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ladyluscinia · 6 months

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What Exactly Did David Jenkins Say?

Look, I'm still staunchly of the opinion that Word of God statements and creator interviews are overvalued in fandom, especially when they get pulled out mostly as gotchas without then continuing to analyze whether or not the show canon is successful at getting across that same message. Death of the Author is good, actually, and we should remember that. But they are worth looking at in the context of evaluating intent vs execution, and for future speculation - just, like, please with less of the whole mile high pedestal idolizing and backlash cycles.

But if overvalued "Word of God" is annoying, then overvalued "supposed creator statements that have gone through three rounds of telephone and any given blogger has only heard about a quarter of them, which they'll use confidently anyway" is worse. So, since I'd already looked up interviews for various reasons...

Here is a fairly comprehensive list of interviews David Jenkins has given and statements he's made during them, presented without commentary (save curating which statements get highlighted). All provided with links. I definitely missed some, so if you have any that you want to add, please do - though if you could trim off any commentary and save it for tags / your own post with a link that would be cool.

Also, again, just because he said it doesn't make it incontrovertible canon that only a blind person wouldn't understand. Some of these even arguably contradict each other. The creator's intent doesn't always translate to what the show is doing, nor do you even have to think it was a good idea.

(Listed in chronological order from oldest to newest - post contains spoilers below the cut)

Pre-S1

Gizmodo - Feb 22, 2022 - with Cheryl Eddy (io9) - Link

Why this story - Really, it was the enigma of Stede that drew him in. "I think actual pirate stuff is fine, but it's not necessarily my cup of tea. And I think Taika [Waititi] felt similarly. But hearing about this guy and reading about him and seeing that, you know, he left his family, then he met Blackbeard, they hit it off, and we don't know any of the details in between. So filling those blanks in, and having a very human story, and then being able to do it with the pirate genre, that was like, 'Oh, this would be cool.'"

Post 1x01 - 1x03

Polygon - March 5, 2022 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

About Stede running off to sea - "Stede thought he could outrun his baggage, and you can't outrun your baggage."

About S1 - "I don't think there was enough improv on set! We had an insane schedule, with a huge amount of plot. We were budgeted and designed as a one-hour show, but with a half-hour production schedule, which means we really had to chase these episodes to get them shot. And then there are certain emotional beats that we really needed. So trying to find places to find the fun was hard."

Mashable - Mar 5, 2022 - with Belen Edwards - Link

About the show concept - "It was Jenkins' wife who first told him about Stede's adventures; she thought it would make a good TV show."

On casting Rhys Darby - "Stede did a terrible thing to his family. If you cast it wrong, he's a very hard character to get behind," Jenkins said. "Very quickly, the only person I thought of for this was Rhys [Darby]. He has this childlike quality that's endearing."

About the story - "Seeing them discover a need for each other that neither anticipated and charting how that relationship goes is the meat of the story." + "If you're on this ship, you're running from something, and you're running to something that you can't be on land"

Mentions of matelotage - "In fact, one of Jenkins's favorite pirate facts that he learned while working on Our Flag Means Death was the term matelotage, which was a civil union between same-sex pirates. "The more you look at it," he explained, "the more you write to the fact that this is a queer-positive world.""

Discussing piracy careers - "Something else that astounded Jenkins about pirates was "just how fast it all moved — their lives were quite short," he said. "Your career [in piracy] wasn't very long.""

Post 1x09 - 1x10

Decider - Mar 24, 2022 - with Kayla Cobb - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

Pitch for the show - "That was in the pitch," series creator David Jenkins told Decider. "That was the reason, to make them fall in love with each other."

About the romance - "The main thing to me was to side-step coming out," Jenkins continued. "I just want a romance. I want a Titanic romance between these two people. We don't have to do the coming out story and then the non-binary story for Jim [Vico Ortiz]."

About S2 and the show - "The show is the relationship," Jenkins said. "So, we end in a place where there is this breakup. What happens after a breakup between these two people who, one’s realized he's in love and the other one is hurt in a way that he's never been hurt before? What does that do to each of them in an action, pirate world with them trying to find each other again? So again, I really love those rom-com beats."

Collider - Mar 24, 2022 - with Carly Lane - Link

On making it a romcom - "It's the only reason to make the show. If you didn't do that, it would just be weird. I mean, you're using the rom-com beats. You're using these like they're together. And it's funny because so we're so habituated to be like bromance, bromance, bromance, and it's such a simple move to put them together."

Discusses focusing on romance - "I guess I really... I get kind of bored. How much pirate can you do? They're going to rob stuff. They're going to steal ships. There's only so many pirate stories you can do. So if you're going to do a workplace story, I mean, you're essentially having this... You'd have this same amount of relationships in Grey's Anatomy in the ER. So it's standard. It's the most standard. We're making a soap opera on a pirate ship, and to use those soap opera beats... I like it, and I like the flavor in a comedy when you have something that's played genuinely up against very ridiculous things."

Discusses history and kissing scene

Discusses importance of going home to Mary - "Yeah, that was the problem for me in the story. I knew that I wanted to have the end where he goes home, because you need to give Mary her day in court. I just wanted to know from Mary's perspective what happened and then to see that, yeah, they're friends."

Is Lucius dead? - "You got to wait."

EW.com - Mar 25, 2022 - with Devan Coggan - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

Pitch for the show - "To me, [Stede and Blackbeard's relationship] is the reason to make the show," Jenkins explains. "When Taika and I were first talking about it, he was like, 'Oh yeah, that's the show.' I first started reading about Stede and how he befriended Blackbeard and we don't know why. Very quickly, it was like, 'Oh, it's a romance.'"

Polygon - Mar 25, 2022 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discusses 3-season intent - "I think three seasons is good. I think we could do it in three."

Discusses acts within S1 - "To me, when you see him get stabbed, and the blood runs through his fingers, it’s like 'Oh, no, the clown got stabbed! And not comedy-stabbed, he got stabbed stabbed!' That to me is cool. And then having Blackbeard find him as the end of what would be the first act of our story felt good to me."

Discusses kiss scene filming and the national moment around gay rights

What to focus on a rewatch - "I think Con O'Neill does such a great job. He's such a complex character, and it's such a tortured relationship. And that's a love story too, between him and Blackbeard. It's a very dysfunctional story, but it's fun to watch. Watch that maybe, on a rewatch, looking where their relationship ultimately goes."

TV Insider - Mar 25, 2022 - with Meaghan Darwish - Link

Discusses show pitch - "When I was pitching [the show] to people, I'd be like, 'Okay, so it's about Stede and Blackbeard, and then they hit it off and then they fall in love.' And then people are like, 'Okay, cool,' Jenkins shares. "And then they really fall in love, and become intimately involved."

Discusses historical inspiration

Discusses S2 direction - "But when [Stede] goes to find [Blackbeard], he's gone and his crew's been abandoned. And so watching them try to negotiate that, that's a good rom-com beat," he adds.

The Verge - Apr 15, 2022 - with Charles Pulliam-Moore - Link

Discusses being surprised by queerbaiting legacy - "...part of me knew that, yes, Stede and Ed's romance was going to be real. But one part of me felt like, 'We're going to do this story, and they're going to kiss, and maybe that's not even going to be that big a deal. Maybe it'll just be a blip.'"

Discusses writing romance - "I'd never written a romance before this one, but I think with Ed and Stede, the question's always 'what's the need for each other?'"

Discusses falling in love and Stede's accidental seduction - "It made sense to have that love be almost like a teenage version of falling in love — one with all these intense and conflicting feelings. They're middle-aged, but Stede's young. Ed's young. Emotionally, they're like 16, and they've both got a lot to learn."

Discusses Con O'Neill as Izzy - "He plays an exhausted quality that's really lovely because this character could just be generically evil, and the way Con plays, it is like, he's credible. I believe that he can do some damage if he wanted to. My favorite thing I've seen about the show is somebody saying that Con's playing the only human with a bunch of Muppets. It does feel like that a bit where he's like Charles Grodin in The Great Muppet Caper."

On Izzy being in love with Blackbeard - "I think Izzy's deeply in love with Blackbeard, and it's a very dysfunctional kind of love, and he's like the jilted spouse who's losing his man to fucking Stede Bonnet, and he can't believe this is happening."

Discusses masculinity and piracy as an escape from that

Discusses diversity and trauma based stories - "And the consensus in that very diverse room was that we wanted to show that isn't just wallowing in trauma. We don't have to do a coming out scene or focusing on the trauma of it — not to say that those stories aren’t valid."

Gizmodo - Jun 20, 2022 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Musing on fandom response to the show - "I'm wondering if the fact that because the queerness of this show isn't gaslighting the audience, and isn't a function of wanting to do something, but not being able to produce the results because of network standards. I think we just happened to be in this lucky spot where the show is actually queer… and I do think that people are responding to that."

Comparing fanfiction to writing - "And Con O'Neill's audition was one of those things I would go back to. I would watch that and be like… Oh, right, that's the show. And in a way, you're writing fanfiction for a certain actor and character because you want them to do something, and you're like–" at this point, it must be said, Jenkins let out a maniacal little giggle. He’s just as thrilled to show off Con O'Neill's ability to seem both deeply exhausted and menacing as the rest of the fandom. "And you [as the writer] you're like… And then Izzy does this now."

EW.com - Dec 13, 2022 - with Devan Coggan - Link

Discusses The Chain sequence - "I had initially wanted that end sequence to be like the FBI raid in a mob movie, where the feds come in, and they've got boxes of stuff, and everyone's running, and someone makes a dash for it," Jenkins explains. "So, it's like a mob movie or FBI raid story, and then it's also a story of Stede's lover coming back."

Pre-S2

Collider - Oct 2, 2023 - with Carly Lane - Link

Discusses fan reaction to S1 - "I thought that they'd kiss, and people would be like, 'Oh, cool, cool!' I kind of thought people would know a little bit more [about] where we were going, but then in hindsight, no, people have been hurt and burned on so many other shows and then made to feel silly."

Discusses starting S2 dark - "One of these characters is very, very damaged and has never made himself vulnerable in this way before, and I don't think [he] would react very well to having his heart broken in this way. I don't think it would be cute, and I don't think it would be funny. I think it would be scary as hell to watch a very damaged guy that we've established in Ed, who killed his dad and thinks he's not capable of being loved, deal with rejection and see that Stede really hurt him."

Discusses adding more female characters

Discusses S2 needle drops including "This Woman's Work"

Discusses 3-season arc

Post 2x01 - 2x03

Mashable - Oct 5, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

Discusses fandom response to S1

About the canon gay relationship - "To watch the explosion of enthusiasm around [the kiss] was disorienting, almost," Jenkins said. "I thought people would react to it, but I didn't think the reaction would be that big. And then it was moving, because I didn't realize that this audience felt so unserved in general, as far as storylines go."

Insider - Oct 5, 2023 - with Ayomikun Adekaiyero - Link

Tease on leaning into the Stede / Ed / Izzy love triangle - "I think Izzy, in a certain way, got the worst deal in the first season," the showrunner tells Insider. "He gets jilted and then he still is in spurned spouse territory at the beginning of the second season."

Discusses Izzy's arc - "What is that relationship about? And I think by the end of the season it kind of becomes a little unexpected of who they are to each other and what they mean to each other," he teases

Discusses addition of Zheng - "He likens Zheng's way of pirating to a successful tech startup, compared with the garage sale vibe Stede had going on the Revenge."

Discusses introducing Hornigold - "I thought Hornigold was the most obvious because he was the person who made Blackbeard what he is. And Blackbeard has a father complex, so it's natural that he's going to bring his former captain back," the show creator said. "It's a struggle with him because he and dad figures don't historically do well."

Discusses importance of the mermaid scene

Inverse - Oct 5, 2023 - with Hoai-Tran Bui - Link

Reveals he didn't commit to the romance until shooting 1x06 - "Jenkins always intended his pirate comedy to end with a romance, but he'd envisioned it as an unrequited love. "It was going to be about Stede learning what love is, and Ed making himself vulnerable and getting burned," Jenkins says of his original pitch. But Darby and Waititi's choices in the scene, which they played without diffusing the tenderness with a joke, made him wonder if they could take the show in a new direction."

Discusses mermaid Stede idea from S1 - "We talked about Stede as a mermaid very early on in the writers' room," Jenkins says. "At some point, yeah, I want to see Rhys Darby as a merman." + "They wanted us to come up with a Season 2 pitch during Season 1. And that was one of the ideas we hit on, and I can't quite remember how we got there, but it was us asking, what is a pirate world? Are there mermaids? Is there magic in this show? With pirate stuff, I don’t know that I want there to be magic, but there was a way where it was something really beautiful about a mer-person, and I like the idea that their coming together would have a mythic size to it."

Discusses historical divergence

Discusses matelotage and pirates as weird outsiders

TV Guide - Oct 5, 2023 - with Allison Piccuro - Link

About the shipping culture - "It's the meat of the show, so it's great to have people bought into the central romance. If it were a bromance that we were trying to make look like a romance, that would suck."

Discusses playlists he makes

Discusses opening dream sequence - "I just like that it started with something badass. Stede, Blackbeard, and Izzy are on an arc together. Whether they're in stories together or not, their ultimate arc is together. I think, by the end of this season, the last episode, that first scene will be gratifying. I won't say why, but their fates are tied together."

Discusses Kraken arc - "But I think the thing that's good about this show is that it can go to really sweet comedy land, but I want there to be, like, if someone loses a body part, for instance, they lose a body part. To do justice to the fact that this guy is a killer and a monster, and dealing with heartache that he doesn't know how to deal with, I think you really need to go there."

Discusses Izzy in S2 - "I mean, he's jilted. He had a partnership with Blackbeard, and he knows he can't live up to this person that Blackbeard fell in love with... Who is that guy? What are his hobbies? What does it look like when he's not totally subsumed with his boss's love affair with somebody, and heartbroken?"

On S2 reunion - "The second season is them being a little bit more mature... It's the thing where you're in your 20s or 30s and you're like, "Well, should we move in together?" They have to make up some time because neither of them have been in a functional relationship before."

About genre of pirate stories - "...is a show about multiple relationships. That's what I want to see when I see this show. I don't want to see a bunch of pirate things that I've seen in other things, I'll just go watch another thing if I want to see that. That's not really my thing. I like the genre, but it's a very hard genre to budge. I want to see relationships in a pirate world."

Discusses the A Star is Born aspect of seeking fame / retiring

Mashable - Oct 7, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

About the mermaid scene - "You need something expressive for when they come back together," Jenkins said. "Their reunion moment has to feel big and mythical. This is not a world where mermaids actually exist, but their love for each other has that size that you can get [a mermaid] in there somewhere."

About Kate Bush - "I love Kate Bush, and I love that song, and I know Taika loves that song," Jenkins explained of the choice. "So I wanted to find a place for that song somewhere in the second season."

Polygon - Oct 9, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson & more - Link

Compares S2 and "Golden Age of Piracy" stuff to Westerns, lists 5 he was thinking of - "Every Western that’s good is that story," Jenkins says. "'This way of life we made is coming to an end. It can't last. It's a blip in time. We created this thing because we need it to exist. We're outlaws, and we need a culture that suits us, but it's running out of time.'"

Gizmodo - Oct 9, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Short tease on leaning into the love triangle

About Stede, Edward, and Izzy - "I think the three of them are on an arc together that's pretty inseparable," Jenkins said in an interview with io9. "And to watch Izzy try to process what's happened [in season one]… to watch him kind of grow and figure out what's his own story, if he can separate himself from this kind of toxic relationship, is interesting to me and I think gives him a lot of room for growth."

Post 2x04 - 2x05

IndieWire - Oct 12, 2023 - with Sarah Shachat - Link

Discusses directing and show creation

"The limitations of the show also naturally push it back towards moments with the ensemble and plot problems that it would frankly be irresponsible to tackle if you had a giant budget and a fully working ship-of-the-line to sail and then blow to bits. "That's the fun of the show to us, I think. If you open this up and you're like, unlimited budget, that would be terrible because I think you can get seduced," Jenkins said. "[It could be like,] 'Oh man, it's all leading up to a climatic battle on the sea.' And those things are great. But that’s not this show.""

"The nice thing about that, though, is you get to be the lo-fi show that’s like, 'Hey, we’re making The Muppets.'"

PopSugar - Oct 12, 2023 - with Victoria Edel - Link

About S2 Stede - "I like the idea that he learns and grows and he doesn't just stay a bumbling captain. He might be ridiculous, but he is getting better at it."

Discusses genre challenges - "How do you have a show that's a romance show but it's also a workplace show and they're criminals?"

Discusses Edward's redemption - "But Blackbeard still has to come back and apologize and be part of the community again, and give his little press conference. It was fun for us to look at that in the context of piracy, where they all do terrible things to each other. But even by their standards, what Blackbeard did was a bit much."

Discusses Izzy in S2 - "When Izzy shoots Blackbeard and they all mutiny on him, that's Izzy breaking up with Blackbeard. And they're both having their own journey in the wake of it, and Izzy's having his own redemption arc. He's trying to figure out, "Who am I if I'm not Blackbeard's first mate? Who am I outside of this relationship?"" + "If Stede's Spongebob, he's Squidward. I don't know what that makes Blackbeard. But there's a real pathos to Squidward."

Discusses trauma-based narratives - "As a diverse room in terms of sexuality, socio-economic background, and race, we thought, "Wouldn't it be nice to have a non-trauma-based story for these characters who don't get that historically?""

Variety - Oct 13, 2023 - with Hunter Ingram - Link

Discusses three act structure and making Stede work for a relationship - "The way I like to look at a season is in threes. The end of the first act is when they find each other, and this is the beginning of the second act. They've found each other, but they are pissed. Stede thought it was going to be [Kate Bush's] “This Woman's Work,” but, in reality, it is this headbutt –– literally."

Discusses the central romance - "It was always part of the pitch... that is the reason to make the show. The pirate genre is fun, but I wasn’t dying to make a pirate show. Taika wasn’t dying to make a pirate show. But the thing that was interesting to me was that Stede finds love, and he finds it with Blackbeard."

Discusses 2x04 plot - "This episode is based on a very, very thumbnail sketch of "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?." Anne and Mary are Martha and George, and they are Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton."

Discusses adding historical pirates

Discusses Buttons exit - "I just love the idea of him turning into a bird: I love the idea of Buttons somehow being the one character that is able to figure that out."

Discusses Izzy and the crew's trauma plot - "We liked the idea that there is something about trauma and getting past that trauma, even on a pirate ship. They have been through two very different ways of living and they have to get used to each other again. But it's also a family that was separated, and becoming one family again is painful."

Discusses bringing characters back - "We could bring Calico Jack back, who, if you remember, was hit by a cannonball last season. Anyone who is that fun to play with and wants to keep playing, you always find a way to bring them back."

Polygon - Oct 14, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discusses 3-season arc and how keeping them apart with some plot device was never in the cards - "at the end of the first season, they're 14-year-olds, emotionally. In this season, it's more like they’re in their late 20s."

Discussing New Zealand production and ensemble cast writing - "It's pretty organic, because as we're going through and tracking everybody's journey for the season, we're watching the thing that holds us together — what stage of Stede and Blackbeard's relationship are we in? Because the overarching arc is, are these guys going to learn how to settle into a relationship?"

"The second season is more overtly about romance, and more a relationship story."

Energizing aspect of fan reaction

S3 is about "love is work"

Gizmodo - Oct 16, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

About the story - "I want to see them become a functional couple or fail to become a functional couple," Jenkins said. "Those are the most interesting parts of the show."

Discusses fandom engagement - "...ultimately the writers are also "the fans in the room." He goes on to say that, "We're fans of the world. We're writing fanfic about our own characters, our own worlds… It's paid fanfic, but it's fanfic." He gives another example: "If you're writing a season of Succession, you're writing fanfic Succession. You're just getting paid to do it. We, as writers–" it's clear that he's not just talking about the writers in the writers room, "become fans of the world and we all have things we want to see these characters do. What we do is not that different."

Discusses the A Star is Born aspect of seeking fame / retiring

Discusses Zheng Yi Sao

Villains of the series - There are a lot of new villains this season, but, Jenkins says, ultimately, "the antagonist on this show is normalcy… These pirates have a way of life that they're not finding in normal life. They've found a way to live and support each other and be there for each other. And that's always threatened by these larger, tyrannical forces that want to shut them down."

Post 2x06 - 2x07

Mashable - Oct 19, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

Discussing drag performance in 2x06

"It is nice to see with Izzy's arc, where he finally breaks through whatever he's been doing to himself. He lets himself have that moment, which I just love. It resonates for Izzy, and I think it resonates for Con. Just personally, it made me feel good to see how it turned out."

Consequence - Oct 19, 2023 - with Liz Shannon Miller - Link

Discusses intent for romance - "...telling a love story in a serialized medium like television has its perils, largely because it's tough to know how much you can draw out any unresolved tension. "I think we take it episode by episode and we try to not piss people off in taking too long and doing double beats and triple beats," Jenkins says. "You can only do Will They or Won’t They for so long. Then you have to deepen it.""

Discusses pirate setting - "The emphasis on relationships also fits into the show's high-seas setting, which Jenkins finds similar to post-apocalyptic narratives. "It is a little bit like you're doing Mad Max, except there's relationships," he says. "Stuff's shitty, so you gotta try to find some joy. Of course, people are going to have a need for each other in these extreme circumstances, and I like the idea of these characters finding some level of a healthy relationship in these extreme circumstances.""

Discusses Jim x Archie

Discusses 3-season arc

Polygon - Oct 21, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discussing gender and power dynamics in Jackie x Swede / Zheng x Oluwande / Blackbeard x Stede + A Star is Born aspect

Jim not being jealous of Oluwande - "I think that relationship was always seen in the room as a friend relationship that got romantic."

About adding a villain - "I think a lot of the internal forces in Our Flag are the villains." + "I think this is a story about the age of piracy coming to an end. This way of life is coming to an end. And every Western that's good is that story: This way of life we made is coming to an end, and it can't last. […] I think every story about outlaws is about trying to preserve a way of life against normative forces that are kind of fascistic."

Historical accuracy - "The balance of the show is 90% ignoring history, and then 10%, bring it in, whenever we're like, Ah, gotta move the story forward! Remember, the English are out there, and they're really bad!"

Post 2x08

AV Club - Oct 26, 2023 - with Saloni Gajjar - Link

Killing Izzy was always the plan - "We wanted to show the depth of that character. Izzy is one of my favorites. He's like middle management who is in a sort of love triangle [in season one]."

Discusses how they really wanted the happy ending for S2 - "I think with season one's end, it was a gamble to leave it the way it was. Everybody stomached through it. Now if it turned out they didn't want us to make more, I just didn't want to have another story where the same-sex love story ends in tragedy, unrequited love, or if one or both of them are being punished."

Discusses S2 progressing the 3-season romance - "They’re a couple who is like in their late twenties right now as opposed to being teens at the end of season one." + "It was an interesting tension of, which one gives up their dream? A lot of times in relationships questions can come up, like who is going to give up on their dream to take care of the kids? Obviously, no one wants to, but someone ends up giving up more than they want to at some point. What's wonderful about a mature romance, and what I'd want to see more of in season three, is Ed and Stede making these tough decisions." + progressing past the getting together point

Discusses parallels, Republic of Pirates, and Zheng Yi Sao

Short bit about fan response

Collider - Oct 26, 2023 - with Carly Lane - Link

Discusses Ed leaving fishing - "I like that he had a little prima donna moment where he thought he could go and be a simple man, and then it's revealed that he really isn't a simple man; he's a complicated, fussy, moody guy. No, he's not gonna be able to catch fish for a living. For him to be told that, "At your heart, you're a pirate. You have to go back and do it," he doesn't want that to be true, but it was true."

Discusses Izzy's speech to Ricky - "I wanted to give Izzy a proper eulogy for himself. He gives a eulogy for himself, but it felt true writing it."

Discusses Izzy's death scene - "In a way, it's very much for Ed, that speech. The "we were Blackbeard" is claiming that he is also Blackbeard, that Blackbeard is not just Ed’s creation, and I like that for him, too, because he's worked so hard for that — and then just to say, "You can give it up." There can never be a Blackbeard again as far as Izzy's concerned because he's dying, and they did that together."

Discusses Republic of Pirates / music parallels from premier to finale

Discusses finale wedding - "We knew we wanted a matelotage in the season, which is the real term they had for marrying crew members. And yeah, they've always been in relief to Stede and Ed, and they're a little bit ahead of Stede and Ed in how much they can talk about things. So to have a bunch of family things in the season, like a funeral and a wedding, and have the parents kind of watch the kids sail away, felt right, and all of those things seem to work well together and build on each other."

Discusses retirement ending - "That will-they-or-won't-they is interesting to a point, but the real meat of it is always like, "Can they make the relationship, and can they do better than Anne and Mary?""

"Frenchie's in charge of the Revenge" + teases Stede struggling to give it up

EW.com - Oct 26, 2023 - with Devan Coggan - Link

Discusses Izzy's death and telling Con - "It feels like the logical end of Izzy's arc. It's heartbreaking to me because he's my favorite." + "I told him in the middle of shooting because I didn't want him to find out at the table read, obviously. I also didn't want it to leak. He was lovely about it."

Discusses Izzy's final arc - "You know, I didn't expect him to become kind of a father figure to Ed. I think we hit on that while we were breaking the [final] episode. He's in such a weird position: He's like a jilted lover, and then he's a middle manager who has to work for a terrible boss. He gets thrown away, and then he comes back. He really develops, and he becomes a part of this family. I think the biggest surprise was the extent that he was a mentor to Ed. They were both Blackbeard. They both made Blackbeard happen."

Discusses the happy ending intent - "With this season starting so dark, I kind of wanted to reward them for the work that they've done and the character growth that they've had. I wanted to leave them in a place where they're really going to try and make this work. I don't think it's going to be easy for them, necessarily. They're both still immature."

Discusses the wedding - "We knew we wanted a matelotage in the second season, and pretty quickly we landed on Lucius and Black Pete. It seems like they were ready for that. We made up a ceremony and everything, where they call each other mateys, and it was just fun to make our own version of a pirate wedding ceremony."

Discusses potential S3 and Frenchie's Revenge - "But it felt like a good place to end the second season. It felt like a contrast to the first season. If it turns out we don't make any more, I'm comfortable with that being a resting place."

Variety - Oct 26, 2023 - with Hunter Ingram - Link

S3 endpoint - "I love things in threes," he says. "That first act, second act, third act structure is so satisfying when it is done well, and you don't overstay your welcome. I think this world of the show is a big world, and if the third season is successful, we could go on in a different way. But I think for the story of Stede and Ed, that is a three-season story."

Discusses the draw of a "Golden Age" and it's ending

Talks about father figure Izzy and wanting a real sense of loss - "There is a nice parallel to have Ed treat him so badly at the beginning of the season and then come all the way around to where Izzy is this sort of father figure he doesn’t want to lose — because Ed usually kills his father figures."

Gizmodo - Oct 26, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Teasing future Izzy - "Jenkins looked slightly sad himself, saying that "Ghosts exist in this world." I told him not to make promises he couldn't keep."

"Jenkins said that he doesn't see Izzy as a pure antagonist in season one because on some level… Izzy was right in his hesitations about Stede."

Discussing Con O'Neill & Rhys Darby acting

Jenkins confirms the season was always 8 episodes due to budget cuts

About S2 finale vs S3 - "The first season ends on such a downer, so it made sense to end the second season in a kinder spot." + "I think there's plenty of story left for season three, but I think that it was important to end this as if it was the end of the show, and on upbeat note and avoid the kind of "kill your gays" trope. I don't want to see Stede and Ed punished for giving it a go. I want to see them really say, 'yeah, we’re going to we're going to try to have a relationship'."

Teases S3 revenge against Ricky and going to the Americas

Vanity Fair - Oct 26, 2023 - with Sarah Catherall - Link

About the ending - "It's bittersweet. There's death and there's the rebirth of Stede and Blackbeard's relationship; there's a funeral, there's a wedding, and the idea that this family is going to keep fighting even as they lose members. And then it's about belonging to something." + "A lot of times, with this narrative of characters, same-sex relationships end on a dour, downbeat note, where one of them dies and it's unrequited or it's unrealized; something horrible happens and they're punished in a way. So it was important to leave it open and a lot more show to go, but also leave it in a place where it's happy."

Discusses Izzy as a mentor / father figure - "We felt like Izzy's story had reached its conclusion, where we put him through enough. And then there was the realization that he is kind of a mentor to Blackbeard and that he is kind of a father figure to Blackbeard." + "And it's also a pirate show, so he's got to die."

Discusses filming challenges - "It's a big show; it's basically a one-hour show that we're doing on a half-hour budget."

Discusses adding Zheng Yi Sao

Is the show a queer romance? - "For this show, it's important to me just to write a really bold-bodied romantic show that happens to be between two characters of the same sex. I think that the story beats don't matter, because if you've been in love and you've been hurt and you met someone you love—hopefully we all know what those feelings are."

Blackbeard's arc in S2 - "...the second season is about Blackbeard's midlife crisis. And then when they both have their midlife crises, they can open a B&B together." + "I don't think Stede and Blackbeard are ready to be married. They're emotionally saying: 'Let's give this a go.'"

Discusses historical piracy as "counterculture" that's been straightwashed and whitewashed

Did he feel responsibility to the fan community? - "As opposed to responsibility, it feels more like relief—that people feel seen and they feel good about it and they liked what we did. And so it feels like, Okay, somebody's out there and wants the show. The makeup of the writers room looks a lot like the makeup of the fan base. So as long as we're true to our stories in the writers room, I think we just feel excited that there's somebody waiting on the other end to enjoy it."

Paste Magazine - Oct 26, 2023 - with Tara Bennett - Link

Discusses whether fandom expectations felt weighty - "I think particularly for this season, that "bury your gays" thing… I didn't want to end on a downbeat for Ed and Stede. We did that in the first season. I like that there's a lot of different flavors. It's even a little melancholy because the Republic of Pirates got blown up. But there's still more good things."

Discusses production and plotting - "I wanted to start at the Republic of Pirates this season and end at the Republic of Pirates. And I knew I wanted the Republic of Pirates to be destroyed, ultimately. Within that, we are making a one-hour show on a half hour budget, on a half hour schedule."

Discusses planning the ending - "In terms of ending this season, it all felt right just in talking through it when we were in the room. It felt pretty intuitive. When you get to the third act of the story, things kind of settle in. There's gonna be a funeral. We always knew we wanted a wedding at the end of the second season. And I knew that I wanted Stede and Ed to start an inn together. So once you have those beats, it's kind of locked in."

Discusses Izzy's arc - "It's kind of a strange arc in that I knew we were going to put him through all these things, and I knew he would ultimately die. But I think him becoming a father figure to Ed in the last episode didn't really dawn on us until we were breaking the last episode. Asking what would this man say to Ed at the end because they've been together through everything? He went from a troubled and downtrodden employee to a jilted lover to a discarded employee, to someone that is just trying to find his footing again—no pun intended—to actually becoming this guy's parental figure on some level. And he's one person who kind of raised Ed right, because Blackbeard usually kills his parental figures. So, it felt right and it felt like that's how the mentor dies. The mentor in a story usually dies in the second act and then our hero has to go on and try to do it without them. It felt like the right journey for Izzy and a gratifying one for Con."

On leaving open for S3 - "I don't think it was a very hard thing to do. I think it was more that I felt a responsibility to leave Ed and Stede in a good place, at least for now. It's not gonna go well. They're not going to run a business well. Ed's too much of a talker. Stede can't focus. It's gonna be challenging."

Vulture - Oct 28, 2023 - with Sophie Brookover - Link

Discussing Izzy as a "father figure" and his S2 send-off being a priority

Meaning of piracy - "...what our pirates stand for is a life of belonging to something larger than they are in the face of a crushing, slightly fascist normalcy."

Re: Con O'Neill & Izzy's death - "I had to tell him about halfway through the season"

Third season about the work of a relationship between still damaged main characters

Discusses middles as about change and transitions, and wanting characters to change instead of reset, have them experience permanent consequences

About the final scene - "...Ed and Stede as the parents kind of watching the kids take the ship. Frenchie's the captain now..."

Objective of the crew - "...have had terrible things happen to them at the hands of colonial forces, so they want some payback. Party, plunder, and payback — the three P's."

Metro Weekly - Nov 1, 2023 - with Randy Shulman - Link

Discusses historical premise of S1 and easing into the romance

Discusses S2 genre - "In the second season, it was great because we know it's a romance and we can lead with that. It's a workplace show essentially. I wanted it to be more in the vein of early episodes of Grey's Anatomy or something where there are all these relationships on those shows. That's what you’re following — relationships and friendships that are taking place in a hospital, procedural. That's Grey's Anatomy. This is less procedural for the pirate stuff — and you need the pirate stuff."

Discusses not being into pirates - "But I'm like you. I'm not a big pirate person. In general, it's a big creaky genre that's hard to budge" + "Pirates of the Caribbean, those movies are great. That's not necessarily what I hunger to see, but in that genre, it's great. You're not going to beat that, especially on something that's lower budget. We've seen a lot of this stuff, so it's fun to take it then and don't do any of that stuff."

Discusses adapting historical piracy - "You don't want to see them punch down. You don't want to see them do terrible things to people who don't deserve it, which is not what they really did. So, in the show's world, I think piracy is like a stand-in for something. I think it's a stand-in for being an iconoclast and an outsider and queer in some ways and just different." + "Yeah, I mean, the British are there to be Stormtroopers, or Nazis in an Indiana Jones movie. I mean, they're in there to die essentially."

Discusses diversity staffing

Discusses performative masculinity

Discusses Izzy's death, happy endings, and openness to S3

#trust me i appreciate the irony of making an extensive word of god reference when i want people to stop blindly promoting word of god #(and also when i'm currently very irritated with the creators)#and fyi showrunners talk A LOT but i was already committed so this was more work than i was expecting #i'll even use a small bit of my extra hour of destiel day to post this (most of it was assembled while watching supernatural)#our flag means death #ofmd #ofmd meta #david jenkins #word of god #ladyluscinia

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maxwell-grant · 7 months

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Any thoughts on AKI in SF6?

I haven't had a chance to play the game yet and I might do a more thorough look into the newcomers after I do sit through World Tour, but yeah I got some AKI thoughts. Holy shit what a design. Top 15-20 in the series, it is one hell of a different thing to watch it animated by the character's personality and moveset and vibe. We expected some FANG-isms, some Juri-isms, but certainly not that. We expected a cold, even generic assassin, not someone who merrily treats the penal code like a list of chores.

It was pretty funny seeing the reaction to her develop from "oh she's FANG's apprentice, okay I guess, not sure anyone was asking for that", to "is she the new Juri, she's got a really similar vibe", to "holy shit Juri's got NOTHING on her". In reaction to her popularity, SF6 had been doing a lot of great character work on Juri that, while making her much more developed and entertaining as a character (cringe failgirl Juri was such a revelation) and dramatically more interesting as a person, also really limits the extent to which she can be a straight-up villain anymore. Much like how FANG was designed to fill the void left by Sagat, AKI here crashed the scene to fill the void left by Juri, and so she gets to be not just completely 100% horrible (where as Juri is like, 70-80% horrible), but also SCARY in a way Juri never could be. She gets so, so much out of not being designed for sex appeal and coolness first and foremost, she's like the D'Vorah to Juri's Mileena.

She's a horrible, predatory character, and much like Marisa, I don't think she would have been allowed at all to exist the way she does had she debuted prior (you just know they would have not given her those sick ass pants or given her a different haircut or a cleavage window or something stupid like that). The development team for V repeteadly stated that there were ideas for a new assassin apprentice character related to Gen thrown around and that some of those made their way into FANG and Seth, and AKI is the end result of that very long refinement process. She's the resident freakshow character in the tradition started by Blanka and Dhalsim, and she's the outrageous over-the-top counterpoint to the more traditional martial arts like Chun-Li or even Jamie (much like Adon, or Necro). She's the understudy of the kung fu assassin villain, and in a way akin to Menat she's the young new apprentice of a prior character who acts as a stand-in for that character on the roster and driven to prove her worth before said character, while also being a modern do-over of said character.

(And for the record I actually like FANG quite a bit, a lot more than most of the other V characters. He played like garbage and his execution was lacking and couldn't make up for a terrible first impression in the fanbase, but the design and character and concept I thought were very solid and I'm glad AKI shows they didn't give up on it but took steps to improve on it, I'm glad to see him again in 6).

She breaks new ground for the series by leaning strongly into a horror wraith vibe no other character had before, and she's the Street Fighter equivalent to characters like Voldo, a horrible contortionist slasher villain who doesn't fight you so much as she just passionately and exquisitely butchers you while getting off on it. Her moves are incredible, superbly characterized, she feels vicious and oppressive to watch but still hits that note on FANG's where the playstyle is meant to be tricky but overspecialized and beatable at close range. And while she's designed to be a much more explicitly serious and deadly-looking character than FANG, they even give her goofy little flourishes like blowing bubbles shaped like FANG (and getting pissed if you pop them), his propensity for bird-like arms flapping, and an uncharacteristically childish victory dance akin to Chun-Li's.

She is as cadaverous as Juri is tempestuous, openly referring to herself as a ghost, and when she isn't losing her shit in contorting fits of laughter over success, she has a remarkably chill, upbeat disposition when spouting horrible things to the protagonist or fake poisoning them for laughs. She has an incredibly distinct personality more so than any especially developed inner life, and that's kinda the point: that she has wholly and completely sublimated herself to her role as FANG's tool, by choice and intent of her own, and that's part of why she's a real deal villain.

She was raised by him, she likes what he likes, she is obsessed with everything he is and has done and will do, hates everyone that isn't him, considers him her master and teacher and father and husband all in one, and her romantic fixation and love for him is meant to be deeply disturbing in every way imaginable (and only not a total dealbreaker for me because FANG in no way reciprocates or encourages it or is able to do so, even AKI understands as much), and that they may eventually have to kill each other doesn't deter her one bit.

Despite those surface similarities, there is quite a lot that sets AKI apart from Juri, chief of those being that Juri was victimized by Shadaloo and in response fashioned herself into an instrument of vengeance and turned monstrous as a result, where as AKI actively chose her life and chose being molded by someone else, running away from home and following FANG every step of the way without any regret. Even FANG himself had little choice in his own life, kidnapped as a child and forced to partake in horrible training under which every day could be his last, raised to value nothing but survival at all costs.

Perhaps this in itself is the strength that FANG saw in AKI, that she gets to choose and does so with far greater intent than even himself. That she's someone who could fully understand the horribleness of the Nguuhao methods and lifestyle and want for that and nothing else, to consciously partake in such grueling torture of mind and body and lovingly decide that she can't get enough of it.

And in itself this pairs interestingly with the very idea of giving FANG a dedicated protege sidekick, a character beat that the series has come back to again and again, and takes on an entirely different tone here. I think a lot of what makes AKI's obsession interesting to me in a way these usually aren't, is not just because it's creepy, but because it's ultimately sad and pathetic, and parallels FANG's own craven worship of Bison. It's such a great dynamic, a miserable cycle perpetuated by miserable people caught on the wrong side of that glorification of self-improvement, inner strength and the great heroes and masters who can pass it onto others that the series uses so frequently, and it makes AKI even greater as a character for it: because now we have a true dark mirror for the driving motivation of many of our characters. We have our fucked-up toxic counterpart to every Sakura, Mika, Menat, and Sean out there.

She sees him as he saw Bison and more, and the fact that she is much more threatening and overtly competent and scary than FANG is offset by the fact that worshipping Bison is a wholly different thing than worshipping, y'know, FANG. We comprehend, on some level, FANG's worship, because M.Bison is supposed to be, at minimum, a cool imposing megavillain we're meant to like on some level, which is certainly not true for FANG. SF6 has been very clear on that, that even though he's been given a much slicker outfit, and is keeping a low profile to plot from behind the scenes, this is still very much FANG, every bit the conniving, petty control freak from before.

AKI is a cool, hypercompetent death machine able to scare the pants off the main villain, and she labors desperately day and night, to the point of crying if she fails, to meet the approval of a ridiculous, pathetic man who, no matter how deceptively cunning or dangerous he may be, is only cool to her. Much of why I think FANG worked and was necessary in the first place was because he was designed around the vacuum left by the Four Kings and to contrast them, as what kind of man would it take to work himself ragged running Bison's schemes and being unfailingly loyal to him and Shadaloo, opposite Vega and Balrog's sporadic barely-there alliances and Sagat's outright betrayal. We needed an anti-Sagat, a proper bastard of a Number 2 to run the show in secret. And AKI adds a lot of poignancy to that in that she is much of what FANG can't be, even as she wants nothing more than to be like him.

It's one thing to have somebody who really looks up to and makes an effort to imitate the cool and impressive and heroic World Warriors, or someone influenced by imposing villains like Balrog or Sagat but ultimately decides to carve their own path. It's another thing entirely for maybe THE most obsessive protege character in the series, someone who actively has no identity outside of servitude to her master, to revolve around FANG, the dastardly bird man, who made his debut in a story by hunting down and melting an innocent woman, and grossly and animastically licking her ashen remains off his fingers. What kind of person would decide that this sickening, vile creep is deserving of worship and following until the ends of the Earth?

(art by @remy2fang)

Well, maybe the same kind of person who would consciously look at the likes of M.Bison in the first place, someone they intuitively understand "will reign death on all living beings", and upends their life on the spot towards becoming that man's eternal servant. Someone who seeks self-fulfillment through no other means than the pursuit of strength and knowledge as tools to subjugate others and appease their master. The darkest corruption of the master-student dynamic that defines so much of the series. You couldn't ask for anything more fitting, for the poison specialists.

#replies tag #street fighter #fighting games #capcom #a.k.i.#f.a.n.g #aki street fighter #aki sf6 #fang #sf6 #street fighter 6

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maniculum · 3 months

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Bestiaryposting Results: Almlaeni

Here are the results for this week's bestiaryposting; as always, anyone who doesn't know what that's about can see all previous posts here: https://maniculum.tumblr.com/bestiaryposting.

This one, I think, really illustrated to me how differently one perceives these entries when one knows what animal is being described. There was a particular detail in this week's entry that I thought was an absolute dead giveaway as to the identity of the animal, but most of the commentary I've seen from the artists indicates that they didn't see it as obvious, which was a relief -- I think the harder it is to guess, the more fun this whole thing is. (Yes, you're not supposed to try and guess it at all, but on the more obvious ones like the Gligglae I see a lot of comments along the lines of "I'm pretty sure I know what this is", so there are indicators whether people know.) It probably helps that it was a longer entry, so there's a lot going on. I just think it's worth noting because of the conversation recently going around regarding what's obvious to the author vs. what's obvious to the reader.

The entry we're working from can be found here:

Art is below the cut in roughly chronological order.

@silverhart-makes-art (link to post here) started with the thought that an example of an animal with strong jaws is an ant. But given the description of manes and fur, this is probably a mammal, so we get an "ant-lion" that they describe as looking "like he should be an alien pet in a sci-fi movie or game", which I think is spot-on. Good design for a weird alien pet. I really like the execution of the "ant's head but mammalian" concept, and the coloring of the mane looks really cool. Some more detail on design decisions can be found in the linked post.

@sweetlyfez (link to post here) does note that she thinks she knows what this animal is -- but, in the spirit of the thing, intentionally avoided drawing that -- so we'll have to see how identifiable it is at the end of this post. She's also provided her own alt text, thanks for that. I find this design really charming -- the blend of porcine and feline makes for a good silhouette in my opinion, the pose looks cool, and the rainbow mane is quite pretty. I particularly like that the tuft of hair the entry says is a love charm is drawn to resemble a heart.

@cheapsweets (link to post here) has drawn a rather frightening-looking beast, here shown nipping its own paw after accidentally stepping on a twig. (They also provided alt text, thank you.) There's a lot of interesting design choices here -- explained in some detail in the linked post, check that out. We can see a stocky, muscular head and chest, showing that this animal has the strength in its jaws and chest mentioned by the entry, paired with kangaroo-like legs and tail to give it the leaping capabilities mentioned. Also, this picture shows an Ethiopian Almlaeni in summer, which is why it is bald except for a bit of fur on its mane and tail. The shining eyes, I think, are what really gives this animal an unsettling appearance.

Cheapsweets also would like to note that they're "on the lookout for some good resources for animal anatomy and musculature", so if anyone has any suggestions, please send those their way!

@pomrania (link to post here) has given us this creature that is very much A Mammal but it's hard to pin down anything more specific than that -- it makes me think of the sort of old engravings that archaeologists just kind of give up on categorizing as specific animals and end up just calling them something like "the [culture/location] Beast". It's kind of feline, kind of equine, and it has what Pomrania (accurately) characterizes as a greyhound-like build. This impression is aided by the pose and the line work -- I don't know, there's just something about it that makes me think "this should be on the wall of an old tomb somewhere." I like the vibe, is what I'm saying. Very good beast.

@coolest-capybara (link to post here) has selected a couple of the elements in the description that stand out and taken them to their most dramatic interpretation. The Almlaeni can jump in such a way that it seems to fly, and it can live on the wind -- what if it has bat-like wings it can glide on? (Someone else noted "live on the wind" as possibly suggesting flight depending on how you interpret the ambiguity of the phrase, but discarded the idea; here we're running with it.) The result is quite a fearsome beast; that face is downright scary. We can also see here sensory organs adapted to hunting at night, and strength concentrated in the front of its body (which probably helps with those wings). And of course the stylization is excellent as always -- the linework is very convincingly medieval and I swear I've seen illuminations with that exact style of starry background. The linked post describes the design decisions in a bit more detail. (Also thank you for providing your own alt text.)

@strixcattus (link to post here) put this up after I drafted the rest of this post, and from the text of their post I think they guessed the nature of the animal, so take all references to it being more difficult to identify than I thought with a grain of salt. They also describe it as "a little freak (affectionate)" which is definitely an accurate description of the creature they've drawn. I really like the combination of different types of animal you can see here. The pose comes from a pretty reasonable interpretation of a couple points in the original entry: they can leap really well, but most of their strength is in the front half of their body. Therefore, obviously, they must use their front legs to jump and to propel themselves for rapid motion. Excellent direction to take that, I think. As usual, I strongly recommend clicking that above link and seeing the details Strixcattus writes up for their beasts.

And now, the Aberdeen Bestiary version.

As you can probably gather from this image, this week's animal is the wolf. And I think it's an interesting peek into the medieval imagination to see how fierce that wolf looks. The shaggy fur, the fangs, the eyes -- it's striking. That looks like a fairy-tale illustrator decided to draw the Big Bad Wolf in such a way as to frighten children. All the best wishes to our heroic little dog up there.

I also like the interestingly-symbolic depiction of the sheepfold: it kind of looks like our sleeping shepherd keeps his flock in a TARDIS. And, of course, look at that lovely Stylized Tree in the background.

So yeah, it was the bit about them sneaking up on sheepfolds that I thought made it Too Obvious that the Almlaeni was a wolf. Glad that didn't turn out to be as much of a tip-off as I thought.

As for the Ethiopian wolves mentioned: damned if I know what they were thinking of. Jackals and African wild dogs can be pretty colorful, so there might be something there, but I wouldn't describe them as having manes. My best guess is that the original animal being described was a black-backed jackal, but it's hard to be sure what, if anything, the grain of truth is here. (There is an animal we call the "Ethiopian wolf", but it looks more like a coyote than anything, so I'm not seeing the "colorful mane" thing.)

The thing about this is that medieval authors were very much ignorant of that part of the world. "Ethiopia" to them was much like "India" -- to the modern ear, those are countries we're aware of with a defined location, and we can go read about them if we want. To medieval Europeans, both were just kind of vague geographical blobs: they knew these places existed because they heard about them from classical sources and/or from trading partners, but there was virtually no direct contact or reliable information. These were distant and mysterious lands to them, and as a result they were willing to believe just about anything regarding what those places were like. (Also, if you see "Ethiopia" in a medieval text, don't necessarily think the region we now call by that name -- it tends to just be an umbrella term for "sub-Saharan Africa".) So, leaping maned wolves? May or may not be based on anything real, and if it was, it's been Telephoned to death by this point.

#maniculum bestiaryposting #almlaeni

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queensectonia · 8 months

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last night i was reminded of one of my extremely few Hater Moments (lighthearted) about this series and i never got around to fully articulating my thoughts on it, so it is once again time for our regularly-scheduled kirby rant:

the spider sectonia reveal was poorly-executed on every level.

to start with, this plot element was introduced when the series was in its worst throes of Not Putting The Fucking Lore In The Fucking Games, but I will happily concede that this reveal was at least in a game; just not the game it should have been in.

I almost wonder if the Sectonia Clone as a whole was a leftover from the fact that Robobot started out development as Triple Deluxe 2, but considering that a) TD2 was dropped pretty early on and b) Robobot is just full to the brim with fanservice and callbacks anyway, I don't feel there's much evidence for such a theory.

at any rate, reducing the otherwise very intriguing reveal of Sectonia's prior form to a blink-and-you'll-miss-it easter egg in an entirely different game is pretty... underwhelming. we've had plenty of "reveals" or cool nods and expansions to other lorebits in similar easter eggs, but none of them were nearly as important as "oh, by the way, here's what the character whose whole arc revolves around personal and physical image used to look like! in a totally unrelated game!"

but that's the tamest complaint. that's just the accessibility of this information, which could have been better but certainly could have been worse.

the biggest problem is Sectonia's design. it's bad. it is just not good, fellas. she is literally just genderbent Taranza. it fails visually, it fails conceptually, and it fails really hard story-wise.

this design was so uninspired that when people in the EN sphere first saw it, tons of people thought it just was Taranza. then when we got screenshots, model rips, etc., it was still so painfully similar to Taranza that it made people assume HAL was saying Taranza and Sectonia were related - which turned into just as much of a shitfight as you might think.

even if this weren't attached to such a crucial character reveal, it's just downright a bad design! instead of taking even the slightest efforts to differentiate Sectonia from Taranza, they did the laziest, most barebones "uhhhhhh what if taranza But Girl" design shift possible. she's wearing the exact same outfit as Taranza, just palette-swapped. so little effort went into both the concepting stage and the modelling stage. she's just Taranza's model with the merest tweaks to make sure you know this is a Girl Spider.

genuinely, I would be a hundred times more amenable to this entire plot point if HAL had just bothered to give her an actual design.

but the problem is, making Sectonia a spider kind of just fucks everything about her story and contradicts itself at multiple points.

the aesthetic and theme language in TD is very clear. this is one of the biggest strengths that both it and Robobot share - the identity and literary through-lines of both games pervade every single visual element of them. Robobot tells its tale of capitalistic tech-fuelled colonialism through every part of the game from level backgrounds, to enemy designs, right down to surgical decisions like mechanising the pinwheel tree that was such a fond image from KRtD. every tiny thing bore the mark of the HWC, whether metaphorically or literally, such that you spent the entire game never forgetting that there was one unified force behind all of this, and Haltmann at the end of the game was the culmination of this aesthetic.

TD did the exact same. every part of TD sells that it's a fantastical fairytale romp through a series of themed locations with a connecting thread of the invading Antr* force.

*(this is a way better romanisation than "antler" this is my hill)

if anything, I'd argue that TD's design language in this respect is tighter than Robobot's, because Robobot had a fairly broad theme of "industrialisation and hi-tech space future sci-fi" to draw its foes from, whereas TD had to condense its antagonists under the stricter banner of "evil insect army".

and they did incredibly. every point of design about the Antrs points straight to Sectonia and draws from her in some way or another. it's absolutely seamless. she's the perfect logical endpoint of Antr design from every angle: she's the literal queen bee of this insect hive and the perfect expression of their anatomy. she's bigger than the biggest Antr. she's more developed. she's more powerful. they were so careful and thorough about this design conceit that Antrs have multiple stages that all march straight up to Sectonia. we go from the tiny bronto burt and waddle dee clones with their little wings and eyes that seem so familiar, to the Antr soldiers, all the way up to the Lord Antrs who are one step away from Sectonia. they have stripes and facial markings to echo hers. it's all wrapped up with the genius bow of combining ants, bees, and wasps: they're all hymenoptera! the metaphor goes even deeper than that because there's a species of wasp that parasitizes spiders! controls them, even!

... except no actually, we've decided she's a spider too and all of that buildup and artful design means nothing.

it's awful. it's taking what is far and away one of the best-executed designs in the series and saying that all of that buildup and blatant connection of ideas meant nothing.

but that's just the visual end of it. Sectonia actually being a spider makes no sense in the lore, either.

first of all, TD's incredible design sense and artistic direction applies to Taranza as well. while he's obviously derivative of Magolor, within the context of TD he's clearly meant to evoke the sky fairies. he's designed to look much more like them than any of the insect characters. he's got the same body type, he moves the same way as them, he's a sky fairy with a spider theme. the game draws visual parallels between him and the sky fairies more than once; this is not unintentional.

this is part of what makes Taranza's role as Sectonia's right hand more impactful: he's only insect adjacent, and the design language would have you believe he's more closely related to the fairies than the insects, so him being with the bad guys is notable and interesting.

so why would a spider character be the ruling monarch of the insect hive? why would the line go ant, bigger ant, fancy ant, armoured ant, spider, wasp?

I mean, shit dude, the miiverse posts directly tell us that Sectonia used to "look like her insect underlings". it really feels like the decision to make her be a spider was a total spur-of-the-moment one, between how badly it interacts with the rest of the story and how lazy the design was. Sectonia's backstory had a couple of holes in it regarding the actual timeline of things, but those were just mysteries regarding what order everything happened in. she was both a bodyjacker and a good queen at one point, which don't exactly jive, so it becomes interesting to think about how those two facts coexist. on the other hand, her being a spider just gets shoehorned in there for no apparent reason other than to... heighten her connection to Taranza?

and that just dovetails into the complete mockery HAL made of Taranza's character development after TD, and THAT is a rant for another time.

there was just no point to it all. Sectonia being a spider adds nothing, removes a bunch of nuance and intrigue, and muddies both her story and the background world of TD.

#kirby #queen sectonia #truly the laziness of the design is the most insulting part #i'm not lying i'd love this WAY more if they put even a shred of effort into it #christ this one was long and rambly. this isn't a topic i have overly-organised thoughts on other than ''wow that's bad''#ANYWAY ENJOY

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sciderman · 6 days

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YES SCI YES YOU GET IT

like. okay, i dont think david way's run was AMAZING. it was flawed!! i think it struggled a lot with the execution of its ideas especially since there wasn't more natural flow between the comedy and more serious aspects, they interfered with each other a lot. HOWEVER. if you ignore the execution and just look at the underlying concepts behind the stories in way's run you start to appreciate it. way had such cool and fun ideas (i may be cringe but i really do like "evil deadpool" as bad as that name is not necessarily as a character but conceptually and as a medium for wade to Work Through Shit) and i think he may be gets a bit too much shit for it.

(i do, however, hate that way's run was basically the only reference material used for the deadpool game bc they stripped any more serious moments and themes from the run and JUST did the lol random humor and did irreparable damage by painting deadpool the taco memes guy and nothing more)

((also i might reread way's run now too :] ))

oh i have THOUGHTS about the deadpool game

way's run had such an impact on deadpool's pop-culture presence and my god. i think it was the timing of it, being at peak rage-comic icanhascheeseburger meme era of the internet where people would share panels out-of-context for the haha funnies and so that kind of was just how people were exposed to deadpool. deadpool became like, the comic equivalent to like, trollface or something

it's kind of over now, we kind of have a more complex deadpool out there doing his deadpooliest - and i can't say i miss the era of 7 different deadpool books and all of them being cringe incarnate. but i do miss the playfulness of way's era of deadpool. i think duggan and poeshn literally. actively did everything they could to "normalise" wade. make him like everyone else.

get rid of the boxes ✔️ give him a wife ✔️ give him a kid ✔️ put him on the avengers roster ✔️

i don't know, it was kind of a huge endeavour to make him normal. he still had all his misery, sure, but it became a lot less fantastical and probably more...? relatable? to your average straight middle-aged guy. but i think it's a shame, because i do like fantastical. i think it's fun to get fantastical with it. these are fantastical characters. so i love the grand hallucinations and indecipherable nonsense. i love the creativity. i love not-normal.

i think wade is boring now. comics wade is boring. he's boring, he's cutesy, he's not the weird messed up problematic fave that i fell in love with. i miss the problematic parts of him, instead of him just being a pity-fest. i miss his weird brain. i don't know what's going on up in there anymore. maybe dua lipa's "dance the night" en loope, maybe that's all that's going on in wade's head right now. yeah.

#sci speaks #sci talks comics #deadpool

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elbdot · 1 year

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Jesus christ so hey congratulations on completing tha dubs! Excited to experience them later this month 😄

I do want to take this opportunity tho to ask about your overall thoughts on S&V? Like what you think of the stories, characters, and....Paldea's possible inclusion in these comics 👀?

Excited to hear your thoughts!

OKAY I've gotten a bunch of Pokemon S&V Questions since November and now that I FINALLY played through the game I can FINALLY answer them HERE WE GO

POKEMON SCARLET AND VIOLET IS... GOOD

IS REALLY GOOD

It has some really nice storylines, some weaker, some stronger, I REALLY liked the characterization of all the Team Star Admins (even though the team's backstory is a bit all over the place), Arven was my favorite, followed by Nemona and Penny is- Penny is certainly there 😶

Geeta is not really a memorable champion...I don't really care much for her, but I do find it interesting that she's apparently quite unpopular amongst the Gym leader for her strict management. I don't think we ever had an in-universe unpopular Champion before.

My favorite part of the game was undoubtedly exploring the region with my Pokemon! Taking on the Gyms was more of a chore I had to do to be able to catch and train higher leveled Pokemon but I gotta say, the Gym challenges were always really fun and sometimes I reseted my game just to play the mini-games again :D

But I THINK I spent the most time trying to take selfies and pictures of me and my Pokemon whenever something fun happened or I found a really nice location or the sun was about to set. Taking photos is a HUGE hobby of mine and games that give me this kind of freedom with the photo-option are a HUGE plus in my book (You have NO idea how much time I spent in the USUM Photo Club Mini game)

I gotta say tho the Pokemon of this Region...?

BIGGEST weak point in my opinion. WEIRDEST bunch I've ever seen. Weird doesn't always have to mean BAD but in this case...yeah no there were a lot of weird AND bad ones in there, sometimes great concepts but VERY STRANGE execution that left a lot to be desired for me personally.

I was very open to what kind of Pokemon I would catch in this game. I ended up having only ONE new Paldean Pokemon on my team. And it wasn't even an all new Pokemon, it was Paldean TAUROS :'D Gotta say tho, I never cared THIS much about Tauros before. REALLY love my big black bull (ye I have the regular one, the rare ones are cool but I fell in love with this big fella)

I had a Kilowattrel and Amarouge on my team for a bit, but I switched them out after a while, I was really hoping I'd click with Amarouge more, but in the end I gave space for old and familiar faces instead. Kilowattrel I really like tho! But the fact I could walk around and interact with some of my favorite Pokemon overworld made me SO obsessed with adding them onto my team, THIS is the kind of Pokemon experience I've been waiting for for quite a while :DD

I haven't played through post game yet and I haven't finished all of the school classes yet, but I'm looking forward to complete them, as the cast of this game is really vast and fun!

In case of the comics however, just like with Galar I don't think we'll see an inclusion of this region within the story. Given the narrative of Scarlet and Violet, it would also be difficult to tie in its story with those of EAA and to be honest - I know you guys want to see El and her friends in other regions, which is very sweet, I'm happy you care so much about her that you want to see them travel around the world! But...I NEVER felt the desire to make this comic a world travel tour and I don't really understand where this idea came from that so many people expect El to leave Alola any time soon :'D

"El's Alolan Adventures" will continue to be about El's Adventures in Alola :'D I still love Alola and since El is currently Alolas Champion, she doesn't have any plans to leave the region any time soon and there are still SO many stories to tell with the cast of the Alola region! DON'T FORGET Gladion's Arc I still need to finish!!

HOWEVER

I THINK it's a fair assumption that you'll definitely see SOME fanart from me for this region :D In fact, you can already see my first (ANIMATED) piece on patreon! ☺️

AND I'll show a few more of my "travel pictures" as I've taken...A LOT of them... BUT YEAH Pokemon Scarlet, best main-line game since Sun and Moon for me!! OH and Legends of Arceus was REALLY FUN too of course

#pokemon scarlet and violet #pokemon scarvio #pokemon #mod #reply

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fishyfishyfishtimes · 11 months

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I hope this ask doesn't seem odd, or is out of your personal interests in biology, but; Your recent comments about Dolphin intelligence and anthropomorphizing animal intelligence (which I am unfortunately prone to) have really got me thinking about sapient/sophont alien species in specevo/specbio. If you don't mind giving your two cents, what do you think is the best way to portray alien intelligence without it seeming too 'human' or demonizing a species for being say, parasites (brood or otherwise), or practicing copulatory cannibalism? I'm not sure how prevalent these are in oceanic organisms, but I thought it'd be worth asking. Again, sorry if this isn't in the purview of your blog.

You're in luck, I love specevo and specbio! I don't reblog very much of it but trust me, I follow like five specbio alien creators right now. I dabble a little bit in creating it myself, but to answer your questions...

As humans, which are a result of millions of years of evolution, we are biased in some ways when it comes to other lifeforms. For example, parasitism often makes us uncomfortable because in nature parasites will take our resources and harm us, it's natural to feel uncomfortable even if the parasite has no choice! It can be hard to make things like that not seem icky, but you can definitely avoid demonising them. I think when it comes to making sophont aliens that partake in parasitism or copulatory cannibalism, you have to portray them in a neutral way (no "these horrible body-snatching aliens!!") and really focus on the fact that they really have no other choice, because this is how they've evolved and this is what's natural for them. It can be woven closely into their culture, maybe cannibalising one's mate is like a ceremony with a celebration of old life sacrificing itself to make way for new life! They aren't heartless, heavens no, this is just how their species evolved and this is what they do.

The same goes for parasitism! If you're going to do brood parasitism, hammer it down that this species just isn't built for raising its own young in any way and would perish if it didn't partake in brood parasitism. If you have ecto- or endoparasites, you can also do a little "twist" like the Symbiote species in C. M. Kösemen's All Tomorrows. They're a sapient human descendant really made up of two species, the small parasitic sapient species which controls the larger species, doing all the thinking so the larger species can simply focus its resources on everything else. While what they exhibit would be mutualism, the small species started out as a parasite, and I don't think I've ever seen people expressing that they feel the Symbiote is "gnarly" in any way.

As for your first question regarding portraying alien intelligence in a way that doesn't seem very "human"... well, that can be quite hard! Making a sapient species be more intelligent than us can be hard to write, since, you know, we're kind of the most intelligent things around we know. It's hard to write something you aren't. In the case of a species with a different evolution path to us (as in a sapient alien that didn't evolve from social savannah-travelling persistence hunter-gatherer omnivores), I would personally focus on writing a species with different senses to us, either heightened or dulled out compared to us. This can already help out with making the species seem less human! And then there's something that I don't often see but would love to see more of due to how "alien" it feels, colonial and hivemind aliens! And I just don't mean aliens with "queens" that control the rest, though I think those are a cool concept too. Tumblr user charseraph executes these really well, I think! They have at least three species of aliens which are "hiveminds" in a way: Trumpets, which are entire ecosystems whose individual living producers and consumers contribute to their intelligence as a whole, Wards, which are networks of connected bodies with millions of intelligences, and Towers, which consist of one main hub controlling several bodies. And how about sapient colonial aliens? Something like a siphonophore, an alien consisting of multiple individuals, either all sapient or forming a sapient unit, would be extremely cool! But I understand that this may not be what you're going for with your aliens.

I hope this helps! ^^

#biology #spec bio #spec evo #asks #neobiohazardus #revealing* my inner nerd with this one #(*not actually revealing because only a nerd would have an entire blog dedicated to fish and post on it daily)

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wasted-women · 4 months

Text

ROUND 1D, MATCH 1 OUT OF 8!

Causes of Death & Propaganda Under the Cut:

Laurel Lance

Cause of Death: Stabbed

Propaganda:

Her arc was NOT over— she was about to retire as a superhero and be a kickass lawyer. Also you may want to fact check this but I’ve heard the showrunner (or at least someone near the top making big decisions in that season) hated her as a character

Vanessa Carlysle

Cause of Death: Shot by gangsters hunting for her boyfriend

Propaganda:

The first movie shows that she's so freakin cool and badass and confident and caring and sexy and doesn't take shit from anybody. And she's in the second movie for a Whole Scene before she dies and it's all about them having kids. And after she dies it's like she only existed as Wade's fiancee, like no one else is mourning her, does she have any friends?? Did she have any kind of life outside of Wade???

Despite Deadpool being known for being very aware of medium and genre, the writers of Deadpool 2 showed zero awareness in killing off Vanessa Carlysle solely to motivate her boyfriend, the protagonist. This is played completely unironically - the writers themselves say it! From a Vulture article:

"[...] Then I think at some point somebody just said, ‘Y’know, Deadpool kind of works best when he’s had everything taken away from him, when he suffers.’ So the thought was maybe we can really, really engender great suffering for him by having his line of work be the thing that costs Vanessa her life."

So they made them decide to starting a family only to kill her off in the same scene 👍.

Vanessa was originally not even supposed to die, but they changed that without a thought so the male protagonist would suffer more! And of course, the WAY she dies is made to be all about him, too!

The writers were apparently surprised with all the criticism they received for this scene! Because they were not aware of the concept of fridging at all. 😐

Just because you are aware what fridging is it doesn't mean you have a carte blanche to do it??? Being self aware doesn't make it less stupid.

Deadpool is literally about subverting overused comic tropes and the writers did not know about this overused trope and executed it to a T.

Eudora Patch

Cause of Death: Shot saving her love interest's brother

Propaganda:

Her and Diego have an interesting dynamic. Exes who clearly still like each other. They had a nice mutual trust and respect which would have been nice to see grow over time

In some of the short time we see her as her own character, we see her as a mature, level headed but ultimately kind.

Not only is her death purely to motivate Diego with a revenge motive, it only motivates him for the rest of season 1. Come season 2, He has a new love interest and Eudora doesn't even get mentioned.

I don't think Klaus ever even acknowledges her sacrifice saving him and yes he now has his own dead lover to grieve because god forbid character think about more than one person at once.

#wasted women poll #round 1 #round 1d #laurel lance #vanessa carlysle #eudora patch #arrow #deadpool #deadpool 2 #the umbrella academy #poll bracket #poll tournament #character polls #polls

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exocynraku · 13 days

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thoughts on a starless clan so far

i don't know if anything i said here has any definitive spoilers in it but i'll put it all under a cut for safety

short answer: it's ok. frostpaw's plot & the stuff with riverclan, riverstar & the COTP, splashtail & curlfeather are all REALLY COOL. I liked sunbeam in the beginning and have grown to dislike where her story has gone. I like the concepts surrounding nightheart's plot but dislike the execution & the reaction from the community. I am still excited for star. long answer:

frostpaw and splashtail's plot is really really good and ive been enjoying it a lot (probably because it reminds me of tpb). i liked sunbeam's plot with blazefire and lightleap and berryheart in the beginning but have gotten bored of her & her plot since nightheart showed up in her life & she moved to thunderclan. nightheart's plot has good concepts behind it but i don't like the execution & i don't like the 2 cross clan relationship plot in a row. i think it could've been better if they focused less on cross clan relationships and more on clan prejudice & xenophobia & the corruptness of the code system as a whole (though i know it's incredibly unlikely the writers would do that i still want To Hope) instead of just the romance part since we did that last arc (though i don't think it really got us anywhere as i personally dislike the 'trials' thing that was developed & don't think it's particularly useful). especially because it was specifically a cross CLAN relationship in a row. i'd be a bit more lenient if it was a clancat x kittypet/loner relationship as that hasn't been done in a bit (like if nightheart fell in love with a COTP cat or something).

i like the pacing per-book but i think the pacing overall could be improved upon as it feels both sunbeam and nightheart's plots have been too separate from & slow compared to frostpaw's plot and haven't really been meshing well in the later books as the erins try to tie them all together. i also don't know if this is just my bad memory but i dislike the change of sunbeam and nightheart's personalities over time. they both feel like they are becoming cardboard cut out main characters to me. i liked sunbeam's relationship with lightleap blazefire & her family and thought it all was really realistic and especially in the lightleap/blazefire department was a surprising change of pace. i dislike what has become of both her plot and her personality as i feel they totally abandoned the lightleap/blazefire plot and turned her into a flat love interest. i do think it makes sense for her as a character to yearn for love but i think it'd make even MORE sense if she had a much more complicated relationship with love

i'm not going to speak further on nightheart because i know no matter what i say someone WILL be telling me to kill myself in one way or another so i'll keep in brief: no matter what you think of him, you at Need To Acknowledge & Be Conscious Of The Fact That Very Bad Things Have Been Said About & To Both Women And Disabled People Because Of His Plot In This Community. yes some very good & well-thought out conversations have been said in response, yes the majority of these things were said months and months ago when asc first was starting, But That Does Not Mean You Can Ignore That They Happened. If you want the community you are apart of to not be perceived as jackasses you cannot Ignore The Hatred Towards Women And Disabled People That Festers Inside Of It. you don't need to write a 9000 page essay about it, that's not what i'm asking, you just need to be CONCIOUS of it okay that's it. also while thinking about this i thought of how i'd rewrite sunbeam and the third pov (which i'd give to sparkpelt) so if anyone wants to hear about that send me an ask i'll make another 4 paragraph post about it

#wc #wc spoilers #ray talk

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rocksibblingsau · 2 months

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I love how you over analyze and over think when you do your work, also doing some research and considering some things and planning things through. It's very convenient and useful when it comes to building a story. And I like and respect you for that.

I wish I could be like that, but I don't really get a lot of idea's. I only get some through other people and I want to be able to think of something independently.

Ik this is a stupid question, but I wanna know what you think would help with getting idea's and thoughts for certain things. Maybe from your experience perhaps? You probably don't have the answer, but If you do could you share?

----DumbTruck :>

Thank you! My brain constantly going at 90 mph is useful sometimes.

To me, ideas are a snowball. Getting enough to get the ball rolling is what you gotta worry about. You get that initial plot idea or scene idea, and then you just start throwing stuff at it until it starts to look like something.

I've read a lot of fics, looked at lots of fanart and I listen to a LOT of music. I've seen lots of various AUs, 'missing scene' concepts and tweaking characters around. Listening to music also helps me since I'll just start sticking songs to characters and wait for a concept to make that song work with that character.

If you're struggling to come up with that initial idea, it might help to do some experimenting with ideas that already exist. Absolutely nothing wrong with you reading a fic and going 'I want to try my own spin on this idea'.

Since you're here, I imagine you also read fanfiction so think of your favorite fandom, the one that occupies your mind the most. Then your favorite character. What is the one fanfic you would most like to read? Has someone written that idea? What did you like about it and what did you dislike about it? Were there fics that had some elements you liked that you think would be cool merged? I started Rock Sibblings because I couldn't find the exact fic I wanted, so most of it is wish fulfillment.

If you don't have anything in mind, think about some common AUs or plots. Pick some of those and think about how you might do them. Try to push away from the normal and even if it gets super weird, you're gaining something from the experience. I think working with minor/background characters helps me because it opens up more avenues to me. I've never seen anyone work with Petra in fanfic, and I decided to toss her in and I think she's gonna add a lot of new avenues!

If it's less the initial idea and more the everything after, just getting sucked into random things helps me. Looking up subgenres of rock music can quickly spiral into learning about other things. I also recommend googling random things sometimes just to see where that leads. The diner scene really only happened because when trying to name the fry special I thought of greasers and then decided to google them. Then I was reminded of 50s diners and realized the scene could have a lot more life to describe the diner as similar to that, and then of course that opened up the chance to include rock n roll music. There's also a place near my home that has this sort of historical exhibit with a 1950s area (really just dig up any memories you have related to random topics), and there was a jukebox and pinball machine in the diner, so of *course* there needs to be a jukebox and pinball machine. And you can't just have a pinball machine and not have them play it. So now they're playing pinball, and so they gotta be hanging out and goofing off! Tada, snowballing.

This was a little disjointed and I'm sorry if it's not of much help. I've never really thought too much about making ideas, its more the execution that I struggle with.

#sibblings au #sibblings qna

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tea-earl-grey · 1 month

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Re: your Disco S4 review:

but there was just a bit too much Therapy Talk for my liking. and to be clear, i don't mean too much Actual Therapy. i really respect the show for portraying therapy and trauma recovery in depth and just having cool main characters go to therapy because it's good and healthy is Very Cool. but i do think there are definitely scenes (particularly in the beginning of the show) that has dialogue fall into Therapy Talk where all the characters go around in a circle and coherently state their thoughts and emotions and then resolve their conflict.

I also have the same issue, I know the crew were heavily traumatized in season 1 and I love that we’re finally getting a Trek have Starfleet take mental health seriously.

But it’s how the writers execute the scene that’s the problem. I think you’re right on the money about them needing another pass at scenes like that.

I also think, most of the time the show literally stops the action for the characters to just talk. And I adore characters being in a room, just talking. But I think it’s because most of the time it’s because those scenes do two things at the same time. Or they usually have characters talk around it and be difficult.

In season 4, it seems the characters start their scene and they just over indulge too much, maybe a tighter edit would also work.

But also I think most modern shows have that problem where they use Therapy talk as a crutch for character development and relationships.

And again, I preface this that I do love having mental health taken seriously but I think there’s a way to do it where writer’s integrate it organically— one of the new shows I like from AppleTV— Shrinking, is literally all about it but it’s funny and heartbreaking and sweet. I think maybe it’s because the writers are also new to the concepts and think they have to fit everything to be relevant.

Hopefully, they worked out the kinks for season 5!

Yeah exactly. I love Disco but sometimes it feels like the writers just need to read their dialogue aloud to make some last revisions (and also put some nuance/unspoken things into the dialogue).

This!!!! I know fiction is never meant to accurately reflect reality and that there are always going to be weirdly timed conversations for the sake of narrative but Discovery in particular has SO MANY "stop and talk" scenes during Big Action and it drives me crazy when the plot just establishes a strict time limit to do something and then we spend three minutes for characters to have a heart to heart instead of just. Doing The Thing. I know the 90s era "walk and talks" were annoying to film but those downbeats of characters chatting while going from point A to point B is a great place to add small bits of characterization (and movement!) instead of standing still and monologuing.

Thanks for the rec, I've never heard of Shrinking but will have to check it out!

(putting a big tangential ramble about Disco's portrayal of mental health/therapy under a cut because yeesh it got long)

As someone who has been in therapy, has a psychology degree, and has written fiction that uses therapy sessions as a setting/framing device, I can say with a decent amount of confidence that the way therapy/mental health is utilized in Disco is neither super realistic nor using its full narrative potential. Imo we skipped a very interesting part of everyone's healing journeys between s3 and s4 where characters are actually struggling to articulate their problems or denying their issues. Particularly with Detmer who went from having severe PTSD flashbacks in s3 to talking about her feelings with total clarity in s4 when actual trauma recovery is nowhere near as quick or linear and usually requires making major lifestyle changes to actually heal and maintain that healing.

And also I take issue with the fact that all of the characters are growing and facing similar issues at the same time and pace. It ends up making a lot of awkward and redundant conversations between characters who aren't in conflict and are self-actualized enough that they state everything they mean. And when there is meaningful conflict, the characters seem to very quickly overcome their flaws and make up. It's like the opposite problem that a lot of sitcoms and soap operas run into when characters are so driven to conflict and secret-keeping. It is refreshing to have a show where everyone is committed to being their best selves (which is quite similar to tng in that regard) but it doesn't easily mesh with the sort of drama that Discovery seems interested in telling stories about. All of this is also probably why Book's narrative (and his relationship with Michael) was one of the best parts of s4 because it felt like the writers actually committed to realistic season-long conflict born out of trauma and loss that wasn't written off. And as a result I think David Ajala's acting was some of the best of the show because he was given so much depth. I really just wish that the other characters had something similar but Disco's style of hyper-serialization, shorter season orders, and a large cast of recurring characters just doesn't lend to realistically telling stories about trauma and recovery because we almost only see the action and not the characters living their ordinary lives.

And while 90s Trek certainly wasn't The Best at portraying mental health (the therapy it shows in tng is just. Wrong. And so many characters like B'Elanna and Janeway have their issues with depression forgotten about after an episode or two), portrayals of PTSD with characters like Kira, Seven, Neelix, Picard, and Sisko tend to be more interesting to me because those characters' journeys through healing aren't linear. And as always, more episodes and episodic television in general makes it so emotional moments really hit (like Picard's breakdown in Family after Best of Both Worlds, seeing Kira's trauma around her father's death in Ties of Blood and Water, or whenever Neelix, the usual comedic relief and lighthearted character, has to confront how his family was killed in a brutal genocide) whereas with a show like Discovery – there's constant character drama and confrontations and big emotional moments so the catharsis of someone having a breakthrough in their treatment is a bit undercut. For something like that to be memorable, there have to be unmemorable moments too which just isn't Disco's style. It's not inherently a bad thing, but it's not really to my tastes.

Even the other new Treks tend to be a bit more grounded with character dialogue and addressing mental health. My enjoyment of Lower Decks shot way up in s4 because her admitting that Sito's death drove her away from wanting to be an officer was such a huge moment of catharsis when Mariner usually avoids talking about her feelings with a six foot poll. SNW has both La'an, M'Benga, and Chapel dealing with PTSD and their moments of vulnerability and pain are better because SNW tries to balance the silliness and seriousness of Trek. Picard is probably the most similar in content/tone to Discovery and even there despite the serialization and awkward characterization moments, the characters all have consistent issues with trauma that affect them at different times and affect them despite self-improvement. And I think Picard sometimes dips into heavy-handed emotional conversations but it's not quite as much as Disco because oh boy these characters are good at avoiding their feelings.

To be clear, I do love Discovery and people blow the awkward writing/Therapy Talk problem WAY out of proportion to cover for the bigoted reasons some people vocally hate the show. Like this problem does annoy me but it is just one aspect of the show and I hope one that will be fixed (or at least less noticeable) for season 5.

#discovery #my posts #asks #i need to drag my “Seven goes to therapy” fic out of my convoluted AU because therapy sessions are such a good framing device to get into a #character's head but you have to use it right! nuance! show don't tell!#therapy is a good way to jump start growth and unpacking trauma but irl you have to be an active participant #and in fiction your character has to actively confront their issues instead of just time skipping to a month later when they're fine becaus #of one conversation they had #this is a pet peeve of mine

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