#There's a lot i have to day about certain very unhealthy things in kpop stan culture and this is one of them...

[thesecretbits]

This was in my drafts, but in lieu of SKZ's airport fiasco, it seems like a good time to post this, because some of you fans are the literal worst.

There are so many things about stans and stan culture in kpop that bothers me. There are good things about fans and fandoms, yes, but those toxic ones are loud. So, I give you...

Things that annoy me about kpop stans/fandoms

1. The people who are convinced they are all-knowing about all the dynamics of a friend group (aka the kpop group) that they are not personally involved in.

This includes toxic, delusional shippers who make up ridiculous theories about their ship (or about how all members of the group are dating each other as if that's not weird at all), and answering questions as if they are authorities on the relationships of these people just because they watched a 20 minute video on youtube about how to read body language.

At the end of the day, you see what idols want you to see. I'm not saying that a lot of that is not genuine, I'm just saying that you are not all knowing about your idol. You would think you guys would learn to keep some kind of distance because of the multiple idols that have behaved in absolute horrid ways and remember that idols are human and no one is perfect, no matter how much the company tries to make it seem as if they are.

There is a lot you know about an idol, but you don't know everything and that is the way it should be. Stop acting as if you know more than you do.

2. How some kpop stans treat idols as if they're fictional characters and not real people, who you can use to project all your personal wants (and sometimes very disturbing fantasies) onto, as if you are entitled to that kpop idol's person just because you like the music they make or the content they give you.

Kpop idols are in fact actual human beings. They are real people whose lives you only see a fraction of (no matter how much highly edited, on-camera antics they present to you). There are idols who are a bit more open and candid about themselves on camera than others, but at the end of the day, there are always parts of themselves that are not for public consumption and shouldn't be, because everyone, even celebrities, should be allowed a certain level of privacy.

The way some of you see idols, the way you loudly and publicly speculate and assume extremely intimate, personal things about them that are, frankly, none of your business just because of the personas they present while they are working is weird and uncomfortable and wrong. And the fact that some of you dedicate so much time and attention to talking about is it just...some things you need to just keep to yourself.

They way some of you fans demand things of idols, while failing to take into consideration that they are people with their own ideas, wants, needs, and autonomy, that are more important than what you want shows how some of you have absolutely no respect or care for people you claim to love.

Some of you treat your idols like they are still kids, refusing to acknowledge their growth and maturity as people and as artists, just so can you infantilize them or project onto them what you think they are and not who they present themselves to be. No one over the age of 21 is a baby and the way some of you treat your idols like they are is just ridiculous. You can find them cute and adorable while also treating them like the adults they are. It can be done.

They way some of you refuse to give your idols even a modicum of respect, for their wants, their space, their identities, shows that you don't actually give a fuck about these people, and that you see them as things you are entitled to simply because they happen to be celebrities who make music you like. Some of you act as if you buying their albums and merch means you can treat them however you want, and that is not true.

Fandom can be fun, but sometimes people take things way too far and in ways that are disturbing and unhealthy. Be a better stan.

#kpop opinions #fandom/stan edition

[serendipitybutterfly]

i think it's one think to be like "so and so would be cute together", but then you get the delulus who try to prove that they're actually together and gif every single interaction they have and present it as proof. also, to say it to the artist directly is SO inappropriate.

Hmm... Well my opinion is this; it's fine to think the relationship between two people as presented to you, as not only a third party, but a distant third party who doesn't even know them personally, is cute. If it stays there. "Oh the relationship between x and z is sooo cute!" is totally fine and I don't think there's anything weird about that.

However, when finding a relationship between two people cute moves into the territory of obsessively trying to prove that every interaction between them is fraught with romantic or sexual tension or trying to prove that they're actually secretly in a relationship... You've moved into unhealthy territory where you need to check yourself and reflect on why exactly it's so important to you that these two people who are unrelated to you are romantically involved.

Again I can only speak my personal opinion, but I strongly believe that the obsessive shipping I see amongst young women in kpop / boy band fandoms has to do with insecurity. Shipping in general, even when it involves fictional characters (something I'm no stranger to. I love to ship and have since I was a little girl... You know fictional characters) usually stems from relating in some way to one character and seeing in the other character an ideal or fantasy partner you'd like for yourself.

You like those characters together because, maybe, you can see a lot of yourself in one of them and you see the kind of relationship you'd like to have in their dynamic. For example, as a kid I shipped zutara because I saw a lot of myself in Katara and I found Zuko attractive as a character (the reformed Zuko!... Forgive the ATLA reference). Of course this isn't necessarily always the case but I'm basing this purely on my observations and experience in various fandoms since I was a teen girl myself.

Now when it comes to real life people and kpop stan culture... I think there's two main things that happen when people get too obsessive about their own fantasies (keeping in mind that the whole culture of boy bands is intended to indulge and titillate the fantasies of young women in a 'safe' way). There are firstly those fans who essentially 'ship' a specific member or members with themself, in that they enjoy fantasising about being in a relationship with a certain member... Which is again, totally fine once it stays within the realm of fantasy and the person fantasising is aware that it's just a fantasy.

The truth is boy band members want to be your fantasy boyfriend... That's kinda the point and how they make bank... But it's like a role playing game where it's only fun once the people involved are aware it's just pretend... When one person flips the switch and starts believing it's actually real, things get scary fast and that's where we get saesangs and stalkers and the people who go ballistic and threaten bodily harm to themselves and others when it turns out their bias is dating or even might be interested in other girls at all (see what happens basically anytime BTS interacts with women around their age) .

This category of fans are usually those who are using the idols as replacements for actual boyfriends and often have such low self esteem that they don't think they'll be able to get a real boyfriend and that's why they become obsessed and fall so far into the fantasy being sold...

This is the dark side of boy bands really which BTS very cleverly addressed in Pied Piper. They are very aware that they are flirting with this obsession... Both wary of it and worried about how unhealthy it is and at the same time wanting fans to continue to love them so intensely... It's indeed a dangerous game...

The second category are those fans who, from my observations I believe, have even lower self esteem and / or issues such as internalised misogyny which actually leads to a fear of or inability to explore their sexuality by fantasising about being with the object of their admiration themselves... There is such fear or trauma surrounding putting themselves into that picture, that it causes them to instead relate themselves to one member and see that person almost as an avatar through which they can reach the object of admiration and furthermore, explore sexual and romantic fantasy from an even greater, and seemingly 'safer', distance.

Again, if this is kept in the realm of fantasy well... It's your fantasy! But this too can become an addiction and obsession because the fan may begin to subconsciously attach themself more and more to the idol they relate to and thus place more and more meaning on their connection to the idol who is the object of desire... Essentially, if someone relates a lot to say... Jungkook (because I honestly think this is often the case) and they are hugely attracted to Jimin or Taehyung (which is also often the case) there's a sense in which Jungkook becomes the reader self insert in the shipper's own personal fanfiction and the shipper desperately analyses every one of his interactions with the member they're 'in love with' because, through relating to Jungkook, and through Jungkook being perhaps in a relationship with this object of desire, they feel an ego boost... They feel the vaguest sense that perhaps the object of desire might be attracted to them too...

Or if not, a sense a that at least it's not another, more attractive, girl... Because that would mean the already weakened ego would take a bigger blow... By imagining a scenario where females are entirely removed from the equation, they feel a sense of freedom from the turmoil of 'not being attractive enough', 'sexy enough', 'cool enough' or just simply 'good enough' for the object of desire. 'At least if he's not interested in girls at all, I don't need to feel bad about him never being interested in me. At least he can be with a guy whose personality is like mine...' this is the state of mind of a lot of these obsessive shippers from my observation.

Of course aside from the fact that these obsessions are unhealthy enough for the fans, they are also extremely uncomfortable and even downright harmful to the members, their relationships with each other and with friends, family members and perhaps even significant others we don't know about! People need to be aware that once you put something online, it has left the realm of fantasy because you've put it out there in the real world. Keep those boundaries clear because when the lines blur for you between fantasy and reality, you're in dangerous waters.

I mean... Even my mother as a relatively new fan randomly came across a shipping video on YouTube and asked me what that was all about... At that time, I could only think of what their mothers would think coming across videos like that... And I really think that's something people need to think about more when it comes to these fantasies. The members are not characters in your own personal drama or fanfiction, they are real people with real lives and real friends and family members... who use the Internet and see the weird stuff you post! So think twice before you put those thoughts out there!

This has been an opinion post...

#There's a lot i have to day about certain very unhealthy things in kpop stan culture and this is one of them... #Prompted by Tae... Good lad... Speaking up straightforwardly #Shipping #Think before you post #Opinion

[hydratedlife]

How is anyone making this into the worst case of idol treatment ever? I failed to see the line in the post you reblogged. Sure BTS are treated better than many SM or other artists, no one is denying that. That post however is about Jin and Bighit. Not about SM. Not about their artist. How does other people's worse treatment justify being silent about issues they care about concerning their fav? BECAUSE people care they want to avoid Jin leaving, feeling depressed and be unhappy.

Ok. I want to start this off by saying that before you send hate or get mad please read this entire post or at least the bold parts. This is taken out of context. And it was never in my reblog because it wasn’t necessary. I mentioned this when I replied to someone else. A Jin stan literally told me that no other idol suffers from extreme bias as much as Jin does which is an absolutely insane statement. I’m not going to mention her because she’s very young and I don’t want to bring her into this. I am also replying to all of this, not because I want to bring people down because you’re allowed to feel how you feel, but I’m sick of seeing people spread misinformation and cause other people to become worried and not fully understand a story objectively. I’m not forcing you to agree with me.

Also to think that I’m being a hater and that I don’t care about mistreatment of idols… Jessica is my ultimate bias. That should say something. And to call me a Jin anti is just an assumption people seem to like making. I love and support Jin as much as all the other members of BTS. 

First, there are seriously people going around here comparing Jin’s situation to Tao, Kris and Luhan and DBSK. Like I don’t even feel like I have to explain how ridiculous and disrespectful that is. Disrespectful to these guys for trivialising their extremely serious and appalling situations. Disrespectful to Bighit for accusing them of this extreme abuse and illegal actions that is clearly not happening(even if you think he’s being mistreated it’s clearly nowhere near as extreme as what SM did to them). And also disrespectful to Jin, spreading that he’s this victim that suffers every day in BTS and doesn’t belong in his group and that no one cares about him. I’ve also been seeing people saying he should leave the group and others saying he could sue them. I’m sure if Jin saw those comments he definitely wouldn’t be jumping for joy at this borderline offensive attempt at “supporting” him (this is only directed at people comparing him to the aforementioned artists not general worried Jin stans).

But like if you saw, I’ve been a kpop fan for over 8 years now. BTS are probably the most well-treated big group I have ever seen in my time. If someone can name me a successful group that has received better treatment then I’ll be willing to accept that. The reason I compared is for something called perspective, NOT to silence anyone. When you’re in your own little world where you only stan one or two groups, a small thing can seem huge when in reality it’s not. So by comparing, I am trying to give you perspective on what the kpop industry is and how it works. I don’t deny that Jin doesn’t get treated as well as he should. Yes he is neglected as a vocalist and all around not well promoted. But to call it abuse is ridiculous. And to make a callout post is quite dramatic. 

To give an example, Jin is a visual so he is there to look good. As much as we don’t like that, that’s his role. I REALLY like his voice (and I’ve talked about him having a great voice and his vocal technique before) and I wish he had more lines too and I understand the frustration as a fan but he was not put in the group to be a highly-featured singer. And to put things into perspective, look at majority of other groups and their visual. Yoona, Dara or Seolhyun for example, get one maybe two lines per song. Fans may like their voice but they’re also not there to be singers. Although, at least those girls were pushed in other areas (cfs, dramas, variety shows) which I believe that they are neglecting in Jin’s case and they should put more effort into pushing him more in those areas. Idk why but I feel like Bighit is confused and are trying to push Taehyung as a visual as well, which is stupid on their part because Jin needs a clear role that he can excel at and be known for. So Bighit is being messy as hell with that but it’s their job to figure out because schedules are business decisions and international fans cannot change that as cfs, tv shows etc. are all for korean audiences. If you want to push that, you have to talk to the korean fandom.

Someone also called out out Bighit for calling him fat and forcing him to diet. Which is awful and I don’t agree with this AT ALL and you’re right, it can lead to depression. But once again, you need perspective. Calling someone fat so easily is a cultural thing and every idol gets told that which is why a lot of them suffer from depression (along with many other reasons like high stress, antis, media, no social life etc). And most idols, particularly every female idol is on crazy, unhealthy diets. Which still DOES NOT justify it but basically, what I’m saying is that whether it’s because of korean culture or just idol culture, what people are upset about cannot be fixed by saying “please stop this” especially from foreigners because its the entire culture that needs to change and that’s a much bigger issue which is sad. And to agree with Jin stans again, I do think calling out Bighit for unhealthy diets is helpful, as I’ve seen fans of other idols make a big deal about it and many companies don’t want to be seen as so unethical and things sometimes get better (at least on the companies part but what an idol chooses to do on their own shouldn’t be credited to the company). 

The last point I’ve seen a lot is talking about Jin’s neck injury although no one knows what really happened. In Bighit’s history they’ve always let the boys rest when they have an injury and I can’t imagine why they would force Jin specifically to perform especially when he isn’t a main vocal or dancer. If they let Jungkook, who sings like 50% of the lines, rest then idk why not Jin. If what people are saying is true about Jin’s neck situation then that’s gross of Bighit and should be called out, but to know barely any of the facts and then take that to make assumptions and accuse a company of abuse is hurtful not only for a company but for BTS being under that company.

So to sum this up, what I said was taken out of context. I don’t disagree with everything Jin stans are saying, I just believe it’s blown out of proportion. And I am certainly not a “Bighit stan” if that’s a thing? It’s like you get crucified for not always seeing things from the same viewpoint as everyone else. I will defend a business for making smart business decisions whether fans like it or not. I am currently completing my business degree and we literally discuss similarsituations of employee ill-treatments. So sue me for actually taking a look at how the business works and why they make certain decisions. He is also a grown man with enough freedom in their company to communicate whether he is unhappy or not and you shouldn’t speak on his behalf in a situation like this but that's up to you and how you choose to handle things. 

You can attack me personally and shade me all you like but I much prefer to have a conversation with someone even if we disagree as it’s much less toxic. You also don’t need to block me for having a different opinion…

#sorry this was an essay #if you don't care for what i have to say let me know why #discourse is good and helpful #anyway #Anonymous #bts #jin #no hate here