#vivienne de fer critical

[kayura-sanada]

Oh yeah, some sections of this fandom LOVE to hurl abuse at Anders, who's trying to change things and then heap praise on Vivienne who's really only in it for herself and doesn't care who she has to step on to obtain more power and prestige. I wouldn't say I enjoy the way the narrative destroys any mage who goes against the Chantry as that would be a lie on my part, it actually feels like the narrative just disregards quite a lot of the more pro mage choices, at least to me. Particularly DA:I.

Mm. Tumblr was in its heyday when DA:I came out, and Tumblr is a place where fandom has collectively come together to dwindle everything in the universe down to simple, black-and-white cardboard cutouts. With a world and story that's very complex, Dragon Age as a whole was bound to crash and burn in such a fandom. It's no longer a matter of complexity and moral ambiguity, but a question of good and evil, right and wrong. To me, that's both infinitely infuriating - use your brains, for god's sake - and infinitely interesting. Since, you know, the Chantry also pushes a right-wrong, good-evil narrative. Oftentimes it feels like real people in our real world have fallen for this same simple narrative, though their opinions on who and what falls on which side may differ a bit from the Chantry's.

When it comes to Anders, he's evil because he killed innocent people in a terrorist attack. Which is weird, because most of fandom hates the Chantry and how mages are treated? Yet they believe change will come through negotiation? Honestly, I think these people who hate Anders are still in the mindset I was when I first played DA2 - these things I hate about the Chantry and the Circle and Kirkwall will all magically be fixed because I'm the main character in a video game. But in reality, it never works like that. Every country gained its freedom from monarchy with revolution. Slavery only ended after a war (and even then only in part). Corrupt leadership only dies when the leaders die, and innocent people will always die, too. "Gone With the Wind" is a classic for a reason.

To me, revolution is always bloody and messy and cruel, just as much as it is necessary. But in the world of good-evil, anyone who kills innocents (on-screen) is a bad guy. Period.

Vivienne, however, is different! Because the innocent man she sent to his death made a racist remark, which deserves death, apparently. (And with the good-evil crowd, such over-the-top violence is often lauded.) And since Vivienne hides behind elegance and cleverness, her careless cruelty and dismissal of other people is either missed or ignored as 'girlboss, take no shit from no man' behavior.

Or at least, I hope it's this and not the usual 'she's a powerful black woman so we love her' thing that fails to look at the character and only looks at her body. There's reasons I love the new Spider-Man MJ and hate Vivienne, and shockingly none have anything to do with their looks.

And on the point of pro-mage choices being thrown out the window, nonny, I'm afraid we're gonna have to disagree on this. The first Dragon Age showed me the cruelty of the templars and the Circle the instant I was told I either saved the Grand Enchanter or every mage died, even if I killed all the blood mages and demons. I saved those mages' lives then. DA: Awakening gave me the chance to befriend Anders against templars who would have seen him killed simply for being a free mage. DA2 gave me the chance to back Anders' revolution. DA:I let me give Fiona a leadership role outside of the Circle and let me bring back the College of Enchanters. It was the world and its anti-mage attitude that kept trying to set me back. But if the Hero of Ferelden hadn't befriended Anders and Justice, the revolution would never have happened. If my Inquisitor hadn't saved the mages of Redcliffe, they all would have been made slaves to Tevinter.

I love the efforts I've made because it feels difficult to induce change, and it comes through the two-steps-forward-one-step-back dance that is so common in history (we're watching it right now with our loss of abortion rights!). So this feels very real to me, that the changes I make seem unimportant and subtle and like they've barely made a ripple in how the world works. But my tiny efforts sparked a revolution. It made a giant portion of mages free. The world of Thedas may be fighting against these changes with everything it has, but they're happening, like it or not. We just have to keep pushing.

#nonny #response #dragon age #vivienne de fer critical #anders #pro-mage #anti chantry

[exhausted-archivist]

In regard to my last reblog, I kinda want to expand on it.

The novels are 100% optional flavour text. They aren't required for you to really understand what is happening in the world. With the exception of Asunder, that one for me is a bit of a grey area but that is only because it covers aspects of two companions (Cole and Vivienne) that are glossed over and is rehashed entirely in an aspect by another companion's personal quest (Cassandra's).

Not even World of Thedas, the lore books are required because a big chunk of them are put in the game as codices. And the character stuff that's not? That's also flavour text and the fact that Leliana doesn't share background reports on your companions or you can't find them is a missed opportunity in utilizing Leliana. The whole "Game" aspect of Orlesian politics could have also been better incorporated through Josephine and Vivienne.

This is long so... cut.

But TLDR: Nothing is mandatory. World of Thedas, Asunder, and Masked Empire are just under utilized flavour text. They better not do the same or worse with Tevinter Nights.

We know they cut Cole from having Evangelina and Rhys appear for his personal quest and instead we got that weird thing with Varric and Solas being disagreeing dads on nature vs nurture. Rhys and Evangeline, but more so Rhys, are so important to Cole's background that I feel they could have brought them on with a little codex or preamble and it would have worked fine. They could have touched more on Cole's fear of becoming a demon again, his sense of identity and self, and even explored his whole concept of "helping" and his unique brand of compassion - because really Cole's form of compassion is a little off the beaten path.

But, that isn't because Asunder is mandatory, but because Cole isn't well anchored to begin with. They don't really explore him as a spirit/demon, they mostly use him as a way to tell you about other characters, and he's really wishy washy on even establishing what happened at the White Spire or with Seeker Lambert and just gives these sort of teasing/tantalizing starting points.

Which leads into a weak point with Vivienne. She has issue with how the war started. She has issue with the vote. She has issue with everything that happened with the White Spire. Which again, isn't explored and is just flippantly mentioned in banter with Cole or when she's snarking at Fiona.

We know she has issue with the vote because it was made when everyone was already dealing with Circles falling and templars killing people and extremist mages were killing other mages that opposed them. The vote was made not by people who were elected by the Circles - not entirely. They were made by whoever happened to get to Andoral's Reach and it was very much an emergency vote. She wasn't there for the vote and that's the start of the issue for her. Which, understandably this was written before Vivienne even existed, but with that they never resolve why she wasn't there for the vote or even aware of the chaos of the Circles. You kind of guess it's because of Bastien's health but yeah not really clear.

Both Cole and Vivienne's stories would be better anchored as well as give the Mage Templar war and the factions with in it more nuance if they even tried to incorporate the cliff notes of Asunder. It would also make it more of a flavour text and less of this murky grey area.

Which to make it even more murky and grey, Cassandra's whole plot of discovering the reversal to tranquility? Yeah that was discovered by a tranquil mage at the request of Divine Justinia. Literally every circle mage and Chantry person (of a certain rank) knows of its existence. Which they cheekily hide in ambient dialogue between Mother Giselle and another cameo character from Cassandra's past, Avexis. An elven mage who was turned tranquil because of the danger from her abilities to not only control small creatures but dragons.

That story Cassandra is known for? The dragons attacking the Grand Cathedral? Avexis was involved with that. Whole big thing in Dawn of the Seeker. But I digress.

Mother Giselle and Avexis talk about the reversal to tranquility in Haven. Everyone already knows but Cassandra's personal quest misleads you cause she's so pikachu-faced about discovering that there was a reversal and the Seeker's knew about it. Only half of the information should be new to her, the rest everyone knew about for a year and could have been beautifully folded into her story as to not only her mixed feelings on how she didn't feel as close to Justinia as Leliana was - because Leliana was in on it and Cassandra wasn't even aware that the Divine requested this happen behind the Seeker's back in 9:35 Dragon.

It would have been a great point to fold into the story to not only give more context to Cassandra questioning the Order but also feeling out of control and lost. Honesty would have been a good point in tension for her and Leliana to have.

But instead Cole goes largely explained, Vivienne is under explored and barely connected to the Mage Templar War conflict, and Cassandra is a (in my opinion) much less interesting rehash of something most people connected to the Chantry and Circles already knew for the most part.

Asunder is less required reading and more of discarded world building that amounts to a lot of missed opportunities.

Something I think that Tevinter Nights is at risk of if not worse. Either under utilized world building or they go full tilt in the wrong direction and it becomes the first required reading.

Specifically reading, because the first required additional media is the Legacy DLC of which they yoinked Corypheus and the whole start of the red templars from. And then again with Tresspasser which establishes and reveals so much vital information for the next game. Both DLCs, I think should have/be updated to free. Especially since it's been so long and they are required for the story now. And any "well players had to pay for them previously" is bs because new players can get the whole trilogy on sale for like 15USD. Deluxe editions included so they come with the DLCs - except for DA2.

Asunder and DLCs aside, lemme now circle back to the whole World of Thedas/Leliana and co thing.

The thing that grinds my gears about the World of Thedas bits is that a large part of them... are written to Leliana as reports. In game Leliana talks about doing background checks - how she isn't thorough enough with Solas because there wasn't enough time and more pressing things were coming. He slipped through the cracks. But everyone else? She got dirt on. Sera included. Leliana could have been a great vector to not only divulge more flavour text lore of our companions, but it could have also given us more aspects of conversation. How do they feel knowing Leliana gave us reports? Is sera annoyed because of the questions you can now ask? Is Blackwall sweaty because you might know details he doesn't? Does Iron Bull want to compare notes and see how good Leliana's network is?

There was so much they could have done with Leliana to not only make her more involved but made us more involved with the characters. It would have lead to more interactive story telling and folded in making the meta knowledge less meta as our Inquisitor actually used the resources of our spymaster.

Still, not required reading, but a way to fold in all the world building you've done to make the characters feel more real and give us a chance to bond with them. Even if we can't talk to them about it because "leaving it open ended for headcanons".

This also goes into how "The Game" is under utilized in Inquisition. So much of Inquisition is telling vs showing us or letting us experience something. Having more scenes where we walk in on Josephine dealing with combative knowledge, using our origins and background perks to play the game introduces us to the concept of Orlesian politics and perhaps we get perks - more soldiers, resources, gold, higher starting approval at the Winter Palace. Something that has more relevance to us and folds in this supposed system all of Orlais is beholden to.

A similar system could have also been used with Vivienne. Whether she was hosting nobles or if she wanted to gossip with you over a letter she received that she thinks could be of use to you if you know how to properly use The Game. It would have also been interesting if it impacted the noble npcs hanging out in the hall, if it became weighted depending on just how good you were. Less Orlesians meaning less support from Orlais and more reliance on other nations to legitimize the Inquisition. More Orlesians? A stronger army, more standing with the court and the Chantry, more ammunition for when you're dealing with Celene and Gaspard in the Winter Palace. Things like that. Simple story threads that didn't really need to go anywhere but perhaps impacted the ambient state.

It would have helped tie in Masked Empire and give it more weight (and also make Michel de Chevin be more than the rando the Imshael maybe killed).

Just saying... It's just under utilized world building in an interactive media.

#Archi is yelling #dragon age #bioware critical #bioware writing critical #dragon age inquisition #dai #asunder #world of thedas #the masked empire #tevinter nights #cole #vivienne #madam de fer #leliana #josephine #long post

[niofo]

it's a huge missed opportunity not to have vivienne show up in winter palace when you don't recruit her, with up to -20 court approval based on the dialog options chosen (or whether the inquisitor even showed up on her gathering). by all means, she absolutely should have showed up during the negotiations, even if morrigan took her place as celene's advisor. vivienne is still connected to gaspard's father-in-law and the head of the council of herald, she should be there as bastien's representative, if nothing else. she's too important for orlesian politics to just dissappear entirely just bcos the inquisitor didn't want to ally with her, for whatever reason. in this fic i will-

#dragon age critical #vivienne de fer

[crossdressingdeath]

The difference between Vivienne defending the Circles and Cullen defending the Circles is twofold. First, Vivienne was, while still trapped by the Circle, largely on the outside. She seems to have had a fairly easy apprenticeship, her Harrowing was bad but not unusually so. I don't know the exact timeline, but becoming First Enchanter likely would've shielded her from at least some of the Templars' abuses and becoming Bastien's lover and the court enchanter would've ensured that she largely didn't live in the Circle. So she wasn't really around, seeing the worst of the Circle's abuses. But the much bigger thing is that Vivienne was one of the oppressed people in this situation. She was very young when she was taken to the Circle, she'd have little to no memory of the outside world, and as previously mentioned she managed to avoid most of the negative aspects of Circle life; as far as she knows this truly is the best life a mage can hope for. The issue is that a mage Quiz (who either has lived a life in the outside world or has had to deal with the more negative aspects of Circle life) can't get into that with her, not that it's an unreasonable position for her to hold.

Cullen, though? Cullen's first appearance in the series if you're playing a mage is him standing over a teenager with a sword, ready to cut them down if they fail a test they were never allowed to prepare for. If you're not playing a mage his first appearance is him telling you to murder every mage in the Circle, including the children you meet at the base of the tower, because he expects you to believe that he isn't broken but all of them are despite everyone there going through the exact same shit. His entire purpose in DA2 is being Meredith's obedient dog, helping her torture innocent people because he thinks they deserve it for being born and arguing for more widespread use of magical lobotomies. He knows exactly what the Circles do and what they're for. And he defends the system that allowed that. He thinks that he was in the right. When Cullen says that the Circles are good and the mages should be locked up in them, he's not someone who had an unusually good time of it in that system and thinks of it as "safer" than the wider world; he's a jailer and torturer who wants his victims back under his thumb.

#dragon age inquisition #vivienne de fer #cullen critical

[adler-obsessed]

Would like to start this off with empire blue is one of the top ten fanfics I have ever read in any fandom and I love it immensely. Your writing is so good and your characterization of Vivienne is fantastic. I really like how you made it clear that the circle as a system has also hurt Vivienne as well, even if it’s less so than some others, because I feel like so many people miss that when talking about Vivienne.

Now that I’ve said that, I was wondering what you think Vivienne’s opinion of spirit healers would be? They’re circle-approved (though only because they can be used), but they also do work closely with a single spirit, which Vivienne does distrust?

first of all anon, thank you so much for taking the time to read empire blue and I’m so glad you enjoyed it!!!!!! Comments like that honestly mean the world to me <33

I feel like Vivienne’s opinion on spirit healers would likely be very complex due to a number of reasons (as most things are with her lmao)

Although Circle mandated, we know spirit healers are generally under heavy supervision and Vivienne certainly seems like she would be very adverse to magic involving spirits.

What’s interesting though is that, for someone very adamant about the dangers of spirits, Vivienne is canonically a heavy user of spirit/direct fade magic.

Knight enchanters not only conjure a blade straight from the Fade (using a hilt that has a spirit willingly bound inside) but also literally veil themselves with the fade.

Vivienne’s special ability, Resurgence, also sounds eerily similar to what spirit healers do as well:

“You call on benign spirits to restore you and your allies for continuing the fight.”

My guess is Vivienne would initially be wary of spirit healers - just like she is of any powerful mage - but as long as they show considerable caution and discipline, she has no issue with the practice and practitioners in general!

Some random thoughts:

It’s interesting how, similar to phylacteries, spirit magic, while mostly condemned by the Chantry, is used heavily by its mages given special dispensation; the age old scenario of “it’s not bad when we use it, but if you use it, you’re breaking the rules!!”

Another interesting point I remembered while writing this is that there are a number of hints within game, whether that be banter, codex information, or Vivienne’s canon abilities that suggest that she’s naturally and highly gifted in spirit magic - a terrifying prospect for both a mage trying to avoid being persecuted by Templars as well as a Circle tower already afraid of having an extremely young prodigy. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why Vivienne is harrowed so young.

#dragon age #vivienne de fer #Vivienne dragon age #meta #da #bioware #dragon age magic #chantry critical #anti chantry

[pierogipie]

Sometimes I think about Aveline, Vivienne, and Evangeline and think about how these are three characters that are way less interesting than they could have been, if only the writers had thought for longer than two seconds about their development.

This is not a hate post! Or a critique of these characters! More a critique of the writing and that two out of the three of them would be way more interesting if their big companion quests didn't focus on their relationships with men 😐

#bioware critical #david gaider critical #da critical #vivienne de fer #dragon age aveline #evangeline #dragon age asunder #dragon age 2 #dragon age inquisition

[mywitchcultblr]

You know, I kind of wonder if Vivienne was written as she was solely in response to backlash about Anders in DA2. Considering she'd be exactly the sort of person he'd despise I don't think that's a coincidence..

ahhh she's another conservative trope in the companion who's there to annoy you or for drama and debates like Wynne and Sebastian

Even Fenris got this 'trope' treatment

( in regards to about mages)

( Bioware REALLY REALLY desperate to make him and Anders as trope about anti mage vs pro mage and disregarded everything else, there's a lot of things that Anders or Fenris did or said that doesn't make sense, blame bioware biases. They handled it bad because of the obsession with this rival anti vs pro mage )

(like bruh it make sense for Fenris and Anders join forces to fight oppression together, I get they have differences but from what I see in da2 their dynamic is just used for trope)

But Fenris position was balanced by Aveline and Sebastian

Bioware really want the community to have drama over companions but at times this decision often butcher the companions also, they always have this horny desire for;

'the good oppressed who doesn't like to fight back and work with the system'

'the good victim' even more blatant with DAI

She could have been better, she could have been a progressive mage from Rivain but nope

The first black companion and she's a conservative with Margaret Thatcher nickname, the iron lady *facepalm* bioware did the black community of Dragon Age dirty...

I don't get it why the fuck the first black companion is a conservative i don't get it, sometimes I suspect at this point it's just racism

She should have been better but alas it didn't happen, so yeah i can't like her from political perspectives alone

No hate if you or anyone likes her ( read pin post I'm okay with anyone so long they support the freedom choices and politics in DA )

#bioware #bioware critical #dragon age #sigh #vivienne de fer #aaaaaahhhhh #im tired #vivienne critical #anti bioware #elven rights #mage rights #dai #da2 #Aveline #fenris #wynne #politics #anders #anders was right

[anneapocalypse]

Why Vivienne Needs the Inquisition

No one 'winds up' at Court, my dear. It takes a great deal of effort to arrive there.

–Enchanter Vivienne to the Inquisitor

An ask I received (referring, I think, to something I said in this post, though I've alluded to it at other points as well):

How/why is Vivienne's position at court shakier than it seems? (Please publish this anonymously.)

Thank you for asking! I’ve wanted to write something on this subject for a while, so I appreciate the push to get it all down. It’s something I find really interesting about Vivienne, because it's something she doesn't want the Inquisitor, or anyone, to know, so it's all subtext in the game. Vivienne is a character who always holds the player character at arms' length--a bit less so when she likes them, but there is always some distance there. As such, she's a difficult character to get to know.

And while I do have some issues with the way Vivienne is handled in the game, particularly with narrative and quest design, I won’t be touching on those heavily here. For this post I want to focus on what can be determined about her motivations from the character as written.

Vivienne can be recruited to the Inquisition after the Inquisitor's first trip to Val Royeaux. Notably, she seeks out the Inquisitor's attention herself, inviting them to a gala at the Duke of Ghislain's estate, and also notably, once recruited she will not leave the Inquisition and cannot be forced to leave, no matter how low her approval of the Inquisitor. This is also something I have seen people question: why can't you kick Vivienne out, and why won't she simply leave if she disapproves of your choices? I hope this post will answer that question as well.

The most critical aspect of Vivienne's character to understand, I think, is that she has no stable institutional power. She is not a noble. She has no familial connections of the sort that can help even a mage to keep their head above water. She is a woman who was taken from her family at a young age and raised in an institution, and who has used all her wit and charisma to make the very best of that situation for herself.

Vivienne's position as First Enchanter of Montsimmard is mostly an achievement within the Circle itself. Montsimmard itself, however, was also a stepping stone to influence outside the Circle. Personally, I think the fact that Vivienne declined to join any fraternity when she became a full Enchanter, a shocking move at the time, indicates that she held ambitions outside the Circle from a young age. And Montsimmard was the perfect proving ground for her, a major Orlesian city whose ruling family maintain close relations with the Circle. In The Masked Empire, the Marquise de Montsimmard boasts about dining at the Circle, and she and her husband wear masks adorned with lyrium crystals which we are told were a gift from the First Enchanter. It seems likely, though not confirmed, that this was Vivienne herself.

(Incidentally, it is a real shame that Vivienne’s character seems to have solidified so late in the game’s development, because in retrospect I really feel her absence in the novels. She gets a brief mention in The Masked Empire as Madame de Fer, and absolutely nothing in Asunder, which we'll come back to.)

It seems that the Montsimmard mages were called upon with some regularity to entertain the court, and this is how Vivienne first caught the attention of Duke Bastien in 9:16 Dragon. Within a year, she had moved into a suite in his estate. Her position came under attack for the next few years, but nonetheless, after a single meeting with Empress Celene in 9:20 Dragon, she became the newly-crowned Empress's Court Enchanter.

(Edited to add: It seems to be sometime after this that Vivienne became First Enchanter of Montsimmard, at "an age young enough to cause scandal," though the date is never confirmed that I can find. Incidentally, as @shrovetidecat brought to my attention in the notes, Fiona is also supposed to have been Grand Enchanter of Montsimmard, which given that may be a lore inconsistency, unless Vivienne is only meant to have taken the position after Fiona rose to Grand Enchanter&mdash;and I'm not sure why a 40-year-old First Enchanter would be scandalous.)

By the time she meets the Inquisitor, she is likely somewhere in her 40s, and has been the Enchanter to the Imperial Court and the Mistress to the Duke de Ghislain for twenty years. She regularly mingles with the court and has built a practically unprecedented influence for herself in Orlesian high society.

And it's all about to fall apart, for three critical reasons.

First, the obvious: the mage rebellion. One cannot be First Enchanter of a Circle that no longer exists, though Vivienne certainly tries. A majority of mages, even if by a razor-thin margin, have declared that they do not recognize the Circle's authority—and therefore Vivienne's authority as a loyal Enchanter within that system.

I think Vivienne's dialogue with the Inquisitor and her remarks if taken to Redcliffe reveal a deep frustration and resentment of Grand Enchanter Fiona, who called for the vote to leave the Circle and now leads the rebel mages. Vivienne of course handles this in the manner to which she is accustomed, the culture of the Imperial Court, in which trading in verbal jabs and barely-veiled insults is a standard matter of social one-upsmanship. Outside of that environment, she comes across as petty and rude, which is an interesting point of characterization in itself: Vivienne has thrived in the court environment, but she does seem to have a bit of trouble adapting her manner to different circumstances, where that sort of thing might not benefit her. But what she's trying to do is frame herself before the Inquisitor as the reasonable and respectable mage, and Fiona as misguided and pitiable. How well this goes for her, of course, depends on who the Inquisitor is. But the effort itself kind of reveals the shaky ground she's standing on.

In her dialogue with the Inquisitor, Vivienne claims that as the rebel mages follow Fiona, the loyal mages follow her. But where are these loyal mages? There's maybe one or two mages we meet in the game (Enchanter Ellendra comes to mind) who seem to respect Vivienne's word. But if the loyal mages look to her as a leader, why is Ellendra alone in a cave in the Hinterlands to begin with? Why doesn't Vivienne bring a group of these loyal mages with her to Skyhold?

I think it's because Vivienne doesn't truly have followers among the mages, the way Fiona does. This is the story she's telling the Inquisitor, to capitalize on the idea that the rebel position is not a consensus, and also that she still has influence among a significant number of mages. The truth is, she doesn't. She’s spent most of her life courting influence outside the Circle, not in it. She has presided over a Circle where she doesn’t even live day-to-day. I can’t imagine that has particularly endeared her to many of her fellow mages, even the ones who are loyalists or moderates.

Contrast this with Wynne, a pro-Circle Aequitarian who is deeply involved in Circle life despite undertaking sanctioned work outside the tower, and is also deeply involved in the events leading up to the vote for independence. Whatever the Doylist reasons for Vivienne's absense from Asunder, the fact remains: she's just not there. She has no presence in the events leading up to the rebellion. When speaking critically of Fiona's vote, she discusses it in the context of Anders' attack on the Kirkwall Chantry, and says nothing of the circumstances surrounding Fiona's push for a vote—not the revelations about Tranquility, not the conclave (no not that Conclave, the conclave of mages at which Fiona called for the vote for independence), not the subsequent massacre by the templars and the remaining mages' decision to stand and fight. And perhaps most notably, no one mentions Vivienne, positively or negatively, during the events of Asunder. Not once. We are left with the conclusion that Vivienne is simply not heavily involved in Circle politics, no matter what impression she may wish to give the Inquisitor. Her influence does not lie within the Circle.

And I think Vivienne knows this, and realizes that it's suddenly become a big problem for her.

The second big problem is Morrigan.

Vivienne has had the favor of the Empress herself for twenty years. She has, by others' accounts, managed to turn the position of Court Enchanter from "little more than court jester" to a position of influence and respect. And then the Grand Duke attempts a coup, and the Empress's elven lover runs away with a dangerous secret, and suddenly the Empress is enlisting the services of some unwashed swamp witch while Vivienne is standing right there!

Like I cannot overstate what a absolutely galling slap in the face it would be to Vivienne that even as she is attempting to uphold the legitimacy of the Circle and thus of her own authority within it, Celene effectively creates the "Arcane Advisor" position as "Court Mage 2: Apostate Boogaloo" just so she can get advice on non-Circle-approved magics. Advice that Vivienne could not give even if she wanted to, even if the Empress asked, because she has no knowledge of eluvians and ancient elven magic.

Both Dorian and Cole needle Vivienne about her jealousy of Morrigan, and I think quite accurately, no matter how quick Vivienne is to deny it.

Her influence over the Empress is fast eroding. She has been replaced in all but name.

And the third and most personal big problem is Bastien's illness.

Vivienne has enjoyed a romance with one of the empire's most influential nobles for twenty years. She has lived in his home and been on good terms with his wife until her passing. Her influence in the Imperial Court owes a lot to Bastien's affections. Bastien is not only a Duke but a member of the Council of Heralds, the political body responsible for overseeing matters of titles and inheritance in Orlais. They are quite literally the most powerful group in the country; even the Empress rules at their favor, without which she would never have gained the throne in the first place.

And now Bastien is dying, something Vivienne takes care not to mention to the Inquisitor at first. It's not until after the ball at the Winter Palace that Vivienne asks the Inquisitor for help with her potion in a last-ditch attempt to prolong his life—and even then she does not reveal her true purpose until after the Inquisitor has returned with the wyvern's heart. And while it's possible to interpret multiple ways, I personally believe from her response to his death that she did care for Bastien. She didn't need to bring the Inquisitor to his deathbed at all, if she wanted to continue concealing his illness, something she's taken care to do up until that point. It bespeaks a measure of trust that she allows the Inquisitor to see her so—in her grief, as well as in her loss of position.

Because Bastien's death is a terrible loss for Vivienne socially as well as personally. Bastien's son will inherit his estate, and whether Vivienne is allowed to go on living there will be entirely at his discretion. Perhaps he will permit her to stay, but she cannot count upon his grace, nor upon the protection she enjoyed with Bastien any longer; and furthermore if she is allowed to stay, it will be a favor to her, making her beholden rather than granting her greater influence. She won't have the dignity of being Bastien's widow; she is his mistress, and respected as that position may be in the Orlesian court, it gives her no true claim to his family.

Vivienne is about to lose everything she has built for herself.

Without Bastien, without Celene, she will be left with… what? The position of First Enchanter to a Circle that no longer exists? If her own best-case scenario occurs and the rebellion is halted and the Circles are reinstated, then she still loses all the freedom she has gained and is forced to return to a Circle tower herself—a sphere in which, as previously discussed, she holds less influence than she would like the Inquisitor to believe. Even if she remains First Enchanter, it's hard to see this as anything but a massive step down in the social hierarchy, the beginning of a long slide into what the Fade reveals as her greatest fear: irrelevance.

It's a humiliation that Vivienne cannot bear.

This is why she won't leave the Inquisition, no matter how much she may despise the Inquisitor. Vivienne needs the Inquisition far more than she lets on. This even puts the petty low-approval furniture-moving scene into context. Yes, she’s doing it to snub the Inquisitor, but that doesn’t actually gain her anything. I think it’s deeper than that. The Inquisition was Vivienne’s fallback plan, and it’s not going well. The Inquisitor is making her look bad, she is finding no avenue to further advancement here, but she can’t leave. So, her response is to try to reclaim some sense of control over her life, asserting a kind of power she had at Bastien’s estate and was likely denied in the Circle: control over her own space.

Even if Bastien were to live a bit longer, Vivienne really has nowhere higher she can climb in the Imperial Court. She can't become a noble herself. She can't marry Bastien, or any other noble for that matter, because she is a mage. And I'm sure she's highly aware of this fact. Bastien is several years a widower himself; it is not his former marriage that prevents him from marrying her, now. It is her status as a mage which bars her from entering a noble family, legally, socially, politically. That Bastien never seems to have raised the question at all speaks to the fact that no matter how much he may have stuck his neck out for Vivienne, there was a line even he was not interested in crossing.

So where does she have to go from here?

Along comes the nascent Inquisition. Shaking things up. If any organization could rattle the gilded walls of the Chantry, it's this one.

Why not take a stab at the Chantry, at this point? What does she have to lose?

It didn’t really sink in for me for several playthroughs because she isn't wearing cleric's garb, but Bastien's sister Marcelline, who visits Skyhold after his death with Bastien’s son? She's a grand cleric. One of the surviving grand clerics who will decide the next Divine. Vivienne involves the Inquisitor in her plan to save Bastien, a plan she likely knows will fail—but she puts in the effort. She then introduces the Inquisitor to Grand Cleric Marcelline, having told her how the Inquisitor came to her aid. Marcelline expresses gratitude: “Madame de Fer has told us what great trials you faced, trying to save my poor brother’s life.” Bastien’s son Laurent is a powerful ally in his own right, now a member of the Council of Heralds, but also likely the one who will decide whether Vivienne keeps her suite in the Ghislain estate.

And if the conversation goes well, Vivienne tells the Inquisitor that it was "quite the triumph." If the Inquisitor expresses confusion, she patiently explains the influence that both Laurent and Marcelline wield, and that they have now secured the trust of both. If Vivienne becomes Divine, Marcelline’s favor no doubt goes a long way in getting her there.

Of course Vivienne will continue to take a conservative position on the mage question. A mage looking to insinuate herself into the Chantry hierarchy would have to, just as a mage seeking the freedom to consort with the court would have to. In the same way that a Hawke with aspirations of seizing the vacant seat of Kirkwall's Viscount must side with the templars at the end to show the nobility that they represent stability and order, the Chantry's first mage cleric must be pro-Circle, pro-templar, conservative to the bone. Vivienne seems to recognize this as far more important than actually appearing devout. It's also fascinating to me how little she bothers to make any pretense of a personal faith, instead always discussing the Chantry as an important social institution and political body. And this attitude doesn't seem to impede her chances at the Sunburst Throne very much, no more so than being a mage already would.

Vivienne knows exactly what she's doing. She always has.

Vivienne comes to the Inquisition seeking power and influence in the Chantry because her position among the nobility is falling apart. Whether she comes in with the intention to reach for the Sunburst throne itself is debatable, and I personally think it might have been the intent that she does have that ambition but seeks to let the Inquisitor think it was their own idea, though I'm iffy on how successful that is if it was the intent. Nonetheless, I do believe that Vivienne comes to the Inquisition with the intent to seek influence within the Chantry, realizing that the recent upheaval may offer her a unique opportunity to do so. And depending on how closely the Inquisitor aligns with her goals, she may succeed quite dramatically.

References

Codex Entry: Madame de Fer

Talking with Vivienne at Haven and Skyhold

Vivienne's high disapproval scene

After Bastien's death

Banter with Cole

Banter with Dorian

The World of Thedas vol. 2, pp. 235-239 (hardcover edition)

Dragon Age: The Masked Empire, p. 31 (paperback edition)

#vivienne #madame de fer #dragon age meta #dragon age inquisition #the masked empire #asunder #bastien de ghislain #blunders of thedas #ask anne #thedas politics

[nirikeehan]

I was going to give you a Metrion prompt but this one jumped out and punched me in the face for some Samson/Thalia, sorry. "Sillage (French) - (n.) The scent that lingers in air, the trail left in water, the impression made in space after something or someone has been and gone; the trace of someone’s perfume." from the Otherworldly Prompts pt 1

THANK YOU I LOVE THIS. this is the start of a scene between Samson and Vivienne in nightmare!au, but I promise Thalia does factor in. The Red Templars have captured Vivienne and Samson intends to grill her for info on where she let Cullen and Thalia escape to.

WC: 542

For @dadrunkwriting

---

The cells in Comte Cock-For-Brains’ dungeon were down too many bloody flights of stairs. Circular stone stairs that wound and wound, leaving Samson dizzy once he reached the bottom. He took another surreptitious shot of red while his retinue were collecting the keys from the gaoler, a fat old bastard who had two teeth and was partially deaf. He’d manned the lord’s dungeons for nigh on fifty years, and was going to make them wait fifty more out of sheer incompetence. 

The swallow steadied Samson, at the least. He looked to Barris. “And she hasn’t been forthcoming under questioning?”

“No, ser.” In the damp dark, Barris’s one red eye gave off an unsettling glow. “She’s stymied three interrogators thus far.”

Samson sighed. “If you want anything done, you’ve got to do it yourself. Come.” 

At last the gaoler produced the keys, inserted one into a comically large lock, and swung open the circular dungeon door. Beyond lay a row of cells, dripping and smelling of mold. Only one sconce was alight, down near the end where the prisoner awaited. 

“Wait here,” Samson told Barris and the other guards. He took the key, took the torch off the wall, and approached the cell. 

He paused by the door. A faint scent hung in the air, sweet and floral. Samson’s pulse quickened, for he was once again transported back to the cave, with Thalia so near. He looked around, knowing she could not possibly be here, but hoping all the same. The reverie vanished like the mirage it was; before him, through the bars, sat a different woman entirely. 

Days in the bleeding dark, and she still smells like her perfume. It made sense now. She’d had Thalia in her clutches, dressed up, they said, like a doll. She’d probably lent the girl her fragrance. In the corner of the cell, she sat with regal posture, watching him like a cat on the prowl.

“General, darling, you look dreadful,” said Madame de Fer. 

Annoyance flooded Samson, because she still looked as beautiful as ever, even in fetters. Her smooth, black skin, sharp cheekbones, full lips and long, lithe body — Samson would have paid top coin to bed a woman like Vivienne, once upon a time. Now, sadly for them both, that era had passed, but her beauty still infuriated him. 

“What’s a matter, Iron Lady, you don’t like my ensemble?” Samson smirked, dusting off a lapel with his free hand. He thought he cut a striking figure, personally: the black tailcoat, the plum-colored ruffled sleeves. All them damn Orlesian fops could prance around in their finery, why not him? 

“Oh, it’s not your outfit,” Vivienne said, chuckling. “But I certainly hope you don’t think you’re fooling anyone with it.” 

A pity, really, that Vivienne hadn’t taken his deal. She had a sharp tongue and the wit to go along with it. If Samson had managed to retain her as an ally, how different things would be right now. He sighed, unlocked the cell door, and stepped inside. He tucked the torch into a notch on the wall and looked down at Vivienne as she blinked in the new, bright light. “You’re not in any position to be criticizing me right now, Madame de Fer.” 

#raleigh samson #vivienne #nightmare!au #fics #dragon age drunk writing circle #trevelyan x samson #samson is a creepy sad sack

[queenaeducan-writes]

Celestine Black

Pairing: Josephine Montilyet & Solas (gen) Characters: Josephine Montilyet, Solas Fandom: Dragon Age: Inquisition Archive Warnings: None Applicable Other Tags: Classism, Fantasy racism Summary: Though Skyhold's guests may be of noble blood, their manners often leave much to be desired. When one insults the Inquisition's resident magical expert, who just so happens to be an apostate, Josephine takes it upon herself to remedy the situation. In typical Montilyet fashion. Written for TheSilentBard on AO3 for the @solas-lovers-exchange

“Apostate!” The word is an accusation upon Lady Verise’s lips, cutting as the shattered glass on the rotunda floor.

Josephine catches no more than a glint in the corner of her eye before she hears it break. By the time she looks it has scattered, broken pieces crawling across the stone like a plague of translucent roaches. Wine slides down Solas’s temple. Thick and viscous, it dries a violent plum purple where it landed on his sweater. The delicate slope of Lady Verise’s nose rather resembles the bellows of an accordion as she snarls in his direction.

The rest of the room looks on in a mix of shock and amusement. A knowing smile curls beneath the porcelain moustache of Lord Maigny, a sure sign that she ought to have expected this. Anticipated it in some way. It had seemed improper, showing off the murals without giving the artist his due, especially not when he stood so close at hand.

But it was a mistake, that much has been made evident.

Solas is the first to speak, dabbing at his face with a paint cloth as he does. “It appears our guest is in need of another glass,” he remarks, in a tone remarkably dry for one so damp. He levels his gaze towards the guest in question, then ducks it, deferential. “You are of course correct, my lady. I have never known the Circle’s guidance, although the loyal mages within the Inquisition have made it their mission to remedy the oversights brought about by a hedge mage’s education. Should you have the opportunity to speak with Enchanter Vivienne while you are here; I am certain you will find her insight as to my insufficiencies invaluable, and how she has endeavoured to correct them.”

Josephine bites the inside of her cheek to keep from smirking (a critical skill for an elder sister and ambassador to possess). Although she possesses no limit to her admiration for Vivienne, she had sat in on one of their discussions long enough to become well-acquainted with Solas’s. Still, if asked, she has no doubt Vivienne will play along. She has tied her reputation to that of the Inquisitions, and undermining that, as well as her own influence within it, is not how the game is played.

“Madame de fer was among the few dissenters in Empress Celene’s court after she invited the swamp witch into our midst,” Lady Verise tsks. “Why would she abide an apostate’s company?”

Seeing the chance to retake the reins of the situation, Josephine steps in. “If I may be so bold as to speak on Enchanter Vivienne’s behalf: Master Solas has behaved with the utmost propriety since joining our ranks. Any reservations we had regarding his position here have long since passed.”

Read the rest on AO3!

#solas #josephine montilyet #dragon age #da fanfic #dragon age fanfiction #Character: Solas #Character: Josephine Montilyet #relationship: platonic #relationship: solas & josephine montilyet

[socialmediasocrates]

gonna be completely honest i might not ever say it but i do base how much i respect your opinions on fictional characters on the way you read, in order of importance

Vivienne de Fer: not sorry! if your vivienne opinions are bad i don't care what else you think about any other character ever!

Wyll Ravengard: see above!

Lae'zel: y'all aren't ready for actually bitchy women and it shows i see your bad faith garbage takes

Halsin Silverbough: L + ratio + try saying something beautiful and true for once in your life + the existence of other valid criticism doesn't validate YOUR garbage criticism

Sebastian Vael: see above

#mothspeak #some of y'all are honestly just nasty petty people

[kayura-sanada]

Oof, that particular banter where she compares Sera to a rat, I assume that meant she would have the filled the vault with water? As if she wasn't a cruel enough person to other mages she's also incredibly demeaning to elves on top of that. And people think she isn't utterly cold blooded?

I'm pretty sure Vivienne meant she could fill a vault with jewels and money over and over again because her power, wealth, and reach were far higher than anything Sera could ever touch or even comprehend, because she was so little and poor and pathetic she, a lowly beggar from the streets, could never understand the heights that Vivienne has reached. Which honestly... I think is even worse than basically calling someone a sewer rat (Jafar quote, but it's weird how Jafar's insults sound so similar to Vivienne's..).

It's moments like when Vivienne says such things, with that usual aristocrat swagger, that I want to jump through the screen and inform Vivienne that in our real world history, there isn't a single country like hers that hasn't faced revolution and had their royals and nobles get their heads chopped off by those same lowly, little sewer rats.

#anonymous #response #vivienne de fer critical #sera #dragon age #da:i

[a-byronic-heroine]

Bad take: People dislike Vivienne because she’s a WOC.

Hot take: People dislike Vivienne because of her dogshit opinions on mage’s right (anyone who thinks mages should go back to their gulag is just wrong no matter who or what they are sorry not sorry), her holier than thou attitude coming from a place of privilege (as First Enchanter, the court mage for Orlais and the mistress of a noble), the way she treats many of the other companions and her general close minded inability to look at other viewpoints.

#Vivienne de fer critical #Vivienne critical #madame Vivienne critical #dragon age #minimizing everyone’s criticism down to sex and color/ethnicity is such a gaslighting play #I mean sure some people may feel that way but all of us? fuck off with that bullshit

[viiisenyas]

Forgive me for giving my unwanted opinion, but—

The fact that mods of Isabela being fair skinned are still up on the Nexus to this very day disturbs me almost as much as the straight!Dorian mod does. Like sure, I get it— it’s your game and you can mod it to your heart’s content— whatever. Go nuts. You’re going to do whatever you want at the end of the day anyway. But don’t expect me to sit by idly in silence and not criticize it for what it clearly is. It is whitewashing and yes, it bothers me to no end. And to erase that from Isabela for the sake of getting your rocks off is honestly BOLLOCKS to me. And let’s not pretend that it isn’t for your own creepy white centric sexual fantasies. There isn’t any point in denying it and lying to yourself if you’ve downloaded it because it is quite literally in the title of the mod. And don’t think I haven’t noticed that the title implies that the original complexion of Isabela wasn’t beautiful or enticing— I have. And I’m still just as livid now, as I was four years ago.

As for the straight!Dorian mod, I really shouldn’t have to explain why that’s disgusting and creepy. If you want Dorian to sleep with your inquisitor, make a male inquisitor. It’s quite literally that easy. I get it, Dorian is a very handsome character and while I was the slightest bit disappointed that he was gay because of the flirting he did with my female inquisitor on my first playthrough with his romance, I rooted for him and felt for him because I know what it’s like to be put into a box. (My own father disowned me when I came out as bisexual and the entire scene of meeting his father had me in tears.)

But erasing that amazing quality about him— erasing WHO DORIAN IS, again, for the sake of your repugnant sexual indulgences completely disregards his entire character arc of coming to terms with his father about his sexuality. Not to mention, it’s a bloody RED FLAG. To me personally, It exudes the same energy as I’m going to keep trying to sleep with my gay friend and hope he turns straight.

“bUt JoEy iT’s jUsT fIctIonAL cHarAcTeRs! bUt JoEy iT’s jUsT a gAmE!”

First of all, Fuck you.

Second, FUCK YOU.

If you’re okay with whitewashing canonically POC characters, just say so. If you are a homophobic creep, just say so. There isn’t anything beneficial in lying to yourself or the rest of us about it.

#fandom critical #dragon age critical #dragon age 2 #DA2 #racism #rant #I’m definitely a live and let live type of person #like sure I’ll let you do whatever but I’m still going to complain about it if I don’t like it #so long as I have freedom of speech I’m going to voice my opinion #this rubbish completely infuriates me to no end #isabela #vivienne de fer #duncan #it is 2 in the bloody morning and this is what I think of at night when I cannot sleep and want new mods for my games #nexus mod critical #100 #200

[crossdressingdeath]

People are calling out exclusively Vivienne on that Circle post againnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Leave my girl alone. Or alternately bring up the other pro-Circle characters who've actually been inside one as well. Yeah she's got somewhat warped views of how the Circle actually operates, but she has the excuse of having been in a very unique position and not having to really face how bad the Circles actually are for most mages and also acknowledges that the Circles and the Templars hurt a lot of people and need a huge amount of reforms. If you want to get pissed at anyone for being pro-Circle when they should know better, try Commander "has watched every Circle he's ever been stationed in fail due to the abuses piled on the mages imprisoned in them but still insists that the Circles are good and mages should be locked up" Cullen, whose position as one of the abusers means that when he calls for the Circles to be restored what he's actually calling for is more opportunities for mages to be tortured and murdered.

#dragon age inquisition #vivienne de fer #cullen critical

[mrs-theirin]

oh you hate vivienne? uh huh. hey, completely unrelated, what are your thoughts on cullen?

#i've had it #thought this was funny enough to post #vivienne de fer #cullen critical #fandom critical #dragon age #dragon age inquisition #da #dai