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#corvega
thefalloutwiki · 8 months
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We're going to try a different sort of post today. A compilation of interesting little details that we spotted in the art for Fallout 76's 14th season, Fight for Freedom.
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First off, the cars shown off in the art consist of a Chryslus Sedan as seen in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, with two Corvega Atomic V8s from Fallout 4 and 76 shown on either side.
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Secondly, the marching soldiers appear to be wearing a version of the Free States Revolutionary outfit, available in 76's Atomic Shop.
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And finally, the building behind Liberty Prime appears to be loosely based on the real life Chrysler Building. Members of our Discord server have unofficially dubbed this the "Chryslus Building," although a location by the same name has already appeared in Fallout 3.
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We're not going to link you to anything in particular today, but you can join our Discord server and join in these conversations (or just enjoy the dear hearts and gentle people) using this link here: discord.gg/falloutwiki
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callmewisteria · 13 days
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mspaint is for making shitty fallout edits
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b3thesda-b3tch · 6 months
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Corvega Vibes
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- SO IF I’M REMEMBERING ALL OF THIS CORRECTLY:
   - PICKMAN’S GALLERY: the nasty little freak painted a bunch of ominously portentious-looking paintings in blood and yellow pigment of questionable origin.
       - several of his works feature motifs of golden ribbons/spirals/halos/eyes which look eerily similar to the designs on the ZEALOTS’ armour, as well as subjects with circular facial tattoos/carvings much like the CHILDREN have.
       - by far the most striking painting is of a golden eye opening in a red sky, surrounded by ripples and unintelligible writing of the same colour, as blackened and burning hands reach upwards in fear or supplication - quite the portrayal of the apocalypse for a human, who couldn’t possibly be old enough to have seen it.
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       - PICKMAN’s name is a reference to a racist/homophobic story by HOWARD PHILLIP LOVECRAFT, wherein the titular PICKMAN paints fucked up inhuman dog people in regular everyday settings, using photographs as references for his work, and the big twist is that these photographs aren’t of the cityscapes in the background of his work but of the monsters in the foreground - the monsters are real, not drawn from his imagination. if PICKMAN is intended as a reference in more than name, it’s possible that he’s seen some things that should not be.
   - DUNWICH BORERS: very shortly before the war, the mysterious and sinister “MANAGEMENT” were using the quarry as a site for mysterious and sinister rituals.
       - these rituals involved MINI NUKES in some capacity, putting them less than a month (i think) before the apocalypse - i remember when i visited FORT STRONG something that gave me a “huh!” moment was that MINI NUKES had only finished development a month or so before the world ended, so even with how far they spread within that month that’s a narrow window for MANAGEMENT to get their hands on some.
       - in their final message to TIM STOKES, MANAGEMENT stated that they were “very close to accomplishing [their] goal” - of course, it’s possible the ritual failed, but the presence of nuclear weapons and the fact that the world ended in fire within any time period from the same month to the same hour...
      - i had assumed that the ritual involved the use of KREMVH’S TOOTH, the fucked up knife left with two MINI NUKES on the altar, but while making the above gif i looked more closely at the person doing the ritual and noticed that their knife is way too straight to be it, so it’s possible that the TOOTH was a result of the ritual rather than an ingredient. don’t the CHILDREN worship ATOM for its ability to transform?
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          - JACK CABOT’s comment about “disturbing geometries, tools not meant for human hands” also springs to mind when contemplating the TOOTH.
  - the CABOTS: LORENZO unearthed an ostentatious helmet from an ancient civilisation, heavily implied to be created by entities beyond the scope of our reality.
       - one of the effects of this object was to make him extremely resistant to radiation, as evidenced by the SERUM that his family bled from him to keep themselves eternally young - a serum so effective against the FOG that it was suggested by the game as a treatment for ANDRE. while i don’t yet know precisely how ATOM’S BLESSING works, this degree of radiation immunity/resistance without the drawbacks of physical mutation doesn’t show up many other places that i’ve seen.
      - it just so happens that HIGH CONFESSOR TEKTUS wears a vaguely similar headdress - far from identical, but close enough in general shape to notice, almost like a budget version constructed by a group without the resources of an apparently advanced civilisation and with slightly different symbology of the deity they worship.
           - another interesting detail: the central symbol of the CHILDREN OF ATOM’s crown (located at the third eye...) is, of course, an atom, with all the symbolism of life and death and power that holds. the centrepiece of LORENZO’s crown, on the other hand, is a scarab - often symbolic of the sun, which, in an equatorial region such as where it was found, often represent many of the same things as the atom in a world defined both by nuclear power and nuclear devastation.
    - and that brings us to the CHILDREN OF ATOM.
        - the CHILDREN, who worship an infinitely powerful deity from between realities, believed to have entered this world by the door of nuclear devastation, and etch their god’s circles and eyes into their possessions and bodies.
        - the CHILDREN, many of whom display an extremely rare immunity to radiation that doesn’t come with a side order of disfigurement (so far all the people who are confirmed to have this ability are the ones not going bald in patches), which they claim is a blessing from their deity.
        - the CHILDREN, who, despite the laughable quality of the nonsense to which they subscribe, still somehow manage to deliver on a surprising amount of what they preach, from the BLESSINGS to the strange effects of the MUSHROOM WATER to somehow remaining an active threat to their enemies despite embracing suffering as a virtue and living in literal filth and poison by choice.
            - i mean, the objective of their religion is to die of radiation poisoning. in order to survive this long, throwing themselves directly at death and missing enough times to make it to the next generation,  they’d need to be insanely, impossibly lucky - or there’d have to be something to their bullshit. even if they don’t actually know what they’re looking at, even if there’s just a pinch, a grain, an atom of truth at the centre of it all.
- with all of this considered, there is one thing of which i am absolutely certain: somehow, this is going to bring me back to the CORVEGA ASSEMBLY PLANT.
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portergage · 1 year
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😎🍑
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[ PREVIOUS ] . . . [ NEXT ]
"I can hardly believe a place like this actually exists. I don’t even feel the urge to clean." - Codsworth
Hello.
This is </null>. They woke up one day in a strange white place with a man in a lab coat and a child. Then they found themselves awake in a place called home. The robot knew them. They had memories of the place. The robot is very nice. It knew the spouse and child. They love the spouse and child. The memories know. The robot knows, too.
[ PREVIOUS ] . . . [ NEXT ]
< BONUS THINKINGS >
Hello.
First off: this is my Survival playthrough I have going on concurrently to my Sizzel game. Sizzel has about 2 days on it, so sometimes I step away. Plus I was monumentally let down when I tried to go rogue on the landing of the Overboss' dorm room or whatever it's called. Did you know no one gets hostile... unless you shoot Gage? I hate this game sometimes.
Second: I play my Survival save in black and white. I think of it as a much more engaging and dramatic experience.
Now. Let's talk about one of my favorite things to talk about: the number of heavy-handed changes I've made to the game mechanics to play exactly the way I wanted to.
I've made it so that the damage values across the game are increased extremely high, and that both the damage ideal and the damage deal to me are multiplied by 4. That has seemed to lead to a nice balance where attacks take a reasonably realistic number of hits to take someone down, usually in the one range. I also downloaded a mod that I need to remember the name of, next time I open the thing I'll try and take a look, but it completely rebalances headshots so that they are always lethal so long as the caliber of the weapon is proportionally powerful enough for the size of the creature.
So as you can imagine, any firefight I get engaged in is a really short fast tussle, and leads to some absolutely ridiculously engaging moments. Cracking off with a pipe and watching a super mutant slowly fall backwards, only to sprint in the other direction out of fear as several hounds sprint towards me. I use the same cocktail of mods for my non-survival playthrough as well, but on the survival difficulty the lack of fast travel and the additional impact of body health simulation systems lends itself to the hyperlethal game mode I've cultivated. I also downloaded Bastion, a mod that rebalances power armor, but I haven't really used any yet, so I'm waiting to review. I'm excited because it makes it so all damage taken is zero until the air breaks, then whatever area broke off becomes a weak point.
Additional mods I would love to get: I watched a video where somebody said that on survival difficulty you should be able to fast travel from a settlement to another settlement that is connected by a supply route. I thought that was brilliant, and I agree. Crafting: way more recipes, way better interface. I've finally drained all the affection I have for the default HUD, but FallHUD requires compatibility patches, and I don't even know any other mods.
Also, I know there's a voice pitch modulator mod: I'd love if Sizzel and </null> sounded different.
Oh </null> has no name because they're a synth and Father is a quack, so the value in their brain for name is empty. Hence... </null>.
In my heart both characters exist in the same game, but alas, nobody cares, and so, I can't.
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maggotwithanf · 1 year
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COMMONWEALTH WRECKIN CREW OPEN FOR BUSINESS
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callsignbaphomet · 3 months
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I think Jelani gets a little (read: extremely) offended when there's a sniper taking shots at him and out of pure unfiltered pride competition, to see who's the better sniper, he zeroes in on the sniper in a tunnel vision sorta way.
Oh, he might have the most unhinged and biggest smirk on his face while going 1 v 1 with another sniper but as soon as he notices one you know that boy's like, "Unnskyld meg!? Hva i helvete!?"
There's marks on his rifle for every confirmed counter sniper kill. Longest confirmed kill being 3.3 miles.
Pretty sure the others are like, kid, please. You're not the only sniper out here lol. Why the saltiness?
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phoebebarton · 1 year
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our chryslus highwayman
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when I was a teenager I was obsessed with cars with big tailfins specifically because the car in Fallout 2 has them and I was 15 when it came out and very impressionable
but, also, look at them
look at them
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purkinje-effect · 2 years
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I’ve been wanting to redo the cover art for First Instar for some time now, and I finally let myself. Hopefully it scans visually as a high rise office. Rambling under the cut.
If you’re interested in The Anatomy of Melancholy, the most recent chapter’s always pinned on my blog, and a table of contents link is at the top of it. All likes and reblogs welcome. (Extensive CWs for horror esp. body horror, drug use, insects, and miles of characters with grey-to-scalding karma including the MC. I try to label CWs as thoroughly as possible at the beginning of each chapter: do heed them. There’s two DDW chapters in First Instar, and I mean that warning very strongly, especially as I illustrate these things from time to time. This fic is not suitable for minors or the squeamish.)
I didn’t break up AoM by Instar until about halfway through Second Instar. Lexington & Concord was supposed to be a placeholder until I thought of something better. Location wordplay’s going to be the common tie for all five Instars, I think, and I like this subtle change a lot.
I really liked the original 2019 cover when I did it, but I didn’t think it was all too representative of the fic itself. Too, it’s the first book of the pentalogy: it’s deserving of something a little more intense than what I had, now that I’m more capable of putting it together. That, and I really needed to include the visual detail that he’s a wheelchair user. For being one myself, I sure don’t draw them as often as I’d like.
I’d never really been happy calling the DDW chapters “Rexford Press” because it suggests ‘Choly ends up with a printing press in Goodneighbor, and at this point I seriously doubt it. The Rexton Nova’s his typewriter, owing to his Naked Lunch roots.
I promise I’ll do a revision pass soon and add footnotes and author’s notes to the first two Instars. Thanks for sticking with me almost five years now!
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thefalloutwiki · 7 months
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Fallout 3: Corvega Atomic V-8
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Pictured: Billboard advertisement for the Corvega Atomic V-8, a car produced by the Chryslus Motors Corporation.
In the intro for the original Fallout, a Corvega model is shown off with a price tag of $199,999.99, with the ad ending with the Chryslus logo. You can read more about Chryslus and Corvega here:
https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Corvega
https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Chryslus_Motors_Corporation
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angry-geese · 2 years
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Realizing that fallout 4 came out almost seven years ago now makes me feel so old kdhdkfh
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sywilliamsiii04 · 1 year
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2055 Chryslus Corvega V8 D'Elegance / @fyeahfallout
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- MADISON refers to SHAUN by name on tape, but as “father” when speaking to me. has he specifically instructed everyone to call him that while i’m around? double what the fuck.
- on to the S.R.B.! these guys sound like cops, and i am gonna give them the mushroom treatment accordingly.
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- aw yiss, i’ve got access to their operations logs! looks like C2-41 got away, and S9-43 is either in the BROTHERHOOD’s custody or has joined them under false memories. neither option sparks joy.
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- damn. i was hoping the RAILROAD would be keeping an eye on their mindwiped synths, but i guess they don’t have the resources. the downside of free will is that sometimes one uses it to become a RAIDER i guess :/
    - X6-88 is a name that appears in my list of encountered people (trawled through my liveblog to try and find all the ones i mentioned - there are a Lot). i think this is the synth i saw in KELLOGG’s memories, the badass with the shades?
- there’s also a K8 in my notes, mentioned in passing by the CARETAKER of the MERCER SAFE HOUSE - no real way to tell if this was K8-23, but i hope not :(
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- ... at the centre of reality there is a black hole so dense that its impossibly sparse accretion disk is formed of all the universes that ever will be, the entirety of their vast lifespans playing out untold billions of times as they are inexorably drawn into the centre of its inescapable gravity. and at the centre of this black hole is the CORVEGA ASSEMBLY PLANT.
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volcanicflowers · 3 months
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omg.. fordout new vegas...........
recently captivated by the urge to do a fallout new vegas run playing as ford prefect Corvega Coupe (lore accurate)
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edaworks · 22 days
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Wasteland Survival Guide: The Institute, Fusion Reactors, and M.I.T.'s Actual Basement
It's that time again. Periodically I make unreasonable longposts about Fallout-related topics (it's a good way to keep track of fic research). Today I'm tackling nuclear fusion, the Institute, and the real-world Massachusetts Institute of Technology's basement.
Yeah, Yeah, M.I.T. is the Institute, We've All Seen - Wait, What Do You Mean, "The Vault Laboratory?"
M.I.T. - the Massachusetts Institute of Technology - is a highly exclusive research university with a well-deserved reputation for hosting brilliant minds.
It also got its serial numbers filed off in order to host the in-game Institute. Why? Probably because of all the very real research into robotics, artificial intelligence, and power armor (no really). And because M.I.T. is actually doing now what the Institute tries to do in-game with nuclear fusion.
And, of course, because of the vaults in the basement.
You know what? I'll just start at the top...Read on below.
I'll be focusing on fusion-related research in this post, and comparing in-game Institute work on fusion to what's actually happening over at M.I.T. (We'll get to the Media Laboratory and robotics and AI and the, uhm, power armor stuff in a separate post. Or three.)
all actual M.I.T. researchers/faculty/students and/or nuclear physicists have my sincere apologies, I don't know shit about shit but I'm doing my best
I Didn't Sign Up for a Physics Class, but Okay
Here's the thing about nuclear fusion generators - y'know...the ones powering nearly** the entirety of pre-war in-game America?
Including self-contained, miniaturized reactors (fusion cores, fusion cells, microfusion cells, Corvega engines, assaultron and robobrain power supplies, recharger weapons, G.E.C.K.s, etc.) and full-scale reactors (powering vaults, the Lucky 38, the Prydwen (and Rivet City before Maxson Happened), missile silos, etc.)...?
We don't have them yet.
Of course we have nuclear power generation, what are you talking about?
Yes - but nuclear power plants currently operating use fission reactors! Fusion reactors, though? Well...
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For the pre-war in-game universe, even more than for us, that fuel-to-energy ratio would have been absurdly important. Companies rushed to implement fusion for damn near every possible use, but waited until the Resource Wars left them no other choice. "No more (viable) oil reserves? Well, shit. Fusion it is."
Because of this, by October 23, 2077, pre-war Western markets were still somewhat new to adopting miniaturized nuclear fusion reactors.
For instance, Chryslus' first fusion vehicles - intentionally reminiscent of the absolutely wild Ford Nucleon concept car dreamed up in 1957 - came to market in 2070, less than a decade before the nuclear exchange.
As for the other benefits of nuclear fusion...Atom knows the in-game universe could do with less radioactive contamination:
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It is no wonder the Institute wants to get the reactor in their basement up, running, and running better than originally designed.
Real-life M.I.T. is no stranger to running fusion reactors - they've been at it since the late '60s - but as it turns out, they are currently also "building a better mousetrap," and if they succeed they will be achieving all the Institute would hope for in clean energy production - without the moral deficit.
If nuclear fusion is so great, why aren't we using this technology yet IRL?
Because - and I cannot stress this enough - we are attempting to levitate bits of the Sun inside a donut to make really hot things boil water* so steam will turn a fan attached to a dynamo to power light bulbs.
*(there are two other ways to generate power using this heat)
Naturally...this comes with some complications.
We know fusion reactors can be the most energy-efficient form of power generation - we just need better reactors. That's where M.I.T. comes in.
The biggest problem right now is efficiency:
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TL;DR - as of April 2024, all fusion reactors as a matter of course still consume more power to run than they are able to produce (meaning they do not reach "breakeven"). Many cutting-edge reactors also require tritium (very rare) as well as deuterium (very common) fuel.
We did not even see a fusion reaction that reached "breakeven" for power production until December of 2022. That reaction occurred at the National Ignition Facility in California, and their results just passed peer review in February of this year (2024).
Several in-progress reactors aim to improve on this, including ITER (the combined work of dozens of nations) in France, and SPARC: the new reactor under development by Mass Fusion Commonwealth Fusion Systems and M.I.T.'s Plasma Science and Fusion Center (PSFC).
Another big problem with this technology is that it involves plasma.
Plasma, as a particular song reminds us, is what the Sun is made of and The Sun Is Hot. That means plasma carries some very real 'we're-losing-structural-integrity, the-warp-core-is-breaching' risks, and we must jump through all kinds of hoops to work with it.
Why are we shoving the Sun inside a donut, again?
The most well-funded, well-researched way of smashing atoms together involves plasma and magnetic confinement fusion.
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This shit is beyond cool. It may also look very familiar:
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In-game, the Institute is trying to get what appears to be a spherical tokamak reactor up and running.
Bethesda's choice of reactor was no coincidence: M.I.T. operated the Alcator C-Mod, a spherical tokamak, while Fallout 4 was under development - but that reactor could not achieve "breakeven" IRL, and per Shaun's in-game dialogue, the fictional Alcator C-Mod couldn't either. (Weird given the miniaturized fusion devices everywhere in-universe, but okay, Shaun.)
However, M.I.T. stopped operating that reactor in 2016, a year after Fallout 4's release. SPARC, their planned replacement reactor actually has the sort of power potential we see in-game - and they aim to bring fusion power to market in this decade.
M.I.T., right now, in real life, is doing exactly what you're asked to help the Institute do in-game: build a fusion reactor that surpasses "breakeven."
What the hell is a tokamak and why does it look like half of a Star Trek warp core?
Your typical tokamak reactor is a great big donut-shaped vacuum chamber (the torus), traditionally surrounded by AT LEAST three sets of electromagnets (sometimes many more). M.I.T.'s design for the new SPARC reactor is a bit different, but let's start with the basics.
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Why so many magnets?
Because plasma, being Literal Sun Matter, cannot come into contact with the torus containment walls or it will instantly burn through. (This happened in France in 1975. Following initial "well, fuck"s and a couple years' repairs, the logical next step was to publish a paper about it.)
The magnetic fields work to heat the plasma and provide current drive (keep electrons moving in a consistent direction through the plasma and around the torus), while also keeping it from touching anything, preventing a "warp core breach." I'll take a stab at explaining it but the Department of Energy probably does it better.
Meet the magnets:
Toroidal field magnets (blue, above): These enormous D-shaped magnets wrap around and through the torus, conducting an electrical current. This creates a magnetic field that keeps plasma from drifting horizontally into the containment walls.
Central solenoid (green, above): Inside the "donut hole" sits a massive, stacked electromagnet that generates enough electromagnetic force to launch two space shuttles at once. This heats the fuel to about one hundred million degrees Celsius so that it reaches plasma state, and helps "drive" the plasma current around the torus. (Radiofrequency or neutral beam injection heating/drive may be used as well for reactor prototypes aiming for power generation, because current drive from just the solenoid isn’t practical for continuous operation.) The central solenoid also creates another magnetic field called the "poloidal field," which "loops" around the plasma like a collar to prevent it from drifting vertically into the walls. The strongest central solenoid in existence was made for the ITER reactor...by General Atomics.
Outer poloidal field magnets (grey, above): A third set of electromagnets "stacks" up the outside of the torus, and helps maintain and adjust the poloidal field.
Together these three sets of magnets force the plasma to "float" inside the torus, shape it, and provide current drive. The stronger the magnetic field, the higher the reactor's power output.
Okay, and then what?
Given sufficient heat and drive/stability, the plasma fuel mixture undergoes fusion.
Neutrons released during fusion have plenty of kinetic energy (the kind of energy a kickball has midair before it hits you in the face), but no electric charge.
Since magnetic fields only affect negatively or positively charged particles, neutrons completely ignore the fields, sailing straight through and slamming into a "blanket" of metal coating the donut's insides. Neutrons passing into the 'blanket" lose their kinetic energy, which is converted to heat and absorbed by the "blanket." (ITER's "blanket" involves a lot of beryllium, which...behaves a bit differently IRL than it does in-game.)
Heat captured by the "blanket" is then used to generate power. For instance, a water cooling system can bleed heat from the "blanket," regulating temperature and creating superheated highly-pressurized steam to run turbine generators.
I notice you described a "typical" tokamak above -what's the atypical option?
Check out SPARC.
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Its huge design departure is that it uses new high-temperature superconducing magnets (most existing types have to be cooled to vacuum-of-space temperatures using something like a liquid helium system to achieve superconductivity, which is a huge power drain) to create a monstrous magnetic field - and its size is tiny in comparison to its projected power output.
Neat. So why did you refer to plasma as a problem?
Well...between the heat and the neutrons, the "blanket," the "first wall" and all plasma-facing surfaces inside the torus take one hell of a beating:
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"Neutron degradation of wall surfaces-" "Energy is released in the form of the kinetic energy of the reaction products-" In practical terms, that just means countless neutrons are doing THIS:
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...but to the containment wall and other surfaces inside the torus, instead of to Batshuayi's face. And so:
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Basically, this stuff breaks fast enough - and the only materials that don't break quickly are rare enough - to create a real barrier to commercial use.
And THIS is one of the problems they're working on solving in M.I.T.'s basement.
Now we can talk about the Vault. FINALLY.
M.I.T. is home to the Center for Science and Technology with Accelerators and Radiation (CSTAR). CSTAR's splash page announces:
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Linear plasma devices? You mean like -
No, not like plasma rifles. Instead of weapons, we're talking about tools being used to solve the "plasma fucking destroys everything it touches" problem.
How does CSTAR do this? They've got CLASS. ...No, really:
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This field is called plasma-surface interaction science, and if you want a really long but very informative read on how CSTAR's work helps move it forward, check this out. It involves the DIONISOS Linear Plasma Device - a "let's shoot it with plasma and see what happens" tool.
CSTAR also works to better undertstand how materials handle radiation damage, and how they behave after becoming irradiated.
And to handle this sort of work, one needs a...
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The Vault Laboratory for Nuclear Science "combines high-intensity particle sources, precision particle detection, and a heavily shielded experimental area to create a facility for nuclear research in high-radiation environments." It contains, among other things:
the DT Neutron Generator, which is used in a variety of experiments, including radiation detector development (pretty damned important) and characterization, fast neutron imaging, and material activation (stuff becoming radioactive).
the DANTE Tandem Accelerator, which was "originally designed to produce high neutron yields for use in cancer therapy research."
And that is what's actually going on in M.I.T.'s basement: truth is cooler than fiction.
The takeaways:
Yes, M.I.T. really is building a revolutionary fusion reactor with parts from Mass Fusion Commonwealth Fusion Systems.
Yes, there really is a secure underground facility where incredibly advanced research related to nuclear fusion, radiation detection, irradiated materials, and degradation of materials due to radiation exposure takes place.
Yes, I really would spend eight hours researching nuclear physics instead of doing more dishes. Shoutout to @twosides--samecoin for tolerating my absurd hyperfocus on researching this.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk on what M.I.T. is really doing in its basement.
Tune in next time for M.I.T.'s Media Laboratory, and how it is related to real-world power armor, plus: the relationship between Langley, P.A.M.'s IRL cousin, and Vault 101.
** (Fallout is wildly inconsistent re: how widespread fusion is in-game and when it was developed. I mean we're talking a two-decade spread of inconsistency! And somehow the technology - first available to the military - was then miniaturized and made available to the general public before becoming widespread for commercial power generation? And somehow we both do and don't have impossible cold fusion in game? It's a mess. I reject this reality and replace it with a fish, hence this post. Also, I hate fission batteries. don't talk to me about fission batteries, "fission batteries" are small fission reactors but they are definitely not "battery sized" - the "fission batteries" in-universe are so miniaturized that they are more likely another kind of atomic battery like a radioisotope thermoelectric generator and those are subject to a law of diminishing returns as the fuel decays/not producing a reasonably useful power output after over 200 years due to the isotopes normally used/can be VERY dangerous if the shielding is breached or removed, and - you know what, that's also a whole different post.)
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