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the-nysh · 1 year

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Rewatching Trigun's 98anime (subs this time, being used to the eng dub) since I was curious to note the characters' shifting pronoun usage.

For reference, Stampede Vash always uses the softer, more humble, modest, boyish 'boku' - as expected (like Trimax Vash), even after his glow up in ep12, he still regards himself the same way. While Knives (Nai) exclusively uses the harder, more assertive, masculine 'ore'...ever since he was a little baby, which immediately differentiates them apart, but is...extremely (lmao) edgy of him.

But in the 98anime? Oh my god, it's all flipped around and completely different! Which quite interestingly reveals a lot of contextual nuances to many characters, and quite frankly rewatching in Japanese trying to catch all these things only thoroughly kicked my ass throwing in so many difficult-to-understand, unexpected curveballs; I'm both shook and humbled by what I've heard!

Because 98 Knives refers to himself as 'boku' O____O;; even during his most 'villainous' lines yelling at Vash too. Him having that casual but 'polite' poised dissonance in his voice comes off extremely unnerving;;; when he speaks of horrible things thru such an 'innocent' self-perception like that. (Even Legato uses 'boku' like him! Same in Stampede.) Damn I'm disturbed. He and Vash notably both used 'boku' when they were kids, but Knives in particular never really stopped saying that from their childhoods, so that says a lot about him. (His "did you just shoot me [boku]!?" comes off very uncannily childlike. No wonder Vash freaked out in guilt.)

But 98 Vash? Whoa, he requires a whole damn essay flips around ALL the time, interchangeably using BOTH! :O Often switching pronouns between 'ore' & 'boku' within the same episode, or even as quickly as every other sentence, even towards the same person. Depending on the immediate context/topic of what he's saying and the emphasis on how he's saying it. Via all his posturing, which 'persona' he switches into, his familiarity/humbleness/honesty/trust--even hostility towards certain people, and his mood's silly vs seriousness levels. Often reflective of how determined/confrontational/casual he is vs being walled off (masking) to openly repentant, lost or distressed too - but not always! It's Extremely inconsistent fascinating but confusing!!! Because there's no....fixed 'rules' to his usage. For ex he'll often use 'ore' casually within his own internal monologues to his more bombastic public self-introductions, or even when he's at his most serious in private moments about grave matters, like settling his past during his scar scene with Meryl. Even Eriks!Vash still uses 'ore' when confessing his guilt to Wolfwood about the Fifth Moon! So there feels to be a general preference for using 'ore' when he (internally and externally, both in casual and serious contexts) needs to show his 'determination' - aka being the man (the ideal 'Vash'?) he wants to become.

But then he'll flip around using 'boku' for some of his most exasperatingly fake ✨playful✨ bits when he's kidding and messing around in mock courtesy (bonus: he even uses 'watashi' as a joke for his ridiculously long 'formal' name introduction to Wolfwood).....AND 'boku' will be used for his most sincere humble (polite) conversations back with family members he knows at Home, and when he connects back to his childhood with Rem in his dreams. The Diablo ep is a good example: he uses 'ore' throughout the ep until he reverts to 'boku' after speaking to Rem deciding not to kill, and that humbling shift, like to that of a lost younger boy, makes so much sense. The shift happens again when Eriks!Vash thinks about Rem feeling just as lost: "what should I [boku] do?" And after the tragic incident at Home when he's depressed and masking himself behind his glasses, while quietly reflecting to Wolfwood with a reproachful, "Everyone who touches me [boku] dies." ...Before immediately changing back to 'ore' in the next sentence firming his resolve to face Knives.

But in general it really depends and you have to listen hard (pay close attention) to hear how much contextual teasing, sincerity, irony, genuine respect, or...humbling self-reproach and self-depreciation he uses. Indicative towards how much (or how poorly) he internally regards himself and how he externally presents himself to others, because it changes. All the time. His personal pronouns aren't fixed! ...Basically, I'm just as confused as Meryl (and it really makes narrative sense why she's so confused by him), not knowing which 'persona' is the real him! x'D

...Oh but a really good moment, in ep24 when Meryl pleads at him to be honest with her for once about all the tragedies, he uses 'boku' explaining everything to her about Knives. That's....really good. :O Like umm...him using 'ore' before with her (in the scar scene) kind of erected a subtle barrier when he refused to elaborate further, but using 'boku' so sincerely for her request.....like it..extends her the same humble level of courtesy/trust he'd use towards the 'family' he loves back at Home (+Rem)....but it's so loaded, cause he's being honest but still...distant telling her why he's better off alone. :')) Man...(the aaangst) Oooooh, but then ep25 is very telling too, cause he's mentally lost for the whole ep, always using 'boku' so anguished and self-deprecatingly....until Meryl saves him and he gives her his softest genuine 'boku' yet, after he recovers back to himself donning the red coat again, thanking and assuring her he'll be alright. :'D (Hooray~) Before internally switching back to 'ore' on his final quest setting out alone for Knives. Ep26: he still keeps that distinct assertive 'ore' in front of Knives "I [ore] will survive!" and 'boku' for Rem: "I [boku] will continue to believe in you, but will look to my own [jibun] words for guidance." :')) (Bonus: 'jibun' is added when he philosophically thinks in terms of 'oneself'/'myself' from now on.)

Bonus nuance: while younger Vash may have dependently followed Knives' lead around--back when they both used 'boku' together, older (current) Vash--using 'ore' with him, feels like he's grown to assume the role as the more independent, responsible older brother now, when he finally understands how to put Rem's last words to 'take care of Knives' into practice. :'))

So tl;dr: Vash tends to have a casual leaning preference for using 'ore' in most situations both private and public, but especially for whenever he asserts his determination involving Knives with a confrontational edge. 'Boku' is used exclusively (politely, with genuine deference & care) towards extended family members he loves (like Rem, Brad, Doc, and eventually.....Meryl; using the softest 'boku' towards her I've ever heard. ;.;) And for whenever he humbles himself in distress, feeling lost in turmoil or self-reproach. But it's not set in stone! Since both pronouns can be used sincerely or ironically in jest, for whenever he's feeling silly or playing a bit (donning a mask), easily switching depending on presentation or context too. 98 Vash simply does what he wants! While Meryl screams in confused exasperation!

As for 98 Meryl, she often uses the book-standard, more formal/professional 'watashi' when introducing herself (Stampede Meryl too), and her speech patterns are typically very polite and pleasant to listen to (with many lovely 'desu-wa' sentence finishers.) ...Until she changes to the informal, more feminine 'atashi.' Ex: when screaming at Milly to let her go (to Vash) as the city blew up during the Fifth Moon incident. The raw sincerity in her voice for that change is so...🥺 of her. Note, cause most other girls - from Rem, Milly, younger kids like Lina, to older (but youthful) grandma characters all informally use 'atashi.' So for Meryl to drop her usual formalities when her honest feelings come out ("I [atashi] need to go there!" - to the epicenter where Vash is) means a lot. :')) ...Ah! Cause she slips to 'atashi' again in ep25, in front of Vash (while he uses 'boku' at his most mentally lost and openly wounded state) at his bedside. o///o Oh my... Using 'atashi' again while crying to Milly in regret that she couldn't confess anything yet to Vash on his sendoff. So yes, Meryl's feminine 'atashi' side shows whenever she expresses her honest feelings. :'3

Now 98 Wolfwood is a special case, cause he speaks primarily in Kansai dialect, which is extremely hard for me to understand what he's saying in modified/shortened slang all the time. (Compared to say, Meryl who speaks very cleanly and polite.) I've heard him use 'ore' when offering kids food, the more rural/casual form 'oira' when confessing his turmoil to Milly at his most vulnerable, 'uchi' when talking about 'our orphanage,' 'washi' (the 'old man' form of watashi) when speaking in more formal/aged terms of 'God', to the slang form 'wai' (he casually prefers this one a lot, and Stampede Wolfwood uses 'wai' too, esp when introducing himself to new people, for most of the few eps he's even in, and it makes him sound like...way older than he actually is?) to even 'jibun' when talking about himself with distance in flashbacks. The impression he gives off is like that of someone who's come from a rural/street kid (orphan) background...but who speaks like a chill elder now?? who's aged far too soon for his years. That's my best interpretation of what's happening. (His slang 'wai' even slurs to sound like 'oira,' almost like 'wai-ra' sometimes; gah it's really hard for me to discern, I'm sorry.) Bonus: he teasingly calls Milly 'my honey' in english, while she playfully answers him back with the pronounced 'a-na-ta' (dear), so they def have an inside thing going on. Bottom line, he's very complicated *bangs head on desk* and his accent is too unfamiliar/beyond my meager course level to fully grasp! :'D

To sum up (to the best of my hearing comprehension):

Stampede Vash: always boku, modest and unassuming towards everyone 98 Vash: BOTH ore & boku; not fixed. Casual preference for ore vs more humble courtesy using boku, but it's extremely context/mood/persona dependent, since he can mask & switch for jokes. Has a serious confrontational/determined edge using ore vs Knives--as if Vash becomes the older brother here, but always reserves the softer boku towards Rem and the found family he loves Stampede Knives: always ore, ever since he was a baby; so much edge 98 Knives: boku, coming off unnervingly childlike vs Vash's ore Meryl (both): watashi, but changes to atashi (98) when her honest feelings towards Vash show Wolfwood (both, Kansai dialect): primarily wai, but can use many other forms Legato (both): boku Roberto: ore Milly: atashi, but can mask using watashi when she's not fine Rem: atashi (98) & watashi (Stampede) Stampede Luida: watashi, but atashi when casual with teen Vash Brad (both): ore Dr. Conrad: watashi Stampede Elendira: watashi Stampede Zazie: boku

Now besides the animes, since Trimax is a whole other overwhelming complicated beast, and since I don't have access to check (nor would I even be able to easily read/understand) the Japanese raws, I'd be VERY interested in someone's investigation and breakdown into the manga's pronouns, especially for Trimax Vash, since I've heard that beyond 'boku,' he shifts and evolves throughout his journey too, possibly ending on a very soft wizened, matured 'watashi' that I'd love to hear more!

#trigun #commentary #meta #long text post #me thinking this would be a fun and interesting rewatch activity #*gets Immediately Pulverized by unexpected curveballs and difficulty*#ohhhhhhh my college courses in japanese aren't strong enough for this #that i know i could not survive trimax's raws; i'd be destroyed instantly

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orcelito · 11 months

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I know trigun is the Religious Symbolism Anime but smth u must understand is that i love it in the most sacrilegious way possible. Yes religious themes r cool to study etc etc etc but I'm over here rocking out to the objective sacrilegion that is having our Jesus figure be a hyperactive punk that loves donuts and is also not so subtly also an angel & his slutty priest boyfriend who is also an assassin and has a giant cross machine gun and Also constantly has his tits out. Also they're trans.

Like. This is not a Christian anime to Me, even with the symbolism and themes lol

#speculation nation #ykno what sure ill tag it #trigun #i mean like if it wasnt obvious by the Everything about it ykno #i enjoy the deconstruction of religion too. the way wolfwood's league of assassins poses as a church #and everything that means in a social commentary sense #but ultimately. yes this anime has a lot of christian themes to it. but it is very much not christian. To Me.#hope this makes sense hfkdhfjd

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revenantghost · 1 year

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YEET, BITCH

#GET YOTED ON #Trigun #Trigun Stampede #Tristamp #Tristamp Spoilers #LISTEN I'M HAVING TO MANY EMOTIONS FOR SMART COMMENTARY

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feekins · 6 months

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imo one major point of tristamp (and trimax) is that no single person can be considered 100% "good" or 100% "evil" - we are EXPLICITLY shown that it's a million times more complicated than that. to exist is to be messy. everyone has thoughts and emotions and varying motivations and different things that drive them, and no one is totally right or totally wrong. in a world that very much wasn't made for humanity, all anyone can do is the best they can with what they have. nothing is perfect - in fact, nothing CAN or SHOULD be perfect bc "perfect" is subjective. there is no universal perfection. in other words, it IS NOT and CANNOT BE black-and-white - and acting like it is is what keeps fucking everyone up on Noman's Land.

#trigun stampede #tristamp #trigun maximum #trimax #text postan 2k23 #there's more to it than that but nowadays I don't fking trust ppl not to jump down my throat for DARING to think different from them lmao #don't fking @ me #I'm just enjoying the commentary on humanity #humans are fascinating and frustrating and awful and wonderful

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rennyrose · 1 year

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Razzle

#i see a funny block of text I see some good additional commentary #Razlo’s a cat kinda guy and that is based on approximately Ø cannon #trigun #trigun maximum #razlo the tri punisher of death #trigun manga #drawing #razlo the trip of death #sketch #digital art

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aubieinsanity · 1 year

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#trigunbookclub | Vol 1 | Ch 00-01

Click here for an archive of all my #trigunbookclub posts

Can I just say how much I love Nightow's silly cover redraws on the inside cover of each volume? Also, tickles me greatly how obsessed with action figures he was/is. iirc it comes up multiple times in his little artist's notes, and come on, look at the Stampede blu-ray covers:

ANYWAY, without further ado, #trigunbookclub commentary below the cut!

[Art & Story by Yasuhiro Nightow. Translation by Trigun Ultimate Overhaul.] [Disclaimer: I have consumed much meta content & had many conversations about Trigun on Tumblr and Discord since earlier in 2023. Lots of my commentary will be a result of cooperative analysis, so thank you to all who share their thoughts!] [Warning: While I will mostly avoid manga spoilers, some of my commentary will involve discussion of future topics. I am also assuming readers have seen the 98 anime and/or Trigun Stampede and are at least somewhat familiar with some of the major story beats.]

I've commented on this before, but the parallel between the titles of the manga opening and Stampede s1 ending makes me feral:

Also, what is going through this poor man's head right now? Gazing out at this destruction...trying to piece it all together

Onto chapter 1!

The absurd contradictions on Vash's wanted poster crack me up. It's all, ~VASH IS A BIG BAD KILLER!!!!~ then says "Note: staunch pacifist." I also like to imagine that Vash 100% posed for this photo--probably even knew it was being used for a wanted poster. Got booked for something silly, posed for the photo, then skedaddled out of jail all crazy-lizard-style.

Vash's first proper panel!!! He's so cute, LOOK AT HIM!!! *shoves Him in your face*

For those unfamiliar with the history of the manga: the original 'Trigun' ran for about 2 years in a shonen magazine that eventually ceased publication. It was picked back up as 'Trigun Maximum' in a seinen magazine later that year. Hence, the title change and the mood shift. I think Nightow agreed to the 98 anime adaptation either toward the end of Trigun publication or maybe even afterward, not knowing if the manga series would ever continue on.

As a result, Vash of the early manga and 98 anime Vash feel very much the same. Ah, yes, the 3 breeds of Vash: 1) Early manga/98 anime/BLR; 2) Trimax; 3) Stampede.

He's just oh so silly and cute. I luff him. 💖

He also has one hell of a broom head:

WHEN DID HE GRAB THE KID'S TOY GUN??!! He's so insane (affectionate) Just being the most absurd sassy bitch while low-key pulling off insane stunts

Did I mention he's an absurd sassy bitch

Oh oh oh -- wait, here's one of my FAVORITE panels in all of the manga (which also made it into the 98 anime!):

It is the perfect combination of his over-the-top drama, his habit of using absurdity and humor as a disarming and de-escalation technique, AND his honest-to-goodness true wish.

Sorry, can't help myself; gotta draw comparisons between manga, 98, & Stampede

INFLATION

Anyway...

Here he is. Our Vash.

Any version of Vash, at any time, abhors violence. He can't bear the thought of taking a life. He will do everything in his power, right down to brutal self-sacrifice, to avoid killing.

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

We have another very important introduction this chapter:

THE GIIIIRRRLLLSSSS~~~~~ *airhorns*

SLAAAAAYYYYY

GOD, Milly is massive (affectionate). And Meryl, especially by comparison, is tiny, but carries herself like a giant. She reminds me of a little toy dog who weighs less than 10 lbs but barks, growls, and postures like she's a 200 lb mastiff. (Except she absolutely has the guns to back it up. Pun intended.)

Also, Milly's enormous gun falling out of her jacket(??) absolutely sends me. I am really really hoping for this energy in Stampede.

Also, Meryl's face, oh my god:

You tell 'em, Milly.

Meanwhile...poor Vash....

(one last parallel)

#trigunbookclub #trigun #trimax #manga #trigun 98 #trigun stampede #commentary #oh dear god i am so behind on the bookclub already

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lailanihan · 1 year

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TRIGUN STAMPEDE IM SORRY I EVER DOUBTED U

#trigun stampede #trigun #LAST EP WAS A HARD ONE TO SIT THRU BUT THIS WAS BETTER THAN I WAS EXPECTING #i'm so glad just #AUGH #i still have some commentary on it but like. ultimately this is great #AND VASH'S HAIR HE GOT HIS HAIR BACK #AAAUAAUAUUAUAUAUAUUA #i swear i'll make more art i'm so fucking burnt out rn

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sutekiniichan · 10 months

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Trigun Stampede draws its lore and story direction mainly from Trimax. But there's a pretty significant plot thread that it shares specifically with the 1998 anime that wasn't the case in Trimax. Apart from the peripheral plot elements that differ, many of the major beats of the situation are almost identical between the two anime. In both 1998 and Tristamp, several years after The Big Fall (15 years in 1998, 5 years in Tristamp), Knives gives Vash a gun and tries to coerce him into using it to kill humans

Vash hesitates, prompting Knives to mock Vash as incapable of doing anything on his own. Knives then walks off intending to kill someone as a demonstration.

Vash tries to stop Knives, and a scuffle between the brothers ensues.

Ultimately, Vash takes the gun and, rejecting what Knives wants him to do, points it at Knives instead.

And in both 1998 and Tristamp, Vash would go on for over a century carrying the gun that Knives 'gifted' him, while refusing to use it to kill.

I will note that Trimax does have a moment where Vash points a gun at Knives that symbolizes, in Knives’s eyes, Vash choosing humanity over him (this is universal in Trigun), and like in Tristamp, the moment closely coincides with Knives cutting off Vash’s arm, but it does not have the same level of overlap as the above. Vash’s gun in Trimax does not carry the same historical weight.

#trigun 1998 #trigun stampede #Vash the Stampede #millions knives #trigun #Tristamp #Trigun comparisons #Trigun commentary #I love that Tristamp draws from everything that came before it #I’m curious what else they might choose to draw from 1998

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alena-reblobs · 9 months

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Trigun Bookclub Trimax Vol10 Part 4

Vol01: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Vol02: Part 1 | Part 2

God why is this volume so long and full of so many epic pictures

Commentary for chapter 6 and 7 of Vol10, will do the last one in another post!

While I'm doing this, reading each chapter and after that, doing my commentary, I notice the effect of the volume lessening...damn! I should read it in one go first and THEN write my thougths but I'm afraid I'll forget what I want to say. Vol9 and Vol10 are in a way really meant to be read in one go for the full effect.

Chapter 6:

Yes! Wolfwood trying to end this fight not with his weapon, but with his bare hands is so important! He's not fighting to kill, he's not EoM's puppet, he's trying to bring back a friend...I can't say why but also the fact that this obviously pains Razlo more than bullets also feels right. That's how it should be. And then...there's Vash.

Oh god and then there's Vash.

This is...one of the most cruel images of Vash yet. To me it is THE most emotional in the whole series. Pure desperation. Sadness for things lost. Vash allowing himself to break down while we only hear the punches of Wolfwood beating down on Razlo. Looking at this image makes me sad. Damn it Nightow for making Vash have to grief before they even had the chance to start their future together.

But again, props to Nightow for the storytelling.

Vash promised Wolfwood to leave Razlo to him BUT NOBODY DARE INTERFERE.

LIVIOOOOOOO

And just when we fought we had gotten rid of him and he couldn't piss us off any more he's coming back round to hurt our boy

THANK YOU RAZLO. There can never be enough bullet holes in this dead man's body.

I really really like that Livio is not treating Razlo like the bad guy here, but acknowledges that Razlo is also a victim in a way. A victim of having to live through the fucked up shit that Livio could not cope with, of having to deal with that. (I hope I worded that all right, since I don't really know anything about the medical condition of which Razlo is the result?)

You did it, man. You saved Livio. And now you're even a person he looks up to you. Of the feels.

CRYBABY LIVIO IS BACK BITCHES oooh you earned that cigarette, Wolfie

Chapter 7:

I just love the kids and Melanie and how lively it seems. Surely it was hard and filled with loss as everybody had lost their parents, but it must also have been a childhood filled with love.

Baby Wolfwood oh my sweet boy... Sometimes I have wondered how little Vash and Wolfie would have gotten along. Or well, I'm sure they would've gotten along. I just would love to see them interact as kids. Out there, little Wolfwood, a long time ago, was once a boy drifting in space who would later be your most trusted friend. And who would, not in every way, but in an important way, save you.

Ah, just below is the panel where it says "six years have passed since that day" that always confuses me?? Still now because 6 years is not possible? I will wait for any explanation that you, my fellow bookclub readers, will come up with.

Don't scream at him!!!

Vash wanting to explain it to them is killing me. And Wolfwood's expression here is so...unclouded. Completely honest. Vulnerable. No my sweet boy you are no monster, did that not get into your head??

With the little time left...maybe he's right, maybe he can not explain to the children what he is, all the complex stuff.

You know, Vash, Wolfwood is tired. This moment, he just wants to spend it with you, and isn't that enough?

Wolfwood saying this...and then Vash begging to GOD, praying to not lose that man.

I never really got the grip on what Vash means with "stupid things". There's been this theory that Vash denies Wolfwood telling Vash his true feelings, but I don't think so. I think they both at this point know how they feel about each other. I think Vash just...can't stand to hear the emotional talk now because it's simply too much. Maybe it would be nice if they could talk out their innermost feelins at last. But maybe, they don't need that. Have their actions not proven enough already by now?

Throw that confetti guys

If some of you are on twitter and have followed the trigun fandom there you might have stumbled upon the marriage tweet my friend made when she read this scene the first time. I have nothing to add apart from that it rips my heart and soul in two. Now, there's one more chapter to this volume but this arc kinda already concludes with this here...and so I just want to say: I have NEVER before read something that felt so deeply emotional and tragic like this whole...Wolfwoof dying scene. Or, I might have and I might not remember, but in my mind this is the most tragic thing I can recall. Because...it takes its time. It already starts in Vol08, with Wolfwood's inner thoughts, and then it goes on for the whole next Volume where the stakes are getting higher and higher, until Vash appears to save them and save Wolfwood but it STILL is not enough. And Vash is shocked, is in denial, is in anger and is griefing and then we get a short moment of breathing, before it hits us again. We're living this all through Vash, and...and he can't bring himself to smile in the end. He can't. He only stares blankly until he then slumps down. Oh, and I read in the Trigun Wiki I think that this scene here is the only scene where we see Wolfwood cry. Which....gives it also so much more impact.

And, all in all, I think this is not the worst ending for Wolfwood. Of course I am devastated. Reading so much fanfiction, seeing so much fanart, makes it pretty easy to forget that there is no future for these two in canon...not together. (which is WHY I read the fanfiction because good lord did I need something to cope) And when I think about how they never get the chance to live the life together as they both may have wanted...then the feeling of loss hits the hardest. But then, on the other hand: First, killing off one of your main characters while giving them a metaphorical wedding scene is a sick move. An evil, sick move. And second: it fits the series. Because Trigun feels so real, and in real life, things don't always turn out the good way. And Wolfwood, with his life, never really had any future...but the thing is also, he died while knowing that he was able to achieve what he always wanted: the orphanage is safe and he brought Livio back. It is all he ever wanted to do, and it is thanks to Vash that he was able to do it. Would it have been dope if he lived on and if he and Vash could build their own orphanage and be caretaker dads together? Oh hell yeah. But, within the story of the series...it was always unrealistic. Wolfwood died smiling- whatever we think about it, he was content with what he achieved. (I think so at least! The panels where he cries out, they always strike me as a defiance, not wanting to die, but that might be reading to much into it. The whole thing for him is so emotional, the confetti, which tells him they welcome him back, despite knowing who he is...it would be a wonder if he didn't cry. So it might just be the emotionality of the whole scene.

PHEW I'm sure I could say more if I thought a bit about it but I'm gonna shut up here now. Time to do the last chapter, though I'll make another post, this one is far too long already.

#trigun #trigunbookclub #I only manage to sound more coherent and not constantly scream in my commentary because this is my third proper reread already #And I've looked at this pages far more often

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