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ruby-phoenix · 7 months

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A lot of people say that Sasuke was always an ass to Karin. But, how many times was normal Sasuke "rude" to her?

NOTE: THE QUESTION REFERS SOLELY TO PRE-DARKNESS SASUKE. AKA, IT TALKS ABOUT SASUKE AND HIS USUAL DYNAMIC WITH KARIN.

The first thing worth pointing out about this is that when Sasuke wants to be rude (or rather, when Sasuke does not give a damn) Sasuke is rude. There are no in-between; the guy is “stay out of my business”, “shut up”, etc rude. He can be, quite literally, a total ass.

But pre-Kage Summit Sasuke (aka, the usual Sasuke) never reacted in such a way to Karin; and there were a myriad of occasions in which Karin’s words and behavior could have granted her that kind of response. But in all those instances of “he could have” - Sasuke didn’t.

Before addressing them however, I will focus on talking about the instances that people use to justify Sasuke ‘being rude to Karin all the time’. And first of all, it so happens that 2 (Chapter 348 & 380) of the aforementioned instances happen to be mistranslations. Or rather, liberal translations.

To read about them (and please do so, so that the rest of the post makes sense to you), go HERE and click on the spoiler-tag.

Now that they have been addressed, and that we’re left with a single instance of normal Sasuke being rude to Karin, I can move onto the point I wanted to make; that is, the reason why I frankly do not consider it [that single instance] worth fretting over and do not hold it against him.

It’s because, taking into consideration the fact that the number of times when Sasuke just lets Karin do as she wishes and does not reply to her with any rudeness (even though in quite a few of those instances he did arguably have reasons to do so) far outnumber it.

Like:

The moment Sasuke goes to recruit her. He goes out of his way to even tell her “I need you” and Karin goes tsundere on his ass, “Huh?! Why Should I go with you?!”, “I still refuse! I’m under no obligation to follow your orders, you know!!”

And what does the guy do?

Plus, he actually takes into account what Karin said! lol He needs her; her ability is the vital piece that would make his revenge mission all that much easier. But since “Karin felt so strongly about it”, Sasuke was willing to let her be and go and find someone else. Even though beforehand, Sasuke had clearly stated to Suigetsu that he was perfectly aware of the fact that:

“[I admit that] there are plenty of strong shinobi that I could have recruited… but Karin’s got unique abilities. I need her.”

Then we have stuff like this:

Or this;

lol it’s funny because actually, when it comes to rudeness: Karin is rude to Sasuke almost all the time! lol aka, way more often than Sasuke is rude to her (which rarely if ever happens) lololol Heck, in that very last panel, Karin is the only one from Hebi that does not bring Sasuke any kind of info about Itachi or Akatsuki; and what does Sasuke do? nothing. He does not look down on her or lecture her or get angry about it; nothing. Not to mention that the ‘you’ she uses is extremely rude; 'teme’ aka, 'bastard’ lol

And speaking about nothing; we also have stuff like these:

Where Karin’s dislike for Suigetsu manifests itself, and Sasuke? Sasuke let’s her be. Before this panel, back in Chapter 349, there was this, for example, among others; Karin lashes out at Suigetsu and what does Sasuke do? Nothing.

Then in Chapter 350 Karin even tricks Suigetsu into going the wrong way, when Sasuke clearly wanted the three of them to go to Juugo together; and what does Sasuke do? Nothing. He plays along and lets Karin guide him to Juugo lol

The contrast is clearly drawn in Chapter 352 (which we bring up all the time, I know); Suigetsu annoys Karin and what does Sasuke do?

Why,

He reminds Suigetsu that he had already told him to cooperate with Karin! When has Sasuke ever asked Karin to cooperate with Suigetsu? Hell one page later Karin is the one to bait Suigetsu, and Suigetsu is the one who gets the warning from Sasuke! lol And when Karin beats the shit out of Suigetsu you do not see Sasuke asking her to stop or to 'cooperate with him’, do you?

Nope. (lol poor sui. no wonder the guy enjoys cockblocking them)

I happen to believe this kind of thing - which is constant, matters more than the couple of isolated instances where (normal) Sasuke’s responses to Karin can be questioned. After all, it is the consistent and constant natures and overtones present in a dynamic those that shape it up, rather than the exceptions.

Of course, things take a turn for the worst after the Kage Summit; but Sasuke’s behavior there can hardly be accounted as the 'typical’ way he behaves around Karin, or his Team. Because there was nothing typical about his character at all during that arc, starting by the way he went for the kill rather than avoiding the vitals, as he used to do. It does not excuse him, of course it does not.

But it in no way discards the fact that before that; before Sasuke jumped headfirst into Darkness, there was no 'rudeness’ from Sasuke’s side in his usual dynamic with Karin.

Aaaaand I rest my case lol granted, we all have different views on what constitutes as a 'rude’ response and what doesn’t; but my overall point (aka, that very last paragraph right there) still stands, IMO.

Posted by Kanae @ Ice&Spice FC in April, 2012 in response to a question made by NAwsomeness13

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ruby-phoenix · 7 months

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Stating FACTS are giving piece of information based on evidence without bias

A post at the anti sasukarin tag had something like this written: YOUR ARGUMENTS VS FACTS. But the thing is, when I read it, it was all just about SK ARGUMENTS/CLAIMS VS THAT PERSON’S ARGUMENT. And guess what, it’s not surprising that it was someone who ships SS.

Anyway, I’m not going to rant about that person or argue with that person but I’ll mention things from his/her post. I’m just going to point out what the FACTS really are and address things concerning SasuKarin and the ever changing stand of some SS fans towards it. No bashing because I HATE bashing, especially pointless bashing, it’s shallow and immature.

1. THE SMILE IS SPECIAL.

SHOW ME A MANGA CAP (CAUSE THE MANGA IS CANON) WHEREIN SASUKE SMILED TO SAKURA OR ANY OTHER PERSON OUTSIDE HIS FAMILY.

This smile should not be questioned at all. This is a pure smile. Sasuke smirks, that’s what he mostly does. In this panel, if you look at it clearly and if you pay attention there are no creases on his brows, they’re straight, and his face is relaxed. Body language, right? A REAL SMILE. We are not talking about laughing at jokes, that is not the point. The point is he smiled.

Sasuke saved Naruto and Sakura numerous times, of course, they’re his teammates. Now, saving a girl you don’t know, that’s a big why there. Why would he save her? Because he wants her scroll? He could have just let her get killed by the bear to take it. This is a do or die test. It shouldn’t have mattered to him if she died. She’s not his teammate, if anything else she’s a competitor against their team. It would have been better if she died. But no, he saved her.

Sasuke saved her because he was still a good person at that time. Would he do that for other competitors? No, unless they weren’t a threat like her. He saw she needed help, she was crying, she looked like she couldn’t defend herself against that bear, she was helpless. She looked like she wasn’t even properly trained. He wouldn’t have saved her if she was a threat, but because he saw no harm in her and he could probably just take the scroll from her without a fight afterwards, he saved her, because it was the right thing to do. He saved her because he was good.

But there’s an even bigger WHY here. Why did he smile at her?

Because he’s amused? No. Sasuke smirks when he is amused.

Now the reason for this smile is something that only Kishi knows. That smile is a hint for something and Kishi had intended for readers to think about it.

I’m NOT saying Sasuke is in love with her or they’re destined to be, what I’m stating is THIS MOMENT IS SPECIAL AND IT WAS INTENDED TO BE SPECIAL BY THE MANGAKA/AUTHOR. It’s even used as a flashback for a person who was about to die, reminiscing a precious memory.

2. KAGUTSUCHI IS TRIGGERED BY KARIN’S ALMOST DEATH.

It’s not a team Taka moment. The Taka moment is when Sasuke remembered Team 7. He remembered Team 7 because he felt that his concern for Taka is a lot like his concern for Team 7, Taka has turned into something that has meaning to him - not just a group of people he took with him to be his underlings, and I’ve got a whole lot of thing to say about Taka but I’m going to write that on a different post because that’s a different topic altogether. The team Taka moment was when Sasuke used Amaterasu because they’re losing, and he doesn’t want to endanger his teammates anymore.

He saved Karin. He did something for Karin. He would probably do the same for Suigetsu and Juugo but not with the same amount of feeling because according to Tobi, she’s his favorite.

Kagutsuchi is for Karin. He almost LOST her. This panels shows it. Chapter 619 explains how it happened.

And so, this FACE OF ANGUISH, the MERE MENTION OF NAME (Karin, in bold kanji), the PANIC, and Sasuke’s PROFOUND DESPERATION is a SasuKarin moment.

Kagutsuchi is a power borne out of his desperation to save Karin, yes, his teammate, a SPECIAL teammate who he said he NEEDS.

Also, IF she is just a tool to him because of her powers, then he would have just let her die at this moment. WHY WASTE TIME, AND CHAKRA, AND RISK YOUR LIFE FOR AN INDISPENSABLE TOOL? Because he needed her at the moment or he didn’t have anyone else to replace her at the moment? Highly unlikely. Sasuke might be single-minded at times and can be easily swayed by his emotions (he has them, but most of the time they’re anger) but he isn’t a fool. Don’t underestimate him. Again, why would he risk his life?

And again, I’m NOT saying Sasuke is in love with her or they’re destined to be, what I’m stating is THIS MOMENT IS SPECIAL, SASUKE DISCOVERED A NEW POWER FOR A REASON, AND IT WAS INTENDED BY KISHI THAT KARIN WAS THE ONE TO ALMOST DIE, WHICH MAKES HER SPECIAL. It’s called writer’s intent.

If the only reason is to awaken a new power and show Sasuke’s relationship to Taka and how it’s similar with Team 7, Kishi could have used Suigetsu or Juugo as the defining character, but he didn’t because they haven’t amounted to that as much as Karin does to Sasuke.

And what? Because she’s a girl? It’s more heroic that way? She’s weak? etc, etc, etc. Sakura is the girl. Sasuke isn’t the heroic type, not in Part 2. Kishi doesn’t see Karin as weak. Naruto is not a girl and he isn’t weak, but he was always the one used to define Sasuke’s reactions in most of Team 7’s dynamic.

Sasuke had a special bond with Naruto. (He severed them.)

Sasuke also has a special bond with Karin.

He is not in love with either of them. Nor is he in love with anybody.

Special is the right word to use, for Karin and Naruto.

3. SASUKE ENTERED TRUE DARKNESS ONLY WHEN HE STABBED KARIN. HE SACRIFICED HER.

SACRIFICE MEANS GIVING UP SOMETHING IMPORTANT.

Who was important here? Guess what, it's Karin.

Kishi wrote in the manga: SASUKE SACRIFICES KARIN FOR HIS REVENGE AND ENTERS TRUE DARKNESS…

Proofs that Sasuke hasn’t fallen into darkness completely up until that moment:

He cared for Taka. He was concerned for their lives.

He didn’t want to kill unnecessarily. He spared the lives of Orochimaru’s prisoners, even those with the cursed seal.

Karin can sense his chakra becoming cold and dark only when they started chasing Danzo. She kept noting on the changes.

And again, Kishi used Karin as a defining character. Sasuke turned into the darkness and was willing to sacrifice even his special teammate, whom which at a point he risked his life to save. It meant he really went that low.

Kishi could have used a different scenario. Sakura or Naruto could have arrived earlier, or Juugo or Suigetsu who were left to the enemies came, and became the sacrifice. Or a different development altogether wherein Sasuke kills Danzo without needing Karin to be sacrificed, but then will still kill Karin and everyone who comes into the scene because he has turned completely evil and he doesn’t need a reason to kill anybody. There are a lot of ways to send a character to descent into darkness but this is what Kishi chose to do. Again, writer’s intent.

This isn’t a romantic SasuKarin moment per se. But this is a moment that indicates that Karin is important to Sasuke. The word sacrifice isn’t used for a tool.

The plot twists, the scenarios, the hints, even the comic reliefs are there for a reason. They’re all because of writer’s intent. He wants to show you something.

Kishi loves hinting, comic relief, plot twists, and foreshadowing. Especially, foreshadowing. Not to forget trolling too.

The next is supposed to be about the apology but I’m going to write something longer for that in a separate post.

The apology that has never been given by Sasuke to anyone except for Karin is being taken lightly. That in itself just calls for attention.

And so, before I wrap this up, I’d like to indicate statements that are rather contradictory to each other.

Note that the part where Kagutsuchi was awakened happened before Sasuke’s fall into darkness.

This:

Okay,what exactly type of person do you think Sasuke is? By saying that you have no respect towards Sasuke as a person and a shinobi. She was his TEAMMATE,of course he’d stop his Amaterasu flames from burning her.He may be an asshole and an avenger but he is not a bad man.

And this:

-Sasuke entered fase of darkness when he stabbed Karin which means he cared a lot for her ! C’mon SasuKarin shippers,you know better than that.Sasuke entered fase of darkness once his clan was killed by Itachi. This was just a point where he was going truly mad,to the point where he would stab his own teammate(teammate,not a lover) in order to defeat the person he hated.

If Sasuke had entered the phase of darkness when their clan was killed by Itachi, then Sasuke wouldn’t have saved Karin or Naruto or Sakura ever. If he had indeed entered the phase of darkness from that point on, then he would not have done any self-sacrificing actions and would have been a bad man.

After Itachi killed their clan, Sasuke was alone. That was not darkness. That was loneliness, torment, misery, and anger. Sasuke was suffering, and was burdened to avenge his clan. He felt like he had no right or reason to be happy until he has fulfilled his purpose in life, the reason why he was left to live. Nobody understands the pain he is in so he feels more alone than he already is, which is why he forms a sense of kinship with Naruto and Karin because of this pain. They all know what being alone and grief means.

Anyway, SK moments are few; however, SK moments are not limited to only Sasuke and Karin interaction. There are third parties that acknowledges and comments on the potential and existence of SasuKarin.

Also, romance in Naruto is mostly handled by Kishi with comic relief.

Another FACT: Sasuke is NOT in love with Karin, but she is special to him. SasuKarin is possible and logical (I can write about what’s more illogical to happen but that’s going to be a different topic), and has the potential to grow. Read the SK manifesto if you need proof.

On a side note, it’s not SK fans’ fault that this ship is backed up by the manga itself, which is canon and actual evidence material.

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