#it possibly makes less sense though. i'm in extremely deep. connections are instinctive at this point idk if i'm explaining anything

[tyrannuspitch]

something i think is increasingly important to understand about baz as a character, especially given how meta carry on is, is that baz’s arc in carry on is literally not a “redemption arc” and was never meant to be.

fangirl was written in 2014. the fan culture it’s representing is not the fandom of today. the widespread fixation on objective and rigorous morality, especially demanding that a character’s moral status be justified by canon evidence above all, is a very recent innovation.

yes, one of the key questions of baz’s character is, “how can we spin an established villain as a good guy?” 

but the means of doing so is not redemption. it’s re-examining the evidence and casting the original main characters as unreliable narrators. and, especially, it’s not just drawing its evidence canon characterisation and events, but also from signs of narrative bias, subtle contradictions, and negative spaces.

the story cath, and subsequently rowell, wants to tell is not “here’s how baz could become a better person,” but: “let’s look at this from a new perspective. what haven’t we been told? what doesn’t add up? who does it serve to treat this character as a flatly evil villain? and if you try to make sense of his behaviour, who does he become? given how little insight the original narrative gives us, is it possible that he was never a bad person to begin with?”

and because carry on is the realisation of all these fan theories and headcanons, “baz was never a villain” is exactly as true as “simon and baz are in love”. this is quite literally canon.

to be clear, i’m not saying this is a better or worse approach to villains in general. (i feel like having one fixed opinion on “redemption arcs” makes about as much sense as having one fixed opinion on “love stories”.) but this is the approach that carry on takes, and understanding what the narrative is doing is important if you want to understand the characters.

i’m also not saying that baz has never done anything wrong, or never hurt anyone, or never experienced growth. what i’m saying is that:

he was not worse than simon

he did not hurt simon more than simon hurt him

his pre-canon relationship with simon cannot be accurately described as one of victim and perpetrator, but of enemies on equal footing

his moral status at the end of the Carry On is no better or worse than his moral status at the beginning

in fact... i feel like you could frame it almost the inverse of a redemption arc. he’s not repenting, he’s taking back his repentance. (again, not necessarily better, just a profoundly different emotional journey.)

even if we were to see the war as baz’s sole responsibility (rather than his and simon’s and that of the dozens of neglectful adults around them)... telling baz “you’re a bad person, but you can change” is not what saves or stops him. it’s what’s killing him. and it’s literally what’s keeping him tied to his role in the war.

baz already thinks he’s evil - not because he’s a villain, but because he’s a vampire. the desperate hope that he can redeem himself for his vampirism, that his vampirism makes him equivalent to a murderer and so he has a life debt to repay, is 90% of his motive for serving the old families in the war. his family are willing to overlook his vampirism only as long as he rigidly conforms to their ideas of morality, honour, and duty. 

fiona even says the difference between baz and nicodemus is that baz didn’t want to become a vampire - so, the definition of a good vampire is one who sees his own vampirism as evil. this is unhealthy on multiple levels - for one thing, it encourages self-loathing and self-destruction, but... it also encourages him to defer to humans as a moral authority. if accepting his own nature can only lead to evil, then he is only capable of good by outside intervention - only redeemable through obedience. 

this isn’t a productive path towards growth. this is a toxic and destructive cycle which will only ever get worse.

what baz needs to hear to survive and to leave behind his villain archetype is “you were never evil to begin with”. he doesn’t necessarily believe it, but that’s because no-one has ever told him that before. it will take time. but it is experiencing compassion for his monsterhood, being challenged on his negative assumptions about himself, and seeing that simon, of all people, might be a monster too, that gets baz to a place where he is willing and able to stop the war. seven years of guilt and shame never accomplished that.

baz’s arc is not one of redemption. it’s one of escape.

#carry on #baz pitch #cath avery #rainbow rowell #redemption arcs #original #i hope this doesn't come off as aggressive i'm just trying to be clear / thorough #hhh. barely containing the thousand word Baz Pitch Compulsive Loyalty Rant my brain has ready to go at all times #you're lucky i only gave it two paragraphs trust me x.x #it's also more interesting than me getting up on my hill and rattling off the reasons we have no actual evidence of baz being a bully #which is one of the main things ppl seem to talk about him being 'redeemed' for #it possibly makes less sense though. i'm in extremely deep. connections are instinctive at this point idk if i'm explaining anything #or just gesturing to my conspiracy board #co meta

[goldentemplariumcrow]

@strategiic || continued from here and adding these:

Corvus knew the group, but he didn't understand what they were doing there. Gotham was neutral territory, there was no... Oh, the race for a new ranking probably started and he was in the way. Either way, they shouldn't hurt Red Robin, that was against their rules, unless these weren't seeking a new rank, but working under someone else who wanted Dionisus out of the way and so wouldn't hold back in their methods to get to him in any way possible.

"Let him go! He has nothing to do with any of this!" He yelled at who seemed to be the leader of the group and was punched on the face for it, then there was a moment of silence and the man complied signaling to two other to take Red away. "Don't hurt him any more!" This was a growl he let out under his breath, audible enough that worked as a command to the duo as they walked away.

It was his time to be dragged away then, to where, Dionisus couldn't tell, the burlap sack over his head didn't let him see where they went, but he recognized when he was pushed in the back of a car and drove away.

Time ticked by slowly from the moment he was taken away to the end of months of torture. The group was more resourceful than most in their positions, and were certainly being paid well to do all they did. They tried to break into Dionisus head in all ways they could, through sleep deprivation, starvation, pain, chemicals, rape, humiliation, all they could try that wouldn't downright kill the blond in one go... and failed miserably in all their attempts.

To survive the ordeal, Dionisus pulled all he could of his mind back into the Piece of Eden stuck in his left forearm, all he knew, every person, every location, every single important memory that had some value, he let the relic take it and left himself with nothing; the husk of a body. The problem was that in such bad shape, all of that would be locked away until his health came back or, in the worst scenario, forever. Still, it was better than take the risk of telling on others or betraying the Order.

By the end of the time given to the group, they dumped Dionisus at some remote location nearby Gotham and went away.

Bruised and bloodied, with deep cuts all over his body, some even exposing muscles tissue, extremely weak, almost unable to stand on his own two legs, the blond made his way back to the city in whatever way he could; more by instinct than anything else, after all, where there's people, there's police and some sort of medical facility, and even though he hated hospitals with all his being, one would be the best location for him at that very moment.

He did what he could until help came his way and then, his world went dark.

Several weeks later Dionisus woke up to the soft sound of murmurs around him and the constant beeping of medical equipment. His senses returned in a slow and steady pace, first with his ears catching on the noises and voices around, next to the soft touch of the sheets placed over his body, the smells around wasn't the most pleasant to his nose, yet, not as strong as he remembered from other hospitals, and, finally, he forced his eyes open to see the room and who was around him.

The doctor was a familiar face to him. The slick red hair perfectly combed backwards, glasses balanced over his nose and freckles on the cheeks, that was his butler, Heine, who'd been with him since childhood and served both him and Emilio for as long as he could remember. It had been so long Dionisus last needed his medical assistance that part of him always forgot the man was trained and knew his craft very well. Emilio probably sent him from Italy to here.

The other man though... that one got Dionisus puzzled. Shorter than Heine by around a head, dark haired, skin milky white, pale blue eyes, dressed up in formal attire, and so worried it was possible to see the wrinkles in the corners of his eyes and, although he controlled his movements, his hands were shaking somewhat. He looked familiar... but Dionisus couldn't put together how or why, he was quite sure he never saw the man before.

Speaking of other people, he needed to go find Red Robin! He needed to find him and calm his nerves, because he was sure the vigilante was still out there looking for him after how they were ambushed.

A low groan rolled out of his lips when Dionisus forced himself to sit up, and both men turned to look at him.

Heine only shook his head in approval of seeing that his boss was awake again, but the other man... The other man smiled in a mix of relief and happiness through his tired eyes and tears pooled in their corners as he walked to Dionisus and wrapped his arms around him, clinging to his body as if he was the most precious thing in his world.

I thought I lost you.

He whispered the choked words, so much pain in his voice the blond felt bad for him, so bad he didn't want to speak, only wished to let him comfort himself in that moment. Alas, that would be cruelty though.

"I... I'm sorry." Dionisus started and gently tried to push the dark haired man back to see into his eyes. "I... You seem so worried... I'm sorry." There was no way to make it less painful, if they had any sort of connection the blond should be aware of, it would be a terrible crash. "Who are you again?"

#strategiic #》muse:dionisus #{ guilty aren't i of all my love crimes? } dionisus x tim #//bonus points if Tim went to Dio's apartment and found the engagement ring while they were apart #//all the pain and more