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pinkeoni · 1 year

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Figuring Out Lonnie’s Whole Deal

(Or, assembling a timeline of pre-show events inspired by a culmination of theories centering around one Lonnie Byers)

After spending much time deliberating and theorizing, I’ve come to what I believe is a solid timeline of events relating to Lonnie Byers grounded in evidence from the show.

Now I don’t have all of the pieces, but also if I had all of the pieces then I wouldn’t need to be theorizing in the first place. Still, I’m fairly confident in my assessment. Maybe it would be wise of me to wait for The First Shadow to come out to give me more information, but for all intents and purposes of this I will only be looking at evidence within the text of the show. So no cast or crew comments, no supplemental materials, and as much as I love it, no speculation regarding TFS. Still, I think the show has enough evidence to support my assertion.

Things to establish:

A lot of what I’m about to talk about comes from a basis of these three things—

1. Will and El’s storylines mirror each other, which I charted out here. Their stories share a lot of differences, and a lot of similarities.

2. Powers are being used in this show to explore themes of sexuality through a sci-fi/supernatural lens. I talk about this in length here, but tl;dr El’s powers are used to explore the exploitation and reclamation of female sexuality, and Will’s powers are being used to show the demonization and repression of homosexuality.

3. Oh yeah, and Will has powers, by the way.

Surface Level Information We Are Given About Lonnie Byers:

It might be best to have a refresher of what we know about Lonnie Byers. Most of this comes from season one and all of it is displayed directly to the audience—

Lonnie is the absentee father of Jonathan and Will and ex-husband of Joyce

He left his family at an unspecified date that led Jonathan and Will to build Castle Byers the night of

He currently lives in Indianapolis

He used to call Will homophobic slurs

Joyce once argued with him about not showing up to a visitation with Will

Jonathan and Joyce do not speak of him fondly. Will’s feelings are unclear but seem positive “It’s fun to go with him sometimes”

Expressed interest in wanting to see Jonathan more

Referred to Joyce as “babe” despite being apart and having another girlfriend

Did not take Joyce’s calls to his house

Doubted Joyce, took down her Christmas lights and tried to repair the hole in the wall

Has unspecified debts

Likes to fix cars

Doesn’t like cops

Tried to use his “dead” son for lawsuit money

Was kicked out by Joyce and hasn’t been seen on screen since

Things to glean from just below the surface:

The following are things that are not stated directly, but can be easily inferred from clues given in show—

Lonnie is likely an alcoholic, shown through an abundance of beer bottles littering his house. Even if he splits it between him and his tiny girlfriend, it’s still an absurd amount of beer for two people. It’s possible he may have other addictions as well.

Lonnie was likely physically abusive towards Jonathan given his “You’ve gotten stronger” comment in the house. It’s possible that the extent of his abuse could stretch far beyond that for both Jon and Will.

Will likely used to hide from his dad. Jonathan and Will built Castle Byers the night he left, which Jonathan remarks that Will likes to hide in. Not to mention the “he’s good at hiding” comment.

The rest of this post is going to be much more speculative, but it’s all speculation that is grounded in what we see on and just below the surface.

Theory #1) Lonnie was involved with MK-ULTRA

This was an idea that I tossed around a while ago, that after spending time with and finding new evidence I’ve now grown more confident in.

Most of this confidence comes from this conversation between Becky and Jopper. Becky tells Hop that him and Terry would have gotten along, as Terry didn’t like authority or the government— “The Man , with a big capital M.” (which is ironic given Hopper is a cop)

When discussing who was involved with MK-ULTRA, Becky mentions “people like [Terry]”

So people like Terry, who maybe don’t like authority as was just mentioned?

It seems as though the Byers have always been down on their luck in terms of finance. Would it be hard to believe that, especially given the close proximity of the lab to the Byers house and Lonnie's willingness to get money in the show, Lonnie might have partaken in a paid study in the past? ("You were in it for the money!")

Above I mentioned the implication that Lonnie is an alcoholic. If he was involved with a study involving hard drugs, could he have developed addiction problems through the program? Furthermore, wouldn't it also make sense for Lonnie to gain a mistrust of authority after being taken advantage of by the government?

In my initial post about it I discuss how this could be foreshadowed through Hopper’s past as well. Hopper was involved with something government related that required chemicals, something that ended up affecting his child.

Theory #2) Lonnie was working with the lab during season one

Another part of proving Lonnie’s MK-ULTRA involvement is his connection with the lab. Everything that I’m about to list could align perfectly with Lonnie simply just being a shitty ex and father, but everything that I’m about to list could also align perfectly with the idea that Lonnie was working with the lab against Joyce the entire season.

1) Lonnie’s fishiness with Joyce’s phone call

I’ve already made an entire post about this here but I’ll recap all of the important bits.

Right before we see Joyce call Lonnie in the first episode, we are shown the lab spying on her conversation explicitly. Joyce is then sent to voicemail, which given the ordering of scenes makes me wonder if the lab purposefully intercepted her call.

Joyce also never actually talks to Lonnie on the phone. Cynthia picks up until their call is disconnected, which could have been Cynthia but also could have been the lab interfering again.

When Jonathan confronts Lonnie about not returning Joyce’s call, he kind of shrugs off his answer.

Why the hesitancy at first, Lonnie?

Lonnie tells Jonathan that he’s talked to police, which is likely, but then adds a comment that makes me question if he talked to any Hawkins cops at all.

Why do you need to ask if Hopper is chief, if Hawkins police came to question you, Lonnie?

2) The timing of Lonnie showing up in Hawkins

Even after being told this his own son is missing, Lonnie does not show up in town until after—

Will’s “body” is found in the quarry

Joyce refuses to sign off on the fake body

Joyce actually speaks to and is able to see Will through the hole in the wall

The next time we see Joyce is when Lonnie pulls up that night at the Byers house. Here is what Lonnie does while he’s there:

Tells Joyce that Will is in her head

Tell Jonathan not to feed into Joyce’s “delusions”

Takes down the Xmas lights that Joyce was using to talk to Will

Covers the hole in the wall that Joyce saw Will through

Unsuccessfully tries to convince Joyce to use Will’s "death" for money

All of these actions align perfectly with Lonnie’s character, do you also see how it also aligns perfectly with Lonnie trying to purposefully cover up the truth?

We don’t see Joyce call Lonnie to come over and I highly doubt that Jonathan asked him to come. Granted, Lonnie was most likely notified by police of Will’s death, why not come right away? Why wait until after Joyce refuses to believe that it’s Will’s body and after she actually sees Will alive in her walls?

Remember that the lab had likely bugged her house as well, given the scene where Hop finds a bug in his cabin.

Think about the timing of when the lab decided to place Will’s body in the quarry and have it found, something that we know for a fact was their doing. This comes after Joyce had discovered the ability to talk to Will through the lights and right after the writing on the wall scene, when Joyce was coming closer to the truth.

If a lab personnel showed up at the Byers, took down the lights and hammered over the wall, that would obviously draw a lot of suspicion towards them. But if the lab could get someone on the inside to do it, perhaps an ex-spouse that can be easily manipulated with cash and already had connections to them, that wouldn’t raise an eyebrow.

That’s also where the lawsuit comes in. If the lab is paying off Lonnie and his family, they can’t just give them the a ton of cash directly, it would likely have to go through a third party under the guise of something else, like a legal suit. I’m willing to bet all my money that the suit Lonnie wanted to file on the Sattlers was just another cover from the lab.

Theory #3) Lonnie was trying to hand Will over to the lab

Another note about Terry, if Will and El are mirrors then Lonnie and Terry may possibly be mirrors, too. If Terry was desperate to get El out of the lab then maybe Lonnie was desperate to get Will into the lab. Also the difference between Terry's daughter being taken from her/Lonnie voluntarily leaving his own son.

Something we know about Lonnie Byers— he was homophobic towards Will and did not want to visit him after he had left.

Something else we know about Lonnie Byers— he likes to fix cars.

We have confirmation that Lonnie was trying to “fix” Will, at least in a less aggressive manner, by taking him to baseball games. Jonathan says explicitly, “He’s trying to force you to like normal things.” This line is so incredibly loaded, what Jonathan is saying below the surface is "He's trying to force you to like girls."

The above scene is in the same episode where Jonathan goes to Lonnie’s Indianapolis house, and we get a line from Lonnie about him fixing up a car.

Yes, Will is being compared to a car. Lonnie wants to fix him.

And remember, Will has powers, and powers are being used as a way to explore sexuality.

So given Lonnie’s connection with the lab from MK-ULTRA as expressed before, along with Lonnie’s hatred of Will and homophobia, along along with powers as a metaphor for Will's queerness, it leads me to believe that Lonnie was trying to cure Will of his powers through the lab. This would essentially be the supernatural version of gay conversion therapy.

I want to talk about the word “mistake”

This word is so potent and really sticks out because we haven’t really seen it used in this way on the show before. The writers could have had Will say “monster” to relate to El's arc, or they could have had him say “freak” which would not only relate to Eddie but is something that Will has called himself in the past. But instead they decide to give him a new word that is different from the labels other characters give themselves.

The word mistake is unique to Will.

What do you do with mistakes? You fix them.

I have a lot of fun with Will-being-a-lab-kid theories, and nothing but absolute love to those who make them, but after doing a lot of my own thinking I’ve since come to the conclusion that Will didn’t grow up in the lab at all, but Lonnie was making an unsuccessful effort to ship Will to the lab. Part of El and Will’s narrative mirroring is Will coming from a normal background while El does not.

Which isn’t to say that the lab didn’t want Will, I think they very much did. I’ve seen the take that Lonnie tried to hand Will to the lab but he didn’t display powers at the time so they wouldn’t take him. But do you really think that that would stop them from wanting him anyway, especially if the boys father was giving him to them willingly? Do you really think that Martin “you wouldn’t stop” Brenner was gonna turn down another child? That someone was willing to give to him?

So then, if Lonnie was willing to give Will to the lab and the lab was willing to take him, what was stopping them?

For starters, I’m guessing that the process involved in receiving a new test subject, especially one that wasn’t born into the lab, would take patience. They can’t just nab Will off the street. They would probably have to surveil things for a while, gain intel from Lonnie, and come up with a strategy.

A strategy that may involve falsifying an accident, a fake body, and the funneling of money via fake lawsuit?

I’m not saying that the lab was the ones behind Will’s disappearance, at least initially. I think the mothergate opening was completely unpredictable from their end and instead necessitated the plan to be accelerated due to sudden unforeseen circumstances, as well as taking advantage of Will’s presence in the Upside Down to try and take him for themselves.

So why wait until now? If they had an airtight plan, why not act sooner?

Could there have been an incident, perhaps, with the lab, which happened prior to Will’s disappearance, that may have delayed this process?

I’m willing to bet that a mass death event of majority of the test subjects and personnel from the place that Lonnie was trying to send Will to, might be enough to put the brakes on this operation, if not on delay for a few years so they can regroup.

While we’re here, I wanna talk about Will’s similarities to Henry Creel

The comparisons between Henry and Will aren’t something hidden under the layers for only die hard theorists to find, this is something that everyone and their mothers were discussing on twitter. The similarities were noticeable even from casual viewing.

Image via Reddit

We know from his monologue that Henry’s mother knew he had powers and wanted to send him away to a doctor, a doctor that we later learn was actual Papa Brenner.

If Will and Henry are similar, is it possible that their parents wanted similar things? The main difference being that Will actually did evade Dr. Brenner.

Furthermore, is it possible that Will has powers similar to One’s and that the lab could have been knowledgeable of this? If that is the case, it may stand to reason that they might be hesitant to bring in someone with similar abilities to the guy who just killed a bunch of people.

I used to think that Will and Henry had to have completely different sets of powers, and while I do think that Will may have abilities unique to himself, given how they are compared I do think that Will may have similar powers to him. In fact, we may have already seen Will display a traveling into the mind ability in season one.

Theory #3.5) Lonnie’s departure correlates with the Hawkins Lab massacre

If Lonnie was desperate to get rid of the son he hates, and then was told that there was an unexpected delay, it would make sense for him to give up and leave town.

There’s been comments from cast and crew in the past regarding when exactly Lonnie left, but it’s never been confirmed in show.

Evidence for why I think it coincides with the massacre actually comes from the shed scene.

Joyce first mentions Will’s eighth birthday, which would have been in March of 1979. The massacre was in September of 1979.

Mentioning his eighth birthday specifically places emphasis on that age. Jonathan then follows Joyce by talking about the night dad left.

We don’t get an exact timeframe or age, but the fact that this follows the story if Will’s eighth birthday does create a correlation with that age. We then switch timeframes when Mike brings up kindergarten.

Think about it, if their dad had left when Will was eight, bringing up his age again would be redundant because Joyce just mentioned it. Mike mentions kindergarten to let us know that this is a different time and age that we’re talking about.

Let’s talk about Lonnie’s debts

What exactly these debts are that Joyce brings up is never specified. And it could be anything. Maybe a loan he took out, drug or gambling debts, since nothing is stated it’s all possible. But here’s my take:

Will is Lonnie’s debt. That’s what he owes.

Remember that the exact way that Lonnie was going to pay back these debts was with Will. He is linked with this debt conversation.

It is Joyce who brings up the debt, but since she doesn’t specify there’s a reasonable doubt that she herself doesn’t know the specifics. She could know that Lonnie is indebted to someone but not know what/could have been lied to.

I’m imagining the lab giving Lonnie some kind of advanced payment for Will, with the promise that they’ll eventually have him. It would be a way for the lab to control Lonnie. He now owes them, and the lab expects to collect their debts. Despite the lab and Lonnie having similar goals, there is definitely a power imbalance.

Lonnie does want a family, just not one with Will in it

More thorough post here, but in season one we get indications in Lonnie's dialogue that he does want to be around his family, like expressing interest in seeing Jonathan more and calling Joyce "babe," which seems to contradict him living in another town, or hell even leaving his family at all.

When Joyce gets mad with Lonnie over the phone about not coming to visit, it was specifically a Will visitation day. It's seeming more and more that Lonnie's departure is centered on Will. (Which doesn't take away from any of the potential abuse he hurled at Jonathan or Joyce. He doesn't care about their interests, only his. Furthermore, I'm not placing blame onto Will for Lonnie's absence. That is all Lonnie's doing)

Am I saying that Lonnie has powers?

Well, maybe.

That is something that I’ve been wondering if Lonnie had powers, which granted is something that relied heavily on speculation regarding TFS which I said I wanted to stay away from for this post. Since I don’t have all the pieces yet, I want to consider as many options as possible.

Option A) Lonnie was born with powers, and MK-ULTRA was simply how he became acquainted with the lab/his powers were repressed and MK-ULTRA activated them

Option B) Lonnie received powers from MK-ULTRA and passed it on to Will

Option C) Lonnie was not born with powers nor received powers from MK-ULTRA but it did give him super-powered sperm

May I remind you of Lonnie's comparison to Terry from earlier in the post, and the fact that Terry herself does have powers.

I oftentimes see the theory that Joyce herself has powers, and I myself even theorized that her Aunt Darlene may have had powers. However I'm more inclined to believe that Joyce is a carrier of this gene rather than having powers herself. Most of the evidence used to suggest that she has powers comes from Joyce reacting to what Will is showing her. There's also no indication that Jonathan has any powers.

If Lonnie participated in MK-ULTRA after Jonathan was born, then it could explain why Will would have powers and not Jonathan. Moreover, having both a mother who is a carrier and a father with powers/nuked balls would likely have a higher chance of having a powered child. (That's how genetics work, right? Please forgive me if my science is wrong.)

Notes on Lonnie's character

You'll note that there are multiple times in this post where I acknowledge that I lot of Lonnie's actions are explainable because of his identity as a shitty guy, and maybe that's all this is. However, I want to explain why having this type of character is actually perfect for a reveal like this.

In order to pull off a successful reveal, you have to hide the truth while also giving enough information so it doesn't come out of nowhere. Lonnie's personality allows for the truth to be hidden in plain sight.

Let's say that Lonnie was actually an upstanding man. Jonathan and Joyce both had fond memories of him, but he left in the past for some unknown reason. Lonnie was always a great husband, but for some reason he's doubting Joyce and taking down her Christmas lights even when she asks him not to.

Do you see how that would create a huge plot hole? How season one would feel incomplete? How it would create a giant unanswered question that needs answering?

Why didn't Joyce know about any of this?

Unfortunately we are told pretty explicitly in season one as to why something like this could have been happening under Joyce's nose. We are told in the first episode that Joyce works long hours, leaving early in the morning and not coming home until later in the night. Jonathan is expected to get Will up, make breakfast, and take him to school. My guess is that Lonnie may have been in charge of such tasks when he was still home.

If Lonnie was, say, taking Will to the lab for some preliminary tests or meetings, he could have easily done this while Joyce was at work or while Jonathan was in school.

We even hear from Joyce herself that she hasn't been keeping up with Jonathan, she isn't in the know how with her sons. (This is not me calling Joyce a bad mother btw, this is definitely a symptom of capitalism rather than bad parenting.)

Why doesn't Will say anything?

If Will was being taken to the lab for appointments in the past, wouldn't he say something about it? Especially to El, who grew up in the lab?

Well, there's a chance that Will doesn't remember this.

Longer post here, but we are given a scene in season four where Will expresses not remembering something from his childhood very well.

Which I could write off as Will being too little to remember this small detail, but this is also coming from the same season where we just got an entire plot line about memories from El's past being erased. (El who, as I stated in the beginning, has a storyline that mirrors Will's)

The Final Timeline

Tl;dr, or, the timeline written out chronologically:

Lonnie marries Joyce and has Jonathan. Jonathan is born without powers

Lonnie becomes involved with MK-ULTRA sometime prior to Will's birth as a way to make money

Joyce and Lonnie have Will, who was born with powers

When Will is very young Lonnie knows that he has powers

Lonnie begins taking Will to the lab in hopes of curing him

Lonnie and the lab strike a deal that involve taking Will in exchange for money

There is a plan to take Will involving a fake accident. Lonnie will file a fake lawsuit in order to exchange the money and avoid suspicion

The Hawkins Lab massacre happens and the plan is delayed

Lonnie leaves

Mothergate is opened by El and Will is taken

Upon realizing that Will is in the Upside Down, the plan moves forward with Lonnie in on it

Things don't go as expected and Joyce is on to Will being alive, so the lab asks Lonnie to come home in order to help with coverup

Joyce is infuriated about the lawsuit and kicks Lonnie out

The rest of the season follows as we see on screen and the labs plan unravels, some of the personnel is killed by El and the demogorgon in the school

#lonnie byers #will byers #will byers has powers #tw child abuse #stranger things #stranger things theory #my theory #woof this is another big one #maybe giant posts like these will become my thing #okay the plan is post now but schedule a reblog for the morning to ensure traffic #maybe someday i'll talk about how owens is continuing the surveillance of will #byler #<- target audience

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saeugen · 3 months

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trust fund, baby

— in which i’m inspired by gacha life music videos LOLLLLLL 😄🙏

— not even joking btw but i love unguys also idk how to set up tumblr posts sigh

looking at you was like the rainbow after a storm. a harsh, bruising storm. you are his medicine. i mean, look at you! he doesn’t care about the dirt on your jeans. thinks it adds a little flavour, you know? anyhow, he didn’t care about the whispers and murmurs that you were just using him. heck, he’s asked you to. but that’s for another time.

in this moment where you’re fixing a car, he knows that you can fix him. tinker with him a little and he’s complete. dwelling in your presence has done enough. your oil painted hands skilfully move around, eyes concentrated as black dusts your face. he’s not sure what it is, but you look hot.

“‘toru,” you mumble, pausing as you tie your hair up. he could faint. sure he’s the strongest, but in your hands he’s putty. “mhm?” he hums in response, completely dazed. you laugh, and he falls all over again. “stop starin’ at me like you’re fawning over the simple act of fixing a car.” oh, but he is. he could watch you for a lifetime if it meant getting a glance of your perfect being.

he’s dumb for you. it really should be the other way around— just yesterday was he confessed to by… what was it? 5 girls? you’re a quiet one, though your hilariously terrifying sound of a laugh can silence an assembly of people. another thing he loves about you, he notes. he doesn’t notice when you stand up, because his mind wanders elsewhere. “‘toru.”

he blinks, and you’re in front of him.

HELP GIYS IDK WHERE IM GOING WITH THIS it’s just fluff but noniooe like satoru my mind keeping’s wandering ugh it’s 1:05 am i should go to sleep 😓😓😓

#i love big men #gojo satoru #jjk #second pov #woof woof #this is what makes us girls #jjk x reader #jjk gojo #jjk fluff #fluff #gojo x reader #gojo x you #gojo x y/n #no use of y/n #yayyy #idk man #ermmm what the scallop #okay bye

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fairywinds · 6 months

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my main cure prediction or something HEHE

truthfully i think the main cure is gonna be pink, but im still hoping for an orange main because it'd be fun. also i accidentally made her look more like a fox than a dog (?) but that's okay. also also i wanted to add more details to the outfit because it's not very interesting but im not very good at fashion LMAO

#precure #i rlly hope at least one of the cures has fangs because. it's fun #mew.jpg #i really wanted to give her short hair but also i suck at designing interesting short hairstyles #DESIGNING IN GENERAL IS SO HARD #but it's okay i think 7m still happy with this drawing #she looks silly. woof woof #OUPY MOMENT #ALSO GIRL WHY IS IT SO BLURRY

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m3lodyxo · 7 months

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*bangs my hand on the table*

WE NEED MORE BROOK FICS. FLUF, SMUT, ANGST EVEN, I DON'T CARE, JUST GIMME THAT OLD ASS BAG OF BONES.

#no i am not okay #awooga #soul king brook #brook one piece #brook x reader #soul king brook x reader #he's so fine #please hear me out #i wanna chew on him #Gnawing at them bones #Call me a dog #grrr #woof woof #tumblr sexyman #i want him #gimme those bones

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brookheimer · 1 year

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i feel very mixed on shiv's ending, particularly her choice to return to tom -- i think it makes sense from a thematic/character arc perspective and is a powerful yet devastating indictment of both shiv and the world that created her as well as showing that the cycle of abuse will always continue to cycle, that shiv will become her mother etc, but i also think it does not make sense from a character/internal logic perspective. it's a choice that makes sense from the writers, but not from shiv, not yet. it could've been a brilliant ending to her character, but is tainted for me by the less-than-ideal execution of it, which felt very rushed, making shiv's final submission to tom feel forced by the show rather than forced by the situation or honest to her character. the ending is not inherently misogynistic from the writers' side as i've seen some criticisms claim (it is a dark but real portrayal of misogyny within capitalist society and how it's internalized within the white women who end up at the hips of the CEOs who run it), but i do understand how it could feel that way. the show fails at building up to (and thus convincing us) that the version of shiv we currently know would so immediately subject herself to her mother's fate, so instead of it feeling like shiv's hand was forced by patriarchy to place herself into her worst nightmare, it instead feels like the show itself was the thing that forced shiv to take that route, which does leave a sour taste in the mouth. it doesn't feel like the result of a choice shiv would make or the impact of patriarchal society bearing down, it just feels rushed and thus wrong. shiv would've benefitted immensely from a few more episodes or even just a few scenes dedicated to teasing out her newfound willingness to subject herself to immense disrespect in order to remain close to power, but given that her entire character has always been defined by her inability to do just that unless forced to (which i don't think she was in this situation as she could've easily not waited in the car for tom, not put her hand in his, but she did), her return to tom feels hard to comprehend, and her near immediate submission to him hard to stomach.

(read more under the cut because jesus christ did this get long)

in my mind, at least, i've always understood shiv as being respect-driven rather than power-driven -- she wants power, yes, but more than anything she wants to be taken seriously and respected and seen as a legitimate player, and time and time again we've seen her blow up situations that would've been very advantageous long-term because she felt disrespected and needed to speak up and force people to take her seriously (which, ironically, typically results in the opposite). shiv's overarching goal is power, but her immediate necessity is always respect. her dignity is her number one priority at any given moment, even when it shouldn't be, even when it stops her from attaining the success and power she wants. i can kind of understand shiv going against kendall because of this -- she's always had a very, very narrow lens whenever she feels like she's being disrespected, and even though it is infinitely more humiliating for your (somewhat ex) husband to betray you and boot you out of the CEO position behind your back at the behest of your supposed closest ally (and for you to still vote for them after that!!!) than it is for you to magnanimously allow your brother to be CEO (which would publicly be seen as a choice, as telly etc said - sibs need to stand united behind one chosen CEO - rather than shiv being out of the loop and fucked to infinity), the narrowness of her vision upon seeing kendall about to win makes it impossible for her to think about that legitimately. it's not just jealousy, it's indignity: shiv feels she earned CEO through her machinations with mattson and feels genuinely sick seeing the loganified kendall grinning at the head of the table, hearing his "that's fucking right" and witnessing his cocky entitlement to the job that belonged to her. so, she does what she always does when she feels disrespected, when she feels her dignity is at stake, and impulsively blows everything to fuck, including her own best interests. that makes sense for shiv, at least somewhat -- i still think that as much as she wouldn't want ken as CEO she'd feel like at least w that outcome she'd be seen as a player and a deciding factor, whereas with mattson/tom she'd be viewed as a pathetic fucked-over nothing woman pawn etc (a situation of unparalleled indignity imo), but i can rationalize her choice to go against ken anyways as being part of the narrowed field of vision she always gets upon feeling disrespected by men in her life that makes it impossible for her to think strategically (and i guess even though the disrespect was greater and more humiliating from tom/mattson than ken, ken was the most recent most present and most lifelong source so that's all she could focus on; seeing him like logan was too much to bear). it's hard to imagine shiv publicly throwing her vote behind two men who publicly fucked her as humiliatingly as mattson and tom just did, even if the other option is kendall, but i think that's part of it -- it's fundamentally illogical, even from her disrespect-lens, because there's just something about kendall specifically being in charge that she's never been able to stomach. it's visceral and impulsive. it's not meant to make "sense." it's just what she feels she has to do to preserve her own dignity, even though it works directly against those same interests realistically. it wasn't executed very well, making it hard to entirely buy it given just how publicly humiliating the alternative is, but it can still be chalked up to her historically one-track-mind when it comes to indignity by the hands of kendall in particular. it's a last-ditch attempt for shiv to at least feel like she's maintaining her dignity, her self-respect, as counterintuitive as it actually is. it makes sense. i can stomach it.

again, shiv's fatal flaw (in logan's eyes and aside from her original sin of being a woman) has always, always been her inability to shut up and make the smart move in situations where she feels she's being disrespected or not taken seriously. if shiv stayed quiet during that dinner with the pierces, maybe she would've been logan's CEO, but no, she couldn't stop herself, she needed to feel she was being taken seriously, she burst out 'cmon, dad, just tell them it's going to be me.' she is unable to play it smart, to keep quiet, to win when winning means perceived disrespect. she's allergic to it. even on a personal level, she shoots herself in the foot constantly because of this: she is unable to let herself have the things she wants because she can't put herself in positions that open her up to disrespect and perceived inferiority. she can't be vulnerable because she needs to be respected. tom asks her if he could 'try to make love to her' in episode one of this season, and even though she clearly wants to, she says 'no, i don't think so, tom.' tom tells her he 'wants her, wants this' back in episode six, and even though she clearly wants that too, she draws back and says 'well then you shouldn't have betrayed me.' shiv is fundamentally incapable of allowing herself to remain in possibly advantageous situations when she feels at risk of being seen as lesser, of being disrespected, of being perceived as weak. that is her response to patriarchy. when patriarchal forces bear down, shiv is unable to grin and bare it -- she has a short fuse, a sharp tongue, and an inability to entertain even a second of being treated like The Woman, of being looked down upon, especially when it's for her gender. it's the one thing she cannot do, cannot let herself do, and it's why she fails to "win" over and over and over again. she shoots herself in the foot the second her patriarchy disrespect sensors tingle. she makes the wrong choice, the dumb choice, the one that makes her feel like she stood up for herself in the moment but ends up leaving her powerless and helpless in the end. that's the only explanation for why she chose to vote against kendall (the clearly better option for her long-term as she'd 1) be respected as part of the decision, as someone who helped choose the CEO rather than a Woman who got fucked over and had the door slammed in her face by her husband and close ally simply because she possessed a womb, and 2) probably be head of ATN or some other area of waystar, she'd have actual power within the company and be respected as a legitimate source of power rather than the CEO-to-be made CEO's humiliated wife -- if she was capable of making the smart, selfish choice in terms of power instead of having a hair-trigger reaction to gendered disrespect and cocky male superiority, she would have voted kendall. but she is not capable of doing that. she never has been. so she voted tom and mattson.

so what i still cannot for the life of me understand is what would compel this shiv, the one who cannot stomach indignity even when power's on the line, to immediately return to tom's side the second he beckons her, which is like five minutes after he becomes CEO (the job she was promised) by mattson (who gave it to tom instead of shiv because 'why get the baby lady if i can get the man who put the baby inside her?'). it makes perfect, cruel, devastating sense from a show perspective, and that's what most people are talking about, understandably. it's a devastating yet unavoidable, inevitable outcome. she's left with no other choice once she makes the decision against kendall, and patriarchy compels her to play the good wife to stay close to power. except, like... she does still have a choice. she does not have to go back to tom's car. she does not have to sit patiently waiting for him. she does not have to quietly congratulate him on his victory. she does not have to place her hand in his. these are all choices she made very voluntary. they're choices between maintaining her dignity and self-respect at the cost of future power versus maintaining the potential for future power at the cost of her dignity and self-respect -- the classic siobhan roy conundrum. she's been faced with it time and time again (even just five minutes prior with kendall) and she has never, not once, chosen the latter of her own volition. she hasn't been able to. that's her fatal flaw. maybe i could stomach her going back to tom if she didn't congratulate him, didn't place her hand in his when he expectantly held his out -- then some dignity would be preserved, maybe. but her complete and total submission for the sake of future power does not make sense with her lifelong inability to do just that. it makes sense that this would be her eventual endpoint, but we have seen nothing that implies shiv would so willingly subject herself to this feminine submission of wife and mother before person or source of power, to the complete and utter humiliation of being the quiet wife at the side of the man who knifed her in the back (and notably handed said knife by the man she thought her closest ally) in order to steal the job she fought for her entire life and, in her opinion, had earned. maybe she would come back to him eventually, for love or (more likely) for power, but it is incredibly hard to believe that shiv 'impulsive when faced with indignity' roy would be capable of immediately and publicly playing the role of the good wife after such intense and public humiliation at the hands of her husband.

really, the way i feel about the shiv ending is similar to how i feel about the daenerys ending -- unlike most people, i really wasn't that against the daenerys outcome. i thought it made a lot of sense and was interesting, devastating, and fascinating. i thought there had been a few signs all along and that that ending for her would make sense and be far more interesting than a Hooray ! Girlboss ! ending. however, it was poorly executed -- it was rushed. it did not make sense from where daenerys was at that point in the text. it could've worked, it could've worked brilliantly, but it needed more time to build and fester in order for her ultimate turn to feel earned rather than forced for the sake of the point the writers wanted to make. that's kind of how i feel about shiv. i get the ending and i don't think it's inherently bad or misogynistic or anything, but it feels like the writers saw the possibility for a shiv 'mommed' ending and immediately took it, with little regard to what actually made sense for shiv herself to do in that moment. outcome > character. that's frustrating for me particularly for succession because my like number one reason for adoring succession as much as i do is their consistent refusal to operate the way most media does (using the characters as instruments to achieve the plot/outcome the writers want), instead prioritizing following the characters themselves in a way that feels honest and real. it's character-driven, not plot or ending driven. i think that this fell by the wayside a few times in the latter half of this season simply because there was so much that needed to happen in such a short space of time (especially during the finale), but in my opinion, at least, the most egregious case is shiv. given more time, more development, more build-up, the last shot of her hand in tom's would've struck the chord the writers wanted it to -- and for some people, it did anyways! but for me, it rang out and fell nauseatingly flat. it felt hollow and wrong and unearned. shiv could end up becoming her mother, that feels entirely possible, but not in this particular sense, not yet. in what world would siobhan roy willingly choose to be seen as nothing more than a woman hanging off her husband's arm, especially when said husband had publicly humiliated her and ruined her entire life just five minutes prior? when, just five (metaphorical) minutes prior, she was the one poised to be CEO and everyone knew it? when now everyone will see her on tom's arm and whisper and gawk? she has become her worst fear, yes, but unlike kendall, it does not feel earned. it does not feel like she has actually become her worst fear. it feels like the show forced her to. not patriarchy or the situation or her own desire for power, but the show itself. that's what feels so shitty.

i wouldn't necessarily call the writing misogynistic as a result of this, as it's less a flaw of misogyny and more a flaw of bad, rushed writing that could happen to any character. it's the same as with daenerys -- although (somewhat unlike succession) there were many, many aspects of GoT's writing that were deeply misogynistic, especially in the last season (just look at fucking brienne), the core issue with the daenerys plotline is not one of misogyny but of time. they did not give daenerys the time needed to become the version of herself seen burning down the city. that could've easily been a focus of previous episodes, but it wasn't. they simply did not develop her enough for that turn to make sense yet. it could make sense, hypothetically, at some point down the line, but at that point it felt sudden, off-putting, and wrong. shiv could easily become her mother. that's been made evident especially regarding her relationship to pregnancy/children, love, and vulnerability (or the lack thereof). but for this ending to make sense, we would have needed to see signs of shiv imitating her mother's willingness to be relegated to the sidelines, to bring out the food while the men eat and make deals, in order to remain tangential to power. that is a concession shiv roy had never been willing to make prior to the last five minutes of the entire show. other signs of shiv imitating caroline or falling prey to patriarchal norms throughout the show are not enough to undo shiv's fundamental refusal to weather gender-related indignity even when doing so would benefit her. in my opinion, that's why the final five minutes of shiv's plotline were so unsatisfying.

shiv could become her mother, and her ending could be a devastating portrayal of the inability for even rich white women to escape their original sin of being a woman in a man's world, as well as a dark, ironic criticism of both women like shiv and the patriarchal world that breeds them into existence. but because the show did not develop shiv in this particular direction and because her entire character thus far has been defined by her self-destructive insistence on being respected at all costs, shiv's ending did not land the way it could've, or should've.

#WOOF okay this was long. not even gonna read it over bc if i do i'll never stop editing to it or adding to it and god knows no one needs tht #so if it's shit well. forgive me #but yeah this is just my take. i felt really unhappy w shiv's ending but didn't quite know why because the ending itself i can imagine bein #fine with but really i just feel very frustrated by the show writing over any agency she would normally have had in order to make their #point by the time the episode ended #honestly the more i think about it the more i feel this season should've had more episodes -- i think another season after this one would b #GREAT for me personally obviously but unnecessary for the show itself and possibly too much of a good thing #but at the same time the latter half of this season could really have benefitted from a little wiggle room and space to develop #so it wasn't just Sudden Mattson Likes Tom or Wait Did Mencken Disappear or Remember Roman's Sexuality or SHIV FUCKING SHIIIIV lolllll #ok. this is too long. post #succession #succession spoilers #long post #and i mean LONG #should i do a read more? i never know what the like courtesy is lmao #well . yall asked for it so here u go #shiv roy #succession meta #i guess #edit i did a read more this is disgusting LOLOL #100 #casey shut the fuck up about shiv roy

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bromcommie · 21 days

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I would not change it each time (heaven is not fit to house a love like you and I)

#woof. okay #hozier made me unwell again #I am SO sorry for including endgame. going back to pretending it didn't happen immediately #tumblr stop fucking over full resolution on upload unless people click on the image 2024 challenge #stevebucky #stevebucky edit #stucky edit #captain america edit #my edits #graphics

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varilien · 2 years

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it doesn’t matter how heavy your cross to bear is; you can still smile!

#trigun #trigun fanart #trigun stampede #wolfwood #nicholas d. wolfwood #screencap redraw #SAW WOOF. GOT DRUNK. MADE ART. BON APPETIT LMAO #extremely concerned about him why are your clothes so small sir explain yourself. someone feed this fishbone of a man #he did NOT have to fucking say this oh my god i already know it's gonna hurt so bad later. woof honey ur killing me #he looks sooooo skeevy and for why?? silly lil guy. lil bit unhinged. i love him he's silly.#AND MERYL SHE LOOKS SOOOOO GOOD OH MY GOD??#milly sweetie i'm so sorry i'm so sorry you got replaced with DE NIRO FHDKJFHDKHFD #(gesturing vaguely but emphatically) i have a lot of feelings most of them pretty good actually idk what else to say lmao #mildly concerned woof is gonna turn out to be a kid purely because of the ill-fitting clothing and the LOLLIPOP #but that's just cuz i love him don't get it twisted i just want godo things for him and going through All That as NOT AN ADULT #is like. so sad actually it HURTS PLEASE DON'T DO THIS TO HIM #okay that's all :) goodnight

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stevethehairington · 2 years

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When Eddie was a child, his mother used to sing to him all the time.

She’d sing to him when she tucked him in for bed at night. As she made him breakfast in the mornings. When he was helping her fold the laundry. On their walks home from school. As they danced together to whatever record was spinning in the living room.

The songs she would sing varied — lots of folksy, bluesy stuff. Some poppier things thrown in too. A couple of rougher, tougher songs Eddie really liked the sound of.

But there was one song in particular she would sing to him whenever he was feeling particularly frightened or upset: “You Are My Sunshine”.

After he fell off of his bike and skinned both of his knees and the palms of his hand, she would patch him up with bandaids, kiss the booboos better, and sing it to him until his tears were dry and he was smiling again.

When it was stormy — clouds roiling angrily, thunder clapping loud and booming, lightning crackling bright and brilliant across the sky — she would wrap him up in a blanket, tuck him into her side on the sofa, and sing it softly to him until he wasn’t even worried about the storm anymore.

Near the end, when she was stuck in a hospital bed, hooked up to all those big scary machines, with tubes and wires everywhere, she would let Eddie climb onto her bed (even though the nurses scolded her for it), and she would gather him up in her arms and sing it to him until all he remembered of her was her gentle voice and her kind smile.

After she passed, the song became something of a comfort to Eddie. Something he would sing to himself, quietly under his breath, whenever he was scared. Whenever he was upset. Whenever he was hurting.

“What is that?” Steve asks, sneaking up on Eddie in a way he should know better than to do by now, lest he end up with another broken bottle to his throat.

Eddie startles, soft humming cutting off sharply as he turns, big wild eyes stuck on Steve. “Huh?”

“That song you were singing — what is it?” Steve asks, lowering himself to the ground beside Eddie. He sits close. Close enough that his knee presses into Eddie’s thigh when he crosses his legs beneath him. He doesn't move away.

The fight or flight settles, adrenaline dipping back down, and some of that frantic edge dissipates. Eddie’s shoulders sag a little and he blows out a careful breath. He glances at Steve from the corner of his eye, sees that Steve is already looking back. Waiting for an answer. “Oh,” Eddie says, “uh, ‘You Are My Sunshine’,” he tells him. “It’s uh— my mom used to sing it to me. Before— before,” he finishes lamely, not quite wanting to get into all of that here. With Steve. Maybe someday, but not today. He picks at a loose thread in the knee of his jeans. “I, um, I sing it when I’m y’know,” he waves his hand nebulously towards their surroundings.

“A wanted fugitive hiding out in some shitty old boathouse that, frankly, smells like ass?” Steve fills in.

That gets Eddie to crack a smile, pulls a tiny little snuffle of a laugh from him. “I was going to say scared,” he admits.

“Oh,” Steve says.

“It helps,” Eddie tells him. Shrugs one shoulder. “Makes me feel better. At least a little.”

Steve nods, a serious look on his face. Like this is important stuff. “How does it go?” He asks.

Another laugh tumbles out of Eddie’s mouth. “How does it— are you asking me to sing it? To you?”

“Yeah, come on,” Steve encourages. “Let’s hear it.”

If it was anyone else, in any other circumstance, Eddie probably would’ve told them to fuck off. But there’s something about Steve Harrington. Something that makes him cave almost immediately. He clears his throat, sitting up a little straighter. He doesn’t look at Steve as he opens his mouth — he’s not quite brave enough for that. But he sings to him anyways.

“You are my sunshine, my only sunshine. You make me happy, when skies are gray. You’ll never know dear, how much I love you. Please don’t take my sunshine away.”

“You have a nice voice,” Steve says, when Eddie finishes. Knocks his shoulder into Eddie’s. Smiles at him.

Eddie’s mouth tugs up against his will, and tugs at his hair, pulling it across his mouth to hide the evidence and the pleased flush that colors his cheeks. “Thanks,” he tells Steve.

“That’s a really nice song, too,” Steve adds. “I see why you like it.”

“Yeah,” Eddie says, not really knowing what else to say after he’s pretty much bared his soul to this guy.

“I’ll have to remember that one.”

When they find Dustin and Eddie, it’s too late.

Dustin is there, crumpled to his knees, bent over Eddie’s body where it lies on the cold, hard ground amidst a sea of lifeless bat carcasses. He doesn’t look up until he hears Steve and the girls getting close. When he does, his face is streaked with dirt, with blood, with tears.

“Steve,” Dustin cries, and Steve has never heard him so distraught. The panic rises within him, a surge so strong it pushes him forward, sprinting the last few feet between them until he can fall to Dustin’s side.

“Steve you have to help him, you have to help him,” Dustin begs. “He’s— Eddie— it’s bad, it’s really bad. I can’t— I don’t know if— Steve, please.”

There’s bile in the back of Steve’s throat, as he looks down at Eddie, and an ice cold dread that’s right behind it. Oh god, he can’t be— please say he isn’t—

“Harrington?” Eddie breathes, and Steve has never felt a relief as strong as this one.

He’s alive, he’s still alive.

Only — it’s bad. It’s really fucking bad. His body is… it’s torn up. There’s no other way to describe it. His clothes have been shredded, and beneath them Steve can see the gashes in his abdomen, twin to Steve’s only so much deeper, so much worse. His chest is shredded. His arms are missing chunks. The right side of his face is—

Steve can’t look. Doesn’t want to look.

There’s so much blood, too much blood, and it’s everywhere. Hot and wet and sticky all over Eddie’s body. Pooling against his exposed skin, welling from his wounds and dripping to the ground beneath him. It’s smeared across his face, covering his hands, spewing from his mouth as he tries to talk.

“Harrington,” Eddie repeats, more sure as his unfocused eyes zero in on him.

“Eddie,” Steve says. “Hey, hey, yeah, it’s me. It’s Steve, I’m here,” he says, hovering over him. He doesn’t know what to do to help. He doesn’t know how to stop the bleeding. He doesn’t know where to start. “You’re gonna be okay,” he tells him, even though he doesn’t know. “We’re gonna get you outta here, I’m gonna get you outta here, and you’re going to be just fine.”

“Nah, man, m’not,” Eddie laughs then, more of a wheeze than anything, and there’s blood in his teeth when he smiles at Steve, “m’not gonna make it,” he slurs. “This is… this is it, Steve.”

“No, Eddie, no, come on,” Steve says, shaking his head. “I can— we can get you out of here. I can carry you. It’s— we’ll get you out, we’ll get you help.”

Eddie’s fingers squeeze weakly around Steve’s wrist. He thinks it’s probably supposed to be some sort of comforting gesture, but it doesn’t do its job. “Not gonna… last,” Eddie says, letting his head loll sluggishly from side to side.

And Steve can see that he’s right. He doesn’t want him to be right.

“Jus’ stay with me,” Eddie says. “Jus’ stay till the end.”

Steve squeezes his eyes shut, nostrils flaring as he tries to breathe through it. As he tries not to let the tears fall yet. He can’t. Not right now. Not in front of Eddie. He needs to be strong for him. When he opens them again, Eddie’s foggy stare is still trained on him, waiting for his answer.

“I will,” he tells Eddie. “I’ll stay. I’m not leaving you,” he promises.

Eddie smiles again, a tiny twitch of the left corner of his mouth. The right side nothing more than torn up skin and too much blood.

“Good,” Eddie whispers, eyes straying. “Good.”

Steve grips onto Eddie’s hand, holds it tight enough that it would probably hurt, if the rest of his body wasn’t already screaming in pain all at once too. He swallows down the heavy lump in his throat, and reaches up to brush some of Eddie’s hair from his face. It’s tacky with blood, matted together and sticking to his skin, but Steve tucks it back behind his ear as best as he can.

“Hey,” he says, gets Eddie to fix those fuzzy eyes back on him again. “I’ve got you,” Steve tells him. “I’ve got you, it’s going to be okay.”

And then he starts to sing.

“You are my sunshine, my only sunshine,” Steve warbles, and he doesn’t miss the recognition flash in Eddie’s eyes. The heavy exhale he lets go. The faint squeeze of his fingers around Steve’s.

“You make me happy, when skies are gray.” Steve tries to be as careful as he can, as he takes Eddie into his own arms. As he cradles him to his chest. As he holds him close.

“You’ll never know dear, how much I love you.” Steve throat is thick, voice shaking so bad as he tries to hold himself together. As he tries to bring Eddie as much comfort as he can. Just like his mother did.

“Please don’t take my sunshine away,” Steve finishes with a half sob, and a ghost of a smile crosses over Eddie’s face, before it slips away.

Steve feels Eddie’s hand go limp in his.

He holds his breath. Waits. One. Two. Three.

Nothing.

Eddie’s chest stays still, not even a barely there hint of movement. His eyes are glazed, unblinking.

Steve brushes his hand over his eyelids, closing them. Bends down to press a kiss to his forehead.

Then he buries his face into Eddie’s hair, and he finally lets himself cry.

#steddie #steve harrington #eddie munson #stranger things #mcd #hahahahahahahah i am so sorry #listen. i just. i was watching a documentary on charlie cullen and they played this hella haunting version of 'you are my sunshine'#and this immediately popped into my head and i just. had to get it out. i had to.#it is almost 4 am so i am. WOOF. i am feeling this one #i cried writing this okay?#anyways. IM SORRY #(if this is a total flop i will just delete it in the morning LOL)#mack writes #macks ficlets

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