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#htlj spoilers
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Hercules and the Amazon Women
Okay, now that I own all of HTLJ, XWP and YH (including the movies) I decided it's time to watch everything.
I watched "Hercules and the Amazon Women" for the first time ever earlier this week and it was just... wild.
I don't know what I expected, really, but since I'm most familiar with Young Hercules, and a little bit of Xena, there was a lot that surprised me. (I will also say, I was afraid of Kevin Sorbo as a kid so I didn't really watch HTLJ much when it was on TV, and I have forgotten most of what I did watch. What I know about the show is... Hercules and Iolaus are buddies who travel around and things happen? And afaik they are single with random flings with women.)
I have so many thoughts.
First of all: We see Zeus??
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He's just straight up a character in the movie, with lines, and telling Hercules he's his favourite son, and definitely wanting to bang Alcmene.
To say this left me in shock is an understatement. Don't get me wrong, his character was actually a delight (even when he was being a piece of shit) but like, coming from having watched a portion of Young Hercules, where Zeus is notably absent, it's a bit of a shock to the system to have him just fucking around and casually telling Hercules how much he likes him, etc. (Because on YH, Hercules is trying desperately to win his father's approval.)
(But also Zeus wtf tell your wife to stop trying to kill your kid?)
Also: Iolaus is getting married?
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Okay, so, again, I don't know much about the plot of HTLJ but I do know that Iolaus goes around with Hercules and I'm like 99% sure that he has some romantic interests?
But anyway they're super cute together and in love ♥♥♥
So, my first thought was "well, they sure are foreshadowing that Iolaus might die going on this trip, but since I know he's in the TV show, it must be his wife that dies, and that's why he's single in the show".
Which brings me to: IOLAUS FUCKING DIES??
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He just straight up dies. Like a third of the way into the movie. And is not part of the plot after that. He just is dead. I kept waiting for them to like, cut back to him having actually survived and healing up someplace, and coming to help Herc at a crucial moment. But alas.
Hercules turns into a baby at one point in the movie.
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I just thought that part was weird. Even if the candle shows someone their past, idk why it would change their body at the same time.
Also... what was the point of this???
She is trying to show him how he is a dick, but if she doesn't think he can change, and she plans to kill him anyway.... what was the point of trying to show him the error of his ways? It's a waste of her time.
"What if I tried to change?" "You can't change. You're a man."
This was poorly thought out. Especially since she says "It's not my intention that you should suffer needlessly. It's not a female trait." Like, okay, sure. What the fuck are you doing then? I don't get her motivation for doing all of this.
Hercules refuses to carry a weapon.
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This surprised me because I guess I just forgot about this, or maybe it's only a thing in HTLJ and not YH? I swear Hercules sometimes carries weapons in YH?
IDK I was just shocked by it. I'm curious to see if this remains consistent. He kind of mocks Iolaus for having a weapon, but like, Iolaus would have died (earlier) without his sword to cut the rope off his neck, just saying. And Hercules doesn't refuse to use weapons. He's happy to take weapons off people and use them, he just refuses to carry weapons, which... he's got demigod super strength. If anything it would tire him less than it does Iolaus. I don't get the logic behind it tbh.
While we're on the topic of weird Hercules philosophy:
Hercules thinks nobody should worship the gods.
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I get where he's coming from, since he's a demigod and he's met the gods and they're dicks and all... Though, this being the first movie, the audience wouldn't know that, so I guess I'm giving him a lot of benefit of the doubt here. But, the issue I have with this isn't so much that he doesn't have respect for the gods, but that he tells other people not to.
This is just privilege, my guy. It's easy enough for him to shrug off the gods, but the people whose shrine he's destroying aren't demigods, and when they piss off the gods, there are dire consquences (as we see when multiple people die in this movie because Hera's pissed). It's so irresponsible for him to advocate that people anger the gods when they have no recourse if the gods attack them.
(Ironically, this is something they kinda explore in YH, but that whole show is retcon so I'll give them a pass on that.)
I guess Hercules thinks people are better off dead than worshipping gods, idk.
Hercules thinks men should be hard and unchanging like stone.
We see him being taught this by some fighting teacher of his as a kid. I want to say this is one of the beliefs that changes in him during the movie, but since I've now seen the second movie and he tells this same shit to some people in that movie, I'm inclined to think he still believes it by the end of this movie and it's antithetical to the theme of this movie so it just feels weird.
Hercules is an open misogynist.
I... This was the theme of the movie. It was a cringey, heavy-handed story about how everyone is wrong when they're sexist, and this movie is like the first Hercules media, so they wouldn't have the YH plot stuff to draw from, but it feels really weird having seen a bunch of YH stuff where he meets Amazon women and respects women (Kora, Lilith, etc.) in his daily life and considers them trusted friends... and then see him be so openly hostile toward women and disparage them as needing to be protected because they're weak, and telling Iolaus to get out of the kitchen because only women belong there... It was rough.
He learns better by the end of the movie, I guess.
Is Hercules Ace/Aro/Gay?
This is sort of a weird tangent, because I feel like Young Hercules (at least in the tv show) is shown to be interested in women. But I didn't really buy Kevin Sorbo's acting when he "falls" for the Amazon queen. I didn't feel like they had any chemistry, whereas I totally bought the friendship between him and Iolaus.
Herc talks with Iolaus about him getting married and basically doesn't seem to understand why Iolaus would want to marry a wife who can't cook well, tend his clothes, or tend the animals well. When Iolaus says she's beautiful, Herc is basically like "what does that matter", and then Iolaus says he's in love and he doesn't expect Herc to get it, and Hercules is kinda like "well I sure don't get why my friend wants this, but I guess it's his life".
Iolaus suggests that Herc will find a woman one day and understand and Herc says "Me? Never."
Also Hippolyta asks him about loving Iolaus: "Could you love a woman as you loved Iolaus?" "It's different with women."
This might just be to make the whole "Hercules doesn't respect women" point, but it's an interesting series of events/statements.
Lucy Lawless is in this movie!
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Not as Xena, although she looks kinda like Xena, so when she showed up I mistakenly thought we might get a Xena origin story or something. I was mildly disappointed. (But look, so pretty!)
I got really upset when they killed Pithus, and it felt really unneeded and underplayed. It was around this point that I was starting to think maybe there would be some Zeus intervention to bring people back to life.
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Before I move on to that, though, can I just say: The scene where Hercules carries Hippolyta's corpse into town... wouldn't everyone assume he killed her?
Last they knew she ran off to try to kill him, and when he comes back he doesn't explain anything right away. I guess they were all just okay with that since they wanted to all live peacefully in town together? IDK. It feels like the Amazon women were very easily swayed into living with the men again and just stopped caring about Hippolyta too quickly. (Not that I wanted them to be mad at Hercules, but... it just felt not very believable for people living in essentially cult conditions.)
Zeus did something!
I really liked that Hercules gave Zeus shit at the end, and talked him into reversing time for him. It's not how I thought they were gonna revive Iolaus, but it's good enough.
(I am told they planned to keep Iolaus dead but they liked Michael Hurst so much that they decided to revive him just in case. What an excellent call. ♥)
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Okay, Hercules was actually likeable at the very very end of the movie. His enthusiasm to eat Ania's stew was actually cute.
I still don't really know how I feel about Kevin Sorbo Hercules yet.
Final thoughts:
I was surprised how much I liked both Zeus and Alcmene.
I was not surprised how much I loved Iolaus, and I look forward to more of him.
Also Ania is so cute, I'm scared about what happens.
The sexism theme was not handled that well/subtly but maybe for the time it wasn't that bad?
Hercules is characterized very differently than he is in YH. (And that's fine, I'm not holding it against this series, I understand why that would happen and I can separate the two.)
I don't think this movie will be one I watch over and over.
I'm really looking forward to watching more HTLJ and I'm honestly surprised how much I enjoyed this despite my complaints! ♥
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iolausian-fields · 7 months
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ʜᴇʀᴄᴜʟᴇꜱ ᴛʜᴇ ʟᴇɢᴇɴᴅᴀʀʏ ᴊᴏᴜʀɴᴇʏꜱ s2e01 - The King of Thieves
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I made the executive decision to inflict the Callisto HTLJ crossover episode on my friends before we watched A Necessary Evil (because I didn't know about it the first time I watched XWP and was extremely confused about how Callisto got out of Tartarus and became immortal) and I'm glad I did but not only did we have to endure almost 45 minutes of Kevin Sorbo, I also now have the HTLJ theme music stuck in my head :( I have absolutely nothing but respect for Joseph LoDuca but holy fuck XWP's music is so much better than HTLJ's. Also Kevin Smith without facial hair is kind of cursed, ngl. Also the guy who played Jason I think also played the dad of the twink of the week in Chariots of War and, if I'm not mistaken, also played the father of Quintus Lentulus Batiatus in Spartacus? That man truly was Assigned Dad At Renaissance Pictures Production
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whitewaterpaper · 5 years
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Legend of The Seeker: Hunger [S02E12]
¡Oi! Spoilers, stavfel och alternativa fakta kan förekomma rakt föröver!
Ser om Legend of the Seeker med @kulturdasset. Läs kulturdassets omdöme om avsnittet här.
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Det här är ännu ett av LotS väldigt många avsnitt som sätter upp en jäkligt intressant premiss som hade kommit mer till sin rätt i dagens typ av berättande. Här talar jag kanske främst av Caras del av intrigen.
Även om jag alltid har tyckt att det är lite för enkelt för vagnsföraren att ta Cara av daga i början av avsnittet så är det något jag har överseende med till förmån för de intressanta delarna Cara som baneling innebär.
Jag har aldrig varit särskilt chockad över att det uppstår/uppstått en industri kring de människor som återkommer som baneling och därmed gärna vill ha enkla själar att köpa sina dagar med. Här är kanske första gången dessutom som vi får lära känna baneling som art lite bättre. Det finns en viss logik i att det finns en viss hunger efter att döda associerad med att vara baneling.
En detalj som, morbid nog, alltid får mig att le är ”hon är vek, ge henne en liten en”. Så vitt jag vet så finns ingen form av intern valuta kring själarna. Alla själar som inte redan är bundna till The Keeper är gångbara för ytterligare en dags liv.
Delarna där man får följa Cara (vars karaktär formats kring den disciplin som krävs av en Mord’Sith) och hennes ständiga kamp att hitta ”rätt offer” för att köpa sig mer tid är väldigt intressanta. Och jag hade gärna sett att den delen av storyn fått expandera, här blir det ju väldigt förenklat när Richard aldrig riktigt behöver ta ställning till Caras situation. (Även om det är underförstått att han vill att hon slutar).
Sebastian är en trevlig karaktär att åter stifta bekantskap med. Han påminner mig om Salmonius från HtLJ och XWP. Och samtidigt som det är skönt att man inte överanvände karaktären så hade han gärna fått vara med ett par avsnitt till i serien.
Thaddickus (jag har aldrig fått ihop att han fortfarande lever om Zedd verkligen skulle ha varit och studerat i den gamla världen) gör också ett bejublat inhopp. Skall vi snacka HtLJ och XWP igen så har han något gemensamt med Autolycus. Hans tvära kast mellan de moraliska ståndpunkterna är underhållande att se.
En annan detalj som är intressant är Kahlans avslöjande på slutet – att hon antagligen skulle gjort samma sak som Cara och tacka ja till erbjudandet från The Keeper. Det tyder på en Kahlan som klivit ned några pinnhål till från den piedestal hon en gång klättrade upp på. I början av säsongen hade hon säkerligen mer än gärna dömt ut Caras beslut utan att tänka på hur hon skulle ha reagerat i samma situation.
Skuggvattnet då? Intressant liten plotdevice. Annat kan man inte säga, och kanske var det lika bra att det försvann redan nu från storyn. Det skulle annars ha varit en för enkel lösning. (Även om jag tvivlar på att de få doser som Sebastian och Thaddickus faktiskt lyckades sälja skulle ha gjort så stor skillnad att det faktiskt skulle märkas så tydligt som Rahl insinuerar).
En annan sak som jag inte riktigt kan begripa är varför Cara helt enkelt inte hoppar ned mot vattnet – det verkar ju inte vara stora fallet. Och hon får i sig betydligt mindre av skuggvattnet än de doser som tidigare i avsnittet såldes. Kanske var vattnet mer potential direkt från källan?
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iolausian-fields · 2 months
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ʜᴇʀᴄᴜʟᴇꜱ ᴛʜᴇ ʟᴇɢᴇɴᴅᴀʀʏ ᴊᴏᴜʀɴᴇʏꜱ s2e04 - Siege at Naxos
There’s so much in Iolaus’ apologetic grin.
Sorry I fucked up. I know you kind of told me to not sneak into the enemy camp, and then I did anyway. My bad.
Can you believe this shit? This is so humiliating.
Sorry for possibly dying on you again. I didn’t mean too.
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iolausian-fields · 4 months
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ʜᴇʀᴄᴜʟᴇꜱ ᴛʜᴇ ʟᴇɢᴇɴᴅᴀʀʏ ᴊᴏᴜʀɴᴇʏꜱ s3e13 - Encounter
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iolausian-fields · 1 year
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The gods are messing with Hercules' mind, making him unable to distinguish nightmares from reality.
Hercules: The Legendary Journeys s3e15 - Judgement Day
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Hercules and the Circle of Fire
The great HTLJ/XWP/YH (re)watch continues!
Okay, watched this for the first time a few days ago and so far it's easily my favourite of the first three movies. I really, genuinely, liked Hercules in this movie. I completely forgot it was Kevin Sorbo.
(And, not because he had a romantic plotline, I want to be clear. He just was kinder? More human? Idk. We'll get into it.)
So let's jump into it.
First of all this dream sequence.
Okay, I was confused by the white cloak on the mystery woman. I was like "she looks like she's wrapped in snow-covered saran wrap, what is happening?" and then we get this close up of her mouth, and I stg I was like "IS THAT CALLISTO??" 🤣😅 (Spoilers, it is definitely not Callisto.)
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The change of scenery was kinda cool, too (pardon the pun). I was really curious what he was doing up there, but then realized it was a dream sequence.
I'm not clear why Herc had this dream, though? Zeus will later comment about D being the type of woman a man dreams about or something, and Herc realizes that Zeus was aware of his dream... but I don't feel like Zeus gave him the dream, because D was asking him to save her, which I don't really think fit with Zeus's plans? IDK.
Does Hercules have premonition dreams now? Buffy had them occasionally, and I actually don't mind them as a narrative device if they're not overdone.
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Anyway, we shrug that off pretty quickly and see Hercules entering some kind of cave place with a dude and I was really excited for a moment thinking it might be Iolaus, but it was not. Instead we get a very Davey-Jones-esque fight with a guy whose heart is not in his body, and tbh I figured it out almost immediately and felt a bit bored waiting for Herc to figure it out. And then we got a very extra face-melting death. These effects were wild.
Herc saves a girl who is played by the actress who plays Cora Silver in The Return to Treasure Island (the film where Dean O'Gorman - who plays Young Iolaus - plays Jim Hawkins) and I had to pause the movie to figure out where I knew her from haha. During this scene they avoid being melted by acid that's spewing from the fountain he just collected water from.
Then Zeus shows up and tries to get Hercules to go to a mountain with him. Now, intitially I thought he meant Olympus and was really irritated that he didn't understand why Hercules wanted to try to get the potion to his friend that needed it. He claims Hercules cares more about his friend than his own dad - and I was like EXCUSE ME? Zeus, do you honestly feel you can bitch about that after being such a shit father??? But Hercules was so reasonable with his response, saying that that wasn't the case but he really needed to get that to his friend and I was like "wow Hercules has more restraint than me cuz I would not be so kind" haha. Then Zeus ominously mutters to himself that there might not be a next time, and I was like, wait is Zeus DYING? CAN Zeus die?? (I know there's some kind of plot with gods dying at the end of Xena so I assume there are circumstances that allow it.)
This turned out not to be what he meant at all. (Not me being disappointed). 😅 He meant cuz the world might end. The plot, it turns out, is that Hera plans to freeze the whole world and kill everyone. Zeus refuses to stop her???? (I am tearing out my hair at Zeus's uselessness over here!)
Anyway, let's talk about Cheiron!
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This movie has a bunch of familiar names in it, not attached to the characters I associate them with. The first is Cheiron, who, it turns out, is not Cheiron the centaur from Young Hercules, but someone completely unrelated - a satyr? idk - that Hercules has a history with that we don't really know? Cheiron is injured and it won't heal, and Hercules is doing his best to find a cure. I immediately questioned why Hercules seemed so guilty about it and actually wondered very early on if Herc had inflicted the wound, which eventually is revealed to be the case. It was an accident.
Apparently if an immortal gets wounded by another non-mortal, the wound never heals. Does this continue to be canon?
Anyway I liked this sense of responsibility from Herc and totally believed that he'd doggedly pursue a cure. I did question if he should let Cheiron drink the water from the acid fountain, but... it kind of worked until it didn't, so I guess he wasn't far off.
Cheiron complains that he'd like to be mortal, and I immediately go "oh, this man's gonna die". 😅
Also there was a baby named Kora, which is also the name of an important character on Young Hercules (who is not this baby, obviously).
The next fun character to be introduced is Deianeira - NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH "Deianeira of Troy" from literally the movie before this one. They are totally different characters. I mean, they're both outgoing women who love to talk, with dead fathers from whom they inherited their homelands, but the main difference is that Hercules actually shows some interest in this one.
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I found her a little rude at times, especially at first, but I must admit she won me over. She doesn't really feel like she fits into the world, though? Her whole personality, way of speaking, even the accent... it all feels a little too modern for me somehow? Very of the age it was produced and not of the age it was set in (not that any of it is historically accurate, but I hope you know what I mean).
Still, I really do like Deianeira by the end of the movie and was happy to see she didn't die, although I was really surprised that the movie ends with them making out! I guess Hercules has decided that it's not that "different with women" after all.
I'm curious to see what happens to her, because I have a feeling she doesn't last very long? I don't remember him having a permanent love interest so I guess we'll see, haha. I did avoid the show a lot so I could be very wrong there, too.
Back on the topic of Herc, I wonder if he isn't just kind of demisexual, something I can relate to myself, where he needs to have an emotional connection with someone before he feels any kind of sexual attraction. Who knows! He definitely likes Dei this way by the end, and I really believed their chemistry and liked how their bond slowly built over the movie as they got to know each other and learned how to work together effectively.
So back to the actual plot of the movie:
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Hera stole a torch from Prometheus, so now all the fire in the world is dying and everyone's gonna freeze to death. Hercules intends to get it back, and I have all the faith he will do so because he's the hero and I know there's a bunch of seasons of show after this so presumably the world doesn't end.
Prometheus was a cool character to see on screen, since he's a Titan, so he's this really big dude. (I definitely was reminded of the Zora king frozen in Zora's domain in Ocarina of Time, lmao.)
Per wikipedia: "Prometheus is best known for defying the gods by stealing fire from them and giving it to humanity in the form of technology, knowledge, and more generally, civilization." Reminds me a bit of the (Haida?) myth of the Raven stealing the sun.
Zeus:
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Zeus knows all about this plot and instead of helping any of the mortals who are begging the gods for help, Zeus is like "yeah, idk, I don't want to piss of Hera" and instead offers just Hercules (and his gf since he's feeling generous, I guess) a warm little cave to live in while everyone else dies. I was not impressed at all with this.
There's a whole thing with Zeus in this movie where he's upset that Hercules won't do as he's told, and we see Zeus has some insecurity about whether or not Hercules loves him, which is... humanizing? But also a little strange, I must admit. I felt I understood Zeus better in this movie and yet liked him less somehow? He was acting so selfishly throughout the film, even if it was out of love of his son - his lack of empathy for the rest of humanity and how he started using his powers to attack Hercules (even if it was to 'protect' him ultimately) really upset me.
I'm still really struggling with a core piece of his character motivation, which is that I really don't understand why he never interferes with Hera's attempts to hurt Hercules. Hera does awful things in a bid to harm Hercules or people who are seeking him out, constantly, and Zeus is just like "IDK Herc, maybe try sacrificing an animal to her?" when really Zeus's infidelity is what originally pissed off Hera. She's taking her anger at Zeus out on his son and LOADS of mortals, and Zeus just gets mad at Herc any time he complains about it, like defensively blaming Hercules for not sucking up more to Hera.
I guess gods really are not like us, haha.
Phaedra:
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I really wanted to like this character. I did sort of like her at first, and then I was pretty sure she was a villain, and then it turned out she was working for Zeus, and then... she really was just some orphan kid?
I actually really didn't like the whole bit where Hercules tried to hunt her down so that he could force her to live in a village and "go to school". There was an earlier scene where Herc played with Cheiron's kids, and I think it was to try to show this paternal side of Hercules, where he's "good with kids" or at least desires to take care of them in general/make sure they're safe. I think that's fine broadly speaking since he's a hero, and also in the context that him being good with kids makes him more attractive to Dei (she comments on it, so I assume that was the reason they made a child fill this narrative role and not, like, some random nymph or minor god, etc.).
But the fact that she really is just some kid doing as Zeus tells her really brings up some red flags in the scene where she tricks Hercules into thinking those strange women are Deianeira so that he'll start having sex with them. (He clues in when there's more than one of Dei, but Dei walks in and assumes Herc is a playboy... it's a whole thing, and really a weak narrative point that could have been cut, probably. We already got the impression Herc was interested in Dei that way so it wasn't like it was needed.)
But since when is Zeus a good dad, I guess. He's not looking out for Phaedra, he's using her.
The Circle of Fire:
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Okay, so they finally find the damn torch and it's inside a Circle of Fire, hence the title of the movie. It turns out that if a god/non-mortal goes inside the circle, they will lose their immortality.
Earlier in the movie there is some discussion of whether or not Hercules is immortal. That confused me a bit because one would think the wound he inflicted on Cheiron not healing would imply he's immortal?
Zeus is clearly worried about Hercules dying if he goes into the circle to get the torch, and he starts fighting Herc to stop him, but eventually Herc wins out and goes into the circle to get the torch.
This actually surprised me!
I totally thought he was going to make a compromise with Zeus and be like "Okay, then use your powers to go get Cheiron up here, and he can do it, since he wants to be mortal!" Two birds, one stone, so to speak. We know Zeus can poof people around because he's offered it several times by now in this very movie.
Instead, Hercules goes into the circle, presumably making him mortal, and then he brings some of the immortality-killing fire ALLLLLL THE WAYYYYY back to Cheiron's house to make a new circle there.
Before we get to that, small tangent - Zeus, seeing Hercules weakened by entering the circle, wants to go in and get him out, but knows it will make him mortal. And there's actually a point where he claims he's going to do it anyway, but then Hera intervenes to make a path for Zeus so it won't kill him. I'm like... really confused about their relationship, haha. You hate your husband's child because he's proof of the infidelity, to the point you want him dead, but you won't harm your husband who did the cheating? Talk about misplaced anger. I hate this plot so much JFC.
Anyway, as I said, Hercules then takes this magic fire with him to Cheiron.
He doesn't tell Cheiron what it will do.
This infuriated me???
Cheiron's clearly tried a lot of Herc's failed remedies, but not telling him that the fire will make him mortal seems like SUCH A DICK MOVE. What if Cheiron changed his mind about wanting to be mortal? It wasn't an informed consent, that's all I'm saying.
All's well that ends well, though. Cheiron was actually happy, and it healed him, too, I guess. It made him human, and there's this moment where his wife seems kinda put off/unsure about his new human body, and I was amused by that.
So we end the movie with everyone happy and mortal.
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Does Hercules remain mortal?
If we assume him going into the circle actually made him mortal, does he stay that way? I swear there's an episode set in modern times where he's still alive, but I didn't actually watch the whole episode so I could be wrong, haha.
Does he still have his demi-god strength? He must, right? He's totally strong on the show from what I remember. Just what about his godly-heritage is stripped by this fire? I don't know. Maybe this whole thing is forgotten about or handwaved later. I guess I'll find out.
My current predictions/thoughts:
Deianeira is going to die before the show starts or early on.
Herc is gonna get back his immortality, possibly for plot reasons.
Iolaus. Where is Iolaus? Is Anya going to die? I want Iolaus in the story again already, yeeeesh.
Herc said "What the hell" a lot in this movie, and like, not to nitpick, but... do they have "hell" in the strictest sense? IDK why I noticed this, but I did.
I like Hercules, the character. I liked him a lot in this movie. I liked that he was able to stand his ground on what was important without ever being unkind or unreasonable. Even when he was in conflict with people, he was compassionate, which is more what I would expect from him after watching some of Young Hercules. I didn't get that as much in the last couple movies.
All the characters felt a lot more human and well-rounded in this movie (compared to the last two); good job writers.
I actually liked this movie and would watch it again!
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