just-late-roman-republic-things

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

Pietro Aretino has one hell of a job description

He was an Italian what

Holy shit

I love him already

New favorite poet and role model

#i can't even blame him for the blackmailing because it looks like his targets were corrupt aristocrats anyway. absolute icon #be the pietro aretino you want to see in the world #just roman memes #jlrrt speaks #pietro aretino #italian history #poets

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

>My face when I devote my life to stoic bare-chested virtue and my biographer models my portrait after fucking Bacchus

Even those outlying images followed the same numismatic format, sometimes based on real specimens of coinage, sometimes imaginatively (or mistakenly) adapted. One of the most engaging mistakes is an image of the god Bacchus, taken from a coin, passing for the portrait of the Roman Republican politician, and Julius Caesar’s adversary, Cato the Younger.

(Twelve Caesars: Images of Power, by Mary Beard)

#jlrrt reads #cato the younger #bacchus #mary beard #coins #twelve caesars: images of power #just roman memes

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

Carry yourself with the confidence of that one archaeologist who found a weirdly-shaped bust of some generic Roman and concluded that A) this was actually Julius Caesar, and B) the sculpture wasn't damaged, Caesar just had a weirdly-shaped head:

(Twelve Caesars: Images of Power, by Mary Beard)

#jlrrt reads #julius caesar #mary beard #twelve caesars: images of power

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

hey so that Wow Platinum character played by a blond aubrey plaza dressed as a bomb shell. clodia?

#clodia metelli #or so i hope #her <3

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

some stills that i am very normal about from the megalopolis trailer

#nice #megalopolis

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erich gruen's use of adjectives is something that can actually be so personal

#tag yourself i'm reckless ambitious and perverse #erich gruen #the last generation of the roman republic

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

What’s your opinion—do you think there are ACTUALLY parallels between the late Roman Republic and contemporary America, or do you think that is too ahistorical to stand up to scrutiny? I’m torn personally, curious for your thoughts

I'd be shocked if there weren't. The US constitution is loosely based on the Roman republic's government. And the republic lasted so long - about 500 years, by traditional accounts - that there's a massive log of potential similarities to cherry-pick from.

However. That does not mean the USA is "going down the same path" as Rome did. For one thing, history doesn't have a logical path. We see only the version of events that we remember happening. Not the version that actually happened. Not the versions that were equally likely, but didn't happen.

Robert Morstein-Marx deconstructs this in Julius Caesar and the Roman People, a book that is as much about analyzing how we "create" history through our own biases, expectations and cultural baggage, as it is about Julius Caesar himself. He first points out that the Roman republic might not have been "falling apart" just before Caesar's civil war, and that we might have merely been looking at evidence that supports that narrative because we have the benefit of hindsight.

(RMM, Julius Caesar and the Roman People, p.19)

We don't pay much attention to the numerous times the end of the republic could have been averted. Caesar and Pompey nearly reached a peace settlement before their civil war broke out, and only Cato's interference stopped it. Caesar almost died at Dyrrhachium, whereupon the Pompeians would have retaken Rome. Octavian couldn't have taken control of Italy if not for the bizarre coincidence of both his superior officers dying in quick succession. Even as late as 14 CE, Tiberius attempted to return some power to the Senate, and he might've succeeded if not for his incredibly poor communication skills.

(RMM, Julius Caesar and the Roman People, p.14)

Also, Americans tend to focus on the end of the republic, because we are afraid of our own democracy being undermined. This impulse is understandable. But we don't think about how much turmoil the republic survived for 500 years. Machiavelli devoted chapters of Discourses on Livy trying to figure out why the republic didn't break down sooner. (I won't go into his answer here, but among other things, he's hilariously pro-rioting. For any reason, no matter how stupid. Keeps the government on its toes, you see.)

If we look at Roman history through the lens of our own time, we are likely to misunderstand what really happened. That can be dangerous. The American founding fathers were afraid of an "American Julius Caesar" subverting democracy, so they studied history...concluded the problem was that Caesar was too popular with the masses...and reduced the power of the popular vote by giving us the goddamn electoral college.

Looking for parallels can be fun. I've been mentally comparing Cato the Younger to certain politicians while reading about him. But don't take it too seriously.

Also, Julius Caesar and the Roman People is a great look into how the "sausage" of historical narratives is made - sometimes at the expense of the truth.

#reblogging because i suspect the megalopolis film will bring on another wave of usa-rome comparisons #and political commentators on all sides like to twist history to suit their own arguments (often at expense of the truth) #there's plenty to criticize about the usa and reasons to worry about the future #but i love history for its own sake. not just as a funhouse mirror or cautionary tale for my own culture #who knows? maybe the film will get more people interested in the historical figures behind it too! #historiography #politics #btw the electoral college is the reason george w. bush and trump got into the white house despite losing the popular vote #it's a problem!!

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

is th. is this clodius and a bodyguard who looks l. looks like a cl. a clow

#i sure hope so #publius clodius pulcher #megalopolis #just roman memes

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

i need the colleen mccullough posthumous megalopolis novelisation i need it IMMEDIATELY colleen colleen show me. catilina!!!!!!

#SAME #colleen mccullough #megalopolis #catiline

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

I... have you seen the news about Francis Ford Coppola's new film Megalopolis, or rather more specifically, EXACTLY what it's based on?!? I'm singularly going insane over here, please go read the summary/character list on Wikipedia for a good laugh/absolute blindside.

cato the younger hooting and hollering like a chimpanzee that just did a line of coke at the thought of somebody named "caesar catiline"

#everything i see about this makes me want to watch it more #i hope 'general bewilderment' is the vibe i can inspire one day... #megalopolis #just roman memes

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

absolutely devastated i cant see this 'batshit crazy' film with my beautiful mutuals when it comes out

#devastated i can't dig up all the historical figures named in it and force them to watch with us #megalopolis #just roman memes

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

do you ever read a sentence so beautiful

#you did it! you found a way to make caesar even more annoying! #megalopolis #just roman memes

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

*in the tone of jesse we need to cook* mi rufe we need to commit legal malpractice

#marcus caelius rufus #cicero #just roman memes

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

I'm so used to Roman naming conventions that when I saw this I wondered what the heck had happened between Caesar and Cicero in this timeline.

I... have you seen the news about Francis Ford Coppola's new film Megalopolis, or rather more specifically, EXACTLY what it's based on?!? I'm singularly going insane over here, please go read the summary/character list on Wikipedia for a good laugh/absolute blindside.

cato the younger hooting and hollering like a chimpanzee that just did a line of coke at the thought of somebody named "caesar catiline"

#dead of laughter #i can't pick a favorite #i want to revive sallust and force him to watch this #megalopolis #just roman memes #francis ford coppola #movies

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

out of curiosity then, what are caesar's economic policies? if you don't mind getting into them. i know a little bit about him because i took gcse latin at school, but nothing beyond "big army cross rubicon, invade rome, be dictator, get stabbed"

i'll be upfront about this, this is a really vast and complex topic and i don't have the time or the resources at hand to answer appropriately at the moment. i will just elaborate on what i meant in my previous post a little further.

the main point is that post-civil war caesar was essentially a conservative. his policies were most definitely conservative and reframing him as some sort of hero of the people is inaccurate at best and harmful at worse (it often feeds into the idea that authoritarian power can empower the people if the ruler is benevolent enough). it's also worth mentioning that rome was a bloody and violent imperialist statal entity that relied on slavery and subjugation to exist, and caesar was a VERY active agent in it. so, again, you cannot divorce anything he did from this context anyway

btw this isn't a good vs. bad situation (they're all bad), so hailing the liberatores as protectors of freedom or whatever is also risible (again. slavery-based empire. whose freedom was that exactly). this said the assassination was really funny and honestly deserved

#the point about authoritarianism is especially important #unchecked power is a problem no matter who holds it #julius caesar #historiography

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

It's such a delight to see that goofy nerd kitsch is eternal. I'm never apologizing for my crocheted Cato the Yarnier or Ra Ra Julie C. song ever again.

(Twelve Caesars: Images of Power, by Mary Beard)

#jlrrt reads #mary beard #twelve caesars: images of power

[just-late-roman-republic-things]

Mary Beard estimates that around 25,000 to 50,000 portraits of Octavian were made during or near his lifetime, not including cameos and coins:

(Twelve Caesars: Images of Power, by Mary Beard)

#jesus burgerflipping christ dude #this is the number one reason why i keep making fun of him #mary beard #twelve caesars: images of power #jlrrt reads