#pluraldeepdive

[pluraldeepdive]

I want to share this archive of Multiple Personality Gift -- a workbook for people who have or are questioning DID or any sort of trauma-formed system. I believe it was written back in 1991 by Jacklyn M. Pia, a satanic ritual abuse survivor and DID system.

Click here to read it.

It's pretty short but a wonderful read, nonetheless! 😊💕 Although the information about DID is somewhat outdated, there's so much love and positivity put into this workbook. Many of the tips they give about system management are things that I also learned in therapy for my DID. It can be very, very helpful. I hope you guys enjoy reading it!

(Disclaimer: This is an archiving blog that posts about plural history. The events and resources in this post are from the past. Please be mindful that language/views especially regarding mental disorders changes over time. Sources on this post may not reflect up-to-date info on dissociative disorders or plurality.)

#plural deep dive #plural history #did history #actuallydid #dissociative identity disorder #plurality #pluralgang #pluraldeepdive #sunflower posts

[sysmedsaresexist]

So I saw this post going around a bit ago saying that it was endo/nondisordered systems that spread support for osddid systems and pushed for more research of traumagenic systems and idk how true that is considering back then, systems were under the MPD dx before they changed the dx in the DSM. MPD was not the same thing as an endo system, but rather most likely either a traumagenic osddid system that didn’t have a proper understanding bc psychologists didn’t get it yet or a person w bpd schema modes that people misunderstood as an osddid system. (Not to say that systems with bpd don’t exist, we’re one such system, but the two are not the same thing). Idk. I feel like it’s in bad faith for endos to say “we’re responsible for why you have research at all btw”. I’m almost positive it’s just regular traumagenic systems who did not have the same knowledge and research we have now pushing for that/fighting for ourselves.

I'm not sure if I'm misreading or misunderstanding, feel free to correct me! There's a few points I'm going to touch on, though, just to cover all the bases. Settle in.

This is actually a really common myth I see from endos-- that MPD either included endogenic systems, and/or that MPD didn't require distress or trauma, and that the change to DID excluded all these systems by... requiring dysfunction? This chart is often used to showcase the differences between the disorders and how the disorders became "more restrictive", excluding systems from the diagnosis.

Which is a weird argument-- If MPD supposedly pathologized all plural experiences by not including distress or trauma in its criteria, wouldn't you hate MPD more than DID? And yet there's a HUGE community of systems that prefer the MPD diagnosis over DID for weird reasons.

However.

The truth of the matter is that MPD and DID are the exact same disorder, renamed. Even as MPD, it still required trauma and dysfunction for diagnosis (it even still talked about it being a childhood disorder), but even back then, no one read the whole goddamn entry for MPD. From the DSM III.

It's a very frustrating running theme.

The only thing that changed was the name, and it wasn't changed because they didn't believe in the diagnosis. All five were renamed to reflect a better understanding of the mechanisms behind the disorder and dissociation in general. I guess they didn't believe in any of these disorders.

What's really interesting is the changes that were made from the DSM III to the DSM III-TR (PDF). Here's a few choice changes for those on a phone.

(Most interesting to me are the changes to the amnesia criteria)

As you can see, the changes actually significantly expanded the criteria to include more presentations.

The DSM IV is where the name was changed to DID. In less than two years, the DSM IV TR would be released where all of the "cautionary" statements about overdiagnosis of DID would be removed, and we all know what the DSM 5 looks like.

SO.

What were endo/nondisordered systems doing around this time?

Why, being fucking douchebags of course.

The DSM IV was released in 1994, and in 1995, Astaeasweb was started. They were the first major group in this clusterfuck. They were the first to describe "non disordered" plurality, and soon after coined "natural multiplicity".

This was the start of the endogenic movement.

And all they did during that time was call for the boycott of MPD and DID.

"This DID boycott in particular held significance because it caused extreme harm to people with DID/OSDD. This boycott was intrinsically tied to both the anti-psych and natural multiplicity movements. Boycotters often held the belief that DID/OSDD weren’t real and should be removed from diagnostic manuals. Pages on natural and empowered multiplicity tended to go hand-and-hand with boycotting the DID diagnosis as well as boycotting psychiatry or psychology. As a result, this boycott impacted both society’s and psychology’s perceptions of DID/OSDD, and left lasting effects on the DID/OSDD community."

Pluraldeepdive, links and archives in post, check them out, they're an amazing resource.

It was around 1998 that the divide began between "empowered multiples" and "survivor multiples". This is where the real ableism started.

The 2000s introduced the "Healthy Multiplicity" movement. "The purpose of this movement was to establish that plural experiences were not pathological. Participants in this movement often insisted that childhood trauma or abuse could not cause plurality or multiplicity." [x]

This is where we start to see the rise of what is now the endo community, built off the boycott and definitions that were continually being twisted until they lost all meaning.

It went from, "MPD isn't a disorder," to "trauma doesn't define us," to "you don't need trauma at all".

And so it goes, on and on, until today.

A lot of these groups didn't call for more research and they twisted research that was already in use. In fact, in 2003, Pavillion, one of these groups, set their sights on the DID wiki. "The Pavilion organization used a system called action alerts to keep track of various DID-related events or articles. Pavilion members would then coordinately inject controversy and natural multiplicity theories into these spaces."

So in actuality, they were actively fighting and hindering research at the time.

I don't think it matters whether they were actually DID or not-- the point remains that people in these movements had nothing to do with the research we have now, and are in no way responsible for the scientific advancements we've seen.

It's in very bad faith for them to say that.

This has gotten long! I hope I covered everything. Feel free to reach out :)

#syscourse #debunk #anti endo #anti endogenic #pluraldeepdive

[circular-bircular]

do you have a favorite post or info from pluraldeepdive? it looks like lots of good info but i’m not sure where to start

I tend to look on the timeline and just go step by step. I visit the website when trying to refresh myself on the natural multiplicity movement. I also like their tumblr post about the history of the term system — I post that frequently.

#syscourse #asks #diamonds are a boy’s best friend #anon #pluraldeepdive

[multiplicity-positivity]

Info and Resources for Questioning Systems

Our old post with resources is out of date and doesn’t have that much information, so we’ve decided to put this together! Please let us know if we should make any corrections or if you have resource ideas you’d like us to add to this post.

NOTE: Before we get started, it’s so important to mention that every system should rule out trauma first before considering other origins. This is because complex dissociative disorders can present in covert ways, and function by hiding trauma from some alters. Even if you’re certain you’re not traumatized, please research and understand complex dissociative disorders before learning about other origin types. It’s possible to not remember or misunderstand trauma. Ruling it out first will save you a lot of difficulty and heartache in the future!

NOTE 2: As a system, we understand the terms “tulpa” and “tulpamancy” are cultural appropriation, and believe that as a community a different term for these systems should be selected. However, until that happens, we will continue to link handy resources for these sorts of systems.

Now, onto the resources!

This is not a complete list! If there’s any resource you’ve found useful and would like us to add, please get in touch!

Websites:

CDD (DID and OSDD-1) Specific:

Beauty after Bruises, and especially their article on myths and misconceptions about DID

Multiplied by One, a DID nonprofit that has a wealth of resources on dissociative disorders and CPTSD (and offering support for those in need!)

First Person Plural, another great nonprofit

ISSTD’s public resources

The Cleveland Clinic’s page on DID

Survivors’ Network (not to be confused with the Survivors’ Network Discord) page on DID

The National Alliance on Mental Illness’ info on dissociative disorders

DIS-SOS, a blog with tons of info on trauma, dissociation, and living with both

osdd.one, a site with information on complex dissociative disorders with a focus on OSDD-1

NAMI Michigan’s DID fact sheet

The Healthy Place’s blog on Dissociative Living

Non-CDD Specific:

What is Plurality/Multiplicity? by YoppVoice

More than One

Tulpa.io, Tulpanomicon, and Tulpa.info, all sites where tulpas, thoughtforms, willomates, and their creators can share their experiences

The Daemon Page

Daemonism 101

Manchester Metropolitan University’s Understanding Multiplicity

Plurality-Resources (traumagenic, not CDD, specific)

The Plurality Playbook, a resource for plurality in the workplace (for employees and managers)

Endogenic Hub

The Dissociative Initiative includes resources for both CDD systems and others who experience multiplicity

Soulbonding Info Carrd

Pluralpedia, a plurality wiki created and maintained by systems for systems

Podcasts:

The System Speak Podcast

The Bag System Podcast

Tumblr Blogs:

@pluraldeepdive

@system-society

@dear-systems

@plural-culture-is

@subsystems

@plurals-helping-plurals

YouTubers:

Pink Sugar Fairies

The Alexandrite System

FragmentDID

The Rings System

The CTAD Clinic

(psst! if you’re an endogenic/not-trauma formed system YouTuber, please let us know! we’d love to check out your videos and add your channel to this list!)

Other:

This Google Drive folder has 13 books on mental health, with a focus on dissociative disorders and trauma.

This Google Drive folder also has a bunch of great resources (keep in mind there are some repeats in both drives)

UTEP’s Mental Health Awareness Training infographic on dissociative disorders

Our own posts on Understanding DID, Establishing Contact with Headmates, Dissociative Amnesia, and Depersonalization vs. Derealization

Seeking help through therapy:

(specifically specialists in dissociative disorders)

Psychology Today’s search page for finding therapists who specialize in dissociative disorders

Carolyn Spring’s article, How to find a therapist for a dissociative disorder

The ISSTD’s Find a Therapist page

Websites we do NOT recommend can be found here! Note: some of the resources we’ve linked here have their own links to websites we don’t recommend. Please use your best judgement when visiting sites, and understand that we as a system DO NOT endorse the sites listed in the link above, even if we’ve included resources that link to those sites.

We hope y’all are able to find some of this useful! Again, please let us know if you have any resources you’d like us to add to this list. Thanks so much, everyone!

#multiplicity #pluralgang #plurality #actuallyplural #endogenic #traumagenic #plural resources #system resources #dissociative identity disorder #did osdd #osdd did #long post #questioning system #trauma mention #abuse mention

[sysboxes]

Whys non-traumagenic in the dni?/nm/genq im not sure if theyre a bad thing or not!

hi! there are varying opinions throughout syscourse but there’s a few reasons we don’t like non-traumagenic systems or supporters interacting with this blog. first and foremost is that many of the mods here have been harassed and actively harmed, through threats, doxxing, abuse, etc. by the endo community. even with our dni we still get some real shitty anons. a lot of the community also spreads misinformation, much of which has sent plenty of people back in recovery, and a fair number take part in cultural appropriation. furthermore, our experiences as CDD systems are incredibly different from non-traumagenics. regardless of whether or not we believe they exist, most of our experiences of DID and alters are intrinsically connected to having trauma and other symptoms such as dissociation and amnesia that we don’t really have much of anything in common.

u can do research and investigation into things (@pluraldeepdive has some good resources on the history of syscourse) and come to ur own conclusions; we don’t wanna tell u what to believe. we’re not really here to participate in syscourse; there are just certain communities we’d really rather not interact with.

#not a userbox #mod wonder ❄️ #endos dni

[debunkingsyscourse]

Claim: Endogenic systems steal medical language.

Validity: Dubious.

Sources of claim: [Post 1][Post 2][Post 3][Post 4]

Discussion: To discuss this claim, we need to examine the history of the endogenic community. Firstly, it must be acknowledged that the endogenic community as it currently exists could not have even existed before 2014, as this is the time when the Lunastus Collective (or, at the time, trashcan-collective) coined the term endogenic to describe any system who did not form from trauma; Lunastus also coined traumagenic for trauma based systems. These terms were coined with intention of replacing current terms, such as Natural Multiple. Therefore, before Lunastus entered the scene, these systems were already using the same terminology as systems with complex dissociative disorders (CDDs) and other traumagenic forms of plurality.

Before that time, the endogenic community was folded into the rest of the system community, and was highly medicalized. This created tension for many systems who did not fit the medical view of plurality, who then went on to form the Natural / Healthy Multiplicity Movement (henceforth shown as NMM). While this movement had its own number of flaws, the topic discussed here is strictly the usage of medical language in endogenic spaces. I would examine the timeline of plural history provided at this link by PluralDeepDive, which contains more sources than I could provide here in a timely manner.

The fact is, the history is muddy, which brings me to the second point. Since endogenic systems were seen as part of the DID community, they didn’t steal anything; endogenic systems are just using the same language they have always used. Furthermore, the community then began to split further by using alternative terms, such as plural or collective, in an effort to shift away from medicalized terminology. If anything, endogenic communities should be credited with attempting to shift further away from medical language.

With other medical terms, the same idea stands. Alter was a term from CDD spaces that endogenic systems kept when the fracture in the community formed, and alternatives were suggested, such as headmates. Splitting has shifted to ‘formed.’ Introject became fictive or factive, or any number of other coined terms*. Every single medical term has a basis in the System community, and endogenic systems have a basis there too -- and despite that, this problem isn't all that major, as endogenic systems have tried shifting their language. Even just the fact that Pluralpedia exists (even with its many flaws) is a sign that endogenic plurals have attempted to shift away from medicalized language.

Conclusion: Based on this, it is my belief that endogenic systems have, by and large, not stolen or appropriated language from CDD systems. While there are individuals from the NMM who purposefully used language from CDD spaces in an attempt to demedicalize the terminology, these systems had already been using this terminology long before that time. The modern endogenic community is simply using the language it’s always used, and is even shifting further and further away from medicalized language as it is.

Notes:

* The terms for fictive and factive came from outside the endogenic community themselves, instead originating from kin spaces. However, my knowledge of this topic is incredibly limited, as as I find kin spaces triggering for my psychosis, I will be avoiding research on this topic. If anyone would like to add their own research, it would be appreciated.

Other Sources to Read:

Pluraldeepdive. (2022, April 30). System. PluralDeepDive. [Link] This source discusses the term ‘system’ and how it’s been used by system communities. It contains sources on the origins of the term, as well as evidence of its usage through the years.

SysmedsareSexist. (2024, May 10). [Link] This is an ask answered by Mod Dude of SysmedsareSexist, a user who has done extensive debunking and research into DID misinformation. This post is about this same topic and offers the perspective of an older system who lived through these shifts in community. While there are no sources provided here, it's valuable to see this perspective.

Lunastusco. (2019). Origin of Endogenic System and Traumagenic System Terminology. Power to the Plurals. [Link] This is a discussion with Lunastusco about the origins of the terms endogenic and traumagenic in context of plurality. They wrote this post for PttP in an effort to explain what these labels mean. This is vital knowledge for understanding the history of endogenic systems.

More may be added as I see fit. Everyone can please feel free to add to this post as needed!

#syscourse #debunking

[sophieinwonderland]

Hate Wins

Saw this on @pluralityresearch101.

So... what were these posts that were so terrible and doing more harm than good, exactly?

Oh, right. They said that the existence of a marginalized community isn't harmful.

If you look at the @pluraldeepdive, you will absolutely see evidence of some groups being ableists. Do you know what else you will see? Fakeclaiming and harassment against endogenic and non-disordered systems from the very beginning.

Endogenic systems have never not been harassed for existing by medicalists within the community.

And yet, it would be absolutely vile to suggest that traumagenic systems are harming endogenic systems just by existing. It would be wrong, both morally and factually.

The only harmful thing about the original post is that it was stated as an unpopular opinion, when it should have been stated as a fact.

This shouldn't need to be stated, but...

No neurodivergents are harmful for existing!

Hate groups on the other hand... hate groups are harmful for existing...

#syscourse #plural #plurality #multiplicity #actually plural #system #endogenic #plural system #systems #endogenic system #endo safe #plural community #neurodivergent #actually neurodiverse #neurodiversity #neurodivergence #actually a system #actuallyplural #sanism #hate groups #hate group

[subsystems]

how come y'all took down your blog that detailed the long history of endogenic systems actively despising DID/OSDD systems? and how come you support endogenic systems now...? what happened to y'all?

The research and info that was in the essay is still available. Check @pluraldeepdive. I took down the original essay because I wasn't happy with how often people used it to attack endogenics. I don't like how I wrote it and still intend to rewrite a similar essay someday.

Also, I don't know where you've been but I've been supportive of endogenics for years now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don't give a flying fuck about other people's personal beliefs on their own brain experiences and their labels of choice. It's none of my business.

I still have issues with the endogenic community and especially the online history of it but the same goes for the CDD community. Doesn't mean I don't support CDD systems.

If that bothers you then just block me and move along.

#sunflower answers #syscourse tw

[dissociativediscourse]

do you mind if i ask what "plural" even is? i do not want to associate with the label but consider myself both "multiple sharing a body/brain" and "parts of a whole", and wondering exactly how plural is different/why its so popular, aside from the community that uses it.

Anon, of course you can ask! You’re going to get a different answer from whoever you ask, but I personally really like this graphic.

And also, the entire @/pluraldeepdive account is likely going to be very helpful for you.

I’m going to let you parse these resources (especially PDD) and let you discover a lot of this yourself (i think that’s important so that you can have the actual knowledge for yourself and not just parrot it), but at its base, it’s something that’s more spiritual/metaphysical/“healthy” (their words, not mine)/abstract/a million other things than CDDs (complex dissociative disorders), which are just plain ol’ trauma disorders.

#syscourse #asks #plurality

[informationsorter]

Are there any sources as to why non-humans split off?

Hi Anon, thanks for the ask. I'm afraid I'm sick with the dreaded Spicy Flu right now, unsure when I'll be better and able to look into your request. So I'm going to ask anyone who sees this to respond. @pluraldeepdive @memoriesofthecircularroom

#did #osdd #anon ask #dissociative identity disorder #actuallydid #actuallyosdd #nonhuman alter

[pluraldeepdive]

Some adorable soulbonding buttons I found archived in 2003 from this (now deleted) soulbonding webpage.

(Disclaimer: This is an archiving blog that posts about plural history. Links and images in this post are from the past, saved by the wayback machine. Please be mindful that not all soulbonders consider themselves plural or consider their soulbonding to be plurality.)

#plural deep dive #plurality #soulbond #soulbonding #soulbonding history #plural history #pluraldeepdive #sunflower posts

[sysmedsaresexist]

SAS tracking the tulpa

So here’s some interesting things I just learned.

This is a very basic overview, no, it’s not going to cover all the nuance, it’s just something interesting that puts a twist on the whole tulpa thing. Please see my statement at the end.

The work of Helena Blavatsky (HB), a Russian mystic, influenced the work of Alexandra David-Néel (ADN), the person who basically brought tulpamancy to the public eye in a real way

HB claimed to have travelled to Tibet, which was closed to foreigners, and the movement of women was restricted during this period (ie. she probably didn’t actually go and her books are fiction-- OH, and she wanted to lead an expedition into Peru to find the tunnels to hollow earth). As well, ADN is actually credited as being the first woman to visit Tibet, not HB before her. [x]

BUT, here’s a fun twist.

It’s possible that ADN never went to Tibet, either (that’s a link, click it)

So what does that mean for this “cultural exchange” if it was never actually exchanged?

But let’s assume she did go, and she did sneak into Tibet posing as a beggar, and continue on with the 💲 💲 💲 money 💲 💲 💲

The work of HB first brought mysticism and eastern religions to the West, and had already resulted in a financial boom around the topic of eastern religion and mysticism. Thus, when ADN started publishing her (largely fictionalized and dramatized) books around the same time, she basically made all of the money. That link is actually an extremely interesting read. Especially the part where she’s quoted as saying:

Anticlericalism is out of fashion: it is one result of the war. When men are scared they turn to the gods, to the supernatural, like children that hang to their mother’s skirts. A breeze of spirituality blows over the world alongside with the blast of the cannonballs that rip through the air. Vulgar religiosity will turn into longing for philosophy in the larger-scale minds. I have some idea that my books on Vedanta and Tibetan mysticism are likely to meet the needs of many readers after the storm. 

So what does it mean for the “cultural exchange” if most of her work is largely considered fiction, rather than travel or auto-biographical?

Let’s talk about tulpas, though.

Anyone who has read “Tracking the Tulpa” will recognize some of the following names, but there was one point in that article that caught me off guard. The statement that ADN was the first to use tulpa.

ADN probably actually pulled inspiration from the Tibetan Book of the Dead (called tulpai-ku within, she wrote it more as she would have pronounced it) mostly translated by Dawa Samdup (DS) in 1927, who had worked with and been very close with ADN. Her use of tulpa was in 1929. [x] (I died reading that paper)

DS died in 1922, though, and Walter Evan-Wents, who had a terrible grasp on the language, finished off the book with his own interpretations and translations.

Point is, she had likely been aware of the concept prior to her book and the supposed events contained within it.

Which brings us back to her fiction writing and making those big dollars to entertain those damn, post war, depressed white people.

Again, this is by no means meant to be a history lesson, you all can go and do your own research. I am largely unfamiliar with Buddhism and Tibet, but I was reading about HB and came across her connection to ADN. While I cannot and will not discuss any topics of Buddhism, Tibet and even tulpas, I can talk about a bunch of old white ladies making money off mysticism, because I (by all technicalities) am part of that group, and bitches be wild.

#syscourse #pluraldeepdive?? #tulpa #tulpamancy #resources #story time

[circular-bircular]

What a great time to remind everyone that pluraldeepdive exists and that pluraldeepdive wrote an entire deep dive about the term “System” and how it’s a community term, and all of the history of that term ✨ You should check it out! They have a tumblr and their own website.

#syscourse #beauty and poison go hand in hand

[multiplicity-positivity]

Plural Tumblr Survey List

This is a list of non-professional surveys that have been conducted by folks here on tumblr! We wanted to put this together to help catalogue and preserve the results.

If you know a survey you’d like us to include, please feel free send us a link to the post! We’re not including Tumblr polls in this list due to the sheer amount of them of them out there.

OPEN

pluraldeepdive’s Plural/System Experiences Survey

pluralityresearch’s Plurality Research Survey

system-research’s Revised Exomemory Survey

CLOSED, viewable results

kipandkandicore’s Syscourse Survey

dragonfly-system’s Study on the Origins of Endogenic Systems

many-but-one’s System Partner Boundaries Survey

scaryterror-mogai’s Patterns in Being Formed in a System

our own survey on neurodivergence in nontraumagenic systems

polyphonic-brains’ Origins of Plurality and Levels of Dissociation Study

CLOSED, awaiting viewable results

deertism’s Plurality & Personality Disorders Survey

night-wyld-system’s Plurality, System, and DID/OSDD Experiences

polyphonic-brains’ Differences in the Internal Experiences in Traumagenic and Endogenic Plurals

This post will be a constant work in progress as we add new surveys we find. Please feel welcome to send us surveys you don’t see represented here - thanks so much!

#multiplicity #pluralgang #plurality #actuallyplural #traumagenic #endogenic #osddid #plural survey #system survey

[memoriesofthecircularroom]

re: terms for endos

not disagreeing that there should be a separation of terms, but i couldve sworn some of the terms i see people claiming are for did/osdd systems were made by endos first? totally willing to believe im wrong about this but i though "headmate" was made by endogenic plurals during an earlier push for separate terms as an alternative to alter? as opposed to what at least one person is claiming in response to the post you rbed, and ik ive seen other people claim the same thing

I could've sworn the same. Perhaps at some point, someone can make a timeline of the terminology used by systems and plurals alike, and delineate the origins. PluralDeepDive did so with the term "system."

In my own experiences. I've always heard that headmate is an endogenic term.

#syscourse #endos

[dissociative-archives]

Archiving all things related to trauma, dissociation, and complex dissociative disorders (CDDs)!

While this blog has a particular focus on CDDs, pretty much anything related to trauma and dissociation will be archived here, though you'll likely mostly see stuff pertaining to CDDs on this blog. Still, do stick around if you're at all interested!

If you have anything you want to share with me, feel free to! I'll take asks and submissions, and I'm also totally open to being tagged in posts, too! There's not really any "rules", I'll pretty much archive anything. Art, poetry, books, movies, TV shows, comics, articles, YouTube videos, and more. The information doesn't have to be accurate, it just has to be related to trauma/dissociation/CDDs.

(I am aware that pluraldeepdive exists, but this blog is focused specifically on trauma/dissociation/CDDs, and I am not trying to be in competition with them or anything, I'll actually frequently reblog their posts, if it's relevant enough. I don't want to start some feud!!! I have different plans/ideas for this blog!)

(DISCLAIMER: This blog serves to archive things related to trauma, dissociation, and complex dissociative disorders (CDDs), such as DID, Partial DID, and some people with OSDD or UDD. Keep in mind that some of the things on this blog may be outdated and inaccurate to the current and modern understandings of trauma, dissociation, and CDDs!)

I am Ethan; I'm 23 and a polyfragmented DID system. I'm also autistic and our main blog is @ethanthealien. We also have @coexistentialism for our own personal CDD/trauma stuff and @cdd-art-share, a place for people with CDDs to share their artwork related to their CDD experiences!

#dissociative-archives