#i mostly see this shit from cis queers but trans mlm sometimes say it and just... fuck. come on guys we're on the same side here

[gay-otlc]

Baffling to me how people can genuinely believe straight trans men are privileged/aren't oppressed when "save the poor confused lost lesbians!!!!" is a common sentiment that is literally directed at us. Like TERFs are quite vocal that they think straight transmascs are either lesbians being led astray because we are too stupid to think for ourselves, or evil predators stealing their lesbian daughters. If you refuse to acknowledge this rhetoric exists I really don't know what to tell you other than go fuck yourself.

#'straight trans men are privileged' do we live in the same fucking universe? #i mostly see this shit from cis queers but trans mlm sometimes say it and just... fuck. come on guys we're on the same side here #if you could refrain from invalidating our oppression that would be fantastic #most trans mlm are lovely but yeah there are a few who shit on trans mlw and it's :/ #yeah. every day i wake up and i'm pissed about how straight transmascs get treated #transandrophobia

[adorpheus]

on fujoshi and fetishization

Lately, more and more, both here on tumblr and on other sites, I keep seeing people spew unfiltered hatred at fujoshi - that is, women who like mlm content such as gay fanfic and fanart featuring men with other men. And I don’t mean like a specific type of fujoshi, like the ones who are genuinely being weird about it, but just like a general hatred for girls (but especially straight identifying girls) who express love for gay romance.

I hate to break this to you all, but women (including straight women!) actually are allowed to like mlm fanfiction and fanart, even enthusiastically so. A woman simply expressing her love of gay fanfic, even if it is in kind of a cringey way or a way that you personally don’t like, is NOT automatically fetishization.

I’ve been on the receiving end of fetishization for my entire life, from a very young age, as many black and brown folx have, so I consider myself pretty well acquainted with how it works. Fetishization isn’t just like, being really into drawings of boys kissing, or whatever the fuck y’all are trying to imply on this god forsaken site. 

Fetishization is complicated imo, and can encompass a lot of things, such as (but not limited to):

1 - dehumanization, e.g. viewing a group of people as sexual objects who exist purely for entertainment purposes, rather than acknowledging them as actual people who deserve respect and rights

and

2 - projecting certain assumptions onto said people based on their race/sexuality/whatever is being fetishized. These assumptions are often, but not always, sexual in nature (like the idea that black people in general are more sexual than other races, etc etc etc).

I’m going to use myself as an example to illustrate my point. Please note this isn’t the best or most nuanced example, but it is the most simplistic. A white person finding me attractive and respectfully appreciating my black features as part of what makes me beautiful is not, on its own, fetishization. A white person finding me attractive solely or mostly because I’m a PoC is now in fetishization territory. Similarly, assuming I’m dominant because of my blackness (like saying “step on me mommy” and shit like that) is hella fetishistic. 

That being said, theres definitely a difference between how fetishization works in real life with real people, and how it shows up in fandom. 

Fetishization manifests in many different ways in fandom, but most commonly on the mlm side of things, I personally see it appear as conservative (or centrist) women who love the idea of two men together, but don’t actually like gay people, and don’t necessarily think LGBT+ people deserve rights (or “special treatment” as its sometimes dog whistled). These women view queer men as sexual objects for entertainment rather than an actual group of people who deserve to be protected from systemic oppression. I’ve noticed that they often don’t even think of the men they “ship” together as actually being gay, and may even express disgust at the idea of a character in an mlm ship being headcanon’d gay. In case its not obvious, this is pretty much exactly the same way a lot of cishet men fetishize lesbians (they see “lesbian” as a porn category, rather than like, what actual LGBT people think of when we read the word lesbian). There’s a pretty popular viral tweet thread going around where someone explains seeing this trend of conservative women who like mlm stuff, and I have also personally witnessed this phenomenon myself in more than one fandom. 

The funny thing is, maybe its just me buuuut.... The place I see this particular kind of fetishization happen most is not in the anime/BL fandom, from which the term fujoshi originates - I actually see these type of women way way more in western fandom spaces like Supernatural, Harry Potter, and Hannibal. I can’t stress this enough, there’s a shocking amount of people who are like, straight up trump supporters in these fandoms. If you want to experience it, try joining a Hannigram or Destiel group on facebook and you will probably encounter one eventually especially if you happen to be living through a major historical event. Like these women probably wouldn’t even be considered “fujoshi”, because that term doesn’t really apply to them given they aren’t in the BL/anime fandom, yet they’re the ones I personally see actually doing the most harm.

Of course this isn’t the ONLY kind of fetishizing woman in the mlm/BL world, there are other ways fetishization shows up, but this is the most toxic kind that I see.

A girl just being really into BL or whatever may be “cringe” to you, or she may be expressing her love for BL in a “cringey” way, but a straight woman really enjoying BL is not, on its own, somehow inherently fetishization. Yes, sometimes teenage girls act kind of cringe about how much they like BL and that might be annoying to you, but its not necessarily ~problematic~. 

That being said, IT NEEDS BE REMARKED that a lot of the “fujoshi” that you all hate so deeply, are actually closeted trans men or nonbinary people who haven’t yet come to terms with their gender identity, or are otherwise just NOT cishet. I know because I was one of these closeted people for years, and I honestly think tumblr and the cultural obsession around purity is one of the many reasons I was closeted so deeply for so long. STORYTIME LOL!!! In my early adolescence, I was a sort of proto “fujoshi”. I identified as a bi girl who was mostly attracted to men, or as most (biphobic) people called it, “practically straight”. I wrote and read “slash” fanfic and looked at as well as drew my own fanart. We didn’t use the term fujoshi back then, but that’s definitely how I could have been described. I was obsessed with yaoi, BL, whatever you want to call it, to a cringe-inducing degree. I really struggled to relate to most het romances, so when I first discovered yaoi fanfics (as we called them at the time), I fell in love and felt like I finally found the type of romance content that was made for me. I didn’t know exactly why, I just knew it hit different. LGBT+ fanart and fanfiction brought me an immense amount of joy, and I didn’t really think too hard about why.

At some point, in my early 20s, after reading lots of discourse™ here on tumblr and other places like twitter, I started to get the sinking feeling that my passion for gay fanfiction was ~problematic~. I had always felt a sense of guilt for being into mlm content, because literally anyone who found out I liked BL (especially the men I dated) shamed me for liking it all the fucking time (which btw is literally just homophobic, like can we talk about that?). In addition to THAT bullshit, now I’m seeing posts telling me that girls who like BL are cringey gross fetishists who inspire rage and should go die? 

Let me tell you, I internalized the fuck out of messages like this. I desperately wanted to avoid being ~problematic~. At the time, I thought being problematic was like the worst thing you could be. I was terrified of being “cancelled”, before canceling was even really a thing. I thought to myself, “oh my god, I’m gross for liking this stuff? I should stop.” I beat myself up over this. I wanted so badly to be accepted, and to be deemed a Good Person by the internet and society at large.

I tried to shape up and become a good ally (lmfao). I stopped writing fanfic and deleted all the ones I was working on at the time. I made a concerted effort to assimilate into cishet culture, including trying to indulge myself more deeply in the few fandoms I could find that had het content I did enjoy (Buffy, True Blood, Pretty Little Liars, etc). I would occasionally look at BL/fanfic/etc in private, but then I would repress my interest in it and not look for a while. Instead I would look at women in straight relationships, and create extremely heterosexual Couple Goals pinterest boards, and try to figure out how I could become more like these women, so I, too, could be loved someday. 

This cycle of repression lasted like eight years. Throughout it all, I was performing womanhood to the best of my ability and trying to become a woman that was worthy of being in a relationship. I went in and out of several “straight” relationships, wondering why they didn’t make me feel the way reading fanfic did. Most of all, I couldn’t figure out why straight intimacy didn’t work for me. I just didn’t enjoy it. I always preferred looking at or making gay fanfiction/fanart over actual intimacy with men in real life. 

Eventually, I stumbled upon a trans coming out video that someone I was following posted online, my egg started to crack, and to make an extremely long story short, after like 3 years of introspection and many gender panic attacks that I still experience to this day, I realized that I’m uh... MAYBE... NOT CIS..!? :|

I truly believe if I had just been ALLOWED TO LIKE GAY STUFF WITHOUT BEING SHAMED FOR IT, I probably would have realized I was trans way way sooner. Because for me, indulging in my love of gay romance and writing gay fanfic wasn’t me being a weirdo fetishist, it was actually me exploring my own gender identity. It is what helped me come to terms with being a nonbinary trans boy.

Not everyone realizes they are trans at age 2 or whatever the fuck. Sometimes you have to go through a cringey fujoshi phase and multiple existential crises to realize how fucking gay you are AND THATS FINE.

And one more thing - can we just be real here? 

A lot of anti-fujoshi sentiment is literally just misogyny. omg please realize this. Its “women aren’t allowed to enjoy things” but, like... with gay fanfics. Some of the anti-fujoshi posts I see come across my dash are clearly ppl projecting a caricature they invented in their head of a demonic fujoshi fetishist onto any woman who expresses what they consider to be a little too much enthusiasm for gay content and then using their perception of that individual as an excuse to justify their disdain for any women, especially straight women, ‘invading’ their ~oh so exclusive~ queer fandom spaces.

 god get over yrselfs this is gatekeeping by another name

idk why i spent so long writing this no one is even going to read it, does anyone even still use this site

*EDIT: HOLY SHIT WHEN DOING RESEARCH FOR THIS POST I FOUND OUT THAT Y-GALLERY IS BACK OMG!!! 

#rant #fujoshi #I SAID WHAT I SAID #personal #gender stuff

[voxofthevoid]

Taking It Up The Ass Isn’t Character Growth - A Rant

So, in response to an ask a while back, I said I had a rant brewing on fandom and sex positions, and well, a lot of you wanted to see it, so here you go. You literally asked for it.

Disclaimer: This is going to talk a lot about top/bottom roles in slash fic and fandom attitude towards them and is heavily filtered through the lens of my own tastes and experiences with fandom. I’d also like to be upfront that I am 100% in favor of people writing whatever fictional content they want, and it’s not what fandom does with characters that bothers me but rather how that translates into attitudes towards real, live people. Also, this is the essay version of a slow burn AU because I regurgitate my entire fandom history before getting to the point. Beware.

I discovered fan-fiction around a decade ago, had no clue what the hell it was, got hooked and dived deeper. I started participating in fandom circa 2013, and I was fairly young and also completely inexperienced both sexually and romantically. The fandom in question was Hannibal and my ship of choice was Hannibal/Will. It was/is a very chill fandom in general, but we had our drama. And chief among the contentious topics was—you guessed it—the top/bottom debate. I can’t actually remember any other topic that was discussed and argued for so ardently in that fandom, at least in those days. Even after I drifted away, I came across a few posts on the matter.

Generally, you had two camps—people who supported strict roles and those who were in favor of switching*. And because we’re a society plagued by illogical assumptions, the strict role camp mostly had people who thought Mr. Big Bad Cannibal in the Fancy Suits wouldn’t take it up the ass because he’s older, more experienced, more mentally stable, and of course, more ‘dominant’ in personality. Yes, that sentence is chock full of problematic shit. I am aware. Lots of people were aware and argued strongly against attributing top/bottom roles to personality. I don’t remember anyone arguing as enthusiastically for Top Will, but those voices were also there. But the general idea was that assigning strict top/bottom roles to a male/male couple was casting them in a heterosexual mold and thus, the progressive option was to make them switch. Strict roles also garnered comparisons to “yaoi” and uke/seme stereotypes, which was of course bad and fetishizing and we, the Western media fans, of course had to do better. Stealth racism is fun to untangle.

Anyway, I lapped up the woke juice. Partly because I was a baby queer from Buttfuck Nowhere, Asia, who had zero exposure to LGBT+ communities and what queer folks did with each other. Partly because it was the stance taken by most of my favorite writers so it seemed like a good position to emulate.

Emulate it I did. Most discussions I had about this happened in private with the handful of close friends I had in fandom. Where it really showed was in my writing. I made sure to write switching—maybe not in every fic, but then I alternated between fics. Thing is though, I did have a preference. I liked Top Will. I created and consumed a ton of Top Hannibal, and sometimes it was okay, sometimes it was not, but I couldn’t pinpoint why it made me uncomfortable. Back then, I thought I was a cis questioning/bi girl and once again, the impression I got was that not being MLM, having a preference was automatic fetishization. So I tried my best to justify my preferences, to my friends at least. I think what I said was that fandom was skewed towards Top Hannibal, and I liked the opposite because I’m a contrary fuck. Which I am, to be fair, but this was just me desperately trying to figure shit out without being offensive.

That’s the line I touted all the way until 2018, which was when I fucked off to grad school in A City, finally freed of Buttfuck Nowhere and able to actually date. At this point, I was settled in my sexuality (girls only) and questioning my gender (non-binary or trans guy). I had also tentatively figured out during undergrad that I’m an exclusive top and a Dom. Actual attempts at dating cemented that, yes, those are my preferences, about as flexible as a steel rod. Cue motherfucking epiphany over my fanfic tastes.

And see, over these years, I was engaging intermittently with fandom. I dutifully wrote switch couples. I also continued to have rigid tastes and continued to explain it away as being a contrary fuck—to be fair, until Steve/Bucky, my preference did seem to be the opposite of the larger fandom preference. But correlation, as we know, isn’t causation. Until Steve/Bucky, I continued to write versatile couples because I honestly didn’t have the guts to just say I liked it just one way. I do now but even then, I feel compelled to add that it’s because I want to see my own taste reflected in fic, so I write/read the character I relate to as a top, it's not that deep etc. Would I be as forthright if I didn’t have that reason? Would I have such strict preferences in fic if I didn’t have strict preferences IRL? The latter’s a mystery, but the former isn’t—I wouldn’t be because fandom is still entrenched in the same ideas that got me to this point to begin with.

In every fandom I’ve been in, I’ve seen some version of this debate go around. Sometimes, it’s one party saying “why would you write Character X as a bottom, he’s so Reason A” and a reblog chain that insults the OP and/or extols the virtues of switching. Sometimes, it’s a general-ish message that says they don’t understand why people have strict preferences when we all know real gay couples switch. Sometimes, it’s blanket statements that accuse anyone with preferences of fetishizing. Sometimes, it’s the same reasoning that gets you “Character Y is a top because of Reason B” transposed on versatile couples except this takes the form of “they switch because they’re equals.”

Ya’ll, I’m fucking tired.

I have long since lost count of the number of stories I’ve seen where an exclusive top learning bottom and liking it is character growth. Where a character who prefers to bottom taking a turn on top is empowering.

Isolated, these are fine. But I’ve seen enough of such stories that it’s distinctly discomfiting and a major squick. Sometimes a trigger, if I'm too immersed in the story. I’m not going to try and burn an author at the stake because they pissed me off. I am just going to close that window and quietly handle my shit. People can write whatever they want. But this one theme hits too close to home, as you can see from this 1.6k rant.

My friend (also my ex-girlfriend) and I had an all-out bitching session about this the other day. Both of us are kinky fuckers who have rigid, complementary roles we prefer and we have both had our grueling days of struggling to reconcile our sexual tastes with our ideologies precisely because of how these things are frowned upon in conservative and progressive circles. Seeing that in fandom, of all places, is both insulting and exhausting. Topping and bottoming aren’t personality traits. Neither is D/s. It’s sexual preference and power play. It really does not have to be that deep. I am not exorcising childhood trauma using the bodies of women. My partners, former and current, have not been brainwashed by the patriarchy. We will not become better, more complete individuals once I magically stop being a stone top and my partners embrace the joys of a strap-on.

I have, with my own two eyes, seen someone say that in a really committed relationship, of course the couple will switch.

Bullshit.

It’s transparent bullshit. This does not get attributed to cisgender M/F couples. Even when the automatic assumptions of woman = bottom and man = top get addressed, switching isn't presented as the default. No one’s saying “oh, if you really love your husband, you’ll peg him”. I do know butch/femme sapphic couples get their own share of shit. Because it’s all heteronormativity, right? Can’t have any other reason for top/bottom roles.

You have two extremes with “so who’s the woman” on one end and “it’s woke only if they switch” on the other, and as far as I’m concerned, they’re equally damaging. There shouldn’t be a pressure, however subtle, to conform your taste in fiction to some arbitrary idea of progressiveness. People are going to like whatever they want anyway; all this does is create an atmosphere where those likes can’t always be freely expressed without a lot of mental gymnastics. We’re seeing so many versions of this in the pushback against so-called problematic content, but smaller, subtler versions exist too.

Fictional characters aren’t real. They can be whatever you want them to be. And yes, other people will often want them to be the exact opposite of your ideas, but that’s just how things work. Meanwhile, the people behind these usernames? They’re real. No one should be throwing real people under the bus to ‘protect’ characters that don’t exist. Hannibal Lecter doesn’t care whether he gets fucked or dismembered in Author B’s fanfiction, but the discourse that surrounds the dick up his ass? That does affect flesh and blood people.

I am not claiming that this is the only attitude in fandom. Middlegrounds do exist. Plenty of people abide by fic and let fic and there are folks who pipe up to say not every RL queer couple switches. But it’s often the extremes that reach most people. That was certainly my experience, and I’m not the only one.

I don’t really know how to end this post. It is 100% a rant and one that’s been building up for a while. Bottom line is that people’s sexual behavior varies wildly and whenever you attack sexual tastes in fanfic by saying it’s unrealistic - or worse because let’s be real, that’s a very tame word choice - please remember that there’s likely someone out there who practices it.

* I’m using switch and versatile synonymously in this post. It’s mostly concerned with top/bottom debates. A lot of what I’m saying is also echoed in portrayals of and discussions surrounding D/s dynamics, but I’m not addressing that as much for now.  

#fandom #top bottom discourse #wow that's a tag #here it is the rant i promised #because i don't quite trust tumblr i feel compelled to add that this is ofc not some kind of attack on actual people who switch either #you do you man #live your best life #vox has opinions

[catboyfeli]

the past few days i’ve been experiencing so much confusion and dysphoria towards the concept of nonbinary itself, and i think that’s part of why i used to oppose it??

it’s just?? i’m autistic so i take everything literally, so if someone identifies as their agab, but not the gender roles assigned to it, would they be nonbinary? what even is gender to most people?

i’m so loving towards queer cishets because, although i’m not cishet, queer attraction to men as a woman is a big part of my identity, and everyone has different interpretations of what gender is, so if someone experiences their gender as queer, but still identifies as it, wouldn’t they be lgbtq?

like, if a cishet man identifies as male, but does not conform to the male gender role, expresses himself femininely, experiences a disconnect from the male social role, and experiences attraction exclusively to women (or those who present as women), but in a way that isn’t the same as typical cishet men, would he be considered nonbinary or genderqueer?

people go on and on about self identity always being valid, but the second someone identifies as cishet and queer, they act like it’s contradictory. but heterosexual attraction and straight attraction aren’t the same thing?

people say lgbtq means anyone who isn’t cishet, but also talks about how cis individuals may identify as genderqueer, or something similar, to describe their connection to gender roles and social roles. so by that logic, someone can identify as cis + het and queer without it being contradictory.

it’s been on my mind a lot lately and makes me feel like bursting into tears because it’s so overwhelming and confusing and i hate how exclusionary and hateful the community as a whole is.

i just? i have one character i’m kin with, that goes beyond just having them as a character i relate to or find comfort in. he’s a cis man, but very feminine, doesn’t conform to the male social role in the slightest, attracted almost exclusively to women with a rare exception here and there for other feminine men, identifies as male but not with the male social or gender roles

i know it probably sounds silly to most people but for me, this kin majorly affects my identity and so often i just wonder? is he cis? is he nonbinary? i don’t fucking know??? sometimes people say nonbinary and genderqueer can also refer to one’s gender expression, and yeah, this character’s gender expression is 100% nonbinary. he doesn’t “act” like a man whatsoever and identifies more with women than with men, but still identifies as a man.

anyway the big problem is that i roleplay this character, and whenever i think about the fact that people would assume a straight man or lesbian wouldn’t be attracted to him, it makes me feel incredibly dysphoric, because like?? ok he’s male but he doesn’t behave or present male whatsoever, so yeah, some straight men and lesbians COULD be attracted to him because attraction goes far beyond gender identity and is affected more by gender expression than anything else

so this whole thing just makes me feel confused and dysphoric and i’m about to start my period so i’ve been real emotional and disassociative lately which makes me hyperfixate on this and it’s so UGHGHHGGHh.

it’s just so difficult to explain my feelings, beliefs, and experiences to others and it makes me so frustrated and upset.

i just wish? the community would come up with something to refer to actual non lgbtq people? instead of using cishet as a catch-all because it’s really not? someone who’s cis and het can still be queer in their experience with gender and sexuality, and although i’m neither, i’m still supportive due to my past confusion with all of this and knowing what i experienced was queer, but at that time, feeling as if cis and heterosexual best described me.

and plus now even if i was cis and het, my attraction to men and experience with gender would still be queer, regardless of my personal identity or attraction (or lack of) to women.

most of society sees gender as either male or female, depending on your sex or which one you want to transition to, and how you behave and present yourself is independent of your gender. which makes sense, but now i don’t know what i believe and it’s all so fucking confusing and some aspects of nonbinary enforce gender norms and others demolish it and it confuses and distresses the hell out of me

i just wish i had one person who understood my way of thinking, then i’d feel less alone and crazy, because like? a woman who presents as male can still conform to the female social role? gender expression refers to more than just presentation, and a woman who presents as female can not conform to the female social role. is that considered nonbinary or genderqueer? is that why people think i’m crazy for being supportive of queer cishets? is a person who identifies as their agab but has queer gender expression considered nonbinary or genderqueer? have i just been taking this “identity” thing too literally?

are gender and gender roles considered the same thing? because yeah, they are just about the same thing, but is that how other people view it?

typing this whole thing has helped a little with my thoughts but i still feel distressed and dysphoric as hell. i’m nonbinary, but still have a strong attachment to being female due to, you know, growing up as female and mostly conforming to the female social role, so seeing all this hate towards cishets makes me, by association, feel like shit, and seeing people constantly assume heterosexual attraction conforms to binary gender roles, makes me feel invalidated, invisible, and dysphoric. me being kin with a very gnc male character, who also experiences queer heterosexual attraction, makes it hurt even more and increases my distress and dysphoria.

like on tiktok? i saw some jerk say how “straight people shouldn’t use top/bottom” like??? first of all trans people?? second of all PEGGING?? like i said, i still feel strongly attached to being female, so this made me feel like garbage.

does the community consider those who do not conform to gender expectations as nonbinary or genderqueer? is cis used to refer to those who identify as their agab AND the gender and social roles that go along with it? am i the one who’s out of the loop?

feminine gay men (more specifically, mlm) are normalized in lgbtq spaces, but feminine straight and bi men when it comes to m/f attraction, aren’t, and are inherently assumed to conform to the male social norms. same with women, obviously, but i feel like it’s slightly more accepted with women.

even in bisexual spaces, m/m and f/f relationships are considered ‘superior,’ and m/f relationships are always assumed to conform to gender roles. by the lgbtq community, as well. people think m/f and het mean heteronormative, gender binary conforming. but it doesn’t. is there any sort of term or community for those who don’t conform to this? i’ve been meaning to make my own but i’d really rather not because i just don’t have the energy.

this is what i’m always talking about. this is why i thought so strongly i was just a cis girl that didn’t conform to the female social role. is my understanding of things just off? is being gnc considered genderqueer by default? and when i say gnc, i don’t mean a man who wears dresses or something, i mean men and women who don’t conform to the gender roles assigned to them because it’s who they are inside, not to make a political statement or whatever. i’m not gnc or nonbinary to make a political statement, i am because that’s just who i am.

anyway if i could just be a normal cis girl who isn’t exclusively attracted to femme men that’d be fucking amazing. sometimes i wish i was just a trans guy but even then i feel like i wouldn’t be completely happy since i’m just Not attracted to gender conforming men in the slightest. and yes, i’m bisexual, but lately it’s so rare that i’m attracted to women and when it comes to men, i’m exclusively attracted to femme men, not exclusively attracted to men as a whole.

so often i get jealous of trans men, gay men, and lesbians, and then i feel like an asshole because i shouldn’t be jealous but i am and i just wish i was one of them and not a fucking freak that doesn’t seem to fit any label or community properly. like my gay trans friend? i’m so jealous of him and i feel like an asshole. he has so much community and i have? nobody. i wish i was like him. i don’t know anyone who understands my attraction to exclusively femme men, and especially not girls who understand it. for a long time, you know, despite me feeling drawn towards the nonbinary label, i thought my lack of community of other women who understood how i felt and lack of representation, was why I felt that way, and I thus brushed it off as me being cis and confused.

knowing tumblr, someone’s going to see this and make fun of me or invalidate my feelings, as fucking always, so i don’t even know why i’m posting this. i just have nowhere else i can put it.

#long post #wren speaks #queer word