#i'd forgotten about how it was actually lxc who made an actual ARGUMENT in the wens' favour

[crossdressingdeath]

Someone on twitter actually posted something really interesting, where in Chapter 73 JC actually does say that he owes WQ and WN gratitude for what happened in the Sunshot Campaign, but no one (especially NMJ) really cares. While it doesn't excuse everything else he did and not saving the Wen's beyond that, it's really clear no sect wanted to give WWX his due or gave a shit about the Wens. (The section starts with "Jiang Cheng's brows were knitted." if you're interested.)

(To add to the Chapter 73 ask) I know you think the Nie's and Lan's were reserve troops and didn't know the truth about the Wen's, but reading that section makes me think that they did, or if they didn't, wouldn't have cared if they actually did. LWJ and JC (until JGS starts talking) are the only one's trying to defend the Wen's and WWX in this section, no one cares that JC states he owes them gratitude (though he should have said why). I just don't really see anyone caring about them, but WWX.

The reserve troop thing is based on the fact that a) neither sect is mentioned as really being part of the siege beyond... being there when JC led it, b) the Jiangs and (presumably) Jins felt the need to hide the bodies in the blood pool despite the dangers of that in a world where people who aren’t buried properly can come back and cause problems even without the massive injustice of their deaths and c) LXC doesn’t mention any civilian murder when WWX is recovering in the Cloud Recesses after being stabbed which I’m pretty fucking sure would’ve. y’know. come up at some point. Just putting that reasoning out there.

I would disagree with the assessment that JC’s offhand mention that he and WWX owe the Wens a solid means the other sects knew that the Wens were civilians, just because... he says nothing of the sort. His exact line is “We owe [WN] and his sister Wen Qing gratitude for what happened during the Sunshot Campaign”; he says nothing about how “Oh, and by the way, WN saved me and WWX from the fall of Lotus Pier at great personal risk and retrieved my parents’ bodies and his sister hid us and protected us and helped us rest and recover right under WRH’s nose and the Wens in that labour camp were largely civilians and medical personnel and a fucking child being tortured and murdered by Jin guards”. So no, I don’t think JC casually putting it out there that he owes WN and WQ and then refusing to say another word even when NMJ specifically brings up the fall of Lotus Pier, y’know, the thing WN and WQ saved JC from and in fact getting angry about the whole thing counts as him actually trying to accomplish something. Also note that in that same scene it’s LXC who points out that they have no evidence that WQ participated in WRH’s crimes and when NMJ says they have no evidence she tried to stop them (literally saying “If she responded with only silence and not opposition when the Wen Sect was causing mayhem, it’s the same as indifference”) JC, who has proof that she tried to help in at least small ways and on at least one occasion did oppose WRH’s actions, doesn’t say a single fucking word. And the fact that LXC speaks up (and actually puts more effort into it than JC does, mind, given he actually argues against NMJ’s point that WQ did nothing, if only briefly; JC, despite having more information, does nothing of the sort) suggests that actually if JC had given proof or even just his word that the Wens were innocent and were opposed to WRH’s actions... people would have defended them. Even NMJ’s argument is based on an assumption that WQ and her people approved of WRH’s actions, which JC could prove they didn’t. So no, him saying “Oh we do owe them a favour” and then refusing to defend them or explain the situation in any way beyond that even though he has enough information to refute NMJ’s reason for opposing the Wen remnants (and, as I feel may have been forgotten, later outright lying if only by omission to let the sects think that the Wen remnants were an army WWX was raising while knowing full well that that wasn’t even close to the truth) doesn’t count as him telling the sects that the Wens were in fact innocent people who had tried to help, nor does it mean the other sects knew what was going on and just didn’t care. One line followed by an outright refusal to defend these people he owes his life to even though he has the information to do so and later outright lies to make their situation worse does not a serious attempt to defend them that failed due to lack of caring on the part of the others involved make. 

Look, here’s the thing. At this point the Wens are being backed by the most reputable cultivator of their generation, with LXC clearly ready and willing to side with them if he’s given any reason to do so and NMJ’s argument against defending them being the understandable assumption that they were on WRH’s side and did nothing to prevent anything he did or aid his victims. WWX has, at this point, only killed the Jin guards who were torturing civilians. JC has information that would give LXC reason to help them and refute NMJ’s assumption. If he’d done that, really thrown his weight behind defending the Wens, it would’ve been three great sect leaders backing the Wens against just JGS, who being at least somewhat politically savvy would almost certainly fold under that pressure (and probably pass it off as a misunderstanding or something done without his knowledge, which frankly would be allowed because they just finished a damn war). JC chose to say nothing. This is not a case of him doing his best and the other sect leaders not caring or thinking the Wens deserved it. This is JC actively hiding evidence that everything in the text suggests would have changed their position. I don’t think JC having one line where he half-heartedly suggests that WWX did owe WN this much counts as a solid attempt to defend the Wens when he had far more ammunition he could use in this debate and chose not to. It’s hardly fair to say that this is proof of the other sects not caring or not wanting to save civilians when in this very chapter, the chapter wherein JC makes his one attempt to defend the Wens, it’s LXC who actually argues in their favour beyond one line (not JC) and NMJ’s argument likely comes at least in part from the fact that JC shut up after he brought up the fall of Lotus Pier as a thing that makes it weird that he owed the Wens (suggesting that whatever the debt was it was not enough to absolve them of responsibility there even though the gratitude he owes them is for making sure he survived the fall) and the rest is an understandable assumption based on the fact that WQ was high-ranking.

#mdzs #grapehate #hey but thanks #i'd forgotten about how it was actually lxc who made an actual ARGUMENT in the wens' favour #and how nmj's argument is entirely based in logical concerns that jc could've assuaged and chose not to #it would be a shame not to discuss that #anon #asks