to some their beginning are just as shaky narratively as Zutara

Also Aang doesn’t really have another ship tbh, like someone pointed out that the only person Aang called pretty was Katara and the Painted Lady who was Katara lol

Like if they would have actually played into Ming from that fortune teller village, Toph the only other character his age or even someone like Ty Lee I can see an argument to not make Katara his main ship

Conclusion

I think the KatAang ship is harmless especially given their ages, the show release time period and just general point of the ship narratively therefore I think it’s a good ship

But I won’t lie and say especially earlier on that Zutara, Taang, and other possibilities wouldn’t have made some good if not even better stories depending how it was written just off potential

#avatar aang #avatar netflix #avatar the last airbender #kataang #zutara #aang #katara #zuko #aang x katara #zuko x katara #enemies to lovers #friends to lovers #avatar the last air bender thoughts

[woodlaflababab]

Zukaang Moments In Episode One: The Boy In The Iceberg

(There's A Lot)

-<>-

"Head a course for the light." The first episode and it is already foreshadowed that Zuko needs Aang and that Aang is his pathway to true happiness and peace. It's a literal angelic light that calls to Zuko that can be seen for miles around.

What does that sound like? A lighthouse and Zuko is literally in a boat trying to find a way home. Aang casts a light that calls Zuko home and represents finally finding the shore, an end to the perilous journey at sea for the sailor lost in the night.

Like, symbolic much? Zuko could've been clued into the idea that that was the avatar by a whole slew of ways, but it is a literal becon of light, almost like Aang is less an enemy/something to catch and more a savior/home.

Also, Yin and Yang #1: Zuko knows exactly where he's going and what he's doing, Aang has no idea where he's going or what he's doing.

Zuko angstily staring in the direction of Aang, being unable to sleep.

Iroh going on abt how there's no way Zuko could find Aang bc his ancestors weren't able to. Well. You see Uncle Iroh. Zuko's ancestors weren't soulmates with the avatar.

Yin and Yang #2: Zuko is talking about how he needs his honor, you know, in order to go home and be the prince he's supposed to be. Immediately after we see Aang lying and dying he's the avatar. Zuko is chasing his destiny. Aang is running away from his destiny. (And continues to do so even after accepting his role as avatar bc his destiny is Zuko ;) )

One of their obvious Yin and Yangs but since the scene focuses on Aang's tattoos I'll say it here. Aang has blue markings he accepted willingly as a sign of mastery and honor, granted to him by people who raised him and love him. Zuko has a red marking he had no say in as a sign of 'weakness and dishonor', granted to him by someone who raised him and hates him. Yin and Yang #3

Yin and Yang #4: Zuko is stressed and training, Aang is carefree and having fun. Zuko is stressing out the people around him, Aang is bringing fun to the people around him.

Yin and Yang #5: Zuko is seen practicing firebending and still working on the basics and the only purpose to his learning is to fight. Meanwhile we see Aang, a literal master, use his bending as second nature and for anything BUT fighting.

Aang finds a scary fire nation ship and shows no fear, despite it's obvious danger, only a desire to reach in and find what's inside it. A unique approach to it. Which already foreshadows his relationship with Zuko (and technically the fire nation but shut up this is abt Zukaang), specifically the Blue Spirit, where he shows no fear of Zuko, who's proven dangerous, and only wants to understand him and be friends. Reach in and find what's inside him. A unique approach to Zuko.

Zuko is once again called to Aang by a light, and this time it's a flare, something sent up when someone needs rescue. And like the last light he followed, this one is also foreshadowing the future.

Where the first light shows how Aang is important/needed by Zuko, this one shows how Zuko is important/needed by Aang. It foreshadows how Aang needs help and Zuko is often called to his rescue. (both with the blue spirit and him joining them in book three, and also that fight with azula, as examples off the top of my head, oh also the freeing appa thing, there's a lot.) Zuko is Aang's hero. @the ember island players were right

"Quite agile for his old age." Not Zuko already praising Aang and being Extra Aware of everything Aang does and everything Aang can do.

Also, 'his'. The avatar could be male or female, the world doesn't actually know. And yes, we could attribute Zuko automatically saying 'his' as him assuming based on internal sexism OR we could say Zuko inherently knows due to his cosmic connection with Aang. >:) There is more on this later, I swear this isn't as much of a reach as it seems.

-<>-

Okay so, Basically, the reason I did this was bc I saw someone list out the moments in the series for their ship and I started thinking about the zukaang moments from the series but like. They're all over the place. The series is about Zukaang, so I thought it'd be fun to list out all the Zukaang moments from just the first episode. (Thematic ones and relationship ones.)

I'm about to do The Avatar Returns, but honestly, I could keep going. I'm heavily thinking about it. The first (two parter) episode is heavily Zukaang, but even the second one, though they don't interact at all, has Zukaang moments. I might go through each episode and point out over-analyzed zukaang. Idk.

If you don't want the zukaang tag flooded by this over the next however long it takes me, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Second Part

#zukaang #atla #meta #woodlaflababab #everything is zukaang #I think thats going to be the tag I use for this #zukaang talks

[arabella-s-arts]

Watched the new atla show. And now I will share my thoughts because I need to put them somewhere.

I agree with people that it kind of fell flat. More like an impersonation than the actual show. Also, people are right, where is Katara's rage? I'm not going to dive into it, because people already have, but Katara is stubborn and righteous, so where'd they put those qualities?

I wish the show would stop telling us everything. Like, stop telling me that Ozai thought finding the Avatar would be impossible, and sent Zuko on this quest anyway. I know, it's obvious. I don't need to be told the subtext, that's why it's subtext. Subtality could do this show a world of good.

Zhao's death sucked. It was perfect how it was in the original, it showed Zuko's kindness, and Zhao's hubris being his downfall was perfect. Also, this isn't necessarily a complaint, just something I noticed, Zhao feels different in the show. A guy with similar aspirations and ideas, yes, but not the same guy we all hate.

The acting wasn't always the greatest, but I can't tell if it's actually the actor's fault or script (probably script).

I wish Sokka was involved in the Jet plotline, he played a big part in it originally, and it really showed his true character.

Why did Katara and Aang never get any actual training in Northern Water Tribe? That's what they were there to do. Somehow, magically Katara became a master waterbender, because she what? Believed in herself? That's not how learning a skill works. Imagine trying to learn the flute, you're confident, and you figured out on your own how to play a few notes. But you still need someone to teach you the rest of the notes, how to trill, how to read the sheet music, etc. You can't learn everything just from confidence.

The costumes bothered me so much. Sokka and Katara's coats looked so light weight, which is probably more comfortable for the actors, but those coats could not shield you from a light breeze, much less a frozen tundra. Also someone pointed out that their clothes don't actually look worn, and they're right.

What on earth was the scarf scene? Why was it there? What was the point? I am not a Zutara shipper (though I have no hate for the shippers, just dislike for the ship), and now online is just going to be posts about that.

Was Suki just not wearing her warrior make-up because she had to kiss Sokka? Either way, it's still upsetting. The one time she doesn't wear her warrior make-up (which is an honor to wear) is when she's finally in a real fight, and on the day Kyoshi shows up too. Also, no Sokka wearing warrior make-up? I get if they couldn't fit it in, but it's still a bit sad.

I don't understand them getting rid of the fact that Aang ran away, I think it really makes his character more complex as he struggles to take on the responsibilities of the Avatar.

They sorta switched Sokka and Katara's roles in the Omashu tunnels, which I don't get.

Having Zuko fight Ozai in the Agni Kai was a terrible idea.

I'm sorry to say this, because I don't like Zuko being in pain. But Zuko's scar is smaller and a lot more understated than in the animation. I don't know much about burnt tissue, or how it will scar, especially with their technology. But we rarely see heroes with facial scars beyond a line through the eye or something, I don't want it taken away. The scar doesn't even seem to reach his ear. And I'm sad about them confirming his sight was fine. Zuko with some hearing and vision loss is technically just a headcanon. But then why did Zuko only leave his unscarred side up when sleeping around people he didn't trust in the animated version?

I could tell that Aang was airbending during it, so it wasn't really flying. But it's a little too similar, especially considering how significant flying is in Korra.

The thing that bothered me the most was Yue's death. Why was it barely acknowledged?! Yue made a huge sacrifice, but instead we're making up a plotline that causes Aang to have the spotlight instead. And when Sokka was talking to Arnook about Yue, somehow the conversation became focused on Sokka, and his insecurity, instead of someone they both deeply miss (though Sokka and Yue's relationship development could've been better). Sokka is joking around again by the end of the episode, it feels like her death never happened! And why make her a fish! No offense to fishes, but it feels less impactful, and in the original, we could see how Yue was able to keep some of herself alive in the way she presents herself as a spirit, she doesn't do that here.

Some things I liked:

Zuko being upset about Aang stealing his journal.

Sokka and Suki had really good chemistry (though, the show doesn't really give us a reason why Suki likes him, she seems annoyed with him when they first meet).

The effects were good, and I liked a lot of the fight scenes.

Kyoshi.

Oma and Shu being lesbians.

That one lady hitting Zuko for trying to hurt Aang.

Suki being awkward and beating up the guy she likes.

I am impressed with how they were able to overlap some story lines. That must have been difficult to figure out.

The sets.

Azula.

#did hei bai ever get better in the live action #I don't remember it happening #I'll probably add more stuff to the list if I think of things #atla #avatar: the last airbender #atla live action #atla netflix #the show feels like it's made out of cardboard #if that makes sense

[kitkatopinions]

Sorry to come into your ask box to vent after your post...

But I gotta say, you certainly managed to really sum up everything I dislike about the mentality of "subverting expectations = good storytelling" folks.

Like, it had been such a thing for people to say "X is so good because it subverts audience expectations!" And it's been driving me up a wall because that's just such a backward mentality about it: subverting audience expectations is a completely neutral thing, and one can just as easily ruin a story by going against audience expectations as tell a good story by playing out what the audience might be expecting.

Which, not to necessarily be mean about RW//BY, but yeah... that so many passionate defenders of it are also of the "a story is good cuz it subverts expectations" crowd is... not unexpected.

No, but for real! The way that people and seemingly a lot of writers think that surprise = good is frustrating!:This is one reason why spoilers are such a big deal to people, is that their viewing experience seems to bank on surprise and shock about who might die, who ends up together, who wins what victory in the end. I should be able to know all the plot points and plot twists going in and still enjoy the finished product just as much. If something isn't well set up (Adam's switcheroo in motives, the existence of the gods, Penny being a flesh person, the Ever After, Blake's personality change, arguably Ruby's depression in V9,) or not well done (Ironwood's fall to villainy, Ozpin's gray morality, the bees, Neo's eventual suicide, Ruby's journey as a SEW, the whole morals of the whole show) then whether or not it 'subverts expectations' is entirely irrelevant.

People are fully allowed to complain that they thought a piece of media would do something they wanted and instead did something they personally don't like that much, also, because that IS a bummer. But when I complain about RWBY, most of the time it's not just because I'm salty that it isn't doing what I think I'd personally like more. Like, I like the game Octopath Traveler, but I wish it wasn't that 8-bit looking early video game design, but at the end of the day I don't care because just because it doesn't fit my personal preference doesn't mean it isn't good. I wish Zuko had joined the Gaang earlier in ATLA or had more time with the Gaang than he did, but I still think Zuko's story is as close to perfect as it probably could've been. I just write or read fanfiction for the personal preference stuff. But the complaints I typically have for RWBY aren't like that. Like YEAH I actually DO prefer stories without heroes falling to villainy and with lots of redemption arcs, but I'm not about to hate RWBY just for not following my own personal preferences. No, I criticize RWBY for the bad execution, the lack of emotional pay-off in their story beats, the inconsistent morality they splash here and there whenever it sounds good and then forget about. RWBY is a confused show packed with ideas that never seem to be able to come together and writers that seem more interested in making giffable moments than a well done story. It's just generally not a well written well executed show.

I think that 'it subverts your expectations' is just one of many excuses that people use to wave away criticism with as little thought or effort or need to actually engage in discourse as possible. Just like complaints that the writers weren't interested in good world building and lore and therefore the transition from the moster school drama Beacon Era into magical world traversing quest wasn't well done are waved away with 'you're just mad the writers aren't following your headcanons' or 'you just want cute girls to go brr and hate substance' without actually addressing the true meat of the complaint or offering any substantial counterargument.

BTW, complain any time! I don’t mind hearing it at all. XD

#rwde

[highfantasy-soul]

NATLA Episode 7 - The North (1/4)

[Masterlist of my NATLA thoughts]

An explanation of what I'm doing here and my history with ATLA.

Of course, full spoilers ahead.

<previous/next>

Opening with Lt. Jee, now loyal to Zuko, warning him about Zhao's fake plan was incredible. Before last episode, Jee would have let it happen and never warned Zuko about the (fake) soldiers coming to arrest him. But it's Zuko's own honor that leads his men to now be dedicated to him and allows Zhao's ploy to work. It's also interesting that at least Lt. Jee also knows that Zuko is the Blue Spirit - I don’t think this breaks the world at all because if Zuko isn't the one to turn in the Avatar, the crew doesn't get to go home either. They're both in the same boat (lolz) if Zhao gets the Avatar instead, so it's in Lee's best interest to aid Zuko even in his subterfuge. After all, it was Zuko doing things against Fire Nation protocol that saved their lives. 

Zhao's claim that Zuko was looking out for himself above all and was a traitor is technically true. To the Fire Nation, it doesn’t matter WHO gets the Avatar, it only matters that he's captured. But the Fire Nation's own beliefs are what leads to the Avatar getting away yet again: just like with the orcs in the Lord of the Rings, what evil people prize is usually what brings them down independent of the actions of the 'heroes'. Evil will always destroy itself. The Fire Nation prizes individual strength and being of a higher ranking above everything else, so of course Zhao and Zuko are going to vie for that, BOTH of them ending up working against the Fire Nation's best interest because they're chasing that status: cooperation isn't rewarded, individual acts of valor are. Individual acts that encourage them to work against each other and ends up hurting them both while letting the Avatar go free.

I can see the argument that Aang's arc has gone back and forth a lot - him wanting to save the world with his friends, everyone else telling him he has to do it alone, then him going back to wanting to save the world with his friends, then others telling him to do it alone. I think though, that every episode has built upon each other to show that connection isn't weakness, but each subsequent challenge has become more and more dangerous. Sokka and Katara were almost lost in the previous two episode arc - they got sucked into the Avatar's world (due to a spirit angry over something it seems the Avatar should have prevented) and if Aang hadn't saved them, they'd be lost forever.

The stakes keep going up and Aang keeps seeing the cost of an Avatar's failure, leading him to have a totally normal reaction of going from welcoming his friends into the fight to being afraid to lose them and wanting them to sit it out. After all, when he channeled Kysohi, his friends were safe - she took care of it all. When he thinks Kuruk can do the same thing, that he has the 'trump' card of the Avatar state being controlled by someone who knows what they're doing, he's ok with his friends fighting - but when it's solely up to him to protect them and he doesn’t think he can, he balks. Until, of course, his friends set him straight.

In love with Agna Qel'a's design and the fact that they actually gave it a name!! Apparently that happened in one of the books, but for the animated series, it was always just 'The North Pole' or 'The Northern Water Tribe'. I like that it gets a name now - and it's beautiful! It's so good to see Katara and Sokka get to connect with their sister culture in the north and how it must feel to them to see a community of the Water Tribe thriving so much compared to their own coves that are barely hanging on.

And again, something that comes up with Aang a lot - people wanting him to immediately jump in and be the perfect weapon for them to use against their enemies. The show does a great job of always reminding us the massive responsibilities everyone places on Aang, seeing him first as a weapon, and only second as a person. Katara and Sokka's dynamic has gotten so good by this point in the season. Their little back and forth with Katara telling him ppl will think something is wrong with him if he keeps staring at Yue is too cute!

What they've done with the Royal Family of the Fire Nation is really great. It is sooooo interesting that Ozai doesn't even speak to his daughter directly about her training, he has someone else do it - very much like the Blood of the Seanchan from the Wheel of Time who always use a Voice to speak for them because those not of 'The Blood' do not deserve to be spoken to by someone so high. But to have Ozai be staring right at Azula as his 'voice' critiques her 'trial', it speaks volumes. I love, too, that Mai calls it out for what it is - that Ozai is playing games with her because he knows she's the best, he just wants something more from her that he refuses to say.

I've seen people say that the last shot of Azula lasts a few seconds too long, but I think they're missing what's being shown - not just what's being told through her last line of 'that I'm the one'. Azula is desperate to be her father's favorite, she's so certain she should be next in line for the throne, and in the animated show, she pretty much is from the jump. I'll need to rewatch season 2 and 3, but I can't remember Ozai every criticizing a thing Azula does - she's just the golden child who's perfect and his shoe-in for heir. Here, he's making her work for it - fight and prove that she's better than Zuko. He thinks that pitting his children against each other will make them both stronger, then the strongest will win out and they'll be that much better for it. We don’t see cracks in Azula's mask until the end of season 3 of the animated show, so I like that here, that lingering shot on her face shows that her expression goes from angry and determined, to almost a frightened desperation. She tries to put on a good face, but she is concerned that her father won't see the truth she does, that she'll be 'treated like Zuko' and punished for not being good enough.

#natla #avatar the last airbender #netflix avatar #atla #natla positivity

[frumfrumfroo]

I get tired of Zuko being brought up as the archetypal redemption arc (I get why people on the pro-redemption side do it, because he's a cultural touchstone for many people when we're kind of in dearth of villain redemptions, contrary to popular belief). But it's interesting how he lacks many of the elements I find engaging about redemption arcs, partly as a consequence of it being a children's show - Zuko can safely be redeemed because his daddy is the true baddie, so we still have the archetypal 'hero defeats villain' story; Zuko doesn't have a romance, and you can argue he's a villain protagonist in many ways, so the absolute product of his arc is kind of discrete; Azula (though apparently she was intended to be redeemed) still functions as a baddie for him to take down, so it's not like nonviolence is embedded in the narrative (which is what I personally find powerful) - and so on.

If I may add to your post, I definitely agree with you that it's a product of the current cultural/media climate, and comparisons to Zuko tend to not be productive. The anatomy of the fallout is little to do with the emotional arc or verisimilitude of the character's development, and so changing that isn't going to change anything. There are also elements like, Zuko gets to be the 'one' contrastive character who did it correctly - emotionally unbound in the story (his major redeeming relationship is with his uncle, even) - and for many people in the current discourse, from a time of childhood idealism. If I were to psychoanalyse these people, Kylo Ren, for instance, is so uncomfortable as a product of teenage narrative cynicism, maybe even worse because the Sequel Trilogy unearthed the OT. Zuko functions sort of like 'the one female character written correctly' which people bandy about to silence discussions of female character criticism or the presence of female characters, despite the fact this is an extremely limiting and antihumanistic approach (for black characters, for black female characters, for disabled characters, and so on - we want a variety). It's like how the 1:4 ratio of women to men is considered 'even'.

But I would go so far to say that why Zuko fails as a point of comparison is that many elements I view as powerful, moving, and challenging in redemption arcs are simply not there. This makes him feel safer. If Zuko is the 'limit', then you can suppress the discussion surrounding villain redemption arcs this way. Because romance isn't a feature, nonviolence isn't a conclusive feature, Azula can't be redeemed (she's truly crazy and evil), so redemption is a 'yea high' bar of disappointment. This is why I am tired of Zuko as a point of comparison bandied by the anti-redemption crowd, both because it stymies storytelling (there is no limit on what sorts of stories deserve to be told) but because it's actually kind of... not the same thing as what we're talking about. It doesn't go far enough. It barely does at all (and in anime, the villain redemptions tend to go pretty far, so what Avatar was playing off of was, well, playing it safe).

I also think it would be a different story if they had gone for Zuko/Katara with a female POV, but I don't really believe that both of those things were ever the intention. There's not really room for it in the Aang Show where the girl is a prize. But I'm not sure that many would meditate on it with such content if romance were involved at all. Hell, even now there are people who insist that Vader's redemption wasn't one at all because it commits too much - and that's why I think Zuko as an example persists.

I can't speak on the actual content because I was never in the fandom and haven't seen the show, but I'm sure you're right. I also think it's largely to do with these people having seen Zuko's arc when they were younger and it being 'grandfathered in'. As we see with some of the antis in sw fandom being totally fine with anidala or thinking Anakin is a sympathetic and tragic character, but lose their shit at the suggestion Ben is intended the same way despite being a far, far less demanding example. Even though anidala actually was an abusive relationship and reylo is not. etc.

Because they grew up with it and have already accepted the story's conclusion, they retrofit the 'good' and 'hero' labels and are thus fine with Anakin's redemption. The label is more important than any action he could take, because these people are working from an indelible label-based 'morality'. It's a form of Protagonist Centred Morality.

And I'm confident the same is true of A:TLAB.

And yes, there's also the fact that it's apparently an extremely tame and not very challenging redemption, because it's a show for little kids and thus Zuko doesn't kill anyone or do anything that violent. And again, I haven't seen it, but I get the impression he was always at least a bit sympathetic? So you never saw him as a simple and unrepentant villain. I could be wrong about that idk.

It is an extremely annoying thing that people still trot this out as the 'one acceptable redemption arc for all fiction ever', but that attitude has nothing to do with the writing of his arc or his character and everything to do with the people saying this and the circumstances under which they were exposed to him. And it's a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point because he's been given the pass, so even people coming to the show later already have permission to like him and won't respond to him the way they would otherwise.

The anti echo chamber will keep perpetuating this.

#fandom #tropes #writing

[merrilark]

I don't want to sound like I'm hating on something before it's even had a chance to be released, but if the news is true, there's something a little amusing about the LA!A:TLA show supposedly watering down Sokka's arc because his sexism in the OG show "was iffy". A:TLA, the show with one of the most widely loved redemption arcs... The show most people think of when they think "well-written redemption arc"...

Like... are we going to water down Zuko, then, too? Or does he get a pass at being crappy because he's a "villain", while Sokka, a "hero", isn't allowed to be a little dislikable?

I'm too zonked today to put my thoughts together eloquently, sorry, but something about only allowing "bad" characters the room to do bad things and expecting them to grow, while assuming "good" characters must always be good and never make mistakes because duh, they're the GOOD guys seems... really ironic for a show that constantly pushed the thought that there is good and evil in everything, and what might look like acts of heroism to one person may look like acts of villainy to another. Villains will often see themselves as the heroes of their own story because they're doing what they believe is right according to their environment or circumstance. No one is perfect and everyone has the capability to evolve and change for the better (or the worst). Etc. etc.

Obviously Sokka's sexism is nothing compared to the harm Zuko does, but that makes the possible watering down of Sokka's arc worse, in my opinion. It creates this idea that badness is exclusive to identifiably "bad" people and that "good" people will always be right and just, and are above being influenced into bad ideas or beliefs. But that's just not true! Zuko and Sokka are both products of the places they came from, the culture they grew up in, and the trauma they endured. Sokka grew up in a tribe that had at least some heavy focus on traditional gender roles, enough that all the men were expected to go to war and the boys, like Sokka, left to defend the tribe. Being the oldest boy and carrying around the horror of losing his mother and potentially his father to the threat of the conquesting Fire Nation, it's no wonder Sokka carries some sexist notions. He's a young teen who feels he has to shoulder the weight of protecting the entire Southern Water Tribe alone. I'm shocked he's not more sexist, actually, because it's also a matter of pride, duty, and promise for him to protect the women and children around him. It makes just as much sense that he would believe in the rigidity of gender roles as much as Zuko, also a teen, also burdened by the weight his father placed on him, believes that his quest for finding the Avatar is important. Honor is important to both of them, because it's really all either of them has or have known.

But even if Sokka's sexism wasn't rooted in something as dramatic as his mother dying in a Fire Nation attack or all the other men going off to war, getting to see him grow through his experiences with Suki and the Kyoshi Warriors is so satisfying despite how quick it is. It's fun to see characters like Sokka get a little humbled, it's fun to see them change and grow and become more likable, because that's real.

Anyway. That's a lot of words for really just trying to say that I think "good" characters should be allowed flaws just like "bad" characters, because in the end, everyone is a person and what is A:TLA about if not the power of nuture vs. nature, and the ability to choose your own path?

#again too early to say. might be judging too quickly but that made me grimace. #sokka isn't even that bad in the og! i feel like if you watered him down more he'd just not be sexist at all lol #why must heroes be perfect? let them be jerks. let me dislike them. #media criticism #media criticism for ts #media crit for ts #merri grumbles

[narashikari]

A random Kari ramble

I've seen some clips from the Netflix AtLA, but none of them really resonated with me the way the original series did... until the scene of Lu Ten's funeral

I've seen a lot of comments about how the scene demonstrates even this early on the kind of person Zuko is inside, and that's a good thing I think. But I've also seen the complaints that it seems to humanize Ozai by his mere presence there, and I honestly don't think that's the case at all.

In fact, I think it just makes him look worse in comparison.

First off, in the original series, Ozai tried using Iroh's lack of an heir as a pretense to have Azulon disinherit Iroh in favor of himself. If this still holds true in the Netflix series, his presence at the funeral makes this even more horrifying.

Way I see it, Ozai may have been genuinely bereaved by the death of Lu Ten, but later on he still used it to justify getting the throne. We know he isn't above manipulating and using his own children for his ambitions, why would Lu Ten be any different, especially in death?

Or, more likely, he didn't ever give a damn about Lu Ten and Iroh and just showed up for appearances' sake. There was nothing heartwarming about it, no genuine sympathy for his brother who just lost a son. He was there to be seen as an uncle mourning his honored nephew and as a younger brother supporting the older, but it was all just an empty gesture on his part.

Either way, it doesn't really humanize him. It makes him more of a monster.

So... yeah, I don't think Netflix AtLA really made Ozai look good in this regard.

For even more added horror... several keen-eyed observers noted that there were three chairs along with Iroh's at the funeral, and many assumed that these seats were for Ozai, Zuko and Azula. Zuko, however, was the only one who stayed with Iroh during the funeral.

Thing is, I don't think that was meant for Azula. Azula may have been too young to attend the funeral as a mourner, despite being Lu Ten's cousin. And for all we know women may have not been allowed to participate in such a manner- note how Ursa wasn't there either, and Lu Ten died prior to her banishment so her presence would've been expected as well.

I think it's more likely that the other mourner would've been Fire Lord Azulon, who was still reigning when Lu Ten died. Lu Ten was second in line to the throne behind Iroh. And Lu Ten died a war hero in the eyes of the Fire Nation, a soldier on the front lines despite being a royal prince. Meaning that the Fire Lord didn't even go to his own war hero grandson's funeral.

It's just weird he wasn't there as well, unless he was incapacitated in some way. Sure, he may have been too old and infirm (according to the Avatar Wiki he was 95 when he died, and Lu Ten died just some time before) but still... it's not really a good look for him.

It should also be remembered that Azulon did not take kindly to Ozai's proposal of passing over Iroh. And his reaction wasn't just to berate Ozai for it, but to order Ozai to kill Zuko- his other grandson- so he would know Iroh's pain.

(Of course, this famously lead to the conspiracy where Ursa murdered Azulon in order to secure Zuko's safety and allow Ozai to usurp the throne and her subsequent banishment from the royal family.)

It makes me wonder what Azulon actually felt about Lu Ten's death. Him ordering Ozai to murder his son doesn't give me the impression that he was a caring grandparent. Perhaps he didn't really care about Lu Ten either, except maybe that Lu Ten theoretically secured the succession as Iroh's heir. And I would chalk up him being mad about Ozai's suggestion to pass over Iroh as less being sympathetic for Iroh losing his son, and more pissed off that Ozai challenged his authority by questioning his judgement on who should be his heir.

tldr: the Fire Nation royal family is still fucked up as all get out

[sokkastyles]

Do you think that if Zutara was canon, the people who justify Kataang by saying that it's canon would've shipped Zutara instead?

Some of them would. Really, it depends on a lot of factors, like why people ship things in the first place. Some people are only interested in canon pairings, and some people who ship KA definitely are those kinds of people. But it also depends HOW it's presented if zutara were canon.

What I mean is, yes, it's true that some people ship things based on whether they are canon, but it's also true that some people who ship KA do so because the narrative leads us to hope Aang will get with Katara in the end, because we've been watching him crush on her from the first episode. The show wants us to identify with Aang's crush, which of course is one of the big criticisms of people who don't feel like KA prioritizes Katara's feelings enough. But if you're one of the viewers who watched the show and identified with Aang the way the show leads you to, then you ship KA.

Let's say zutara does become canon. What does that mean? Does it mean the romance is instead written from Zuko's perspective? If that were the case, the people who ship KA because they identify with Aang's crush would likely also ship zutara in this theoretical scenario. However, a lot would have to be different about the show for us to conceive of it this way. Zuko isn't positioned as the hero of the story, especially not at the beginning. He is A hero and a point of audience identification, but the show has to work to get him there because they position him as a villain at first. So if the narrative were to present zutara as the canon romance with the narrative being about Zuko's crush on Katara, a lot would have to change.

That's why a lot of people who identify with Katara ship zutara, because Zuko's relationship with the other characters isn't about Zuko's feelings, and when it is, it's about how Zuko has to change to meet the needs of the other characters, not the other way around.

The other theoretical canon zutara scenario is the one I see most zutara stans advocating for, the one where not much changes in the main narrative of the show, but have Aang's crush on Katara remain unreciprocated while growing Katara and Zuko's relationship into something romantic. This sort of narrative can be done, and is a more popular way of writing young adult media nowadays than it was twenty or so years ago, because conversations about what girls want and consent are more prevalent than they used to be.

Of course, even in narratives that do prioritize a female character's feelings, you still get people who will only identify with a male character or prioritize his feelings, because even though the Nice Guy narrative has gotten a lot of criticism in recent years, it still exists, and has existed for a long time.

I also tend to the think that no matter how well zutara was written and how it prioritized Katara's feelings, you'd still have people screaming about how Zuko is a bad boy who is corrupting Katara and leading her astray from wholesome good guy Aang, because people already say that and Katara and Zuko only hug platonically onscreen. As I said, the nice guy narrative is so prevalent in our society that people imagine that it's there even when it isn't. Which is actually really quite meta, because Aang did the same thing with Katara in "Ember Island Players" when he yelled at her for the imagined actions of her actress and how she didn't magically end up in a relationship with him despite him never once asking her out.

But, again, people ship things for all sorts of reasons and I'm certainly not saying all people who ship KA do so because it's canon or for bad reasons, just as not everyone who ships zutara would have wanted it to be canon or cares whether it is. Some people ship characters who never interact in canon and that's perfectly valid, too. That's the main problem with the "it's canon" justification, because at the end of the day, people ship things for all sorts of reasons, and a lot of people have really good and creative reasons for why they ship stuff. In my view, whether something is canon or not is one of the least interesting reasons to ship something, because most of my participation in fandom is about whether or not there's a story to explore, and noncanon ships usually have the most untapped potential. But that's just me.

#zutara #antikataang

[darkcrowprincess]

My thoughts: fair warning to people who are following me. I'm a lunter shipper, I don't like Amity's character at all. Lunter just makes more sense to me. I'm not a fan of miraculous lady bug anymore do to bad writing and because I just don't like Marinette's character anymore(she's so annoying). I love sailor moon, especially 90s English dub because thats what I grew up with, usagis new English voice actor's voice is annoying, so I don't listen to the new English dub. Don't like sailor moon crystal because the animation sucks and they took out everything I loved about the 90s one. Don't understand why my little pony is so popular or ever will. I love catradora, and don't understand the hate on catra' character. I think catra had a perfect story arc. I love Shera and the princess of power as is. It's a great show. Plus it has Entrapta and she is my spirit animal. So don't get the hate for shera. I don't get new cartoons or new kid shows/teen show of today. They're all so bad, so sanitized, or just plain bad writing. I'm a zutara shipper(or just zuko finding happiness with anyone's besides mai. Don't like her character very much). I don't like legend of Korra, the writing was just really bad. Especially after season one. So never watched it after season one. I hate the cartoon movie Disney beauty and the beast and love the live action one so much. It's my favorite of the live action disney movies. Emma Watson was the perfect Belle and made her more relatable. The little mermaid is my Disney movie and don't get all the hate on Ariel. She's the best. Love all versions of the little mermaid. Even the original fairy tale and any movies based on the original fairy tale. I hate the frozen movies with the burning intensity of a thousand suns. The movies are just not good. Titanic is a good movie. I love that movie. I also love James Cameron's avatar movie(can't wait for the sequel) and never understood why it isn't more popular. I love 80s movies and 80s fashion( would not want to live during that era) especially 80s romance movies, or any 80s movies were the main character is female and relatable. Though I don't get the breakfast club or why it's so popular. I love criminal minds and true crime documentaries(especially ones with female criminals). I don't like the Percy Jackson/Heroes of Olympus book series. Mostly cause theres not enough Artemis in it, Hades would never cheat on his wife Persephone ever! I loved Rachels character and never really liked Annabeth. I thought she was a know it all. I honestly would have picked lukes side. Because the gods as parents suck! The whole concept of demi god children sucks and its abusive. That's mainly why I stopped reading. I love movies on classic novels, but will never read them. Mostly because they just seem so boring. I will never read jane austen because her books are just so boring to read. The language is so difficult to understand. Sam Manson is a horrible character and I don't like her with Danny. Danny's parents are abusive, and he deserves a better ending. The ghost king deserves a better ending. The only Classic novels I've ever read are written by Agatha Christie. I love her writing! Clary from mortal instruments is a mary sue and just Cassandra Clare's writing just seem really bad. Especially her world. The shadows hunters world is very black and white thinking. So I'll never read her books. The show looks really good though. And I like it so far. I love Harry Potter but understand why it's problematic now. And that just makes me really said. I hate when creators turn out to be jerks. Why I strongly believe never meet your heroes. They always disappoint you. My favorite movie this year is "Don't worry darling". I thought it was brilliant and had a good twist. I love ghibli movies and my favorites are spirited away, whispers of the heart, the wind rises, and howls moving castle. If I don't like a part in a book I don't finish it. And if the first paragraph in a book doesn't catch my attention I don't finish it. I love the original dark fairy tales. I love happy endings.

#My thoughts #My opinions #danny phantom #the owl house #shera pop #Movies #Books #harry potter #mortal instruments #shadowhunters #80s #80s movies #don't worry darling #avatar the last airbender #disney #anime #sailor moon #studio ghibli

[yumnasfunblog]

(TW abuse, gaslighting) Guys I genuinely think Madam No is abusing Shadow. I mean it.

The Shadow before Madam No was a very confident woman who likes to talk a lot and never gets scared even if she's caught, but rather laughs in the heroes's faces or flirts with Geronimo. She's basically Zuko and Azula combined, but older than both.

But Shadow after Madam No is super quiet, avoids looking at people, completely freaks out every time anyone says Shadow even though they're not talking about her but the actual thing, instantly gets much nastier after having told Madam No she failed, and stays with Madam No despite Madam No having basically said she's using the Shadow as an unpaid underling by saying the treasure Shadow got was HERS not Shadow's and that she wasn't going to share.

It's not good.

It's also worth noting that Shadow significantly ups her game after meeting Madam No. She gives MUCH less subtle hints of her true identity (I probably should mention Shadow is a thief who uses disguises to trick people), stops accidentally dropping things (something she did pretty much all the books she showed up in), and actually tries to pretend to be Geronimo's fan in order to trick him into getting access to something she's interested in. (While this isn't necessarily a signal of abuse, because loads of people up their game after apprenticing under someone new, it is worth noting how much Shadow changed)

#geronimo stilton #tw abuse #tw gaslighting

[myinterestsvary-writes]

There's something to be said about my masochism when reading anti-Kataang makes me like my OTP even more.

#kataang #this or I'm willfilly ignorant despite actively searching for knowledge #nah it hasn't deterred me from believing that shipping ztara stems from fundamental misunderstandings of canon #also zuko isn't the true hero of the show... #if there should be a protagonist replacement it should be katara #i do not get why zuko is so oft-offered #katara is literally the narrator #also if it's because of 'if there is a hero gets the girl narrative I'd rather it be zuko' then say it #that's the vibe I'm getting #because telling the stiry primarily from Zuko's perspective especially in the media atla is in does not seem logical #especially when a strong woc lead is right there #also when will the downplaying of aang as a character cease?

[ultranos]

To what degree do you think fandom wrongfully ascribes traits Azula possesses to Zuko and vice-versa? Why do you think the fandom does that? Sometimes it seems we have a fanon Zuko who has all of the Fire siblings' positive traits and none of their negative traits along with a fanon Azula who has all of the Fire siblings' negative traits and none of their positive traits.

Short answer: woobification, probably.

Longer answer:

I think it's a very high degree, unfortunately. We have the work ethic thing, but Zuko is the one who has trouble accepting failure. He'll throw himself at the problem over and over without changing strategy or blaming other people for it (part of Zuko's arc is accepting failure and learning from it). Azula, in contrast, fails once then immediately changes gears to a different strategy. If Plan A doesn't work, then try Plan B. She gets in trouble when she hits Plan Z and has no idea what the hell to do. (Because asking for help is unthinkable for her, but Zuko conversely would have figured that out much earlier in the alphabet.)

And then there's the things like how Zuko is, initially, very much a Fire supremacist and distains other benders. While Azula surrounds herself with non-benders and an entire army of talented earthbenders. Zuko, to his credit, figures it out, but while Azula might be a nationalist and drinking the imperialism juice, she's never actually shown to be bigoted like a lot of her countrymen.

The actual bits of cruelty to prisoners we see or reckless disregard for collateral damage? That's on Zuko, especially s1 Zuko, who tries to emotionally manipulate/antagonize a captive Katara by threatening to burn one of the only surviving pieces of her cultural heritage if she doesn't turn over her friend. (Considering the real-world fight Indigenous people have to keep going through to get their own history out of the hands of private collections, this is an extremely inexcusable, cruel, and shitty thing for Zuko to do.) It's actually kind of important where in a world where prisoner mistreatment is normalized (the EK soldiers don't hesitate over morality when they decide to try to crush Iroh's hands, so I can't imagine they were afraid of consequences), the prisoners Azula took are healthy, whole and hale physically.

I'd probably even say that fandom overall weirdly forgets that Zuko is the more socially well-adjusted one. Azula's a human disaster outside of any context other than court or the military, both of which are rigidly structured institutions with clear lines of communication protocol. She's good there because there are literally rules for this sort of thing. Put her in a situation without anything like that, and she's clueless. Zuko's the one that actually has a positive Charisma-modifier.

As for why fandom does this...I think there's the usual amplification of good traits for a fan-favorite (male) character, but there's probably a degree of "this characterization showed up in a fanfic back in the day that got extremely popular, and now everyone forgets that it's not canon". (I don't actually know what fic this would even be, if this is true, just that the fandom is old enough for this sort of thing to happen) But I also think there's a weird binary at play, that there are heroes and there are villains, and heroes cannot have any "bad" traits and villains cannot have any "good". So to make things fit in this kind of worldview, one pretty much has to rewrite parts mentally to fit.

Which leads us to the perfect encapsulation of this phenomenon, as @raksha-the-demon pointed out to me: the infamous turtleduck pond scene. That scene is used to demonize Azula all the time, about how she throws rocks/bread at turtleducks, how she must hate/hurt animals, etc.

And Azula is never actually ever in the scene. We never see Azula throw anything at turtleducks. And yet a scene where she isn't even present, where her brother clearly is the one who causes harm, is one of the ones most often used to paint her as irredeemable.

#atla #fire hazard siblings #they're both a mix of good and bad #like...everybody else #it's a question of if the environment they are in #encourages the growth of the positive or negative traits #which conveniently is also the whole point of the roku-v-sozin thing #nos answers things

[sokkastyles]

I have many thoughts about the scene where Zuko burns Toph and how the show parallels it with Aang burning Katara, and how this is used as set up for Zuko becoming Aang's firebending teacher and them both bonding over learning the true meaning of fire in The Firebending Masters, which is great, and I've posted before about how Zuko works as someone who can teach Aang how to deal with the dangers of fire because he's both hurt others and been hurt by fire, but also I'm thinking about how those two very different situations show Zuko and Aang's differing relationship with fire - which of course is a metaphor for their relationship with violence.

I've also written before on this in relation to Aang treating firebending as a game early on in the series, and I think the show kind of muddles this by treating Zuko accidentally burning Toph as the result of recklessness. Which it is, and Zuko, especially early Zuko, was reckless with his firebending (particularly when he burned Suki's village) - but it's not the same kind of recklessness as Aang accidentally burning Katara because he isn't mindful enough of the danger.

Zuko knows very well the pain that fire can cause. But villain Zuko lashes out at others because he's in pain. The way he reacts to Toph when she comes upon him alone in The Western Air Temple is very similar to the way he reacts to Katara offering to help after Iroh is burned in The Chase, or even when Aang asks him if he thinks they might have been friends in The Blue Spirit, with a mindless blast of fire, an alarm to stay back. It's very obviously a defensive reaction. It's "hurt them before they hurt me," which is also very clearly a trauma reaction to his father burning him.

Zuko wonders after Toph runs away why he's so bad at being good, but the reason here is not because he doesn't know how to be good, it's because he's scared and he doesn't know how to trust and be vulnerable with others. Which also makes it difficult to deal with other people's vulnerability. He reacts to accidentally hurting Toph because he was scared by yelling at her, which scares her and ends in them both being scared and hurt.

Zuko isn't the only person who has to learn to trust here, though, because the gaang also has to learn to trust Zuko. Toph initially does not want to tell the gaang that Zuko was the one who burned her because she does trust him but doesn't trust them to believe it was an accident. Sokka and Aang are immediately distrustful of Zuko but then, interestingly, it's Katara who casts doubt on the idea that Zuko is really as devious as they think he is:

Sokka: Yeah, get him to come back and say he'll be our prisoner, then we'll jump him and really make him our prisoner. He'll never suspect it! [Aang and Sokka carry Toph away.]

Katara: [Following. Sarcastically.] You are a master of surprise, Sokka ...

Sokka's plan is inherently ridiculous, but the humor comes mostly from dramatic irony. We know that Zuko was being sincere when he offered himself as a prisoner, and we also know that he didn't mean to burn Toph. So Katara's sarcastic reaction to Sokka implies that on some level, she knows that Zuko was being sincere, too. Which follows from how she's the first to react angrily to Zuko when he offers himself before. She doesn't want to trust Zuko, but a surrendering Zuko is someone who is putting himself in a position of trust, and because Katara did trust Zuko once, she knows that he is sincere but worries that he can't be trusted to stick to that sincerity.

There's a lot here from both sides about how it's easier to react defensively than to put your trust in others, which is making yourself vulnerable to hurt. Aang says he hates to resort to violence but Zuko is too dangerous to leave alone. A story less interested in redemption would have validated this reaction and made this a catalyst for Zuko to slide back into villainy as the heroes conclude that he can't be trusted with rehabilitation. Atla does something really unique and nuanced here that I've rarely seen done before by letting the characters talk it out and acknowledge where their hurt is coming from, but not in a way that comes across as naive or preachy.

#zuko #atla meta #the western air temple #toph #katara #aang #sokka #the firebending masters #elemental symbolism