#they're both flawed and have legitimate reasons to not trust or like each other

[juniaships]

As much as I want to ignore Shrek the Turd I think it's a lot rewarding to address its flaws than take the easy way out. So here us a list of what I would've changed had I wrote the movie.

Harold's death

- the choice of song is rather out of place

- only serves to push a dramatic moment/shove Artie into the plot

- I actually like Harold :/

How to fix it:

- Harold doesn't die. Instead he gets an old man crisis & Lillian decides to take him on vacation to recuperate; naturally leaving Fiona and Shrek in charge

- Harold does die but the moment is treated with actual respect.

- Harold doesn't die BUT there is a death: Artie's father. The Royal Family go to Camelot for the funeral and meets Uther's estranged son Artie. That way Artie's daddy issues has more purpose in the story bc he truly can't reconcile with his dad, and Shrek a more sympathetic reason to steps up as a father figure.

- Alternatively, Artie's mom dies and he is sent to live in FFW bc his father doesn't want custody. So Shrek AND Fiona has to deal with a teenager and both have fear of parenthood byt still wants to give Artie the best. This also allows Fiona and Artie to interact with each other

Artie

Problem: suffers what I call Chicken Little Syndrome, he's kinda bland and we don't know much about him. Also his bullied nerd background Only serves to make him sympathetic cuz everyone is so mean to him! Beyond being kind and kinda dramatic Artie doesn't have much else

How to fix it:

- Everyone has beef with Artie because of his father's reputation. Perhaps Uther had a bad spending habit which left Camelot in financial ruin or his habit of flirting with women left a lot of illegitimate children now they're all fighting over rightful inheritance and puts down Artie bc he's the youngest/weakest

- Camelot has a very warrior like society but Artie is more diplomatic/soft, which makes him look weak in the eyes of everyone else. Eventually his softness saves Camelot

- Artie has a legitimate flaw (his trust issues) which makes him unable to properly communicate with others.

- Artie has a few true friends who are outcasts like him. But their support drives him to pursue a career in politics so he can help them and ppl like them (giving his speech more credibility)

The Princesses

Problem: most of them were boring at best, unlikable at worst.

How to fix it:

- Give the princesses more likable personalities: say they WERE strong and capable but got so caught up in glamor bc they don't want to remember the painful past

Problem: Charming and Rapunzel

- Comes right out of nowhere

- doesnt make since given Charming's arc is all abput becoming villain why would he date ANOTHER princess?

How to fix it

- Rapunzel's new motivation is she doesn't want an ogre on the throne, or she got tired of the princesses bullying her for her baldness. Or that she's jealous the princesses still have their princes yet Rapunzel lost hers. Or maybe Charming DID save her and she's working with him as a favor.

- However she discovers Charming is not as cool as she thought bc he still treats her (and any princess) like objects and not their own person

- Keep Rapunzel in the princess group and create a new character from scratch

- this new OC is a part of the villains not because she is one herself but because they're the only ones who accepted her for one reason or another. This makes her a foil for Charming and Godmother's relationship. She's wants to help them & save the Poison Apple from closing.

- however Charming is very bad at being evil so she teaches him how to be more assertive and this sets up a romance.

Issue: Arthurian myth

Problem: Aside from being retooled as a school campus, the Arthurian mythos doesn't have much prominence in the story

How to fix it:

-change the main goal to finding Excalibur or the Holy Grail (kiddie Monty Python)

- or have it where Camelot is in a crisis of succession so an election or tournament is held to decide the new king. Noblemen from all over participate (introducing us to the Princesses). Shrek and Fiona helps Artie while Charming joins so he can finally get his own kingdom

- Artie turns out to have magic instead of Merlin (who is just a wacky alchemist/scientist) but he lacks confidence

- At the end have it where Artie forms the knights of the round table (with some of the characters and villains as members)

- Maybe make Charming "Lancelot"

Girl Power Message

Problems: They were sidelined most of the movie, preventing Fiona from truly delving into her responsibilities as Queen. Also most of the girl characters like the Princesses & Guinevere were portrayed as shallow b*tches or not having much relevance

How to fix:

- Make Fiona the focus character this time and her story is juggling queenly duties and her trauma in the tower

- Have the princesses be an underground guerilla force they help her take out Charming during the movie

- or have it where the tower was actually a school to train princesses-to-be and Fiona's Kiss was part of a sceret test of character to see if she really is fit to be Queen; accepting her ogress form means she accepts EVERYONE, so she passed the test

- Fiona demonstrates her leadership skills by planning and carrying out targeted attacks, & taking care of civilians

- MAKE ARTIE A GIRL it makes a cool twist fitting for a franchise like Shrek. Or give Artie a female companion/love interest who accompanies him on his quest (perhaps Guinevere or a new character)

- instead of Merlin they meet Nimue/Lady of the Lake who takes the role of the kooky mentor

- Like I mentioned, explore why Rapunzel betrayed the team; perhaps make her have a change of heart and help her ex friends escape.

- Or like giving Charming a new love interest one who is a caricature of the Evil Sexy Villainess or YA Novel Girlboss Protagonist (have her learn it's okay to be vulnerable)

- have Shrek puss and Donkey be the ones in danger and fiona and her princesses are the ones to go on a journey to save them

Puss and Donkey's subplot

Problem: it doesn't do much to serve the story but for cheap comic relief. Donkey is a father himself but doesn't seem to do much to help Shrek and Artie

How to fix it:

- make Puss absent of stay with the princesses to help them

- Donkey talks with Shrek about his experiences as a father

- Remove the body switch entirely

- or have a subplot where Donkey and Puss still aren't getting along and Merlin switches them so they can learn to see from a new perspective.

- Maybe have Puss admit he doesn't have a good relationship with his own dad or something, or is actually great with kids (stunning Shrek and Donkey)

Shrek's arc

- Issue: we don't delve much into his backstory, he only wants to shirk his royal duties instead of doing the smart thing and actually confronting them

How to fix:

- introduce more Ogres or Shrek's dad. Have it be a family reunion or Shrek's dad finds out he married into royalty and that sets up the overall conflict

- Have the babies born before the movie and the plot is spent with him being a stay at home dad or caring for them while in Camelot while Fiona is tbe working parent

- also sets up an arc where Fiona struggles to balance mother hood and her job

- artie gets more used to ogre (children) leading to a realisation he has to step up to make a better future for their sake (again a more sympathetic reasoning)

The Villains

Issue: Charming is just Farquad 2.0, the rest seem to be props in their own story, Rapunzel

How to fix

- Make a new character who represents the villain side we get an intimate look at how society treats outcasts

- Give the villains more screentime like say we follow a group of them during theur trip to capture Shrek. They eventually have a confrontation and in the fray Artie ends up helping a villain much to their shock. They realise Artie isn't a threat. Or have it set at the play

- give Hook or Doris a prominent role

- or a new major villain; make it Charming's dad who takes him under his wing under the guise of wanting to help his son but is just manipulating him for the throne

- Make Charming struggle how ti adapt to being a villain due to his upbringing

- make some of the villains less open to wanting him in his group or have it where they try to help him be more evil (setting up potential jokes)

- Have Charming and Fiona have an actual moment with Fiona pointing out she did dream of a prince but is happy with Shrek and warns Charming that he still wouldn't be happy even if he did get everything

- Give Charming an actual villain love interest as a foil to Shrek and Fiona

- Don't include Charming at all (marry him off to Doris even lol) and create a new villain inspired by Arthurian lore. Maybe the Black Knight? Mordred? Morgan le Fay?

- Or even Artie himself! he wants to use his new position to enact revenge on his bullies

- Instead of the villains taking over it's the other fairytale heroes led by a jilted Charming and Shrek teams up with the villains to save FFW

- Make Uther the main villain

#shrek #dreamworks shrek #shrek 3 #shrek the third #rewrite #fixfic

[chaos0pikachu]

Can I say how vindicated I feel for being right about Kinn AND him calling out Porsche on his mistakes. Like the fandom is quick to spew at Kinn for breathing the wrong way but will gloss over Porsche and his messups. Equal treatment here folks.

What frustrates me about some fans treatment of Porsche is the baby-fication of Porsche. Like Porsche isn't also a flawed, well rounded, and interesting character and not a perpetual victim with no agency.

The latter is just not true!!!

Porsche is impulsive, which is why he chooses to trust Vegas - over Kinn?? Which is silly but also understandable, I get Porsche's choices even if they're flawed - b/c Porsche works more on emotion rather than logic.

I get bothered by some folks being like "how could Kinn not trust Porsche after everything!" But like, why couldn't Porsche trust Kinn after everything as well? Kinn gave Porsche his freedom, and was willingly going to live with another broken heart for Porsche's happiness and then took a bullet for Porsche. LIKE???? Kinn's proven time and again he cares deeply for Porsche.

"Well Kinn's never said he loves Porsche" neither has Porsche?? He's only used the plural of them both being in love with each other which Kinn didn't deny.

And this isn't me hating on Porsche, because I get it, I get his choices. Kinn is a difficult person to trust, especially for Porsche who was a civilian up until a few months ago. Porsche's reactions and reasoning especially given his overall character make sense to me. Like yeah it's a bit naive to still trust Vegas after everything, but I get why Porsche is still a bit naive about Vegas b/c of his line "they're your family"

Because Porsche is very loyal to the concept of family - I also assume it's cultural as well - as seen with Chay obviously, but also his uncle. So in Porsche's mind, while Vegas was shady, suspect, and clearly in competition with Kinn I don't think Porsche ever really understood that the major and minor families do not trust each other, and even hate each other. Porsche seems legitimately baffled by Vegas' bitterness towards Kinn.

So like, I get Porsche. I cringed when he ran away with Vegas, but like, I got it and I wasn't mad. Also, dramatic irony, like it wasn't a shock to us the audience that Vegas is an antagonist, but it was a shock to Porsche. It wasn't a shock to me that Vegas and Tawan were working together, that was a theory I had three episodes ago when Tawan showed up. But to Porsche it was.

But fuck I wish some folks would give Kinn the same grace. Kinn literally says he was coming to Porsche's cell to tell him the plan. Context clues and hindsight tell us Kinn was more than likely coming to the pool to tell Porsche the plan and oop there's fucking Vegas. And then immediately after Kinn's gotta jet with Tawan and then Porsche gets set up in front of the family - ppl keep acting like Kinn can just do whatever he wants but he can't b/c he's the god damn heir to a MAFIA family - so Kinn's gotta play along until he can finally get Porsche alone again.

The ending scene of today's ep showed that the main family needs proof of the minor family's actions. Korn couldn't just shoot Gun willy-nilly. And Gun played it up just right to be set up as a martyr. Tankhun says aloud what Kinn and probably Korn are thinking, that Gun knew about Vegas' spying and more importantly that Ken was the mole, but they don't have proof. The reason for the entire plan was to finally be able to prove Vegas was involved with Tawan and more importantly selling out the main family.

idk man I just wanna be able to scroll through ao3 without seeing a bunch of "waaah Kinn's an asshole to poor woobie baby Porsche" fics lol it's OOC for both Kinn and Porsche.

#sorry pikachu needed to vent apparently lol #chaos pikachu answers

[bananagator]

On Josuke and Rohan’s Relationship

I love the tension between these two.  One of the things I find interesting, however, is that they both hate each other but still make the choice to risk their lives for each other.  The arc of their relationship is fascinating.  Now obviously Rohan on his part has plenty of reasons to hate Josuke, one being that Josuke hospitalized him for a month.  Except when I rewatched some DiU, I think it’s a little more complicated than that.

But even before that, Rohan was really interested in Josuke.  He spent three whole months not knowing anyone else had powers like he did.  Josuke was one of those people in Koichi’s memories that Rohan found to be inspirational material for his manga.  Rohan was even somewhat impressed that Josuke could withstand his pen attacks in their initial encounter.  It stands to reason that Rohan would resent Josuke for wrecking his house and beating the shit out of him, though.

Except that’s not entirely the case.  After Rohan recovers from his initial shock at being pummeled into his own bookcase and then crushed by said bookcase, how does he react? He wants to know MORE about Josuke.  He wants to know his Backstory.  Then when he hears Koichi tell Okuyasu the story, he’s moved almost to the verge of tears.

Relatable tbh.

He says he’s happy.  I love the slight ambiguity here, too.  This is literally like that ‘they’d punch me and I’d say thanks’ meme.  Because of Josuke he gets to...  experience getting the absolute shit beaten outta him.  The fact that he practically squeals in terror mere moments after showing a warped sense of gratitude for the ‘experience,’ is hysterical. 

writing college essays be like.  ok but honestly this one kinda makes me a little sad because of reasons.  It speaks to how desperately Rohan wanted to be able to create stories that people would read.  He’s afraid of failure.

He’s probably more referring to the experience of getting to learn all those cool things about Stand users and being inspired to write for his manga than getting beaten up and crushed by his own bookcase, but it’s still funny.  It’s also ironic bcuz out of everyone in DiU, Rohan is probably one of the unluckiest dudes I have ever seen.  bruh....  I absolutely love that Rohan is deeply invested emotionally into certain aspects of Josuke’s life, without liking him as a person.  I know ppl have joked that Rohan has probably portrayed Josuke-type characters as villains in his manga, but I firmly believe that, whether or not Rohan would admit it, he’s inspired by Josuke’s life to make compelling stories, as well.

So how do we get to the essential roots of Rohan and Josuke’s mutual hatred? I will grant you, Rohan being hospitalized for a month would have given him time to calm down from his obsessed high and start to resent Josuke for hindering his ability to work on his manga via injury and breaking all his stuff.  The trade-off is that a whole new world of inspiration opens up to him and also inadvertently leads to Rohan developing his Stand’s abilities further (click here for my meta on the growth of Heaven’s Door).  Even though that doesn’t balance out the degree to which he got his ass kicked, I still don’t think the hospitalization is the real reason for their tension, or rather I should say, not all of the reason.

Ultimately, I think that Josuke and Rohan’s personalities simply mix poorly.  Josuke is terrible at telling lies and is prone to feeling immensely guilty when he thinks he’s suspected of wrong-doing.  Rohan is a highly paranoid, distrustful person by nature and hates being humiliated due to his pridefulness (which... reminds of Kira actually, but that’s another subject entirely).  Coupled with the fact that many of Josuke’s ideas tend to go very, very wrong, it’s a recipe for disaster.  This is highlighted in their gambling match.

Rohan can sense Josuke is trying to screw him over, and he fixates on it, to a point that he doesn’t even care about his house burning down in the moment.  Why? Because Rohan’s pride is at stake.  Not only that Josuke heals him even though Rohan was unable to figure out the secret, which damages his pride even further.  It’s only following the events of this that Rohan passive-aggressively tells Josuke he’s upset about his stuff getting destroyed.

This is critical groundwork for the Highway Star incident.  Josuke is burning with guilt at what he did to Rohan.  Josuke is a poor high school student who wishes he had more money, but he certainly didn’t expect or want things to escalate as far as they did.  Rohan resents Josuke for the humiliation.  I think it's worth noting that Rohan says he was holding back anger towards Josuke for Mr. Joestar’s and Koichi’s sake (not that I feel he did a very good job of it, but he did at least try, the implication being that Rohan has started to show more awareness of others’ feelings, even though he still has difficulty dealing with people socially).

What upsets me is that Rohan is very intent on capturing Kira and worries about potential victims, but Josuke doesn’t realize this about Rohan, who does a lot of behind the scenes work.  The last time they really interacted was when Rohan almost killed Josuke’s friends.  Aside from that Josuke sees Rohan being a jerk to some random kid (Janken Boy).  His attempt to invite Rohan to sit at the table with his friends is interesting given that Josuke openly admits to Joseph a little later that he dislikes Rohan.  He’s probably just going through the motions of politeness since he doesn’t look terribly thrilled about asking Rohan to talk with them.  Koichi no doubt told the others everything that happened in the Ghost Alley, but even Koichi is like, ‘Don’t trust him too much, he’s pretty sketchy.’

Rohan was desperately trying to warn Josuke about the illusion in the tunnel.  He deeply cares about what happens to people.  This is evident in Janken Boy, and I think its placement in the story is very important in showing how Rohan’s character has started to really evolve.  I will fight you on this.  Josuke, who has no reason to trust Rohan and is immensely guilt-ridden about cheating and inadvertently leading to... over 7 million yen in damages to the guy’s house, lashes out at Rohan.  There’s mutual distrust going on.

Rohan is angered that a guy who was blatantly humiliating and attempting to rob him would dare to consider him a liar.  It’s understandable but so ironic.  Rohan is actually a pretty honest person.  When it comes to serious situations or his feelings about people, he's almost always upfront to a point of rudeness.  Yet it’s this same abrasive personality that makes him seem so untrustworthy to others in DiU.  Over and over, Rohan tries to help in his own way and warn the others of danger, but he gets shut down.  He still tries anyway. 

When Rohan is struggling against Highway Star, he’s clearly relieved and shocked Josuke came back.  The main difference between this situation and Koichi saving him is that Josuke doesn’t get to see Rohan’s reaction.  What I love about Rohan is that, like Josuke, he is not the type who abandons others, even if he doesn’t know or like them.  You could call it his sense of pride/ego, or a strong-willed conviction, or an incessant need to be an arrogant dick, but the simple fact is that he refuses to betray Josuke and is fully prepared to die fighting alone.  Rohan warns him to stay away, and he’s angry that Josuke fell into the trap because of the stubborn contrariness that Rohan hates so much (I have meta on this, but another time).

Meanwhile this is the first time Josuke has ever witnessed Rohan being a decent human being.  He’s so thrown off that Rohan would choose to sacrifice his life, but he vows to save Rohan no matter what.  And previously, Josuke has almost always referred to Rohan in a rude form of address (not usually to his face directly but I like that this goes both ways), but that changes in this arc. 

The thing that really kills me is, at the end of the day, Josuke genuinely tries to apologize to Rohan.  He’s realized that Rohan is more than an asshole.  He was telling the truth and sacrificed himself to protect Josuke.  Rohan having the social skills of a walnut refuses to let Josuke finish apologizing.  I really want Josuke and Rohan to reconcile, but I can also understand that it will take a LOT more for them to be on good terms.  I wouldn’t want to just hug it out with a guy whose fool-ass tried to rob and humiliate me, especially when you consider Josuke went to such great lengths to cheat too (though I personally feel like his being able to break into Rohan’s house to switch the dice seems more of a convenient plot device but shh). 

I think there’s many reasons why Rohan doesn’t want to hear Josuke’s apology, one being that he doesn’t want to be indebted to Josuke (and he makes it clear he doesn’t consider it as such because he hasn’t forgiven Josuke for all the shitty things he did prior to this incident), because he’s unable to read Josuke’s behavior and has trouble taking kindness at face value, because he’s still bitter that Josuke healed him without his approval from before, etc.  However, I think the fact that Rohan calls Josuke an idiot indicates he does care in his own way.  Josuke’s refusal to listen put his life in danger, too, and Rohan was trying to prevent that because it would’ve meant they’d both get killed.  Rohan does not like Josuke as a person, but he shows concern about him, and the opposite is also true.  Much as they try to avoid dealing with each other, they are forced to cooperate by circumstance, and I like that.

#JoJo's Bizarre Adventure #JJBA #Diamond is Unbreakable #DiU #Kishibe Rohan #Josuke #meta #my writing #long post #jojo spoilers #i just love the layers of complexity to their characters #they're both flawed and have legitimate reasons to not trust or like each other #incidentally based on some of the one shots i do believe they slowly get on better terms #fyi i have only watched up to part 4 and am reading the manga as English releases come out #so no spoilers but i hope I get to see them have more interactions later on #i did post about this but i think it's kinda charming that Josuke is all 'let's go see Rohan in prison' at the end #i have many other thoughts but i think this post is long enough for now