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joannalannister · 5 years

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Hey, I absolutely agree with you about wanting a tag space for ASOIAF specific content. But I was wondering how one would know what should go in the new tag when some of the early seasons of Game of Thrones actually did once overlap with the books? How do we make the distinction of what's acceptably ASOIAF enough?

@thevagabondthoughts asked:

Hi Lauren. Regarding asoiaf tags, what are we to do with materials that are a mix of both? I have been encountering with problem tagging contents that contain graphics from the show and quotes & descriptions from the book. Pls. advise.

[ Read about the new #valyrianscrolls tag exclusively for ASOIAF content! ]

Hi! A number of people have asked me questions like this: what do we do with show images? I think it’s a difficult question to answer. I’ll start by saying that the purpose of this tag is for book content, But what do we do with show images?

I don’t think this is a question I should answer alone. The #valyrianscrolls tag should be a community effort on the part of the ASOIAF fandom, so I asked the opinions of a few book fans what they thought.

I’ll give their opinions before I give my own.

@nobodysuspectsthebutterfly said:

there were differences in the early seasons. ages, family trees (skipping King Jaehaerys), removed scenes, added scenes. “not today” is show only. lots of other dialogue is show only. people just overlook it because they’ve forgotten. for fancasting/graphics I suppose it’s fine though. you may want to ask more people than me. others may be “no got at all not even images”

(@nobodysuspectsthebutterfly first suggested this project and she helped me a lot in getting it started.)

@samwpmarleau said:

i think as long as the purpose of the content is to depict the novels (or au’s thereof), it would be okay. while i don’t envision any of the show’s actors when i’m reading the books and a lot of them don’t even resemble their characters, if their scenes are being manipulated to fit with the books, i think that would align with book-only content well enough. obviously it’s a gray area, but yeah. my two cents

@rhaella said:

usually i consider show footage with asoiaf quotes to be asoiaf content. as long as it’s not using scenes that are show-only i guess. but yeah it’s sometimes a tricky distinction to make

@eidetictelekinetic said:

Show images but book canon seems fair to me, especially since some characters are going to be hard to find other versions for

@rhaella said:

yeah and sometimes it’s hard to find free good quality footage to download for fancasts

@cosmonauthill said:

I agree with the others, I don’t like some of the actors in the show but I don’t mind seeing them in a book!canon context?

@rhaella said:

and yeah especially the child characters imo, because it’s honestly so hard to find child fancasts

@eidetictelekinetic said:

Also, tbh, some of the show characters who aren’t right in their roles are useful elsewhere. Like the aged up Tommen and Myrcella could make young!Cersei and Jaime, or other Lannisters of choice

The general consensus among people I asked seems to be that show images are okay if they are being used to depict things from the books.

In my opinion – and this is just my opinion, I’m not the fandom police, I’m not some authority – show images are okay if they’re being used in some way to depict stuff from the books.

For example, I make photomanipulations. If you tell me I can’t use any images at all from the show for my photomanipulations, then I’m not gonna be able to put any of my creations in this tag that I started. (Which is gonna make me kinda sad.) I have used stuff from the show as a base for my photomanipulations for years, and I don’t think anyone would say these are show stuff:

all four of these images used show caps as a base

everything here also used show stuff as a base for the graphic

I personally don’t consider those images ^^ to be “a mix of show and book content”. I consider those images to be purely book content, and I used images from various tv shows to illustrate that book content.

So if you’re using some images from the show but you’re using them with book quotes to depict stuff from the books, I personally think that’s ok.

Also, I am not a fanartist, but I am friends with fanartists, and they often need references! Art is EXTRA HARD!! I don’t think it’s a bad thing if artists need to use a reference image from the show to help them draw their art and illustrate the books, as long as they are trying to show the books.

Also, fancasting is hard. For example, it’s hard to find gif footage of an actor with achondroplasia in medieval-ish clothing. (I made gifs I’ve never posted of Casterly Rock, and one of the gifs is a gif-manip of Tyrion at Casterly Rock, and I use Dinklage as my fancast. I am acutely aware that Dinklage is not exactly how Tyrion is described in the books – he’s too old, for one thing – but what do I do? How else can I show Tyrion? I think representation is important, so I want an actor with achondroplasia to depict Tyrion, so what do I do?

How do we as ASOIAF fans disentangle ourselves from this show-book mess? What do we do?

I think we just have to do the best that we can.

So I’ll say what I said above: the purpose of the #valyrianscrolls tag is for book content. If you truly feel like the images or gifs you’re posting are book content (or some AU or s/t thereof), then I would tell you to put it in the tag.

But it needs to be book content!!!

Like Butterfly said, even in the very first season of the show, there were differences. For example, Cersei never had a child by Robert in the books, and that’s a pretty big plot points!!

So this tag is NOT for the early seasons of the show, they’re not the same thing!! The tag is for BOOK CONTENT!! (pls dont put show bs about the show!baby Cersei and Robert had together in this tag pls)

If you’re fancasting show images to show book content and you’re plastering book quotes all over them, or if you’re captioning them with book quotes, then I think that’s ok.

But please!! Actually use book quotes!! Not show quotes!! Book quotes!!

Also, please, I’m begging y’all, “we are not men” is NOT a book quote, please stop putting that quote in the #asoiafedit tag, I will not reblog it to @asoiafedit, PLEASE!!

I’M BEGGING!!

PLEASE DON’T USE SHOW QUOTES IN THIS TAG!!!

If you are looking for a book quote, or if you can’t remember whether a quote is from the books or the show, I recommend using

https://asearchoficeandfire.com/

If you’re looking for ASOIAF quotes about a certain theme, like love, you can search for “love” in asearchoficeandfire and get quotes!! You don’t need to use show quotes!!! There are so many quotes from the books!! GRRM wrote so many words!! So many GOOD words!! So many QUOTABLE words!! Use them!!

We’re all in this difficult situation together. That show is everywhere. I think we all just need to do the best we can, keeping in mind that this tag is for book content. If you don’t feel like something is book content, then don’t put it in the tag.

For me, it’s not about “overlap” or “mixing” the two canons, it’s

“I’m depicting book canon, and sometimes I have to use the only resources I have (ie show images of hand pins/chains) to depict the book canon, but I’m gonna make damn sure you all know this is book canon with all these book quotes and book references.”

I’m hoping that this can be a discussion, though. Like I said, I’m not a fandom authority. I’m not trying to boss anyone around. I’m not trying to make fandom rules.

So maybe other people can reblog this and weigh in on how they think this should go? Do other people think it’s okay to use some show images if you’re trying to depict book content?

TLDR - use the #valyrianscrolls tag for book content. You have to judge for yourself whether your post is book content, and I hope that you will keep the spirit of this tag in mind and be courteous to others when you are tagging.

#valyrianscrolls #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #thevagabondthoughts #hopefully this can start a discussion #and other people can share their feelings on what we should do with this tag?#Anonymous #replies

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