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lumi-waxes-poetic · 9 months

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I really can't stand the endless documentaries that are like "OH EM GEE WAS ATLANTIS REAL?!"

NO. IT WASN'T. PLATO ADMITTED IN HIS OWN WRITINGS IT WAS AN ALLEGORY YOU OVERFUNDED CROCKUMENTARY DINGUSES.

Allegory was practically Plato's whole thing. Short of stuffing words in Socrates' mouth (Plato basically considered Socrates to be the wisest man who ever lived and so when he wanted something to sound important or wise, he'd have Socrates say it in his dialogues), it was his favorite method of imparting a lesson. Anyone who claims to be "using Plato's writings as a map to find Atlantis" wasn't ACTUALLY reading those in the manner Plato intended and Plato would have knocked them flat on their ass for it.

Plato may have been a thinking man but he was also RIPPED and not afraid to throw hands — like many Greeks of his age he enjoyed boxing and wrestling and regularly took part in the Isthmian Games and was commented upon by several contemporaries as "a most talented grappler", so let's not pretend this man wouldn't put you on the ground if he thought you weren't getting the message.

And the message was that Plato spun a yarn about how even the greatest, most glorious civilizations can so completely fail and give way to the basest, darkest parts of human nature and decline so far that when the end comes for them, it is not a tragedy, but rather a blessing. The whole point of the Allegory of Atlantis is that they had their chance and they're better off dead, and you should NOT seek to be like them BECAUSE they failed.

In short: "If they were worth emulating, they would still be here. They are neither."

Despite occurring nearly a thousand years earlier, the story of the destruction of the isle of Thera and its golden city of Akrotiri by volcanic apocalypse would have been known to men of Plato's generation (an island effectively deleting itself off the map in a single massive —never mind DRAMATIC— explosion, darkening the skies for miles around, cooling the climate, and wiping out one of the most technologically advanced, wealthy, and prosperous societies to have ever existed in the region is not the sort of thing people in the area tend to just... forget, after all), and since volcanoes would not be even slightly understood until after Pompeii and Herculaneum, the only reasoned explanation at Plato's time would have been "the gods did it", and if the gods did it, they must have had a reason for it, even if that reason was not visible to us mere mortals, and it's from those considerations that the Allegory of Atlantis springs.

As Plato writes in Critias of the destruction of "Atlantis":

By such reflections and by the continuance in them of a divine nature, the qualities which we have described grew and increased among them; but when the divine portion began to fade away, and became diluted too often and too much with the mortal admixture, and the human nature got the upper hand, they then, being unable to bear their fortune, behaved unseemly, and to him who had an eye to see grew visibly debased, for they were losing the fairest of their precious gifts; but to those who had no eye to see the true happiness, they appeared glorious and blessed at the very time when they were full of avarice and unrighteous power. Zeus, the god of gods, who rules according to law, and is able to see into such things, perceiving that an honorable race was in a woeful plight, and wanting to inflict punishment on them, that they might be chastened and improve, collected all the gods into their most holy habitation, which, being placed in the center of the world, beholds all created things.

We can see Plato's general point summed up in that quote: the people of Atlantis were a good people, a hard working people, and ascended greatly as they emulated that which was best about man and the gods (aka Plato's values), and declined as they ceased to cherish what Plato believed was good and embraced what he considered evil, until they became so fallen, so depraved, and had committed such crimes that Zeus, "who rules according to law", was forced to pass judgment upon and destroy them "in a single day and night of misfortune".

Atlantis was an allegory for how even the mightiest and most virtuous of civilizations can fall prey to the temptations of decadence and pride if your own pride is not paired with self-vigilance. The people of Atlantis were at one time prosperous, virtuous, and rightly proud. But they let their pride get the better of them. They became selfish and overconfident, they let the darker side of human nature rule them.

Plato considered it righteous for the gods to “reward” the selfish and the careless with just vengeance. "When all their pride has been shattered", the principle argues, "they can return to a better, earlier form of what they used to be."

The most illustrative demonstration of Atlantean wickedness and decadence is this line:

To those who had no eye to see the true happiness, they appeared glorious and blessed at the very time when they were full of avarice and unrighteous power.

It's like looking at <spins the wheel of pop culture dystopia> the Capital of Panem from "The Hunger Games" and deciding that since it's full of extravagant fashion, beautiful architecture, and sumptuous foods and everyone is partying constantly, that this is a fundamentally good and happy society. But they aren't. They are prisoners of their own oppressive system and their need to maintain it to keep the status quo preserved, they are slaves to their greed and chronic consumption, and all the selfish and excessive pleasures, all glitz and the glamor, cannot cover up the massive collective void in their society's hearts. The Capital and everyone in it is DEEPLY unhappy and is simply covering it up with more and more surface level comforts and hedonism, trying to "consume away" the pain at the expense of others they have oppressed and effectively enslaved, while their leaders are no happier, unable to enjoy the fruits of their decades of labor establishing their nation, as they know how fragile the house of cards really is, and all fear the backstabbing schemes of others in the leadership structure, with none more feared and fearful than the "King" at the very top, which ends up resulting in the destruction of everything he and those before him have built, and his own personal death as well.

THAT is Atlantis. Atlantis is exactly as real as Panem's Capital. And Atlantis is the same kind of story: a corrupt and wicked dystopia, a once shining society brought low by the worst aspects of human nature, and utterly deserving the destruction wrought upon it.

If Plato were here today, he'd probably say something like "Seek not Atlantis, for you will find nothing — nothing but a tale of man's own inclination towards self-ruin."

#atlantis #dystopia #plato #the hunger games #allegory #critias #allegory of atlantis

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occvltswim · 2 years

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Allegory of America, Gottfried-Berhard Goetz, 1750.

#allegory #america #indigenous #moors #moorish #american indians #indigenous people #pre columbian #atlantis #amaru #meru #turtle island #great mother #goddess #allegorical #art #1700s #18th century #🐊

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noctilionoidea · 2 years

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I was hate watching a god forsaken Atlantis documentary with my family and had to doodle Aphrodite to calm down, so here’s a little digital doodle of her!

Its simplistic because it was stress relief. and no, I didn’t forget the cockle shells. i just didn’t want to draw them while chilling after a cluster fuck because FUCKIN ATLANTIS ISN’T REAL

#Aphrodite #digital art #greek mythology #Venus #greek goddess #Greek gods #art #doodles #greek myths #I hate Atlantis hunters #It’s not real #plato says it’s not real #It’s an allegory you nitwit #ramblings #Anyways I love drawing aphrodite #She’s just fun

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what-even-is-thiss · 1 year

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Plato makes up Atlantis as an allegory and over 2,000 years later people are still looking for it. You might as well be looking for Narnia.

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im-not-buying-it-ether · 5 months

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Okay but in the tellings where people write Diana as somehow Zeus’s daughter by literal genetics or weird god creation magic does that make the Atlantean royal families, Aquaman included obvi, like her distant cousins a million generations down the line?

#the first kings of Atlantis were Poseidons kids #it was part of the whole allegory thing that they were of divine blood thanks to papa Poseidon #and that the divinity got diminished as the bloodline went on and they got more human and humanly greedy #I only say this bc I like the image of Diana being able to squish Arthur in a hug #and call him ‘BABY COUSIN’#even if there’s like no real reason to call him that bc the relation is so thin at that point #she just does it #just to screw with him a lil #and have at least one male relative on the only familial side she can have male relatives on that isn’t an ass #wonder woman #aquaman #arthur curry #diana prince #diana of themyscira #Greek myth #Atlantis

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blueheartbooks · 7 months

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"Utopia Unveiled: Navigating Sir Francis Bacon's 'The New Atlantis' – A Prophetic Odyssey into Tomorrow's Science and Society"

Sir Francis Bacon's "The New Atlantis" is a thought-provoking utopian work that takes readers on a captivating journey to the mythical island of Bensalem. With a unique blend of scientific foresight, philosophical depth, and literary finesse, Bacon weaves a narrative that is as intellectually stimulating as it is imaginatively rich.

At the heart of this utopian tale is the House of Salomon, a scientific institution dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge and enlightenment. Bacon introduces readers to a society where science, reason, and progress reign supreme, creating a utopia that stands as a beacon of hope for a world in need of intellectual and moral rejuvenation.

One of the most striking aspects of "The New Atlantis" is Bacon's prophetic vision of scientific advancement. Published in 1627, Bacon's work predates the scientific revolution, yet it anticipates many of the technological marvels and scientific breakthroughs that would follow. His portrayal of Bensalem as a society embracing empirical inquiry and technological innovation is eerily prescient.

Bacon's narrative style is both engaging and instructive. The use of first-person narration adds a personal touch to the exploration of Bensalem, allowing readers to connect with the characters and their experiences. The vivid descriptions of the island, its inhabitants, and their way of life create a tapestry of utopian ideals that captivates the imagination.

"The New Atlantis" is not merely a work of fiction; it is a philosophical exploration of the relationship between knowledge, power, and societal progress. Bacon challenges readers to contemplate the ethical implications of scientific advancement and the responsibilities that come with wielding such knowledge.

While the narrative unfolds seamlessly, Bacon embeds profound philosophical reflections on topics ranging from the role of science in society to the moral responsibilities of the intellectual elite. His insights remain relevant, inviting readers to ponder the ethical dilemmas posed by the unbridled pursuit of knowledge.

In conclusion, "The New Atlantis" stands as a literary gem that transcends its time, offering readers a timeless exploration of utopian ideals and the complexities of scientific progress. Bacon's visionary work challenges us to reflect on the moral and ethical dimensions of our pursuit of knowledge, making it a must-read for anyone intrigued by the intersection of science, philosophy, and human nature.

Sir Francis Bacon's "The New Atlantis" is available in Amazon in paperback 10.99$ and hardcover 17.99$ editions.

Number of pages: 75

Language: English

Rating: 9/10

Link of the book!

Review By: King's Cat

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blueheartbookclub · 7 months

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"Utopia Unveiled: Navigating Sir Francis Bacon's 'The New Atlantis' – A Prophetic Odyssey into Tomorrow's Science and Society"

Sir Francis Bacon's "The New Atlantis" is available in Amazon in paperback 10.99$ and hardcover 17.99$ editions.

Number of pages: 75

Language: English

Rating: 9/10

Link of the book!

Review By: King's Cat

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theconstitutionisgayculture · 6 months

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Superheroes question

People say that Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark should use their money better.

But why no one asked the spacefaring aliens or the other advanced civilizations such as Wakanda and Atlantis to help humanity?

I mean for Batman he need to stop joker from blowing up a kid hospital every Tuesday and Tony basically the avengers and shield sugar daddy 80% of the time.

Thoughts?

You're right. People are very quick to blame certain characters for not being "better", but make constant excuses for others. And people who make this kind of commentary don't understand the characters they're talking about, real world economics, or basic storytelling.

It's been talked to death before, but Bruce Wayne absolutely uses his money to fund multiple charities and provides jobs for disenfranchised Gothamites, including criminals he's stopped as Batman. Tony Stark I don't follow as much, but even just in the MCU he basically bankroles the Avengers and created a clean, renewable energy source with the intention of sharing it with the world. But nobody wants to hear that, because it's "not enough". Because to them, all rich people should have all their wealth confiscated and then put directly into their bank accounts used to fix everyone's problems.

And this is where the economic illiteracy comes from, because that's just impossible. Even if the governments of the world would use that money purely for good instead of just embezzling it or using it for their own gain, all that would accomplish is temporarily alleviating a few societal ills. One that money is gone, there's no more money to confiscate from the super rich, because most of the money that rich people have is tied up in their businesses and investments. Once that money goes, so do those businesses (and the jobs they provide) and whatever industries or initiatives were being propped up by those investments. It's a childish power fantasy that if the right people were punished then all the problems of the world would just disappear. Which is ironic, considering point number three.

These people have zero idea how fictional stories work. Especially serial fiction. Stories need drama. Stories need conflict. Stories need characters who react to events in character to drive the plot along. If Bruce Wayne used his money to end all crime and poverty in Gotham, then there would be no more Batman stories to tell. Batman can't exist without Gotham being what it is. Because Batman isn't a 500k slowburn coffee shop slice of life story. It's a superhero story. Specifically, it's a superhero story about a traumatized boy who vowed to clean up the massively corrupt, crime ridden city that killed his parents. He knows his mission is futile. He knows he'll never succeed. But he still tries. He struggles against impossible odds that he will never beat, and we root for him and we keep reading about his struggles because it inspires us to face our own impossible problems. Or at least gives us an escapist fantasy where we can live vicariously through someone who can take on the impossible and triumph. Because even though his overall mission is impossible, he still racks up wins along the way. He saves lives that wouldn't otherwise be saved. He stops evil criminals and corrupt politicians and bad cops. He forms a family from people just as broken as he is. He struggles to live up to his own moral code and to balance his life's work with his interpersonal relationships. That's what makes Bruce Wayne interesting to read about. Having him write a check and cure all the worlds problems isn't just boring or unrealistic, it's lazy. No one can relate to that because there's no allegory to anything we experience in our own lives. It's an unearned victory. And in storytelling, unearned victories are flat and unsatisfying.

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blackvelvetwitch · 1 month

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Plato described Atlantis in his dialogues as a powerful and advanced civilization that vanished beneath the waves in a single day and night. While some researchers propose that Atlantis may have been a fictional allegory, others believe it could be a real place. This belief has sparked numerous expeditions and searches, yet no concrete evidence has been found.

#unsolved #unsolved mystery #unsolved mysteries #atlantis #mermaids #merfolk #unsolved mystery facts #facts #trivia

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kebriones · 9 months

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the whole Plato cave thing is so stupid cause wouldn't they realize their hands cast hand shaped shadows? And where did they come from anyway? Were they born in that cave? Who chained them up? Plato I need answers

I am channeling the spirit of plato screaming from beyond the grave

"IT'S AN ALLEGORY. LIKE ATLANTIS. AN ALLEGORY. AN ALLEGORY ABOUT HOW EVEYRONE IS STUPID AND DELUDED. WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE"

#plato your worldbuilding needs work how about you join some seminar or something

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academic-thoughts · 1 month

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Atlantis and It's Evolution

J.R.R. Tolkien feigned to uncover lost documents when he wove various ancient myths into the lore of Middle Earth. This is a technique originated by Plato in constructing Atlantis. Plato claimed he found a source in Egyptian recounting the stories of Atlantis. His “translation” into Greek is the justification for several phonetically Greek names.

Although Atlantis was not the most significant element in Plato’s dialogues, it has inspired the imagination of successive generations and become a cornerstone of fantastical storytelling. Nor was it the only fantasy tale in Antiquity, as Lucian of Samosata wrote A True Story in the Second century A.D. to mock the genre of fantasy as a travelog. Tales beyond the edge of the map of the known world were quite popular in Antiquity. Of them all though, Atlantis is the only one still widely known by almost everyone in the World and certainly by every adult in the Western World.

In 360 B.C., Plato penned the story of ancient Athens defeating Atlantis. Plato was discoursing upon the ideal civil state in two dialogues, Critias and Timaeus, written as sequels to The Republic. In his dialogues, he discusses two different states. One is the wealthy and luxuriously decadent world power of Atlantis, while the other is the almost spartan ancient Athens. Plato’s ideal Republic is a system in which men and women are both educated and equal, but only within their state-assigned class, and only the warrior class rules. Personally, I believe that this system is remarkably similar to Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World.

These two Platonic dialogues both reference Timaeus’ ancestor, Solon as the wisest of the seven sages and lawgiver of Athens who visited Egypt, where he heard the tale from several Egyptians. Salon told Dropides who told his great-grandson Timaeus, from which Plato found the tale. It is a tale of a great island, just past the Pillars of Heracles (the modern-day Strait of Gibraltar) in the Atlantic Ocean. The Kings of Atlantis descended from Poseidon and Cleito. Atlantis was the source of the metal Oreichalkos, which is only a bit less valuable than gold. Although Plato places Atlantis 9,000 years into his past, he inserts Athens into the tale as an ally until Atlantis becomes corrupt and imperialistic in its decadence. Morally superior Athens defeats Atlantis in war, freeing the entire conquered world. Then Atlantis is sunk beneath the waves with earthquakes and tsunamis as divine retribution for their corruption.

The dialogues are an allegory designed to caution the people of Athens from becoming too decadent or imperialistic. Plato warns against the decay of morality in favor of decadence, and imperialism, and he cautions against transgressing divine morality. This caution against doing folly may have been influenced by Plato’s experience of the Peloponnesian Wars and by the events and choices made by Athens leading up to the Wars. His cause was performed for the Panathenaea Games in honor of Athena and may be seen as state propaganda.

Plato’s claim to the historicity of Atlantis is belied by his dating of Athens as an ancient contemporary, making it over 9,000 years old in Plato’s time, older than ancient Egypt, and requiring a reminder of its past by Egyptians. This is about as realistic as Tolkien’s feign.

Still, people are inspired to look for a grain of true history within Plato’s account. Some point to the destruction of Knossos and the Minoans from the eruption of the Thera (modern Santorini) super-volcano in the 1,600s B.C. Others say the “sea people” accused of precipitating the Bronze Age Collapse around 1,200 B.C. may be the source of imperialism or refugees. Others note the Wars between the Greeks and Persians in which Athens defeated the much larger Persian navy and established itself as the region’s naval power may have been an inspiration.

Perhaps some of these accounts are accurate inspirations, but they do not suggest Atlantis existed. In the 1880s, Ignatius Donnelly authored Atlantis and the Antediluvian World. He argued that Atlantis was not a myth, but the birthplace of humanity’s first civilization prior to Noah and the home of the Nephilim and their giant offspring. He argued that ancient peoples of Europe and America worshiped the Atlantean kings who colonized Egypt, Mesoamerica, and Western Europe, from which we derive Aryans.

Within the context of the 1880s, the remains of the city of Troy, long believed to be a Homeric myth, had just been discovered. Other archeological sites were slowly being explored, including Knossos and Mykene. Most people still believed the Biblical flood as literal, with all cultures having an apocryphal flood story, Plato’s timeline placed Atlantis well before Noah.

Donnelly’s theories were adopted as state propaganda by the Nazis. The Nazis argued they are the living descendants of the true Aryans who survived the fall of Atlantis. They argue the Atlanteans were superhumans who fell not from divine judgment of their corruption but by intermixing with “lesser races”. Only by purifying Aryan blood, and removing corrupt lesser races, could the superhuman be restored to rightly rule the world.

In more modern times, people still search for Atlantis, saying Plato had some details of time or place wrong. Without any real evidence, people have placed Atlantis in the Canary Islands, the Guelb er Richat (Eye of the Sahara), Minoa, and Bulgaria or the Black Sea, amongst other possibilities. They repeatedly source Egar Cayce, a supposed psychic. He supposedly had thousands of genuine readings. He claimed the Atlanteans had been reincarnated as the American people from the United States.

“Be it true that there is the fact of reincarnation, and that souls that once occupied such an environ [i.e. Atlantis] are entering the earth's sphere and inhabiting individuals in the present, is it any wonder that—if they made such alterations in the affairs of the earth in their day, as to bring destruction upon themselves—if they are entering now, they might make many changes in the affairs of peoples and individuals in the present?" (pg 50 Edgar Cayce on Atlantis by Edgar Evans)

"In Yucatan there is the EMBLEM of same. Let’s clarify this, for it may the more easily be found. For they will be brought to this America, these United States. A portion is to be carried, as we find, to the Pennsylvania State Museum. A portion is to be carried to the Washington preservations of such findings; or to Chicago." (page 89 Edgar Cayce on Atlantis by Edgar Evans)

In the Discovery series Hunting Atlantis, author Stel Pavlou and volcanologist Jess Phoenix, who has a Bachelor’s in history and a Master’s in geology, say Atlantis existed in 4,900 B.C. They say Plato “based his timeline on ancient Egyptian Kings’ Lists” for his date of the 9,000s B.C. and it was in Bulgaria on the Black Sea. However, Plato did not have access to these King Lists and any version accessible today is known to have been altered.

In the National Geographic series Drain the Oceans, the show slowly showcases four underwater environments. All except the third are merely natural environments that are played up for drama, admits the series. However, the third environment, an ancient town named Pavlopetri, is a genuine Bronze Age town that had sunk below the sea due to the rise in sea levels and other natural disasters. It seems as if the idea of Atlantis was used simply to garner views instead of something genuinely investigated.

Most people are content to enjoy Atlantis as little more than an interesting setting for adventure stories. J.R.R. Tolkien had Numenor as a fictional island setting in the first two ages of Middle Earth. It was the first great kingdom of men, but it was corrupted by the fallen angel Sauron into attacking Valinor, the undying land of the elves and angels. As punishment, the Creator destroyed Numenor by an Earthquake and tsunami in the second age of Middle Earth, a few thousand years before the Lord of the Rings where Sauron was finally defeated. This is Tolkien’s Atlantis.

Disney adapted the idea in Atlantis: The Lost World and the sequel, Atlantis: Milo’s Return. Disney’s original movies have Atlantis still existing in a giant cave under the ocean with its air pocket, and the Atlanteans being trapped primitives aware of the outside world. Disney’s sequel took inspiration from Donnally’s book. The characters leave Atlantis to travel to the surface world for further adventures in Norway and Mexico and in other nondescript places before returning to Atlantis and then bringing it back to the surface.

The video game Assassin’s Creed Odyssey has downloadable content titled Atlantis DLC, allowing for a story with some time exploring Atlantis, almost as a set-aside. The first two chapters are set within the Underworld. The content involving Atlantis only begins in the third chapter. Atlantis was merely set dressing for the story. While the setting is as Plato described, the characterization is less true to Plato. The in-game Poseidon admits to routinely sending great deluges when the Atlanteans prove themselves to not be worthy of mercy.

Others believe that Atlantis was a historical civilization that existed 11,000 years ago. It’s simply that such knowledge has either been purposefully hidden or lost.

In Secret Origins, the author relays his ideas of how Atlantis actually existed and how such knowledge might have been kept secret. He “quotes” Plato, Edgar Cayce, Ishmael Perez, Helena Blavatsky, and Matthias De Stefano, all without citation. The author merely expects his viewers to believe his claims. It was certainly an interesting and educational set of videos.

Atlantis seems to have become a lost city-state starting around the late 19th until today with figures such as Ignatius Donally and Edgar Cayce. Up until then, the city was considered nothing more than a fable and parable created by Plato to flatter Athens and warn of the folly of men.

Acknowledgments:

Louis D’Angelo

He played Assassin’s Creed Odyssey's Atlantis DLC

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