#I don't blame him I cant because I understand the difficult position he was in

[kateis-cakeis]

Okay okay thinking about it, really thinking about it. My post from the other day (here) I said "you see him slip into this version of himself that is hardly recognisable, even when you compare him to his characterisation in S4" talking about S5 Merlin.

And then I really thought about, okay but what if say S1 Merlin was put into S5 Merlin's shoes, would he do any different? Would he?

Honestly, think about it.

Let's take him at the end of S1, where he was ready to give up his life for Arthur completely to save him. I mean sure he did that in S1Ep4, and tried to do it in S1Ep11, but Ep13 is where it really hits. He said goodbye after all.

This is a Merlin that was ready to tell Arthur about his magic, but was locked out of the possibility after Will lied as he died to protect him.

This is a Merlin who already tried to kill Mordred. Or well, let him die really. Not so much kill.

So let's look at lines from S1EP8 about Mordred dying vs Arthur dying, shall we? ...

"Would you let something terrible happen if it meant you'd stop something even worse happening in the future?"

"One of them's bad, really bad. And the other, it's...unthinkable."

"For once, you don't have to worry. I'm going to do nothing."

I cut out Gaius's replies because Merlin's lines are more important here. The 'something terrible' and the one that's 'bad, really bad' refer to letting Mordred be executed.

Meanwhile the 'something even worse' and 'it's unthinkable' refer to Arthur's death in the future.

He decides to do nothing as we know, he decides to let Mordred die, right up until Mordred pleads with him through telepathy.

That's the S1 Merlin we're dealing with.

Maybe if you took him from Ep1 or pre-S1 yeah he'd act differently, but S1 Merlin is as much defined by Arthur's impending death as S5 Merlin is.

The only difference is between them, S1 Merlin has destiny propelling him forward just a little more than S5 Merlin does. Whether by love or sheer dedication, S5 Merlin is even prepared to push aside his own freedom to save Arthur's life, just to condemn Mordred to death.

Would S1 Merlin do any different?

No, no I don't think he would. Not if he saw the vision, not if he saw Arthur fall.

S5 Merlin is defined by what he saw in the pool, he's defined by seeing what he believes is Arthur's death (not yet knowing he would survive for days after acquiring that wound)

If S1 Merlin, or even S2, 3, or 4 saw that same vision? I don't think they would do any differently.

Maybe he had more hope earlier on, sure, but that would be missing the way that S5 Merlin hopes. He tells both Mordred and Finna that it "won't always be like this". He hopes for freedom as much as S1 Merlin does, he's just more prepared to prioritise Arthur.

But isn't that what he's always done? S2, when he struggles to lie, but still does lie to Arthur about Morgause and his mother - He's thanked for reminding Arthur that sorcerers are evil.

The way he acts just before telling the lie is so similar to his expressions when he's about say "There can be no place for magic in Camelot" in S5Ep5.

That's the thing. I know I bang on about how S5 Merlin is so much darker and he is, he grew up after all. But I truly think if S1 Merlin saw that vision, nothing would have changed.

Nothing. Not even his actions with the Disir. Why would he, if there's a chance to try and kill Mordred Merlin always took it. Or tried to as much as he could.

S2 Merlin, put in S5 Merlin's shoes, might even edge closer to murder, that man tripped that kid up in the hope that two guards would kill him, and instead watched as Mordred killed the guards instead.

What, Merlin was innocent back in earlier seasons? That boy, that man, he was never innocent, man was down to murder from his very first day in Camelot.

So yes, S5 Merlin has ten years give or take of saving Arthur and setting aside his freedom, and that did indeed darken him and change him and mould him, but S1 Merlin already had enough experience that nothing would change.

Merlin was always going to condemn Mordred, he barely knew him early on after all, and later, he already had the knowledge of the vision.

Let's not forget that in S5, Merlin says he likes Mordred, but that he can't ignore what he saw. That he can't save the life of a man destined to kill Arthur, that he can't ignore what the dragon said. That Finna was right, he cannot trust Mordred, not after all he's been told.

I don't think any Merlin could do any differently if he was told all that, and shown Camlann.

There's no such thing as an innocent Merlin, not when it comes to Arthur's life. We can say he became too blinded, but in S4 he killed Agravaine, used dark magic to lock away Morgana's magic for a time, and took away Arthur's free will. S3 is a little harder, but he did command Kilgharrah against his will. S2 Merlin is easy, he tried to kill Mordred, and morbidly held Morgana as she was dying to the water he poisoned. S1 Merls is just people dying left and bloody right. Nimueh, god should we ever forget about the way he killed Nimueh. She fucking exploded.

All this to say, S5 Merlin didn't abandon his values because he already did that when they all first met Mordred. He just became more and more set, darker and darker over time. But if any version of himself was given that vision by the Vates, it's over, it's so over, because that's all it took.

To see Arthur fall, that's all it took. It's all it would ever take.

#bbc merlin #merlin #look look just hear me out here #s5 merlin might go brrrr on the whole matter of Arthur #in a way that is different #but like i dont think if he was put in those shoes earlier on that it would be different #like really thinking about it - Merlin was always down to try and get Mordred killed #that's like his whole thing with Mordred #and I understand that #I don't blame him I cant because I understand the difficult position he was in #here's this kid and later older boy/man who is gonna kill someone who he's really close to #friends with soulmates with you know #like yeah he's gonna put Arthur above Mordred every day of the week #because Mordred is nothing in comparison - Arthur is everything to him #there's sometimes i feel like over the years i read things in this fandom about how it's all Merlin's fault for condemning Mordred but it's #like okay cool - but he was never gonna act differently that's just not in his character #He would never turn his back on destiny or prophecy visions and whatnot #in fact it's often Gaius saying there are many futures that steers Merlin wrong #silly Gaius not knowing of Arthur's fate - the never ending circle :P #still it's important to really look at Merlin and appreciate this is just how he is #from the very moment Kilgharrah implied that Mordred would be Arthur's death - Merlin was set to do everything he could #and the second Mordred came back into their lives - after he saw the vision - what could he do? what could he bloody do? #im still surprised to this day that he didnt just try directly - i mean i know why he still has morals but i think he was close #Merlin would have always done this that's the thing no matter at what stage - this was exactly who he was #someone prepared to do anything to protect the people he loves - not just Arthur - like again Nimueh Nimueh Nimueh #oh my god Nimueh - do you guys ever watch Merlin kill her from time to time - it's so brutal - I think that's the moment he's at his #scariest like even some of the darker S5 scenes dont match up to that

[rosiethedragongeek]

(telling u here bc i didnt wanna hijack the fic post jdbddbbfskdvb)

the main reason I DON'T/WOULDN'T want a canon Spitelout redemption is because I'm not confident Dreamworks could do it well. Riders Of Berk and Race To The Edge do the job of making sure we understand that we are NOT meant to sympathise with Spitelout. Three's a pattern and off the top of my head there are atleast three "spitelout bad!" episodes ("Thawfest", "Snotlout Gets The Axe", "Notlout") and a couple where it is featured as a B plot ("Race to fireworm island"). The writing for Snotlout specifically is probably what I'd pin down as the best in the show, so i guess I never thought to narrow it down to bad writing. I knew that (apparently) it was never commited to one way or the other in the end, but Ive expressed numerous times that the constant back and forth is VERY interesting to me. I love that Snotlout keeps forgiving him. I love that Spitelout keeps getting worse. I love that even though Spitelout causes him pain, and its acknowledged that its wrong, Snotlout still admires him and pines for his attention. Its very special and relatable to me that it takes a lot for Snotlout to learn his lesson, that hes constantly optimistic, and that it always hurts him because he knows he should expect that by now. But he doesn't.

Dreamworks gave us a fair share of Spitelout episodes, seemingly testing the water of what they could get away with showing each time (High amount of pressure -> degrading him infront of his friends -> causing extreme delusion and paranoia). I think they knew that if we were going to get a conclusion, which we had to, it would have to be an important part of the episode - maybe even of the season. Maybe Spitelouts following them around for the episode, and Snotlout's doing perfectly fine, but Spitelout keeps criticising and jumping in to set an example. Maybe things go wrong and someone gets injured. Maybe its Hiccup, or Hookfang, or snotlout himself. and Snotlout has to stand there with a weapon - because I highly doubt Spitelout would take it seriously if there wasnt one involved - and say for the final time that he doesnt need him. That hes had enough of the criticism and the backhanded praise and the stupidly high standards. That he loves him like the father he has failed to be, and that thats what stings most. And Spitelout wouldve had to make a choice. And dreamworks did not have the anything neccessary to do that.

It would have had to been so carefully crafted. So many things would have had to be balanced. Snotlout shouldn't be too soft because then he wont listen - but he cant be too harsh because Spitelout is a survivor of the same mentality that he himself has. They cant put every single bit of blame on him - but to not do that would be irresponsible because they are his actions. They probably csnt use the word 'abuse' - but to use anything else would be downplaying it. It would have been so extremely difficult that I dont know if i wish they had even tried.

It just upsets me to know that they dont have a conversation. They never even have one. (english teacher voice) Maybe their relationship is less of a redemption arc, but more of a tragedy on the endless cycle of abuse perpetuated on war-ridden homelands like Berk.

DUDE

DUDE

This is such a thorough analysis I’m obsessed (and I am SO sorry it took me so long to get here omg)

They really do have a very cyclical, Snotlout gives and Spitelout takes type relationship. Most of their episodes include Snotlout looking up to Spitelout in the beginning, Spitelout being pretty awful to Snotlout in one way or another, and then a sorta positive interaction at the end that doesn’t necessarily address their conflict or what Spitelout did within the episode. It is then assumed that Snotlout and Spitelout have made up and are good again. Only for it all to happen over again.

It really upsets me too that they never have a real conversation where they actually talk about what’s going on, and that there is no indication that anything will ever change between them (aside from Snotlout’s character growth and his new complete understanding of his self worth and the fact that he can live his life outside of the box Spitelout’s created for him.

Thank you so much for this dude this is insane

#snotlout snotlout oi oi oi #fuck spitelout #snotlout jorgenson #snotlout #how to train your dragon #riders of berk #defenders of berk #race to the edge #httyd #rob #dob #rtte #thank you for the ask <3

[safetycar-restart]

I imagine that Max cg/dom would just start giving him dume/Illogical punishments. When he Insist he get a one like.

Dom: fine if you insist on a punishment i'll give you one uh...you cant have.. uh raisinss of a week mister

Max: but Mommy i don't like raisinss. I don't think we have any in the house.

Dom: Well I guess it doesn't matter you cant have any.

And other stuff he do mot like in sub/litte space and more random stuff like no watergun fights in the dead of winter or no horre movies of a month

Or mabye making him write. I am a good boy and don't need to be punisht or I will not blame myself for somting I have no control over. On paper by hand like 20 times so that he dose not forget

Sorry for my bad english/gammer mistakes. English is not my first language and I'm very dyslexi.

Sony worry about your English anon!!! I can understand what you meant by this ask and that’s all that counts. And I absolutely love this idea. I'm gonna make this in the d/s au because of max's history of his bad past dom in that au, cause I think that makes the most sense here.

Firstly, the ridiculous punishments start when max requests a punishment for something that he absolutely doesn't deserve a punishment for. Maybe he made a mistake in quali? He still got on the front row, and as far as you're concerned he did amazing, but he missed pole position because he had to abandon his last flying lap from running wide and he thinks he needs to be punished.

His old dom would have punished for him that, and his dad would have called his old dom to confirm that he received a good enough punishment.

But it's completely different with you.

With you, rather than berate him when he got out the car, you immediately hugged him close and asked if he was okay, praising him for trying his best and making sure he isnt beating himself up too hard for his mistake.

It's such a sharp contrast to what he's used to and he has no idea what to do about it.

He doesn't get much time with you until after media, and even then he doesn't know what to do. He should be being punished right now, but instead you're trying your best to comfort him and he doesn't know what to do because he doesn't think he deserves this.

So he panics and called the safeword even though you aren't scening. You step back of course, asking him what's wrong and that's when he just babbles about how he needs to be punished.

You tell him that for the next week, he's not allowed to drink any almond milk. Max HATES almond milk.

He looks at you in confusion, reminding you that he hates that and you just smile and nod, telling him that it doesn't matter. That's his punishment.

You explain to him that he is getting the punishment he deserves, because he doesn't deserve an actual punishment for making a genuine mistake on track.

It takes a long time for that message to really hit home, but you stick with the ridiculous punishments the entire time.

I also think that making him write lines like that is the perfect punishment for when he really does need to be punished, like when he talks bad about himself or breaks one of the self care rules.

Often he'll end up crying as he writes, because you always make sure that what he has to write is something that he really needs to hear and it's always so difficult for him.

You always sit with him while he writes, letting him take breaks whenever he needs to and offering him plenty of cuddles and kisses, praising him for doing so well and promising him that he'll be forgiven once he finishes his lines.

#sub!max #mv #gn!reader #d/s au