#Patroclus really is Just Like That

[jules-ln]

Listen, not liking the song of Achilles it's ok, but acting like Patroclus would be weak/worse if he was feminine, that's a whole separate thing.

There's nothing wrong with Patroclus being feminine. Stop acting like a man being feminine suddenly means that he is weak.

Patroclus has been characterized as the feminine/innocent one long before TSoA (Troilus and Cressida, Troy 2004) because his main characteristic is being kind and kindness is commonly associated with femininity and/or naiveness (at least in a more modern society).

(Also, I just wanted to say that kindness is also associated with boyhood because boys are "less man" and that's why I think Troy (2004) portrayed him as the younger one, to avoid portraying him as feminine while still not making him a "man man". Because we all know that is illegal for men to be kind)

#ramblings #the iliad #iliad #Patroclus #Achilles #greek mythology #Gender roles #I actually would really like an adaptation of the Iliad where Patroclus is very feminine but still respect and an excellent warrior #Also. I know that a lot of people who have this takes about the Iliad are just young. But C'mon guys don't bring back gender essentialism #Controversial Opinion: #Sometimes I wonder if the refusal of Patroclus being feminine has something to do with the fact that nowadays he's depicted with dark skin #There! I say it!

[hellishgayliath]

Fingers crossed hoping Circe will appear in Hades 2 too 🤞She would definitely fit the whole witchcraft/enchantress theme/vibe that the game has going for it so far (and has also turned people,specifically men, into animals, mostly pigs which Hecate and you can do) so i think Melinoe would prolly get off scotch free while unveiling info about her connection with Ody. BUT ALSO it would be really cool to have her as an opponent since she can conjure monsters or maybe even build up to a fight against Scylla since she was the cause of that.

just ughhh I'm so excited for this game and what they have in store

#hades 2 #the cryptid talks #plus odysseus IS in the game so i wouldnt be surprised if they included someone from his history/had an encounter #and circe would definitely fit the bill #she would be like one of those characters you run into and gain a special item/gift along the way #like patroclus or eurydice #heres hopinggggg #plus i just really like the art style so i'll be happy with anything/anyone they add to the game :D #i just agdjnfbtufch a scylla fight would so so sick #myabe it'll play out like lernie's fight cause of the center head and the additional snake like head on the side #but i feel like they could put their own special twist on it

[ecoamerica]

Watch the 2024 American Climate Leadership Awards for High School Students now: https://youtu.be/5C-bb9PoRLc

The recording is now available on ecoAmerica's YouTube channel for viewers to be inspired by student climate leaders! Join Aishah-Nyeta Brown & Jerome Foster II and be inspired by student climate leaders as we recognize the High School Student finalists. Watch now to find out which student received the $25,000 grand prize and top recognition!

#ACLA24 #ACLA24HighSchoolStudents #youtube #youtube video #climate leaders #climate solutions #climate action #climate and environment #climate #climate change #climate and health #climate blog #climate justice #climate news #weather and climate #environmental news #environment #environmental awareness #environment and health #environmental #environmental issues #environmental education #environmental justice #environmental protection #environmental health #high school students #high school #youth #youth of america #school

[adriles]

if feasting is not what will occupy youu , why did you all just stand in silence as i set out sheep and goat and the chine of a great fat hog for the past 40 minutes. why dont yoy just tell me you need me back in battle out the jump

#book 9 #patroclus #odysseus #big ajax #phoenix #it really is so funny theyre all like. thanks but we arent here to hang out #and he is just like. well ill go fuck myself then

[atlas-dr0wned]

zagreus tries to make dinner for patroclus and achilles but is stopped when patroclus sees him serving up a whole raw onion

#poor zag he just wants to impress his boyfriends #the fact he canonically eats them like this makes me giggle #but also cry #that sounds awful zag why would you do that #achilles is on the verge of tears at the thought because he just really hates onions #aristos achaion’s one enemy in the afterlife: onions #hades #hades game #hades supergiant #zagreus hades game #patroclus hades #achilles hades game #patzagachilles #pza

[finnpeach]

Take Care, Part 2

Here’s Part 2! Thank you to everyone who liked and reblogged part one :’) this part is a lot more sappy and romantic and one of my favourite parts lol Achilles is such a big baby when he’s sick

As before, Greek translations are provided after they’re said (if incorrect, please let me know as I don’t speak Greek!), and I recommend pasting the Greek into DeepL translate and listening because Greek is so gorgeous and it makes the story more tangible. 

Part 1 is here Part 3 is here

Achilles’ apartment is on the top floor, the third story. It’s a very nice building, certainly not the simple student accommodation that Patroclus is used to. Achilles has always offered for Patroclus to move in with him, he won’t even have to pay, but he can’t. Part of his scholarship requirements for school dictate that he has to live on campus. That didn’t stop him from spending nearly every weekend at Achilles’ apartment, though, up until he was too busy in their final year. Then Achilles said he’d pay for his school so they could live together and Patroclus had to tell him to shut up. It was hard to believe how rich his best friend was.

“You have your keys?”

Achilles nods and fumbles his keys out of his pocket, sniffling. He really needs a tissue. “Dod’t you have yours?” Achilles had one cut for Patroclus the day he got his apartment.

“Yeah, but they’re in my backpack.”

As he works the key into the lock, his breath hitches again. Teeth flash as his nostrils flare, hair falling in his face. He leans against the door to sneeze, one hand raising to catch them. “Hd’ESZHHh’ue!” He coughs, seemingly finished, but Patroclus knows better. Achilles never sneezes just once.

He takes the keys out of Achilles’ hands while the blonde fights with the second one. His head tilts back, eyes searching for a scrap of light to push him over the edge. He finds it just as Patroclus opens the door.  

“Hh’ATSSHhhh’ue!” The harsh sneeze scrapes against his throat, caught in his palm, making him stumble through the doorway as he walks inside.

“Bless you. What have I told you about sneezing into your hands?” His doctor voice comes out as he shuts the door behind them, then unties his shoes and Achilles’.

Achilles groans and slumps against Patroclus as he helps him out of his shoes. “I’b sigck. Leave be alode.”

“I can barely understand you. Πήγαινε να πλύνεις τα χέρια σου και να φυσήξεις τη μύτη σου.” Go wash your hands and blow your nose. Patroclus pulls Achilles out of the thick jacket, thinking he might get his hoodie back too, but Achilles just strides down the hall to the kitchen. He places the jacket in the coat closet and opts for one of Achilles light blue hoodies to wear himself.

The smell of honey and almonds embraces him, and he takes a moment to smell the hoodie, comforted by the familiar scent. Achilles has always smelt so good. He hears the kitchen sink turn on, followed by the sound of two wet, contagious sneezes that echo around the apartment.

“HTSSshh’ue! ESShhh’ue!”

God, he sounds so sick. He urges the boner in his pants to relax, but if Achilles continues on this course, there’s not a chance in hell.

Patroclus follows him to the kitchen, refusing to look at Achilles, and immediately rifles through the cabinet he knows has some medicine. There should still be some in here from the last time he took care of Achilles, when his cold had turned into pneumonia.

“Do you want cherry or grape cough syrup?”

“σταφύλι.” Grape.

Achilles always slips into Greek when he’s tired, or not feeling well. Patroclus had to translate a few times at the hospital when Achilles was too exhausted to describe his pneumonia symptoms in English to the nurse. Patroclus tends to use it as an indicator of when Achilles needs to go lie down, since he’ll never admit that he feels tired.

He takes out the grape cough syrup and a spoon, along with a decongestant and the thermometer. Then he goes to the fridge and pours Achilles a glass of orange juice.

Achilles is leaning against the kitchen counter, blowing his nose into a tissue. There are two piled up beside him already.

Patroclus approaches him with the thermometer and grins fondly. His nose is pink from the tissue, the top of his Cupid’s bow a bit red from so many tissues today. He looks so cute.

“How’re you feeling?”

“Like shit.” Achilles coughs, this time into his elbow. “Αλλά αισθάνομαι καλύτερα, τώρα που είσαι εδώ.” But I feel better, now that you’re here. He smiles shyly.

Warmth, that he can only identify as burning love, spreads through Patroclus’ chest. “I’m going to take your temperature, okay? I think you have a fever.” He cups Achilles’ cheek with his hand and gently strokes his thumb across his cheekbone. He can’t help but touch him, try to offer little comforts, anything to help him feel better.

Achilles leans into the touch. “Mm… το χέρι σου είναι τόσο ωραίο και κρύο.” Your hand is so nice and cold. He closes his eyes and nuzzles his hand. Patroclus’ thumb strays too close to his sensitive, chapped nostrils with the movement, and he pitches forward against Patroclus’ hand with three itchy sneezes immediately.

“HN’GXTSHh!” He tries to stifle the first one, but it’s pointless and just produces more mess for the two that follow. His hand rises to try and cover and is blocked by Patroclus’ wrist. “— ETSH’ue! H’IYSHhhh!” Wet heat sprays against Patroclus’ wrist, the side of his hand, and a bit of his cheek as he watches, stunned. His cock strains against his jeans. A wet spot is beginning to form at the tip but is thankfully concealed by the hoodie.

He doesn’t pull his hand away until Achilles is gazing up at him expectantly, blinking those big green eyes at him.

“Uh… Bless you. L-Let me take your temperature.” He waits for Achilles to blow his nose again first before he drops his mouth open, eyes wandering up at Patroclus, his tongue peeking past his bottom lip slightly. He’s teasing him, he must be.

Patroclus feels his face burning as he tries not to imagine Achilles on his knees, looking up at him like that. He places the thermometer under Achilles’ tongue carefully and pretends to busy himself with looking at the medication while they wait.

When it beeps, Achilles keeps it under his tongue until Patroclus comes to remove it for him. He’s so helpless when he’s sick. Patroclus is honestly surprised he even managed to dress himself this morning.

“99.7, not too high, but we’ll keep an eye on it.” He types the number into his notes on his phone, along with the time and what medicines Achilles will be taking. “Let me take your pulse.”

Achilles stands oddly still as Patroclus places his cool fingers against his throat and starts a timer on his phone. He can feel Achilles swallow nervously against his fingers, never taking his gaze off Patroclus.

The timer goes off and he taps the heart rate into his notes. “90 bpm. It’s pretty fast for you, even like this. Do you feel dizzy?”

Achilles shakes his head sharply and Patroclus jots that down on his phone too. It doesn’t occur to Patroclus that his fingers against his throat, his presence, may have been the reason for Achilles’ elevated heart rate.

“Take this, and then that with the orange juice.” He watches as Achilles swallows down the cough syrup, then the decongestant with the orange juice. He’s learned that he has to watch Achilles when he takes medicine, otherwise he might dump it down the sink.

“Do I get a lollipop, doctor?” Achilles teases as he finishes the juice, rubbing at his nose.

Patroclus rolls his eyes. “I don’t have any. But here.” 

He steps forward and pulls Achilles into a hug, squeezing him tight. He can hear Achilles’ breath catch in his throat at the surprise before his arms wrap around Patroclus’ waist, hanging on tight, his entire body relaxing into his arms like a ship coming home to its beloved harbor. It’s been so long since they’ve embraced like this.

It reminds Patroclus of their earlier college years. Achilles has always been very tactile, jumping on Patroclus when they saw each other on campus, grabbing his hand to lead him somewhere, wrapping him in a bear hug after he won a track meet. Whereas before they touched nearly every day, now he can’t remember the last time they’ve been this close.

It’ll only get worse when they finish school and Patroclus has to leave for medical school. What will they do then? He has to make sure Achilles is ready.

“You need to start taking better care of yourself,” he murmurs as he breaks their embrace, taking a step back from Achilles.

“I don’t need to, you always care for me so well.” Achilles beams at him, playing with the blue strings on Patroclus’ hoodie.

“Achilles, you know I’ll always take care of you, but you shouldn’t rely on me so heavily.”

“Why not?” The smile on Achilles’ face drops. His hands fall to his sides.

“Well… What if I have to move far away for medical school? I can’t look after you then. And I’ll be too busy with school to visit. And—“

“I’ll come with you. I’ll follow you anywhere.”

Patroclus thinks he‘s joking and huffs a breath of laughter. “Achilles, it’s not that simple—“

“Why is it not? Do not laugh. I’m not being funny.” Tears well in Achilles green eyes, creating a shimmery pool of jade. “You said that you will always take care of me. Why do you say that and then say you’ll leave me by myself?” His tone is defensive, anxious. He takes a step back from Patroclus and the wall is built up in an instant.

Patroclus’ mouth forms words silently, uselessly, as hot, thick tears roll down Achilles’ cheeks like raindrops.

“Achilles—“ He moves to hold him, but Achilles is too quick. He turns on his heel and silently strides towards his bedroom, closing it with a forceful slam. The silence that follows hangs in the air like a held breath.

Patroclus smacks his forehead. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Why does he always say the wrong thing? Achilles just stood there, heart open to him, promising that he’d follow him anywhere, and Patroclus turned him down. Why does he always have to rationalize everything?

He goes to Achilles’ door, presses his ear against the wood. He can hear soft, snuffling noises and gentle crying. His heart threatens to rip in two at the sound and it’s all his fault.

Of the two of them, Patroclus has always been the busier one. When he didn’t have class, he was volunteering at the hospital, or fulfilling extra curriculars, or studying to keep up with his scholarship requirements. Anything to enhance his medical school application. Gone were the easy days of him and Achilles staying up for hours in bed together, talking about everything and nothing at all, looking out at the stars, and falling asleep mere inches apart when they finally succumbed to their exhaustion. He was always turning Achilles down for sleepovers now, always turning him down for lunch, never able to attend his track meets anymore. They only see each other in the Classical Studies class these days.

That was why Achilles had been so adamant about Patroclus taking Chiron’s class. Achilles missed him.

Patroclus missed him too. So much more than he’d realized.

He feels like such an ass.

He fills a glass of water and grabs a box of tissues off the coffee table before standing awkwardly outside Achilles’ door. He isn’t entirely sure what to do.

“Achilles? Can I come in?” He asks, knocking gently on the wood.

There’s a series of sharp sniffles followed by a shaky breath. When no objection comes, Patroclus opens the door.

There are tissues littered everywhere. An empty box sits discarded in the wastebasket, which is also full of tissues. The curtains are drawn but not closed completely, letting in a sliver of light. The air feels heavy and Patroclus aches to open a window. It truly looks like a sick den.

Achilles is sitting on the bed, his knees tucked in to his chest and his arms wrapped around his legs. He stares at Patroclus with the saddest eyes in the world. His cheeks are streaked with tears, his hair a disheveled mess.

Patroclus wants to reach out to him, kiss away the tears, pull him into his lap and tell him how they’ll never be apart.

Instead, he stands there stupidly and hangs his head in shame. “Συγγνώμη, Achilles.” I’m sorry. He looks up at him, guilty, brown eyes begging for forgiveness.

Achilles wipes away more tears, then sits up in bed and pats the spot beside him. Patroclus comes immediately.

He places the tissues and the water on the bedside table before taking his place beside him. Achilles’ head falls against Patroclus’ shoulder and he wraps an arm around the blonde’s waist. Achilles has always been strong and muscled, able to shoulder anything, but right now he seems so pitiful and small, like a broken dove in the palm of his hand.

“I… I’m an idiot,” Patroclus begins. He thinks he sees Achilles smile a little at that. “You can always rely on me. I just get so worried about you, when you don’t take care of yourself, because I—” Patroclus swallows. Because I love you. “Because I care about you, so, so much. I don’t want you to go to the hospital again. But I will always take care of you, Achilles. I promise.”

He takes one of Achilles’ hands into one of his, placing the other on Achilles’ chin to draw their gazes together. His heart pounds when their eyes meet. His breath catches in his throat, eyes darting from Achilles’ eyes to his peony pink lips.

“And,” he starts. His mouth feels like it’s full of sand. His heart is about to burst. “I want you to come to medical school with me. Please. I can’t fathom being apart from you either. It didn’t even occur to me to ask you because I didn’t think I could ask that of you.” He searches Achilles’ eyes, sinking in those deep pools of green.

“But I want you— no, I need you to come with me. Please.”

“Oh, Patroclus,” Achilles whispers. Tears stream down his cheeks again. “I’ve missed you so much.”

Achilles has always been so much better with words than he.

He isn’t sure who moves first, but in a heartbeat Achilles’ lips are against his and his hands are cradling the back of Patroclus’ head, his fingers knotting through his curls. Achilles’ lips are so soft.

The kiss starts sweet, gentle, and then grows in passion and intensity as they start to learn each other’s movements. Achilles always pushes forward first, then draws back, eager to see Patroclus follow, then returns the pressure as soon as their lips meet again. Patroclus opens his mouth to let Achilles’ tongue find his, moaning as Achilles tugs on his brown hair. He’s wanted this for so, so long. He’s dreamt about this for four years.

Hardly able to take any more, he pushes Achilles down on the bed, shifting his leg over his hip to straddle him. Achilles gazes up at him, breathless, a feverish blush turning his face a rosey pink. His lips are swollen and wet. The hoodie has slid up his waist to reveal his chiseled abs, and his sharp hip creates a ravine leading down to his groin that now has a hard bulge, not unlike Patroclus’.

Patroclus tucks a stray curl behind Achilles’ ear, trying to catch his breath. His fiery hair creates waves of gold across the pillow. He looks like the sun.

“I…” He doesn’t know where to begin.  

“I’ve been waiting for you to kiss me for years,” Achilles whispers. “But I was never sure you felt the same.”

Patroclus is taken aback. He laughs and lowers himself to his elbows, chest to chest with Achilles. He’s at a loss for words, as though he’s been born anew. Life did not exist before this moment. He doesn’t know how to tell Achilles that he’s wanted this just as much as him. This moment feels like a dream, a moment that he’s stolen from heaven above.

He starts to kiss him as he’s always wanted to: his perfectly freckled cheeks, his forehead, his chin, his eyes, his nose. He peppers Achilles face with loving kisses and then moves down to do the same to his neck, reveling in Achilles’ giggle anytime the sensation becomes too ticklish. Eventually Achilles catches him again, reels him in and kisses him hard.

“Never go far from me,” Achilles pleads into the kiss, pulling back to lock their eyes together. “I couldn’t bear it. Promise me you’ll stay by my side. Swear it.” He sweetly kisses the spot where Patroclus’ ear and jaw meet, hand cradling his face.

“I swear it,” Patroclus says, sealing the promise with a kiss to Achilles’ soft lips. He feels like he could eat the world raw. “για πάντα.”

Forever.

#my writing #thank you for reading!!!! I really hope you liked it #comments and tags will always fill my heart with joy <333 #theyre both just dumb idiots in love who should've confessed to each other a looooong time ago #anyway I just love coming up with ways these two dummies can show they love eachother #denial is a river in Egypt Patroclus you are both in love!!!!

[drlickitysplitty]

To die in a world where the only things that could ever love you without judgment being the stars

And even then the stars died

If blood is thicker than water

Who's to say blood cannot be falsified

I am a man loving a man

I cannot have because the world hates lovers

History will only ever kill the ones you love and write of your victories

Failures don't get written in the history books unless your what the world has deemed evil and monstruous enough to be taught about.

#poetry #transgender #trans man #ftm #the lovers recorded in history as just friends #totally not a poem about patrochilles #it is #and im really gay about death and the erasure of relationships in history that arent just straight #achilles and patroclus #patrochilles #love me like achilles and patroclus did #gay mlm #this is kinda written badly #but its a particular thing i dont know how to express in proper words

[zoebelladona]

me trying to explain platonic readings of clarisse & silena are just as valid as romantic ones because if you think you have to be in love with someone to kill a giant dragon then you clearly don't love your friends

#i don't give a fuck it's supposed to be a patroclus and achilles reference #argue with the wall i have a degree in classical philology #let the record show i really like silena/clarisse (romantic) #but i always gets a bad taste in my mouth whenever people say “oh there just Have to be romantic feelings involved no other explanation” #like. no. don't you love your friends?? wouldn't you take a bullet for them?? wouldn't you lose it if they died in your arms?? #pjo #clarisse la rue #silena beauregard #.txt

[its-ezraaa]

Okay sorry for my 1 AM brainrot ramblings again but

So Nichoji is ACTUALLY happening???

I might sounds delirious but I got so used to mainstream hetero media that I don't even have hope for gay ships getting canon or... u know queer people existing. Of course, this is Pacat and everything's different and (from past experience) very much gay but I always thought that Fence was the "black sheep" of all his books that would never actually show us romantic interactions between Nick and Seiji. Or just subtle hints at best (even though both have all typical Pacat love interest tropes).

Tbh, I would have accepted it if we only got an romantically ambiguous ending and I kinda even expect that. Call it pessimism I guess? BUT THEN THEY PUT THIS QUOTE ON THE COVER AND I--

Can I actually hope for canon Nichoji?? Is that possible??

Generally I'm also curious to see what other people think of fence ships getting canon. How would it happen? Would Nick and Seiji get together before or after Exton? (Or at all..?) Is Haiden forever just #pining or will Aiden finally stop having the stupid? Does Jesse even know that Eugene exists???

#okay sorry for the mess #this quote just really shooked me #I seriously NEVER expect gay ships to become canon #NEVER #thats why i always google if a book is actually gay #bc SO MANY TIMES they are just #just like patroclus and achilles ofc #sorry to eugesse shippers #it doesnt look very promising so far #but there is always hope!!! #fence comic #fence #nichoji #eugesse #haiden #ezras brainrot

[loveydive]

the main criticism i have for the song of achilles is the depiction of the relationship between achilles and patroclus.

i dont mind a coming of age love story between the boys; its just that throughout the book it is EXTREMELY static. sure there are a few bumps along the way but they eventually sort themselves out fairly quickly (too quickly imo). like yes, i get it. they love each other so much but they cant be tgt bc of fate - oh how tragic. but the story is only tragic in that they both die. its not actually a tragedy in itself, because the ending isnt actually tragic at all - they meet each other in the underworld again afterall.

but this is the reason why i think the depiction of their doomed but unbreakable love is one of the weaknesses of the story. it fails to connect with or explore the themes in the illiad - the real themes which actually made it a tragedy. achilles was consumed by his pride and let hundreds of men die, he was no longer himself and what? patroclus still loved him wholeheartedly after that? i just couldnt bring myself to believe that. after all of that how could patroclus be so single-minded in loving him? it wouldve made for a better story if patroclus had intended to go out to the walls of troy as a kind of suicide mission. if he knew that hector killing him would be the only way to break achilles and finally end the war. the same events could happen but patroclus' motivations would be different. this wouldve given him so much more agency and add more complexity in their relationship. that at the end of the day achilles didnt love him enough to fight in the war. he loved his immortality more than he loved patroclus.

and wouldnt that have made a better tragedy? this is why patroclus' betrayal to achilles when he saved briseis was so emotionally compelling. his love for achilles was no longer simple, it was no longer a boy's love. bc in his mind, the achilles that he loved died a long time ago. the war has changed him and it wont bring the old one back. IS THAT NOT MORE TRAGIC? AND MORE THEMATICALLY COMPELLING?

i just felt that miller tried SO hard to justify their romance that she didnt want to risk putting in any complexity at all otherwise their 'lovers' status would be threatened. but i really think it was to the detriment to the book. it wasnt bad, it was actually pretty alright - it just wasnt a masterpiece

#cin.txt #liek if you wantt o make it a tragedy LEAN ALL THE WAY INN BABYY #and i just finsihed reading THIS ONE GOOD REVIEW #and how millers book totally bastardises both achilles' and patroclus' characterisations #patroclus was achilles' equal and could hold his own in a fight #and achilles wasnt as innocent. he was known for his rage #like. he raped briseis #THATS CRAZY TO ME. SO YOU SANITISED THIS BOOK BC YOU COULDNT HANDLE YOUR GOLDEN BOY BEING CRUEL? WHICH WAS THE PT OF THE TRAGEDY? #literally... like the young adult status of the book is what brings it down #it legit couldve been SO MUCH MOREEEEE #also the review i read really highlighted how badly the female characters were depicted in thebook #like YEAH... why WOULD thetis - a rape victim herself- force her own son to have sex with a woman?? #its such a good review and you can tell that the reviewer is very familiar with greek classics #review/show/3177526431 <- if you wanna read. its on goodreads

[luckystrike-x]

.

#i think it was already pretty obvious that paddy and mcgonigal were supposed to be the achilles and patroclus of ww2 #it kills me that stirling walked inside paddy's tent and just outwardly compared his situation to achilles' #can this show be more heavy-handed than that? #whenever there is a ''good'' joke (which happens rarely) or ref they can't help reasserting it #just in case we didn't get it the first time #which makes it unrewatchable for me #it's also very britishly self-congratulating which in itself is already barely watchable #they should have taken more notes from amc's the terror and not just for the gay plotline but whatever #i'll keep watching cause there's only one ep left and i really like augustin he reminds me a lot of milo from atlantis #i also understand paddy to some degree it makes me crazy too not to have many people to talk about literature with #i just won't become a war criminal about it though

[i-spilled-my-soup]

things you liked+didn't like about tsats?

haven't read it in a hot minute but my recollections follow thus

liked

that scene with bianca in the lotus hotel.... augugahug. i miss bianca. i wanna see more of her. please

dionysus being a chill guy. and he's eating popcorn. he deserves it

disliked

its so romance-focused.. which i guess is The Point of that book but. not what i was hoping for, not what i was looking for..

it doesn't fit my taste which is not a fair standard for anything Remotely unbiased but this post is biased so i shall continue. there were a number of tropes that i've seen before and poignantly dislike. the cutesy romancey bits felt a little dull to me

that one bit about jasons arms

#tsats spoilers #im sorry guys i dont understand well... #book in all may just not be for me #will and nico parts especially #i jsut. dont like the feeling of. auaug. and the. and the aftermath of nightmare augahaag. and . the whole premise of some lady saying #''oh look at you you are cute and homosexual u should tell me ur relationship drama in excruciating detail!'' i don't really. enjoy that. #my ideal romance is just really good friends and i didnt feel that #like none of that patroclus book 13 ish when everyone is dying and hes at nestors tent saying ''dude. you think i havent tried #convincing achilles. really. you think hes bad try being at his side for years he is the worst guy i know in the guy department'' #and its like. uninteresting #not even alcibiades and socrates at the end of plato's symposium #where alcibiades on the fourth rizzing attempt says #''listen man. i want you more than i want anyone else. cause i believe you're my only chance of becoming a good person" #and socrates roasts his ass and then they cuddle and alcibiades wakes up completely lain with but not ''lain with'' and mopes #or like lucius apuleius madaurensis in his autobiography/self insert novel using kitchen-themed pickup lines on photis #i. i dunno. some dude in camo shorts joking that his bf will never be happy doesn't spark much besides annoyance #and i do not want i do not want a homosexual love triangle please i just want . friends. please. #i always enjoyed the subtle diversion of heteronormativity or like comphet but now its homonormativity and it just feels like comphet #but more fetishized #?

[kabira]

.

#i hate when i'm reading a book sometimes and it's clear that the author can Write but the book is shit #didnt think much of it until i got my hands on song of achilles a couple months ago and was so excited to read it #because my mom really liked it #and when i finished it i was left with the feeling of Well that was definitely A Book ! #but the more i thought about it the more i realized how given to gender roles the story was and how it was overall very mediocre #apart from the appeal of the more obviously queer retelling #and i realized how much i hated it lol #i get why straight people like it. esp straight women #but if you think about the portrayal of achilles/patroclus's relationship critically for more than five minutes then #it becomes obvious how stereotypical and just plain bad it is? #anyway i went off on a tangent here but point being. it sucks when people have skill but no vision. you need both to be considered talented #13 #edit i did not put my thoughts across clearly at all LOL but yeah that's why i put it into the tags

[aaaaamorphous-entity]

for the ship bingo is achilles x patroclus okay?

Oh absolutely

A bit more under the cut but probs not super detailed bc Tumblr just ate paragraphs worth of comments about them >:(

The Iliad is something I've not read through, so a lot of my feelings and thoughts on these guys are mainly from other materials like Song of Achilles and Hades.

In Fate, Achilles never mentions Patroclus as far as I know, which is REALLY weird. Even if they're trying to hide the romance, Patroclus is to no exaggeration the reason Achilles dies. His death ensured Achilles' own, in a way. So it's really weird of them to not even bring him up. And frankly I'm so afraid that FGO will just gender-swap waifu-ify Patroclus that I almost don't want them to :/

But ignoring their weird (it's homophobia) decisions, I like to think that they just hang out in Elysium between summons. Who knows if that's how it works, but the Throne of Heroes is so ill-defined that I can say whatever I want. Pat gets to listen to Achilles ramble about all the people he's met and places he's seen.

The Song of Achilles is a beautifully written book, with its own problems. I do love the softness in it and particularly the dichotomy between how Patroclus sees and knows Achilles, and how everybody else does.

Patroclus sees the boy he grew up with. He sees Achilles as a person, as his friend and later on as his lover. Most others see a means to an end - the man who will help them win the Trojan War, bound and prophesied to do so either through himself or his blood in the form of his son.

There were some less than stellar literary choices imo (villainizing Thetis and Deidameia, entirely removing Patroclus from being a warrior (when in the Iliad he had the skill to go toe to toe with even Hector before Apollo bailed the man out) and on that note taking away his smart mouth and shiny spine (see also: shit talking Hector about how he needed Apollo to bail him out as he dies lmao)

But I do love the tenderness between them, even if I do wish we could have gotten more from Achilles' perspective, even if just through words and actions. Pat goes on and on about all the things there are to love and admire about Achilles, but Achilles is far less direct in most cases (even if my heart will never recover from the 'promise' scene)

Hades honestly has my favorite depictions of these two. They feel like they're on equal footing more than they were in SoA, and Patroclus got more of a spine and that sharp wit, though I won't get much into their relationship because of spoilers.

But overall, these two are very tragic, and they tug on the heart strings. They loved each other deeply, and it's because of Achilles' pride they both died.

They balance each other out well, and I love the idea of Patroclus seeing Achilles for who he is more than what he's expected to be, and Achilles appreciating and loving Pat so much, despite how most would look at the difference in their status and expect much less

#patrochilles #achilles #patroclus #long post #I don't think I really articulated everything well but I'm kinda fried today lmao #I just like these two a lot <3

[summerof336bc]

guy who has a lot of opinions & thoughts about odysseus

#entries #i think he is arrogant & annoying & did some bad things but. #i dont think hes a bad person. throughout the odyssey you can really tell he cares about #his friends & crewmates & his family. #like i mean its clear in the illiad to but the odyssey is much more focused on him in particular so you see more of his character #BUT hes also a good person in the illiad to. he counsels & comforts achilles after patroclus' death #& is an important voice of reason !!! #i just think odysseus is a smart guy who loves those who are close to him who is arrogant & makes some bad decisions

[smokedbeans]

My favourite thing in games and stories is really tragic and sad romances doomed by extreme amounts of time apart or unforgiving circumstances BUT it being the subplot. Mc having an important role/task/focus and is wholly dedicated to that but ALSO has a bit of tragedy love on the side? Love that shit

#or even just a normal romance that is just too inconvenient at the current time #if that makes sense #idk I just really like the helplessness of it all #watching the hades playthrough of zag helping Achilles and Patroclus reuniting is very good #bean.txt #not a fan of romance as a genre but I like it when it’s just there amoungst other things

[hoodie-prince-kid]

THERE'S AN IMPLICATION OF THE EXISTENCE OF PATROCLUS IN THIS GAME'S LORE AND ACHILLES REALLY SEEMS TO MISS HIM AND IT'S ALREADY TEARING ME APART DESPITE IT ONLY BEING MENTIONED TWICE SO FAR

#LIKE ON TOP OF MY NEED TO HEAR HOW ORPHEUS AND EURYDICE SOUND TOGETHER #I ALSO REALLY REALLY NEED TO FIND PATROCLUS SO HE AND ACHILLES CAN REUNITE #AND I HAVE AN IDEA AS TO WHERE PATROCLUS MIGHT BE TOO WHICH JUST HURTS EVEN M O R E #IM WAITING FOR MY SWITCH TO CHARGE SO IN THE MEANTIME TAKE MY SHOUTING BECAUSE A U G H #caps